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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey`s Childhood Friend Comes Forward; Jury Deliberates in Second Phil Spector Trial
Aired April 01, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a key witness grilled in the Casey Anthony case. Childhood friend Kiomarie Cruz claims she and Casey buried pets the same way little Caylee was buried near the very site where Caylee`s remains were found. Today, crews face tough questions from Jose Baez. Could this childhood buddy turn out to be a star witness?
Meantime, does Baez have a secret defense theory that could explain why Casey failed to report her own daughter`s disappearance for a month?
Then, astonishing news in the search for Haleigh Cummings as her mom suffers a second seizure. The sheriff admits investigators have lost focus. Could the feud between parents Ron and Crystal be sending cops off on false leads?
And Crystal`s lawyers spoke with mystery man Greg, who some claim was with Misty when Haleigh vanished.
KIM PICAZIO, LAWYER FOR CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD: I asked him as many questions as I could.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll talk to that attorney tonight to see what Greg told her.
Also, jurors back in court to decide the fate of Phil Spector, the music mogul prosecutors call a maniac. Could he get off again in the 2003 murder of stunning actress Lana Clarkson?
Plus, the Octomom finally gets a dose of reality. As in her own reality show. "InTouch Weekly" reports that Nadya Suleman is closing a reality TV show deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to start a reality show, when your kids are all, like, grown up?
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLET MOM: No, no. I think that`s exploitation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So much for that. I`ll analyze the strange new twist.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have got big breaking news tonight in the search for little Haleigh Cummings. Stunning revelations about a mystery man named Greg who some claim was with Misty Croslin the very night little Haleigh disappeared. We are still sorting out all this new information as it comes in, as we speak. But we will have the shocking details for you in just a minute.
First, more blows to Casey Anthony`s defense. Lead attorney Jose Baez gets bad news. The judge says, "No way, Jose," to Baez`s request for a private hearing with the prosecutors left outside to discuss critical, sensitive defense matters. Is Baez trying to keep a secret defense strategy under wraps so he can spring it at trial?
He claims he has a secret explanation as to why Casey waited a month, an entire month, before calling cops when her daughter vanished. Here is Casey`s explanation in the police interrogation tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF MURDERING DAUGHTER: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn`t, and I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved -- or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing. Just the fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt... of not seeing my daughter again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you buy her story? Has the defense now come up with a new explanation they don`t want prosecutors to know about?
Today was also deposition day for Kiomarie Cruz, Casey`s childhood friend turned star prosecution witness. She revealed chilling details to the "National Enquirer" about how she and Casey used to bury their dead pets in the very same spot where little Caylee`s remains were found. She says the burial rituals were shockingly similar to how Caylee`s remains were wrapped.
I want to hear what you think about all of this. Give me a call: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
But first, my fantastic expert panel: Judy Kuriansky, Dr. Judy, noted clinical psychologist; Joanna Greenwall, criminal defense attorney; Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator; and joining us by phone, Rozzie Franco, reporter from WFLA 540 AM.
Rozzie, what is the very latest?
ROZZIE FRANCO, REPORTER, WFLA: We learned two new pieces of evidence or information, rather, today in the Casey Anthony murder case.
No. 1, Kiomarie Cruz, Casey`s childhood friend, who told the "National Enquirer" the wooded area near Anthony`s home, where Caylee`s body was found, is the same area where she and Casey spent a lot of time. She said they actually buried their dead pets there.
This possibly could have been what sources are saying led the Anthonys` private investigators to that site where her remains were actually found. And there will be another big day for Casey Anthony`s defense tomorrow. Casey`s attorney, Jose Baez is expected to question more than three Orange County corrections officers tomorrow, along with Anthony`s former private investigator, Jim Hoover.
And we also learned Orange County Judge Stan Strickland denied Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, a private hearing without the public or prosecutors there. Baez had sought an ex parte hearing before Strickland, saying he wanted to meet to discuss, quote, "sensitive matters," which are critical to the defense to be addressed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rozzie, excellent summary. Thank you for that.
Drew Findling, the speculation is that somehow Jose Baez wants to keep under wraps defense strategy, defense evidence. Can he do that? What are Florida`s discovery laws like when it comes to defense issues?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what`s happening here is he wanted to meet what`s called ex parte. That is, just alone with the judge and not share with the other side. There was no way the judge was going to grant that.
Jane, let me explain when that happens. When somebody is representing somebody that`s too poor, for example, to hire an expert witness or a psychologist or an investigator, then the U.S. Supreme Court says you have the right to privately go talk to the judge because, if you had money, you wouldn`t have to tell the prosecution that you wanted to hire one of these experts.
