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Campbell Brown
President Obama Meets With Mexican President; Secret Torture Memos Revealed
Aired April 16, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, folks,.
While President Barack Obama spends the night in Mexico, there is breaking news back in Washington, newly released memos giving us even more of an idea of how far the Bush administration was willing to let CIA agents go in interrogating terror suspects. And there's also word that those agents won't have to worry if their decision to follow orders will come back to haunt them.
Our national political correspondent, Jessica Yellin, starts us off tonight.
And, Jessica, certainly some disturbing information in these memos.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is, Roland.
These are four top-secret memos that were written by Bush administration lawyers. And they go into the most detail we have ever heard about interrogation methods used by the CIA on al Qaeda detainees.
Now, some of the methods the Bush lawyers approved include keeping detainees naked, in diapers, on a liquid diet, cramped confinement, and sleep-deprived.
The memos also approved water-boarding a new technique we have not heard of before, placing insects next to the detainee in a box, insects, though a footnote points out that was never used.
Now, the lawyers conclude that, for the techniques to be torture, the interrogators must actually have the specific intent to inflict severe pain or suffering. And the whole point of these memos, Roland, was to give CIA interrogators legal protection, because the interrogators wanted to use stepped-up tactics after 9/11. They didn't want to be charged with breaking a law.
MARTIN: Now, the Obama administration is saying don't expect any prosecutions. What is going on behind that decision?
YELLIN: Well, first of all, they say they have stopped using these techniques.
But the administration explains their decision about not prosecuting, saying, look, they want to look forward. They don't want to punish CIA agents who were just doing their job by following orders.
But you can be sure some in the president's liberal base are enraged. They want prosecutions.
MARTIN: All right, Jessica, thanks a bunch. We certainly appreciate
Folks, the CIA agents who frankly slapped, water-boarded and kept detainees naked, they are getting a free pass. And President Bush is taking heat from his critics, as Jessica just said.
Now, I want to know what my guests think about it.
Joining us right now is Joan Walsh, editor in chief of Salon.com, nationally syndicated radio talk show host G. Gordon Liddy, and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
And, Jeffrey, I want to start with you. The president releases the details of how these prisoners were treated, but then says, look, you can't prosecute any one.
Is that really going to fly politically?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: I think it will, actually, because given this legal advice, it would be impossible to prosecute the people who actually did the interrogations.
You have the highest -- you have assistant attorney generals of the United States saying, go ahead and do it. I don't see how you can prosecute the people in the field.
The person who is really on the hot seat ethically here is Jay Bybee. Jay Bybee was the assistant attorney general who approved these items. He is now a United States appeals court judge. He is untouchable politically, legally, but his status in the legal profession has got to fall dramatically, because this was a really, really shocking and very shoddy memo.
COOPER: So, Jeff, can the people who gave the order be prosecuted?
TOOBIN: That is also put off-limits I think by President Obama's statement.
He wants to get behind this. I think giving bad legal advice, that is not something that I'm aware of has ever been prosecuted. It could be dealt with by bar associations perhaps, but it is not a criminal case. Basically, President Obama said, look, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Let's get out all the -- what happened here, but let's not make a federal case out of it.
COOPER: Hey, Gordon, your son was a Navy Seal and he was water- boarded as part of his training. So, do you think there is anything illegal here in terms of what we did to these prisoners?
G. GORDON LIDDY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, I certainly don't. And when my son was water-boarded, nothing happened. And they said, well, he doesn't have human emotions. He has human emotions. It was a SEAL. I'm really trying to stifle laughter here.
In the box with a bug? I was on "Fear Factor." I think they put 10,000 bugs in the box with me. That's not torture.
Burning at the stake is torture. Boiling in oil is torture. Drawing and quartering is torture. But exposing you to bugs and what have you, slapping you up against a rubber fake wall? Come on, guys.
MARTIN: Hey, Joan, I saw you recoiling a bit there. President Obama made the statement here. He said -- quote -- "It's time for reflection, not retribution."
But how do you think his supporters on the left are going to take this decision?
JOAN WALSH, EDITOR IN CHIEF, SALON.COM: Well, a couple of things, Roland.
I think they are torn about it. I think they applaud the release of these memos. I would also say I would never want to contradict Jeffrey Toobin on issues of law, but in our reporting today, we learned that they are saying they haven't entirely ruled out maybe some day possibly prosecuting someone.
They are making clear that the CIA officials responsible for this will not be prosecuted. But, politically, I don't think they are ready yet to say no one will ever be prosecuted.
I find it hard to expect that they will do that. But they are leaving that door open, at least for now.
To Mr. Liddy, I just want to say, you know, when someone has actually gone to jail for helping a president, President Nixon, spy on his enemies, his views on civil liberties and civil rights are a little bit eccentric.
This is torture. It is illegal. This idea that they slammed -- let's take walling. They slam you against the wall, but, you know, they protect you. They put a towel around your neck, so you don't have whiplash.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: The wall is rubber.
