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Nancy Grace
Police Analyze Casey Anthony`s Social Life
Aired April 16, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Inside tot mom`s murder investigation, we first learn police spend hundreds of man-hours creating a high-tech analysis of tot mom`s sleep patterns, checking every movement, based on thousands of cell calls and texts, texting and calling until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, up by 6:00 or 7:00 AM to go at it again, nights spent feverishly texting in the hours and days after Caylee goes missing.
Well, tonight we have the police tracking chart, and now we uncover a whole new strategy by homicide detectives, not only tracking cell and sleep patterns but painstakingly charting tot mom`s social life -- that`s right, every single sleepover, beer party, poker night, bar hopping and one-night stand during the weeks before and after Caylee`s disappearance. Why? To pinpoint not only the day of little Caylee`s murder but to ID just how long chloroform was the baby-sitter.
In a stunning about-face, the state brings down the hammer, announcing they will seek the death penalty against tot mom. And tonight, blood relatives and former friends recount to police their take on tot mom`s guilt, and it`s all on video. We have the video.
We learn Anthony private eye has a falling out with the Anthonys over money. What will that mean at trial? Police digging through the trash and tot mom`s car, taking reams of photos to document the contents. But why? We have the photos. More raw footage of grandparents George and Cindy Anthony being confronted under oath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Casey Anthony is public enemy number one.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: There was a media van that followed us, and another van (INAUDIBLE) It`s happened before. It happens every day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the jurors find her guilty of first-degree murder, then after that, there will be a penalty phase devoted solely to determine whether the aggravating factors outweigh the mitigating factors - - in other words, the reasons for versus the reasons against death.
CASEY ANTHONY: This is something, honestly, I`ve been preparing for from the beginning.
BAEZ: They`ve been trying to intimidate Casey Anthony from day one, and it didn`t work then. It`s not going to work now.
GRACE: The Anthony family reacts to the announcement the state will seek the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they say that`s not going to change their love for Casey, they`re standing by her, she deserves a fair trial and that she`s innocent until proven guilty. If four jury members convict her, then they`ll cross that bridge when they get there.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: She told me she was protecting Caylee and she`s protecting the family. And until this day, I still believe that she`s protecting Caylee and the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news, Tracy, California. The search for 8-year-old Sandra Cantu comes to an end, her body folded into a suitcase in a nearby irrigation pond. Prime suspect, 28-year-old female Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby, now charged with sex assault and murder in the death of the 8-year-old girl. Huckaby under suicide watch after swallowing Exacto knife blades. It didn`t work.
We also learned the very night she`s arrested, she sends text messages including "lol," laugh out loud. Bye-bye, insanity defense. She swears to family and friends she`s innocent, then changes her story, claiming the 8- year-old`s death was an accident. Well, was the alleged rape an accident, too?
We also uncover a dry run. Yes, a guilty plea to theft from a local Target store just five months ago, and there she tried to plead incompetence. But hold on. Two psychiatrists say no way. This Sunday school teacher better start praying!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crime of murder in violation of section 187 of the penal code, a felony, was committed by Melissa Huckaby at the time and place last aforesaid, did willfully and unlawfully and intentionally, with malice aforethought, murder Sandra Cantu...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very destructive woman who had access to many, many children in Sunday school.
GRACE: Reports out of KOVR from several parents say this woman may have been involved in child pornography.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shortly after Sandra Cantu`s body was found, there was a search warrant served in the trailer park and also at the church, and a computer was taken from the church. So we`re not sure where the pornographic images may have come from, if they, in fact, exist, if they may have existed on one of those computers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Friends, family and those touched by the tragic death of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu will pay their final respects today. Mourners attend a public memorial today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight-year-old murdered, the body stuffed in a suitcase found at the bottom of a pond in Tracy, California. It`s that woman right there, Melissa Huckaby, who is accused in this crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Inside tot mom`s murder investigation, we first learn police spend hundreds of man-hours creating a high-tech analysis of tot mom`s sleep pattern, tracking every movement based on thousands of cell calls and texts, texting until 3:00 o`clock in the morning, up at 6:00 AM to go at it again, nights spent feverishly texting in the hours and days after little Caylee goes missing.