But for just sharing what your defense is, that`s just not going to fly. If he wants to come public with it, then come public with it. Gee willikers, the prosecution comes public with everything they have. So he might as well start doing it, because all of the country and, more importantly, your potential jurors think he`s going along with Casey`s pathetic defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Joanna Greenwall, is he required to do so? If he has, let`s say, some tidbit, some nugget of evidence that would allow him to come up with an alternate explanation as to why Casey Anthony waited a month before saying her daughter was missing, could he hold that back and then spring it on the jury and the world at trial?
JOANNA GREENWALL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it depends. When I say it depends, I mean that, for example, in New York it`s called the reciprocal discovery rule, where as you get information, both district attorney`s office, the USA, they turn that over, you turn that over. And so he would have a duty.
So this whole thing, this -- this is just for him to get attention. Because he knows well and good that anything he might uncover or anything he brings out that he wants to -- justification defenses, self-defense as an example, which isn`t in this case, he has to turn over. There is discovery timelines that he has to do this.
So he knows better. So I have no idea why he`s talking about it. It`s unimpressive to me, except he pollutes the jury pool, which I think is what his end result of what he`s trying to do is. Because remember, he`s always been placing (ph) a change of venue. He wants to get out of there, because how is she going to get a fair trial?
So I don`t believe any of this. I think this is calculated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. Well, let`s talk about today`s big deposition. Kiomarie Cruz, Casey`s childhood friend, was grilled by Jose Baez today. She sold her story, reportedly, to the "National Enquirer" back in February. Key details about how she and Casey buried pets in the same way and in the very same place that Caylee`s remains were found.
Quote, "We put the hamster in a plastic Ziploc bag and put that inside a paper bag. On the paper bag, we drew five or six hearts as signs of love." She on to say, "It`s just too much coincidence. The place, the hearts, the bag. It all adds up."
Dr. Judy, the parallels are striking to how she says they buried pets and how Caylee`s remains were found. The child`s skull wrapped in a hamper and a plastic bag, double wrapped, and over the mouth duct tape with the outline of a heart sticker, an actual heart sticker discovered nearby. What do you make of it?
JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I make of it, Jane, that that is what is called a rehearsal. And it is strikingly, as you said, absolutely similar. And it`s going through the exact motions.
And actually, it`s a little frightening to me, because we know that the kids who -- in this case it wasn`t a negative thing. We don`t know how the hamster was killed or how it died. But kids who get overly involved in death with animals or even who are abusive to animals end up carrying that over at times to real human beings, and that`s what worries me.
GREENWALL: That`s completely irrelevant.
FINDLING: Who is saying it`s irrelevant?
KURIANSKY: I don`t think it`s irrelevant at all. It`s highly relevant.
FINDLING: Jane, I would -- I would not...
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: Oh, oh, but it`s so true. That is...
GREENWALL: It is not true.
KURIANSKY: It is true.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joanna, you think -- it`s a coincidence that both were double wrapped and both had heart stickers connected to it?
FINDLING: First of all, that`s assuming -- first of all...
KURIANSKY: ... can not make you a murderer. But there are cases where, in fact, that does happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joanna, say your thing.
GREENWALL: Just because you say that, "Hey, I brushed my hair that way and then on the next day I brushed my hair the same way," that doesn`t necessarily mean that that`s the direct link. She did something as a child. Therefore that made her the person that murdered...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the same place, Joanna? The same location? Which apparently as kids they called "the zone"?
GREENWALL: You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That is not enough.
FINDLING: Well, first of all -- Jane -- Jane...
GREENWALL: Drew, Drew, listen...
KURIANSKY: That is very damning.
FINDLING: Let me just say this. I don`t think...
GREENWALL: It`s irrelevant.
FINDLING: I don`t think that this is a rehearsal. I think this is the state of Florida versus Casey Anthony stimulus package. OK? What happens is somebody...
GREENWALL: Huh?
FINDLING: Somebody doesn`t go to law enforcement, but they have the opportunity to make what`s been reported today by this network, that`s $20,000. And we`re going to believe this woman when information is disseminated about where the child is and how she`s found? And all of a sudden, without going to law enforcement, without going to prosecutors, she goes straight to the "National Enquirer"?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know that she didn`t go to law enforcement. She did talk to law enforcement back in July about a whole bunch of things.
FINDLING: But not this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was the first one to tell them look in this area to find the remains.
FINDLING: But not this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the area we all hung out at.
FINDLING: Great, great, but not this. And she sold it for $20,000. If I was Baez, I`d be praying every night they put her on the stand. Because the state of Florida is pretty desperate if they have to resort to putting her up on the stand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, guys. So much more to get to. Do you think Baez has a secret weapon he`s saving for trial? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297 and let me know.
