Return to Transcripts main page
Jane Velez-Mitchell
Search on for California Girl, 8; Anna Nicole`s Father Blames Stern for Death; Is Misty the Key?; Case Against Casey; Madonna`s Adoption Shocker
Aired April 03, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, beautiful 8-year-old Sandra Cantu now missing for a week. Neighborhood sweeps come up empty after searching waste dumps and water. But the biggest clue may be the Web. Cops canvassing about 60 people near the Cantu home who they believe looked at child porn. Is this on top of the 80 registered sex offenders in the town? Are these stats typical for America?
Then, Jim Hoover`s jaw-dropper in the Casey Anthony case. The controversial private eye claims Dominic Casey had inside information that Caylee was dead and that`s what led the two P.I.s to the wooded site where Caylee`s remains were later found. Is Hoover claiming the Anthonys knew all along where Caylee was?
And the frantic search for Haleigh Cummings continues as more questions are raised about Misty. Who was in the home when Haleigh vanished? Could Misty`s alleged relationship with a mystery man named Greg hold the key to finding little Haleigh?
Then, an absolute stunner in the Madonna adoption case. A judge in Malawi rejects the superstar`s petition to adopt a girl from that impoverished African country. The reason? It`s in the girl`s best interest to stay in the orphanage. Oh, really? Are these people out of their minds? Better to live as an orphan than live with Madonna? I`ll get the story behind the story.
Plus, I`ll speak to Kim Baker of "E!" news to discuss his exclusive interview with Anna Nicole Smith`s father. Is he planning to sue her former boyfriend, Howard K. Stern?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking information in the desperate search for 8- year-old California girl Sandra Cantu tonight. One week and still no trace at all of this beautiful little girl who vanished last Friday in broad daylight after playing with a friend. The second grader was last seen in her mobile park community wearing a pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and black leggings.
Cops frantically looking for any signs of Sandra, sending out helicopters, going through the town`s trash, and dredging through rivers. Then came this surprising announcement from investigators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. JEREMY WATNEY, TRACY POLICE DEPARTMENT: A Hello Kitty T-shirt was found in the transfer station as they were going through the trash. However, when a picture was shown to Mom, she said it wasn`t her daughter`s T-shirt.
(END VIDEO CLOP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Authorities will run tests on the shirt just to be certain. But you have to wonder: what a coincidence that a little girl vanishes with a pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and a similar T-shirt, Hello Kitty, found in the trash. We`ll analyze that one.
Cops identify 60 people living in Sandra`s community who view or exchange child porn. That`s not all. And they say 78 registered sex offenders live in this town. Is this typical of America as a whole? What`s going on here? And what is the likelihood one of these people are related to her mysterious disappearance?
Straight out to my fantastic panel: Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychologist; Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of "And Justice for Some"; plus Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; and Vinny Parco, a private investigator. Also by phone, Eric Firpo, city editor with "The Tracy Press." He has been covering this case from the very start.
Eric, what is the latest?
ERIC FIRPO, "THE TRACY PRESS": Well, the latest is that, you know, they continue to search. And they haven`t found the girl, and they`ve made no arrests in the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, they held a news conference, and they announced she has a birthmark on her cheek, did they not? What did they say about that?
FIRPO: They did. They showed a photograph. You could actually barely see it. So -- but she has a little kind of a dark mole on her right cheek.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Doctor -- OK. So they said that that`s a distinctive feature, Eric, and that people out there looking for a child should look for this distinctive -- tell us what it is again?
FIRPO: Well, it`s a little -- it`s actually not that dark and it was very difficult to see in the photo, but they do -- she does have a little mole on her right cheek.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Dr. Dale Archer, I want to ask you about this Hello Kitty T-shirt. It seems astounding, as astounding coincidence, that this little girl`s last seen in a pink Hello Kitty T-shirt, and they find a Hello Kitty T-shirt in the trash, but the mother says that`s not the same T-shirt.
My question to you is could she be in shock? Could she be in denial? Could it be too difficult for her on an emotional level to acknowledge that that could be her daughter`s shirt, given the implications? Or is it possible that it`s just a wild coincidence?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, I mean, I think it`s possible that she could be in that much shock, but I think it`s unlikely. And I think that we would have to assume that the mother would know the exact shirt that her daughter was wearing.
And I don`t know how many different versions of these T-shirts there are, but I would take it at face value and say, you know what? This is probably true. It`s probably not the shirt. A shocking coincidence, but I don`t think it`s the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So going back to Eric, were both T-shirts pink?
