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Nancy Grace
Corrections Officers Deposed in Casey Anthony Murder Case
Aired April 02, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee`s, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. After we learn tot mom sneaks a handwritten note to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, begging for a secret meeting -- we`ve got the letter -- we confirm in the last hours, tot mom`s defense grill the sheriff who took that note from tot mom.
Also under oath in the last hours, the Anthonys` private eye, who says grandparents George and Cindy Anthony were notified in California during a press junket Caylee`s remains found. He says they fly back, get picked up in a waiting limo and head to luxury Ritz-Carlton to feast on crab puffs, sliced steak, fried tomatoes, reportedly paid for by ABC. This while investigators literally on their hands and knees, searching for all of little Caylee`s skeletal bones. Why weren`t the Anthonys more distraught? Did they already know the outcome of the search and the tiny body`s location?
And today, the mudslinging begins. After Kiomarie Cruz goes under oath to say tot mom wanted to put Caylee up for adoption and that she had never heard of a nanny named Zenaida Gonzalez, the Anthony attorney goes on the offense and publicly attacks state witness Kiomarie Cruz, this after Cruz cracks the story as to why that specific location hand picked to discard Caylee`s body. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony set to go under oath, answering questions on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another round of questioning today in the case against Casey Anthony. Her attorney, Jose Baez, interviews four more people, three of them Orange County corrections officers, including Lieutenant Tammy Uncer. Uncer allegedly discussed Casey Anthony`s medical details with prosecutors. Lieutenant Uncer was the corrections employee who escorted Casey from her cell to take her to the jail`s medical common area the day little Caylee`s body was found. Lieutenant Uncer is the person who observed the accused child killer hyperventilating. Also questioned, former Anthony private eye Jim Hoover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did say to you, We -- him and Cindy -- we have thrown Casey under the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They thought they had thrown her under the bus, yes, sir.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I was in three feet of my daughter`s car, the worst odor that you could possibly smell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just the interviews that they have given, you know, about the smells in the car, you know, it`s -- it`s pretty strong...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evidence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t know about evidence, but -- not evidence so much as indication, indications of a body being in the trunk.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Life`s not fair. Stuff that`s being said has been completely, completely fabricated and twisted and everything else, and it`s ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, "Dancing With the Stars" sweetheart, Olympic gold medal winner Shawn Johnson, the target of a kidnapping. An armed man caught with two loaded guns, duct tape, zip ties and love letters actually makes it onto the "Dancing With the Stars" set to kidnap the dancing beauty. As we go to air, grainy police dashcam video emerges of the stalker as he makes his way across the country to kidnap Johnson, rambling about marrying her and starting a family. He claims she invited him and egged him on over the airwaves. Tonight, we have the videotape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Los Angeles police arrested a man trying to break onto the set of "Dancing With the Stars." They say he wanted to meet Olympic medalist Shawn Johnson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police officer making an early morning traffic stop didn`t think much of this guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Olympic gymnast. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Loxley police chief Chip Cason says the officer, who didn`t even know who Johnson was, sent O`Ryan on his way with two traffic tickets, never suspecting the man standing in front of him would be arrested five days later with loaded guns, duct tape and love letters to his idol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. After we learn tot mom sneaks a handwritten note to a veteran jailhouse sheriff, begging for a secret meeting, we confirm in the last hours, tot mom`s defense grills the sheriff who took that note from tot mom. Also under oath, the Anthonys` private eye, who says grandparents George and Cindy Anthony were notified in California during a press junket Caylee`s remains were found. Why weren`t they more distraught? Did they already know the outcome of the search and the tiny body`s location?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: Just write it down and say this has to be delivered to Mr. Kevin Berry, the sheriff, and he`ll do it. He`s already been talked to already, and he`s willing to do anything he can for you, for us, especially for Caylee. He`ll do anything he can, OK?
CASEY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll do that this morning.
(DELETED) detectives (DELETED) They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff.
GEORGE ANTHONY: It can be at a location that is not going to be recorded. It`s going to be at a place that just you and I or you and Lee or just you and Mom can just sit down and just talk. That`s what it`s about.
