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CNN Larry King Live
Pastor's Granddaughter Arrested; Interview with Marlee Matlin
Aired April 13, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, CNN GUEST HOST: Tonight, a little girl murdered. Now, her best mother facing the charges.
Did the Sunday school teacher, this granddaughter of a pastor, abuse the trust of this child?
Actress Marlee Matlin weighs in with the deep, dark secret she couldn't even tell her parents -- betrayed by the babysitter she claims molested her.
Did it lead her to drugs and a destructive relationship with a Hollywood star?
Then, the Duggars have 18 children and are welcoming one more into the family fold. But it's not what you think. The big announcement is coming up.
And the first dog has arrived. Washington's been begging for the low-down on Bo. Dog whispering Cesar Millan is here to tell us why he's the pick of the litter.
And I'll be talking to a Portuguese Water Dog -- woof -- on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
I'm Joy Behar sitting in for Larry.
We begin tonight with the case of Melissa Huckaby. She's the 28- year-old Sunday school teacher from Tracy, California. She's accused of kidnapping and killing 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.
Huckaby was arrested late Friday. Sandra went missing on March 27th. Her body found a week ago, on April 6th.
Here with the latest is Jennifer Wadsworth, reporter with the Tracy Press, who's been on top of the story. Jennifer interviewed Melissa before her arrest.
Hello, Jennifer.
JENNIFER WADSWORTH, REPORTER, TRACY PRESS: Hi.
BEHAR: Hi.
What's the latest on this case, Jennifer? WADSWORTH: Well, right -- right now, we're hearing that the D.A. wants to add charges of -- of sexual assault, rape with a foreign object. And that's something that we just heard today and we haven't confirmed it yet. I guess the criminal complaint is going to be available tomorrow. And she's scheduled to be arraigned tomorrow afternoon.
BEHAR: Now, these are allegations, correct?
WADSWORTH: Right.
BEHAR: We're going to say it's an alleged -- an alleged crime.
WADSWORTH: Right.
BEHAR: You interviewed Melissa Huckaby.
What -- what were your impressions of her?
You seem to be the only person who has interviewed her thus far.
Tell us what you thought.
WADSWORTH: Well, I was telling everyone else today that I thought she was a really well-spoken person. Her voice sounds intelligent. And she was calm. And I was just asking her whose black suitcase it was that Sandra's body was found in.
And she -- she told me that it was hers. That's basically why I was calling her. And she talked to me for 40 minutes about that. She talked about her stay in the hospital, where she said she was admitted for internal bleeding. And she talked about how sad she was about what happened to Sandra.
BEHAR: So now, in hine -- in hindsight, what did you think at that time?
I mean, now that we know that there are allegations against this woman, it's a little bit different now, don't you -- do you see?
And what did you think at the time?
Did you feel that she was innocent or what?
WADSWORTH: At the time, I was just intrigued that she had claimed ownership of the suitcase, because I knew that was an important part of story. So that's what I was interested in at the time. And then the next morning, I learned police had said the article -- that her interview with me had brought to light some -- some discrepancies between what she had told the police. And so it sort of put her under the microscope and so they had to go back and interview her.
BEHAR: So what was your reaction...
WADSWORTH: So at the time, I... BEHAR: Yes?
WADSWORTH: Oh, at the time, I didn't know how significant it was. And my reaction to that -- to knowing the role that the interview played...
BEHAR: Yes.
WADSWORTH: ...is just -- I was stunned. I had no idea. And I'm -- you know, I was just doing my job. And I just think it's really interesting. I thought it was interesting that she just talked to me so candidly and it makes -- looking back, I wish I'd have asked for questions, but I -- I could never have known what the...
BEHAR: No.
WADSWORTH: ...what the outcome would have been.
BEHAR: Of course not.
WADSWORTH: Yes.
BEHAR: And joining me now here in New York is HLN's Jane Velez- Mitchell.
She's the host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL".
Hi, Jane.
How are you?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN'S "ISSUES": Hey, good evening, Joy.
BEHAR: So what do you make of this case, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, if this is true, this really is a case of the killer next door.
If you can't trust a 28-year-old Sunday school teacher who is the granddaughter of the pastor of a local Baptist church, who is the mother of the friend, OK?
This is the mother of the little girl...
BEHAR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...the 5-year-old girl who used to play with the victim. And they lived five doors apart -- 75 yards away. So this is such a betrayal. Then you add this incomprehensible aspect that she is -- they are considering charging her with rape and molestation with a special circumstance of rape with a foreign object -- and we're going to learn more about that tomorrow when she's arraigned.
But I mean, if that's the case, this is one of the sickest cases that I've seen come down the pike in a long time. And I think the most shocking thing is that there are reports tonight that this woman who is accused of doing this attended a vigil for little Sandra. So there's...
BEHAR: Wow!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...there's...
BEHAR: So she's trying -- may be covering the tracks?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she was covering her tracks...
BEHAR: If she is...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...but that's insidious.
BEHAR: If she's guilty. We have to keep saying it's an allegation. I mean we don't know the truth yet about this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She hasn't even been formally charged.
BEHAR: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She's going to be formally charged tomorrow. The complaint will come out. When we see the complaint, we're going to get more details.
But authorities are saying, you know, very bluntly, that they really feel that they're not looking for anybody else.
BEHAR: So what -- what is your only unanswered question at this point?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why?
BEHAR: Do you have any?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why would a woman...
BEHAR: Yes, the motivation...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes...