FIRPO: Yes, they were pink. She was last seen wearing a pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and black leggings. And they really thought this was the big break in the case, actually. They were talking about that today, but it`s not the shirt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
FIRPO: As far as they`re concerned, they`ve moved on. It`s not the shirt. They`re not looking at the shirt anymore. They will test it, just to be, you know, 100 percent certain, but really, they don`t think it was the shirt. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, what do you make of it?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, I have a 7-year-old who loves Hello Kitty. And Hello Kitty T-shirts really are different. They come in a variety of styles, and they are mostly all pink. So it may well be nothing.
But I think it`s interesting that they`re pointing out the mole on the cheek, and we`re talking about child pornography, Jane. Because if you clip a kid, and you`re trying to either sell her for sex or porn, one of the things you`re going to do is dye her hair, try to make her look different. But you can`t easily get rid of a mole. So I think it`s telling. I think it`s important that people understand that.
The connection between little girls who disappear in this country or show up dead and child pornography is a real epidemic. And we need to know this, because the first thing we should be talking about is sex offenders and child pornography. Not the last thing. So that mole may well be an important clue for someone who sees that this child has been taken. Her hair may look different, but that mole will probably still be there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Drew Findling, I was shocked. I always am shocked when I hear these statistics. Almost 80 registered sex offenders in the immediate area. And then 60 viewers or exchangers of child porn. And we don`t know if there`s overlap there. But still, it seems to me a lot.
And yet, when you think about Haleigh Cummings case, apparently there were 44 sex offenders who were grilled by authorities who lived in that immediate area. And of course, it didn`t help. What do you make of these astounding statistics?
DREW FINDLING, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, you know it`s an issue I bring over and over again regarding the Cummings case. We cannot confuse the sex offenders that are 18-year-olds that had a relationship with their 9th grade girlfriends. Unfortunately, they`re there, and they increase and inflate the numbers.
I think what`s going to be different -- different in this case is the immediate use of the FBI. This is the FBI`s specialty right here. And I think you`re already seeing a sharp contrast between this and the Cummings case. And even the Anthony case, even though it`s a month away, for the following reasons.
We`ve never heard anything in the Cummings case about looking into people looking at pornography sites. That`s never been mentioned in that case, but the FBI is all over that in this case.
I can guarantee you -- I can guarantee you, if there`s a swampy, marshy area, they`ll be draining it and not worrying about snakes like they did in the Anthony case. That`s one of the most pitiful aspects of that case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
FINDLING: That will not happen as long as the FBI is involved.
MURPHY: Jane, Jane, Jane -- I`ve got to correct something. I`ve got to correct something here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Go ahead.
MURPHY: Just because we haven`t -- just because we haven`t heard that police have wondered or even checked to see who in the Haleigh Cummings area might have shared pornography doesn`t mean they haven`t done it, and it doesn`t mean it`s not part of the investigative process.
Let me tell you: child pornography is a huge multi-billion-dollar industry in this country. So they`d be derelict if they weren`t looking at it. And guess who the No. 1 makers are of child pornography.
FINDLING: Wendy, Wendy -- Wendy, Wendy, Wendy...
MURPHY: Parents!
FINDLING: Wendy, I will agree with you.
MURPHY: Parents!
FINDLING: But -- Wendy, I will agree with you, but when we had a press conference two days ago, Wendy, where the police are saying they`re too caught up in the dispute between the father and the mother, my goodness gracious. What do they care about the father and the mother? Get out there and work.
And we`re seeing in this case already a heightened sense of activity, and I think that`s what the FBI brings. They don`t care about mothers and fathers.
MURPHY: I agree with you. I think you`re...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to get to the Haleigh Cummings case in a little bit on this show. But I have to say you`re right: the FBI is already involved. The FBI searched the home of a man in the mobile home park, and this man`s name, Christian Sinclair. He was arrested Monday for allegedly interfering with the investigation but was later cited and released.
Three vehicles connected to him have already been seized. And we are learning that he has had more than one restraining order against him.
Eric, what do authorities have to say about this individual and his past, particularly regarding the restraining orders? And I have to stress, this man is not considered a suspect. You know, everybody`s going to have a past, and you talk to people. Things are going to come up. Doesn`t mean he`s involved. But what do you know about this guy, Eric?
FIRPO: OK. Well, he has had a couple of restraining orders against him, including his own parents took out a restraining order in 2004 against the guy because -- and they said -- they, you know, said in the form that they filled out that he was a drug abuser and an alcoholic.
And another restraining order from a woman who also lives in the mobile home park the year before, you know, described a very violent and abusive guy.
So -- but, you know, getting back to the child porn thing real quick, you know, the Tracy Police Department is the one that, in this case has, I think, is mostly developing the child porn leads. Because they have got a guy who spends a lot of time on the Internet posing as little girls. They bought software that masks the Tracy Police Department`s I.P. address.
