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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Arrest Tapes Released
Aired April 06, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Secret police files from inside the tot mom murder investigation in the last hours released. Tonight, caught on video, tot mom at the moment she is arrested for the brutal murder of her 2-year-old little girl. Tot mom is calm. She`s cool. She`s collected. We see her adjusting her hair, her clothing, her nails while cops aren`t watching. Did she think the cops care about her hair and make-up?
Well, at first, she tells cops she wants to help, she wants to talk to them. But of course, that never happens. Tot mom swears Caylee`s still alive. She says it over and over, that she, quote, "feels it." Tot mom spouting off her rights like she`s a con law professor.
Hundreds of new documents released, videotapes, audiotapes, interviews, computer searches, private cell phone photos of tot mom and little Caylee. Also caught on videotape, tot mom`s brother, Lee Anthony, as tot mom`s former lover goes undercover with a wire, catching brother Lee talking about the smell in tot mom`s car, her history of lies and pointing the finger at both ex-lovers. And multiple computer searches emerge for "how to" recipes for chloroform, neck breaking, household weapons. Plus, the cops -- the cop fired for hiding his secret affair with tot mom admits he lied.
And tonight, exclusive. The Anthony family private eye who dined with the Anthonys at the luxury Ritz-Carlton the day police informed them Caylee`s body found, the same private eye investigating the spot where Caylee was found long before police got there. Why is that? He is with us tonight live. He is answering your questions. Tonight, as the evidence mounts, will prosecutors reconsider the death penalty for tot mom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any interest in helping us?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`ve had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. Unfortunately, my hands were literally tied and I was put in a position where someone`s trying to trick a confession out of me...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t want...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... and that`s not going to happen.
(INAUDIBLE) questions -- are there cameras in all of the rooms or just some?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: I feel that I do have the right, with invoking my right to counsel, that I should be able to speak with my attorney before I provide any sort of answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) we Mirandized her (INAUDIBLE) at 4:22. She invoked her exasperation just the same as ours. She used that as one of the opportunities to speak with law enforcement face to face. If you guys are interested in doing that, let`s get that done. Quit the finger pointing, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to think, does she really do it only to better herself, or does she even just say white lies just to do it? I`m really trying to think now because sometimes it seems like she lies just to lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I, as a mom, I know in my gut -- there`s a feeling that a parent knows (INAUDIBLE) about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, her presence. I know that she`s alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right. You feel it.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Secret police files from inside the tot mom murder investigation in the last hours released. Tonight on video, tot mom at the moment she is arrested for the brutal murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: We have said...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a possibility today?
CASEY ANTHONY: ... from the very beginning, if law enforcement would like to speak with myself, he would like to be present. I would like to have my attorney present.
(INAUDIBLE) announcing that, you know, there`s going to be a grand jury. Obviously, my name was thrown out, so they knew who the grand jury was for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who threw your name out?
CASEY ANTHONY: The media said that it was from an inside source.
I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence, which I guess is my point in all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say you`ll take this as far as you need to prove your innocence, what do you mean?
CASEY ANTHONY: Serving the indictment today and the warrant for my arrest, everything else -- I`m not running.
(INAUDIBLE) people are only getting their information from the Nancy Grace (INAUDIBLE) or "People" or, you know, stuff like that. Are you kidding me?
ANTHONY RUSCIANO, POLICE OFFICER: We had sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had sex. And where did you guys have sex?
RUSCIANO: My apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your apartment. OK. That would have been -- when would that have been, during January?
RUSCIANO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you know where her daughter was at that time?
RUSCIANO: Absolutely not.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I`m just worried that the police are not following up Caylee as a missing person, and they`re trying to build a case against my sister for something else, like for a homicide or for whatever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, reporter and anchor, standing there at the Florida jailhouse where tot mom is. Mark Williams, this is an incredible treasure trove for the state that has just been released. And what`s so amazing to me -- everybody, take a look at your screen right now. There you see tot mom. When the cops walk out of the room, she`s fixing her hair, she`s checking her nails, she`s adjusting her shirt. Yes, that`s a camera up there. There you go. Let`s make sure we don`t have any chipped nails and everything`s perfect. OK. Oh, yes, that`s right, my daughter. I was just indicted for her murder.