CASEY ANTHONY: They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Once we get all that done, you know, we can get together and get a chance to hug you and talk to you.
CINDY ANTHONY: I want an apology from Kevin Berry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Won`t happen. We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey one time was considering giving up little Caylee for adoption.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there ever talk of Casey talking to you about giving up Caylee for adoption?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today we learn more witnesses under oath. Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter, standing by there at the jailhouse. What`s happened, Mark?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR, REPORTER: Well, a couple of depositions went down today at the Orange County courthouse. First up, Lieutenant Tammy Unger (SIC). She`s a corrections official, a corrections guard, who allegedly saw Casey Anthony hyperventilate when she found out on television that the remains of an individual had been found off of Suburban Drive, and also those remains turned out to be Caylee Anthony.
Also Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony, wanted to question Tammy Uncer about the release of medical records. She -- he believes that she released some medical records pertaining to Casey Anthony. That is not the case. They do not have information or access to those medical records.
Also, a corrections officer by the name of Marlene Baker allegedly got a note from Casey Anthony, a handwritten note. That note was written at the behest of George Anthony, her father, to be sent on to then sheriff Kevin Berry, asking for a meeting, a private meeting between Anthony family members and Casey Anthony. As you heard Kevin say -- Kevin Berry say, that didn`t happen. That wasn`t going to happen.
Also, third up today, private eye Jim Hoover, who testified and who talked about how the family came back from California from that press junket. And only hours after little Caylee`s remains were discovered, they went to the Ritz-Carlton and dined on sliced steak, crab puffs and fried tomatoes. So there you go, Nancy. That`s the biggest from Orlando.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to what this private eye, Jim Hoover, had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all had dinner down there at the Ritz that night?
JIM HOOVER, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caitlin (ph) ordered some appetizers?
HOOVER: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who all was at the dinner that might?
HOOVER: Let`s see. Caitlin sat across from me. Mallory (ph) sat next to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s Mallory?
HOOVER: Mallory`s Lee Anthony`s girlfriend, I guess. And then Lee and then there was an empty chair. And then (INAUDIBLE) sitting -- excuse me -- back to the wall. Cindy was sitting next to me, then George and Dominic at the other end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And then Caitlin, I understand, ordered appetizers for the table?
HOOVER: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did Baez ever show up?
HOOVER: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did he show up?
HOOVER: Probably about halfway through the meal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he order some food, too?
HOOVER: I think something had been ordered for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All right. The luxury Ritz-Carlton, feasting on crab cakes, sliced steak, fried tomatoes, appetizers. This is just hours after the family is reportedly told -- there you see the inside of the luxury Ritz- Carlton -- they`re told that Caylee`s remains, their granddaughter`s skeleton, has been found.
Now, don`t get me wrong, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Randy Zelin. I don`t care what they eat, but does this suggest to you, seeing that they`re able to go out, reportedly paid for by ABC network, for fine dining, that they already knew the outcome of the search, Eleanor Dixon, and where the body would be found? If my child`s remains had been found a couple of hours ago, I would be there at the scene. They were at the Ritz-Carlton living it up, Eleanor Dixon.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: You`re exactly right, Nancy. It does indicate that they knew something, especially this "Zone" where Casey had gone in her younger years to bury her beloved pets. I would say she treated the pets better than she treated her own child. And I don`t know about the Ritz, Nancy. I know on a government salary, I`m not there eating crab puffs.
GRACE: To Peter Odom, Randy Zelin. To me, this is circumstantial evidence, Peter Odom, that the grandparents already knew. I mean, to find out that their grandchild`s body was just found, and they`re out living it up on crab puffs at the Ritz-Carlton? Something`s not right with that picture.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They were staying at the Ritz.
GRACE: So?
ODOM: And you know, Nancy, there`s no script for grieving.
GRACE: Oh, OK. You got anything better than that, Randy?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I have to agree with you. It may not be circumstantial evidence, but boy, oh, boy, jurors are going to say, How would I react?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her!
GEORGE ANTHONY: I don`t like the smell in the car. I`m being straight with you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn`t like the smell, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell filled up the garage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it was -- it was -- it hits you like a wave. I mean, it was -- whatever it was, it was very potent.