Tonight, we have those police tracking charts. But now we uncover a whole new strategy by homicide, not only tracking cell phone and sleep patterns, but charting tot mom`s social life -- every sleepover, beer party, poker night and one-night stand when Caylee disappears. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I think the lack of communication has put people at odds (INAUDIBLE) when everybody has the same goal, is to find Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez reacted, saying that he`s standing by her. He`s prepared her for the possibility that they this may happen and that they`re ready to fight for her life.
BAEZ: The day I accepted responsibility for Caylee Marie Anthony`s remains, I took on a grave responsibility.
CASEY ANTHONY: So I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence, which I guess is my point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) as far as you can take (INAUDIBLE) prove your innocence. What do you mean (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: Serving the indictment today and the warrant for my arrest, everything else.
RICK PLESEA, CASEY`S UNCLE: They believe everything that Casey says. It`s, like, are they blind? I`m -- my last e-mail to her, I go, You guys will go down in history as the stupidest parents in the universe.
CINDY ANTHONY: What you`re trying to do...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. Ma`am I...
CINDY ANTHONY: ... is add insult to injury.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m really not getting into...
CINDY ANTHONY: You know, I don`t need...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m really not getting into that.
CINDY ANTHONY: ... to sit again -- when I find out that I`ve been videotaped, that was a cruel thing in my life that they did to me, OK, to tape me on a day that I go in there, and you know, and I`m distraught over my granddaughter and everything. And it`s cruel for you to sit there and make me watch it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to anchor and reporter Mark Williams, standing by in Orlando. What`s the latest, Mark?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Nancy, yesterday, of course, we tracked Casey Anthony`s cell phone and sleeping habits. Today we get into the mind of investigators. They were tracking their movements on a handwritten calendar that they had hung in the sheriff`s office. On it, their timeline, their interviews with Jesse Grund and Tony Lazzaro and Amy Huizenga, and also one key date, such as June 17th and 18th, when she allegedly borrowed a shovel from a neighbor.
GRACE: You know, we have those police charts. We have obtained them and they are meticulous. We`re going to show them to you better than I can do by hand.
Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. What do we learn? And who cares about tot mom`s one-night stands, her beer parties, her poker nights? Why do we care about that?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it looks like detectives were trying to figure out exactly where Casey was during the months of June and July, if Caylee was with her, if anybody else saw Caylee, if anybody heard her in the background during a phone conversation. They wanted to figure out where Casey Anthony was telling people Caylee was during this time. So you see dates where she says -- on this particular date, she told Amy Huizenga she was at the beach with the nanny. On another particular date, she told Cindy Anthony they were somewhere with the nanny.
GRACE: And bottom line, Ellie, what do we learn, especially, Ellie Jostad, around those key dates. The last time we can pinpoint she was seen was around June 16, after her trip to her grandfather in a rest home for Father`s Day.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, what`s interesting is Casey Anthony originally told cops that the last day she saw Caylee was on June 9th. Now, you`ll remember that that date was later changed. Cindy Anthony said, You know, it wasn`t the 8th, June 8th that we went to go visit Grandpa, it was actually June 15th. But investigators mark on these notes that they think that Casey Anthony came up with the June date, June 9th, because her mother initially said June 8th.
GRACE: Ah! Because then they both later changed their stories when they realized the actual date of Father`s Day, but by that time, tot mom had already stopped cooperating with police, so she never told them the actual last date she saw the little girl.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, Atlanta, Paul Batista, defense attorney, author of "Death`s Witness" in New York, Peter Odom, veteran defense attorney, Atlanta.
Eleanor Dixon, why does the state care about every night tot mom shacked up with a different guy? Who cares? What`s the relevance?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: The relevance is finding where Caylee is and when she was with her mom, Casey, because those people can say, Hey, Caylee wasn`t spending the night with us that night. Casey wasn`t taking her to the party. So it shows where Caylee was or wasn`t.
GRACE: Do you believe, Peter Odom, they will learn just how long chloroform had been the baby-sitter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, their primary purpose or the stated purpose, they`re going to tell you, is that they want to prove the circumstances of the child`s death, maybe the chloroform. But their real purpose is to smear her character, and that`s what they`ve been doing right along.
GRACE: OK, Paul Batista, please give me a different answer. Don`t let the second verse be the same as the first.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There is no real point, Nancy, to this meticulous guide that they`re preparing. This is all -- and I have to agree with Peter -- an effort to prove the homicide by her lifestyle. And I find it objectionable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak! You want me to talk, then...
CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... give me three seconds to say something.
CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.
BAEZ: She`s aware of the forces that are out to get her.
CASEY ANTHONY: I spent the day almost completely by myself, just completely and utterly miserable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked her, Well, where`s Caylee? Who`s watching Caylee? And that`s when she tells me Caylee is with the nanny at the beach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did not mention to us that Caylee was missing. We were under the impression that she was with the nanny. Or we would ask her about it and we would just move on because it seemed normal that she was with the nanny, she wasn`t at our place.
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s just obscene, everything that`s gone on out there.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, it`s obscene, the stuff that people are saying. But you know what? Again, they`re ignorant, and we have to look at it like that. I know that -- the most negative stuff that`s being said and it`s sickening. It`s disgusting. And people really need to get a life. And if they have nothing positive to say, need to shut up.
CINDY ANTHONY: He asked me a question and he won`t let me finish it.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I`m over this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever tell you, Mom, Caylee and I stayed over at Ricardo`s house?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s fair to say that would have been probably something you would have disapproved of because Caylee really should have been home in her own bed.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`d have to know the circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Can you think of a circumstance around the June time period where it would have been something you approved of, having Casey and Caylee sleep over at Ricardo`s house without you knowing about it?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what the circumstance would be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So if, in fact, Caylee and Casey were staying at Ricardo`s house on June 7th...
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s not my decision where Casey stays. She`s an adult, and Caylee`s her daughter. It`s not up to me to say where Caylee stays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would that...
CINDY ANTHONY: So clarify that question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine. Would that -- on June 7th, would that have been something you`d want to know about, though?
CINDY ANTHONY: No. It`s none of my business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, as it turns out, it`s become the police`s business. We find out that they have not only tracked tot mom`s sleep patterns through, conservatively speaking, 4,000 cell phone calls and texts within a short period of a few weeks, we now learn they have meticulously charted her social life -- that`s right, every keg party, clubbing, bar hopping, sleepover, one-night stand, all centered around the time little Caylee goes missing. But why?
Back to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, defense lawyer Paul Batista, Peter Odom, as well, out of Atlanta.
Eleanor Dixon, the two defense attorneys are crying because they don`t like what this social calendar is proving. They claim it`s just an attempt by detectives to smear her character. You know what? She`s already done that herself. But what this does prove -- on all these various nights she`s out partying without Caylee and nobody knows where Caylee is? The grandmother doesn`t have her, the brother, the grandfather. The sleepovers don`t know where she is. Is she locked up in the trunk, sleeping with a rag soaked with chloroform? That`s what this is about.
DIXON: Exactly, Nancy. And look, you said it yourself. These are very meticulous notes. These investigators were doing a very thorough job of showing where Caylee was not.
GRACE: Yes. Look at that. You think he knows where Caylee is that night?
(LAUGHTER)
DIXON: Well, maybe he`s looking in this girl`s bra over there. But I`m certain that Caylee was not there.
GRACE: So Batista and Odom -- first to you, Odom. Why do you think that police are specifically trying to smear her character? Did you see that last shot of her urinating out in public? I don`t think she needs the police`s help.
ODOM: Well, if their case is so strong on the murder, why do they need to be engaging in character assassination? I`m questioning why they`re doing it.
GRACE: Hey, you know what, Batista? It was her responsibility where she went every night, what she did. It was her responsibility to take care of Caylee. If this had stated she was at high mass every evening at 7:00 PM, that`s what it would have showed. This isn`t the police`s fault, Batista.
BATISTA: Nancy, if this were about whether she was a good mother or a bad mother, she`d be convicted. This is a homicide case. There is still no eyewitness. There is still no forensic proof. There is still no confession. These millions of text messages, does she once say anything incriminating? We haven`t heard that yet.
GRACE: Oh, other than the reams of lies she told police.
Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Let`s bring in a professional. We need a shrink. What about it, Bethany? What does this show?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, this is not about, Was she a good mother or was she a bad mother? This is about, Was she a mother at all? There is no child in Casey`s world. I mean, does she mention her to anybody else? Was she bringing money and Pampers to pass along to the nanny? Was she talking to the nanny on the phone? I think not.
