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Nancy Grace
Casey`s Handwritten Note to Sheriff Revealed
Aired April 01, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. Tot mom sneaks a hand-written note to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, begging for a secret meeting. Tonight, we`ve got the letter. And in the last hours, tot mom`s defense grills tot mom`s longtime childhood friend, Kiomarie Cruz. Cruz says tot mom wanted desperately to put Caylee up for adoption, and that after knowing tot mom for years, she had never heard of any nanny named Zenaida Gonzalez. She describes the contentious relationship between grandmother Cindy and tot mom over the years and how tot mom would do anything to spite her mother. And Cruz also cracks the story as to why that specific location hand picked to discard Caylee`s body.
Tonight, a Florida judge shuts down a defense motion demanding a private closed-door hearing in chambers. And grandparents George and Cindy Anthony set to go under oath answering questions on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Can you ask for something to write with so that you can send a note to the sheriff himself, you know, attention Kevin Berry. Just listen to me for a second.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Yes, I`m listening.
GEORGE ANTHONY: And tell him that you want to speak to me, you know, or Lee or Mom, and you want it to be done today. He can do it. He can...
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, Dad how am I going get any...
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: Listen...
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I`m listening to you. How am I going to get anything to him? How can I...
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: Just ask someone from corrections to give you paper and pen, whatever it`s going to take, or pencil, just to write it. And put attention to him and just say, I need for this to be delivered to him now. They -- they will do that. Believe me. I`ve already discussed that with a lot of other people that they said if you request that, they can do it. Believe me.
GRACE: The defense is at it again in tot mom`s case. First they announce they want to put her best friend on the stand, Amy Huizenga, and now another friend, Kiomarie Cruz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A friend claims she considered adopting Anthony`s daughter, Caylee, at one point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Cruz told investigators back in July of this little wooded area along Suburban Drive where some of the kids from middle school used to hang out and bury their dead pets there, close to where little Caylee`s remains were found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kiomarie Cruz also worked at Universal at one point. Casey told her she was working at the mummy attraction at Universal, which Kio knew was not true.
JESSE GRUND, FORMER FIANCE: We can all tell that from the last couple years, Casey is a very effective liar. I think I`d use the word diabolical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re tired of the lies. No more lies. What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She also says that Casey Anthony would do anything to spite her mother.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I didn`t even care where Casey was at. I still don`t care where Casey`s at. All I want is Caylee back. Do you understand that?
CASEY ANTHONY: Stop it! This is why I chose -- this is one the main reasons that I chose Dad.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S SISTER: When I asked her, Why won`t you, you know, allow us to see Caylee, and she said, Well, maybe I`m a spiteful (DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an 8-year-old little girl disappears after leaving a play date with a little friend, Tracy, California. The first critical 72 hours have passed. Police announce seizing a fourth vehicle. And as we go to air tonight, we learn cops scouring a local dumpster. Why? Hundreds of tips pouring in as two men named persons of interest. Nearly 80 sex offenders in just a five-mile radius of the little girl`s home. Tonight, where is 8-year-old Sandra Cantu?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are up to 477 leads. That`s an increase of over a hundred since just yesterday. Every lead is being looked into and investigated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did the police tell you in the lobby this morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They questioned me about a bunch of things, just like you guys are doing here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They asked you if you had taken her to Mexico?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your answer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late-breaking developments now in California. The desperate search for a missing girl continues. Sandra Cantu has last been seen last week. We have learned investigators executed search warrants and have reinterviewed two people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know anything about the disappearance of Sandra?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We think maybe somebody had to have taken her because we just don`t think that she would walk off without letting any of us know where she was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking at absolutely everybody. There`s nobody that`s been eliminated as a person of interest in this particular investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I know is there`s an 8-year-old girl out there, who happens to be my daughter, who needs help. Please help!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tot mom sneaks a hand-written note to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, begging for a secret meeting. Tonight, we`ve got the letter. And in the last hours, tot mom`s defense grills tot mom`s longtime childhood friend, who cracks the story as to why that specific location hand picked to discard Caylee`s body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Casey Anthony`s lawyers get out of her childhood friend? Casey one time was considering giving up little Caylee for adoption. Ms. Cruz at the time said she would be willing to adopt Caylee. Things were in the works. But when Cindy Anthony found out, she went ballistic and put a stop to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The possible adoption of Caylee, as this story goes, does that set up motive? Casey never wanted her in the first place.
