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Nancy Grace
State Will Seek Death Penalty in Casey Anthony Case
Aired April 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we confirm that in the last hours, Florida prosecutors reverse their decision. After months with the death penalty, quote, "off the table," in a stunning about-face, the state brings down the hammer and announces they will seek the death penalty against tot mom Casey Anthony. But why now? Reports emerge that highly technical soil samples found on tot mom`s shoes link her directly to that swampy crime scene. Is tot mom in line to sit on Florida`s death row, facing death by needle, death by lethal injection?
This while the first deputy called to the spot where Caylee`s body`s hidden is fired. Because of him, was vital forensic evidence lost forever? We also learn George Anthony heads back for round two. That`s right, grandfather George back on the hot seat under oath. We also learn the defense plans to point the finger at somebody else as the killer. But who? Tot mom`s defense demanding private phone and cell records of nearly a dozen family, friends, acquaintances in their attempt to locate a scapegoat. We have the names.
And tonight: This man conducted his own private search of the exact location where Caylee`s skeleton hidden. Not once, not twice, but at least three times he searched. What did he know? Keith Williams with us live tonight, taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence, which I guess is my point in all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say you`ll take it as far as you need to to prove your innocence, what do you mean?
CASEY ANTHONY: Serving the indictment today and the warrant for my arrest, everything else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The death penalty is back on the table as of late this afternoon. The state attorney`s office filed a motion seeking the death penalty, and they`re citing sufficient aggravating circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think there`s any evidence that`s been released that shows the heinous, atrocious and cruel aggravator exists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They must feel that they have sufficient aggravators based on finding the body and the additional evidence that that gave the prosecution.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Go there. Go there, Mr. Morgan. She didn`t fight with me, sir. No. No, let it go. Let him look like an ass on the thing (ph).
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I`ve already answered that. This is not the lady. When I get up out of here, I want to walk over to her and shake her hand and tell her I`m sorry.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done.
GEORGE ANTHONY: You`d better get this over in five minutes. I`m giving you five minutes more of my time. Otherwise (INAUDIBLE) I`m walking out of here.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m tired of getting beat up. He asked me a question, and he won`t let me finish it.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m over this. I`m over you. I`m over all this other stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news, Tracy, California. The search for 8-year- old Sandra Cantu comes to an end, her body found locked in a suitcase in a nearby irrigation pond. In the last 24 hours, a suspect in custody. But no, not just any suspect. It`s no common thug off the streets. It`s not a child sex predator. No. It is a 28-year-old Sunday school teacher, a female Sunday school teacher charged in the sex assault and death of an 8- year-old little girl. Did the murder take place in the church? Is no place safe?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the Sandra Cantu case. How could a loving mother, a Sunday school teacher, the granddaughter of a community pastor, be accused of killing little Sandra Cantu? Here`s the one who is accused, 28-year-old Melissa Huckaby. Sandra was her 5-year-old daughter`s playmate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sandra was like a daughter to me. I can`t imagine a mother doing this to a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re very, very shocked. It`s very out of character for Melissa. We love her dearly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police arrested her on suspicion of kidnapping and murder. The little girl was found in the suitcase still in her Hello Kitty T-shirt. And it gets worse. The police may soon file rape and molestation charges against Huckaby. In fact, the charges are significant enough that the DA could even request the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. A bombshell tonight. As we go to air, in the last hours, prosecutors reverse their decision. The state of Florida will seek the death penalty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any interest in helping us?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. Unfortunately, my hands were literally tied and I was put in a position where someone`s trying to trick a confession out of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t want to...
CASEY ANTHONY: And that`s not going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state`s attorney office just filed a motion to seek the death penalty against her. Now, this means a possible death sentence back on the table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman has no priors. She`s never had contact with the law before. There`s no other prior violent felonies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going to argue that it was especially heinous, atrocious and cruel -- HAC, as we call it.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have not heard my granddaughter`s voice since June 16th of 2008. Do not ask me that again, sir, because I will walk out of here.
CINDY ANTHONY: Someone touches me, I`m going to file harassment charges. Someone`s touching me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometime during the time she was missing before the remains were found, did...