It seems like that is not even crossing her mind, Mark Williams.
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR AND REPORTER: No, Nancy Grace, she isn`t. I mean, she went in there after she was arrested on those first-degree murder charges, she fidgets with her nails. She`s lighthearted with the officers involved, both the Orange County sheriff`s investigators and FBI`s special agent, Nick Savage. She does look around. She kind of primps. She kind of does this.
But you know, in her interview with these gentlemen on that day, she`s not worried a bit about Caylee. She`s worried more about the media. She`s even mad that grand jury testimony leaked out to the media, that her father basically said that he didn`t believe Casey all the time.
Also released today, Nancy, undercover video with Tony Lazzaro and Lee Anthony, Casey`s brother, and they talk about the smell in the car and how Lee can`t trust Casey anymore.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to tot mom. This is at the time of her arrest for the murder. This video has just been released in the last hours. Also with us tonight, taking your calls, the Anthony private eye is speaking to us in a primetime exclusive. He is not afraid of the bright lights of a camera and to answer your questions. But first, take a listen to Casey Anthony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You anxious about today at all?
CASEY ANTHONY: I have been. I mean, this is something, honestly, I`ve been preparing for from the beginning just because of words that were directly spoken from Yuri Melich and also from Sergeant Allen. They were saying that this is what they were planning on doing from the very beginning, from that first day. So they wrote me off within the first couple hours. So...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if that`s true.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, that was the direct words that they pretty much gave to myself, and even they said that to my parents. So you know, I`m not trying to say something derogatory toward someone, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. OK. We`re just talking.
CASEY ANTHONY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just chatting.
CASEY ANTHONY: That was the only time they ever made any effort to try to talk to me one on one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it was kind of difficult.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, it`s difficult considering...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, considering, obviously, in light of everything that`s going on and the fact that you`ve been arrested for other things, it makes it a little more difficult to sit down and talk with you, not that we haven`t wanted to.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
Just a random question. Are there cameras in all of the rooms or...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no freaking clue. I`ve never been in this part of the building!
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I know that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So my guess would be yes.
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s what I was thinking, too. Well, my mom wasn`t aware that there was a camera in the room, I guess, when she met with Melich and I forget who else in the big interviews that were released to the media, and she was infuriated. You would think that that`s something that, you know, you should be told. But you don`t have to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law is the law.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining me here in the studio tonight in Manhattan, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." You know, John David ran a fever today, and I was out in the street in a T-shirt covered in what he threw up, trying to push people out of the way to get a cab, OK? How can she be so calm? She`s just learned she is indicted for her daughter`s murder!
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, as unimaginable as it is to you, she wants to look cute. This is the same reason she stole the checks from Amy Huizenga and went on a shopping spree after the death -- or the loss of her daughter. This is the same reason that when the detectives first questioned her, remember how she gets all flirtatious at the end and says, yes, just trying to help you guys out? This is the same reason there are so many pictures of herself dancing on a stripper pole. It`s all about how she looks, not about her daughter.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, taking your calls live, is one of the Anthony private investigators, Mr. Jim Hoover. He`s a former private eye for the Anthony family. He also provided security for them.
Mr. Hoover, thank you for being with us. We`ve heard so much about you. It`s great to actually finally speak to you. And thank you for taking the calls from the viewers. They`re already firing up the lines.
Mr. Hoover, how is it that you and Dominic Casey end up at the spot, the same area where Caylee`s disposed of, before police ever find out about it? How did that happen? Why were you guys there?
JIM HOOVER, FORMER PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR FOR ANTHONY FAMILY: Mr. Anthony (SIC) had told me on November the 15th at about 8:30 in the morning that he had a tip and that he knew where Caylee was. And...
GRACE: Go ahead.
HOOVER: Oh, OK. And I said, Let`s go get her. He said, We can`t, she`s dead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d like to identify myself (INAUDIBLE) And you guys -- you signed this. You want your attorney present.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve had conversations and you`ve agreed...
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... because -- express that to me again so I have a full understanding before (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: We have discussed before that we have no problem sitting down together (INAUDIBLE) and speaking with law enforcement or listening to all the questions that you have and then discussing it, and then we go from there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And that`s -- there`s been no success with that so far (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s taken us up on that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we`re going to open that window right now.