WALSH: This is the level of garbage that they're talking about.
LIDDY: The wall is rubber.
WALSH: It could still hurt people.
They take great -- and then the other thing that is so unbelievable about this memo, you listen -- you look at what Jay Bybee is saying. A, he is calling Abu Zubaydah a high-valued, number two or three guy in al Qaeda. He was basically, according to Ron Suskind, a kind of logistics guy.
And, second, they say he is completely sane? He was crazy. He had multiple personalities. We tortured him and he gave us false information. If there's ever been a better example of, A, the cruelty of torture and, B, why torture doesn't work, it is in these memos. Read it side by side with Ron Suskind's book.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: They did not torture him.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I want to give Gordon a real quick opportunity to response and Jeffrey, 15 seconds each.
Gordon, right ahead.
LIDDY: First of all, Mr. Toobin is correct.
I'm a former prosecutor. There is no way they are going to be successful in prosecuting any of these people under the circumstances.
WALSH: We will see.
LIDDY: Secondly, this is not torture. I went through worse in "Fear Factor," for heaven's sake.
MARTIN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Jeff, go right ahead -- Jeff.
TOOBIN: John McCain thinks water-boarding is torture. George Bush thinks water-boarding is torture now. So, I don't think there's any debate about whether we tortured these people.
The question now are, what is the legal implications of that? It looks like, frankly, there are not going to be any legal implications.
MARTIN: Jeff Toobin, Gordon Liddy, Joan Walsh, thanks a bunch. And we appreciate it.
WALSH: Thank you.
MARTIN: Now, folks, we want you to see the newly released memos unfiltered, so go to CNN.com/Campbell and take a look for yourself.
Also, there is super-tight security in Mexico City tonight, as President Obama meets with his counterpart, vowing both countries will work together to fight back against the gun and drug smuggling that has claimed thousands of lives.
But even the president was only willing to go so far in his promises today. We will hear why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: President Obama is in the capital of Mexico tonight vowing to beef up security along the border and working to slow the flow of guns and drugs.
Now, his latest foreign exchange began this afternoon when he arrived in Mexico City for a quick, but important visit before taking off tomorrow morning for the Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago. After meeting with Mexican President Felipe Calderon, President Obama repeated his support for Calderon's government as a partner in beating back the drug cartels, but the president also tried to limit expectations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, are we going to eliminate all drug flows? Are we going to eliminate all guns coming over the border? That's not a realistic objective.
What is a realistic objective is to reduce it so significantly, so drastically that it becomes once again a localized criminal problem, as opposed to a major structural problem that threatens stability in communities along those borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Now, those are serious issues for the U.S. and our neighbor, but not the only one, as David in Maryland points out in his I-Report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SEAMAN, I-REPORTER: It would be great if President Obama could speak with Mexican leaders and open up a dialogue about dealing with border issues and matters of immigration, because we need to keep people from coming into the U.S. illegally, but we need to find a way to do it that is humane and that still upholds our standing in the world. You can't treat people coming over the border like animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: To discuss this, I now want to bring in Juan Hernandez, senior fellow at the Reform Institute. He's also author of "The New American Pioneers: Why Are We Afraid of Mexican Immigrants?"
And, in Phoenix, Arizona, the man they call America's toughest sheriff, Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County.
So, certainly glad the both of you could join us. Thank you so much very much.
Now, Juan, I want to start with you.
We had a CNN poll that said that a full 75 percent of Americans said that they should -- we should send a large number of troops to the border. Is that a good idea, sending our military to the border?
JUAN HERNANDEZ, SENIOR FELLOW, THE REFORM INSTITUTE: Well, Mexico, the country of Mexico, has sent army to the border, and it's not against the United States. It's to attack the drug lords, so that there is not a flow of the drugs from Mexico into the United States.
That's a good thing. We need to help Mexico more. Now, should the United States put troops on the border? Well, it depends on what these troops are for. If they are somehow to attack Mexico, somehow to keep Mexico away, somehow to go against the war, against the drug lords that Mexico is providing, of course, it's wrong.
Now, if we are going to use it to make sure that the arms and the cash do not go into Mexico, if we are going to use that army so that we have a war on drugs in this nation, as we should have, I think it's great.
MARTIN: Sheriff Arpaio, look, you are a law enforcement man. Do you want to see troops on the front line on the border?
JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: Well, that's a tough one. I was a regional director in Mexico and Latin America for the U.S. drug enforcement.
I saw the military substitute the law enforcement apparatus. I had a little problem with that. If we want to put more resources at the border, you want tanks, give them to the Border Patrol, not to the military. Build up our legitimate law enforcement operations down there.
MARTIN: We are hearing so much about drugs and guns, and it seems as if the border conversation has shifted away from illegal immigration. Is that a smart move or bad move, Sheriff?