GEORGE ANTHONY: You know something? If you say "her remains" one more time, sir, I`m walking out this door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: How dare you say that about my granddaughter? How dare you? How dare you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
CINDY ANTHONY: I know you don`t (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not shutting up. Are you telling me I can`t pray?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter, joining us there in Orlando. In a stunning about-face, a real twist, the state is now announcing it will seek the death penalty against tot mom Casey Anthony. Mark Williams, why the about-face?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, they sent a letter of intent. The state attorney`s office sent a letter of intent saying that, We`re going to seek the death penalty once again in this case. They`re citing mitigating circumstances, Nancy, contending that Casey Anthony caused the death of a child under the age of 12 years old and that Casey (SIC) was particularly vulnerable due to the fact that Casey was her mother.
Remember, the state had taken the death penalty off the table late last year. That was before they found little Caylee`s body. But now they have all the evidence in totality. Also, Jose Baez -- can he try the death penalty case of the tot mom? It`s tough to say. He has less than five years` experience. That`s what the Florida bar requires. And he really has not tried any death penalty cases. He must try at least three cases over the course of five years to take on this case. He`s going to have to have some heavy guns with him, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Mark Williams is correct. In every state in this country, in every jurisdiction, to try a death penalty case, to be solo chair or first chair, the lead attorney, you have to have X amount of experience under your belt. Baez doesn`t have it. So who will they bring onto the team? And also, Kathi Belich, I`m having a hard time buying Williams`s explanation as to why they`re seeking the death penalty. I`ve known since she went missing that little Caylee was only 2 years old. It`s no surprise that she`s suddenly under 12 years of age. We`ve known that all along.
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s right. Well, there are other aggravating factors, some of which he mentioned. But the others are heinous, cruel, atrocious, cold, calculated, premeditated, that the murder was committed during a case of aggravated child abuse. Casey is charged with aggravated child abuse, as well. Also that -- as he mentioned, that Caylee was vulnerable to Casey as her mother.
With that additional evidence that was recovered at the scene, the duct tape, the heart sticker, other evidence that seems to tie the crime scene to the Anthonys` home, has stronger evidence and shows more premeditation and shows more cruelty. It shows more calculatedness on the part of the killer. And those are things that probably are under consideration.
GRACE: Also, reports have emerged that highly technical forensic evidence, soil samples off tot mom Casey Anthony`s shoes found in her car, match back up to the location where Caylee`s tiny skeleton was discovered.
Out to our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. Ellie, aggravated child abuse, could that be the underlying felony which is causing the state to now announce it will seek the death penalty?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it could be, Nancy. When the state announced back on December 5th that they weren`t going to seek the death penalty, they were waiving the death penalty for Casey Anthony, remember, Caylee`s body had not yet been found. Her body was found on December 11th. So we don`t know if it could be the soil from the shoes, if there`s something else that definitively links Casey Anthony to that crime scene.
GRACE: And Ellie, when they say the possible felony -- very often, when a murder occurs during a felony, a death occurs during a felony, it`s grounds for the death penalty. What would the specifics be for aggravated child abuse, possibly the use of chloroform?
JOSTAD: Exactly. That could be it, Nancy. And we don`t know if perhaps they have other evidence that we haven`t heard about yet that could suggest some other way that Caylee was killed. And that could be what we`re looking for.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. With me child advocate, family lawyer Sue Moss out of New York, Alex Sanchez, a renowned defense attorney also out of New York, and defense attorney and author of "Prosecutorial Misconduct" Joseph Lawless out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction. Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: She`ll get no protection from the injection. You know, now that everything has come together, now that the evidence is starting to pile up -- and that soil evidence is going to be the one that slams the door shut -- this is going to be a death penalty case, and I think they`re going to go for the death penalty.
GRACE: Alex Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Everybody`s assuming they`re acting in good faith, that they have some justifiable reason.
GRACE: Oh!
SANCHEZ: I`m wondering if they`re just plain old pandering to the national media frenzy because what facts have changed since the initial time when they decided not to file the death penalty?