CASEY ANTHONY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And hopefully, we can make something happen because, ultimately, I think we have the same interest, finding your daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any interest in helping us?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. Unfortunately, my hands were literally tied, and I was put in a position where someone`s trying to trick a confession out of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t want...
CASEY ANTHONY: And that`s not going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, don`t go there. I don`t want -- you know as far as how we have to do things, and I would want to do things aboveboard and straightforward. I would want to read you your rights, Mirandize you. Mr. Baez, I`m sure, has gone through that thoroughly with you, coached you on what to say, which is fine. That`s his right. That`s your right. But I as a law enforcement officer still am afforded the right to approach you as a suspect. I`m not going to sugar-coat it. That`s one thing you`ll never get with me is a mind game.
CASEY ANTHONY: I appreciate that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. I don`t know who they think is playing the mind games, but we see tot mom on video at the time of her arrest for the murder of her 2-year-old child calm, cool, collected, adjusting her nails, her hair, her make-up, her shirt. We are taking your calls live.
And tonight, a very special guest is with us. Private eye Jim Hoover joining us out of Tampa, Florida. He`s joining us exclusively, and you all know, all of you legal eagles, that Jim Hoover is the Anthony private investigator -- he also performed security for them -- who went with private eye Dominic Casey to the location where this child`s remains were triple-bagged and thrown away like she was trash.
Mr. Hoover, we started playing the music as you were speaking when we went to commercial break. Explain to me again why you and Dominic Casey, the other P.I., were at that scene where little Caylee`s remains are in a bag long before cops ever knew anything about it.
HOOVER: Well, as I said, you know, he had called me the night before and invited me to come down to do some bodyguard work for the Anthonys (INAUDIBLE) meet and greet. And when I got there, he asked me to go into the office. At that time, he asked me to have a seat and he told me that he had something to tell me. I asked him what it was. He said, I know where Caylee is. And I`m thinking she was alive. I said, Fine, let`s go get her. He said, We can`t. She`s dead.
GRACE: So he told you that to your face?
HOOVER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: And this is Dominic Casey?
HOOVER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Did he ever reveal who told him where the body was?
HOOVER: No, ma`am.
GRACE: Mr. Hoover, how long have you been a private eye?
HOOVER: Since 1975.
GRACE: Did you tell police this when they interviewed you?
HOOVER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Did they believe you knew who gave the tip?
HOOVER: Well, you know, I just told the same thing. I asked Dominic several times who it was. It`s on the videotape. He was on the cell phone, you know, various times.
GRACE: When you guys went out to the scene, what was Dominic Casey saying about looking for the body?
HOOVER: It was pretty somber. On the way out to the site, we had talked about very briefly just what we would do if we did find her.
GRACE: And you know, Mr. Hoover -- with us, everyone, private eye out of Tampa, Florida, Jim Hoover, who worked for the Anthony family. You do know that Dominic Casey is saying he was led there by a psychic?
HOOVER: That`s one of the stories, yes.
GRACE: What are the other stories?
HOOVER: Well, originally, I believe he said he was talking to his daughter.
GRACE: Right.
HOOVER: I believe he also said he talked to a friend of Casey`s at one point.
GRACE: Right, that said they used to hang out there as teenagers, as children. But why would a private eye go to where a grown woman used to hang out as a kid when she was in elementary and high school? For what?
HOOVER: That`s a question you`d have to ask Mr. Casey, I`m afraid.
GRACE: When you guys left the scene that day, Mr. Hoover, did Mr. Casey say anything about not finding the body?
HOOVER: Well, you realize we went to the woods, but we also went to a house and searched there. And we did go back to the woods again, and then we left there and we went to meet George and Cindy, some people from the Kids Find Network.
GRACE: When you went to go meet George and Cindy, did they know you had been at this site looking for the body?
HOOVER: I hadn`t said anything. I don`t know if Dominic did or not.
GRACE: Did it come up during the conversation?
HOOVER: Not with me. No, ma`am.
GRACE: Where did you go with the Anthonys?