ARPAIO: That's a -- I have a concern with that. We are talking about cartels. We are talking about drugs. We forget that it's the illegal immigration problem that's killing people in Maricopa County with the smugglers and the...
HERNANDEZ: Killing people?
ARPAIO: Yes.
HERNANDEZ: Oh, my goodness.
ARPAIO: We had 14 murders.
HERNANDEZ: Please.
ARPAIO: Oh, really?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Juan, one second.
(CROSSTALK) MARTIN: Sheriff, finish your comment.
Then I'm going to Juan.
ARPAIO: Let me finish. You want to come down here, I will show you the 15 murders, where they were kidnapped and executed.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: Come on back, and I will take you on a tour.
HERNANDEZ: I have been many times there, sir.
ARPAIO: So much for your amnesty ideas that you have.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sheriff, thanks a bunch.
Juan, your comment please.
HERNANDEZ: I would just like to say we have about 13 million good people in this nation.
By the way, if we send these 13 million people away, they are consumers. They are spending billions of dollars in this nation. They are working back in the kitchen of the restaurants, so that we can have the waiters up front. They are creating jobs. Let's expand our economy. Let's legalize the undocumented.
MARTIN: Sheriff, real quick, the president today talked about America sharing some of the blame in terms of what is happening here. Should the president be admitting that we have a role in this in terms of guns coming across the border and the drug usage? Good idea by the president or a bad idea?
ARPAIO: No. All at once, it's become guns. It was never was before. So, they are trying to blame the U.S. for all the problems in Mexico? That's ridiculous.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Juan, do we have a responsibility here and a role to play here when it comes to the guns and the drugs?
HERNANDEZ: I know that the sheriff is right there doing a good job, I hope, there at the border.
But the border is not Mexico's border. It's not the United States' border. It's our border of the United States and Mexico. We need to work together, especially to fight those drug lords.
MARTIN: All right.
We certainly appreciate it. Juan, Sheriff Joe, thanks a bunch.
ARPAIO: Thank you.
MARTIN: We look forward to having you again.
And, folks, a special programming note. "LARRY KING LIVE" is at the border tonight and he will have much more on the president's visit to Mexico and the fight against drug and gun smuggling along the border, "LARRY KING" right here after NO BIAS, NO BULL.
Now, tonight, we want to hear what you think of airlines charging obese people for two seats. Do you think that's fair? Listen to this caller.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MIKE, CALIFORNIA: Personally, I'm at the size where I can fit into one seat. If I put on a few more pounds, though, I would probably be a lot bigger and I might need two seats. And, if I took up two seats, then I would expect I would have to pay for two seats.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Do you agree or disagree with Mike? We're taking your phone calls, 1-877-NO-BULL-0, 1-877-662-8550.
Also, don't forget, you can also e-mail or find me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Hey, folks, have you heard Susan Boyle? Amazing voice. And she is the newest overnight singing sensation, an unlikely choice. She is a 47-year-old woman from Scotland who opened her mouth and commanded the world's attention.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: She is just the latest example of the sea change in how our world connects. But she is not the only one. We will show you the growing power of social media.
And you already pay the airlines if your luggage is too heavy, if you want a drink of water and everything else. But what if you are too heavy? One airline is now ready to charge you at least double.
Tell me what you think about that decision, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. You can also e-mail, Roland@CNN.com, or check me out on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MARTIN: Folks, we are starting something new tonight. We call it "Money & Main Street," looking at how the economic headlines are affecting everyday Americans.
Now, one of the biggest headlines today is home foreclosure crisis. Foreclosures are up 24 percent in March.
More of that number in a moment with Ali Velshi.
But, first, we have also found at least one potential bright spot in, of all places, the devastated city of Detroit.
Here's David Mattingly,
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jeremy Burgess knows a bargain when he sees one. This house was too good to pass up.
JEREMY BURGESS, REAL ESTATE INVESTOR: Obviously, I like all the old craftsmanship. That doesn't necessarily sway me one way or another, but I like the location and I like the layout of the house a lot.
MATTINGLY: Burgess is a real estate investor, taking a chance on one of the most depressed markets in the country. He and his company buy, renovate, rent, and flip houses in Detroit, where it's sometimes possible, believe it or not, to find houses selling for less than a steak dinner.
(on camera): Have you seen any $50 houses?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I have seen tons of $50 houses. But let me ask you, is it a good deal to get a house for $50 where there are drug dealers, nobody wants to live, and the house needs $80,000 worth of work, and you can't get an appraisal above $8,000?
MATTINGLY (voice-over): The answer is obviously no. But with so much of the local economy tied to the struggling Big Three automakers, some have resorted to practically giving homes away.
It's a ripple effect that hits even good streets in stable neighborhoods, like this house we showed you earlier. It's an all- brick foreclosure, three bedroom, one-and-a-half bath that appraised to close to $110,000. So, what would you pay for it, $75,000, $50,000, $20,000?
