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Campbell Brown
President Obama Talks Economy; Pulling Immigrant Families Apart
Aired April 14, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, folks, the president believes the American economy is turning around. The question is, do you?
He gave an update today on the state of the economy. Of course, was he on the money, though, or was it all about politics?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no doubt that times are still tough. By no means are we out of the woods just yet.
But from where we stand, for the very first time, we're beginning to see glimmers of hope. And beyond that, way off in the distance, we can see a vision of an America's future that is far different than our troubled economic past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Let's go right to our chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi.
So, the question, Ali, is are these glimmers of hope real?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Roland, if we were in a good economy, and we were seeing some of these little back-and- forth indicators, I would have laughed at anyone. I would tell them that we're headed for economic hell.
But the bottom line is, for so many months, we have seen nothing but bad economic indicators. So, the fact that there are some mixed economic indicators out there has given people some reason to hope. So, yes, I think the fact that it's not all down means that it might be positive.
MARTIN: Take a listen to what the president talked about as to why we're still in this mess. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If everybody -- if every family in America, if every business in America cuts back all at once, then no one is spending any money, which means there are no customers, which means there are more layoffs, which means that the economy gets even worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN: Now, Ali, is that even reflected the markets?
VELSHI: Yes, absolutely.
The stock markets of this country are based on the fact that people consume. They buy things from companies. Those companies make money and those stocks go up. Let's take a look at what the markets have done. This is actually an interesting mixed indicator.
Take a look at January 1. We ended up going down through January, through the inauguration, through the initial part of the presidency, into March. About March 9 is when we hit the lowest period that we have hit, down around almost 6500 on the Dow.
And take a look at this. It's not been a straight line up, but we are substantially higher than where we were then. Now, it is a fact that the market responds before other indicators in the economy to a recovery.
So, we will expect the market to do better six to eight months before some of the other indicators in the economy like jobs and housing. So, some people are saying, look, the market could go down again, but we have definitely seen room for hope here. Five straight weeks of gains in the market, Roland, we haven't seen that in decades.
MARTIN: Now, of course, the president was not painting a rosy picture, Ali, in his speech today. Let's listen to a little bit more of that speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: 2009 will continue to be a difficult year for America's economy, and, obviously, most difficult for those who've lost their jobs.
The severity of this recession will cause more job loss, more foreclosures, and more pain before it ends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Ali, we're seeing all these different numbers. Now, walk us through this whole issue with unemployment and jobs. What's going on with these numbers?
VELSHI: Yes, it's a big deal.
Look, there are three things that make you feel rich in life, Roland. That is getting a better salary, earning more money in the stock market because that's your retirement, or your home value going up.
MARTIN: Right.
VELSHI: Let's take a look at home value. This is the median price for an existing home. The median is half of all homes are sold for less, half of all homes are sold for more. In December of 2007 when this recession started, the median price of a home in America, $208,400.
That's where it was. Take a look at where we are now, in February. That's the month for which we have the most recent numbers, $165,000 for the same home. That's a drop of 21 percent. We're starting to see home sales tick up, Roland. We're actually seeing it, but that's because interest rates are down below 5 percent.
And people are going in and buying houses that have actually depreciated in value or might actually be in foreclosure. But the biggest thing, Roland, you and I have talked about this for a long time. The biggest thing is jobs. You don't have to buy and sell a home every day, but you do have to get an income.
Take a look at the job situation. The unemployment level is 8.5 percent. You know what it was when we first started this recession? It was 4.9 percent. And even the most robust expectations suggest that it will take until about 2012 or 2013 to get back to that.
Since this recession gee began in 2007, we have lost more than five million jobs in this economy -- Roland.
MARTIN: Ali, all the polls show that people cannot stand the bank bailout. But the president again made the case as to why we need them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: But the truth is that a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or 10 dollars of loans to families and businesses. So that's a multiplier effect that can ultimately lead to a faster pace of economic growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: I guess the multibillion-dollar question is, is it working?
VELSHI: We have learned, if we have learned nothing in the last six months, Roland, it's our relationship to credit, not only as individuals, but our companies and our government.
The bottom line is there is a plan to try and get those toxic assets off the balance sheets of banks, get that old garbage out and let these banks start lending again. We do not know whether that will work. There's a lot of enthusiasm about it. There are a lot of people who say it won't work.
Until the banks are able to lend again, and you and I can borrow comfortably at a good rate, even without perfect credit, not with terrible credit, but even without perfect credit, we don't know if this gets back on track. So, that's the thing that they have got to deal with right now.
MARTIN: All right, Ali, appreciate you bringing it down for us. Thanks a bunch.
VELSHI: All right.
MARTIN: Now, folks, with me right now from Washington is former Republican Congressman Chris Chocola. He's now the president of the Club For Growth. And they back candidates who support limited government and lower taxes.