HOOVER: Well, they were already at a site in Orlando where they were selling T-shirts for the Kids Find Network. People were coming down, saying hello to them, that sort of thing.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Out to Trenia in Georgia. Hi, Trenia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, you have a wonderful show. I`ve watched you ever since you`ve been on.
GRACE: Trenia, thank you very much. And thank you for calling in. I appreciate that. What is your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am a mother of two children. I`m 59. They`re grown. But you know when your child is doing something that they`re not supposed to be doing in your heart. My question is, since the dogs at first hit in the back yard, could they have moved the baby from that area to the area they`re talking about? And could Lee be involved in that category because he says, I will never tell the secret?
GRACE: OK. Hold on, Trenia. When you say "they," are you referring to the Anthonys, the grandparents, as moving the body?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Out to Kathi Belich with WFTV, joining us there in Orlando. Kathi, I think that if police believed the Anthonys had moved that body, that they would be charged, as well. Is there any evidence pointing in that direction?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: No, I haven`t heard any evidence pointing in that direction. In fact, the Anthonys directed investigators to check their back yard when they saw some dirt disturbed back there, to check early on. So no, there`s no evidence of that that we`ve heard.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Ray Giudice, Tamara Holder. Out to Eleanor Dixon. What about it, Eleanor? Any possibility the grandparents were involved in moving the body as part of a cover-up?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Nancy, as somebody just said, I think we`d see some charges against them if that were the truth. But maybe it was Casey Anthony who did something with the body at her parents` home and then moved it. That`s entirely possible.
GRACE: We`ll be back with Ray Giudice, Tamara Holder out of Chicago, and of course, Jim Hoover, private eye for the Anthony family, joining us, taking your calls, out of Tampa, Florida.
But very quickly to tonight`s "Case Alert." Possible new evidence in grainy surveillance video emerges in the search for 8-year-old Tracy, California, girl Sandra Cantu. She disappears after a play date with a little friend. The video shows the little girl near her home in the last hours before she vanishes. There you see her skipping and playing. Police confirm a suspicious sealed container at a nearby irrigation pond tonight. If you have information, please call Tracy police, 209-831-6TIP.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: We have said...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a possibility today?
CASEY ANTHONY: ... from the very beginning, if law enforcement would like to speak with myself, he would like to be present, I would like to have my attorney present, but we`ve never shied away from that. Not once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were to tell you that I told Mr. Baez myself in the office that day that it was perfectly all right with me and he turned me down, would that surprise you?
CASEY ANTHONY: It wouldn`t, to a certain extent, considering who else was with you that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing just released audio and video of Casey Anthony, tot mom, on the day she is arrested for the murder of her daughter. And there see her spouting off her constitutional rights like she`s a con law professor.
To Natisha Lance, our producer there at the jail who`s been on the story from the very beginning. She keeps saying over and over how she wants to talk to police, she wants to help in the investigation, but that never happens, does it.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, it doesn`t ever happen, Nancy. And even when she sits down with investigators, she says, My attorney and I have talked about this. We said that we would entertain questions from you, have a conversation. But when her attorney shows up, that never happens and he says that she`s invoking her right and she wants to be taken (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: That`s right, tot mom. Tuck that shirt in. It`s very important that you look great. Forget about the fact you just got arrested and indicted on murder one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you might have seen the result a little differently?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Absolutely, in a lot of different of aspects. You know the conversations that I`ve had not only with my attorney but with my family. So we also feel, I, as a mom, I know in my gut there`s the feeling as a parent that you know certain things about your child, you can feel that connection.
And I still have that feeling, that presence. I know that she`s alive. Whether you have a bucketload of evidence downstairs that contradicts that and says otherwise, or all you have is speculation or nothing at all.
I mean, whatever it is, if there`s still that chance with all these tips that have come through, I know that it`s been speculated how many thousands of tips have come through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s been a lot.
ANTHONY: There have been a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was never my intention to piss anybody in your family off.
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`m not in it to get a conviction. I get nothing out of it. I get zero.
ANTHONY: Exactly. You have a job you`re trying to do. You know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found a few and it sucks both ways.
ANTHONY: Yes. I agree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it is what it is. But where I get sideways with people tends to be when attorneys get involved.