CASEY ANTHONY: I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of the other things that Kiomarie could possibly have said in this deposition today is that this area where Caylee`s remains were found -- this was a teenage and childhood hangout for these girls. This is a shaded area, so unless you were a kid or a teenager in the neighborhood, you wouldn`t know about it.
LEE ANTHONY: That`s when she opened up to me and said, Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother. And you know, maybe she`s right, maybe I am.
CASEY ANTHONY: Dad, I don`t care about all this other stuff. I mean, I don`t care about the media. I don`t care about what people have been saying about me. That doesn`t matter because I know it`s not true and everyone that knows me knows that it isn`t true. All I want is Caylee home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, standing by there at the Orlando jailhouse. Mark, what can you tell me about a handwritten note slipped to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, asking for a secret meeting?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Well, Nancy, George and Casey Anthony had a meeting on August 14th of last year, right after she was jailed. At the urging and at the behest of George -- he asked Casey to write a note to then Sheriff Kevin Berry asking for a private meeting between Casey, her father, her mother or brother, Lee. Dennis Moonsame (ph), who was deposed by this week by Jose Baez, passed that note along to Sheriff Kevin Berry.
As you know, Nancy, that meeting never took place. It was supposed to be a private meeting where everybody would get personal and hug everybody. But again, that meeting never took place. Also...
GRACE: OK, wait, wait, wait, wait! Stop right there.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GRACE: Why do you believe this meeting was to hug it out? What about the possibility this meeting was to get their stories straight and that they wanted to meet in private without surveillance or without any sheriffs there so no one could hear them? Ding-ding?
WILLIAMS: Nancy, after following this case since last July, nothing in this case ever surprises me, that they would try to get their stories straight.
GRACE: I`ve got the letter in my hand, and I want to go to our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. Ellie, explain to me what, if anything, had the sheriff done to lead tot mom to believe that he would break all the rules and engineer a secret meeting on behalf of tot mom?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, on August 14th, George and Cindy Anthony went to the jail and met with Casey Anthony. Apparently, George Anthony convinced Casey that he`d had a conversation, apparently with somebody in the sheriff`s office or in the jail, that said, you know, if she would write a note and ask the sheriff for this, it could be set up because he will do anything to help us. He`ll do anything to help you or to help Caylee. So that is why she wrote this note.
GRACE: Good to know. I want to go back out to Kathi Belich. She is a reporter with CNN affiliate WFTV. On top of this handwritten note slipped to a jailhouse sheriff, asking for this secret meeting, we learned that longtime childhood friend Kiomarie Cruz under oath on the hot seat today. Now, this is shooting themselves in the foot. But you know what? They asked for it and they got it. What do we know, Kathi Belich, about what Cruz may have said?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, first of all, she is the one who initially led investigators to the area near -- not the exact same area, but the area very close to where Caylee`s remains were found, telling investigators they used to go there as children, bury their pets there as children. So she felt that if anything happened to Caylee, if Casey was involved, that maybe that area was also involved. She also has information about the pregnancy and how Casey did not necessarily want Caylee.
GRACE: I want to go to psychologist Dr. Caryn Stark, joining us from New York. Caryn, it just bring to mind that so many killers commit the crime or dispose of the body at a place where they`re familiar. Think about fisherman Scott Peterson. Where does the murder take place? Most likely in the home. And where is the body disposed of? Where he goes fishing, San Francisco Bay. What about what Kiomarie Cruz is saying regarding tot mom`s hangout, where this body was disposed of?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it`s not like there`s much creativity that`s going on here, Nancy. And also, she really doesn`t know the difference between a pet and a child. That`s not the kind of mentality she has. She`s a criminal.