And, Chris, I want you to listen to what the president said defending his handling of the financial crisis in his speech today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Whether we like it or not, history has shown repeatedly that when nations do not take early and aggressive action to get credit flowing again, they have crises that last years and years instead of months and months: years of low growth, years of low job creation, years of low investment, all of which cost these nations far more than a course of bold, up-front action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Well, Chris, the president is crying to convince us that his bold up-front action is working. Has he convinced you?
CHRIS CHOCOLA, PRESIDENT, CLUB FOR GROWTH: Well, he hasn't convinced me, Roland.
And I Always ask myself three questions. Does it sound good, does it feel good or does it do good? And the president's speeches generally Usually sound good and feel good, but the only answer that matters is, does it do good?
And to convince me, I guess somebody has got to tell when in the history of the world Keynesian-style stimulus spending has worked. And the closest thing to an answer that I have been able to get is, well, it hasn't worked because we haven't spent enough.
And that's a frightening answer. But I do know what has worked is pro-growth tax policy. You give people the incentives to work, save and invest, and we do overcome recessions. And so I think that we have to learn the lessons history.
And I don't think that big government, more government spending -- we have had a spending problem in the past. I don't think we're going to fix it with more spending in the future. And believing in people to do the right thing when we give them the right incentives, and pro-growth tax policy is the best incentive we can give.
MARTIN: But, Chris, aren't you singing a one-note tune, if you will, in that all throughout the election, we heard Senator John McCain talk about tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and Obama laid out his plan?
It sounds like the American people made the decision and it wasn't the tax cut model. How is that the only answer?
CHOCOLA: Well, Roland, I think that we're seeing the American people react right now with these tea parties that are going on around the country.
I live in northern Indiana. Been impacted very severely by the current economic downturn. But there are these spontaneous tea parties going on. We have already had a couple. We're going to have a couple tomorrow.
And I think people really understand that what we're doing is spending so much money that it's going to have a negative impact for generations to come. We're trying to avoid some pain now by transferring the pain to our children and our grandchildren.
And so by putting in good policy now, give people the incentives to correct the market, let the free market work, I think we avoid more pain later. And so we shouldn't kick the can down the road. The president said he wouldn't kick the can down the road. But that's exactly what we're doing, and it's a bigger can the longer we wait to put in the good policies today.
MARTIN: Well, Chris, I understand the tea party. There's a lot of folks have been put out of work than probably who participate in these tea parties. So, we will see exactly how that goes down.
Thank you so very much. We appreciate it.
Now, folks, with just over 24 hours left to file your 2008 returns, CNN has you covered. Just go to CNNMoney.com/taxes, where you will find special tips for last-minute filers. That's CNNMoney.com.
Big question: Should parents in this country illegally be separated from their American-born children? Parents here illegally separated. The phones are already filing up with callers like this man in California.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About the immigration issues, that they should stay. You shouldn't break up these families. They're already here now. Let's keep them together. Families are important.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Agree or disagree? Well, start calling right now, 1- 877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Or you can e-mail me at Roland@CNN.com I'm also on Twitter and Facebook tonight.
Also, check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: That's a good-looking dog, though. Let's face it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Get to know Bo. It's inauguration day for the new first pooch. We will show you more in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing." (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, sexting. Your kids may be sending nude photos of themselves to friends right now. Yes, nude photos. There should be a law against that, right? Well, would you believe one state is thinking about changing laws to actually make it legal? So, what do you think? Here's one of our callers, Ma, from Virginia.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MA, VIRGINIA: I'm calling on this sexting thing.
I think that they're really -- the teens are just really borderline, just short of crossing the line. And for the most part, I think just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: The sexting debate all ahead.
Plus, a new study shows that there are now four million American- born children whose parents are illegal immigrants. Is it right to deport the parents and break these families up?
Call me now 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. And I want to hear what you think about sexting and the immigration study. You can also e-mail me, Roland@CNN.com, or post a note on my Twitter and Facebook pages. I'm on right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, we have got new developments tonight in the daring rescue of American Captain Richard Phillips from a gang of Somali pirates.
Captain Phillips and his crew members from the Maersk Alabama will soon be reunited. And they're all due back in the U.S. tomorrow.
Now, the captain was held in a lifeboat for five days and finally freed when Navy SEAL snipers killed three pirates on Sunday. But don't think that means all of the pirates are out of business. Two more ships were seized off the coast of Somalia today.
And, for more on that, here's Erica Hill.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, actually, far from out of business, Roland.
In fact, just a little over 48 hours since Captain Richard Phillips was freed, a total of four ships have been hijacked in the region, some 60 people taken hostage by Somali pirates, now, this as we're learning more about Sunday night's dramatic rescue.
There were some new photos released today by the U.S. Navy which show what appear to be bullet holes in the window of the lifeboat. You can see them there. navy sharpshooters of course were positioned on the deck of the USS Bainbridge. They shot and killed three of the four pirates who were holding Captain Phillips hostage.