ANTHONY: I`ve heard most people say that. They don`t like attorneys very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have many family members who are attorneys. I have no problems with attorneys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. And joining us tonight in a primetime exclusive, P.I., private investigator, Jim Hoover, who worked for the Anthony family. He was there the fateful day that P.I. Dominic Casey allegedly got a tip long before police where Caylee`s remains were hidden.
We`re taking your calls live. But first to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, prosecutor out of Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Tamara Holder, defense attorney out of Chicago.
Ray Giudice, what do you make of the videos? You know all of this can come before a jury.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the video can to show her manifestations and her reactions. But you know what, she may not be a law professor but she knows more law than those detectives.
They knew she had counsel, she told them she didn`t want to give a statement without her counsel, and the law is clear. Unless she initiates a conversation and waives her right to counsel, everything after that statement is not coming in verbally.
GRACE: Well, I would argue, Eleanor, that this video clearly shows her initiating conversation.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: And that`s the thing, Nancy. It`s going to be the interpretation. Is the prosecutor going to say this is what she initiated, this is what she chose to discuss. Anything she says after, "I don`t want to talk unless I have an attorney," yes, that`s out. OK. But the prosecution has more than enough evidence on this one.
GRACE: Tamara Holder, what do you make of the video?
TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, whether you want somebody, you think somebody`s innocent or guilty they have certain rights. They have right to counsel. They have right to.
GRACE: We know that. We`ve all read the constitution, Miss Holder.
HOLDER: OK, well.
GRACE: I asked you what you think about the video.
HOLDER: I think that the video shows that the investigators should have stopped the questioning. They should have left the room. They even mentioned Baez`s name. They should have left the room, called Baez, and said our conversations have ceased and we will make sure that we will talk.
GRACE: You know what?
HOLDER: . to you when your counsel is present.
GRACE: I appreciate that. Now, let me clarify to you and Giudice. You`re not in court. You`re not before a judge right now asking to get this suppressed. I just asked you, what do you make of the video. You know what? Thank you.
I want to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Dr. Marshall, what does the video reveal to you? And break it down for all of us that are just lawyers.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": What it means to me is she really wants to be admired by the person interviewing her. She confuses positive attention with negative attention just like little kids when they have a temper tantrum. Where you spank them, they think they`re getting a lot of attention.
And she has a fondness for power and police officers and handcuffs and all those things that go along with it, as which is very typical for people with anti-social personality disorder.
GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter. He is going to be deposed in this case. He had an exhaustive search for little Caylee. What do you make of this, Padilla?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL CASE: That`s Casey all the way. She`s not going to budge. She`s going to get convicted. She`s going to get sentenced. And she`s still going to be not budging. There ain`t nobody going to budge her.
GRACE: Do you see in this video where she`s actually laughing and talking? This is the day she`s indicted for her daughter`s murder. And you know what? Forget about the indictment. This is a day it is crystal clear to her that authorities believe her daughter is dead.
OK? There`s no more possibility of a search. It`s over. They say she`s dead. And this is how she`s acting.
PADILLA: I saw her after FBI and law enforcement went into her house and asked her -- asked the family questions and all that, and it was as if nothing had happened. Clearly the same as you see in that video. You`d see her in her home.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live with us tonight. Private eye Jim Hoover, who worked for the Anthony family. Let`s take a listen to more of this videotape that has just been released in the last hours, the day tot mom is indicted and arrested for murder one. She is as calm as a pickle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tips are what the tips are.
ANTHONY: Mm-hmm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it was the local media only, it would be much easier to work.
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you make it the national media, then you come up with.
ANTHONY: You get the Nancy Graces.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get the tips also that come from Hawaii that say I saw Caylee.
ANTHONY: Mm-hmm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, really? OK. Let me call Hawaii and let me send them out.
ANTHONY: The ones from Georgia and the one that are a little bit closer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are what I consider local.
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because the local stations are going to cover that. That`s contiguous to the state of Florida. It`s not.
ANTHONY: Well, people are only getting their information from the "Nancy Graces" or from "Globe" magazine or "People" or, you know, stuff like that. Are you kidding me?
All of them announcing that, you know, there`s going to be a grand jury. Obviously, my name was turned up. They knew who the grand jury was for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who threw your name out?
