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Nancy Grace

Tapes Show Combative Anthonys in Defamation Case Depositions

Aired April 10, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. After a six-month search, 2-year-old Caylee found thrown away like trash in the woods, just yards from the Anthony home.

Tonight, we obtain more raw video of grandparents George and Cindy Anthony finally testifying under oath. But it`s not without a fight. The Anthonys refuse to fully cooperate, grandmother Cindy Anthony storming out and yelling at plaintiff Zenaida Gonzalez and her lawyers, while grandfather George immediately becomes combative, dodging questions and threatening over and over again that he will walk out. Tonight, we have more of the stunning videotapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Where did she get the Fernandez? Where did you get the Fernandez? Why don`t you tell the camera and all the viewers out there where Fernandez came from? It`s not on our CMD (ph) record. That`s part of our homework, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, your daughter...

CINDY ANTHONY: What`s your date of birth, 10-1-1970?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, please! (INAUDIBLE) for God`s sake! This is outrageous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never laid eyes on anyone named Zanny (INAUDIBLE) in your life?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: The pronounciation (SIC), sir, is Zanny. No sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zanny.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Instead of "Zenny," to what you`re saying. So I guess you have to pronunciate (SIC) things a little better, sir, for someone to understand you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to confuse you, so let me give it...

GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) I`m on the ball. You`re trying to badger me. I don`t appreciate that.

CINDY ANTHONY: He`s shaking his head when he asks me a question. I`m answering it, and then he cuts me off. It`s exactly what the sheriff`s department did to my daughter. They never let her speak. And you guys are doing the same thing to me.

GEORGE ANTHONY: And I don`t appreciate you giving me the finger as you`re putting your foot down...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I -- (INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, you`ve done it three or four times. I don`t appreciate that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re answering a question I`m not asking you.

CINDY ANTHONY: But you did ask the question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to argue. I really don`t want to argue.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, read back the transcript. Watch it later. That`s why you`ve got it on video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: Get control of him, Mr. Morgan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Caylee`s grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, grilled on the hot seat, the Anthonys combative, yelling and cursing at the lawyers, then storming out. And tonight, we have more of that raw video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get that information that...

CINDY ANTHONY: From Casey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I`ll finish the question, and we`ll get it. You know what I`m asking, and I appreciate it. The information about Jeffrey Hopkins...

CINDY ANTHONY: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... being the boyfriend of Zanny...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: He just asked me a question, how I got it. So I answered it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I`ll re-ask it. I appreciate that.

CINDY ANTHONY: I guess raise your hand when you`re finished, and then I`ll know when you`re done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you`ll know when I`m finished, ma`am. Jeffrey Hopkins...

CINDY ANTHONY: I thought I did. Obviously, I was wrong.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`ve already answered him. This is not the lady. When I get up out of here, I want to walk over to her and shake her hand and tell her I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate that.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I will do that because that`s the kind of person that I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s good. I mean that. I`m not being sarcastic.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`ll tell you what. You`d better get this over in five minutes. I`m giving you five minutes more of my time. Otherwise (INAUDIBLE) I`m walking out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... about Sawgrass Apartments...

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one. I`m done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me just say this for the record...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) hold on, Brad.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need to say this.

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: He asked me a question, and he won`t let me finish it. He`s just like everybody else. They want to cut you off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy...

CINDY ANTHONY: They don`t want to hear the answer.

GEORGE ANTHONY: When you say you sympathize and all that kind of stuff, you don`t give anything about me. You don`t care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad, if she`s going to walk out, we`re going to move to find her in contempt of court. We need to mike up.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t need to mike anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am...

CINDY ANTHONY: I never agreed to have a microphone. I`m not miking up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then...

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone touches me, I`m going to file harassment charges. Someone`s touching me. (INAUDIBLE) You don`t have faith. And I know you don`t have faith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up!

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not shutting up. Tell me I can`t pray?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t say that.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, you did! You went on TV and said...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut the door, please.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, we`re going. We`re out of here. I can`t stomach the man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: There were hours and hours of this deposition. It is all public record. We`re going to show you some of this tonight for the very first time.

I want to first go out to Drew Petrimoulx. He is a reporter for WDBO radio out there in Florida. What`s the latest?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: The latest is these depositions, they got really heated, George and Cindy Anthony going back and forth with the lawyers for Zenaida Gonzalez. There were questions that the Anthonys didn`t want to answer. There were arguments back and forth at different times. Both of them said that they were going to walk out of the interview. Their lawyer, Brad Conway, had to settle them down. And it ended with, basically, Cindy Anthony storming out of the law offices of John Morgan and Keith Mitnik.

CASAREZ: A hundred and forty pages was Cindy`s deposition. I don`t think any of us expected it to be like this.