GRACE: Here is the deposition target, longtime friend Kiomarie Cruz. Take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Casey help you bury animals?
KIOMARIE CRUZ, FRIEND OF CASEY ANTHONY: We would dig things up and put it out there. And it was me, her and somebody else that we`d all go back there. It was just us girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she was familiar with...
CRUZ: She was familiar with the area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s where animals had been buried before. And it was a -- was it a peaceful place for you guys?
CRUZ: Yes. It was always quiet. There was nobody that would bother us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And the defense put her under oath today? That sound was from the Nationalenquirer.com, Casey Anthony`s longtime childhood friend, Kiomarie Cruz, talking about the wooded area where tot mom spent tons of time as a child burying pets, the same woods where police found little Caylee`s body.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your sister is being truthful?
LEE ANTHONY: To the best of her ability right now, I do. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.
GEORGE ANTHONY: You guys have no idea what we`re going through. You guys don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about my granddaughter.
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: You don`t care about (INAUDIBLE) Shut up! I`m talking. I am talking!
CINDY ANTHONY: George is very angry about a lot of stuff and he`s frustrated because he feels helpless because he can`t do anything to find his granddaughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about that. All you care about is (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Sweetheart...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! Do you understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!
CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys? A waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you hear tot mom on the phone with a friend.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Just then, when she says "what a waste," who is she talking to?
JOSTAD: Well, in that conversation, first she is talking to Cindy Anthony.
GRACE: Yes.
JOSTAD: She and Cindy get in fight. Cindy`s questioning her. She gets upset with Cindy. She says, Put Lee on the phone. Lee gets on the phone. Same thing. She gets angry at Lee. Eventually, this friend, Christina gets on the phone with her...
GRACE: OK. OK. So it was Christina. I was just wondering...
JOSTAD: Yes, exactly.
GRACE: ... if that were Kiomarie Cruz, as well. You know, somehow, this Kiomarie Cruz is up, up, up in everything, all the nuances of this case.
We are taking your calls live. Tonight, we learn about -- we actually get our mitts on a handwritten note from tot mom to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, asking him to orchestrate a secret rendezvous. Why would she believe he would help her?
Out to Frances in Kentucky. Hi, Frances.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had read, like, in "People" magazine and everything, but had never heard it on TV, about the knife, the stainless steel knife being found in the trash bag with Caylee`s remains.
GRACE: You know, back to Ellie, Ellie Jostad. The knife, was that in the bag or was that in the car?
JOSTAD: There was a knife found in the car. It was described as just like a table knife. And it was with some other items, clothing and other garbage that was in the car.
GRACE: OK. To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. He`s standing there -- by with Mark Williams at the jailhouse. What, if anything, is the repercussion with this sheriff that the Anthonys felt familiar enough with to write this note asking for him to break the rules and organize a rendezvous, a secret rendezvous without sheriffs there, without surveillance? What about him? Who is he?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Who is the sheriff?
GRACE: Yes.
PETRIMOULX: That`s Sheriff Kevin Berry. He`s been -- he was around for a while. He actually recently retired, but he was a longtime sheriff around here, has a lot of sway with the community. Whether he actually made this offer or not, George doesn`t specify. But we have heard from the Sheriff`s Department that they were willing to consider a possible meeting, but nothing concrete has ever come through with that.
Just recently, Brad Conway, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, said -- expressed as desire for the family to be able to meet without the cameras there. But it`s been something that the jail especially has been reluctant to do because, as you said earlier, that`s just not protocol.
GRACE: Take a listen to grandfather George Anthony urging the tot mom to write this handwritten letter asking the jail to break the rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: It can be at a location that is not going to be recorded. It`s going to be at a place that just you and I or you and Lee or just you and Mom can sit down and just talk. That`s what it`s about. It`s not going to be over a phone. It`s not going to be like we`re doing right now. It`s going to be face to face.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I understood the arrangements.
GEORGE ANTHONY: But I just want you to know it can be done without anyone else being there except just us, you know, just like you and me, you and Lee or you and Mom. It can be done, sweetie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I understand that.