So in interviewing all these people, they`re going to find out that little Caylee was nowhere in Casey`s psyche. And furthermore, this proves a total anti-social personality pattern -- failure to take up financial obligations -- she didn`t have a job -- hypersexuality, promiscuity, and possible drug use, which is part of anti-social personality because according to all these text messages and cell phone calls, she only slept three or four hours a night. What is that, meth, cocaine? You know, that`s going to be looked into, as well.
GRACE: Dr. Marshall, while I`ve got you on the camera, can you please explain this guy out of San Diego, California? His name is Michael Kelly. He`s sending more money orders to tot mom, now almost $400 worth.
MARSHALL: You know what? I really think it`s just kiss, kiss, bang, bang. And what I mean by that is the idea of dangerous sex, having sex with someone who can be loving and sexy at one moment...
GRACE: He`s in San Diego, California.
MARSHALL: Well...
GRACE: They`ve never met.
MARSHALL: ... it`s a fantasy. It`s a fantasy. It`s in his head.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone had told you there was maybe some posturing towards laying some blame on you?
JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about that, please?
GRUND: I was told by an individual who was working with the Anthony family who had got to sit in on a couple of the attorney meetings that Casey was telling her attorneys -- and Cindy was backing her up on this -- that I killed Caylee, that I planted the evidence in the car, that I had access to the car because I had keys -- and that I was framing her because of my obsession with Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: I would like Jesse to stay as far away from you guys as possible. I don`t know if I can trust him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Not only do we learn police knew (ph) a strategy, detailing tot mom`s sleep patterns, but now a whole new take, police charting her social life -- that`s right, every keg party, sleepover, one-night stand she had in the weeks surrounding the dates that little Caylee goes missing. Why? To identify the possible date of the little girl`s murder, as well as just how long chloroform had been the baby-sitter. Also, we find out police conduct in-depth interviews with blood relatives and friends, getting their take on tot mom`s possible built.
Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Who did police interview?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Amy Huizenga, Tony Lazzaro, Ricardo Morales, Jesse Grund, basically her friends and lovers, even Lee Anthony. And they pieced together each little piece of information to track her movements. She starts -- starting in June 2008, she starts going out late at night, staying out more. They don`t know exactly where Caylee is. I think it`s interesting when you look at the calendar, it says, Where is Caylee, in question marks. So even investigators at that point don`t know where she is.
So very interesting how they are meticulously tracking her every movement. Unfortunately, it was a meter reader that ended up finding the body. So all these man-hours, when you track her phones and all this tracking, it`s incredible that it was a meter reader who accidentally stumbled across the body.
GRACE: Take a listen to what blood relatives and former friends had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLESEA: I invited them all in. And we`re all talking because I hadn`t seen them for a long time. And when I got Cindy and George alone, I said, Cindy -- I said, George, I said, what`s up with Casey? I said, You got something to tell me, what`s going on here? And they go, What? And I said, She`s expecting?
And they looked at me like I was crazy. And I looked over at my wife- to-be, and she said -- she just rolled her eyes, you know? And I said, Cindy, I said, she looks like she`s pregnant. Come on. And Cindy goes, Oh, no. No, she`s not. She`s just put on weight. I said, Cindy, I said, I`ve seen a lot of pregnant girls, I said, but I`m not an expert, but man, I said, she looks pregnant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: 911, what`s your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I called a little bit ago, the sheriff, I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She`s been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you are here to clear this Zenaida Gonzalez`s name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true, ma`am, that the date you examined that signature was on June 17th?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. The date I examined that signature .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the date that she was there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . was two days ago.
DISPATCHER: What is the address that you`re calling from?
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a three-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though that the police had told you that Casey had told you that this Zenaida Gonzalez was not the person she picked out you went on TV and did not clear her name that night, didn`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No because I did not know .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no. The way .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, because I didn`t know her name was C. Zenaida Gonzalez.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter`s been missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You slandered me on TV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that she was fabricating it during that time period because her motivation was to let you know that she was staying at some guy`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she fabricated the story because she did not have Caylee with her and she knew if she came home without Caylee that would be a red flag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that red flag would mean something was probably wrong.