BEHAR: Well, the motive, if it's -- if the allegation is it was sexual, that could be the motive, no?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But I mean she doesn't have a history of this. She has a history of having trouble keeping a job. She has a history of depression, according to her own relatives. She moved in with her grandfather about a year ago. They were -- they were opening their house to her to try to get her back on her feet. And, boy, did that decision bite them, because now their -- their lives are completely destroyed by this, as well. I mean this is devastating to this woman's family, as well.
And she has a history of petty theft, even though she says, oh, that's somebody with the same name, it's not me. BEHAR: But does she have a history of any sexual molestation, nothing like that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nothing we can find. She has no state prison record.
BEHAR: I mean this is -- this is really an incredible crime for someone -- a petty thief is what...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And unusual for a woman.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean let's face it. It's the...
BEHAR: Yes, let's talk about that part.
What do you -- what do you make of that?
I mean even the -- we have a guest coming up, Marlee Matlin...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BEHAR: ...who, she -- she also was molested by a woman. We're going to talk about that later. I mean it's sort of odd to hear about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it happens. I think that people are people and evil comes in many different disguises. I don't think you can just look at crime or criminality or evil intentions being one gender or one race or one age. Unfortunately, evil seeps through the fabric of -- of all humanity.
BEHAR: Some people would call it psychosis. You call it evil.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes.
BEHAR: That's interesting to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean it...
BEHAR: What's the difference, do you think?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, psychosis is a sickness. And I think evil is a sickness, as well. And I think that evil people, ultimately, we do have to treat them with compassion because they are very sick.
BEHAR: We should treat them with compassion even though they do these kinds of things to children?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean I think our society has to -- let's put it this way, we lock up more people in this country than any other country in the world and yet we're not solving these crime problems.
So we can't just do crime and punishment over and over again and over again. We've got to look at solutions. We've got to find out why, if, in fact, this woman is guilty -- and she hasn't even been formally charged, she hasn't been tried.
But if she's guilty, what happened in her life?
Was she sexually abused?
Why did she get to this point in her life, where she would take an innocent child who was skipping happily down the street the last time we saw her and commit these atrocities on her?
And this is happening all the time -- way too often in America. We've got to...
BEHAR: I know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We've got to look at and prevent this stuff.
BEHAR: Yes.
OK, thanks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
BEHAR: What happened to Sandra was evil, but should there be a legal definition of evil?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We're talking about the tragic death of an 8-year-old, Sandra Cantu.
Still with us is HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "ISSUES."
And joining us now, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner. He's the founder and chairman of The Forensic Panel.
But first, let's talk with Sergeant Tony Sheneman. He's the spokesman for the Tracy Police Department.
Hello, Sergeant Sheneman.
What made Huckaby suspicious?
SGT. TONY SHENEMAN, SPOKESMAN, TRACY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Inconsistent statements that she had made over the course of being spoken to during the initial canvas when we were looking for Sandra and then later on when she was interviewed prior to her interview with the Tracy Press. And then again when she was interviewed by the Tracy Press, all of her statements were fairly inconsistent.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
Is the investigation in the case still going on?
SHENEMAN: There's still work being done that needs to be completed for prosecution. However, all of the work that was done to identify the person who was responsible for Sandra Cantu's death has been completed. We had no indication that anyone else was involved. And if we did, we would have arrested those people at the same time.
BEHAR: OK. So there are no further arrests anticipated, then?
SHENEMAN: Correct.
BEHAR: OK.
Was molestation the motive?
SHENEMAN: We don't have a motive and we've been trying to determine one. She didn't give us one. And we can't come up with a reason why a mother would murder another mother's child.
BEHAR: But the allegation is that it was rape, kidnapping and rape with an object. It's kind of gruesome, what you're saying and what we're hearing.
What evidence do you actually have on the case that would lead us to those -- those statements?
SHENEMAN: I appreciate the question. Unfortunately...
BEHAR: You can't answer it.
SHENEMAN: I can't answer it right now.
BEHAR: OK. And the suspect, Melissa, is reportedly under suicide watch.
Is there a specific reason why she in particular is under a suicide watch or is everybody who is arrested in these type of cases under that?
SHENEMAN: Everyone who's arrested in these type of cases is put in an observation area for their own safety. According to the sheriff's department, she's made no statements that she wants to harm herself or is a danger to herself.
BEHAR: I see.
What -- what charges do you expect to be filing, exactly, tomorrow?
SHENEMAN: When she was -- when she was booked, she was booked on charges of kidnapping and murder. And we're informed by the district attorney that she'll be charged with abduction, murder, rape with a foreign object and lewd and lascivious acts with a child.
BEHAR: And how -- how is the community dealing with it?
It's a terrible, terrible crime.
How is everyone around there dealing with this? SHENEMAN: It's very difficult to accept that a member of your community would be responsible for such a heinous act. So we were hoping that we would begin the healing process. But with the additional charges, that's an additional blow, besides the fact that we found out it was a member of the community and a woman.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Sergeant.
SHENEMAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: We'll be keeping in touch with you.
Dr. Werner -- Welner, right?
OK.
What do you make of this case?
Now, you're a forensic psychiatrist.
First of all, these are allegations.
Do you think that she -- she's guilty?
DR. MICHAEL WELNER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I don't think that we are in a position to know. This isn't one of those cases where we have a lot of information, where there have been a lot of people saying this is the person. And we're not clear what the evidence is, other than inconsistent statements and perhaps a self-incriminating statement.