GEORGE ANTHONY: And I`m -- I`m trusting the people who told me that because they want us to have that time, OK?
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, if it`s coming directly from the Sheriff`s Department, I don`t really trust anything that they`ve said, to be completely honest.
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, honestly, it didn`t come directly from them, but they`re the one that...
CASEY ANTHONY: Good. I figured it wouldn`t have. I know they`re trying to put together a visit for us, which I appreciate very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. He is being deposed in this case. Leonard, you were in the home.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct.
GRACE: Tell me -- you know, I don`t necessarily blame the grandparents for trying to meet with her to try to get some facts out of her, is what I imagine what they really wanted.
PADILLA: Exactly. At that the stage of the game, they were as interested in getting information as anybody else. George one night just lost it and went in there and almost got physical with her because he wanted to know what happened to his granddaughter. Where`s my granddaughter? He told his friend from Ohio, he told him one day, he says, The answer is in that room. They were desperate for information.
At that stage of the game, Cindy and George were just as anxious as the detectives to find out what had happened to their granddaughter and the whole thing. As far as George believing that he could get a private meeting with his daughter, that`s something in law enforcement which is called professional courtesy. It doesn`t matter what the charges are or anything.
GRACE: Ah, OK.
PADILLA: It can happen.
GRACE: All right, because he was a former law enforcement...
PADILLA: Correct.
GRACE: OK, that explains a lot. It`s not anything nefarious on the jailer`s part, just one former law enforcement doing the other a favor. It`s still bending the rules.
Out to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story from the very beginning. What more did Kiomarie Cruz tell "The Enquirer"?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Some of the other things she told "The Enquirer," Nancy, is that Casey Anthony changed after she had Caylee. She said she started dressing more provocatively. She started drinking more, smoking pot more, also possibly even doing ecstasy. She also talked about this pet cemetery that they had. And she also said that she wrote up a pros and cons list with Casey Anthony about having an abortion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trunk was open. The windows were rolled down to what I assume ventilate the horrible smell that I had just -- just smelled for the first time.
GEORGE ANTHONY: It was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hits you like a wave. Whatever it was, it was very potent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance, you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition?
GEORGE ANTHONY: It`s a possibility, yes. I mean, it`s a possibility. I mean, maybe my daughter ran over something.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not going to let her go as long as I have a breath in my body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In addition to finding out the tot mom sends a secret handwritten letter to a jailhouse sheriff, asking him to arrange a rendezvous, today longtime friend Kiomarie Cruz on the hot seat. The defense insisted on deposing her. She`ll probably end up being a state`s star witness.
Out to Michelle in Pennsylvania. Hi, Michelle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind a two-part question.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that -- I do. I think that -- do you think that Casey wanted Cindy to find Caylee at that particular place, since that was a hiding place when she was young? And do you think they may change their strategy and try to blame Cindy, since evidence came from the house and Zenaida Gonzalez is out of the picture?
GRACE: Oh. I hadn`t thought of that last one. Very quickly, back to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, I thought that this burial ground zone, as they called it, was kept secret from the parents. So I don`t believe this is a plant for Cindy to find her there.
JOSTAD: Right. Right. Kiomarie Cruz said that they hung out there in middle school and in high school, and that it was only kids, teenagers, that knew about it.
GRACE: We`ll be right back with president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation Marc Klaas, and we`ll unleash the lawyers. Taking your calls live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged on first-degree murder.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: She is not a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child.
ANTHONY: She loves that child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four counts of providing false information to law enforcement officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you purposely misled us. So then what?
ANTHONY: She`s leading you to a place but she`s not telling you to the right, exact location, to which apartment it is because she`s afraid if someone walks in that something may happen to Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators found evidence of chloroform and human decomposition in her mother`s trunk.
ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: As we go to air just hours ago on the hot seat, tot mom`s longtime friend, Kiomarie Cruz.
Now unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Alan Ripka, high-profile lawyer in New York.