Then, a jaw-dropping twist in the search for Haleigh Cummings. A local sheriff says investigators have lost focus. You will not believe the reason. And stunning new information on a possible mystery man.
But first, Caylee was missing for a month before Casey reported it. Here`s George Anthony describing the last time he saw the two together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY: That`s the last time -- that`s the last time that I saw my daughter and granddaughter together. My granddaughter had a backpack on. My daughter had some stuff. Her backpack was stuffed for work. She was dressed, I believe, in work attire. And she says, you know, "I`m on my way to work. Caylee`s going to sitter Zanny`s house. I`ll be working late, so we`ll be staying over tonight. We`ll see you guys tomorrow."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, Caylee may not be in very good shape. Do you understand what I`m saying? She may not be the way we -- or the way your family last remembers her. We need to find out from you where Caylee is. This right now is just -- this has gone so far downhill and this had become such a mess. We need to end it. It`s very simple. We just need to end it.
CASEY ANTHONY: I agree with you. I have no clue where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.
CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew in any sense of where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony confidently and defiantly denying she knows anything about what happened to Caylee. I am back with the experts and your calls.
Lydia, California, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi, thank you for taking my call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks for calling.
CALLER: I want to know if anyone knows where Casey was going for the two years she was pretending to have a job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question. Rozzie Franco, have you ever gotten to the bottom of that?
FRANCO: Well, we`ve tried to obviously peel the layers away from the onion on this question. And obviously, we learned that she`s been at friends` houses. And when she`s been home, she said she was at friends` houses. And when she was at friends` houses, she said she was home. So we don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was with a boyfriend a lot of time. And then she would also lie to those boyfriends and her friends and say, "Oh, yes, the child is with Zanny the nanny." And nobody ever met Zanny the nanny. So...
Kiomarie sold the story of hers to the "Enquirer" for a reported $20,000. Now, we`ve been discussing this. Does that mean her testimony is tarnished? If you go by O.J. Simpson`s standards, it could be. Remember Jose Comacho? He dished that O.J. bought a knife at the store where he worked just weeks before the murders. He netted 12,500 bucks and tainted himself in the process.
Jill Shively told "Hard Copy" she saw O.J. driving near the murder scene around the time of the crime. Crucial testimony, but she was dropped from the witness list because she spoke to a tabloid.
And get this. When the show "Inside Edition" interviewed the ex-wife of Kato Kaelin, they polluted a potential witness for the defense. She was reportedly ready to contradict Kato about O.J.`s state of mind.
Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator, has Kiomarie tainted herself?
STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Going to the "Enquirer" is certainly not going to help the prosecution`s case or her credibility in this matter. There should be something in place that prohibits this. It`s ludicrous then. It`s allowing information out there that just shouldn`t be released.
FINDLING: There is something in place, though, Jane. Here`s what`s in place. Prosecutors don`t call witnesses like this to the stand.
You know, in the U.S. attorney`s offices throughout this country, there is a greater system of checks and balances with supervisors and supervisors of supervisors. In most of those cases, someone like this would never get called. This is really indicative of kind of low-end prosecuting if they`re thinking of using this in a case clearly favoring the state of Florida.
This is really just pathetic, and the prosecutors need to be running as fast as they can away from this witness.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s really upsetting, because she had other stunning revelations. Kiomarie was told by her doctor not to have kids. And here`s what she told cops. "When Casey found out she was pregnant, I asked, `What are you going to do about it?` And she`s like, `Well, I really want to give it up for adoption.` I said, `If you`re going to give it up for adoption then you know, I`m strongly considering adopting the baby from you.` She said that`s a good idea. But then she called me back, saying that her mom pretty much has told her that, no, she needs to keep the baby."
Now, Dr. Judy, to me that speaks to motive.
KURIANSKY: I would say so, too. And all of it sounds relevant for her state of mind and the kind of person she is. And...
GREENWALL: Which part are you talking about, relevant to her state of mind?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. What`s relevant -- here`s what`s relevant. "I didn`t want the baby. I tried to give it up to my friend for adoption."
KURIANSKY: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t want the baby. That could be a motive for murder.
KURIANSKY: Exactly.
GREENWALL: Just because she had doubts because she found out that she was pregnant, that that made her the murderer?
And by the way, just to go backwards, the fact that you raised, when a woman is paid 20 grand for her story, it`s similar to when someone gets a plea agreement from the prosecution, and they have to say, did you get an agreement to testify here against somebody else? You`re tarnished in a juror`s mind.
So to go to the psyche of a juror, the fact that they`re using this person, I agree that this is desperate. This is called desperation, because at this point, all they have is that they have a dead child, unfortunately, which is horrific for any family to have go through, and they don`t know who did it.