(on camera): How much did you pay for it?
BURGESS: I bought this house for a little over $12,000. And I'm selling it next week to an out-of-state investor for a little over $17,000.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): And Burgess' investment has its own ripple effect. A lot of his houses need serious repair. Much of that work creates jobs through a nonprofit called Blight Busters. JOHN GEORGE, MOTOR CITY BLIGHT BUSTERS: Well, blight is like a cancer. If you don't get in and remove it all quickly, it will spread and infect the whole body, or, in this instance, the whole neighborhood.
MATTINGLY: Vacant houses that would have magnets for crime are fixed up and flipped. Everybody on the street benefits, no stimulus package needed.
BURGESS: I think this is really the perfect example of what a nonprofit and a for-profit with investors can do together to solve a problem that government is having a challenge solving.
MATTINGLY (on camera): Most of the people buying these houses don't live in Detroit and probably never will. They are out-of-state investors, generally, who have cash to spend.
And they believe that Detroit real estate is going to pay off much better than the stock market.
(voice-over): Burgess' company predicts double-digit returns for investors willing to gamble on a better Motown future. The company purchased 40 houses last year. They're on pace to do more than four times that this year.
David Mattingly, CNN, Detroit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: All right, folks, let's bring in chief business correspondent Ali Velshi.
Now, Ali, obviously, Detroit is not the only place in the country dealing with foreclosures. But give us a sense of the new numbers, because they are startling.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. In fact, some of the -- by the way, some of the biggest parts of the country, Las Vegas, parts of California, Stockton.
But let's take look at the national numbers right now. Let's take the three months at the beginning this year, January to March. That's what we have numbers for. Now, you compare them to the same three months January to March of 2008. Take a look at this.
RealtyTrac, which is an organization that follows this, tells us foreclosures are up 24 percent compared to the same time last year. Here's something interesting, Roland. Back in December, a number of banks put a stop on foreclosures, because the government has said they're going to going to come out with a program.
The government came out with that program late February, early March. And those banks have just said they are now going to deal with those people who can refinance or modify their loans. The rest of those foreclosures are moving ahead. So get ready for another wave of foreclosures. This thing is not over yet. Now, the other side of that, and David was alluding to this, interest rates are very, very low. They have come up a little bit in the last week. But 4.73 percent for a 30-year fixed loan if you have got good credit and you can put 20 percent down, so that means you have got to weigh the idea of home prices which might still be going down against the fact that you can lock in to a very low-priced mortgage.
And that is making move into the housing markets and buy houses. Now, you would think that if there was more demand for houses, prices would go up. But that's not happening, Roland, because people are buying these foreclosed homes. So home sales are edging up slightly. Prices are coming down.
The median price for an existing home in the United States, that is the price at which half all of homes are sold for more and half for less, $165,000. When we got into this recession back in December of 2007, it was a lot more, about $208,000. So, prices of homes are down 21 percent in that time. Most people expect they are going to come down a little bit more.
MARTIN: So, the question is, has this market bottomed out in terms of the housing market? And is this a good time to buy a house?
VELSHI: Yes, and you're probably getting this question. I'm getting it an awful lot.
And the question depends on where you live. So, we are looking at average home prices or median home prices. Remember, when you're buying a house or selling a house, the average, the nationwide average doesn't matter at all to you. There are parts of this country very heavy hit early on. We talked about Michigan. You have got California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida. Those places took hits early on.
They might recover sooner. The East Coast hasn't been hit as hard just yet. So, if you want to think about buying a house and locking into those mortgage rates, do some local research and see where you are in the market. But a lot of people are doing exactly that. They are buying now.
Even if rates, even if prices go lower, they are locking in on a good mortgage rate.
MARTIN: All right, Ali, thanks a bunch. We appreciate it.
VELSHI: OK.
MARTIN: Folks, you will find more stories about how the economic headlines are affecting everyday Americans on our Web site. Go to CNN.com/money&mainstreet.
Coming up: your thoughts on the idea that an oversized passenger ought to pay for a second seat.
By way of a preview, here is Lucia in California told us. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LUCIA, CALIFORNIA: This is not anything brand-new. This is a concept that has been thought about for years now. It should not go into effect. It is discriminatory. And it is a dead idea. And they should be reprimanded for the thought.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: You're right. It's not new, but the question is, is it a smart idea? We're talking your calls tonight, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Also, don't forget, you can also e-mail me, Twitter me, hit me on Facebook. We have got all of them -- back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: I've been listening to rap and (INAUDIBLE) magic all day. So, I want to go ahead and pop into the show today, Jessica.
Folks, tonight we want to know what you think of the airlines charging obese passengers for two seats. Is it fair or unfair? Give us a call. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
But first, Jessica Yellin is back with "The Briefing."