GRACE: OK, Sanchez. Thanks for analyzing the evidence so well. Lawless?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The other side of the coin is, Nancy, if you put death on the table, all of a sudden, the plea to second or third degree looks strong. They may not have strong evidence. There may be a weakness there, and this is a way to, one, get Sanchez off the case, get another lawyer in there who looks at it differently, and two, make a plea to something less than death look more reasonable to Casey Anthony.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: You have no idea what we`re doing. You don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. (INAUDIBLE) I`m talking. I am talking! I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about that. All you care about is the sensation.
CINDY ANTHONY: Do you guys see the tough George, the tough Cindy, the tough Lee in front of all you guys? We`re not like that all the time, OK? We`re falling apart.
GEORGE ANTHONY: My granddaughter`s missing and...
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: You don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way. Leave me alone.
Do not come past here. Please. Do not come past here. Out of the respect for these other people for a change. Honor them.
Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!
Am I upset, sir? You`re darn right I`m upset being here because I think this is just uncalled for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In a stunning about-face, the state of Florida announces, as we go to air, the state will seek the death penalty against tot mom Casey Anthony in the murder of 2-year-old Caylee, her own little girl.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Sue in Illinois. Hi, Sue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Nice to speak with you. I`ve been trying for a long time to get through to you.
GRACE: Likewise. Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I had a little comment.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your twins are beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you so much. I am blessed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are.
GRACE: And every night when we cover this case, I want to jump away from the anchor table and run home as fast as I can when I see the pictures of this little girl...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
GRACE: I just want to check on them. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You know, I can understand their -- the -- Cindy and -- and I forgot his name -- in the beginning...
GRACE: George. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But during the deposition, Cindy just had all this vulgar anger in her. I don`t understand that. Can you explain that to me? Does she need a psychologist or psychiatrist or something?
GRACE: Well, Sue in Illinois, I`m just a trial lawyer. Let`s go to a professional. Joining us tonight, psychiatrist Dr. Janet Taylor joining us out of New York. Dr. Janet, what about it?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, as Cindy herself said, they`re falling apart, and they have been falling apart for a long time. They have a lot of hostility, a lot of rage, but I think underneath it all is incredible sadness and probably some element of depression. As we know, George was depressed earlier. So they are feeling a lot of emotional extreme angst.
GRACE: But Dr. Taylor, when you are depressed, do you lash out with such venom? Or do they feel put upon? Do they feel beleaguered? I mean, Sue in Illinois is right. There was a lot of venom directed at the questioner.
TAYLOR: Well, there`s no question. I mean, they project a lot of anger. And certainly anger can be a symptom of depression.
GRACE: Ah.
TAYLOR: But there`s such extreme emotional anguish, and what you see is just played out. You know, no matter whose side you`re on, it`s hard for anybody to watch what everybody involved in this case is going through.
GRACE: Also joining us out of Orlando, Florida, Rory O`Neill with Westwood One radio. In an extreme about-face, the state announces it will seek the death penalty in Florida. The mode of death is the needle, lethal injection, a cocktail of three potent medicines.
Rory O`Neill, any idea why the about-face now? Did they know all along and wanted to make it look as if they had thought it through, put it through a committee? You know, a lot of district attorney`s offices, you have to go through a committee if you`re going to seek the death penalty. Some rogue trial lawyer that runs a courtroom doesn`t just announce they`re going to seek the death penalty. So was there some process? Why now?
RORY O`NEILL, WESTWOOD ONE RADIO: Whether or not there was some trigger as to why this week, this happened -- and just to clarify, you know, the electric chair is still available in Florida. So it is either/or and it is the condemned that has the choice as to how they wish to die.
But why this week they put the death penalty back on the table is an interesting question, although, of course, those factors that we talked about before have since come to light since her body was found, the duct tape over the face, the sticker over the mouth. I mean, those are the parts of the heinous and cruel nature of the crime that then elevate this horrible crime to something worthy of the death penalty in Florida.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Stephanie in Texas. Hi, Stephanie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this. You know, the judge has obviously filed a grievance with the Florida bar, and that`s been established. So my question is why hasn`t, or why didn`t, immediately after that -- didn`t Jose Baez go and request that the judge recuse himself? Because that`s obviously going to be or could be argued to be prejudicial against his client. Is he saving that for appellate purposes?