I would point out to you that in many of the sensational cases that we hear about, they don't make sense to any of us except the person who is responsible. This may have been a case that doesn't make sense to any of us and doesn't make sense to the perpetrator, either. It is possible, ala JonBenet Ramsey, that when she died, people, for example, like the -- the eminent forensic pathologist, Cyril Wecht, suggested that -- that she died during some kind of exploitation that went too far, she passed away.
And it's quite possible that what -- what happened to this tragic victim was unexpected and the...
BEHAR: So you're giving -- you're giving this alleged perpetrator the benefit of the doubt?
WELNER: Oh, absolutely. I think...
BEHAR: But you're not, Jane.
WELNER: No, but just a moment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I always give...
WELNER: I think it's responsible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...them the benefit of the doubt.
WELNER: She -- she may still have been an accomplice, an accessory, a witness. When -- it's important, from my perspective and experience in seeing false confessions happen, they happen in situations where a fragile person is overwhelmed by a forceful interrogation. And there's a tremendous amount of pressure on police to solve this crime. Even responsibly, someone can fumble all over themselves...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but she's -- she's saying things that are...
WELNER: ...and get in over their heads.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I think, first of all, we have to give credit to the law enforcement for doing a very, very efficient, fast job. And they seem very confident in their case. And when they say they're not looking for anybody else, that means something. And she said incriminating things to the reporter that you just spoke with in the previous segment.
BEHAR: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean she said that...
BEHAR: About the suitcase.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...she had a suitcase. And, of course, this little child was tragically found stuffed into a suitcase...
BEHAR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she had it on her driveway and it was taken away -- it was stolen on the very day that she disappeared.
BEHAR: That looks bad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She also said...
BEHAR: That doesn't look good.
WELNER: Oh, I'm not suggesting that I don't think she was responsible. I'm suggesting that a responsible approach for us all to take is to see that there is more to the story and to trust that the authorities are wise in not releasing information, because they have an advantage. It's a traumatized community. People want to cooperate with authorities. And something may come forward. There is more to the story. We don't know what that...
BEHAR: Well, we're going to...
WELNER: ...more to the story is. BEHAR: We're going to keep -- this story is -- has -- is going on for several days, I think.
WELNER: But people don't do this all the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, this is going to go on for a long time.
WELNER: And that's the point.
BEHAR: Yes, but how (INAUDIBLE)...
WELNER: It's a crime that doesn't happen all the time. It's a crime that happens unbelievably rarely.
BEHAR: It's not...
WELNER: And so...
BEHAR: It's not unusual -- it's unusual, isn't it, for a woman to kill another person's child?
WELNER: Absolutely. And even the nature of the -- the allegations that are being suggested here are very unusual. And so your -- your first instinct should be, from a professional standpoint...
BEHAR: Yes.
WELNER: ...to wait for the evidence to come to you, because anything's possible.
BEHAR: OK.
Thank you very much.
Actress Marlee Matlin opens -- opens up about the abuse she suffered as a child.
Did it lead to drugs and destructive love affairs.
Shocking stories from the Academy Award winner next.
Thanks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Marlee Matlin's incredible -- am I saying it right?
Marlee Matlin. Her incredible career has taken her from stage to movies to TV.
Before we get to her private life, let's take a look at the Marlee we all know in some of her award-winning performances.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY PARAMOUNT HOME ENTERTAINMENT)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me go to him with it. Let Bruno.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY SHOWTIME)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak. Speak to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARLEE MATLIN, ACTRESS: Oh, my. Oh, God. You scared me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY CBS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My husband didn't kill Alison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn't my question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You speak with your eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY NBC)
MATLIN: I know what pain is. I live with it every day. You don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "SESAME STREET," COURTESY PBS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is Marlee Matlin.
MATLIN: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, hi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Joining us now is Marlee Matlin and her interpreter, Jack.
Hi, Marlee.
Very nice to have you here.
MATLIN (through interpreter): It is such a pleasure to be -- and, by the way, as a matter of fact, I want to start by saying this is my copy of the book that I gave to you and I'm giving you to you.
BEHAR: Oh, thank you very much.
MATLIN (through interpreter): And congratulations on your book. BEHAR: Oh, yes.
MATLIN (through interpreter): And you look much prettier in person than you do on "SNL."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Because Fred Armisen is playing me.
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes. Well, OK.
BEHAR: That's why I look better in person.
MATLIN (through interpreter): So that's television, right?
BEHAR: Yes?
Ah, who cares?
So what?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So, Marlee, before we get into your book, I want to just ask you a serious question about what we were just talking about.
What do you make of this Sand -- this woman -- this poor girl, this little Sandra Cantu case?
MATLIN (through interpreter): You know what?
It really breaks my heart. It's -- I mean, there are millions of other parents of children that I can't even imagine or fathom how any human being could go through and not -- and turn out to be un-human, as this person is, especially seeing the video of the little girl just narrowly stepping down the street. It just really breaks my heart.
BEHAR: OK. Marlee is no stranger to abuse.
We'll talk about her experiences when we return.
Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK. I'm here with Marlee Matlin. Her book is called "I'll Scream Later."
Marlee, what does it mean, "I'll Scream Later?"
MATLIN (through interpreter): Well, the title comes -- I mean it goes way, way back to when I was in rehab. And I was asked -- because I got nominated for the Academy Awards while I was in rehab. And Jack asked me over the phone, what -- what -- what do you -- you know, what do you want to say?
The press wants an answer.
