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Nancy Grace
Cindy Anthony Says She Contemplated Suicide
Aired April 22, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. First grandparents George and Cindy refuse to answer questions under oath, storm out of the room, yelling, cursing out the lawyers. It`s all on video. Then they announce they`ll open up to millions on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." But in their effort to saturate the jury pool with their version of events, the Anthonys appear just hours ago on CBS, and Oprah Winfrey says, Let`s call the whole thing off.
Tonight, torpedo to the defense. A private voice-mail message emerges to police from grandmother Cindy implicating daughter Casey, admitting tot mom had help in the disappearance of little Caylee. Tonight, we have that private audiotape.
We know grandfather George Anthony attempted suicide, but now grandmother Cindy says she also planned to take her own life, actually writing multiple suicide notes for family to find after her death. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony insist tot mom will never take a plea deal because she`s innocent and that tot mom didn`t report Caylee missing because the whole family`s lives were in danger. In danger? From whom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I wrote suicide notes back in end of July and August. You get to a point when you miss someone so much that you think life`s not worth living.
MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ, "THE EARLY SHOW": Cindy, your first instinct when you called 911 was to say, quote, "It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car." When you take that plus all the evidence that prosecutors say they`ve gathered, it doesn`t bode well for Casey.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: The only time I really confronted Casey was when I saw her again on July 15th. I mean, I just wanted to know where she`s been, and what she told me is what she told Cindy, you know, also.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was never a red flag until July 15th.
I`ve never had a reason not to trust Casey with Caylee. You know, Casey made Caylee her priority. And it was very evident, anybody that ever saw Casey and Caylee together, that Caylee was number one for Casey. So I never had a reason. I mean, Casey was Caylee`s -- I mean, Casey was Caylee`s mom. Caylee belonged to her. I`m just a grandmother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news, Tracy, California. The search for 8-year-old Sandra Cantu comes to an end, her body folded into a suitcase in a nearby pond. Prime suspect 28-year-old female Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby charged with sex assault and murder. Huckaby swears she`s innocent, then changes her story, claiming accident. But was the alleged rape an accident, too?
Now is suspect Melissa Huckaby linked to the disappearance of another 7-year-old girl in the same neighborhood? We learn Huckaby has apparently made false claims she herself was a rape victim. And tonight, it just never ends, Huckaby the prime suspect in not one but two arsons, setting an apartment building on fire twice.
This while the Sunday school teacher backs off demands the 8-year-old girl`s body be exhumed -- that`s right, pulled out of the mausoleum. The Sunday school teacher still under suicide watch after swallowing X-acto knife blades. Well, that clearly didn`t work. This Sunday school teacher better start praying!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Melissa Huckaby, accused of killing and raping little Sandra Cantu and putting her cute little body in a suitcase and dropping her in the bottom of a pond...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has she abused others?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a report in the police blotter from January 17th that a 7-year-old girl was taken from the Orchard Estates mobile home park for several hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the police report, the girl returned home in a car matching Huckaby`s purple Kia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family, they thought the girl seemed groggy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later, the girl was taken to the hospital, where she tested positive for benzodiazepine, a muscle relaxer type drug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could it have been a red flag?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... probable cause developed (ph) to arrest anyone at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New allegations surrounding the former Sunday school teacher...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: La Palma police tell KCRA that Huckaby was, in fact, a suspect in two fires that took place in a home where Huckaby was renting a room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both fires were arson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they`re just starting to peel back the onion that is Melissa Huckaby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First grandparents George and Cindy refuse to answer questions under oath. They storm out of the room yelling, cursing out the lawyers. But in their effort to saturate the jury pool with their version of events, the Anthonys appear just hours ago on CBS. "The Oprah Winfrey Show" says, Let`s call the whole thing off.
We learn a private voice-mail message emerges to police from grandmother Cindy, implicating daughter Casey in the disappearance of Caylee. We know grandfather George attempted suicide, but now grandmother Cindy says she also planned to take her own life. They both insist tot mom will never take a plea deal. Why? They say she`s innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t think Casey would take a plea deal. You know, Casey`s not going to admit to something that she hasn`t done.
GEORGE ANTHONY: We`re just going to have to wait and see what plays out. I don`t believe that`s going to happen with her.
RODRIGUEZ: Would you encourage her to do that?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
GEORGE ANTHONY: No.
CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely not.
RODRIGUEZ: Are you satisfied with the answers she gave you?
CINDY ANTHONY: You know, I`d love to know -- I`d love to know more.
RODRIGUEZ: Like what?
CINDY ANTHONY: I want to know what happened.