GEORGE ANTHONY: She didn`t want me going in the trunk of the car.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots, and it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.
Well, I know none of this is true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well, here`s...
CINDY ANTHONY: I mean, I know that now it`s not true, but at the time, I believed it was true.
GEORGE ANTHONY: The day that she was born, after they got done cleaning my granddaughter up and stuff like that, who they handed her to was my wife. And my daughter has always...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harbored ill feelings?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, there`s been some toughness right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I said, What`s up? He said, I know where Caylee is. She`s dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we learn more depositions under oath taken of key witnesses, including a sheriff who took a note, a handwritten note -- we have that note -- by tot mom asking for a private meeting. Now, it was given to veteran jailhouse sheriff. That meeting denied. Also, we learned about a very unusual rendezvous.
Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Dr. Bethany, we learn from this private eye, Jim Hoover, just coming out of the hot seat in the last hours, the defense putting him under oath for questioning, says grandparents George and Cindy Anthony apparently learn in California, where they were on a press junket -- before they were to come home, they find out, they fly home -- they`re met by a waiting limousine and are taken to the luxury Ritz-Carlton, where they dine on crab puffs, sliced steak, appetizers courtesy of ABC network, reportedly. This is right after they learn cops are trying to dig their granddaughter`s skeleton out of the dirt.
Now, to me, they seem to be very much in love with Caylee. They love her. So the only alternative I can come up with is that they already knew at that time where Caylee would be found and that she would be found because they exhibited no signs of grief during that dinner.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I completely agree with you because Cindy Anthony sounds so heartbroken when she makes that initial 911 call. She loves this little girl. But the fact that they can slurp up a big meal really indicates that they are not grieving. When people are in grief, they lose their appetite. Have you ever seen a person in serious grief eat a lot of food? They don`t. They lose weight following the news of the death of a loved one.
And I think what`s even more appalling and heartbreaking to me is even if they already knew that their granddaughter was dead, to dine after this news shows such a lack of empathy that this little girl`s body was lying in the woods, it makes you really begin to rethink Casey`s lack of empathy towards her own child and that this was a particular style in this dysfunctional family.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike Brooks, you`ve been on so many scenes where bodies were discovered.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.
GRACE: Are you surprised the Anthonys didn`t show up at the scene, instead dining at the Ritz-Carlton that night?
BROOKS: You know, Nancy, even though their house was getting searched, I`m very surprised they didn`t go right from California, get off that plane and go right to the scene to find out exactly what was going on, exactly what was found. You know, it just -- it behooves (SIC) me why they didn`t do that.
I mean, anybody else would -- you know, Nancy, because as you know, one of the hardest things to do -- and I`ve had to do this as a detective - - is to notify the family of a death of a loved one. And I can tell you, I`ve seen all kinds of ranges of emotion, but I`ve never seen anyone go to the Ritz-Carlton and dine on crab puffs.
GRACE: Back to Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta. You just said there`s no playbook for grief. Do you care to rethink that position?
ODOM: No, I don`t, Nancy. But you also have to consider that these people might have known what really all of America knew after so many months that this child had not surfaced. They may have already done their grieving. What they did might have be seen as inappropriate by some people, but that`s how this dysfunctional family functions.
GRACE: Don`t get me wrong, Odom. I don`t care what`s appropriate or inappropriate. I don`t care who has good manners or bad manners or no manners. What I care about is this. What does this prove at trial?
ODOM: Nothing. Nothing.
GRACE: Is this evidence? To Eleanor Dixon. Eleanor, could it prove at trial they had prior knowledge where the body was, that it would be found, what the outcome of the search would be? And where else would they get that knowledge except from their own daughter, Eleanor Dixon?
DIXON: Yes, and there are other instances where you can see they`re covering up or trying to explain away Casey`s behavior. Look at Cindy just saying, Hey, that was a pizza in the back of the car, not a dead body.
GRACE: To board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. Dr. Arnall, how many bones are in the human body?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: About 206.