Now, Captain Phillips is on the Bainbridge right now. He is en route to Mombasa, Kenya. That's where he's going to be reunited with the rest of his crew from the Maersk Alabama. He's expected to arrive tomorrow.
And then all 20 crew members will board a chartered plane en route to Andrews Air Force Base.
And that's where their families, Roland, will be awaiting. It will be quite the reunion there.
MARTIN: Yes, big homecoming, big homecoming.
But what's going on with the fourth pirate? What are authorities doing with the one they're actually holding?
HILL: Still a lot of questions surrounding that, actually, because federal prosecutors are actually still trying to determine whether he's going to be prosecuted here in the United States.
Now, if so, possible charges could include hostage-taking or even piracy. Keep in mind, though, there are other issues beyond just jurisdiction, because the pirates are said to be between 17 and 19 years old, that is, the four pirates who attacked the Alabama and ultimately held Captain Phillips hostage.
So, if the surviving pirate is a minor, federal law would require that he be tried as a juvenile. So, that's something to take into account.
Another option, Roland, could also be to hand him over for trial in Kenya, so still a lot of balls up in the air as they try to figure out how to proceed.
MARTIN: All right, Erica, thanks a bunch. We appreciate it.
Folks, so, how serious is the U.S. commitment to hunt down the pirates? We're going to debate that coming up.
Also, Senator John McCain just went on "The Tonight Show" and seemed to go out of his way not to mention his old running mate. Are they on the outs?
And we want to know tonight what you think about sexting, teens sending explicit pictures of themselves on their cell phones. Should it be illegal? Call us and let us know what you think, 1-877-NO-BULL- 0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: President Obama was certainly talking tough on the pirate threat yesterday. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: And I want to be very clear that we are resolved to halt the rise of piracy in that region. And to achieve that goal, we're going to have to continue to work with our partners to prevent future attacks. We have to continue to be prepared to confront them when they arise. And we have to ensure that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: That was yesterday.
But, today, Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he doesn't see any immediate need to bulk up the military response.
So, is the battle against pirates nothing more than a war of words?
Here now, security and counterterrorism expert Kim Petersen and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger.
Now, Gloria, exactly what's going on here? You have the president saying one thing and Gates saying another thing. Let's cut through the bull. What are they actually saying?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the reality is, Roland, that you're not going to keep the status quo here, because the status quo is completely unacceptable.
But as the secretary said, we may not bulk up immediately, but he also said that there's going to be a lot of meetings in the Situation Room, presumably with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in which they're going to have to figure out how to handle this problem.
That may mean more Navy ships. It may mean different routes for Navy ships. We're not sure. But, you know, they have got about a million square miles of water there that they have to police. And it's just not an easy thing to do. And, as the president said, it can't be unilateral. We have to do it with other countries.
MARTIN: Kim, how do you see this? Do you see it as conflicting messages, or, frankly, America saying, look, we will not do this all alone?
KIM PETERSEN, PRESIDENT, SEASECURE: Well, I think it's a little bit of both.
We certainly need to have a coalition approach here. But quite frankly, we have the resources available to us in the region already in order to escalate a new policy there where we actually take the fight to the pirates, we have the Special Operations Command operating out of Djibouti, which is on the northern border of Somalia.
We have fairly adequate naval forces already off the coast of Somalia. What we really need to do now is address what the real threat is here. And it's not just to coalition and American sailors and citizens. It's not just to our commerce and our supply chain. It's also the likelihood, or at least the possibility, that organizations like Al-Shabaab, which is al Qaeda in Somalia, are going to subsume the piracy trade, because we have done such a good job of depriving them of their revenues through electronic banking controls and what have you, they're looking for revenues. And this is a great business model for them.
MARTIN: Gloria, go ahead.
BORGER: You know, Roland, Roland, I think this is, however, an area which lots of folks in the administration are a little bit skeptical about becoming deeply involved in, because everybody remembers Black Hawk Down during the Clinton years, when we lost two helicopters, 18 Americans were killed.
MARTIN: Right.
BORGER: And everybody knows the area. And they're just very reluctant to start going down that path again, particularly given the fact that we're already fighting two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
MARTIN: Kim, you're shaking your head, but shouldn't we also be thinking about the fact that Somalia, very close to Nigeria, looking at Kenya, the Horn of Africa? And so we do have a natural interest there, when you look at all the oil that get from Nigeria as well?
PETERSEN: Absolutely. It's a crucial area for U.S. interests.
But I think this is very different from Mogadishu. It's very different from Black Hawk Down. We're talking about other area where -- Eyl and the other areas where the pirates are working out of, these are fairly isolated. There are very few roads going in and out of these regions. It's very easy for us to contain them.