And he`ll go and set up phony MySpace and Facebook accounts and talk to child porn people, you know, posing as some girl that they`re trying to lure. And there have been a couple of high-profile arrests in the last year or so here. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s interesting. I was wondering how they were finding out who was looking at child porn.
FIRPO: Yes, that`s how they do it. And so they`ve spent -- you know, the software was pretty expensive. And so part of his full-time job at the -- he`s one of two guys who, you know, look into child sex crimes. And he does spend a lot of time on the Internet posing as girls.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`ll get to more of that in just a second.
Everybody sit tight. So much more to analyze in the desperate search for Sandra Cantu.
And another frantic search under way for Haleigh Cummings. But now the focus shifts to Misty and her connection to a mystery man named Greg. Is there even a connection? I`ll examine the conflicting reports.
And then private eye Jim Hoover makes an earth-shattering claim in the Casey Anthony case. Did somebody have inside information on Caylee`s death? Find out in just a bit.
But first, cops sift through hundreds of tips in the search for Sandra Cantu. Here`s her mom begging, pleading for her safe return.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CHAVEZ, SANDRA CANTU`S MOTHER: Please. Whoever has her, please bring her home. Please. I miss my little girl. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGIE CHAVEZ, SANDRA CANTU`S AUNT: There`s no way she`d run away. This is a happy little girl. She`s 8 years old. Where would she run away to?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Friends and family of Sandra Cantu stunned by her disappearance. It has been one week since the 8-year-old disappeared and still no suspects. I am back discussing this case with my expert panel. Let`s go right out to private eye Vinny Parco.
Vinny, few realize what an enormous undertaking a search like this is. We`re talking waterways. Just going through the local trash dump is a monstrous assignment. And then there are all the interviews. There`s something like 97 homes in this trailer community. How do the local cops manage this kind of massive effort?
VINNY PARCO, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, one of the problems you have is that these people have to be re-interviewed. Because sometimes a police officer or a detective will interview someone, and then another detective will interview them and get another piece of information. So it`s a tedious process, but it has to be done.
And that`s where good supervisory officers are very important to collate all this information and to put everything together. That`s the hardest part of this job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would think it would take hundreds and hundreds of people. Do they bring in law enforcement from other communities or it kind of a...?
PARCO: Sometimes they do. But I don`t know if anybody realizes this. There seems to be a pattern. Why is only little girls missing in different states?
Now, I investigated an Amber Alert of National Association of Man Boy Lovers. And they -- they target only little boys under age 14. Is it possible there`s another organization that targets only little girls?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know.
MURPHY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I certainly know there`s -- Wendy, there`s a huge problem with basically pervs, call it a -- call it what is it, targeting -- targeting children.
PARCO: The problem...
MURPHY: The most valuable child porn in this country...
PARCO: Right.
MURPHY: ... is very young, very cute little girls. The younger, the cuter, the more expensive the material. And this business, this multibillion-dollar business knows that quite well.
PARCO: She`s right. It`s a tremendous business. A lot of it comes from Europe also, by the way.
FINDLING: I mean, not only is it a tremendous business, but you`re dealing with a condition, a psychiatric condition which has no known treatment and no known cure. You have these people, and they will offend again and again and again. And we`ve tried chemical castration. We`ve tried psychotherapy. We`ve tried to treat underlying psychiatric conditions, and it does not work. What needs to happen is they need to go to jail when they`re caught and then...
PARCO: And be castrated.
FINDLING: No. Then they need to have the reporting system, which we have in place. And I need to make the point that the reporting system does have a tier one, tier two, and tier three. So the tier three, these are the really hard-core offenders who have to report for the rest of their life every three months where they are. And this weeds out the tier ones who are really not that severe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. And...
MURPHY: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Forget the tiers. Let`s put them on an island, OK? Then we won`t need to...
FINDLING: You cannot...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The point is that...
FINDLING: You cannot take a 19-year-old who has sex with his 14-year- old girlfriend consensually and lump him with a 40-year-old who...
MURPHY: They`re not on the registry.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second. I`ve got -- I`ve got to move on, because we have other characters who are coming to the surface of this case. There`s this 60-year-old man by the name of Frank Wohler. He admitted to kissing Sandra two years ago when she was just 6 years old. Listen to a reporter ask about this incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK WOHLER, ADMITTED TO KISSING SANDRA: I don`t know anything about her disappearance at all. I`ve known her. I knew her in 2006 when I first moved here. I don`t know anything about it. I wish I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they talk to you about that incident that happened in 2006?