KURIANSKY: They also have a dead hamster.
GREENWALL: Oh, my God. It`s the hamster again. Leave the hamster alone.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s that they had the same burial sight.
GREENWALL: I`m an animal lover. Leave the hamster out of this.
KURIANSKY: No. I think it`s all relevant to her state of mind. On top of that, you asked before what is it? What could they possibly come up with?
But what did Jose Baez come up with to say why it took all this time for her to come out and say what`s happened? OK. A psychologist could go on and say, "You know what? It`s denial." When you`re in such shock, right, from war (ph) shock you end up repressing something. I`m saying...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you kidding me?
KURIANSKY: I`m not -- I`m not saying this, but I`m saying this is what somebody can end up using to explain this situation. They could say that, in fact, she was so traumatized...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: By what?
GREENWALL: By what?
KURIANSKY: By her child not being around that it blocked out of her mind.
GREENWALL: Oh, that is grasping for something that...
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: The defense witness...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy, watch out.
KURIANSKY: I`m telling you what the possibility is for...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I want to thank my excellent panel. We`ve got to switch to another kooky case.
Octomom, is she planning to do a reality show? That`s what news reports claim. Jurors back in court to decide the fate of Phil Spector. Did the infamous music mogul kill stunning actress Lana Clarkson? Here`s the prosecution`s take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUC DO, LOS ANGELES DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Lana did not know very much about Phil Spector. She knew very little. She did not know the real Phil Spector. She did not know that behind that...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the spotlight tonight, jurors back deliberating the fate of infamous pop music king Phil Spector, who prosecutors call a demonic maniac. Spector charged in the 2003 shooting death of beautiful actress Lana Clarkson.
Closing arguments at fever pitch last week as prosecutors and Spector`s defense faced off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DO: She did not know the real Phil Spector. A man who believed that all women are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and deserve a bullet in their heads.
DORON WEINBERG, PHIL SPECTOR`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Phillip Spector is charged with murder. But the proof here is that he acted erratically after a suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Clarkson died at Spector`s California castle -- that`s right; he lives in a castle -- from a gunshot wound through the mouth. That just hours after she met him at the House of Blues in West Hollywood.
Spector claims she shot herself because she was depressed. At a stranger`s house, you shoot yourself? Prosecutors say he shot her after a romantic encounter went awry.
Joining me, Lisa Bloom, anchor at the legal network, In Session.
Lisa, thanks so much for joining us.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, IN SESSION: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were there for closing arguments. This is such a crucial case for prosecutors, because they`ve had a really hard time convicting celebrities in California.
After Spector`s first trial ended in a hung jury, did prosecutors use a more aggressive approach this time around, to paint this guy as a maniac?
BLOOM: I don`t know if I would say more aggressive. It took the same amount of time, five months for this trial, five months for the first trial. I think the prosecutors have them this time. The jury is out deliberating. We don`t know for sure, but they really closed every door, I think, this time around.
They had five women, Jane, who came in and testified that Phil Spector, when he`s under the influence of alcohol, and they either went home with him or went to a hotel with him, pulled guns on them when they rebuffed his sexual advances. And the prosecutors argued very effectively in their closing arguments that he`s playing Russian roulette with women`s lives. The first five women got an empty chamber; Lana Clarkson got the bullet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s pulled guns on a lot of people. There`s been books written even before this case began about his tendency to pull guns on people and even shoot them into the ceiling.
Here`s more of the prosecution`s close. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DO: This case is about a man, a man who has had a pattern and a history of playing Russian roulette with the lives of women. Six women. And in this game of life and death, of lethal chance, by the grace of God, five other women got the empty chamber and lived to tell. Lana just happened to be the sixth woman who got the bullet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has Lana`s family been in court?
BLOOM: They have, Jane. Her mother and her half sister. Absolutely lovely people. Sitting there day in and day out, watching the testimony come in. This time around, and also they sat through the first trial. It`s going to be excruciatingly difficult for them, because Lana has been attacked in the courtroom by the defense over and over again for her lifestyle, for some e-mails she`d written about being depressed, the implication being that she was drunk, that she`d go home with anyone and that she was suicidal, as you say, that she would have taken her own life in the home of a stranger. They`ve sat through all of that with a lot of grace. I have to hand it to them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, what`s so shocking, upsetting to me, this guy has never spent a night in jail. This shooting happened in 2003.
Lisa, thank you so much.
BLOOM: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come back soon.
Cops in the Haleigh Cummings case say they have lost focus. Could the feud between Haleigh`s parents be to blame? And stunning -- and I mean stunning -- new information just coming in as we speak. We`re sorting through it in this Haleigh Cummings mystery. It`s up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Astonishing news in the search for Haleigh Cummings as her mom suffers a second seizure. The local sheriff admits investigators have lost focus. Could the feud between parents Ron and Crystal be sending cops off on false leads?