And I said, well, I mean this is the wrong place to say I'm here. I couldn't tell them. The counselors were looking at me. I couldn't say anything. So I said, I'll scream later.
BEHAR: I see. I see. OK. Now, the...
MATLIN (through interpreter): But now it actually means that I'm screaming now.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN (through interpreter): I'm screaming now about all the things that...
BEHAR: You're screaming now about everything now.
MATLIN (through interpreter): Exactly.
BEHAR: Yes. This book tells a lot.
MATLIN (through interpreter): It tells a lot more than I anticipated I would.
BEHAR: Well, yes. You felt the need now to -- to tell the story.
MATLIN (through interpreter): You know what, I felt the need because it was time. It was time to tell the truth.
After I did "Dancing With The Stars," so many e-mails came, so many fan letters came saying how inspiring I was, from Facebook and MySpace. And they saw me on TV dancing and they thought, well, a deaf person can dance. Good for you. Wow! She can't hear the music. She can dance. Wow!
And that's fine. But I wanted to pass along the message that there was much more to me than that -- you know, who I've been growing up and more to me than just the woman who could dance or the woman who can act.
BEHAR: OK. Let's talk about...
MATLIN (through interpreter): It was time. It was time.
BEHAR: Let's talk about -- I see.
Let's talk about the book a little bit.
Now, you -- you were arrested at age 11 by a 16-year-old female babysitter?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes.
BEHAR: Yes?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Unfortunately, yes.
BEHAR: How did that impact your life, Marlee?
MATLIN (through interpreter): It -- in a strange way, I probably -- it may not so sound so strange, but those who might have been through that experience, I masked it and I covered it up. And I masked it with drugs. And I masked it, you know, at a very early age with drugs. And all the other things, I just pushed it aside. I never told anyone. I never told my parents. And yet, though, I never forgot it.
BEHAR: No. Of course not.
So you make the connection that the drugs are a direct response...
MATLIN (through interpreter): I think in a big way...
BEHAR: ...to the molestation?
MATLIN (through interpreter): I think in a big way, yes, they were. I mean subconsciously, yes, back in the -- in the back of my mind it was.
BEHAR: You never told anybody when it happened?
MATLIN (through interpreter): No. I never -- I told no one.
BEHAR: Who was the...
MATLIN (through interpreter): No one.
BEHAR: Who was the first person you did tell?
MATLIN (through interpreter): That's a good question.
BEHAR: Do you remember?
MATLIN (through interpreter): I probably -- it was probably my husband. My husband.
BEHAR: Your husband that you have now, your present husband?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MATLIN (through interpreter): I only have one husband.
BEHAR: But...
MATLIN (through interpreter): Only one husband.
BEHAR: You've only been married once.
MATLIN (through interpreter): Only once. BEHAR: Yes.
And you're married a long time, too, right?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Almost 16 years.
BEHAR: Yes.
And he's a policeman?
MATLIN (through interpreter): He's a policeman and he's hot.
BEHAR: OK. And then...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know. I haven't -- I have to look for his picture in the book.
OK. Now the other thing is that you were then -- you were then molested again when you were in -- I guess in high school, when you were 14 -- by a teacher.
MATLIN (through interpreter): It was a teacher who I looked up to and became friendly with. And you know how things go. At the time, I was thinking, well -- I mean it was all a matter of -- I wanted -- you know, it's simple, is I wanted good grades, you know, and I wanted his approval.
BEHAR: You wanted good grades. So but then you...
MATLIN (through interpreter): But actually, not good grades. I got back. I wanted to -- I wanted passing grades.
BEHAR: You wanted passing grades.
And so he sort of lured you into his apartment?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes. You know, it was sort of give and take, you know -- you take this, I'll give you this. You get this, I'll give you this.
BEHAR: But then you continued to see him, am I right?
MATLIN (through interpreter): I did continue. And when I found out 10 years later -- after graduating from high school, I found out that I wasn't the only one at the time, that other women in school had the same experience.
BEHAR: When you were 14 and this happened to you, did...
MATLIN (through interpreter): Fourteen going on 15.
BEHAR: Fifteen. Did you think it was molestation or did you think you were having a relationship with a teacher?
MATLIN (through interpreter): I knew it was wrong. I knew it was wrong.
BEHAR: You did?
MATLIN (through interpreter): One, and the reason why, because he was married.
BEHAR: He was married.
MATLIN (through interpreter): And I didn't think -- well, you know, it was illegal. I mean that didn't even pop in my mind. I never thought of that at the time. I was never taught, I was never told -- I was never told what was right and what was wrong about the situation.
And at the time, I'm thinking it's wrong because he's married.
BEHAR: Let me ask you something, you know, because you're -- you're a non-hearing person, what's the politically correct way to describe this now?
MATLIN (through interpreter): Deaf.
BEHAR: Deaf?
Deaf. OK.
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes.
BEHAR: Because you were a deaf child, a deaf young girl, do you think that that played into all of the -- the molestations that you described -- the babysitter and then this teacher?
MATLIN (through interpreter): It could be. It could be -- it's possible. The babysitter...
BEHAR: Did they see you as easy prey?
MATLIN (through interpreter): The babysitter wasn't deaf, so it was possible.
BEHAR: No. Well, no, she was, though. You were. And I'm saying...
MATLIN (through interpreter): And I'm deaf.
BEHAR: Did they see you as an easier...
MATLIN (through interpreter): They could have taken advantage of me because I was deaf. They could have...