WOHLER: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you, in fact, kiss her on the lips?
WOHLER: Yes, I did. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
WOHLER: To be nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. He kissed her on the lips to be nice. Before we go any further, this man, Wohler, is not a suspect in this case. It`s very important to point that out.
But let me get back to Dr. Dale Archer. What do you make of that explanation? Could it have just been a moment where he did something inappropriate because he wasn`t thinking?
ARCHER: You know, I mean, it`s hard to deal with comments just on one statement like that. But, boy, it doesn`t sound good. You know? It doesn`t sound good.
MURPHY: Good answer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean, but...
MURPHY: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? If this...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is an apparently otherwise upstanding member of the community and I think...
MURPHY: Obviously not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... it`s a moment of very, very bad judgment. But let`s bring in the reporter again.
Eric Firpo, what do we know about this particular individual? And what did police say about him?
FIRPO: Well, police aren`t saying anything about him. But we know that he`s a martial arts instructor and has been in town since 1992. and they`ve searched his business. They took a couple of DVDs with photos on them. They took a cell phone. They probably took some other stuff. He didn`t really -- all he said that they took were DVDs and...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are going to be people who come up. Yes, there are going to be people who come up. And it doesn`t mean they have anything to do with this disappearance. You know, people don`t live perfect lives, and they make mistakes.
Very briefly, Eric, tell us about Sandra`s father. And he`s there, but he`s not considered a suspect, right?
FIRPO: Well, they don`t say who is a suspect and who isn`t a suspect. Her father is going to the P.D. again to talk to detectives, but they say - - they said today that he`s there just to find out more information about his daughter, and they`ll ask him more questions. He works in Southern California east of San Diego, lives in Mexico. And whether he`s a suspect is unclear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, he says he has absolutely nothing to do with this. he`s supporting his daughter.
I want to thank my excellent panel.
Switching gears to the death of Anna Nicole Smith. I`ll speak to Ken Baker of E! News about his exclusive interview with Smith`s dad.
Shocking news in the Madonna adoption case. A judge rejects a petition to adopt an orphan girl. Is this guy crazy? Find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the spotlight tonight, new allegations from Anna Nicole Smith`s father, Donald Hogan. Howard K. Stern, Smith`s attorney and companion, is due back in court next week on charges of allegedly furnishing Smith with prescription meds.
Today, Smith`s estranged father told "E!" exclusively he blames Stern for her death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD HOGAN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S FATHER: I blame Howard. I blame him totally for her death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: At the time of her death, Florida investigators found 11 different prescriptions in her hotel room. None were made out to the blond bombshell. Eight were allegedly in Howard K. Stern`s name.
So the big question tonight: will Anna Nicole Smith`s father, Donald Hogan, file a wrongful death lawsuit against Stern?
Joining me with the details on his exclusive interview with Anna Nicole`s father, "E!" executive news editor Ken Baker.
Ken, thanks for joining us. What did Anna`s dad tell "E!"?
KEN BAKER, EXECUTIVE NEWS EDITOR, "E!": Well, Jane, what he told me was actually a real surprise to me. I went down to his house in Texas to talk about -- just remembering Anna Nicole. I sit down at his dining room table, and he looks at me. And he goes off on Howard K. Stern and says how he totally blames him for the death.
And not only that: that what he`s looking at doing right now is, a la the Goldman family did with O.J., is teaming up with Anna`s biological mother, Virgie Arthur and filing a wrongful death claim against Howard K. Stern. Because as he said in that video, he squarely puts the blame on Howard K. Stern for enabling her and allowing this to happen.
Quite an exclusive. Let`s listen to more of what Anna Nicole Smith`s dad, Donald Hogan, told "E!"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOGAN: I blame him for bringing her the stuff, for not helping her get off of it. In my book, if someone O.D.`s, you bring them the drugs, aren`t you liable? I think he made a lot of bad decisions in his life. And I think it`s fixing to come back and haunt him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ken, I want to find out what Howard K. Stern`s side of the story is. And after all, Donald Hogan admits he was estranged from Anna Nicole for years. If he does file a wrongful death lawsuit, aren`t people likely to say, "Hey, couldn`t he just be out for the money?"
BAKER: Well, I did ask him that. Well, you know, a lot of people are going to be suspicious that you want to file a wrongful death claim. Are you in it for the money? And that guy looked at me, and he said, "I am not interested in getting one dime from Howard K. Stern. I just want him to pay the price and for justice to be served."
And you know what? I believed him. And I think that clearly what`s happening here is that Howard K. Stern is in a heap of trouble. He`s going to be arraigned next Tuesday in L.A. court on those charges of conspiring with the two doctors to supply prescriptions illegally to Anna Nicole.