GRACE: Let`s go to the lawyers. What about it, Sue Moss?
MOSS: Oh, I don`t think so. I think the fact that a grievance was filed against one of the attorneys is not strong enough to get a judge to be recused. But now, since we`re saying, Out of the way, Jose, because he can`t try this case anyway, it`s all for naught.
GRACE: What about it, Alex Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: No, I think Jose Baez should make an application for the judge to recuse himself at this point because now every time Mr. Baez goes before that court, he`s going to feel intimidated that, you know, next thing you know he`s going to be brought up on further charges by this court. And so you know, a lawyer really can`t operate under those conditions.
GRACE: Straight out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who is set to be under oath in this case. Leonard Padilla, why the about-face now, the state announcing it will seek the death penalty.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: You`re not going to agree with me, but I`m telling you there`s something there...
GRACE: Just please don`t blame it on Cindy Anthony!
PADILLA: No. No.
GRACE: Can you come up with anything...
PADILLA: No!
GRACE: ... other than that?
PADILLA: I wasn`t even going to mention her name until you brought it up!
GRACE: All right. Go ahead. Go ahead.
PADILLA: Let`s figure it out this way. What if there`s a situation that the state would like to have a plea? It was mentioned by one of the attorneys there. Let`s get her to plea out to this thing before something that is bugging everybody gets found out. The smart thing for the state to do is put the death penalty back on the table and hope that she pleads out.
GRACE: Out to Joe Lawless, defense attorney and author of "Prosecutorial Misconduct." Let`s just get down to the nitty-gritty, Lawless. We`ve known the facts from the get-go. The facts have not changed. One thing changed. They found the body. That happened a long time ago. And afterwards, the state still insisted the death penalty not on the table. Tonight, as we go to air, they do an about-face and say they are seeking the death penalty. Why, Lawless?
LAWLESS: Nancy, I said it earlier. I think there`s a weakness in there that hasn`t been made public. They`re going to show all the evidence they have. They`re going to show everything they can to inflame a potential jury. They`re not going to come out and say, Hey, we`ve got a screw-up in our forensics. But what they are going to do is put the defendant in a position where a choice of a lesser degree looks palatable. And I`m surprised if was ever off the table to begin with, just on the facts. I mean, you`re right, we`ve known all the facts from day one.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. As we go to break, very quickly, tonight`s "Case Alert." In the last hours, a California jury finds music genius multi-millionaire Phil Spector guilty of murder two in the shooting death of actress Lana Clarkson. Clarkson killed by a gunshot wound to the mouth in Spector`s California mansion. His first trial, 2007, ends in deadlock, both juries hearing Spector`s long history of gun violence toward many, many women. Spector facing just 18 years behind bars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: When I arrived, go through the garage door like I typically do.
I just went, Oh (DELETED) Like, it just -- I couldn`t even describe - - I`m just worried that the police are not following up Caylee as a missing person and they`re trying to build a case against my sister, like, for a homicide.
Who took her? She was kidnapped.
I believe everything that my sister tells me.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Brad, I`m getting ready to end this. I`m getting ready to walk out.
Is this 15 minutes of fame so important to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I don`t have to explain anything, but I will.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, sir, you have to explain a lot to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As it turns out, George Anthony goes back tore round two. That`s right, he`s scheduled to be back on the hot seat under oath.
Right now, joining me, the man who searched the spot where Caylee was found multiple times before police found her, Keith Williams. Sir, thank you for being with us. Everyone, Mr. Williams will be taking your calls shortly. But quickly, Mr. Williams, what led to you that area?
KEITH WILLIAMS, PREVIOUSLY SEARCHED AREA WHERE CAYLEE`S REMAINS FOUND: Well, you know, first -- I`m actually -- I grew up in that neighborhood. And the first reason I did is I saw -- I just happened to see it on TV. I saw her say Granny (ph) Drive. And that kind of led me to want to go look over there, just being from that neighborhood. So I just decided to go over...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car. We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. I need to find out here. I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where`s at. Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots, it stunk so bad?