Plus, the octo-mom finally gets a dose of reality as in her own reality show. New reports that she`s closing a deal for her own series; was this her goal all along?
More on octo-mom`s newest adventures in just moments.
First, shocking new developments tonight in the desperate search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Who is this mystery man, Greg, who some claim may have been with Misty Croslin around the time of Haleigh`s disappearance? Well, we have done some digging and found some fascinating information on a man who may, and I repeat a big may, be the guy some are talking about.
Also, stress takes its toll again on Haleigh`s mom, Crystal Sheffield, as she suffers a second seizure, this just after being discharge from a hospital. Meantime, the Putnam County Sheriff says enough is enough in that bitter custody battle between Crystal and Haleigh`s father, Ron. Cops say it is not helping the search for little Haleigh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY, FL: Unfortunately, in the last few weeks it seems to -- we`ve kind of lost the focus of what our mission is here. It`s just been extremely difficult to try to narrow it and focus it down to where it needs to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is the parental fighting distracting authorities from finding Haleigh by sending them on false leads? Or are these freelance investigators coming up with stuff that could help the cops?
I`m joined again by Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; as well as Paul Callan, former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney; plus the attorney for Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, her name is Kim Picazio -- thank you for joining us tonight, Kim. And by phone, Jared Halpern, a reporter with WOKV AM 690 and 106.5 FM.
Jared, what is the very latest?
JARED HALPERN, WOKV AM 690 AND 106.5 FM REPORTER: Good evening, Jane. The very latest after talking to investigators this morning is that tips sadly enough seem to be down to single digits. This is an incredible drop- off from the early points of this investigation.
most of these tips we understand are also to be frank borderline absurd and those from callers wanting to share theories about the case instead of information. A lot of out-of-state psychics I`m told are starting to call.
So many in fact that police have sort of a psychic file of sorts. Unfortunately from a purely investigative standpoint, there`s frustration. A handful of local sheriff`s investigators continue obviously working very closely with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and FBI.
Then as you`ve been mentioning Jane, there`s a lot of rumors. It`s all filtering back to the sheriff`s office. They are getting the information. But so far they tell me that they haven`t had anyone confirm any of the allegations that have recently surfaced.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and we wish they would come out and talk about them so we could put the rumor mill to rest.
Now, everybody listen carefully to all of this. But I`m going to direct this question to Kim Picazio.
Ron Cummings` lawyers were the first to release the full name of somebody they claim they were told the authorities might be interested in contacting. They said, quote, "This office received information on March 25th, 2009 from an individual employed by a client of ours identifying Gregory Lewis Page as someone the police would be interested in contacting."
Now, here`s a question. Is that the same mystery Greg that investigators/bounty hunter Cobra claims was with Misty around the time little Haleigh disappeared? We do not know.
But we did some digging and we found a man by the same name who lives in the same area. And we learned that this Gregory Lewis Page has been arrested numerous times. Now, we have to emphasize that we do not know if this is the same Gregory Lewis Page Ron`s lawyers claim might be of interest to authorities.
But if this is the same guy mentioned in the press release, he has been in a lot of trouble with the law. He`s bookings she say, he was arrested for quote, "possession of drug paraphernalia, maintaining a drug dwelling, possession of ecstasy with intent to sell or deliver, failure to appear, possession of ecstasy, possession of cocaine, possession of cocaine with intent to sell or deliver within 1,000 feet of a school."
Ok. So this is clearly a long arrest record. I`m not talking about convictions. I`m just talking about arrests; 62 pages of court records show alleged violence against officers and a charge of grand theft.
Kim Picazio, my question to you is, is this the same Greg who you say you spoke to on the phone the other day? Is this the person you believe has a link to Misty or not?
KIM PICAZIO, LAWYER FOR CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD: This is the person. And I would like to say that we had known about this person weeks ago. And our investigators had been looking for him, tracking him down through friends. Apparently he did not want to speak with us.
I believe he did initially speak with the police. So the police had already been on top of it. But with a guy like this, I mean...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You spoke to him on the phone?
PICAZIO: Yes, I did. I spoke with him on the phone. And my investigators got him and I spoke with him on the phone and I had a very frank conversation with him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did he say he was with Misty that night? Because maybe this poor guy, whatever his past, maybe he has nothing to do with this and he is just dragged into this because of the rumor mill and because Cobra keeps talking about this mystery man, Greg.
PICAZIO: Well, I believe that Cobra talked about him because we have been looking for him because we have credible information he could have been with Misty.