Renee, question number one on cross for Kiomarie Cruz, didn`t you sell your story to "The Enquirer" for $20,000?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: For $20,000. And you know what, it makes the story sexier and more appealing if it`s got a little more whistle and a little more bells, Nancy. So that -- what does that do to her, discredit her.
GRACE: What about it, Ripka?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, just because you sell your story doesn`t mean it`s not true. There`s some important information that only she would know and if it`s corroborated by other people and other aspects of evidence, it`s still going to be a credible story.
GRACE: OK, Kiomarie Cruz just out of the hot seat within the last couple of hours, actually sold her story to "Enquirer" magazine. Making about $20,000, according to our sources. Can`t confirm that number.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Look, Marc, the states had bigger problems in the past. Remember practically every witness in the O.J. Simpson murder case had sold their story to somebody.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, no, absolutely, and it looks like this -- this woman is just another person that`s jumped on the Caylee gravy train and found a way to financially exploit her situation. It`s really very sad.
I`d like to comment, though, quickly on this whole idea of special consideration from the sheriff`s department. And it seems to me that special consideration should be offered for individuals who are cooperating with law enforcement in trying to solve the case.
And we know that Casey`s been doing anything but that since she became involved. She`s tried to misdirect in every way that she possibly can and as soon as her mother understood the implications of saying that there may have been a dead body in the trunk of her car, I believe that she`s been misdirecting as well.
So certainly the don`t deserve, in any sense -- in any sense of the word a special meeting away from the eyes of the camera or the deputies.
GRACE: You know, Marc, you and I have been there before. Let`s just put it out there what it really is. While this little girl`s body was decomposing, triple-bagged in a garbage bag like she`s trash out in the woods, tot mom was leading police on a wild goose chase that lasted for weeks.
You know, I would argue to the jury if I were the state what the stages of decomposition are as weeks pass. Day two, day five, day 12, day 25 while tot mom`s behind bars ordering up expensive bottled water and chocolates for herself, you know, that`s what was happening out at this burial ground.
That`s what the truth is according to prosecutors, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: That`s absolutely true and that`s why I think that they should really reconsider the death penalty in this case. And look at it -- take a very hard look at whether -- whether this woman deserves it. And if this woman was an old black man, would they be treating her with the same kind of kid gloves?
GRACE: I guess not.
Out to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective and hostage negotiator. You know, Vince, they`re going to come down on Kiomarie Cruz for selling her story. All right, fine. She shouldn`t have sold her story. But who do you think tot mom`s hanging out with? Nuns and priests and virgins?
You know what? Of course some of these witnesses are going to sell their story. They`re friends of tot mom`s.
VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA; HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Yes, you`re right. You know her information is -- is critical. If she`s telling them information from the beginning of where to go in the area, you got to look at that with some credibility. Is she going to be attacked at trial? I would say yes.
GRACE: Of course.
VELAZQUEZ: The defense is going to go after her and say, you know, your intention all along was to get paid and get a story but you`ve got to take this for what it is, piece by piece, and look at it and see how it fits. And I think the information is going to be good.
GRACE: Yes. You know back to the lawyers. Rockwell, Ripka, you`ve got to take your witnesses as you find them. I`ll never forget I had an armed robbery case. Happened around 4:00 a.m. behind a strip club. My victim was a stripper. Dressed up in a cheerleader outfit.
I told her wear her Sunday best and come in and be pure and prim and proper on the stand. The jury smelled that a mile away. That`s the last time I ever tried to put perfume on a pig. It will backfire on you.
I just go ahead put it out there upfront, Ripka, you know as I was giving my opening statement. And then shore it up by saying, but we can prove Kiomarie Cruz is telling the truth because she knows this inside information that nobody else would know. That`s the only way they can deal with Kiomarie Cruz.
RIPKA: That`s correct, Nancy. I mean jurors are very, very smart. And they`ll see right through when you try to put.
GRACE: Oh yes.
RIPKA: ... when you try to put up some farce. And at the end of the day, let them know what this woman is really about. Let them know she wanted to make money and let them judge her credibility on the details of the story.