My husband is a deputy sheriff years ago and the first thing he thought was human decomposition. I`m a nurse. I thought human decomposition. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.
I love her and I support her and that I understand, and every day that goes by I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child. My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she is not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child. I as a mom, I know in my gut there`s a feeling as a parent that you know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, a presence. I know that she`s alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You slander this woman yourself in that publication. Isn`t that true, yes or no?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s all I have.
CINDY ANTHONY: No. You slandered me on TV.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: The state announces tonight in a stunning about- face it will seek the death penalty against tot mom Casey Anthony.
With us now taking your calls is a man who searched the area, his own private search, at least three times, where little Caylee`s body was ultimately found. Let`s go out to Keith Williams. The defense is currently seeking his cell phone records and home phone records.
Mr. Williams, I know you grew up in the area, but what led you to that general spot?
KEITH WILLIAMS, PREVIOUSLY SEARCHED AREA WHERE CAYLEE`S SKULL, SKELETON FOUND: That general spot actually, like I said, growing up in the neighborhood, you know, as kids sometimes we used to go back in that neighborhood, I mean, back in the woods there and, you know, just run back in there and mess around just being kids.
So when I first heard about it -- or actually when I first saw the Grandy Drive, you know, the street I grew up on, I actually just, you know, felt like that would be the best area to check. So that`s when I originally went back there. And I believe this was about August 5th, I guess, around late July, beginning of August.
GRACE: Wow. You know, I only wish it had dawned on police. Did you go before or after the floods?
K. WILLIAMS: No, I mean, it was damp at the time I first went out there. It was damp. But it wasn`t flooded at that time. It was just pretty wet.
GRACE: And you went back in nearly the exact location where her remains were found. Is it true that you were actually told to get out and don`t come back?
K. WILLIAMS: Yes. I ended up -- after checking out there a couple of times there was a day that I went out there -- you know, I guess I kind of took matters in my own hands. I was, you know, trying to be Mr. Investigator.
But I actually went out there and looked and yes, I ended up having -- actually, I had a person from the school come out first, and I thought they just wanted me to move my car, so I went and parked on the school, and next thing I know police were out there trespassing me.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this. I guess you`re prepared to be a scapegoat at the trial. You`re the perfect candidate for the defense to point the finger at for murder.
K. WILLIAMS: I don`t really want to hear that. I mean.
GRACE: Well, I`m telling you right now.
K. WILLIAMS: I mean, my girlfriend didn`t want me to be involved. You know, I was just doing something -- you know, it just felt right. You know at the same time I end up meeting a lady who said her mom was a psychic and led me back out there.
And you know, I just did what I thought was right. And that`s why I`m here talking to you right now.
GRACE: You know, John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies," a lot of people don`t believe in hunches. I do.
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Oh, absolutely. A lot of crimes have been solved because of hunches. This guy was doing something he felt.
And by the way, Baez is not only going to have to go after this guy, he`s going to have to go after Kronk. He`s going to go after the officer that was fired. He`s going to have so many things out there that I think that`s part of why the state`s -- and write this down because I never agree with Leonard.
But I agree with Leonard. The state`s pushing it because they want him to -- they want her to actually plea so that something else doesn`t come out to actually throw a wrench into the gears here.
GRACE: Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County New Jersey medical examiner. Dr. Hua, if Keith had been successful way back in August, what condition would the body have been in?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: The body -- I mean, the body should also be in a very early stage of decomposition. Just remember, I mean, June, July is very hot months.
GRACE: Yes.
HUA: . in Florida area. And this kind of hot temperature area. And two months is a very prolonged period of time. The body would be very decomposed.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Stephanie in Texas. Hi, Stephanie. Hold on, I think I lost Stephanie. Let`s go to Charlene in Florida. Hi, Charlene.
CHARLENE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHARLENE: Firstly, I want to say you have gorgeous twins.
GRACE: I`m blessed.
CHARLENE: Yes. And we want to ask the question, if we remember correctly, originally Cindy said that she didn`t know nothing about Zenaida, she didn`t have any way to contact her, et cetera, but under oath just recently she said she had phone numbers and addresses.