GRACE: So while the detectives were on their hands and knees in the dirt, trying to comb the dirt, literally combing the dirt, trying to find her full skeleton so as not to leave her skeleton, any part of it, there, they`re at the Ritz-Carlton. Dr. Arnall, do you remember how many days those detectives stayed out there on their hands and knees searching for her bones?
ARNALL: Not the exact -- it was several days that they were there.
GRACE: You`re right, Dr. Arnall. And isn`t it true that in many situations, you never find the entire skeleton? There`s likely still Caylee`s bones out there in that area where she was disposed.
ARNALL: That`s a significant possibility.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead.
(INAUDIBLE) don`t mean anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have returns that do indicate human decomposition was present and located in the defendant`s vehicle. We had high hopes of finding her alive.
CINDY ANTHONY: If we continue to, you know, look at evidence that hasn`t been verified, you guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin because, eventually, something`s happen to her if we don`t find her.
Continue to look for Caylee. She is not dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) not telling you where her daughter is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what more can this one witness do to torpedo the defense case? I`m talking about the Anthony private eye, Jim Hoover.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Jim Hoover, in addition to talking about what happened at the Ritz, he also was with the Anthonys` private eye, Dominic Casey, on that day, on November 15th, when they went and searched the area where the remains were later found. Now, he says that Dominic Casey didn`t tell him where he got that tip that led him to search there, but he speculated that Lee Anthony may have been on the phone at some point with Dominic Casey.
GRACE: Out to Rory O`Neill with Westwood One radio, standing there at the jailhouse in Florida. Rory, all right, so we`ve got Jim Hoover, the private eye, under oath by the defense on the hot seat. We also have another witness, a sheriff, the sheriff tot mom handed that handwritten note to, asking for a private meeting. What about the other sheriff that was with tot mom when she hyperventilated watching live coverage of the discovery of Caylee`s remains and asked for medication for herself?
RORY O`NEILL, WESTWOOD ONE: Yes, we had three separate corrections officers who were interviewed in the depositions today, and that was the story -- those were the stories they were re-telling. The depositions were relatively brief, only about an hour, and they told of those specific instances. One you mentioned, where Casey reacted to news that, yes, it was her daughter that was found in that shallow grave. And the other talked about the note that was passed to Sheriff Kevin Berry requesting that Casey have a meeting with her father, George, in private. So those are the discussions that the lawyers were talking about -- those were the topics of the depositions today. Of course, it is private, so we don`t know those answers.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story from the very beginning. Natisha, the mudslinging has started. The sworn testimony of long-time tot mom friend Kiomarie Cruz has been taken, and now the attorneys come out swinging. What did they say about the witness, Kiomarie Cruz?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Brad Conway, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, questioned her credibility, saying that it is very shoddy credibility at this point because she sold her story for $20,000, at least according to him, to "The Enquirer."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: We even pulled surveillance video from an apartment complex and they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day. Do you think that we`re stupid and we`re not going to do all this stuff?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.
SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Right now Caylee may not be in very good shape. Do you understand what I`m saying? She may not be the way we and her family last remembers her. We need to find out from you where Caylee is.
This right now is just -- this has gone so far downhill and this has become such a mess. We need to end it. It`s very simple. We just need to end it.
ANTHONY: I agree with you. I have no clue where she is.
ALLEN: Sure you do.
ANTHONY: If I knew in any sense where she was this wouldn`t have happened at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Just off of the hot seat, a series of sheriffs dealing with the day tot mom observed. Live coverage of the discovery of Caylee`s remains and all about this handwritten note tot mom sends to one of the jailers, passing it along asking for a private meeting with family although they had 29 days in private, in -- under the same roof after she first bonded out of jail.
To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, being deposed in this case, searched for little Caylee. What do you make of the parents, the grandparents going and dining at the Ritz Carlton while the detectives are there trying to recover all of Caylee`s bones?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, EXPECTED TO TESTIFY IN CASEY ANTHONY CIVIL SUIT: Look at the difference in the reaction from when we were up at the Little Econ River diving and her and George showed up throwing a fit versus them flying from Los Angeles to Orlando and then just going to the hotel without even going to the site. Look at the difference in their reaction.
GRACE: Explain.