BEHAR: Yes. MATLIN (through interpreter): Because as in anyone -- I mean, really, it's all about taking advantage of a child, whether they're deaf or hearing.
BEHAR: I understand that. I'm just wondering if it happens even more often to a handicapped child.
MATLIN (through interpreter): You know what, I wouldn't know. I don't know. No.
BEHAR: OK...
MATLIN (through interpreter): I mean I know that there are a lot of deaf children who are -- who have been subject to molestations, probably more so. But I -- you know, I don't know the statistics.
The teacher was someone we all looked up to.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN (through interpreter): And, unfortunately, the situation happened. And I got pulled in. I got lured in.
BEHAR: OK. I want to also talk about your relationship with -- with the actor William Hurt.
MATLIN (through interpreter): Yes.
BEHAR: We'll talk about Marlee's relationship with a Hollywood star, William Hurt -- we know who he is -- that went horribly wrong, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK. We're back with Marlee Matlin and her interpreter over here, who -- I said I feel like you're talking behind my back.
(LAUGHTER)
MATLIN: But we are.
BEHAR: You are.
(LAUGHTER)
JACK: We are, yes.
BEHAR: All right.
All right, let's talk about William Hurt.
What's -- what's the deal between the two of you?
Was it love?
Was it lust? Did you over identify with the roles in "Children of A Lesser God?"
What -- what happened there?
MATLIN (through interpreter): You know what, actually, we started our relationship during the end of the screen test process for "Children of A Lesser God" before I even got the role.
BEHAR: Oh.
MATLIN (through interpreter): And it continued until I got the role. And it continued throughout the film. And it continued after. And I lived with him with for two years.
BEHAR: And you said in the book that the sex with him was spectacular. Now you've piqued my interest.
(LAUGHTER)
MATLIN (through interpreter): Hey, well, you know. I can second that.
BEHAR: How spectacular?
Can we have a few details here?
MATLIN (through interpreter): You know, actually, we were in love.
BEHAR: You were in love?
MATLIN (through interpreter): We were. We were truly in love in a relationship, but it -- part of that was love-hate. I mean I was battling my drug addiction at the time.
BEHAR: What kind of drugs were you using?
MATLIN (through translator): Pot, cocaine, and --
BEHAR: Alcohol, too?
MATLIN (through translator): No alcohol. Alcohol was never my thing. I did drink, you know, maybe in the presence of friends. But it was never my thing.
BEHAR: He was doing drugs, too?
MATLIN (through translator): With me. With me, yes.
BEHAR: He was doing coke, also.
MATLIN (through translator): But alcohol was his preference, with me.
BEHAR: Tell me about the abusive part of the relationship with him? Was he physically abusive or verbally?
MATLIN (through translator): Well, it was -- you know what, it is not easy to talk about it.
BEHAR: I know.
MATLIN (through translator): But it happened and it's -- I was 19 and he was 35. And I had just come out of a four-year relationship with a guy back home in Chicago. And that was a great relationship.
BEHAR: Oh.
MATLIN (through translator): And he never laid a hand on me. And I met William Hurt, and it was a completed 360 degree -- I didn't understand what this was about. It was both of us. It was -- I mean, there was so much going on with the film, with him being older, me being younger, not seeing eye to eye on a lot of things, and being drunk and being high and all meshing together in one big --
BEHAR: Was there violence?
MATLIN (through translator): There was violence.
BEHAR: Sometimes?
MATLIN (through translator): All the time.
BEHAR: He's a big fellow. He might have hurt you. You are a small girl.
MATLIN (through translator): But I kick butt.
BEHAR: You kicked him back?
MATLIN (through translator): Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN (through translator): I had to. I had to. I had to.
BEHAR: But you stayed. Why did you say?
MATLIN (through translator): I didn't know how to leave. I didn't have friends in New York. That's where I was living. I didn't know that you could ask for help. I didn't know that you could call 911. I didn't know. I didn't know that you could ask your neighbor.
Now I know. And for anyone who's in this kind of relationship, look, it's hard. It's hard to get out when you don't know. I can understand that.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN (through translator): You think you're going to lose everything. You think you're going to lose your life. You think you're going to lose your job, lose your friends if you tell somebody, which is not true. All you have do is open the doorknob and walk out the door and talk to anyone you see and say, I need help.
BEHAR: I know. You hear this story often from women who have been abused by men.
MATLIN (through translator): Too often.
BEHAR: They can't leave. They don't know how to leave. Knowing what you know today, would you have pressed charges against him if you had known?
MATLIN (through translator): Absolutely.
BEHAR: You would have?
MATLIN (through translator): Absolutely.
BEHAR: So it was very serious. Has he ever apologized to you?
MATLIN (through translator): No.
BEHAR: He has not.
MATLIN (through translator): No.
BEHAR: OK, do you have contact with him? You're very nice to him in the book. You have an acknowledgment in the book for William Hurt.
MATLIN (through translator): Look, he is a very good actor.
BEHAR: Yes, he is.
MATLIN (through translator): I have nothing but the utmost respect for the work we had together. I was a fan of his before I met him. "Altered States," "The Big Chill;" come on, they were great films. I was excited to work with him. I thought, you know what, here's this great older man whom I can learn a great deal from. And I was wrong.
BEHAR: But if he hasn't apologized and you still -- you feel that he was very wrong in the way he behaved, why do you acknowledge --
MATLIN (through translator): If he apologized, I would forgive him, but I won't forget.