RODRIGUEZ: Have you had a chance to ask Casey why she didn`t report Caylee missing?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. She was afraid. I mean, that`s the answer. She was afraid.
RODRIGUEZ: What was she afraid of?
CINDY ANTHONY: She -- you know, I can`t answer that right now.
RODRIGUEZ: But she told you she feared for what, her life, Caylee`s life, both?
CINDY ANTHONY: She feared for all of our lives.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Now that my granddaughter`s no longer here, it`s hard.
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
RODRIGUEZ: You think about her every single day.
CINDY ANTHONY: Every single day.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Every single day. Every single day.
I don`t think it`s possible for my daughter to hurt anyone.
CINDY ANTHONY: We stand behind her. We know what kind of mother she was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter joining us from Orlando. Everyone, you just saw grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on CBS`s "The Early Show." Mark Williams, what did we learn?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, we learned a couple of things, Nancy. First off, the biggest bombshell of all that none of us knew until this morning, the biggest bombshell, Cindy Anthony finally revealing that she had contemplated taking her own life, committing suicide. But she then revealed that daughter Casey, when she first came home after Leonard Padilla bonded her out of jail, that they sat and they prayed together, and then Casey literally talked her out of it. But by the same token, there were a lot of suicide notes left behind. Also...
GRACE: Hold on. Mark Williams, before you go to the next point.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GRACE: The Anthonys appearing just hours ago on the CBS morning show. Let`s take a listen to grandmother Cindy describing her own contemplation of suicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: George and I are living the same nightmare. But I don`t know and I can`t judge George for certain things that he`s done. You know, I understand certain things. I understand his suicide attempt. A lot of people don`t know I was there, too. I wrote suicide notes back in the end of July and August. No one knows that.
RODRIGUEZ: You did?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I did, because I couldn`t bear not having Caylee around and not knowing what happened to her. And I wanted to -- you know, I just didn`t -- you know, you get to a point when you miss someone so much that you think life`s not worth living.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s a preview, Grandparents George and Cindy talking with Maggie Rodriguez on tomorrow`s CBS "The Early Show." They taped quite a bit. They had part of it this morning, and you`ll hear the rest tomorrow morning on CBS`s morning show.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. There were a lot of questions they refused to answer. It`s almost by cue. Maggie Rodriguez would ask a question, and then you could physically -- you could observe them physically pull back and look at their lawyer. They knew not to answer the questions. Explain, Ellie Jostad.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. One of the key questions they were asked -- Cindy was asked about that 911 call, where she said, "It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car." Now, as soon as she asked that question, Cindy looked at her attorney. Brad Conway jumped in and said, We can`t discuss that. It`s all going to come out at trial.
And they also didn`t want to talk about what questions Casey Anthony wouldn`t answer. Cindy finally said, Well, I do want to know more. I do want to know more. I want know what happened, is how she responded.
GRACE: Well, correct me if I`m wrong, Leonard Padilla, but didn`t they have many, many days after tot mom bonded out on all those theft charges, before she was arrested for murder, where they could have asked her anything they wanted to?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the situation was such that George one time went in there and very angrily asked her -- he wanted to know what happened to his granddaughter. And Casey`s response to it was, Start acting like a father and not a damn cop for once in your life. And that was the hardest-put question that George put that day. And Cindy and his friend, Jim from up north, actually hauled him physically out of the room. There was another time...
GRACE: But they had the opportunity to ask these questions. They asked the questions. They didn`t get answers. We`re taking your calls live. But before I go to Debra in New Jersey, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODRIGUEZ: Cindy, your first instinct when you called 911 was to say, quote, "It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car." When you take that, plus all the evidence that prosecutors say they`ve gathered, it doesn`t bode well for Casey.
BRAD CONWAY, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: You know, Maggie, those are issues that are going to come up at trial. And they`re anxiously awaiting that. And there`s been so much pre-trial publicity that`s going to affect the ultimate outcome and her ability to get a fair trial. So the questions that have to do with the statements that they gave, they want to wait and they want to tell the truth in front of a jury and let a jury decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t understand that. They`re out telling their story, but certain select pieces of evidence they don`t want to talk about. That`s grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on "The Early Show," CBS. There will be more of that tomorrow morning.
To Debra in New Jersey. Hi, Debra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Congratulations. You`re a great mom, and you`re a miracle worker.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question on Casey. How long is she going to be allowed to be in protective custody, since that`s so unusual for anybody else?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta and famed defense attorney John Burris, San Francisco. Renee, why is she still in protective custody?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Because, Nancy, the sheriff is responsible for her safety, and he does not feel comfortable with her in general population. That`s what I would imagine.