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Roland. Just now in Mexico, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs addressed a controversy over the Bush administrations' torture memos that the Obama administration made public today. As we reported at the top of the broadcast, CIA agents who were involved will not face punishment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: These are legal authorizations for specific actions to be undertaken. There are people that looked at the people, the hard-working people at the CIA that did what they were told based on the authorization that they've been given. The president believes it would be unfair to punish those.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs speaking in Mexico.
A U.S. official says the captured Somali pirate who held an American sea captain hostage will now be brought to New York to face trial. No word yet on when he'll get here.
Meanwhile, Captain Richard Phillips who was held hostage for five days is in the Kenyan port of Mombasa today. He is expected to arrive home in Vermont tomorrow.
In New York today, Governor David Paterson pushed for a bill that would make his state the fifth to legalize same-sex marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. DAVID PATERSON (D), NEW YORK: I'm introducing a bill to bring marriage equality to the state of New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: The bill is likely to face opposition in the state Senate.
And finally, it is the end of an era in football. Roland, the legendary NFL announcer John Madden is retiring after nearly 30 years in the broadcast booth. His final telecast was the Super Bowl in February. The former Oakland Raiders coach worked for all four of the major broadcast networks.
You know, Roland, he is 73 years old. He will be greatly missed.
MARTIN: Oh, yes, I love John Madden. I mean, he made watching the game interesting. And so he is truly one of a kind.
So, John, no more bus trip. Enjoy that vacation.
Thanks, Jessica.
Folks, talk about "The Young and the Restless," these days Governor Sarah Palin must be feeling like she's living in a soap opera. It's everything from her daughter's unplanned pregnancy to a family member ending up behind bars, and it's not over yet. We'll catch you up with all the real-life Palin family drama. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: I just wanted to hear that song again, so that's why we played it, Jessica.
We're standing by for live coverage of Governor Sarah Palin's appearance at the Right to Life fund raiser tonight in Indiana. Everything the governor does is news these days, but not all of it is good news. In fact, sometimes a Palin family saga seems more like a real-life soap opera. Jessica Yellin, well, she's back, here with the days of the Palin lives.
YELLIN: You know, Roland, I think you'll agree that when Sarah Palin, even when she lost the election, the nation expected to see a whole lot more of her in the future, but I'm not sure anyone expected these headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Sarah Palin.
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: The dignity of labor and of hard work.
YELLIN: A politician with a meteoric rise, a picture-perfect family and a made-for-TV story. Daytime TV, that is. First, Palin's daughter, Bristol, and her baby daddy, Levi Johnston, split up. Then the teenager's sex life became the talk of "The Tyra Banks Show."
TYRA BANKS, HOST, "THE TYRA BANKS SHOW": Every time you practiced safe sex?
LEVI JOHNSTON, BRISTOL PALIN'S FORMER FIANCE: Yes.
BANKS: Every time?
JOHNSTON: Every time.
BANKS: Levi?
JOHNSTON: Most of the time.
BANKS: Most of the time, there you go.
YELLIN: A Palin family spokeswoman accused the Johnston family of peddling flat-out lies.
(on camera): And like the sands through an hour glass, so are the other dramas in Sarah Palin's life. Just since the election, her half sister-in-law, seen here in the yellow jumper, was charged with felony burglary for allegedly breaking into a house and taking her 4- year-old child with her.
And then there's Sherry Johnston, Levi Johnston's mom. She has been charged with six felony drug counts. She pled not guilty and told the media it's been a rough couple of months.
(voice-over): Our leading lady Sarah Palin has had troubles in her political life, too. Last month, the national Republicans dropped her from a major speaking engagement and replaced her with Newt Gingrich. It's following a breakdown with the governor's staff. And she's ticked off lawmakers in Alaska, too.
Today, they rejected the new attorney general she nominated. He'd referred to gays and lesbians as degenerates. And legislators in both parties are slamming Palin for traveling out of state today as they wrap up their session with the Alaska budget still not approved.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And then, of course, there's the diss by the guy who picked Sarah Palin to be his running mate. We've talked about this the other night. When John McCain was on "The Jay Leno Show," he wouldn't even name Palin in a list of governors who would be the future of the Republican Party, Roland. Ouch.
MARTIN: You know, our sister network TNT has a slogan called "we do drama." That might be a new campaign slogan.
OK, but not all of these have been bad news. YELLIN: No. That's true. A new CNN poll or the latest CNN poll shows that Sarah Palin is at the very top of Republicans' choice to be their nominee in 2012. So, fairly she's doing something right.
MARTIN: All right. Jessica, thanks so much.
Well, folks, Evansville, Indiana, is buzzing tonight about the special guest speaker at tonight's Right to Life fund-raising banquet. Yes, it's Governor Sarah Palin. Family not in tow.
She seems to be stealing the spotlight from her party's national chairman, Michael Steele, who's also there. Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is live in Evansville, Indiana, and she joins us right now.