And I had a very short conversation with him while I was here right before I went on the other day. And he continues to maintain he was not with Misty that night. I did tell him that he was going to be giving interview with Art (ph) here that`s going to be coming out...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does he know Misty? Is he a friend of Misty?
PICAZIO: He confirmed an intimate relationship with Misty yes...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh well, ok.
PICAZIO: ... and he confirmed many details about the household that we have been waiting to hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
PICAZIO: And we have subsequently given all of those details to police. And maybe he told them in the first place...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
PICAZIO: Maybe he didn`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let me just say this. We have no independent confirmation of anything that Kim just said. This is her investigation.
We would like to hear from this Greg. We invite him to come on and tell his side of the story. We don`t want to jump to any conclusions here.
And we also want to hear from Misty. We`ve been trying to reach out to Misty to find out what the story is and is there any connection? Does she even know this person? Do they really know each other?
But, you know, Jared, what are the authorities saying? Because obviously, this is stuff that has been discussed locally in that area. What are the cops saying about this?
HALPERN: There`s two big points I think here Jane. As for Greg, police are not naming him by name. So of course, we have no way of confirming if this particular gentleman was ever interviewed.
But as I mentioned, I spoke with a lieutenant in the Putnam County Sheriff`s office this morning and he said that every time any name is mentioned in a lead no matter where that lead comes from, that person identified is interviewed.
So far, everyone who they`ve asked to have interviews with has cooperated and gone forward with that question and answer, so police are stopping short of publicly saying who has and who has not been ruled out.
But a second point, and I think this is important, this isn`t the first time that we`ve gone through a muck-raking of sorts. A few weeks in of this investigation, you may remember a lot of attention focused on Misty Croslin`s cousin who lives in Tennessee.
You remember, claims were made that he had a shady past; may have had something to do with the girl`s disappearance. Police made contact with him in Knoxville, Tennessee and it was revealed he had nothing to do with the case. Again, that was police following up on a tip from family covering all of their base...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, exactly and your point is very well-taken. We`re not saying that this individual Greg is a suspect or a person of interest -- nothing like that. Nothing like that.
DREW FINDLING, ATLANTA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, let me say that oftentimes in cases like this, the problem is when somebody doesn`t have a criminal record and you don`t really know much about them.
Actually with regard to this Greg, he does have a long criminal record. And over the span of a decade, driving with suspended license, drug cases, confrontations with a police officer, there is no propensity...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
FINDLING: ... to commit sexual related crimes or anything regarding kidnapping children or sexual acts with a children -- or child. Anything like this, so actually his record as far as I am concern, is exculpatory recording this gentleman Greg.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Paul Callan, you also studied it as a former prosecutor and defense attorney. What did you make of his court documents?
PAUL CALLAN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, there`s a staggering number of arrests here. I mean, he`s been arrested numerous times for possession of ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana. He`s been charged with burglary, he`s been charged numerous traffic offenses, grand theft. I presumed it`s probably grand theft auto.
When I look at the record, Jane, as a prosecutor, what I see here is the record of a low-level drug user. And I would agree with Drew there`s nothing here over a ten-year period that indicates kidnapping, crimes of personal violence. It looks to be the record of a drug addict who gets charged with drug crimes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Paul, first of all, let me say something. And we have no knowledge that this individual is a drug addict. It`s very important to say that and again, we want to hear his side of the story. We`d love to talk to him.
A lot of the charges, I understand having scanned this -- but you`re the expert, you studied it, you`re a former prosecutor, were dropped.
CALLAN: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I find that fascinating because the same happened with Ron. Ron Cummings, there`s a lot of charges were dropped.
CALLAN: Yes, this is really quite astonishing. And I was talking to a couple of lawyers today in Florida about this. To see these many charges dropped -- and usually there`s a phrase Jane that says No-Law-Pros (ph), that means the prosecutor voluntarily dropped the charge and it happens repeatedly through this criminal record.
And despite all of his arrests, I only find one arrest where he served any time in jail. Every single other case is either dismissed or results in probation and a fine.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
CALLAN: So a very, very lenient treatment by the Florida courts with respect to whoever this individual is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s pretty fascinating.
FINDLING: Jane, I`d like to ask -- can I ask Kim a question?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
PICAZIO: Sure.
FINDLING: Kim, I remember specifically the large number of people on the sexual registry. And I think we`d all agree those of us who do this work that the sexual registry all over the country, the number...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re running out of time so jump in to the question.
FINDLING: They are inflated, the numbers are inflated.
Has your investigator looked into the number of people in the registry that are actually pedophiles?
PICAZIO: Yes.
FINDLING: Real pedophiles? And what are the numbers there and to what degree have they been looked into?