And, quite frankly, we could change the policy there quite readily by, first of all, targeting the leadership. We can go after their communications. We can disrupt their operations, and we can break up their communications, all with the resources that we have at hand. This is something that the United States could do in a relatively short period of time.
MARTIN: All right, Gloria Borger from D.C., Kim Petersen, great skyline from native Houston, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
PETERSEN: Thank you, Roland.
MARTIN: Folks, there's lots of other news that you need to know about tonight.
Right now, Joe Johns is here with the briefing -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Roland, North Korea is threatening to walk away from disarmaments talks. Pyongyang, which tested a long-range rocket this month, says it now plans to strengthen its nuclear capabilities and will pull out of the multination talks aimed at persuading it to scrap its nukes. The White House today called that a serious step in the wrong direction.
Alleged Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk will not be deported to Germany just yet. The 89-year-old retired autoworker was removed from his home today by immigration operations. But an appeals court granted a stay of his deportation while it considers whether he's too ill to travel. Demjanjuk is accused of involvement in 29,000 deaths during World War II.
In California, a woman accused of the rape and killing of an 8- year-old girl was in court today. Former Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby fought tears, but did not enter a plea or speak today. She's charged with killing Sandra Cantu, a friend of her own daughter.
Rod Blagojevich says -- quote -- he's "innocent of every allegation." The former Illinois governor pleaded not guilty today to 16 federal corruption charges, including trying to sell President Obama's old Senate seat.
And, Roland, Ashton Kutcher has issued a challenge to all of us here at CNN. The "Dude, Where's My Car?" tar is a known Twitter aficionado. And he says he's going to beat our network to a goal of one million followers. But, so far, we can't get him on TV to talk about it. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHTON KUTCHER, ACTOR: See, I love how CNN wants me to come on their program and promote their thing, which only gets them more views!
(LAUGHTER)
KUTCHER: Anyway, I just thought it was funny that CNN actually was taking me seriously. And I like that. I like that. I like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Sounds like trash-talking to me.
Roland, you have got an army of followers on Twitter. What do you think? Is this guy bluffing?
MARTIN: I'm texting right now: Who is Ashton Kutcher?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: I don't know. I have never heard of the guy.
MARTIN: Nice try, Ashton, but it's not going to work. Sorry.
All right, Joe, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
Folks, we're talking tonight about immigration and whether it's right to break up families when parents are illegal in this country, but their children were born here. We have been hearing from you all about this all day. Listen to this tweet -- quote -- "Without question, Roland, they should stay. This is America. We don't want to rip families apart."
Folks, you can get in on the conversation by giving us a call right now, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Or e-mail me at Roland@CNN.com. You can also check me on Twitter or Facebook, where I'm slamming Ashton right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Can you imagine being forced to make this choice, your family or your country? Think about it for a second.
There are millions of children in America right now who could one day face that dilemma. Thousands already have. They are American citizens born in the U.S. But at least one of their parents is an illegal immigrant living in constant fear of deportation.
These kids are the innocents caught in the middle of one of our country's most divisive debates.
National political correspondent Jessica Yellin is here with some eye-opening new numbers about them -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Roland, in the immigration fight, it's kids who are getting caught in the crosshairs.
Now, a new study by Pew Center shows that -- look at this -- four million, four million children were born in the United States, but they're the children of illegal immigrants. Now, what this means, Roland, is that although they are legal U.S. citizens, one or more of their parents is at risk of deportation. And get this. These kids are more likely to live in two-parent families than most kids of the U.S.
MARTIN: Now, of course, we're seeing four million of them. This number is -- is a dramatic increase over the last five years.
YELLIN: That's true.
And it's because, even though the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. has stayed the same or stable, they're having more children. And get this. The majority of these kids are in five different states. They're in California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and Texas. And in those states, 10 percent of all school-age kids are legal U.S. citizens. But their parents still are at risk of deportation. And so the question is, Roland, really do parents want to break up these families?
MARTIN: Now, of course, we heard a lot of immigration in the campaign, I mean, on both sides. But it's amazing we haven't heard much since the inauguration.
YELLIN: That's true. The Obama administration has made it clear that they want to start the discussion on immigration this year, and that they are concerned about keeping families intact. They say that will be a top priority of any future immigration plan and so are top Senate Democrats. They're concerned about this issue.
MARTIN: All right. Jessica, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Now we want to have a little conversation. But look, they're here. They're citizens, just like most of you at home. So what do we do about children of illegal immigrants?
Head to head on this issue tonight, Juan Hernandez. He is from The Reform Institute. He says this country needs immigrants.
On the other side, Dan Stein, the head of the Federation of American Immigration Reform. He says illegal immigrants who come here to have kids are exploiting the law.
Now, four million children who are new U.S. citizens, big number. But, Dan, for you that's four million too many. You don't think they should be citizens?