PADILLA: Well, their reaction was one of, OK, they found the body. Whereas they knew that the body wasn`t up at the Little Econ. George says to me personally, what are you doing here? He didn`t say that to the people at the.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I`m just a J.D. I`m just a trial lawyer. I`m not a mind reader so just tell me flat out what you`re trying to say. Don`t be prissy.
PADILLA: They knew.
GRACE: Don`t be mysterious.
PADILLA: They knew the body was where the cop had found it. When they flew back, why bother going out there? They don`t want to add to any more -- it`s there. The body`s there. They found it. OK, we got to go forward from here.
GRACE: Mike Brooks?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I have to agree with Leonard. It sure sounded like they knew it. And you know, back to the question about Dominic Casey and Lee Anthony.
You know, Nancy, if there was any call between -- from Lee Anthony to Dominic Casey or Casey to Anthony that will show up in cell phone records. So they`ve got to know right now whether or not that call was ever made.
GRACE: And very quickly back to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, explain to me one more time, quickly, the time -- the scenario. They were in California, the grandparents on that press junket and what happened?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. They were in California to do a TV appearance and also they were checking out a tip that Caylee had been seen at a Mexican restaurant out there. They were notified that the remains had been found. They flew back to Orlando. They were picked up by the Orange County Sheriff`s Department, taken behind the Bennigans (ph) where then they got into this limo and went to the Ritz.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Randy Zelin, the defense putting all these witnesses on the hot seat under oath. It`s only hurting the defense.
Why, Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, they`re just going on a big fishing expedition, Nancy. Seeing what they can get, if they can use it at trial so they can use some-other-dude-did-it defense, but you know, the prosecution case is strong here.
GRACE: Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`ve got to find out what it is that the state is going to be coming at them with, so I think what they`re doing is smart. What`s more curious, Nancy, is how about the witnesses that they`re not deposing. Have they yet deposed a single forensic evidence expert? And isn`t that some of the strongest evidence against her?
GRACE: Well, the answer to that is no. Randy Zelin?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Florida is a fascinating state because you`re actually allowed to take depositions. It really is unique and it basically -- the statute talks about who you can depose without permission. Who you need permission for. They will get the opportunity to depose experts if, in fact, those experts are going to be on the witness list.
But you know what, Nancy? I`ve been listening to you. You`ve turned me. I cannot believe watching the reaction, the reactions of that defendant and her parents, that`s what`s going to get her convicted.
GRACE: Well, and let me just add a little footnote to you defense attorneys who say this is their only way to find out what the state witnesses are going to say. B.S. They can call them on the phone, ask them questions. They can show up at work, even their home, and if the people will talk to them which the sheriffs probably will, they don`t have to depose them.
So putting this, commemorating it into a deposition form, even if these witnesses don`t show up at trial you`ve got their testimony locked in now. I think it`s shooting themselves in the foot, but you know what? It`s not on me to tell Baez how to try a case.
You know, his last big trial was defending another person in the murder of a 2-year-old little girl and that guy blames Baez for being in jail, not that I believe that guy.
Very quickly, I want to tell you about an alleged perv who sneaks on to the set of "Dancing with the Stars."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE (voice over): "Dancing with the Stars" sweetheart, Olympic gold medal winner Shawn Johnson, the target of a kidnapping.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police officer making an early morning traffic stop didn`t think much of this guy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During the 29-minute stop O`Ryan talked about Shawn Johnson at least three times. At one point the officer asked if he had ever spoken with her. And O`Ryan said only in his dreams.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know it sounds a little bit crazy, but my intuition tells me that we`re going to have a beautiful relationship together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A CBS security detail saw Robert O`Ryan jumping a fence to get into the lot. They then found him in a hallway close to the studio where "Dancing with the Stars" happened. They asked him, do you have any weapons? And he finally said yes, in fact, I do have two weapons loaded in his car.
They also found paraphernalia used for kidnapping in his car. They found duct tape, they found wiretaps, they found love letters to Shawn Johnson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, just one word, freak. To Tom O`Neil, senior editor of "In Touch Weekly," do you see this grainy surveillance video of a cop dash cam? He says, "My intuition is I`m supposed to go meet her, marry her and impregnate her."