PICAZIO: They`ve been looked into thoroughly. We followed 257 leads as of today.
FINDLING: But what about the number of pedophiles in that area? Not boyfriends and girlfriends who had fights with one another a round up on the registry, pedophiles. How many pedophiles in the surrounding area have been looked into by your investigator?
PICAZIO: Over 30.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
FINDLING: Ok.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, obviously we`re going to discuss this story again tomorrow. Thank you to my fantastic panel.
An 8-year-old girl vanishes in broad daylight, in California this time. I`ll have an update on that desperate search.
Then, new reports claim octo-mom about to get her own reality show. Just what these kids don`t need, more cameras. Do you think octo-mom was planning this all along? Give me a call. 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
But first, here she is denying plans for a reality show back in February.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you think to start a reality show?
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS MOTHER: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re kids all have grown up?
SULEMAN: No. I think that`s exploitation of my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Octo-mom Nadya Suleman is about to get a dose of reality, as in reality show. I`ll have the details.
But first, "Top of the Block."
An adorable little California girl vanishes from a park just minutes from her home in broad daylight. Eight-year-old Sandra Cantu who left to play with friends Friday afternoon, she hasn`t been seen since.
Surveillance video shows her leaving her home and also in the park later that same day. She was last seen wearing a pink "Hello Kitty" T- shirt and black leggings. This beautiful child has long, light brown hair.
A full-on search started over the weekend with 230 volunteers, dogs, choppers and divers. Here`s what authorities said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. JEREMY WATNEY, TRACY POLICE DEPARTMENT: At this point, we are talking to everybody. And nobody has been ruled out. It`s a pretty broad investigation right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops have almost 500 leads, but no suspects. However, one man admits that he kissed her on the lips two years ago. This is a child. Cops have questioned him and searched his house.
Good idea.
Here on ISSUES, I`ll update you with the very latest on this frantic search.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
Tonight, yet another bizarre twist in the octo-mom saga: Nadya Suleman may have a reality show in the works. That`s right, Suleman reportedly expected to bring her seventh octuplet home at some point today.
Meantime, "In Touch Weekly" reporting that when the last of the eight infants arrives home, filming will begin on a reality show. The twist? The show isn`t only about raising 14 kids. It`s also about Nadya looking for love. Something stinks about this.
Nadya has said flat out on camera she would not do a reality show because it would be exploitation of her kids. Just what may have changed octo-mom`s mind? Hmm. Can you say ka-ching (ph)?
Insiders say Nadya had one condition -- don`t call her or the show "Octo-Mom." How about, let`s see, octo-mess? Is that off limits, too?
Give me a holler. Weigh in on all of this -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS; that`s 1-877-586-7297.
Joining me, my fantastic expert panel: back with me, Judy Kuriansky, noted clinical psychologist; Lisa Bloom, anchor for the legal network, "In Session;" and Kim Serafin, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly."
Kim, this is your story. So tell us what you know about this reality show that you`re reporting.
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes. Well, this week, "In Touch Weekly" does have a cover story on Nadya. We have a great picture of Nadya and her six kids that are home.
But yes, an insider does tell "In Touch" that a deal is in place for her to start being filmed for a reality show 24/7 once all eight kids are home -- so once the final two kids are home.
And as you mentioned, this source does tell "In Touch" that it would be about her trying to raise her kids, but also her looking for love at the same time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What channel? Who is doing it? Where do we get to watch it?
SERAFIN: All I can tell you is that, this is what this insider is telling us and again, that the filming would start, according to this source, when all kids are home.
But the -- I noticed that you wanted to highlight the part about the looking for love. You know, I`m not a reality show producer, but I do live here in Hollywood where everything when you pitch something to a TV show, it`s this meets this. This is probably "Jon and Kate Plus 8 Meets the Bachelor."
"The Bachelor" had a really good season this year so maybe that`s why they threw that in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the theme song could be "Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places," right?
SERAFIN: That`s right. There`s so many ways go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And "In Touch Weekly" saying an insider told them that as soon as the last octuplet gets home, cameras will start rolling 24/7 on a new reality show.
Recently, Nadya told TMZ something entirely different. Let`s listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you thinking of starting a reality show when...
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS` MOM: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when your kids are all grown up.
SULEMAN: No, I think that`s exploitation of my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Bloom, your mom, Gloria Allred, was involved with Angels in Waiting. Is this woman, Nadya Suleman, talking out of both sides of her mouth over and over again?
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": She is. I have a suggestion of what we should call her, Jane, the "Octo-bomb." She`s just a disaster day after day.
You know, she was right back in February. Of course it`s exploitation of her children.