Me, myself, as a grandmother, I would have been out looking for that chick.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, what about it, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Cindy Anthony did say she`d heard the name Zanny. She`d not heard the name Zenaida Gonzalez for a while back, although she says she never talked to her, never spoke to her on the phone, never met her, never dropped Caylee off at her house.
GRACE: Out to Carrie in California. Hi, Carrie.
CARRIE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in.
CARRIE: My question is from day one it`s been Zanny that kidnapped the baby. So how can they go from that to trying to pin it on someone else?
GRACE: Excellent question. When your back`s against the wall, you do all kinds of things, Carrie in California. But back out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Who are the people in line to be scapegoats?
We understand the defense has just issued this motion for cell phone records, home phone records of nearly a dozen people. Who?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: That`s right. Her ex-lovers, her parents, her brother. Deputy Richard Kane, who was just fired last week. The meter reader Roy Kronk who found the remains. Keith Williams.
And from what we understand, you know, he might not know what he`s looking for at this point. He may just want all these records to see if there`s anything that he can use. Who knows?
GRACE: Let`s take a look at the list. This was just filed. The defense wanting cell phone and home records for the meter reader Roy Kronk, Jesse Grund, former lover, Tony Lazzarro, former lover, Richard Kane, Cindy Anthony, George Anthony, lee Anthony, Ricardo Morales, Amy Huizenga, former best friend, Dominic Casey, private eye, James Hoover, private eye.
And Keith Williams, who is with us tonight. He had a hunch and conducted at least three private searches of that area where little Caylee was ultimately found.
Unleash the lawyers. Sue Moss, Alex Sanchez, Joseph Lawless. Where are they headed, Moss?
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: When you`ve got nothing, you`ve got nothing to lose. They`re hoping beyond hope that somehow in all these records maybe there`s some reference to something that sounds like a Zanny or a Zenaida or something. But they`ll find nothing.
GRACE: To Alex Sanchez, there is a very good chance if tot mom`s statements to police are suppressed for any reason the jury may never even hear about Zanny the nanny originally being named.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, that`s what the defense is hoping in this case. They`re making applications to suppress statements because they don`t want those statements to come in to be used against her at trial. And if they succeed they`ve accomplished quite a lot.
GRACE: But Joe Lawless, I doubt they`re going to be suppressed, at least those statements, because those statements she made she was not in custody. Remember, she was leading police on that wild goose chase all around where she said she worked?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": Yes. That`s one of the big problems that she has. There are so many statements out there, some of them are going to get in. And I think what they`re looking for with these records is just to see what`s out there.
I mean this isn`t just about -- I wish I was as sure of the evidence as Sue was. There may be evidence in there the defense can use to establish reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Exactly.
LAWLESS: And it`s a legitimate source of inquiry.
GRACE: To Laura Lee in Oklahoma. Hi, Laura Lee, what`s your question, dear?
LAURA LEE, CALLER FROM OKLAHOMA: Hi, Nancy. I have a question about the video.
GRACE: OK.
LAURA LEE: I`ve watched the video of her the day of the arrest. I could not believe how sophisticated she tried to come off with the police officers and tried to outsmart them.
What I was wondering was when and if are we going to see the video of the day that she heard the body had been found?
GRACE: What about it, Mark Williams? Will we ever see that video?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: It`s tough to say. I know we`d all like to see that video. We`ve heard what Lieutenant Tammy Unser had to say.
Right now there`s a motion in front of Judge Stan Strickland to suppress that video altogether. The hearing date for that motion has not been made. It`s going to be interesting to see what the judge has to say in that case.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. As we go to break tonight, a very special happy birthday to friend of the show Laura Hooker Beverage (ph). Here she is at the twins` christening. She`s there with me and little John David.
Laura, happy birthday, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. TONY SHENEMAN, PIO, TRACY POLICE DEPT. ON THE CASE: Nothing we have done and nothing we can say will ever return Sandra to her family and to the community. But last night we arrested Melissa Huckaby, a 28-year- old Sunday school teacher who lives at the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park. And she has been booked into San Joaquin County jail on suspicion of kidnapping and murder of Sandra Cantu.