DAN STEIN, PRESIDENT, FAIR: Well, look, how are we going to win the war on poverty, Roland, when these data show that we're importing them by the millions every year? I mean, we're talking about parents who have average income levels of below 12th grade, many of them 9th grade and below.
This is a post-industrial information society. We've got a totally unaffordable immigration problem that's adding particularly to the health care cost.
Roland, we cannot have a health care debate without realizing that maybe a sixth of this entire population, of the insured health care population in this country attributable to this group of people.
Now, I want to talk about family being --
MARTIN: Real quick before I go to Juan.
STEIN: Under immigration law, the parents need to go home and they need to have their kids with them.
MARTIN: OK.
STEIN: Under the law, the kids go home as an unaccompanied minor.
MARTIN: Juan, check this out. Here's a comment from Facebook from Lon Yu (ph). He says, "If the parents are here illegally and they have to return to their countries, then their children should go with them."
How do you respond to that when these children are U.S. citizens?
JUAN HERNANDEZ, THE REFORM INSTITUTE: Look, I understand very well that at this time, when we've lost maybe 12 million jobs, how do we sell that we must legalize 12 million new people, many of those who have children, as you say four million born in this nation? It is a hard sell.
But we in the United States of America think big. When we have difficulties, we don't shrink, we grow our economy. And how do we do that? With young people, with new people, with immigrants, with the new Americans. And these four million children with their parents are the new Americans, some of the best people of this nation.
MARTIN: Hey, Juan and Dan, a lot of folks are commenting on this. So we're going to the phone lines.
Harry is on the phone line. He's Hispanic, is a retired New York City police officer.
Harry, what say you?
HARRY, NEW YORK (via telephone): Hi. Thanks for having me on your show. I believe that families should absolutely not be torn apart. And we're hurting our own people, because either a child or a spouse is American. And the person who's here illegally has not committed either a felony or a misdemeanor by entering the United States illegally. They've committed a mere violation of immigration law which is not a misdemeanor or a felony, therefore, is not a crime.
MARTIN: All right. Harry, thanks so much.
Now, Dan, here you have a former cop saying a mere violation. So he is saying this is not as bad as committing a felony.
STEIN: Well, this demonstrates once again that New York police officers need better training in immigration law because it is a misdemeanor. If you enter without inspection the first time, it's a felony. If you do it again after deportation, it's a serious felony.
This is, look, what other area of American law do we actually reward people who come here, break the law, then they have kids and go, oh, U.S. citizen kids, can't deport me. And then people who played by the rule, they're suckers.
Look, the Obama administration has basically said, get this, we're just not going to enforce the law. They've appointed somebody to head affairs in the White House, Cecilia Munoz, who has a 20-year track record of pausing (ph) all immigration enforcement, and then they turn around and say well, we've got millions of people here who broke the law and they propose absolutely nothing.
They've stopped building the fence. They've stopped interior enforcement. They're rolling back the secure I.D. requirements. They're opposing all the things that were actually getting control of the problem, then they have the audacity to say all right, we're going to go (INAUDIBLE) to happen on my watch.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, Juan --
HERNANDEZ: Let me butt in, Roland.
MARTIN: Juan, hold on a second. I want to ask you this question. I think it's critically important. And that is we talk about having two-parent households, raising children. These are American citizens. And so, do you believe the position of Dan follows this whole notion of family values?
HERNANDEZ: What I say, let's have a heart in all of this. I don't want to attack the other gentleman here, but he's spoken against Cecilia Munoz. He's spoken against Obama. He can throw in I'm sure McCain because McCain was in favor of immigration.
He's criticized the Republicans, the Democrats, the parents of the children, the four million children, the police officers from New York. I mean, he's attacked everybody. And next, I will be the one he'll attack.
STEIN: Come on, Juan, get a life.
HERNANDEZ: I'd say let's not attack. We've got wonderful people here. We've got -- sir, just a minute please. Let me finish.
MARTIN: Juan, go right ahead. Go right ahead.
HERNANDEZ: We have four million children who are citizens of this nation. They are good kids. They're going to grow up to be wonderful citizens.
And as we've mentioned in the study by the Pew, they will be families that will stick together. Let's keep those parents together with those children. They're going to be wonderful. They're going to be a blessing to this nation.
MARTIN: Gentlemen, the conversation will continue. Juan Hernandez, Dan Stein, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
And folks, stay there. Everybody, we're going to talk more about this issue.
But also, take a look at what Darrick, 72, on Twitter has to say about illegal immigrant families. "They should stay, but no one else should come across our borders illegally. We need to get them into the system and tax them."
Well, what do you say? Should they stay or should they go? 1- 877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. E-mail me roland@CNN.com. You can find me on Facebook or Twitter just like Darrick did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Illegal immigrants, that's one issue. But children of illegal immigrants born in this country, that's a whole different issue. They're citizens, and after all, we've been debating what to do about them and their parents. Now, it's "Your Turn, Your Voice" right now. Sticking around for that is Juan Hernandez from The Reform Institute, and Dan Stein from the Federation of American Immigration Reform.