I want to go out to a very exclusive guest right now. Keith Mitnik is joining us. He is the civil attorney for Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. He is the one who`s asking the majority of the questions. Thank you so much for joining us. First of all, I want to ask you...

KEITH MITNIK, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: Thank you for having me.

CASAREZ: ... what do you think was the strongest answer you got yesterday from those depositions to help your case?

MITNIK: Well, there probably were two. The main two answers were the fact that they went public and said Zenaida -- this Zenaida Gonzalez, our client, that back when Casey cleared her to the police, they went public and said, No, she didn`t look at the photograph, we didn`t clear her, keeping the cloud of suspicion over her head, and that Cindy Anthony had specific authority from Casey to go public and tell that to the public and keep her within the cloud of suspicion, rather than tamp it out.

CASAREZ: Well, when you look at all the answers you got yesterday and the questions that were not answered, that they refused to answer, do you see yourself going back to court in a motion to compel to get more answers from George and Cindy?

MITNIK: I certainly do. Certainly, with George, some of the significant questions that we had were just -- we got a total stonewall and he ducked the hard questions with him. He`s going to be back there.

CASAREZ: Now, I want to ask you that yesterday, George Anthony, very emotional, and I think in many respects, very, very understandable, but he accused you of some very, very improper conduct yesterday at this sworn deposition, you, an officer of the court. Let`s listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: I want to understand something. How can you get involved in a criminal case when this is a civil matter? Explain that to me, sir. You keep on fishing for more stuff. Do you want -- is this 15 minutes of fame so important to you?

MITNIK: Sir, I don`t have to explain anything, but I will.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, sir, you have to explain a lot to me.

MITNIK: Actually, I don`t, but I will just as a courtesy.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, thank you. I`d appreciate some courtesy.

MITNIK: OK.

GEORGE ANTHONY: And I don`t appreciate you giving me the finger as you`re putting your foot down...

MITNIK: Sir -- oh, come on! I`m...

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, sir, you are!

MITNIK: I don`t...

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, you`ve done it three or four times, and I don`t appreciate that motion.

MITNIK: And I will continue -- I push -- my glasses slide down up on my face. I wouldn`t sit here and shoot a bird at you. I`m sorry. I will be very careful to use my pinky so there`s no question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: All right. Now, Mr. Mitnik, I see you wear glasses...

MITNIK: I do. And I tell you what. I do...

CASAREZ: And we couldn`t see you.

MITNIK: You`ll probably catch me doing this. You couldn`t see. I do this...

CASAREZ: Show us. What were you doing (INAUDIBLE)

MITNIK: They come down, and I do this. I don`t know why. I`ve never -- my nose must not be shaped right. My glasses never stay up. They slide down. I do this all day long. Somewhere -- and I`ve done this with hundreds of witnesses in 26 years. I`ve worn glasses my whole professional career. I`ve never heard anyone accuse me of shooting the bird at them.

It was absolutely ridiculous to suggest that I -- four or five times was shooting a bird at the gentleman for pushing my glasses back up.

CASAREZ: Let`s go to Dr. Lillian Glass right now, Ph.D., out of Los Angeles, California. Dr. Glass, when you see the antagonism, and we have seen it thus far tonight, what are your thoughts as to the mindset of these parents that have lost their granddaughter?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Jean, it`s -- you really see such hostility, such anger, and it really gives you some understanding about Casey because the apple certainly doesn`t fall too far from the tree -- the evasiveness, the not getting to the point. Very disturbing to watch these tapes, very disturbing. She wouldn`t answer questions. But you know what? With her body language, she answered them.

CASAREZ: But don`t you think it`s understandable, in one sense? They have lost their granddaughter...

GLASS: To a degree. But this -- at this point, you really see that it`s gone overboard. You know, we`ve always heard Leonard Padilla say negative things about Cindy. Now you see it up close and personal.

CASAREZ: All right. Point taken.

Let`s go out to the attorneys right now. Let`s look at the legal issues. First of all, nationally known network anchor, former prosecutor, defense attorney, now legal anchor at the legal network In Session, my colleague, Jack Ford, is with us. Thank you so much, Jack. Penny Douglas Furr, phenomenal defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, so much experience with child issues. And Peter Schaffer, renowned trial attorney out of New York.

Jack Ford, want to ask you -- let`s say you`re going to be prosecuting this case against Casey Anthony. You were able to watch yesterday`s deposition as really a dress rehearsal. These witnesses could be very important to the prosecution`s case. Do you see challenges for yourself here?

JACK FORD, FORMER PROSECUTOR, IN SESSION ANCHOR: Well, the difference is, Jean, obviously, if we`re inside a courtroom and I`m the prosecutor, you`re not going to have this back and forth going on between the witnesses and me as the prosecutor. You`ve got a judge in a courtroom. The judge makes sure that doesn`t happen.