Now, Candy, Sarah Palin, Michael Steele both at the dinner. They sold 3,000 tickets. So, who's the real draw tonight?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me just give you the numbers. And that is when they found out here that Sarah Palin had accepted their invitation several weeks ago, even before they put the sales out to the public, they sold 350 additional seats. And then when they put those tickets out, they sold 800 more. So they are overflowing here. There's another room, so she is clearly selling the tickets.
And Michael Steele was invited actually before he even became chairman of the RNC. But I would have to tell you in all honesty, that the big draw here is Sarah Palin.
MARTIN: This is her first speech, Candy, this year on the mainland. Why now and why Indiana?
CROWLEY: Well, first of all, this is a very friendly crowd. As you know, Indiana is a pretty conservative state. It did go for Barack Obama last time around, but it's been pretty reliably Republican, at least at the presidential level.
This particular area is also very pro-life, that is very anti- abortion. This is her crowd really. These are conservatives.
When she walked in here earlier tonight, Roland, you know, all of the cell phones were up and taking pictures. They were crowded all around her, so this is a very, very supportive group. And let's face it, it is a core constituency of the Republican Party. And if you are going to run in 2012, it's a pretty good place to start.
MARTIN: All right. Candy Crowley live from Evansville, Indiana. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Folks, you would not believe some of the things people get up to do on the Internet these days? Have you seen this?
A couple of Domino's workers got into a lot of trouble for this video. Are we living our lives online? And, well, is that a bad thing? We'll discuss next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Well, chances are you heard the amazing voice of Susan Boyle already. Erica says once or twice.
Boyle is the web's unlikely new star, wowing the audience from a British reality show to begin with. And then thanks to YouTube, wowing everybody all over the world. Our own Erica Hill is here with more on these two phenomena, Susan Boyle and the outstanding influence of the World Wide Web.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite a combo, these two.
MARTIN: Yes.
HILL: I almost feel like Susan is my BFF. We spent so much time together over the last few days, because she is really everywhere. And it makes her a perfect example of the ever-expanding power of the Internet.
She's gone from millions of computer screens, and when I see millions I mean it. We can't even keep track of the numbers. I think I saw 15 million this morning.
MARTIN: Wow.
HILL: Now on millions of American TV screens, you saw her there popping up on "The Early Show" on CBS this morning. She is going to be on CNN a little bit later tonight. I hear Atika Shubert even got her to sing. So we'll hear a little bit of that coming up. A special report on "AC 360."
All of it began with a simple YouTube clip, though, of her audition. The original and the other version it spawned have been viewed, as we mentioned, millions of times. At last check at one- click, over 15 million views.
It all started last Saturday. She was a contestant on "Britain's Got Talent," which is their version of "America's Got Talent" which we ripped off from "Britain's Got Talent." And then Sunday morning she gets to church, standing ovation for her performance.
This is Easter Sunday. She's there to sing in the choir. The clip starts going global, the rest is history.
Now the show, of course, is far from over. The winners though, Roland, are chosen by viewer votes. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say she's got a little help right now.
MARTIN: This is over.
HILL: I mean, there's four other people in the contest. You know what? We'll just give it to her.
MARTIN: You've got folks in this country going 001 trying to call in at you. HILL: Exactly, exactly.
MARTIN: All right. But look, she's not the only success story when you talk about this whole viral video.
HILL: No, not at all. It's amazing what this has done. A little YouTube goes a very long way.
Lindsay Lohan, remember her? A bit of a rough patch lately, right?
MARTIN: This is fun. This is fun.
HILL: A bit of a rough patch.
MARTIN: This is fun.
HILL: It's great. So there's this new online dating ad which he did. It's a spoof that she did, clearly hoping it's going to help rebuild her brand. Maybe you'll see her in a new light. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I'm looking for a compatible mate who likes a night out on the town, as long as he or she is driving first, likes ankle-monitoring bracelets, and doesn't have family members quick to issue restraining orders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Really cute. All of those -- all of those items, by the way, kind of issues that had been talked about in the tabloids.
MARTIN: In (INAUDIBLE).
HILL: Yes. It's good when you can poke fun at yourself like that and put it online could be an instant hit.
MARTIN: All right. Speaking of celebrities, Mr. Demi Moore and CNN. What's going on with that?
HILL: Otherwise known as Ashton Kutcher.
MARTIN: Yes, somebody says.
HILL: A little bit of a rivalry going on here between CNN, Ashton Kutcher, and Larry King. I mean, while we're keeping score, Larry is all over this.
Bottom line here, Ashton Kutcher on a quest to rack up a million followers on Twitter before CNN's breaking news feed to us, and, we, of course, bet. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHTON KUTCHER, ACTOR: I just thought it was funny that CNN actually has taken me seriously and I like that. I like that. I like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Well, we like that you like that, Ashton. The best part though, beyond increasing our Twitter reach is -- this is actually going to benefit a major charity now, Roland, because Ashton Kutcher has said he's going to donate up to 10,000 mosquito nets in honor of World Malaria Day to bring attention to that. So that's fantastic.