GRACE: Burris, I can only think of two occasions where a defendant was actually killed. One was a serial killer out of Wisconsin and the other was a priest that molested a ton of little boys, and he met one of them grown up behind bars. What`s the likelihood she`d really meet foul play?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know what the likelihood is, but I think that the sheriff is being wise to make sure it does not happen. These are -- she has serious allegations. People do not like people who kill kids and abuse children. So I can see...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, you`re right, John Burris and Renee Rockwell, because this time, it`s not her against a 2-year-old child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODRIGUEZ: I know that at one point, you confronted Casey. What did you say to her?
GEORGE ANTHONY: The only time I really confronted Casey was when I saw her again on July 15th. I mean, I just wanted to know where she`s been, and what she told me is what she told Cindy, you know, also.
RODRIGUEZ: That she was afraid?
GEORGE ANTHONY: She was afraid.
RODRIGUEZ: And at that point, she said she believed that Caylee was still alive?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.
RODRIGUEZ: And you, Cindy -- you had never gone more than two days without seeing Caylee, and yet you didn`t report her missing until 30 days later. Why is that?
CINDY ANTHONY: Because she was with her mom. And I believed that -- you know, she was with her mom. And I`ve never had a reason not to trust Casey with Caylee. You know, Casey made Caylee her priority. And it was very evident, anybody that ever saw Casey and Caylee together, that Caylee was number one for Casey. There was never a red flag until July 15th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad, if she`s going to walk out, we`re going to move to find her in contempt of court. We`re going to be seeking sanctions, attorneys` fees.
CINDY ANTHONY: Ask me the last question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not walking out, Mr. Morgan. Ask the last question.
CINDY ANTHONY: Ask the last question. I`m sitting in the seat.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to mike up.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t need to mike anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am...
CINDY ANTHONY: I never agreed to have a mike on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Ma`am...
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not miking up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then...
CINDY ANTHONY: Someone touches me, I`m going to file harassment charges, if someone`s touching me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad...
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not miking up. I`ll talk loud enough that you can...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad -- Brad...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We -- just -- can we take a break?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You first saw grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on CBS`s "Early Show" this morning. They`re going to have more of that tomorrow morning. Then you saw them in quite the dichotomy, a completely different persona emerging when they were under oath answering hardball questions.
Out to Keith Mitnik, the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez, who was part of that deposition. I guess you`re pretty surprised by their demeanor on the morning show today.
KEITH MITNIK, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ (via telephone): It`s certainly different. I`m not surprised. I mean, it`s fairly obvious their purpose is to shed a light that makes her daughter look good and favorable or trying to protect her and save her, and they`re on a tour to indicate she`s too nice a person to ever have done it. So I would expect them to come off acting very gracious and...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!
MITNIK: That`s not the people we met in the deposition.
GRACE: Keith Mitnik, hold on. Who`s too nice? Who did you say was too nice to do what?
MITNIK: Their comments about, Casey couldn`t do this, she`s to good of a mother. It`s pretty clear they`re out trying to protect her daughter and say, Look, she`s really nice and we`re nice, and trying to get a good impression, but stay out of any fact-specific questions and punting those to the lawyer.
GRACE: To Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV, joining us out of Orlando. Kathi, what do you make of the grandmother`s claims that she also contemplated suicide?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: I know she has talked in the past about being very depressed over all of this, as well. She said that she actually wrote a couple of suicide letters. You know, back then in July and August, she was claiming that Caylee was alive and that she was coming back and that she was with a baby-sitter. So it seems that -- looking back on those times now, it seems a little odd that she was feeling that depressed back then.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Connie, Ohio. Hi, Connie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Love your show!
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know if anybody thinks that Casey would really take the stand in her own defense because for some reason, I don`t think she will.
GRACE: Connie, are you a lawyer by chance?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not! But I`ve been watching this since the beginning.
GRACE: What are you? What do you do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m retired.
GRACE: Well, I tell you what, I`d like to have you on my jury. Let`s go to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney out of Atlanta, John Burris out of San Francisco. No way, Burris.
BURRIS: No way. I agree.
GRACE: Is she taking the stand?
BURRIS: No way. No way.
GRACE: I mean, here we are on the outside, looking in. I haven`t even gotten into all the police files, and I could slice her up like a turkey. Hello! She`s not taking the stand. Well, I don`t know what Baez will do. Do you think Baez might, in his inexperience, put her on the stand?
BURRIS: No, there`s too many statements that she`s given in the past. There`s nothing about her that will cause her to be believable. And so the best thing she could do is sit in that courtroom and let the defense work hard to try to create reasonable doubt.