But you do learn something. You know, if you`re a prosecutor, you`ll take every opportunity to learn whatever you can. And you`re learning some factual information here, and you`re also learning about the types of witnesses you`re going to be confronted with. If I`m the defense attorney -- and you`ll talk to them about it -- I`m not happy about any of this stuff getting out of there. But from a prosecutor`s perspective, you`re learning a little bit more about attitudes, about personalities, about demeanors. You`re probably not learning a whole lot more about your case.

CASAREZ: Well, let`s go to the other attorney right now, defense attorney Penny Douglas Furr out of Atlanta. Aren`t you going to have a field day on cross-examination with these witnesses? Because these witnesses are for your client, Casey Anthony.

PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. They could have a field day. Unfortunately, with depositions, the rule is it does not just have to be anything that`s relevant to the subject matter. It can be anything that could lead to anything relevant, which just opens the door wide. And you can go almost anywhere in a discovery deposition. And I`m very surprised they let them take these depositions prior to the criminal case being heard.

CASAREZ: Peter Schaffer, let`s ask you. Are you surprised there was a deposition? This is a defamation case. This is a woman that says, I have rights, too.

PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, I think you can`t really stop the civil case. I think the civil case is a little ridiculous because I don`t think the -- Casey Anthony has a dime, and by the time they pay for these depositions and the cost of litigation, you`re going to be trying to get money from someone that doesn`t have it. So I think there`s an ulterior motive.

CASAREZ: Keith Mitnik, is this case ridiculous?

MITNIK: I hate to hear those kind of things. Not everything`s about money. Some things are about principle. What they did to this lady`s reputation was horrendous, and we`re going to try to do something to correct it and bring about some justice. I don`t consider that ridiculous. I fight for justice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you know about your daughter changing the story of Zenaida Gonzalez being dropped off at Sawgrass to being kidnapped at Blanchard Park?

GEORGE ANTHONY: I have no knowledge about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever talk to your daughter about it?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, I have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard that there`s a different story?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Heard a lot of stories, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard that that particular one changed from she voluntarily dropped her -- your granddaughter off with Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass, and then changed the story to Zenaida Gonzalez took her from her, kidnapped her from her at Blanchard Park? Have you heard of that change in your daughter`s story?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that`s news you`re hearing for the first time here today?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The statement that the police officers have made that your daughter had denied that this Zenaida Gonzalez is the actual Zenaida Gonzalez -- that now has been undone by this statement you`ve made because your daughter has told you and you`ve broadcast to the world that she never was shown a photograph.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, it`s not undone because Casey`s handwritten statement does not describe her. Her birthday`s not September 1st. She`s not 25 years old. She`s not 5-foot-7. She`s not 140 pounds. She doesn`t have black hair. She doesn`t have perfect teeth. She`s not a 10. I`m sorry, ma`am. You`re cute, but you`re not a 10.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace today. Blockbuster video -- this is a sworn deposition that can be used in a court of law.

Out to Nikki Pierce, reporter for WDBO radio. Nikki, the one thing that stands out in all of this -- several things stand out, but one thing is they both say they had heard about a Zanny for a couple of years.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: They do. They say they`ve heard about a Zanny for a couple of years, but they`ve never seen her, they`ve never met her, and they don`t say that they`ve heard the name Zenaida Gonzalez, which I think is very significant. They say they`ve heard -- they heard the name Zenaida Gonzalez -- at least George says that he heard the name Zenaida Gonzalez for the first time in mid-July, when all of this broke.

CASAREZ: OK...

PIERCE: They do say that this...

CASAREZ: Go ahead. Go ahead.

PIERCE: Oh, sorry. They do say that this Zenaida Gonzalez is not the Zenaida Gonzalez in these depositions, but apparently, Casey will not make the same claim.

MITNIK: And out to Keith Mitnik, attorney for Zenaida Fernandez- Gonzalez. And I think it`s important, Mr. Mitnik, to say those three names because Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez -- that`s your client`s name and that is the name that Casey gave to law enforcement, correct?

MITNIK: Let me correct that. The middle name is not her name. Middle name is not. Zenaida Gonzalez is her name.

CASAREZ: OK. All right. Then where did the Fernandez come from?

MITNIK: That is a name that when Casey Anthony started telling this story to the police, she threw in this Fernandez.

CASAREZ: Oh. So that`s not your client`s name.

MITNIK: It is not her middle name.

CASAREZ: But the association is the Sawgrass Apartments, correct?