CINDY ANTHONY: Something happened. Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We also learned that police meticulously combed through tot mom`s car and photographed every single piece of evidence in the car including the trash. Take a look, out to Steve Cardigan, former police detective in New York why the photos of the trash, Steve?
STEVE CARDIGAN, FOMER NY POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, Nancy, it`s law enforcement`s job to document every single thing that was in that vehicle. They don`t know whether at that moment or some time in the future that whatever is contained within that vehicle since it is a crime scene and it where at least the dogs hit off on the scent of death, so it`s our job to document, document and re-document.
GRACE: You know, I`m taking a look at the photos myself which I`ve got right here in my hand and out to you, Peter Odom, I hardly think that Cherry Coke, Dr. Pepper, a Stouffers, I don`t think any of that adds up to the smell of human decomposition, there`s Crystal Light and Mountain Dew. Where does the smell of human decomposition come in?
ODOM: Very likely, Nancy from a decomposing body, but we don`t know exactly how that body got in there and where I part ways with the people commenting on this case is everyone is willing to jump to conclusions when this is still a case that`s full of questions. We have no crime scene, we have no mechanism of death. Let`s just wait and see.
And until we know .
GRACE: Well, we know one crime scene is where the body was buried and that was hidden.
ODOM: That`s not where she was killed.
GRACE: That was 15 houses from the Anthonys` home, so you think -- let`s just think through your theory, Peter Odom, that some unknown attacker took the child, killed her and then snuck back in to tot mom`s neighborhood to hide the body? Does that make sense to you, Peter Odom?
ODOM: I don`t have a theory. Nothing makes sense. There are just too many questions and you`re jumping to conclusions too quickly.
GRACE: It makes sense to me.
Battista, how do you explain the smell of human decomposition in the car, oh, let me add there`s Arm and Hammer cleaning detergent in there and some Crystal Light. Do you think any of that e even combined can equal the smell of death?
BATTISTA: Nancy, who says there was the smell of human decomposition in the trunk of that car?
GRACE: Everybody that smelled it.
BATTISTA: No one has established that.
GRACE: Everybody that smelled it including her own parents.
BATTISTA: No one has established that, Nancy. There may be a forensic from some justice department who will testify to that, but that is still an open question.
GRACE: Really?
BATTISTA: Yes.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Ellie Jostadt (ph), our chief editorial producer. Correct me if I`m wrong, Ellie, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that both the grandparents state either on 911 or to police that they smelled the smell of death as they said it in the car, grandmother Cindy said smells like there`s a damn - "a dead body in the damn car" were her exact words and not only that, air samples were taken out of the car trunk specifically that we know of and sent to cutting-edge technology at Oakridge Laboratories, and I have read their results and they confirm human decomposition in the car. Their tests were consistent with human decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s all correct.
GRACE: OK. Battista?
BATTISTA: Who made the mother and the father experts on whether a particular odor is the result of human decomposition?
GRACE: Well, he was a cop and she`s a nurse. Help me out here.
BATTISTA: There was absolutely no basis to say that they gave an expert view that that was human decomposition.
GRACE: OK. He was a cop and she`s a nurse. You know what? Forget about them, what about Oakridge Laboratories? The highest tech labs in the country outside of Quantico. You say they`re not experts, too?
BATTISTA: Nancy, any expert testimony is subject to cross- examination, cross-checking, the state surely will put in that evidence whether the jury believes it is another issue.
GRACE: You know what? You`re not making any sense. Dixon, weigh in.
DIXON: What these defense attorneys are saying is laughable. What else we have to remember is the dog. The dog hit on the odor of decaying flesh, decomposition and that`s important, too, all those things together equal a dead body.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Joshua Perper, he is the chief medical examiner of Broward County, the author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, you are very familiar with Oakridge Laboratories and their technology. What do you make of their results?
PERPER: Well, their reports indicates that there are chemical byproducts which indicate that this was the result of human decomposition. It`s true they can be subjected to cross-examination, but the cross- examination has to be supported by contradicting expert opinion.
GRACE: To Dr. Perper again, Dr. Perper, we are facing the possibility of a death penalty. We know the process of the electric chair, but how does the needle work? Death by lethal injection? Do you know the ingredients of the injection?