BEHAR: You won't forget, no. But you've forgiven him in this book. it seems to me. Now that you have -- go ahead.
MATLIN (through translator): How else am I going to live? How else am I going to live? You have to try to find the heart to forgive.
BEHAR: You're a good girl. You're a nice girl.
MATLIN (through translator): I said I added you're a good Jewish girl.
BEHAR: Did you go to an sader last week?
MATLIN (through translator): Yes, I did. I was invited to a wonderful sader at my friend's house. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for cooking so wonderfully.
BEHAR: You are, to me -- I watched you over the years and even on "Dancing With the Stars." You are a strong, a very talented actress. You are a role model for a lot of young people that see you as someone who has struggled and came through. In this book, are you afraid this is going to change the way people see you?
MATLIN (through translator): No, no.
BEHAR: You are more of a victim in this book than you are as an actress Marlee Matlin.
MATLIN (through translator): You know what? The message is that if I -- I knew when I wrote the book that I would show people I was able to overcome it all. How else could I be here today if I hadn't overcome it? It's all inside me. But I know there's so many people out there for whom my message, hearing this message, can help them. And they could do something on their own.
It is as simple as that. I hope I can inspire many more people than just being the deaf person dancing on "Dancing With the Stars." I'm not worried about losing fans. Or I'm not worried about all that kind of stuff. I trust that I will just gain from this experience.
BEHAR: You know, it says here that you were in drug rehab in Betty Ford when you were nominated.
MATLIN (through translator): Yes, I was. I was in there for a month.
BEHAR: For "Children of a Lesser God."
MATLIN (through translator): I was nominated my second week. My counselor woke me up at 5:30 in the morning. I thought, you know what? Somebody died. That's what happens when you get called in the middle of the night. They said, no, no, everything is fine. I -- Jack was the one who told me on the phone.
BEHAR: You?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I was a tele-typer then.
MATLIN (through translator): It is always about jack. I like saying that about myself.
BEHAR: You can talk. You seem to be able to talk. You don't want to? Would you rather sign?
MATLIN (through translator): I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would rather sign? She says she pays me to do this.
MATLIN: Can't be here for nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm doing this for volunteer work.
MATLIN (through translator): No, no. I got nominated while I was in rehab, of all places, of all places. I am thinking, you know what, that would be good for a book.
BEHAR: You have a book here, girl. You have a book here. You were not born deaf. You lost your hearing.
MATLIN (through translator): I became deaf when I was 18 months old. And I was raised in Chicago. Very proud of Chicago. And I learned to sign when I was five years old. I went to public mainstream schools with a deaf program in it. And that's what life was for me. It was a great childhood, actually. Despite what happened, I had a great childhood. I have good memories and I had great friends.
BEHAR: You have a great life now. You're married to a great guy, policeman, happily married. You have children.
MATLIN (through translator): I have four wonderful children, 13, eight, six and five.
BEHAR: Who's better than you, Marlee.
MATLIN (through translator): Maybe you.
BEHAR: I want to thank Marlee and Jack. We have this note, LARRY KING LIVE reached out to William Hurt seeking a response to Marlee's memoir and the allegations she makes about him. His representatives declined to comment.
Next, we'll shift gears, lots of them. The Duggars from 18 kids and counting are here with some surprising news, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Welcome back. They already have 18 kids. And now another one's on the way. But this time, it is a little different. Joining us now is the Duggar family. You know them from TLC's "18 and Counting." Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are the parents. But also with us, Josh and Anna Duggar. Josh is the oldest of the Duggar kids and Anna is his wife.
Hi, everybody. How are you all?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So what's the big news?
JOSH DUGGAR, "18 AND COUNTING": The big news is that my wife and I found out that we are expecting.
BEHAR: Oh, you mean Michelle is not pregnant again? Michelle --
I thought, oh my god, not another one.
MICHELLE DUGGAR, "18 AND COUNTING": We're kind of falling behind.
BEHAR: So you're going to be grandparents this time?
M. DUGGAR: Yes! Isn't that awesome.
JIM BOB DUGGAR, "18 AND COUNTING": We are really excited about being grandparents.
M. DUGGAR: We are so excited for Josh and Anna.
BEHAR: How old is your youngest child at this point, Michelle, that baby on your life.
M. DUGGAR: Little Jordan, yes, she is four months old, four months.
BEHAR: Four months. Well, so, you are up to 18. Are we going to make it 19 or a nice even 20?
JB DUGGAR: I have always left it up to Michelle.
M. DUGGAR: We would love more and I think it would be great. I guess we'll just wait and see.
JB. DUGGAR: I'm 43 and Michelle is 42. And we don't know if we'll be able to have anymore or not.
M. DUGGAR: We would like more.
J. DUGGAR: They're passing it on to us.
M. DUGGAR: Passing on the torch here.
BEHAR: I can't believe that you would want more, Michelle. I know that you are a wonderful parent because I have met your children. But how many more can you handle?
M. DUGGAR: Well, I think that each one of these children are a gift. They're a precious gift from god. And I feel like to -- you know, I've heard it said that to say that there's too many children is like saying there's too many flowers. And I really feel that way. They're just a lot of fun, a lot of responsibility, but a lot of joy.
BEHAR: I know. I agree with you. Children are like flowers. But spread them around. Other people's flowers. OK? Most wives tell their husbands when they're pregnant. But Josh actually told Anna they were having a baby. This you have to see. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. DUGGAR: You have joined the mommy team. ANNA DUGGAR, "18 AND COUNTING": A baby. Oh!