MITNIK: If you put on scales -- yes. If you put on scales, the only person in the history of man had any connection to the name Zenaida Gonzalez with Sawgrass was our client. On the other side of the scale, there`s no one. And we know Casey Anthony had contacts and friends there. She bailed from the house, and within two days, our client was filling out an application there. And lo and behold, she sends -- Casey sends people - - the police over, saying it was at Sawgrass where Zenaida was. It`s overwhelming, the common sense that she got that from Sawgrass.

CASAREZ: How`s Zenaida doing these days? What is she doing?

MITNIK: Rough. Rough. Let me tell you what was so hard with those depos. You know, I -- if it hadn`t been so serious, I`d have objected that the witness is badgering the lawyer. But I`m a big boy. Bring it on.

But my client, this is tough on her and she`s innocent as a lamb. And Cindy Anthony -- George Anthony was gracious to her. But Cindy Anthony really went after her, talking about crooked teeth and, You`re not a 10, and then going and -- really aggressively rude to her. It was sad. She was very rattled, very upset by it. She left there upset. It was a sad day for her.

CASAREZ: Did she lose her job, Zenaida?

MITNIK: Oh, yes. There were questions about...

CASAREZ: Did she lose her home?

MITNIK: She lost the place she was living because she lost her job. That`s what she`s told us from the beginning. And Cindy Anthony was suggesting she`s just making all that up. It was pretty offensive on behalf of this lady, who`s been drug into this mess that`s got nothing to do with it.

CASAREZ: You know, your client`s name is on the prosecution`s witness list, and I saw that her address was Motel 6.

MITNIK: Yes. She`s been living out of a hotel. She`s struggling very mightily financially.

CASAREZ: All right. Very, very quickly, Detective Lieutenant, Nutley, New Jersey police officer Steven Rogers. Would you, as an investigator, look at this deposition to try to gain new evidence for your investigation?

DET. LT. STEVEN ROGERS, NUTLEY, NJ, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Oh, I sure would. And as I look at these tapes, I`m noticing that when a person is defensive, evasive and trying to avoid answering questions, they`re hiding something. And I believe law enforcement believes to this day that they`re hiding something, and that`s what they have to nail down.

CASAREZ: To Dr. Lillian Glass -- the gum chewing. We see the gum chewing. Does that mean anything psychologically when someone is in such a formal situation?

GLASS: Absolutely. It shows the ultimate disrespect. She was completely disrespectful. It was obnoxious and totally inappropriate. And I totally agree with the fact that she has something to hide. You also see, when she refused to answer questions about the credit card and the checks, but you saw a shoulder shrug. You saw a lot of tells that shows that Cindy was not being totally forthright.

CASAREZ: On the other hand, they`re trying to protect the daughter. They lost one. They don`t want to lose another.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." Police are one step closer to finding the killer of 8-year-old California girl Sandra Cantu, little Sandra last seen on surveillance video near her home before she disappears. Almost two weeks later, her body found in a suitcase dumped in a nearby pond. So far, police searching an SUV for evidence and questioning neighbors and the pastor of a local Baptist church. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There came a point in time, though, that when Casey came home, that she changed the version of events that you understood about Sawgrass Apartments...

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one. I`m done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me just say this for the record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Brad.

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me say this...

CINDY ANTHONY: Listen, I`m tired of getting beat up. He asked me a question and he won`t let me finish it. He`s just like everybody else. They want to cut you off...

MITNIK: Cindy...

CINDY ANTHONY: ... and they don`t want to hear the answer.

MITNIK: Ma`am...

CINDY ANTHONY: Mr. Morgan went on TV and said that the reason he`s doing this is because he wants his client cleared. So the reason I`m here is to clear his client. It has nothing to do with my daughter`s and my relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate that.

CINDY ANTHONY: So let`s move on to Ms. Gonzalez so that Mr. Morgan can go home and I can go home because I`m very tired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand...

CINDY ANTHONY: It`s been a long day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand you`re tired, but let`s go back to my question, OK?

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not answering it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Out to Keith Mitnik, exclusively with us, the civil attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. Mr. Mitnik, is it true that Cindy brought her own camera, videocamera, and set it up yesterday?

MITNIK: She brought in a camera and put it on the lawyers. This is a fairly aggressive clan. These aren`t wilting violets. And she came looking for a fight.

CASAREZ: OK. To Jack Ford, anchor of In Session. Would you advise your client to bring her own camera and set it up during a deposition like this?

FORD: No, I`m not going to have them bring it. But Jean, you have to understand -- I`m sure Mr. Mitnik has seen this before. I think we all have. Sometimes emotions get high, especially in depositions. As I said before, there`s no judge to control things. The rules are much more relaxed, questions that can be asked because they might lead to evidence, whereas in a courtroom, you have to be more precise and more focused. It happens. I think we`ve all been in there.