ANTHONY: All of the media said that it was from the inside source, meaning in here. So that`s where they all say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you what I think of the media, what I think of people who leaks that to the media.
ANTHONY: I think it`s garbage. Yes, I agree.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn`t make it any less necessary. Without them, I`ll be quite honest, without the media we don`t find a quarter of the kids that we.
ANTHONY: Oh, I agree. It helps. The exposure has helped bring in so many tips for my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But at the same time what it creates is it creates a monster that otherwise isn`t necessary.
ANTHONY: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello?
ANTHONY: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
Give me a break here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Orange County Sheriff`s Office. Yes. (INAUDIBLE) Yes. Mr. Baez, we`ve Mirandized, sir, as was (INAUDIBLE) to you. And she`s stated that you`ve done a great job. She invoked. And -- but she also said that she -- you know, that her exasperation is the same as ours, you guys have wanted the opportunity to speak with law enforcement face to face.
And let`s -- if you guys are interested in doing that, let`s get that done. Quit the finger pointing. OK? All right, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sherry in Georgia. Hi, dear.
SHERRY, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hey, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you for calling in.
SHERRY: I really wanted to make a statement more than a question. This little girl, obviously, is so hung up on herself, and they`ve catered to every little need. And what they need to have done from the beginning, they should have put her in a dark room, shut the door, and slid her meals under the door every day and said, hey, listen, when you get ready to talk, we`re here.
Because that`s the only thing that`s going to break her. She`s too hung up on herself, and as long as she`s catered to and has her water and her makeup and all her little stuff, she`s not going to say anything.
GRACE: Well, Sherry, just let me tell you. I just got her last commissary order. Pastries, chocolate, Tropical Blend drink, Mexican food, hot cocoa. Yes.
SHERRY: Yes, and.
GRACE: She`s not worried. Let me just say it certainly has not affected her appetite.
SHERRY: No. And you know, if they had done this when this first started, especially when she led them on those wild goose chases, they would have found that little girl before she got decomposed and this would have probably been all over with.
But that`s where they can hit her, is to cut all this stuff out, put her in a dark room, slide her meals, like I say, under the door, and say hey, we`re here. When you get ready to talk, we`ll talk. And I bet you it wouldn`t be two days she`d be telling the whole thing.
GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies," unfortunately, our constitution will not allow that. Did you just catch that video where she yawns just before she starts popping her gum? She`s not worried.
JOHN LUCICH, FMR. INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Oh, no, she`s not. Absolutely. This is a totally disconnected mother who has no feeling. A coldhearted witch. And she loves having the upper hand on law enforcement. She is trying to control that situation right there. And she`s going to lose control as it goes down. There`s no doubt.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got to tell you something, no offense to the detectives, but she is playing them like a fiddle. You`re right, Lucich.
Everybody, when we get back, we`re taking your calls. With us, Dr. Zhongxue Hua, a New Jersey medical examiner, and Jim Hoover, the private eye for the Anthony family, taking your calls.
But I want to tell you about a missing little boy out of New York. He is 14-year-old Sheaqeal Whitaker. Last seen early Friday morning leaving his Bronx home. He is 5`10", 130 pounds, black hair, brown eyes, last seen wearing black jeans, a black hoodie, jacket, and a book bag.
Look at Sheaqeal. If you have information, please call NYPD CrimeStoppers, 800-577-TIPS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: It`s been a long day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been.
ANTHONY: How`s my dad this morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a hard time.
ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) got a chance to hear him talking with my mom. I spoke to him last night and this morning for just a few quick seconds before he left so, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talked to him this morning for a little bit. He was with Mark. And he was really struggling. I mean, you can imagine he`s having a hard time. He was being called in to essentially provide testimony to indict you. And he was really struggling with that.
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I felt bad for him, to be honest with you. I truly did.
ANTHONY: I spoke with him last night. I know he was subpoenaed and under the law he has to answer whatever questions were asked him and I told him to do what he had to do at that point. And if he didn`t he`d be held in contempt of court. And I don`t want to see that happen so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?
ANTHONY: He just hugged me and he told me that he loved me and he was struggling with it even last night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was probably more so this morning.
ANTHONY: Yes. I could see that with the little bit that I saw from the media, from the pictures and from the little bit of footage that they have so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys watched it on TV?