And I think that what`s happening now is Anna Nicole`s family is going to sit back and watch what happens with these criminal proceedings and see if they want to actually go forward with the civil claim for wrongful death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And briefly, Howard K. Stern has always said he loved Anna Nicole more than anyone in the world and would never do anything to harm her.
BAKER: Well, I think that people who were around Anna and around Howard when she was alive know that that is true. He would do anything and that he did love her.
I think what people are saying, the critics are saying now, is that he just took that way too far and perhaps had a severe lapse in judgment, if these allegations are true that he provided her medication illegally.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Ken, thank you for that great exclusive.
Controversial private eye Jim Hoover makes an unbelievable claim in the Casey Anthony case. You don`t want to miss it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: The frantic search for Haleigh Cummings continues as more questions are raised about Misty. Who was in the home when little Haleigh vanished? Could her allege relationship with a mystery man named Greg hold the key to finding Haleigh? I`ll examine the conflicting reports.
And an absolute stunner in the Madonna adoption case; a judge in Malawi rejects the superstar`s petition to adopt the girl from the impoverished country. The reason, it`s in the girl`s best interest to stay in the orphanage. Oh, really? Are they crazy? I`ll get the story behind the story.
A seismic stunner in the Casey Anthony case as controversial private eye Jim Hoover makes unbelievable claims, details in just a moment.
But first, the frantic search for Haleigh Cummings continues as more questions are raised about Misty Croslin. The seventeen-year-old bride of Haleigh`s dad Ron, says she was home when little Haleigh vanished.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hear anything?
MISTY CROSLIN, WIFE OF RONALD CUMMINGS: I didn`t hear anything at all. Nothing, if I heard something, I would have got up and wouldn`t have let them take her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police have interviewed Misty numerous times. She claims she passed a polygraph test. She is not considered a suspect. Yet, police also say her story has many inconsistencies.
The attorney for the missing girl`s mother says she has reason to believe that Misty`s alleged relationship with a mystery man named Greg who happens to have a long history of drug arrests could hold the key to finding little Haleigh.
Joining me: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and law professor, at New England Law Boston; Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; and by phone Jared Halpern, a reporter with WOKV AM 690 and 106.5 FM.
Jared, what is the very latest in this case?
JARED HALPERN, WOKV AM 690, 106.5 FM REPORTER: Well, the very latest is really back to square one as far as investigators are concerned. They really have made very little headway, at least publicly in the search for little Haleigh Cummings, going on now two months.
Of course a lot of attention every time the police make any sort of statement or do any sort of interview revolves around Misty Croslin and what she may or may not know. Again, police think she probably holds the key at least in solving this case. And it makes some sense she was after all the last person admittedly to see this little girl before the disappearance.
But so far, police have said very little about what she`s told them, what they`re telling her. And so far have not named her a person of interest, a suspect or named anybody a suspect or a person of interest in Haleigh`s disappearance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact the sheriff said just this week that some of the best minds in law enforcement have talked to Misty, who is 17, and they can`t get a consistent story out of her about what happened that night, which is pretty astounding, Wendy Murphy, given that she says she was at home...
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... in a very small doublewide trailer.
MURPHY: Yes. I mean, if you could only get a conviction on inconsistencies, she`d be in jail. But that`s not enough. And it could well be that she`s just an idiot. Maybe she doesn`t know anything and she`s not a co-conspirator in whatever happened. Maybe she`s just a dope.
And she`s young. And we`ve all seen her. And there`s something wrong with her. I don`t know if she knows more. But I think she does. And what I worry about is why, if she says she cares about this child, even one iota, why isn`t she agreeing to do a reenactment of the last moments of her time with this child? Why?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right.
Now Kim Picazio, Crystal Sheffield`s lawyer, claimed on this show just this week that Greg, this mystery man, knew details about Haleigh`s home. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does he know Misty? Is he a friend of Misty`s?
KIM PICAZIO, CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD`S ATTORNEY: He confirmed an intimate relationship with Misty, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, whoa. Ok.
PICAZIO: And he confirmed many details about the household that we have been waiting to hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
PICAZIO: And we have subsequently given all of those details to police. Maybe he told them in the first place...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
PICAZIO: ... maybe he didn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say once again we have no independent confirmation of anything that Kim Picazio said. She is the attorney for the missing girl`s mother. This is her investigation conducted for the missing girl`s mom.
Putnam County Police will only say they have interviewed a man named Greg, nothing more. We`ve tried to reach that guy numerous times. We`ve also tried to reach Misty without success. We`d love to hear their sides of the story.