J. DUGGAR: You're pregnant.
A. DUGGAR: We are?
J. DUGGAR: You're pregnant.
A. DUGGAR: Baby. For real?
J. DUGGAR: For real. The test had two bars on it, baby.
A. DUGGAR: Oh, good.
J. DUGGAR: Congratulations.
A. DUGGAR: Congratulations, daddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, well, that's a switch. Joshua is telling Anna that she's pregnant. How did that happen? Doesn't the wife usually tell the husband?
A. DUGGAR: Yes. Usually that's the way it goes. But I had taken some pregnancy tests earlier, and they were negative. And I was looking forward to having children and being a mommy. And I had been disappointed before. And so I took the test but I didn't want to be disappointed again. And I told josh, I said, I can't look at the test. You have to look at it. And I said, you can just wait and tell me whenever you want to.
I thought the odds were -- we had only been married for three months. So I thought we probably weren't pregnant yet.
J. DUGGAR: And so it was like the longest three minutes of her life. I went in and saw the test. And I found out and I'm like, wow, I'm going to be a father. So really kind of an incredible thought, like wow. So I chose -- I came out and didn't -- was kind of calm, cool and collected about it. I was like, I'll tell you when we get home. And that's the footage you just saw right there. Actual when we got it and it was really cool. I told her and she was like, wow.
BEHAR: The Duggars never do anything the way everybody else does. So I'm not really surprised about that. And Anna and Josh, I understand you saved yourselves for marriage. And when I say saved, I mean you didn't even kiss before you got married. Is that right?
J. DUGGAR: That's right.
A. DUGGAR: Yes, ma'am. We enjoyed it, though.
BEHAR: When you finally kissed? Yes.
J. DUGGAR: Yes. It is really -- it is really a neat thing, because when you save yourself for the one that god has for you, it's very rewarding. And I think as an encouragement to a lot of young people, it really is hard. It is tough. And it goes against what, you know, everyone else is doing. But I know that when you enter into marriage that way, you know that that person saved themselves, and it's a mutual commitment that you have with each other. When you go in, you can have total trust when you are in that relationship.
BEHAR: Well --
J. DUGGAR: We looked forward to marriage. I can say that.
BEHAR: Yes. I can imagine. But it certainly makes for a more fun honeymoon, I suppose.
J. DUGGAR: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: More with the Duggars ahead. We'll be back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The Duggars are getting ready for their first grandchild, as you heard earlier. Want to know what it was like to get ready Anna and Josh's wedding with all those brothers and sisters? take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. DUGGAR: No privacy right now.
A. DUGGAR: This is where we're getting ready.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hot.
A. DUGGAR: Having ten bridesmaids all trying to squeeze into a bathroom and do their hair, we just stopped talking and just concentrated on, we've got to get our hair done. We got to get ready.
Too many girls in here and we're not talking at all. We all have our own things going on.
J. DUGGAR: Love you.
A. DUGGAR: My baby boy.
J. DUGGAR: Always, always be that.
A. DUGGAR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was kind of sad for my mom sending off the first son. But we also kind of look at it in a way of gaining another sister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to introduce to you Mr. And Mrs. Joshua James Duggar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. More with the Duggars when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BEHAR: OK, we're back with the Duggars for a few more minutes. I want to ask you, Josh and Anne -- Anna. How many children do you want to have?
J. DUGGAR: Well, you know what? I mean, being from a large family, it's always been a very exciting experience, and every day is always, you know -- you never know what to expect. And so I would love to have a large family, but god only blesses us with two or three, I'd be glad with that as well. I always leave it up to my wife.
A. DUGGAR: I love children. They're a blessing.
BEHAR: You do. But if all 18 of this generation of Duggar kids marry and each has 18 kids, that will be 324 more Duggars. And they'll all have names beginning with J. We're running out of J names.
J. DUGGAR: Everybody asks us if we're going to continue the theme. My dad said we should start with Jim Bob. I said, well, I might scratch that idea and go with something else. We'll see. We're thinking M. We're not really sure. We might go with another theme.
BEHAR: Oh, M, yes. Mary, Margaret, Meredith.
J. DUGGAR: We already have a Joy. Otherwise we went with Joy, you know.
BEHAR: You have a Joy-Anna, right? Which one is Joy-Anna? Wave your hand, Joy.
J. DUGGAR: Joy-Anna's right here. Right there.
BEHAR: Is she there? OK. All right.
J. DUGGAR: She's right to my right here.
BEHAR: Jim Bob, do you have any advice for your son?
JB. DUGGAR: Well, I tell you what, the advice we would give is to train up their child to love god with their heart in life, and to train them to serve others and to treat other people like they want to be treated.
BEHAR: Of course. According to the latest issue of "People Magazine," you guys only pay -- the Duggar family, the 18 kids, you only pay 417 dollars a month for health insurance. How do I get on that plan? Because that's a lot of people on that health insurance for 475. That's pretty good.
JB. DUGGAR: Well, it is, but actually, we have, like, a 2,500 deductible, and then also it doesn't cover maternity. There's several different things it doesn't cover.
J. DUGGAR: And I'm not on the plan anymore, so yes.
BEHAR: Does it include dental? You need dental also, right? All those kids.
JB. DUGGAR: Dental, it covers about half of the dental costs.
BEHAR: I'm sure there are braces and everything else, right? Do you think it will be --
JB. DUGGAR: That's been out of pocket.
BEHAR: Do you think it will be easier to be grandparents than it was parents, Michelle? What do you think?