PERPER: Yes. Basically there are three ingredients. The first ingredient is sodium pentathol, this is a short-acting barbiturate which basically puts the person to sleep and then there is pancuronium, a product which basically paralyzes the body so there are no involuntary movements or spasm and after that, the individual is injected with potassium chloride, that`s a chemical which is also present in the blood normally, but in large amounts basically shuts off the heart and the heart stops.
GRACE: So basically she`ll just fall asleep if the jury decides that.
To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who will be under oath in this case. Leonard Padilla, what do you make of police tracking her social life with this detailed calendar?
PADILLA: Well, they have to track the social life to make sure that Caylee was not seen after the 16th -- right. But, see, George didn`t see her walking out of the house. The child was dead about 1:15, 1:30 in the morning. The last time she was seen by one of the gentleman at the local hotels where the towers ping as if she was at the house or that hotel, it would ping the same. The gentleman saw her in the parking lot of the hotel walking into the park with the child.
What they have to do now is focus on those pings and they`re doing it already to see tower strength and the FBI`s looking into it also.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With regret I`m here to inform you that the skeletal remains are those of the missing toddler Caylee Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would be on your list of potential people currently that did this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not going to discuss that with you, sir.
CASEY ANTHONY: In my gut she`s still OK. It still feels like she`s close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is your daughter or that list?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not did going to discuss anything about my daughter further with you.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m got anxious because I thought Caylee was with Casey. I told her tell me where Caylee is or I`m going to go to the police. She said she`s with Zanny, do what you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the 31 day time period when Caylee, in your mind was missing.
CINDY ANTHONY: Thirty one day period Caylee was not missing in my mind.
From day one you guys are building a case against Casey as a murderer.
My daughter may have mistruths out there, or half-truths, but she is not a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter what has been portrayed or no matter what has been brought against my daughter at the moment I`m going to stand alongside my daughter no matter what.
ANNIE DOWNING, WITNESS: If Casey harmed Caylee she didn`t do it alone. I know that for sure. Casey`s not that smart.
POLICE: What makes you -- what makes you say that? What makes you say she would not have been alone when she harmed Caylee?
DOWNING: Like I said, she was an overprotective mother. She wasn`t - - I mean, I was one of her best friends for a year -- a solid year of Caylee`s life and I couldn`t even hold Caylee, you know? Caylee would scream.
POLICE: Why would you say somebody else is involved?
DOWNING: I just don`t think Casey`s that smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We also learn that family and friends that claim tot mom was not smart enough to commit murder alone? Out to Ellie Jostad, who said that and what do they mean?
JOSTAD: This is her friend Annie Downing. Annie`s name came up because there was an online chat that Casey was having with Jesse Grund and she said I can hit up my friend Annie for Xanax. So cops subpoena Annie. They talk to her and she says she never gave her Xanax and in this conversation they asked her whether or not she thought Casey Anthony was responsible for what happened to Caylee. She said if she harmed here she didn`t do it by herself because she`s not smart enough.
GRACE: But bottom line, Mark Williams, according to police, regardless of what friends and family say nobody else is charged, but her.
WILLIAMS: She`s the only one. Caylee is the only child dead and everybody else is alive and well and her defense lawyer, Jose Baez is still keeping a lot of things close to the vest. You know, still claiming that Zanny the Nanny was the person involved. Again, nobody else charged. We don`t know where this case is going, but I know the state has a pretty good case against Casey Anthony.
GRACE: To telecommunications expert, Ben Levitan joining us out of Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Levitan, we have gone exhaustively over the phone records, but you`re the expert. In the final analysis, we know police have tracked her cell calls, her text messages and her social life. What, in a nutshell, did you learn from your own analysis of her cell and text messages?
LEVITAN: Well, I can confirm what the police have said and we did that back in November, Nancy. You, on your show, we said she slept two to three hours a night and we said that on the 16th all of a sudden it appeared that she slept for 12 hours on the 16th and 12 hours on the 17th which broke the pattern. Now, I analyzed four days ahead of the 16th and four days behind the 16th and like you said on your show yesterday, there`s a tremendous amount of circumstantial evidence in this case.
So I think we`re being misdirected. I think what`s going on in a lot of these capital murder cases that I`ve been involved in, there`s a wiretap that`s authorized by a judge, and I think all this publicity that`s going on is just kind of a distraction to try to get people on the wiretaps to say something wrong, and I will bet you that`s why we have a death penalty situation that has come up this week. Somebody has said something on a wiretap that maybe closes that final loop and gets rid of all the circumstantial evidence and says this is what we`re going to hang the case on.