There`s still a lot of work left to be done over the next several weeks to ensure that Miss Huckaby pays for what she`s done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not a mother, but Sandra was like a daughter to me. I can`t imagine a mother doing this to a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is her mom feeling right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s doing all right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: 8-year-old Sandra Cantu murdered. Her body found folded up in a big suitcase in a nearby irrigation pond. No, her killer is not some thug off the street. It is not a child sex predator. It is a 28-year-old Sunday schoolteacher at her church. A female Sunday schoolteacher. The suspected killer`s daughter played with Sandra Cantu. They were playmates.
Straight out to Sebastian Kunz with KNEW Radio. Sebastian, bring us up to date.
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, the most updated information is really difficult for me to report. We understand the deputy D.A. in the case today told the Associated Press that, in fact, the charges could end up including rape with a foreign object along with lewd and lascivious conduct with a child and murder contributing -- or I`m sorry, murder in the course of a kidnapping.
GRACE: You`re seeing video of the suspect being taken into custody. That is 28-year-old Melissa Huckaby. There you are seeing her in the back of an undercover vehicle.
Sebastian Kunz is joining us from KNEW Radio. With me right now there near the Cantu home, Sergeant Tony Sheneman with the Tracy Police Department.
Sergeant, thank you for being with us. Stunning development. A female sex assaulter and killer? What made police suspicious of her initially?
SHENEMAN: I`m sorry. It`s very windy. I couldn`t hear your question.
GRACE: What made police suspicious of Huckaby to start with?
SHENEMAN: Information that we had received over the tip line and information that we had developed during the course of the investigation began our focus on her. Specifically I can`t discuss that, though.
GRACE: Out to Blake Taylor with KMJ 580 News Radio. Blake, isn`t it true that Huckaby gave several inconsistent interviews to news media?
BLAKE TAYLOR, NEWS DIRECTOR, KMJ 580 NEWS RADIO, COVERING STORY: That`s correct, Nancy. And thanks for having me back. Yes. Miss Huckaby on Friday, as a matter of fact, was called into the police department for a further interview with detectives on this case.
They were -- they had their eye on her from the early stages of this investigation. That`s for sure. One thing that did develop, though, in that ongoing investigation, and Tony Sheneman can allude to this later, is that she changed her demeanor drastically from one end of the spectrum to the other during that interview and then those inconsistent statements concerning the suitcase is what led to the eventual arrest.
GRACE: Back out to Sebastian Kunz. Bring us up to date on that suitcase. Apparently the child found folded up inside a suitcase in this irrigation pond. Farm workers saw the suitcase and alerted police.
Now didn`t she try to report or say she reported the suitcase stolen? You know, you and I talked at the beginning and we said that night this suitcase may lead police to the killer.
KUNZ: Oh, absolutely. And it`s in fact true that she claims to have reported the luggage missing on the day Sandra went missing, but the Tracy Police Department has said more than once that they had no -- they had no reports of luggage that was stolen.
And the suspect in the case, Huckaby, says something to the effect of, well, it required going down to the police department and filling out paperwork and she didn`t feel like she had the need to do that.
But again, the shock at this not only being a female but the mother of Sandra`s playmate and a Sunday schoolteacher at the church. It`s boggled a lot of minds over the past three days.
GRACE: Extremely rare to have a female sex predator and killer on a tiny child. We are taking your calls live. Out to Anne in Rhode Island. Hi, Anne.
ANNE, RHODE ISLAND CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. Just.
ANNE: It`s horrible.
GRACE: It`s very disturbing.
ANNE: It is.
GRACE: Here`s Sandra Cantu in the hours before her death literally skipping with joy.
ANNE: I know.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
ANNE: First of all, I want to comment. Your twins are breathtaking.
GRACE: Thank you. And can you believe.
ANNE: Breathtaking and you are doing such a good job of victims for these kids. Because I have a 12-year-old and I go in his room every night like you do and I check on him. And I just think of you. I can`t believe they`ve gotten as big as they`ve gotten.
Anyway, my question is did anybody in Miss Huckaby`s neighborhood have any inclination that she had problems, that there was something going on?