But Wendy, what do you make of this man, who the attorney for the missing child`s mother keeps bringing up, given that we`ve done some checking. We found that this particular individual has -- not only lives in the area, but has a long history of drug arrests but very few convictions.
MURPHY: Well, let`s speculate because that`s all we can do with this information.
Let`s assume she was involved in some of kind of relationship with him and let`s assume that she has a drug problem and he`s connected in some way to the supplying of that material.
Is it possible that this child became a pawn of some sort or payment? It wouldn`t be the first time a little kid was used in that way, either to pressure some payment that`s due or as payment to ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right I have to jump ...
DREW FINDLING, ATLANTA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, Jane, can I...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling again, we have no knowledge of -- we have no knowledge of that. But it is weird that...
MURPHY: I`m speculating...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... that drugs seem to be a backdrop of this entire case. Drew?
FINDLING: Well, I think that what`s a backdrop is that there`s a dysfunction in this household. You know, I listened patiently a few minutes ago when we had a lot of hyperbole about pedophiles and throwing them in jails.
But I look at three cases and even a new case right now where there is a common bond. You look at the Anthony case and you have the dysfunction of this girl, Casey, that didn`t want her child, that`s living with her parents; clearly had no parenting skills.
Now you look at the Haleigh Cummings case. She`s living with her father because they gave custody to her father. Her father leaves them with what should be an 11th-grade girl that he`s now married to.
And now we even have a new house with all of those kids living with family in one household.
And there`s a common bond, and it has a lot to do with socio-economic, it has a lot to do with parenting, it has to do with not pedophilia, but just psychological care and well-being of children and their parents.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it has to do with young people having kids, kids having kids. To a certain degree I think it`s part of the big problem. And we, as a nation, have to look at that ...
FINDLING: That`s it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... huge issue of kids who are not grown up themselves who haven`t worked out their own stuff, having kids. It`s a problem.
FINDLING: That`s a great point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to leave it right there. I could talk about that case all night.
Thank you so much. And Jared, thank you to you for your great reporting.
Just 70 miles from Satsuma, shocking revelations in the Casey Anthony case: the depositions continue today as Casey`s attorney, Jose Baez, grills Sheriff`s investigators. One involved in the investigation as to why meter reader Roy Kronk`s tips way back in August turned up no remains.
And fall-outs from yesterday`s depositions continue. Former Anthony family private eye, Jim Hoover, questioned for three grueling hours. He revealed startling details about the day he and another Anthony family private eye, Dominic Casey, searched a wooded area. That is the very same area where a month later, little Caylee`s remains were found.
Just what did Hoover tell Baez?
And in the meantime, Casey continues to treat herself just right in jail. Jail records show the accused murderer has been snacking on Pop Tarts and Peanut M&Ms. Casey might need some comfort food on Monday.
Prosecutors are expected to drop another document bomb. More investigative material is going to go out to the public. So Monday is going to be a big day.
So many ISSUES. Back with me: Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor; Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney and joining us by phone, Rozzie Franco, reporter with WFLA. Rozzie, what is the very latest?
ROZZIE FRANCO, WFLA REPORTER: Jane, Casey Anthony`s defense team deposing more key players tied to the murder case today. Orange County Deputy Richard Cain is being questioned by the defense about his role in responding to the scene where slain toddler Caylee Anthony`s remains were found back in August of last year.
We learned before Caylee`s remains were found, this deputy quickly shrugged off the tip in that specific area and told the tipster nothing was there. Now lead defense attorney Jose Baez has spoken seeing his questioning toward the actions by that particular Orange County Sheriff, which was Deputy Richard Cain.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. So what I think is pretty fascinating about this, Wendy Murphy, is that obviously the defense is going to say that body wasn`t there back in August.
An investigator, a deputy went there to look for the body. Roy Kronk, this meter reader, who had just started on the job, called numerous times and said, check it out. There`s something fishy over there you`ve got to look at it. And they finally did and they found nothing.
So the defense is going to claim, "Hey the body wasn`t there." They`re probably going to claim the body was moved there after Casey Anthony was in jail to try to prove their contention that she couldn`t have put the body there.
MURPHY: Yes, by the boogey man that has yet to be identified. It would be one thing if there was a lot of doubt about Casey`s involvement. You could perhaps have a plan B suspect and suggest that they dumped the body there. But you can`t just make that stuff up and expect the jury to believe it when there`s so much forensic evidence tying Casey to at least the disposition of the body and that we know it was in the trunk and so forth.
But you know, the notion that they`re going to make mud out of the "when did the body get there, how come there was all this tip stuff going on," the important thing is Casey Anthony, when she heard about a body in that location, freaked out. When she heard about another little girl`s body earlier at a different location, she didn`t freak out.