It also shows you, though, not just the reach that Twitter has. I think you can get up to a million people following someone so quickly, but it's also just a huge -- it's an amazing way to get people that immediacy. And that really is part of its power.
MARTIN: Oprah signed up for Twitter.
HILL: I hear Oprah is going to twitter tomorrow or tweet as the case may be with Ashton tomorrow.
MARTIN: Yes, absolutely.
All right. Erica, we appreciate it. Thanks so much.
HILL: Thanks.
MARTIN: All right, folks, this shot. The first place -- actually I'm sorry -- is Internet fame can be a good thing -- I was going to read something else, but we're just going to blow the story off -- well, can create an instant PR crisis.
Joining me right now is LAPR blogger Howard Bragman. He's the author of "Where's my 15 Minutes? Get Your Company, Your Cause, or Yourself the Recognition You Deserve."
Now, Howard, talk about Susan Boyle. To be perfectly honest, she was a nobody -- that's just being nice -- who became a somebody thanks to a viral video. What kind of impact does that have on a person's life?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLIC RELATIONS AGENCY FOUNDER: It changes it overnight. Literally between Saturday night and Sunday morning, her life will never be the same again.
Here is a woman who lived in a village of a couple dozen people and now she's a worldwide sensation. And you know why, Roland? She has something you can't buy. And they call that authenticity.
This woman is real. And we love that because we don't see enough of that, do we?
MARTIN: Well, let's be honest though. You have to harness that and turn it to something viable. So whether it's a record deal, whether it's something else, because just being on YouTube it's all free right now.
BRAGMAN: Absolutely, but guess what? She certainly has gotten into the media circus very quickly. She's been on every morning show, CNN, and you've got to believe that there's concerts, there's record deals. There is money to be made.
You know, I'm thinking a TV movie. I'm thinking books. If I were on her team, we would be negotiating a lot of deals right now.
MARTIN: You know, I remember signing up for AOL in 1994. And all of a sudden now you have YouTube and Facebook and Twitter. I mean, are these, frankly, more powerful ways that we are communicating today?
BRAGMAN: Well, they are. You know while we're talking, we're watching literally big city newspapers die. Every week, we hear about another big city newspaper die. At the same time, there's 200 million people on Facebook. Ashton and CNN are vying for a million people on Twitter. Yes, this is the future.
We still want to get the news, but we're getting it in different ways. And the ability to go viral is hugely important right now because it's not just you telling something, it's you telling your friends. And that has great meaning in the world.
MARTIN: But, Howard, it cuts both ways. Look at the story with the Domino's employees video. They certainly got in trouble for that. So, folks have to be careful in the workplace because it can go the opposite direction.
BRAGMAN: You know I tell my celebrity clients all the time, there is no law between public and private. Everybody has got a cell phone that's got a video camera in it nowadays. And you've got to think when you do something, and these two people worked at Domino's, clearly weren't thinking.
I mean, we aren't talking college kids here. We're talking two people in their 30s who knew better. And they should be -- you know, this was just stupid. And I'm sure in the training manual...
MARTIN: All right.
BRAGMAN: ... it didn't say that in Domino's training manual don't put the cheese up your nose because they're thinking nobody is that stupid.
MARTIN: I got you.
BRAGMAN: Guess what? Somebody is that stupid.
MARTIN: All right. Howard, we certainly appreciate it. Howard Bragman, thanks a bunch.
Folks, "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up at the top of the hour. Larry is out in California, just this side of the Mexican border.
Larry, what are you working on?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": First, if anyone tells you it's always warm in California, they're lying. I'm at the California- Mexico border. I've got four jackets and five sweaters, and I'm still freezing. I'm freezing because of the wind.
Boy, we've got a great show tonight. Lots to deal with, of course, with the violence taking place between Mexico and the resulting effect on the United States. And the visit, of course, of Barack Obama.
Barack is going to be speaking during our program. And he's at this major address tonight at a big dinner across the way in Mexico City, quite a distance across the way. We're right across from Tijuana. The mayor of Tijuana and others will be with us all coming up at the top of the hour.
MARTIN: Larry, you need my sweater (ph) from the inauguration to keep warm. Hey, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Folks, we're getting a ton of response from you about the airline's decision to start charging overweight people extra if they take up two seats. Is that fair?
We're taking your phone calls tonight. Give us a shout. 1-877- 662-8550. Also, you can e-mail me. Hit me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Oh, come on now, we love dancing out.
Now, real people and real issues. Imagine what it would be like to try and fit yourself into an airline seat, only to be told you are too big and you need to pay more because of it? Not a new idea, but now one of the nation's biggest carriers, United, has joined the fleet of airlines ready to punish those flying while obese.