GRACE: And on the other hand, Renee, you`ve got this woman -- I think Kiomarie Cruz has some children. You know what, she made some money. That`s not the worst thing in the world, all right? She hasn`t been impeached under oath. She doesn`t have a wrap sheet. This is not the worst thing that can happen to a state`s witness, Renee.
ROCKWELL: No, and as long as they think it`s the truth. But, Nancy, let me just point out one thing. Had a cop sold his story.
GRACE: Yes.
ROCKWELL: . he had been fired.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. We know that 3D renderings of the crime scene have been made. We know that in the last 48 hours digital -- we think photos or video of the duct tape around the tiny skull has been delivered to the defense.
What information do you get from 3D?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, the defense will try to use this to say that, for example, that the body might have been at a depth which could not be put at that level. So it`s going to be used to sort of counter or preemptively deal with the defense argument that maybe the body was intentionally put at a depth which the mother was not capable.
GRACE: Very quickly to Teresa in North Carolina. Hi, Teresa.
TERESA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy. Let me tell you, you and your twins are such a gift from heaven. Thank you for all that you do.
GRACE: Listen, I do not deserve that compliment. Thank you. Now the twins may deserve it because they really were a miracle. And in two days they`ll be coming up on 17 months.
TERESA: Oh my goodness.
GRACE: You know, praise the Lord. What`s your question, dear?
TERESA: All right, with all of this dishonesty that has really gone on since this case has begun, do you really feel that the jury will be able to come up with a not guilty verdict? Or will this just be another case like O.J. Simpson? And do you think also that Cindy Anthony will testify truthfully when she is called upon?
GRACE: Teresa, when you don`t know a horse, look at its track record. So when Cindy Anthony gets on the stand I believe she will hedge to protect her daughter. She loves her daughter.
As far as rendering a not guilty verdict, could they do it? I went down on planes on O.J. Simpson`s swearing, no way could that jury render a not guilty verdict. Well, they did.
To Dawn in Washington, hi, Dawn.
DAWN, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DAWN: Yes, I have a question. I`ve been watching the case since the beginning. And I noticed there was a police officer some time ago that lost his job on -- about lying about his relationship with Casey Anthony.
GRACE: Right.
DAWN: And I was wondering, is there a way that him and Casey Anthony might have had some kind of thing going on and had they done a DNA test to see if he might be Caylee`s father.
GRACE: Interesting. Out to Mark Williams, remember the sheriff that lost his job with that relationship, let me say euphemistically, with tot mom.
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: That`s right.
GRACE: They did DNA, parental DNA on her -- on little Caylee, correct?
WILLIAMS: That`s right. But we still don`t know who that father is. She has never come forward with the answer to that question. She says, basically, it was a one-night stand when she was 19 years old.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tracy police have confirmed that investigators re- interviewed two people. One was a man who had kissed Sandra on the mouth two years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know nothing about her disappearance at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police also say federal investigators towed away a car and a Jeep Cherokee with a canoe and executed six search warrants. Four locations inside Orchard Estate, one in Tracy and one in Oak Dale in the central valley.
Sandra Cantu was last seen Friday night.
ANGIE CHAVEZ, AUNT OF MISSING 8-YR-OLD GIRL: My father-in-law had installed video cameras around the house two weeks before she disappeared. And the video caught her on camera walking away from the camera which would be towards -- going away from the entrance of the mobile home park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A lot happening in this case. This little girl disappears after a play date with a little friend.
Straight out to Blake Taylor with KMJ 580 News Radio. Blake, what`s the latest? What can you tell me about police searching a dumpster? That can`t be good.
BLAKE TAYLOR, NEWS DIRECTOR, KMJ 580 NEWS RADIO, COVERING STORY: A dump site, as a matter of fact. No, it`s not, Nancy. Thanks for having me back, by the way. Investigators yet scouring on the trash at the dump site south side of Tracy today and yesterday, as a matter of fact.
Now they won`t say exactly what they`re looking for other than possible evidence. We don`t know if they`re looking for a body, anything like that at this point. They won`t divulge any details. But we don`t know if they found anything either.