GRACE: But on the other hand...
BURRIS: That`s the job of the defense attorney.
GRACE: Burris, you`re using your mind, all right? You`re using your trial strategy. On the other hand, Ms. Rockwell, what if she insists on taking the stand? What can Baez do about it?
ROCKWELL: And there`s nothing you can do. But before she does, the judge will tell her that anything that she says...
BURRIS: Right.
ROCKWELL: ... is going to be used against her. And Nancy, somebody is going to be replaying and replaying and replaying all of those tapes about...
BURRIS: She`s not going to do it.
ROCKWELL: ... all those fantastic stories that...
GRACE: Got it.
ROCKWELL: ... she`s told but...
GRACE: OK, so I`m hearing an N-O.
Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. What do you make of the grandparents` appearance on the CBS`s morning show? It was quite a different scenario than what we saw with them under oath. They pick and choose. They have their cake and they eat it, too, by not answering the tough questions.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, they certainly weren`t offered any tough questions on the morning show. But I think we all have to step back a little bit and look at the very difficult situation these people are in. They have made the decision to throw all of their chips into a desperate attempt to demonstrate that Casey couldn`t do this, at the expense of finding justice for Caylee. And I think it`s a horrible strategy that is going to continue to backfire on them until after this case is somehow resolved.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: We love our daughter. We stand behind her. We know what kind of mother she was.
RODRIGUEZ: Is this because you love your daughter that you need to believe this or because you believe unflinchingly that it`s not possible that she did this?
GEORGE ANTHONY: I don`t think it`s possible for my daughter to hurt anyone, and she wouldn`t definitely hurt her own child. I mean, my gosh, I`ve seen the love every single day that she had for her and how she took care of her, being with us. So I mean, she wouldn`t hurt her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I think you guys need to seriously start looking at some of the things that this family is bringing to you with other things. Casey had to have had help, no matter what you think the scenario might be, so there are people that know information.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: A private message left from grandmother Cindy Anthony to police implicating tot mom, Casey Anthony.
Out to you, Ellie Jostad. Clearly, she says tot mom had to have had help.
JOSTAD: Right. She does say that. This is the voice-mail she left for Detective John Allen on July 23rd, about a week after Caylee was reported missing. She`s complaining, essentially, to the detectives that they`re not following up on some tips the family has given them. And then she says Casey had to have had help, no matter what you think the scenario is, so there are other people that have info.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you have prepared to get ready today because this was an important day for you.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said that one of the things you did in the preparation was you examined the signature from C. Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass Apartments.
C. ANTHONY: Right. From the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the discovery. And you said you`re here to clear this Zenaida Gonzalez`s name.
C. ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true, ma`am, that the date that you examined that signature was on June 17th?
C. ANTHONY: No. The date that I examined that signature.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the date that she was there.
C. ANTHONY: . was two days ago. You just asked me the other question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they finally found Caylee dead a quarter mile from your house, can you tell me what went through your mind, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Sorrow. I didn`t want to believe it. I still have a hard time coping with that. I really do. That my granddaughter`s no longer here. It`s hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You think about her every single day?
C. ANTHONY: Every single day.
G. ANTHONY: Every single day. Every single day. I mean, we can`t walk around our home without thinking of her. Waking up in the morning and walking out and seeing a photo of her, hearing her little voice.
C. ANTHONY: Driving in the car, listening to a song, you know? There are so many things. You know, just walking outside, looking at the stars at night. I mean, everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: That`s grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on the CBS "Early Show" this morning. They`ll have more of the interview tomorrow morning. This after they storm out of answering questions under oath, cursing out the lawyers, and leaving a very different demeanor.
This morning on "The Early Show" right then when we hear Cindy Anthony describing when she misses little Caylee so deeply, it`s very touching to many of us who have been crime victims and lost the people we love.
Marc Klaas, you have been in that situation after the loss of your daughter, Polly. I know they`re planning to speak at a victims` conference, a conference I have spoken at after your invitation a couple of years ago.
How are the crime victims taking it, with the general perception that while the Anthonys are crime victims, they`ve lost their granddaughter in a gruesome manner, but many people perceive that they are covering up for a killer.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, it`s an incredibly difficult position, and it`s one that raises, I think, very important questions for the crime victim community.
This conference, the Melanie Rieger Conference, was never conceived as a place to put up people that were popular -- that were popular in pop culture. I mean, this is really about taking crime victims, whatever situation they`re in, and giving them the tools to be able to understand their situation, to be able to have a deeper ability to communicate, to be able to deal with the whole.