Gentlemen, we've got someone on the phone line. He's going to remain anonymous, calling from New York.
Go ahead what you're calling, anonymous. What say you?
OK. We all lost him there. All right, then, let's go to Florida.
Ted, Ted, what's your comment?
TED, FLORIDA (via telephone): My comment is America is a nation of immigrants. And I don't think that no immigrant should be deported. If they make it to America, this is the promise land. They should become citizens as long as they are productive.
And we should not go back to slavery time where you rip families apart. Whether you're black, white or what, families should not be ripped apart.
MARTIN: Juan, that sounds like a comment you made about when it comes to productive citizens, taking advantage of that.
HERNANDEZ: That's right. These are wonderful children. They were born here in the United States of America. They're a blessing to this nation. They're parents, many of them undocumented, are paying taxes.
They put billions of dollars into the Social Security administration. It's around $6 billion to $8 billion a year that help our elderly in this nation. We are a nation that is growing old. Let's get excited about these wonderful young people that are coming to our nation.
And we do have about 13, 14 million undocumented. We need to legalize them. We need to make sure there are no criminals, of course, in the group.
MARTIN: Got you.
HERNANDEZ: But it's about time that we solved it.
MARTIN: All right. Let's go to Yolanda calling -- OK, all right, then. Well, actually we thought we had Yolanda there, but we lost the call there.
Now, folks, let me ask you this question.
Dan, there really (INAUDIBLE) with this here and that is, this study, 10 percent of students in five states have a parent who's an illegal immigrant. And so, how do we deal with the support for these students in the schools? Because as you said earlier, it's having a dramatic impact onto local tax bases. STEIN: Well, I mean I want to make something clear here which is we at FAIR want these kids to be with their parents, and we want the families to be together. The parents, however, need to be back in their home countries and the kids need to be with their parents. And that's the way you keep the families together.
We're creating this artificial argument, in my opinion, exploiting the children at this point by trying to make an argument that just because some of the kids happen to be born here that that should defeat the entire operation of U.S. immigration law.
We have schools in this country that are overcrowded, overburdened, not doing the job, because you cannot plan for a large- scale influx of people coming in with very low skills, low education. When you haven't planned for it, you don't build the classrooms, you don't build the schools. That's why California which used to have a fantastic school system does not any more.
You know, if the Obama administration were serious about a big amnesty program, they'd say, look, we got the economy in chaos. Americans are losing their jobs by the million. We need a time-out for most immigration. We'll try to sort through some of the people here illegally.
MARTIN: I got you.
STEIN: They're not talking about any kind of long-range immigration policy. Juan Hernandez says let's just have open borders. Let everybody come in. Nobody supports that.
MARTIN: Real quick, real quick, Juan, about 20 seconds. There has to be a starting point. Should we delay it or should we be dealing with the issue now when it comes to Congress?
STEIN: Delay it -- I mean, this is --
MARTIN: No, no, no. Dan, hold on one second. Juan, go ahead.
HERNANDEZ: Of course, we should. I mean, this is ridiculous. It's been 20 years. Ronald Reagan passed the amnesty of '86-'87, and it was called an amnesty. Unfortunately, Ronald Reagan, a Republican, by the way, did not create a new program.
And so here we are 20 years later with many undocumented people, but we are a magnet. We are pulling the people that we truly need in this nation.
MARTIN: All right.
HERNANDEZ: And about those students, we do have about 1.6 million kids in college, paying college tuition here. And they are going to be wonderful, fruitful people in this nation if we give them a chance.
STEIN: You're way out of it.
MARTIN: Juan Hernandez, Dan Stein, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
STEIN: Thanks.
MARTIN: Also, folks at home, the Pew Hispanic study has a lot more fascinating details about the state of illegal immigration in America. If you head right now to CNN.com/Campbell, we put up a link for you to read the entire report. That's CNN.com/Campbell.
Also, "LARRY KING LIVE" is just minutes away. The king, what you got coming up tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Hey, my man. A Sunday school teacher was formally charged today with murdering her daughter's little friend. We've got the latest.
Plus, Sharon Stone is here. And she always brings her "A" game to the show.
And Ashton Kutcher is challenging us. Wait till you hear about all of this. You'll all see it all next on "LARRY KING LIVE."
Now, back to my man.
MARTIN: Well, as Mel Brooks said, it's good to be the king -- Larry King.
Larry, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
Folks, Sasha and Malia have their new puppy, but the president smell a little trouble already. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, the only concern is -- Portuguese water dogs like tomatoes. Michelle's garden is in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: That and other warm and fuzzy moments from the first dog's debut just ahead.
And folks, we want to know tonight what you think about sexting. Teens sending explicit pictures of themselves on their cell phones. Should it be illegal?