Cadaver dogs have been out the past few days as well as. Obviously not a good sign. Police -- but they say that`s routine in a missing persons` case like this. They say they`re not ruling anything out right now.
Police spokesman Lieutenant Jeremy Watney this morning said they`re checking out anything and everything. You got to keep in mind, they`re really frustrated right now because of the lack of movement and progress in this case. They say they`re narrowing things down but they`ve received nearly 500 tips in the past few days alone, a hundred yesterday alone, that they`re having to research and dive deep into.
GRACE: Everyone, the tip line, 800-843-5678 or 209-831-6847.
With me right now, special guest, Lieutenant Jeremy Watney. He is with the Tracy Police Department.
Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the search. Is it by ground? By foot? By air?
LT. JEREMY WATNEY, PIO, TRACY POLICE DEPT.: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for the time to talk about this case.
GRACE: Yes, sir.
WATNEY: It is by all methods. And just to clarify a couple of things. We started looking at the trash site here where they bring in the trash every day to just cover all of the trash coming in from the city of Tracy. We had nothing specific to lead us there to think that we`re going to find everything.
But it`s one of those things we need to do now because then down the road people ask, hey, why didn`t you at least check? We were checking everybody`s trash that`s coming in every single day just to cover that base.
GRACE: Lieutenant Watney, I`m so relieved to hear that. Just recently, I`m sure you are familiar with the Haleigh Cummings` case were coming down -- covering in Satsuma, Florida. Now a month after the fact she goes missing, the police searched a particular dumpster.
Now I don`t know if they searched it earlier, if they did, we didn`t know about it, and the big question was, what took you so long? You know these are basic elementary things.
WATNEY: Right.
GRACE: I`m glad you did that. At least you can rule it out. What about the rest of the search, Lieutenant?
WATNEY: The rest -- you know it`s interesting because a lot of people continue to bring up the fact, oh the odds aren`t in your favor and things like that but the cool thing about odds is there`s always odds on the other side of the ledger. And I know I`m following a tough story with what happened down in Florida, but I refuse to believe that our case is going to end like that.
Today, as a matter of fact, we had more people in our briefing between the FBI and the other agencies that are helpings Tracy Police Department. And I got a really good feeling in the briefing that we`re locking on to some good leads and that this investigation is headed in the right direction.
I think everybody`s feeling pretty upbeat about -- you know, that we`re starting to really make progress in this investigation.
GRACE: Yes, of course, there`s this -- the cases of Elizabeth Smart, Ben Ownby, there are cases where children are found alive, and we`re holding onto that hope in the case of little Sandra Cantu.
Everyone, she is 4 feet tall. She`s only 45 pounds. Brown hair. Brown eyes. She`s a second grader. Please take a look at this gorgeous little girl.
Out to Sebastian Kunz with KNEW. He`s joining us from San Francisco.
Sebastian, thank you for being with us. Sebastian, what can you tell me about the two people named as persons of interest and about some guy, about 60 years old, kissing the little girl on the mouth in a pool? That can`t be good.
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: Again, you`re right, it can`t be good but it`s also one of those stories that doesn`t appear to be going very far. This is -- you`re referring to Frank Wohler. A martial arts` instructor and the owner of a martial arts shop in the Tracy area.
By the way, not a low-key kind of a guy at all. This martial arts shop was actually rated the best in Tracy in 2007. So this is not a guy who is hiding from the limelight. But it does seem incredibly strange that -- I know that when I`m swimming I don`t make kissy face with people who I`m not familiar with at the pool.
GRACE: Sebastian, good to know. But police are not confirming that anybody`s been named a person of interest.
KUNZ: That is correct. I am hearing there are two persons of interest. And the media is kind of glumming on to two of these men. One of them is Frank Wohler, the other is Chris Sinclair, who is actually arrested for getting in the way of the investigation.
It`s unclear as to whether he is actually one of the persons of interest. Police are keeping a tight lid on the names of those people that they`re interested in this evening.
GRACE: I want to go out to a special guest joining us. This is Sandra Cantu`s aunt, Angie Chavez.