But I think the lawyers have to take control of clients and witnesses to try to keep this type of thing from happening. But Jean, as angry as I might be if I`m a lawyer and I`m trying to stick up for my client, I don`t think I`m going to suggest to my client you that bring your own camera in.

CASAREZ: All right. To Penny Douglas Furr in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Penny, I see the emotion with these parents. Can`t that actually translate to a jury to be empathy for Casey Anthony because they feel so bad for the parents?

FURR: It definitely could. This woman has done nothing wrong. She`s a grandmother. She`s lost her grandchild. She`s traumatized. I believe she brought her own camera because she knew this would be out in the media within 24 hours and they would be playing the parts they wanted to hear. She may have parts that she wants people to hear in an effort to defend her herself.

And I think the woman has been just so dragged through the mud that she`s tired of it, she`s angry, and she`s trying in her best way to fight back.

CASAREZ: And that makes you feel bad. Peter Schaffer, agree?

SCHAFFER: Yes, I agree. I mean, what are you going to do? These people have lost their grandchild. They`re people that shouldn`t be in the public eye, but they`re thrust in there and they`re stuck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: Brad, I`m getting ready to end this. I`m getting ready to walk out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just let him ask the questions. OK? Take a deep breath, George. All right? Take a breath. OK. This is very specific. So all y`all listen close to this lady sitting right here.

G. ANTHONY: I`ve looked at her many times. And I feel sorry for her being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So let me ask you a very specific question.

G. ANTHONY: And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I feel sorry that you have to go through this. Really I do and I hope from this I`ll be able to shake your hand, when this is all over with, and just say that I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even if there`s no argument, as you say, and Casey left the home, that during those last -- those two days that she had the opportunity to go where her friends lived at Sawgrass, to hang out at Sawgrass, to sleep at Sawgrass, and to see this person pull in and to get information about Zenaida Gonzalez being at the Sawgrass apartments --

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: Then she would have told the sheriff`s department that it was Zenaida Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no?

C. ANTHONY: And not Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no? You like it this way.

C. ANTHONY: No, no, it is not fair to say. It`s not fair to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is that?

C. ANTHONY: Because. You`re asking me why is that? Because if you`re saying that Casey`s accusing her, then on her statement on July 16th she would have said the nanny was Zenaida Gonzale without a "Z" on it. Where does the Fernandez come in?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: This is an important point that Cindy is making. I`m Jean Casarez of the Legal Network in Session in for Nancy Grace. Let me tell you, Cindy Anthony, she knows the discovery inside and out. She was quoting pages on hours upon hours of deposition testimony. And one thing she had to say was that she believes the Zenaida Gonzalez that was in that room yesterday that`s the plaintiff in the defamation case, that is not the same Zenaida Gonzalez that went to the Sawgrass Apartments. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: And you said on TV if I said and if Casey said that she had nothing to do with it, that`s all you wanted. You said that on -- you said that on November 17th with your Channel 9 interview that you had --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do want to commend you. You know your dates and --

C. ANTHONY: Yes, I do, because I did my homework before I came here today, sir. I got prepared for this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well you`re the most prepared witness I`ve ever had.

C. ANTHONY: Well, you know what sir, this is important to me because this affects my granddaughter. This affects me. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What all did you do to prepare for this today?

C. ANTHONY: What I did to prepare for this is I watched your interview and I pulled three things. I pulled the -- you asked for it. I pulled the Sawgrass Apartment, where someone signed C. Zenaida Gonzale.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you get that from?

C. ANTHONY: From the discovery, page 45.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right after Casey had had a fight with her family and left the home?

C. ANTHONY: She didn`t have a fight with me. Go there. Go there, Mr. Morgan. She didn`t fight with me, sir. No, let it go. Let him look like an ass on the thing. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t that at the time Zenaida Gonzalez -- you are aware that this Zenaida Gonzalez was at Sawgrass Apartments, are you not?

C. ANTHONY: Whether or not she was or not what I`m aware --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just --

C. ANTHONY: Is that her signature? Is that her signature? Did she sign it? C. Well, answer the question. Is that she -- you`re asking me. Did she sign that? OK? All right? You`re asking me a question, and I want to verify. Did she sign that Sawgrass thing C. Zenaida Gonzalez? She just shook her head yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: All right. We did our homework too. We`ve got page number 45 of that discovery. Let`s put it up on the screen for everybody to see. This is the information card that a Zenaida Gonzalez, if you say it`s Gonzalez, allegedly signed at the Sawgrass Apartment. If you look on the left-hand side of your screen, it says C. Zenaida Gonzale. But then there`s another one that says C. Zenaida Gonzalez. All right and Cindy is saying Gonzale is not the same name as Gonzalez.

I want to go out to Leonard Padilla, who spent countless hours searching for Caylee Anthony. How do you explain this information card?