That`s where he`s headed and the cop goes, sure, whatever. He didn`t know who Shawn Johnson was.
TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR IN TOUCH WEEKLY, COVERING STORY: Yes, yes, yes. This is remarkable. This is five days before Robert O`Ryan is arrested for stalking. Everything that you need to know what might happen is in that car. Obviously something suspicious is going on and that police officer doesn`t pick up on it.
GRACE: Out to Jessica Taloney with WKRG joining us from Mobil, Alabama. Weigh in, Jessica.
JESSICA TALONEY, REPORTER, WKRG, COVERING STORY: Well, basically, what Loxley police chief tells us is that this officer`s specific job is to patrol Interstate 10 looking for drugs and any kind of criminal behavior. And he spotted O`Ryan`s car about 20 miles from the Florida state line and he pulled him over after he saw O`Ryan swerving from lane to lane, but during the 29-minute dash cam video that we`ve all seen, he asked a long series of questions, half an hour worth of questions and he says while it was clear that O`Ryan was crazy to him, he did not appear to be threatening.
GRACE: To Jim Schoettler, reporter with the "Florida Times-Union," this guy is from Florida. What do you know about his background?
JIM SCHOETTLER, REPORTER, THE FLORIDA TIMES-UNION, COVERING STORY: Hey, Nancy. Well, he was -- neighbors describe him as a recluse. He actually went to high school here in Jacksonville and then after that he graduated from the University of Florida and J. Jacksonville University with a double major, mechanical science.
Apparently he was a guy who had it on the ball. Bought a house for $130 grand, sold it for $200,000 and then ended up in this RV park in a travel trailer where people just described him as a guy that had very little visitors didn`t talk very much. He had some kind of a back problem. They said he was in some kind of an accident. He could barely get out of his car but.
GRACE: Right.
SCHOETTLER: . he didn`t want anybody`s help. People were willing to take his mail to him whatever and then he just left. He just disappeared.
GRACE: With me is Jim Schoettler, Tom O`Neil, Jessica Taloney, apparently this guy wanted to be on the Olympic rowing team and hurt his back and became a recluse until now emerging on the scene trying to kidnap "Dancing with the Beauty Star" Shawn Johnson.
Quickly to break, tonight, the fight against cavernous angioma, a debilitating disease affecting three million Americans. The illness marked by raspberry-shaped abnormal blood vessels in the brain or spine, causes seizures, stroke symptoms, hemorrhages, headaches.
The Angioma Alliance helping to fight the illness launching their first annual run/walk April 5. For more information go to AngiomaAlliance.org.
And tonight happy birthday to Colorado friend of the show, Mayree Dorothy. She never misses a show. Happy birthday, beautiful lady. And happy birthday to Kentucky friend of the show, Wyatt. He`s turning a big 2 years old today. What an angel baby boy. Happy birthday.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are you headed with all this stuff?
O`RYAN: California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is she?
O`RYAN: Shawn Johnson. She`s an Olympic gymnast. She`s on TV now. I`m meeting her there. I`ve been communicating with her and basically, I`m going to try to get her to marry me. I know it sounds a little bit crazy, but my intuition tells me that we`re going to have a beautiful relationship together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "My intuition tells me we`re going to have a beautiful relationship together?" Here`s Shawn Johnson from ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars." This guy traveled all the way across the country, even getting stopped by police and rambling on and on about he`s going to marry Shawn Johnson.
Well, the cop that stopped him had never heard of Shawn Johnson so it didn`t ring a bell to him.
Tom O`Neil, what exactly -- Tom O`Neil is joining us. He`s a senior editor with "In Touch Weekly." What exactly did he tell the cop?
O`NEIL: Well, the most revealing comment in the clip we just saw was when he admits that he -- this sounds a little bit crazy. And Nancy, if this cop had known who Shawn Johnson is, he would know that she`s 17 years old. That`s half the age of this guy. That means this doesn`t add up. This guy could be crazy.
GRACE: To Philip Robinson, joining us from Yulee, Florida. He`s the co-owner of the Osprey Park where Ryan once lived. What`s your take on the guy? Do you think he was crazy?