Call us and let us know what you think. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Still trying figure out who's Ashton Kutcher.
All right, folks, right now, time for our "Political Daily Briefing." And Jessica Yellin, she is back with us -- Jessica.
YELLIN: You know, this one sure sounded like a diss (ph) to me, Roland. Senator John McCain, he was on "The Tonight Show" last night.
Jay Leno asked him to name the rising stars of the Republican Party and the senator gave shout-outs to governors including Bobby Jindal, Charlie Crist, and his old rival, former Governor Mitt Romney, but the name Sarah Palin never crossed his lips. The senator then went out of his way to point out the omission just in case anyone missed it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There's a lot of good people out there and I've left out somebody's name, and I'm going to hear about it.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Not so hot there. Now maybe he wasn't talking about Sarah Palin.
MARTIN: Yes, right.
YELLIN: But when Meghan McCain was on here and you interviewed her, she wouldn't say who she voted for.
MARTIN: She wouldn't bite.
YELLIN: She wouldn't bite. You pushed her hard too.
OK, switching gears --
MARTIN: Absolutely. Now we talk -- what's happening with the pooch and everybody is talking about the new White House dog.
YELLIN: Well, the president has --
MARTIN: Except Newt Gingrich, of course.
YELLIN: Well, Newt, we'll start talking about it because the world can't get enough.
The president has announced the pup has star quality. The 6- month-old Portuguese water dog was unveiled on the South Lawn of the White House. And you know, that's usually where the White House holds formal arrival ceremonies for foreign heads of state. But today, Bo, the new dog, got more media attention than most visiting dignitaries.
There he is. He was let out by the entire Obama family. At one point, he even took Malia on a run across the lawn. And during -- there you go -- he's clearly in charge already.
During the meet and greet, the Obamas tried to get him to do a trick, but he wasn't exactly interested. And the president sympathized. He said it's an awful lot of pressure to have the world watching. Then the president -- he offered a few facts about his new best friend. He said Bo has been neutered, that everybody in the Obama family will take turns walking him, including the president. And that Bo will be allowed in the Oval Office but not on the president's desk.
Now Sasha Obama, the youngest, was already looking forward to teaching him one thing. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SASHA, FIRST DAUGHTER: He doesn't know how to swim.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has to be taught how to swim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Pretty cute. So, you know, they say they're all going to take turns walking him. But you know what, there is a White House dog walker.
MARTIN: Really?
YELLIN: Yes.
MARTIN: Well, you know what? At Texas A&M, we have someone who watches over our mascot, Reveille, the dog as well. But Reveille can jump at any court that's bad.
YELLIN: I believe you.
MARTIN: Also, Jessica, it's Bo, not Bo. He's got to get it.
YELLIN: Bo.
MARTIN: All right. Now the president also met with some other stars besides Bo?
YELLIN: Yes, you're going to like this story. OK, how's this for a headline. "White House deadhead."
Yes. The group formerly known as the "Grateful Dead" actually got an Oval Office tour last night. That's according to the "Washington Post."
Now, it's important to mention that they're no longer called the "Grateful Dead" now that Jerry Garcia is gone. They're just The Dead.
Now, word is they have an impromptu talk with the president himself and were very impressed with how neat and tidy the president keeps his desk. It figures (ph).
MARTIN: Right.
YELLIN: They then visited with some of the president's top advisers, David Axelrod and two deputy chiefs of staff. You know, Roland, there's no smoking in the White House, so I doubt this was your typical "Dead" reunion.
MARTIN: They lighted up, huh?
YELLIN: No, but I can personally vouch that "The Dead" is a bipartisan obsession. Some of President Bush's top advisers were crazy for "The Dead" too.
MARTIN: OK. All right. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much, Jessica.
And folks, if you go right now to CNN.com/Campbell, we put up a link so you can see great raw video of Bo's White House debut. Check it out, cnn.com/Campbell. Again, Bo.
Normally, when we say the phones are burning up, that's a good thing, but maybe not when we're talking about your kids sending illicit messages and pictures back and forth on their cell phones. So why is one state thinking about making sexting illegal?
You got an opinion? We want to hear it. Pick up the phone, 1- 877-NO-BULL-0 or 1-877-662-8550. Or drop me an e-mail or look me up on Twitter and Facebook. "Your Turn, Your Voice" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Could a device like this lead to your child being declared a sex offender? And before you say no way, listen to this.
Teens across the nation are sending nude photos of themselves to each other. It's called sexting. It's happening a lot more than you think and your kids could be doing it right now.
According to a national survey, one in five teens have sent nude or seminude pictures of themselves to friends. And that could get them into serious trouble with the law. And joining us right now is Lisa Bloom of truTV.
Lisa, trying to sort this whole thing out. So, beyond the parental issues and the moral implications, how serious is sexting?