The jury will hear that. The jury will know that that`s more significant than whatever the defense can do about the fact that these investigators didn`t find the body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Drew Findling, can`t the defense...
FINDLING: You know, first of all, if they find her child -- it can go both ways -- if they find her child ok she could be panicking about that.
I think there`s a far greater issue. And I guess I`m caught up with the theme of all these cases having something in common.
And that is, what really jumps at me about this private investigator issue, is this new fad where third parties who aren`t suspects in the case, whether it`s the Anthony parents or the mom of Haleigh Cummings, have these volunteer lawyers who get investigators, none of whom make any money but are grandstanding and using this for publicity to do their own third-party investigations that serve no purpose other than to muddy the waters for the prosecution, the defense. And all it`s about is grandstanding at the expense of both the prosecution and the defense. Because I could tell you...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. You`re talking about Jim Hoover...
MURPHY: Me too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... this private investigator who so-called volunteered for the Anthony family and has turned into their worst nightmare, spilling all sorts of ugly rumors.
Thank you so much to my great panel for their insights.
An alleged stalker busts into Jamie Foxx`s hotel room, but the star fights him off. I will have this totally crazy story.
And somehow, a judge in an African country rejects Madonna`s adoption petition. Are they crazy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Madonna`s adoption bid rejected by a judge in Malawi. I will try to find out what went wrong.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
Jamie Foxx survives a terrifying encounter with an alleged stalker. Foxx was in a hotel room in Philadelphia when a man stormed in, claiming to be Beyonce`s producer. The star actor got into a grappling match with 49- year-old Willy Brown and was able to toss him out of the room.
When cops arrived, Brown had already fled the scene. And then on Tuesday, and this is nine days after the first incident, Foxx`s security detail spotted Brown -- you`re looking at him right here -- a few blocks from the hotel. This time, cops nabbed him for burglary, stalking and a slew of other charges.
Glad they got him.
That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."
An outrageous outcome for Madonna tonight, a judge in Malawi has rejected - - that`s right -- rejected her petition to adopt a 3-year-old orphan from the impoverished country. The ruling came as a shock to Madonna watchers and adoption advocates.
All expected a decision in favor of the wealthy, successful, accomplished, international superstar.
What about the child herself? Instead of going home with Madonna and her family, Mercy James, what a name, Mercy James will live in an orphanage.
Officials say it`s in the child`s best interest. Some are even calling it a triumph.
I wonder what David Banda thinks about that. He is the son Madonna adopted from the very same orphanage back in 2006. David would have been Mercy`s brother.
Is there a serious lack of clear thinking here, which is a nice way of saying, are they crazy? Or is there a hidden agenda at play?
Let`s go straight out to my fantastic panel: Jennifer Hartstein, clinical psychologist, Kim Serafin; senior editor of "In Touch Weekly" and Joe Soll, psychotherapist and author of "Adoption: Healing a Path to Recovery."
Now, Joe, I understand you were also opposed to this adoption. So you`re actually contending it is better for a child to live in an orphanage, in an impoverished African country, where the life expectancy for a female is 43 years, than with Madonna and her kids, including a child named David who is the same age and was adopted from the very same orphanage?
JOE SOLL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: What if we gave resources to that village in Malawi...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s doing that.
SOLL: So that the child could stay in the village, give the money to have better education, better health care, and let her stay with her family and her culture.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s not with her family, she`s in an orphanage.
SOLL: I know, she should get out of the orphanage and stay with her grandparents...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But she`s not, she`s an orphan and you know what? If these grandparents didn`t have her in her home, then obviously they don`t care enough to have her in the home.
SOLL: We don`t know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s in an orphanage.
SOLL: Get her out of the orphanage by giving money to the village and have someone raise her. And let her stay with her family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But first of all Madonna gave money to this village. She has created a day care center there. She established an entire charity around this area. She`s establishing health care programs and educational programs. She`s trying to build a school.
Kim Serafin, I just find this absolutely outrageous. I mean, if you look at David, the little boy she adopted in 2006, he seems to be doing very well. He`s got family. He`s going to get a wonderful education. And all of these opportunities and they deprive her, this little girl, of this opportunity to live with Madonna?
SOLL: Do you know what the loss of one`s culture is?
KIM SERAFIN, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, I think people were surprised. And you know, one thing -- that the judge apparently said this is not so much that we think that this girl should be with her grandmother, but we don`t want to set a dangerous precedent is what the judge is saying with this residency requirement.
We basically don`t want people coming in and we don`t want human trafficking of young kids. So that is what the judge is saying.