PADILLA: Well, let`s go prior to the information card. Prior to Cindy and all of her statements, George himself said to one of the FBI detectives interviewing him that he had knowledge or he had discussed the Zenaida Gonzalez taking the baby away at J. Blanchard. So he lied during the deposition as to not having any prior knowledge about that.

But when you go to the Sawgrass Apartments, Zenaida was there because she was getting divorced or separated from her husband, she was looking for an apartment. That`s why she put that she had two children down. She`s actually got six. She also was in the car or around the car when Harry the manager comes out and he says Zenaida, Miss Zenaida Gonzalez, you forgot to sign your card, or something to that effect.

Now, that morning, Casey had been at Chris Stutz`s house driving her boyfriend Lazzaro`s Jeep with New York plates. If you go back to Chris`s statements, you can see where he says she was there on the morning of the 17th. Now, she`s driving the Jeep because she`s got a dead body in the trunk of her car from the night of the 15th when there was a fight. Cindy choked her out, damn near beat her senseless. That`s when she picked up the child and left.

So all of these things tend to follow from that. And the fight was over the bill that Casey had paid with some of Cindy`s mother`s money from an account for the retirement home, or whatever it is. That`s what brought this whole thing on. And the chain of events flowed to where when Casey goes to see her friend Dante and Annie, who no longer lives at the Sawgrass, she says Harry having communication. She sees Zenaida`s car, which is registered to Zenaida`s son with a New York plate, makes a connection, and stores it in her mind, this could be handy down the road.

CASAREZ: That`s a lot of information, Leonard Padilla, a lot of information.

PADILLA: Cindy don`t -- Cindy don`t have a thing on me as far as reading those reports. Believe me.

CASAREZ: Let`s go back to Keith Mitnik. I want to go back to this information card. I see with my own eyes C. Zenaida Gonzale. Can you explain it?

MITNIK: Yes, my client`s name`s not C. Zenaida Gonzale. It`s Zenaida Gonzalez. I don`t know who put what on the form but her name`s Zenaida Gonzalez. And whether or not -- we`re never going to know for sure. Cindy Anthony, I mean Casey Anthony won`t answer any questions. Whether she looked at a form or she heard the name at Sawgrass, that`s a big red herring. My client`s name is not that. The question is somehow she got latched on to turn Zanny into Zenaida Gonzalez and we know the connection at Sawgrass.

But really importantly, with all this question in our case, forget the criminal case -- in our case, did she point the finger at this lady we represent? Absolutely. When they went on TV in November and said the lady that was interviewed down in Kissimmee by police, I never looked at a photograph and cleared her. That`s our lady.

CASAREZ: Let`s make sure everyone knows the timeline here. June 16th is when Casey Anthony and Caylee Anthony left the family home for the last time. June 17th is when a Zenaida Gonzalez filled out this form at the Sawgrass Apartments. To Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers out of New Jersey, is this an important piece of the puzzle that you need to find out as an investigator, how Casey Anthony found the name of Zenaida Gonzalez?

ROGERS: Very, very important. But even more so, where did this name Fernandez pop up? That`s where the police are really going to dig in and find out how on earth do we get a middle name of Fernandez? Could that be a clue that they overlook?

CASAREZ: I think that`s an important aspect too because I`ve heard the middle name Fernandez so long with so many. Do you think at all, Keith Mitnik, that`s going to hurt your case because your Zenaida doesn`t have that middle name?

MITNIK: No, not in the least bit because I have videotape of the mother with the authority of the daughter saying the lady that went to Kissimmee that was interviewed by the police, I`m not going to say I looked at a picture and cleared her when the truth was you did. You put the finger of suspicion right on her, and it doesn`t have anything to do with Fernandez. We were the only one interviewed.

I`ll say this. I don`t know where Fernandez came from. If someone could talk to Cindy Anthony -- I mean to Casey Anthony, we may get it. I don`t know whether she could have been using that name with this phantom Zanny the nanny earlier and plugged it in. We really don`t know because she won`t answer our questions in spite of our efforts to try.

CASAREZ: To Jack Ford, anchor of In Session, how much of this is going to come into the criminal case? Is any of it going to come into the prosecution`s case?

FORD: I think it probably will, Jean. This is going to be the consummate circumstantial evidence case. There are no eyewitnesses. There`s no confession here. So if I`m the prosecutor, I have to put this together with a lot of little pieces and I`m going to seize on anything including this to suggest to the jury she`s making this all up to cover for herself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite that fact and despite that lie that you knew, you went on TV and you said that this is the person --

C. ANTHONY: No, I did not. I did not say that this is the person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, we`ve already -- we have played this. You went on television. Instead of clearing this person`s name when you had the opportunity on television to clear this person`s name, even though that the police had told you that Casey had told you that this Zenaida Gonzalez was not the person she picked out, you went on TV and did not clear her name that night, did you?