GRACE: With us, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh, North Carolina. Ben Levitan. Very quickly, I want to give you the latest on the death of Sandra Cantu, the eight-year-old girl and the arrest of a female Sunday school teacher for alleged rape and murder of a child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we`re asking is for the public, if they have any indication that any of their children may have had inappropriate contact with Miss Huckaby to contact us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huckaby is charged with one count of murder with special circumstances, in the death of Sandra Cantu, her daughter`s playmate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Special circumstances of kidnapping, performance of lewd and lascivious acts upon a child under the age of 14 and rape by instrument.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did not enter a plea during the arraignment, but she did sob and even flinched when the victim`s name was mentioned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s having medical evaluations that were in the context of an ongoing case. Obviously, any mental issues would have an effect on this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She sobbed and she flinched for the cameras. OK. To Bob Moffitt, KFBK News talk 1530, is it true, Bob Moffitt that, in just November of 2008, that`s about five months ago she had a dry run, trying to claim incompetence in a theft case, stealing from a local Target, not one, but two shrinks analyzed her and said no, she`s fine?
BOB MOFFITT, KFKB CORRESPONDENT: Well, in exchange for her guilty plea in January to that petty theft case, she did receive what was tantamount to probation and also with a caveat that if she went into a mental health program and passed that program that that conviction could be expunged from her record.
GRACE: Did she go into the program? Do we know, Bob?
MOFFITT: Yes. She is in that program and has been under medical evaluation since and the medical evaluation with the sound clip you just ran, that was in reference to that conviction and to that program with which she is already involved.
GRACE: Do we know what she tried to steal from Target?
MOFFITT: I do not know.
GRACE: Out to Sebastian Koontz with KNEW radio. What can you tell me about the latest? We know she swallowed some X-acto knife blades. Didn`t work. What`s the latest in the investigation, Sebastian?
SEBASTIAN KOONTZ, KNEW CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, the latest is -- I mean, the very latest is that Sandra herself was put to rest yesterday and the public memorial happening today. As far as the suspect, well, we`re waiting for next Friday when she will next appear in court with her public defender and we`re still awaiting details on all of the court gag orders and the searches and the search warrants that they`ve maintained. The police are continuing to keep their tight cap on the real details of this case, trying to make sure they get it right.
GRACE: Back to Bob Moffitt with KFBK News talk 1530 and he`s there at little Sandra`s memorial as we speak. Bob Moffitt, tell me what`s happening there at the memorial.
MOFFITT: Well, we have 2,500 people inside the gymnasium, another 500 people inside the cafeteria. And then they have opened up the football field and run sound there so that as many as another 7,000 can come and pay their respects to Sandra as well. The community turning out in droves, as many as a seventh of the community could be here at this one spot to pay tribute to a little eight-year-old girl who lost her life much too soon.
GRACE: To Eleanor Dixon, reports to surface last night from a local station. I believe it was KVOR, that parents contacted police claiming this woman, the Sunday school teacher, was involved in child porn. That would at least give a motive.
DIXON: Yes, Nancy. It exactly would. It`s unfortunate police didn`t search that computer and search for the porn.
GRACE: What about it, Bethany Marshall? Would that be a motive? Without that, I don`t understand this.
MARSHALL: When women kill, sex predators kill children and molest them, usually the primary motive is homicide. And then the second motivation is the sex crimes. So maybe she was homicidal first and then the sex act followed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Every night, we stop to remember an American hero who makes the ultimate sacrifice for our country.
Recently we honored Army Sergeant William Patrick Rudd, just 27, Kentucky. His parents, Bill and Pamela, wrote us to thank our fallen and fellow soldiers overseas.
Now a small town tribute from Hopkins County to Army Sergeant William Patrick Rudd.
(MUSIC: TAPS)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Private Charles Barnett, just 19, Bel-Air, Maryland, killed Iraq. From a long history of military vets, had a smile that lights up a room, loved video games, sketching portraits, fantasy comic book characters, dreamed of being a SWAT officer. He leaves behind parents Yvonne and Kenneth, one sister, three brothers, including a brother in the Air Force. Charles Barnett, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