ANTHONY: We watched it online a little bit. Yes. I try to stay away from the TV as much as possible. At least with the Internet I can scroll through, read what I want, and then just get rid of it that much faster. So.
ANTHONY RUSCIANO, FMR. LOVER OF TOT MOM CASEY ANTHONY: We had sex.
SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: You had sex. Where did guys have sex?
RUSCIANO: At my apartment.
ALLEN: Your apartment. OK. And that would have been -- when would that have been?
RUSCIANO: January.
ALLEN: During January?
RUSCIANO: Yes.
ALLEN: OK. Do you know where her daughter was during that time?
RUSCIANO: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you ever met Jesse prior to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I met him at Ardent Villas like way back in the day for like two seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because that`s where.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that where he lives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so. I don`t know.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says she knew it was her ex-boyfriend that she`s really good friends with now and she brought him down and he was -- I met him -- really, that was it. I was doing some veejaying thing at the pool.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What`s your impression of him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just -- he seemed all right. He was a quiet guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just said, you know, hello, what`s up? He said he had to go out, he had to head back out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I`m just worried about him in a way. And it`s -- actually, I talk to him every day, too. And it`s just some of the stuff that he tells me and some of the stuff that he doesn`t tell me or even the investigators just kind of -- it rubs me the wrong way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just released, audio and video of tot mom the day she is arrested and indicted for murder one in the death of her 2-year-old child, Caylee. And that last video you saw was brother Lee Anthony with Tony Lazzarro, a former lover of tot mom who agreed to cooperate with police and wire himself.
And you hear brother Lee Anthony basically pointing the finger at another former lover of tot mom`s, Jesse Grund.
We are taking your calls live. Dr. Zhongxue Hua is joining us from the New Jersey medical examiner. Dr. Hua, I know you just heard Sherry in Georgia, who said that if tot mom had not led police on a wild goose chase they would have found the body sooner.
Do you believe that even if they had found the body three or four weeks sooner they could have determined cause of death?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CO., N.J. MEDICAL EXAMINER: Three or four week probably won`t make much difference. I mean, you`re talking -- if you`re a couple months earlier you have a better chance to figure out exactly what`s really going on, what`s the exact cause of death and manner of death.
GRACE: Exactly. So you don`t think three or four weeks would have made a difference?
HUA: It would be highly doubtful.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Keya in New Jersey. Hi, Keya.
KEYA, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. First and more importantly, I hope your son is OK.
I wanted to ask you a question. On the jailhouse videos that you guys show where Cindy`s talking to Casey and Cindy says, you know, Casey, if anything has happened to Caylee, I would die, I`m just going to die. And - - I mean, what`s her name? The daughter.
GRACE: Casey.
KEYA: Yes. She said, Casey says to her mom, oh, well. That was her comment. She kind of uttered it. And I`m thinking to myself, what does that mean? That is like not the right response to make when, you know -- with her mother saying -- trying to get information out of her about her daughter and her comment is oh, well.
If anything`s happened to the baby. Casey says oh, well. That`s just really weird to me. I don`t know.
GRACE: Let`s go to the lawyers and see how that`s going to play in front of a jury. Eleanor Dixon, Ray Giudice, Tamara Holder.
Ray Giudice, remember, when you`re talking to your family.
GIUDICE: No privilege.
GRACE: . that`s not privileged.
GIUDICE: No privilege.
GRACE: So she spouts off to her mother, that`s on her.
GIUDICE: Yes. Listen.
GRACE: That`s coming into evidence. I don`t care what the two of you have to say about that. That`s coming in.
GIUDICE: I agree with you. And as defense counsel you need to admit that it`s coming in and make all your efforts in some reasonable ability to neutralize the jury. You`re never going to get the jury to like this lady. She`s a liar. She`s promiscuous. She does everything wrong. She violates every rule of motherhood.
GRACE: But wait a minute. Wait a minute. Ray, put -- nobody cares if she sleeps around.
GIUDICE: That`s right.
GRACE: Nobody cares if she`s promiscuous. Nobody cares.
GIUDICE: Well, why do you keep showing the pictures then? But why do you keep bringing up the boyfriends?
GRACE: Because, Ray, think -- think it through.