Here's how it works. Say a passenger in coach can't squeeze into a seat, buckle their seatbelt, or put the arm rest down all the way, that's when they might have to pay for two seats. Now the question we're posing, does this make any sense at all?
With me right now is Lisa Bloom, anchor of "In Session" on truTV.
Now, Lisa, a lot of folks have been hitting us on Twitter and Facebook and calling in about this deal.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": Yes.
MARTIN: And so, look, other airlines are doing this as well the last six, seven years? Is this really legal? Is it fair? Is it discriminatory?
BLOOM: OK. Southwest Airlines has been doing this for years and they've been hit with a number of lawsuits, all of which they've won. And here's why.
Most jurisdictions don't recognize discrimination based on weight. So if somebody wants to bring a lawsuit, they have to say that their weight is a disability. Under this federal Americans with Disabilities Act, weight is generally not protected with one exception, people who are morbidly obese. That's double the average body size for your height.
Those people could be protected because that's considered to be a disability. Usually, it's a medical condition that causes that, not the fault of the person who's obese. And those people have the right to an accommodation. That might mean more than one seat on a plane.
MARTIN: So why are the airlines saying they're doing this? They're saying it's necessary, why?
BLOOM: Well, they say -- United Airlines says they've gotten a lot of complaints from customers. They don't want to sit next to an overweight person who puts the arm rest up, is coming over into the space of the other passenger. And so they're just responding to customer complaints. Probably also there's a cost factor. They don't want to give two seats for the price of one.
MARTIN: OK. Well, I think -- the thing that really jumps out is that whole notion of other passengers complaining about this as well.
BLOOM: Right.
MARTIN: And so, it's not a large percentage but they're saying, hey.
BLOOM: But if it's discrimination, Roland, it really doesn't matter if people are complaining.
MARTIN: Right.
BLOOM: What if somebody says I don't want to sit next to an African-American on a plane? Guess what, too bad. We have civil rights laws. And so, if these folks are protected from discrimination, customer complaints really wouldn't matter.
MARTIN: Well, folks have been complaining and writing all over the place. We're going to go to the phone lines.
And so, we're going to first go to Winston. He's actually in North Carolina.
Winston, you have about 20 seconds, sir. What's your comment?
WINSTON, NC (via telephone): Well, the airlines are a business and they are transporting people. If I send a package UPS or through the U.S. Post Service where it's going through the air, they're going to charge by the weight or the size of the package. It isn't one rate regardless of the weight or the size of the package. So why would it be any different with people?
MARTIN: OK. Winston, great comment.
Lisa, what about that? Winston is basically saying, look, they're a commodity. BLOOM: Yes, people are not packages. There's a big difference. Our law protects people against discrimination. If these are disabled people, for example, a person in a wheelchair takes up more space on a bus, we don't charge them twice, do we?
MARTIN: Good point. We're going to the great, wide-open Wyoming.
Christine, what's your comment please?
CHRISTINE, WY (via telephone): I think the airlines are being unfair to large people. Their seats are too small. They cut them by two-thirds 20 years ago. They're even crowded for thin people.
And it seems that they've forgotten that they're a service industry and they need to plan to accommodate everybody, people of all sizes. And have bigger seats, at least a few of them to accommodate all of us.
MARTIN: I agree, Christine. A lot of these seats are real small. Thanks for your phone call.
Here's what Darryl said on Facebook.
"Not fair. You buy a ticket as a single passenger and you're entitled to a seat. People come in all shapes and sizes. What if a person has a medical condition? What about athletes? Would a 300 lb. linebacker now have to buy two seats? And then who becomes the size police? Who's going to be standing around with a tape measure and a scale? I can already see the lawsuit from this decision."
So pretty interesting comments there. Let's go to California where Larry is.
Jack, what's your comment.
JACK, CA (via telephone): I get on an airline and I have to sit next to a person that can't push themselves away from the dinner table. I can't get my chair seat down. I can't get my tray down. I've been that way before. I've had to lose weight because the doctor told me it wasn't healthy. These people need to push away from the table and drop the weight.
MARTIN: OK, we certainly appreciate it. It sounded like somebody in the back saying, "Jack, you're on. You won."
Lisa, final comments.
BLOOM: Yes, it's not so easy for people. You know, 65 percent of Americans are overweight. And people who are morbidly obese often have a serious medical condition so they deserve I think a little sensitivity in this discussion.
MARTIN: It sounded like Jack is saying if you've got body odor, it's all bad too.
Lisa Bloom, we --
BLOOM: That you control hopefully, especially if you're sitting next to me on a plane.
MARTIN: Lisa, we appreciate it. Thanks so much.
BLOOM: Thanks.
MARTIN: Folks, back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: The crew will like that song. Folks, I want to thank all of you who called and e-mailed your comment. Your voices are important, and we love hearing from all of you.
Look, we'll be back tomorrow, same time, same place.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. Hola!