GRACE: Excellent question. Back to Blake Taylor with KMJ 580. Anne in Rhode Island, that`s a good question. What about it, Blake?
TAYLOR: Yes, it certainly is. Now she`s had some run-ins with the law in recent -- in the last recent year or two. She`s been picked up on a theft charge. In fact, she was set to undergo some psychological testing, we understand, in the near future as part of her probation for that.
But nothing, nothing even remotely has connected her to a violent crime.
GRACE: And tonight, of course, they claim she`s on a suicide watch.
You know, to Dr. Janet Taylor, why is it the perps always claim they`re going to kill themselves and they just end up killing somebody else?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, in this case the fact that she`s on suicide watch is consistent with the fact that she is allegedly a sex offender because when women -- and women are sexual predators and do offend and molest children.
But when they do, typically their profile is they are suicidal. Not necessarily psychotic but have a history of some psychiatric illness. But you know.
GRACE: OK, you know what, Janet Taylor? Do not tune up tonight about a psychiatric illness because, Dr. Taylor, I know that`s your expertise, not mine. But you have to know that what you`re doing -- you have to not understand that it`s wrong at the time you do it and the fact that she allegedly hid the child in a suitcase and threw in the water, and had the wherewithal to lie to police about the suitcase, and trump up some theory that she had reported it stolen is complete BS.
TAYLOR: Nancy.
GRACE: She knew what she was doing.
TAYLOR: I am not giving her an alibi. I`m just saying we have to look at what her psychological frame of mind is. Not an excuse, but understanding that clearly her frame of mind -- not that she can`t understand right from wrong, but that something probably happened to her.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA HUCKABY, SUNDAY SCHOOLTEACHER: The only reason that the police are over here and over at the church so much is because Sandra was my daughter`s best friend and came over here almost every day to play with my daughter.
And another is the suitcase. That was my suitcase. It was stolen out from in front of my house. And I called when I noticed it was stolen. I called the police department and they told me in order to make a report, you know, it was over $200. And I had to go online and make a report. And I did not have access to the Internet. So I was unable to make a report at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s the Sunday schoolteacher, Melissa Huckaby, talking with local CBS 5 reporter KPIX.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Played with everybody here. You know? She went to help, see if they could make cookies over here and bake something over there, and help clean somebody`s cupboard. We have to be here for all of the kids, all the children, your children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Sunday schoolteacher, a female Sunday schoolteacher charged in the molestation and death of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu. Take a listen to what her own relative had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no doubt in my mind that she knows right from wrong. At least I thought she did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Blake Taylor with 580 News Radio. What now? Oh, everyone, that was just from ABC`s "Good Morning American," Reverend Wayne Lawless defending his daughter.
Blake Taylor, they were already alluding to the death penalty, number one. And number two, if she had kept her trap shut instead of making up all these stories, it`s very likely she would have never been a suspect.
TAYLOR: Well, that`s the allegation from the detectives investigating this case from the get-go. Again, allegedly tripping herself up over the stories about the suitcase, that Eddie Bauer suitcase that Sandra turned up in a few days after she went missing.
Now you`re right about the death penalty, because here in California - - now, the formal charges haven`t been filed as of yet. But if a murder charge against Huckaby sticks and those special circumstances of rape with a foreign object.
GRACE: Right.
TAYLOR: . the lewd and lascivious acts, all of that, not to mention the murder and kidnapping, she would be up for a death penalty sentence or life without parole.
GRACE: Everyone, a female Sunday schoolteacher charged in the death of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.
Thank you, Sergeant Sheneman, Blake Taylor and Sebastian Kunz.
Let`s stop and remember Army Chief Warrant Officer 2 Christian Humphreys, Fallon, Nevada, killed Iraq. Loved flying. Loved playing board games, Backgammon, paint ball, jokes. Leaves behind parents Daniel and Sylvia, sister Alexandra, brother Tobias, and loving widow Christina.
Christian Humphreys, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially you. And tonight, a special happy anniversary to our show`s creator and executive producer, Dean Sicoli, and his very patient wife, Karin.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