GIUDICE: All right, I`m listening.
GIUDICE: Because she`s pointing the finger at all these various lovers as being the killer. Nobody cares who she sleeps with.
GIUDICE: And that goes back to my point. As defense counsel there`s no way to clean this up. You`ve got to try to neutralize the jury to at least have an open mind. You`re never going to paint her as the portrait as a loving, caring mother.
All the callers are right. She is. She is what she is.
GRACE: OK. To Tamara Holder, how do you deal with her speaking to her mother, her mother in tears upset saying, if anything`s happened to her I`ll die and she goes, "oh, well"? Hit me, Tamara.
HOLDER: Well, you don`t deal with it very well. I mean, I agree with Ray that you`re going to have to have some jury coaching. You`re going to have to have her dress up in that nice suit, have her hair pulled back. I mean she is not a likeable defendant. So you`re going to have to do as much as you can to make her as likeable as possible.
What -- you know, less makeup, whatever it is, but she`s not likeable.
GRACE: You know, to Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, her specialty, crimes on children.
Eleanor, it could be argued by the defense that tot mom was upset that her mother cared more about Caylee than about her. But if you take that argument, if the defense takes that argument, then they`re really up the creek without a paddle, because that shows her animosity at her mother over the little girl.
DIXON: And she just discarded her little girl like garbage, as we said earlier, and it shows her demeanor, her uncaring attitude about her own child.
GRACE: Agree. Bethany?
MARSHALL: It`s retribution towards her mother and envy is a more common precursor to homicide than jealousy. So maybe the little girl have things Casey didn`t have, her parents` love, affection. Maybe they were spending money on this little girl that they weren`t spending on Casey and Casey wanted it all for herself.
I would keep envy in mind as well as jealousy when thinking about the motive for homicide in this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: What are your ideas about this nanny, having known her.
RUSCIANO: What are my, what.
MELICH: Well, does she exist?
RUSCIANO: Personally, what do I think?
MELICH: Yes.
RUSCIANO: You`re just asking my personal opinion?
MELICH: Yes.
RUSCIANO: About the whole thing or just about the nanny?
MELICH: About the nanny. Does she exist?
RUSCIANO: I don`t think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Beth in Indiana. Hi, Beth.
BETH, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for everything you do for children.
GRACE: Thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?
BETH: My question is about the P.I..
GRACE: Yes.
BETH: . that the Anthonys hired who went to this crime scene. I`m wondering, he claimed that a psychic led him there, and I`m wondering, who referred that psychic to him or -- because I`m wondering if maybe somebody could have sent the psychic information that the psychic would then give him.
GRACE: Good question. Let`s go Natisha Lance. Remember one of the theories that Dominic Casey, the P.I. -- and with us tonight is Jim Hoover -- had, was the reason he was there is because the psychic led him there. What about it?
Where`d the psychic get the info?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. Well, the Anthony family sent these psychic items that belonged to Caylee Anthony and she was, apparently, working with them. So Dominic Casey had been in communication with her. And on this particular day, she led him to this area.
GRACE: Back to Jim Hoover, the former private eye for the Anthony family. Mr. Hoover.
JIM HOOVER, FMR. PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR FOR ANTHONY FAMILY: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Do you really believe that a psychic led Dominic Casey to the spot where Caylee was hidden?
HOOVER: No, not at all. Not at all.
GRACE: What do you think happened?
HOOVER: Well, the information was just too specific. You know we were looking for three flat stones which turned out to be 12 by 12 by 2 inch pavers, and then we left the woods and we went to another residence within about 150 yards and again found three pavers. It was just too specific.
He said he was checking out the woods to eliminate as an area, and I guess by checking out the house, we`re eliminating all the houses, too.
GRACE: With us tonight, former Anthony P.I., Jim Hoover. Not afraid to take your calls live.
I want to stop to remember Army Specialist Corey Shea, 21, Mansfield, Massachusetts, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, Bronze Star. Paid respects to a former soldier killed in action by getting a tattoo in his memory.
Loved hockey, poker, video games. Dreamed of studying criminal justice at Texas A&M. Leaves behind parent, Denise and William, sister, Kristen.
Corey Shea, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you and for Mr. Hoover being with us tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night friend.
END