M. DUGGAR: Well, I've heard that it's a great experience. I am looking forward to finding out about that. I heard it's wonderful to be a grandparent.
BEHAR: I know. They say that -- people say if I knew how great it was going to be, I would have done it first. Check, please. OK. Thank you, guys. It's always fun to talk to you. Keep up the good work. You have wonderful children. You have a great family. Thank you very much.
J. DUGGAR: Take care, Joy. Have a good night.
BEHAR: Thank you. OK, good night. The Obamas finally have a pet. Hear about the White House's new canine in chief and maybe a little surprise next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Guess what screen legend Doris Day has been up to. She's been blogging for Larry. Yes. Go to CNN.com/LarryKing and check it out. Doris Day has written an exclusive commentary about her love for animals.
April is Animal Cruelty Prevention Month, and Doris speaks from her heart. You can even see photos of Doris with her dogs. CNN.com/LarryKing.
And speaking of dogs, we have one with us now here in the studio. Yes, Splash is a Portuguese Water Dog. And Elena Gretch is her trainer, the founder of It's a Dog's Life. Also joining us in Los Angeles is the fabulous Cesar Milan, host of National Geographic's "Dog Whisperer." Hey, Cesar.
CESAR MILAN, "THE DOG WHISPERER": Hey, Joy.
BEHAR: Cesar came to my house one time. Very nice to have you too. Cesar came to my house and tried to train me to train my dog. It didn't work. Once you left, Cesar, they went back to being beastly.
MILAN: I told you you've got to be consistent. You've got to be consistent, Joy.
BEHAR: I can't be consistent 24/7. You have to move in with me. There's no other solution.
MILAN: Absolutely. Anytime.
BEHAR: OK. So the Portuguese water dog, a good pick for Obama?
ELENA GRETCH, FOUNDER, IT'S A DOG'S LIFE: Fantastic pick for Obama. Portuguese Water Dogs can make great household companions. They're an intelligent breed. They're very trainable. They have a great temperament. And they are hypo-allergenic, which is important, because of the girls' allergies.
BEHAR: That's true. Malia --
GRETCH: Malia.
BEHAR: Malia has an allergy. Cesar, based on your observation of the Obamas, do you think this is the kind of dog they should have gotten? What do you think?
MILAN: Well, it has all the qualities that they're looking for, hypo-allergenic, first of all, medium-size dog. But what I really would like for me to know is if they picked up a medium-level energy dog. If they pick up a medium-level energy dog, they're on the right path.
BEHAR: Well, this is a medium-energy dog, isn't it?
GRETCH: Portuguese water dog is a working dog. So it does have high energy, but it is also very bright and trainable, and learns how to respond to the situation that it's in.
BEHAR: We're in a recession. How much work is he doing?
GRETCH: She does a lot of stuff.
BEHAR: Oh, it's a girl.
GRETCH: She actually did my taxes. She's been really busy.
BEHAR: Splash, look at me, baby. You're so cute. Look at that face.
GRETCH: Don't call her a poodle.
BEHAR: Don't call her a poodle? Are you a poodle? Are you a poodle?
GRETCH: Splash, are you a poodle?
BEHAR: She doesn't like to be called a poodle. Why?
GRETCH: People often mistake Portuguese Water Dogs for Poodles. Portuguese Water Dogs are a very old bread dating back to the 13th century. It's actually believed that the poodle was derived from the early Portuguese Water Dog.
BEHAR: Really? It does look a little like a poodle. I don't want to say the P word. You know, originally, the Obamas said that they were going to go for a shelter dog. That's what he promised. And this is not -- Bo, the dog that they have from the Kennedy -- from Teddy Kennedy -- is not a shelter dog. So do you think that he reneged on his promise, or what?
GRETCH: I don't think so, because Bo was an animal -- was a dog that was returned, because he wasn't working out in the lifestyle of the family that purchased him originally. Bo still needed a home. At six months, it's hard to sell a pure breed dog. So they really stepped up and offered a good thing.
BEHAR: I know my girl -- one of my girlfriends, Suzie, she has a rescued Shih Tsu that she got online. It was a rescue service that has Shih Tsus. And they're pure breads. Cesar, does this breed wind up in shelters often, do you think? Are there shelters for Portuguese Water Dogs?
MILAN: You know, we just rescued a dog, we actually saved a Portuguese water dog's life. They were going to put him down because the dog bit somebody. So like she said, they're a working-type dog. So they really have to be very consistent with the exercise, the rules, boundaries, and limitations, of course, the affection. But you have to keep them busy, obviously. It's very important for them to be challenged.
BEHAR: Well, Cesar always talks about how exercise is the most important thing, right? Even more important than food, although tell that to a dog.
GRETCH: Well, exercise is definitely important aspect of their lifestyle. But at the White House, they have that huge lawn. There's a swimming pool, I hear. They're close to the Potomac. I think this dog will adjust very well to its new lifestyle.
BEHAR: Cesar, in ten seconds, can you just say one piece of advice to the Obamas?
MILAN: Everybody should be the pack leader. You know it's all about being the pack leader. Everybody has to be on the same way of fulfilling, you know, the new dog, Bo. And the girls have to be the pack leader as well.
BEHAR: Thank you so much, both of you, for coming on. Don't forget to check out Doris Day's blog on CNN.com/LarryKing. Larry returns tomorrow night with Sharon Stone. Time now for Anderson Cooper and thank you for letting me sit here again, Larry.