Ms. Chavez, thank you for being with us. Miss, Chavez, we are getting.
CHAVEZ: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am. We are getting flooded with questions from viewers. Many of them want to know the living arrangements. You know you have to rule out family, relatives, close friends, neighbors first. Who was living in the home?
CHAVEZ: Her grandma and grandpa, her mom, her older sister, or actually she`s got two older sisters, and an older brother.
GRACE: And.
CHAVEZ: And occasionally they have her nephew in the house.
GRACE: And all of them without exception have been cooperative with police, correct?
CHAVEZ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
GRACE: Where`s the father?
CHAVEZ: The father, from what I understand, he`s here in Tracy now but he was -- apparently he lives in Mexico.
GRACE: Was he in or around the home on the day she goes missing?
CHAVEZ: No.
GRACE: OK so that -- that pretty much rules him out.
We are taking your calls live, out to Chris in New Jersey. Hi, Chris.
CHRIS, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. I have a quick question.
GRACE: OK.
CHRIS: I was wondering, I heard the family say that two weeks before video cameras had been installed. I was wondering if there was a reason why they had been installed, because it just seemed very odd.
GRACE: Good question. Back to Sandra`s aunt Angie Chavez.
Miss Chavez, I was wondering that myself. Why were the cameras installed two weeks before she goes missing?
CHAVEZ: My father-in-law had his van vandalized twice so he wanted to see if he could catch whoever was doing it so that`s why the cameras went up.
GRACE: Got you. Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.
Marc, you`ve been right where the Cantu family is when Polly went missing. What`s your take?
KLAAS: Well, they`re dominated by fear right now. I mean they absolutely have no idea where their little girl is. They`re not getting very much information from police. They`re -- you know, unsure of what the future is going to hold, but they have to hold on to hope. Because if they don`t have hope, nobody has hope. It`s a very difficult situation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as people of interest, nobody has been ruled out. Yes, there were two people that were named in the original search warrants, but at this point we are talking to everybody and nobody has been ruled out. It`s a pretty broad investigation right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Barbara in Ohio. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
BARBARA: My question is, when he kissed the little girl on the mouth, did he say what he did that for?
GRACE: Good question. What can you tell me, Sebastian?
KUNZ: Nancy, I understand he says he was trying to be nice. That is the simple short explanation.
GRACE: OK. Anybody trying to be nice to Lucy or John David, they are going to get a little knuckle sandwich, no mayo.
Back out to Lt. Jeremy Watney, joining us from the Tracy Police Department. Lieutenant, why are you not making public the two persons of interest if there two persons of interest?
WATNEY: It`s interesting. That`s actually kind of growing legs and butt out there. In the search warrant that we served a couple of nights ago, it mentioned a total of six locations, multiple vehicles and two people.
Since then everybody all of a sudden there`s two persons of interest.
GRACE: Right.
WATNEY: . and I`ve heard all sorts of different names thrown around.
GRACE: OK.
WATNEY: We can`t name because the judge hasn`t decided whether he is going to seal or open up that search warrant so I can`t name who those are, but it`s been pure speculation by everybody as far as who those people are because we have not released that.
GRACE: Alan Ripka, Renee Rockwell, if this child is still alive, the kidnapper still has a chance to see daylight again. If he kills the child, it`s over. What is your advice quickly, Renee?
ROCKWELL: I didn`t hear your question, Nancy, but there`s always the chance to get yourself in a better position and bring the child in.
GRACE: Ripka?
RIPKA: Bring the child back immediately and the authorities will go easy on you and your sentence will be a lot shorter.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Adam Wenger, 27, Waterford, Michigan, killed Iraq on a second tour, served in Kosovo and Afghanistan. Loved sports, soccer, fishing, oyster, (INAUDIBLE). Spending time with children, talking to his wife up to three times a day. Leaves behind mom, Jo, widow Brandy, seven children.
Adam Wenger, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from New York and Ireland, friends of the show, Lisa, Mary, Ellen and Ann. Aren`t they beautiful?
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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