PHILIP ROBINSON, CO-OWNER, OSPREY RV PARK WHERE O`RYAN PREVIOUSLY LIVED: He didn`t appear to be crazy. He`s real quiet, but not -- I wouldn`t say crazy.
GRACE: When did he leave the community?
ROBINSON: He`s left here probably two years ago.
GRACE: Why did he leave?
ROBINSON: We don`t know. He just left. One day he was gone and we went down to check his camper and we saw that he moved everything and he just left.
GRACE: So what did you think -- what was your reaction when you found out what cops are accusing him of, of breaking, getting all of the way through security to get to Shawn Johnson.
ROBINSON: I was -- we were real surprised. That did not seem like his character when he was here.
GRACE: What was his character? What was his character, Phil Robinson?
ROBINSON: Well, he was kind of a loner and stayed to himself, but, you know, he seemed like a really, really nice guy.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, Dr. Bethany, isn`t that always the way a loner?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I think we have to remember, Lisa, Lisa Nowak, the astronaut who put on a pair of diapers and drove all night. How normal did she appear to the NASA space program? I mean she seemed intact on the surface but she had an obsessional belief system about her love rival.
Look at John Mark Karr, who had this whole obsessional belief system about JonBenet Ramsey. He looked fairly intact on the surface, a little bizarre, but he had multiple marriages.
People who are what we call erroti-manic (ph). They have to believe that they`re loved by somebody, but when they`re manic they put a tremendous amount of energy into it and then they go after the love object.
GRACE: Back to Jim Schoettler, with the "Florida Times-Union." Did this guy have any kind of a record?
SCHOETTLER: No, Nancy. Nothing at all. We ran an FDLE check which is our state agency and the only thing he had that we could find was a traffic ticket in this county, Duval County.
GRACE: I know one thing he had and that`s plenty of gun permits.
Unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Atlanta, Peter Odom, Atlanta, Randy Zelin, New York.
Eleanor Dixon, this guy is not crazy. He managed to get in a car and drive all of the way across the country to pursue Shawn Johnson.
DIXON: And he`s certainly not legally insane either, Nancy. And you just mentioned all of the steps he took in preparation for his trip to California. These are the scariest kinds of defendants. The ones who will go to any means necessary to get the object they desire.
GRACE: Peter Odom?
ODOM: I completely disagree. This is a person that is mentally ill. He`s acting on paranoid delusions. He should be medicated. Now he might be dangerous, but clearly, he`s mentally ill. And probably legally insane.
GRACE: You`re seeing Shawn Johnson from ABC`s "Dancing with the Stars." She came that close to meeting up with Robert O`Ryan, 34 years old, still in custody.
Randy Zelin?
ZELIN: I`m going to fall somewhere in the middle. It seems to me it`s a little bit premature to say whether or not this guy understood what he was doing, the consequences of his actions, his ability to appreciate that what he was doing was wrong, but certainly the planning, the steps, everything he did probably cuts against what I just said.
GRACE: Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: I tell you what, Nancy. He exhibited all the stalking behavior from love obsessed. You know there was much this cop could have done? Absolutely not. You know, I-10, he`s there for drug interdiction and drug interdiction only.
He comes across this guy, swerving, oh maybe I`ve got somebody running drugs, comes up, talks to him, the guy is a little wacky -- let me correct myself, a lot wacky but he`s not involved with any kind of interdiction, and lets him go.
GRACE: I agree with you. It`s not the cop`s fault who has never seen Shawn Johnson on "Dancing with the Stars."
All right, let`s switch gears. It`s the 50th anniversary of Childhelp. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you doing? I just want a regular no sugar today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you read that whole thing today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, how are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s getting big, huh?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she is big. A haircut.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looks cute. Come on, let`s go. Nice to see you. Thanks a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If only child abusers was this easy to recognize. If you even suspect abuse call 1-800-4-A-CHILD, all calls are anonymous and confidential. Trust your instincts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Sarah O`Meara and Yvonne Fedderson, I`m wearing your Childhelp bracelet. You know, that commercial we just aired where the woman comes in wearing a t-shirt that says "child abuser" really made an impact on me.