C. ANTHONY: No, because I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no, the way you like it?

C. ANTHONY: No, because I didn`t know her name was C. Zenaida Gonzalez -- Gonzale or I would have cleared her name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s don`t play games.

C. ANTHONY: I said Zanny on there. I didn`t say C. Zenaida.

G. ANTHONY: OK, I`m going to cut to your chase right now so you can get rid of all these questions. Number one is the Zanny that my daughter described to me is 24 to 25 years old, about 5`7", 125, 130 pounds. She has straight white teeth, long brown hair. OK? On a scale of one to 10 she`s a 10 supposedly.

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: OK.

G. ANTHONY: So let`s just cut to the chase. Why don`t we just end this right now today?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the Legal Network In Session in for Nancy Grace tonight. Out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO Radio. Drew, I want to ask you, how`s this all playing in Orlando, Florida?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, there are mixed opinions around here. Most people catch a lot of the news coverage. Our local news stations and over at WDBO, we cover this on a daily basis, so people are kind of inundated with this coverage.

But I also get people coming up to me asking me do you think she really did it, is she guilty, did she really do this? So there is still a bit of doubt. I don`t think people have totally made their minds up. But I would say the majority of the public opinion is she is guilty.

CASAREZ: To Nikki Pierce, reporter of WDBO Radio, do people feel sorry for George and Cindy? Because I don`t think anyone would want to be in that seat that they were in yesterday.

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: I -- by and large, yes, the vast majority of people feel a lot of sympathy for George and Cindy because they were not directly involved in what has happened here and these things that have been brought onto their family and these things that they`re dealing with were not actions that they were directly involved in in most people`s opinion and no one wishes this type of scenario on anyone.

CASAREZ: You know, to Penny Douglass Furr, defense attorney out of Atlanta, we heard so many specifics yesterday about Zenaida Gonzalez. We heard the family`s heard about a Zanny for a couple of years, that there were phone numbers, that there were places of employment, that she knew people, that Casey would talk about she had a little white dog. I mean, it went on and on. Plus a physical description. This is a defense, Penny, right? Reasonable doubt?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This can help them tremendously. This can help the defense. And they can put up these tapes if the court will let them in and not have Miss Anthony cross-examined. They can put the tape of Cindy Anthony up in the courtroom at the criminal trial and talk about the fact that had had been discussed for two years. So I know we`re talking about how it would help the prosecution, but parts of this can also help the defense.

CASAREZ: But to Peter Schaffer, defense attorney, if another defense attorney would be added to the team or if they would decide to go in another direction, that we don`t even know about as far as defense, aren`t they locked into Zenaida Gonzalez at this point?

PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think, you know, you -- too much has been discussed about her. You`re not going to change the course at this point. But I don`t think that anything that came out in this deposition`s going to make very much of a difference in the trial.

CASAREZ: OK, all right. To Jack Ford, do you think there`s any chance that we could still have a mental defense here, that a Zanny, a Zenaida Gonzalez was all a figment of an imagination, imagination that was so mentally disturbed?

JACK FORD, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, Jean, it`s always a possibility as they move along. I`d be really surprised because everybody has been so locked into this and there`s nothing about Casey Anthony when you watch her that makes you think, well, maybe this is a woman who is so out of touch with reality here that we have to take a real hard look at her mental capacity. Anything can happen. We`ve seen it before in trials. I`d be very surprised this far into the game if we saw anything other than a defense that she just didn`t do it.

CASAREZ: Very interesting. To Leonard Padilla, you spent so much time with the family in the home in Orlando trying to find Caylee. Did you ever hear about a Zanny?

PADILLA: Zanny is nicknamed amongst the kids for Xanax. When she left the baby and she gave her a couple of bites of Xanax, it was Zanny the baby-sitter. Where`s your baby-sitter? Oh, she`s with Zanny the Nanny. That`s all it was. It`s not Zanny and Zenaida. That was just a total coincidence that happens sometimes in life. It was always meant to be Xanax.

CASAREZ: Now, how do you know that? How do you know that? Where did you learn that?

PADILLA: Go to Orlando and talk to anybody her age group who knows her. It was Zanny for Xanax.

CASAREZ: But did you hear that in the home? Did someone in the family say that?

PADILLA: Ask Lee, her brother.

CASAREZ: All right. Ask Lee, her brother. And Lee Anthony of course being the brother of Casey Anthony.