But there had been a lot of criticism saying, well, she should be with her grandmother and her family. Now, this young girl`s mother died when she was 14 like a lot of orphans in Malawi; it`s one of the poorest countries in the world. Two million orphans and one million of them have lost at least one parent if not both from AIDS.
So this is a situation where the grandmother apparently does not have the money to take care of this young girl. Now, Madonna`s lawyer has filed a notice for appeal and, of course, Madonna is fighting this because she really does cares about this country. As you mentioned she has put in a lot of money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer, I just want to jump in.
JENNIFER HARTSTEIN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the reasons that was cited was that she`s a single mother. Now, 28 percent of U.S. households with children are headed by single parents.
HARTSTEIN: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is that the most absurd excuse for not giving this child a chance you`ve ever heard?
HARTSTEIN: Especially in a situation where you`re giving her to someone who can afford to have lots of people help her with her children. I mean, the fact is that a single parent doesn`t mean that she can`t afford to take care of her and really make sure that she`s got everything she needs.
We`ve seen her be successful with this other little boy. And so why wouldn`t she be equally as successful of taking this girl into her home? It really doesn`t make sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe, Joe, I mean, I don`t get it, I really don`t get it.
SOLL: The loss of one`s culture, one`s country, one`s heritage, one`s family is a horror show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: People move all the time. People move from Mexico to the United States. They move from Canada to the United States.
SOLL: But if they do it willingly. If they do it --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s a child.
SOLL: This is a child who will lose her family and her culture; the family that she has.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re a nation of immigrants...
SERAFIN: And her family of origin is not involved.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... my mother came from Puerto Rico. My father`s family is from Ireland. Everyone survived. I mean, people move.
SOLL: But they came willingly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not always. When you`re a kid and your dad or your mom says we`re moving to another country.
SOLL: Okay and it`s a loss. It`s a loss. I cannot tell you how many adopted people I`ve met who have said I wish I grew up in China with my impoverished family rather than losing them. I hear this on a regular basis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But maybe that`s because they never actually did grow with their impoverished family and had they done so they might have a totally different attitude toward it. The life expectancy of this child has now dropped phenomenally. She will live 43 years on average if she`s lucky, she`ll make it to her 44th birthday.
SOLL: What we if we give money her grandparents or raise her in her country.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We can write a lot of scripts, you know.
We`ll be back in a moment with more scripts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNDULE MWAKASUNGURA, MALAWI HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISION: I feel that Madonna is behaving like a bully because she has money. She has the status. Using her profile to try to manipulate the procedures; to try to -- fasten the process. That is unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is a Malawi human right`s commission official.
Jennifer Hartstein as a psychologist, do you see jealousy here? Do you see that people are often threatened by a woman who is a single parent but who is very self-empowered? This is not a woman who was born into wealth. She worked at Dunkin` Donuts when she was starting out in showbiz. She made herself.
JENNIFER HARTSTEIN, PSYCHOLOGIST: She did make herself. And I think there could be jealousy. I think there could be concern that she`s doing this for her own gain and there could be all sorts of worries.
But the bottom line is she has the ability to really care for this child. She has the ability to expose this child to whatever culture she wants to expose her to including her culture of origin. And in fact that she`s demonstrated to be an excellent mother despite touring, despite having all sorts of business ventures, she`s really invested in her children. And to not to allow her to adopt this little girl could really potentially be a tragedy for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe (INAUDIBLE), I just don`t understand where you`re coming from because we have tens of millions of orphans in the world and they need help. I mean, every 5.4 seconds, a child in this world dies of starvation and malnutrition.
SOLL: I`m not suggesting that this child be left in an orphanage, not at all. I think that she should be taken out of the orphanage and raised by her family in her country of origin?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But when you have -- it`s such a poor country and you have these orphanages for a reason, it`s because that`s not happening. And you can`t, you know, make everybody in that country take a magic pill and suddenly do that.
They`re poor. They`ve got their own problems. They`re suffering. There`s malnutrition. There`s hunger. There`s disease. How are we supposed to deal with these tens of millions of orphan around the world?
SOLL: The United States gives aid to countries for all sorts of reasons except this one reason and I think we should give money to other countries to help them keep their kids where they belong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you there. I don`t think it`s an either/or situation, however, Kim Serafin. I think the U.S. should do more to help these orphans around the world.
KIM SERAFIN, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Absolutely and you know, Madonna does have her "Raising Malawi" charity so she does have a connection to the culture. And the fact is, people look at what celebrities do and they do follow their example. When Angelina Jolie adopted from Africa, a lot of people followed and I hope this doesn`t deter other people from going to Africa to adopt children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hope you are right. You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.
Thank you, fabulous panel.
END