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, TRUTV's "IN SESSION": It's very serious. Teens in 12 states have been arrested and charged with child pornography, for taking pictures of themselves and sending them around to their friends. They face up to ten years in prison in some states, and in all states, registering for the rest of their lives as sex offenders.
MARTIN: Now, one of the issues you have so many different rules here because it's not a federal assault (ph). One state might be different than the other state, correct?
BLOOM: That's correct. And Vermont, as you say, is the first state to say, enough. We're not going to charge our teens with child porn. Yes, it's a terrible idea. It's an issue for parents and teachers to handle, but it's not an issue to the criminal justice system. Do we really want to lock up, Roland, one in five kids for doing, let's face it, a lot of adults do as well?
MARTIN: Also, you make the point on this whole issue that it could clog up the justice system?
BLOOM: Well, that's right. We got real scarce resources problem right now. There are rape kits (ph) that are going untested in Chicago. There are DNA tests that murderers on death row say would exonerate them if they can just get somebody to pay for it. So we're going to pay for prosecutors, defense lawyers, judges, police, and jails to incarcerate teens for taking naked pictures of themselves. Come on, I think it's a real waste.
MARTIN: We go to New Jersey with a phone call. Dickinson, what's your comment, please?
DICKINSON, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): I'm 13, and I think it's ridiculous for kids to do that. And what's the point of it to send messages through phone of themselves?
BLOOM: Yes, can I say something to you as a 13-year-old.
MARTIN: Go ahead, go ahead.
BLOOM: This is very, very important. It is ridiculous. It is stupid. But everybody does stupid things once in a while.
Worse than that, though, once the picture is out there on the Internet, you can never get it back. And that's the difference between flashing, mooning, the kind of thing that my generation used to do when we were kids. And the digital age, that's why it's important never to let those pictures get out there in the first place.
MARTIN: How should parents deal with this issue if they come across the child's phone and some photos on?
BLOOM: Yes. I'll tell you what I do, because I've got two teenagers.
First is, they don't even need to have a camera on the cell phone or the computer if you think about it. If you are going to give them that kind of technology, educate them about the risks.
One violation, take it away. Believe me, Roland, they're going to scream and yell if you take away their computer or their cell phone, but it's better than them going to prison.
MARTIN: We're going to Washington State. Here's Reggie.
Reggie, what's your comment?
REGGIE, WASHINGTON (via telephone): I don't think government has any business interfering with private communications. I think that's the parents' job to deal with it. Government needs to pay attention to national security, border control, the terrorists' efforts, drug problems in Mexico, et cetera.
MARTIN: OK. All right. Reggie, thanks so much.
Lisa, isn't this part of the problem, technology, because this is an unknown area just two or three years ago? This is new.
BLOOM: That's right. That's right. And the kids are getting this new technology without any kind of warning.
And look, this is technically child pornography, naked pictures of underage kids. That's why governments are going after them.
MARTIN: All right. Lisa Bloom, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
BLOOM: Thanks.
MARTIN: Folks, just breaking news about another pirate attack off the coast of Africa. We'll have the details in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: This just in to CNN. Another U.S. ship has been attacked by pirates off the coast of Somalia. Erica Hill is here with the latest on this breaking news -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We wanted to get this out to everybody. So this would make the second attack on a U.S.-flagged cargo ship under attack by pirates off the Somali coast.
Now we're just getting details in, and a lot of them actually coming to us and not only from our source at NATO who's confirming this with direct knowledge, but also from an e-mail from one of the folks, one of the sailors on board that ship to his mother.
I want to read you part of that. They've been e-mailing back and forth throughout the afternoon. These e-mails made available to CNN.
This from the son on board saying, "We are under attack by pirates. We are being hit by rockets, also bullets. We are barricaded in the engine room. So far, no one is hurt. A rocket penetrated the bulkhead but the hole is small. Small fire too but put out. Navy is on the way and helos and ships are coming."
Now the same person had been e-mailing with his mother understandably concerned saying, look, the Navy is here. They've been monitoring us. We should be fine -- before the attack.
What else I can tell you about the ship is that it's called the "Liberty Sun" U.S.-flagged ship that is actually on a U.N. grain (ph) mission on route to Mombasa. Again, the pirates did attack it but as far as we can confirm with NATO, they were not able to board the ship. We've not been given exact details on the location. We can tell you though pirates were apparently, they believe, on a mother ship in the area. So you can bet that there will be a lot more information coming out on this. And I believe Anderson Cooper also has an exclusive interview with the mother of that person who is e-mailing later tonight on the show at 10:00.
MARTIN: All right. Erica, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
And folks, stay tuned to CNN for the latest on this attack. And also real quick.
(INAUDIBLE) says, "Sexting should be seen as the same as public nudity and sexual harassment. Logically, there's little difference."
I want to know what you think. We certainly appreciate your calls and your e-mails and your web comments. Keep sending them, Facebook and Twitter. We're online after the show ends.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