I would like to see laws in place to protect children from being forced to do reality shows. I mean, they`re too young to consent. How would you like to be a 7-year-old on the playground and have other kids teasing you because of something you did on TV? How would you like to have your tantrums and your mistakes growing memorialized for everyone to see?
I think it`s a terrible thing. I think adults can do reality shows if they want to, but I don`t think you should bring children into it.
And you mentioned Angels in Waiting. They have said this needs to be a sterile, sanitary environment. You can`t have that with the cameras and the cords and the crew and the staff. It just can`t work. It`s a very unhealthful situation...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is the psychological toll, Dr. Judy, if these kids are exposed 24/7, 365 to cameras?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: The psychological toll is going to quadruple and octuplet and whatever it goes for 14 because not just the little children, those eight little ones, but the older kids are going to suffer on four fronts.
We have, first of all, that they`re all going to be competing; sibling rivalry will be explosive.
Second of all, with the other kids, as Lisa even said, when they go to school, they`ll either by taunted or they`ll be envied and neither of that is healthy.
Third of all, the mother is not going to be showing true love to their kids but all just for the cameras, which is not going which is not healthy for them.
And there`s a fourth place that it is going to be damaging and that is for the guy, the guys, let`s say, who are going to be competing for her love. Those kids are not going to have a healthy relationship with him either.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa, there is something called the Jackie Coogan act named after a child actor Jackie Coogan who made millions but was ripped off by his own adult family members.. It says really any child actor who works, that much money has to be put in a trust until they get to be adults. Do you think that applies in this case?
BLOOM: No and I remember when CBS did a show "Kid Nation." There were arguments that they were exploiting these children. They should be treated as child actors but no, kids in reality show are not treated like child actors. I don`t think the kids are going to get a dime out of this. I think this is all about Nadya wanting to be on camera, which is what she wanted all along.
That was her dispute with the nurses in Angels in Waiting. They say she was only cuddling and loving towards her children when there was a camera around. When the cameras left, she left and went shopping.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. You know, I think there should be an octo- mom act to prevent kids from being used in this way.
BLOOM: Hear, hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang on guys. More octo reality in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Octo-mom told Dr. Phil she was not looking for love.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL" SHOW: You told one of our producers that you have kind of chosen a life of celibacy at this point.
SULEMAN: I didn`t know you would bring that up, Dr. Phil.
MCGRAW: No, but in your theory that`s a good thing, right?
SULEMAN: Yes, that`s a good thing. It`s a choice. You know of all people I have no right to judge anyone else around me. Look at my life.
But, no, I`ve chosen that because you think it benefits the kids the most. I kind of live my life like a nun because I feel I am obligated to do that because of my choices. That`s just something I have to take on the responsibility for the consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Never mind. Now she`s reportedly looking for love on a reality show soon.
Cathy, Virginia, your question or thought, ma`am.
CATHY, VIRGINIA: Hi, Jane, how are you doing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m doing good.
CATHY: Yes, my comment is, as you know, I noticed that nobody saying nothing about the (INAUDIBLE) family. Nobody is saying nothing about Jon and Kate. She`s a single mom. And now she has to do what she has to do to put food on the table.
And the panel, I don`t understand why the panel is so against her. I mean she`s a single mother of 14. And I just think that she`s being judged too much. I`m a single mom. And we got do what we have to do even though she said...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Okay, thank you for your comments.
BLOOM: Jane, can I jump in? This is Lisa.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, jump in.
BLOOM: Yes, I think that`s an important point. Look, I`m a single mother, too and I`m not critical of large families. Large families are a wonderful thing.
The question is, do you have enough adults to supervise the kids? And can you financially support them? And I think most of us feel what`s wrong with octo-mom is she brought eight kids into a family where she already had six. No income. No job. No means of support.
And so now she`s in this terrible situation of her own creation. And yes, all she can do is a reality show which is also a terrible idea for the kids.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, but Lisa, I am sometimes a critic of extremely large families when we hear statistics that are literally tens of millions of orphans in the world where every five or six sickens -- a child starves of starvation or malnutrition.
Dr. Judy, she was reportedly imitating Angelina Jolie. Angelina Jolie had some kids but she also adopted some kids.
KURIANSKY: And she has lots of money to take care of them which is the case.
I really want to make a plea to all the young girls who are going to follow this story as they will for her reality show. And please do not copy Nadya Suleman. Do not think that this is the way to get stardom, for you to get a home, for you to get attention. For you to get your dream come true. That`s what I worry about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Kim Serafin, I know that you got cheated a little bit on the commentary but that`s because you dropped a bombshell with that big story of yours. So I guess you have only yourself to blame. Good reporting.
We tried to reach out to Nadya`s attorney for comment. No comment back.
Thanks. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. You`re watching ISSUES.
END