To Lillian Glass, psychologist, if we look at that as having some truth, Zanny meaning Xanax, what are we looking at here psychologically as to the state of someone?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, we`re seeing a lot of things psychologically, and it`s not necessarily a mental disorder. It`s an anti- social personality disorder. And she fits so many of the checklists that you see for somebody who is a psychopath or a sociopath -- The lying, the blaming, the narcissism. She fits it to a tee.

CASAREZ: To Keith Mitnik, attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. You`ve had just about 24 hours now to think about yesterday, think about everything that happened. What are your thoughts on those depositions?

MITNIK: Well, I can tell you the most significant things very quickly. There are three of them. Number one, it was very telling -- it was very powerful when George said he knew from his days in law enforcement the very distinct smell of a decaying body and he smelled it in the trunk of the car that his daughter had had. That was very troubling.

Two, when you couple it with when we asked him about the time that he caught her during that 30 days that they were missing, he caught Casey in the house, she was in a hurry to leave, he wanted to look in the trunk checking for some gas tanks he thought she`d stolen and she fought him to get in the gas tank. Not physically but got in the way, blocked it, slammed the trunk before he got there. That`s in a police report. When we tried to ask him, he refused to ask any questions.

And lastly, this whole thing about this phantom nanny, Zanny the nanny, whatever you want to call it -- while that granddaughter`s missing if they believe their daughter, and they surely loved that child, every waking moment would have been trying to find Zanny the nanny, the phantom nanny.

When you listen to their efforts to chase down the person their daughter was saying got your grandchild, there`s so little effort to chase her down. It`s hard to believe they believe there really was this person.

CASAREZ: And they said they were leaving that to law enforcement. Right now, "CNN Heroes."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN Heroes."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in Afghanistan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I broke a vertebrae.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got hit by the blast. Blew up about 20 feet in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My teeth were just shredded up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I lost my right eye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mouth was blasted out.

NAVY CAPT. ED NICHOLSON, CNN HERO: The demons of war, you just don`t set them aside. But once you get out on the river, the serenity is incredibly healing.

My name is Ed Nicholson, and I founded a program that helps wounded servicemen and veterans to fly fishing. I spent 30 years in the Navy. More recently, I was down at Walter Reed. It was impossible not to see the service men and women of missing limbs and serious wounds, and I thought many of them probably would love to get out of the hospital and go fishing.

Instead of cranking it in, you strip, strip. You become more independent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My injuries are to my right arm. It really helped me to start using that right hand and adapt to skills of everyday living. NICHOLSON: I`ve heard from other participants when I`m out there fishing, I don`t think about the pain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doctors can`t heal the heart and soul. Being out in nature does that. What it shows you is that life is not over. It`s only beginning.

NICHOLSON: OK. Here we go.

I`m not a psychologist. I`m just an old naval officer, but I can tell you this that the individuals that work with our program, they get a great deal out of it. That`s what keeps me going.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s your right. But I as a law enforcement officer still, have the right to approach you as a suspect. Not going to sugar coat it. That`s one thing you`ll never get with me is a mind game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I appreciate that.

NANCY GRACE, CNN ANCHOR: OK. I don`t know who they think is playing a mind game. But we see tot mom on video at the time of her arrest for the murder of her 2-year-old child, calm, cool, collected, adjusting her nails, her hair, makeup, her shirt.

The search for 8-year-old Sandra Cantu has come to an end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bag was taken from the water and transported to the San Joaquin County morgue where it was open. Inside the bag, we located the body of Sandra Cantu.

G. ANTHONY: I have not heard my granddaughter`s voice since June 16th of 2008. Do not ask me that, again, sir, because I will walk out of here. Do not do that to me again. Yes, you are. Yes, you are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey had a fight with her family and left the home?

C. ANTHONY: She didn`t have a fight with me. Go there, go there, Mr. Morgan. She didn`t fight with me, sir. No. No. Let it go. Let him look like an ass on the thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the only person this helps is John Morgan. Remember, this is a $15,000 defamation suit. That means John Morgan stands to get about $5,000 out of it. He`s wearing shoes that cost more than $5,000. He`s taking the case for the publicity.

GRACE: Peter, you`re in Atlanta. Morgan`s in Orlando. Have you seen his feet? What does that have to do with the murder one trial?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Tonight, let us remember marine corporal Aaron Allen, 24- years-old. He`s from Wilton, California. Aaron shared a special tattoo with his childhood friends, the Chinese symbol for warrior. He loved football and baseball. After Iraq, he dreamed of proposing to his girlfriend, his girlfriend, Kelly, and enrolling in the fire academy. Allen leaves behind grieving parents Michael and Kathy and his sister, Amy. Aaron Allen, an American hero. Thank you so much to all of our guests. Our biggest thank you is for you being at home, being with us tonight. See you tomorrow tonight 8:00 sharp Eastern. Happy holidays to everyone this weekend. Until then, good night, everybody.

END