Sarah O`Meara, tell me how you came about founding Childhelp.
SARAH O`MEARA, CHILDHELP CO-FOUNDER, CHILDHELP.ORG: It was a long time ago, Nancy. We were very young then. It was 1959 and Yvonne and I had been chosen to represent America on a goodwill type tour and we went to Korea, Okinawa in Japan.
And while we were in Japan it was the coldest winter they`ve ever had on record and we had a typhoon hit us and we were young, and daring and thought it was exciting that we were in the typhoon, and as we walked up the street from our hotel we found 11 children huddled together to fend off the cold.
And these children tried to get up under our big coats to keep warm. They had no shoes on. Their knuckles were cracked and bleeding from the cold and we were so disturbed about it and tried to converse with them, but we could not speak Japanese nor they English.
However, we did set upon together that there was no mama-san and no papa-san in their lives. So we picked them up, took them to our hotel room, bathed them, fed them and approached the colonel who was overseeing our tour to see what we could do to get these children placed and nobody really was able to help us and we.
GRACE: You know what? That is an incredible story. With me, Sarah O`Meara and Yvonne Fedderson, co-founders of Childhelp that`s made a huge impact in helping children all over the world.
To Yvonne Fedderson, you two were actually young starlets. You were actresses on "Ozzie and Harriet." Miss Fedderson, explain to me what was Operation Baby Lift?
YVONNE FEDDERSON, CHILDHELP CO-FOUNDER, CHILDHELP.ORG: Well, that was Vietnam. You see, we started in Japan and we ended up building four orphanages in Japan. After we incorporate it, we came back to the United States after we did our USO work overseas. And then.
O`MEARA: For half-American children.
FEDDERSON: For Amerisian children. And then in 1966, we were honored for the work that we had done in Japan and they asked us to work with the Third Marine Amphibious Force in Vietnam which we did from `66 to `75 until the end of the war. And then with the military, we helped arrange the Baby Lift. And we brought 30,000 children from Vietnam here to America to be in adopted homes.
GRACE: Absolutely incredible. Go to Childhelp.org if you want to help children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know it wouldn`t have been -- I won`t be the parent I am today to my four children. The cycle of abuse has stopped with me. It won`t carry on to my children. By the grace of God, you know, I`m very lucky. My children will never go through what I`ve went through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If you want to stop child abuse go, to Childhelp.org. With me on their 50th anniversary of Childhelp, the co-founders, Sarah O`Meara and Yvonne Fedderson.
You know, child abuse reported every 10 seconds. That`s three million incidents a year. What does Childhelp do to stop it?
O`MEARA: We do everything we can to stop it. For preventing it, we have a program in almost every state in the United States called Childhelp, Good Touch, Bad Touch. That`s in our schools for pre -- in kindergarten age and also elementary school to teach a child what to do in an uh-oh feeling.
GRACE: Right. Miss Fedderson, did you ever imagine 50 years ago -- and you ladies, I would never have guessed founded something 50 years ago, would grow into what Childhelp has become?
FEDDERSON: No. We didn`t dream that this would be our mission. But we soon found that out. There is our bus. And we`re so excited about having a bus because we -- this bus is going to be all throughout this next year and a half we`re going to go completely across the United States.
And the governors are going to honor someone in their state for the work that they have done for abused children. And the award will be coming from Childhelp. But the governor will present it to someone in each state because we want to tell everybody about what a tremendous problem this is.
GRACE: You know what?
FEDDERSON: And we need everybody`s help to stop child abuse in America.
GRACE: We certainly do need everyone`s help.
FEDDERSON: Yes, we do.
GRACE: You two ladies are angels. Everyone, 800-4-A-CHILD. Childhelp.org. Congratulations, Sarah O`Meara and Yvonne Fedderson.
Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Theron Hobbs, 22, Albany, Georgia, killed Iraq. Awarded the National Defense Service medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon. Had a big heart.
Leaves behind grieving widow Kimberly and a baby boy he never met also named after his father. His wife plans to show their boy videos of daddy.
Theron Hobbs, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.
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