GRACE: You know, Marc.
KLAAS: . the whole array of issues that we all have to deal with as crime victims.
GRACE: It`s bringing up so many issues, Marc, because I remember when I spoke there and there were hundreds of people. I don`t even know how many.
KLAAS: Sure.
GRACE: But so many of them were still crying. This could be years after a loved one`s murder. I mean, the room was channeling all sorts of crime victims` feelings. And I`m just wondering how this is going to play.
And it also brings to the issue, to the forefront, Marc Klaas, when you went through this, when your daughter was murdered, when cops came to your door, you said, I want the truth. Polygraph me. Take my blood. Take my hair. Suspect me. I don`t care. But I want the truth.
Whether the courthouse falls down around me, I want the truth. That is not what the Anthonys are saying today.
KLAAS: Yes. Very interesting. A couple of things. First of all, I believe that she did understand the truth. I believe there was a seminal moment in this whole situation.
The moment that she made that 911 call and she understood that there may have been a dead body in that car and that that dead body may have been her little granddaughter and that her daughter may have been responsible for it.
And she`s backtracked ever since that point to the point where she says things that aren`t credible such as, "I contemplated suicide during July and August," when many of us still thought that she still could be alive.
I can understand how somebody could feel like that. I never seriously contemplated suicide myself. But certainly after Polly was found dead I didn`t want to live for quite some period of time.
Just very briefly, I think people should not judge the Rieger conference based on the fact that the Anthonys may or may not appear at it, because as I said, this is about some very, very serious issues and some wonderful people that I have met over the years that are doing magnificent work.
GRACE: They certainly were. That room was -- I don`t know how many people were there. It was a huge number of people.
KLAAS: Yes.
GRACE: And everybody was there to advance the rights of crime victims and their families.
We are taking your calls live. Donna in Canada, hi Donna.
DONNA, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
DONNA: Just a quick question. Normally in cases like this you see extended family members, cousins, some sort of relatives, grandparents, go to the media, and they stick up for the person and say there`s no way they could have done it.
I haven`t seen anybody other than the parents and Lee stick up for Casey. Where are all these.
GRACE: Well, Donna in Canada, you`re absolutely correct. In fact, most of the other relatives we have heard from are filing in line behind the prosecution.
Ellie Jostad?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Exactly. Casey`s grandmother, Shirley Plesea, as well as her uncle, Rick Plesea, both told police that they believe the Anthony family is in denial, that Casey knows something.
GRACE: I want to go to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective and hostage negotiator, joining us out of Atlanta.
Vince, that voice mail message, that private voicemail message that we managed to get a copy of where the grandmother calls police and says look, my daughter, tot mom, had to have help. No matter what scenario you`re proceeding under, she had to have help to do this. I find that incredibly damning.
VINCE VELASQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE AND HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Absolutely. You know, you can`t take back what you say. She said that. She left it in the form of a voicemail. In my opinion is at the time she left that message she thought her daughter was responsible for this, had information or suspected her daughter and was trying to relay that to the police.
She can`t take that back. Deposition under oath, whatever. That`s memorialized electronically, and it`s always going to be there.
GRACE: Yes, you`ve got to go through a couple of hoops at trial to get it into evidence to establish what we call in the law a foundation as to where that voicemail came from. But that will come into evidence. We`ve seen the Anthonys take the stand for her cross-examination.
I want to talk about the fact that both grandparents this morning on the "Early Show," CBS, say there will be no plea deal. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will this, do you think, George, change anything in Casey`s defense? Will she consider now accepting a plea deal to spare her life?
G. ANTHONY: Well, you know, again, this trial is only about probably a year away. I don`t really believe that her defensive team is going to do anything to jeopardize anything in the future for her. So the answer to that question, that`s -- we`re just going to have to wait and see what plays out. I don`t believe that`s going to happen with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you encourage her to do that?
C. ANTHONY: No.
G. ANTHONY: No.
C. ANTHONY: Absolutely not. I don`t think Casey will take a plea deal. You know, Casey`s not going to admit for something that she hasn`t done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on CBS`s "The Early Show" this morning. They`ll have more of it tomorrow morning.
To psychologist and author of many books, including "Love Prescription," Dr. Jeff Gardere, joining us out of New York.
Dr. Jeff, looking at them and their body language, I was watching that very carefully this morning, what do you make of it?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": Well, they look to me that they are giving a lot of verbiage that they believe in their daughter. But what the body language says is that they`re very tentative, very anxious.
They can`t lie with the body behavior because it`s much more unconscious. So we are seeing a disparity between what they believe is the truth and what the truth happens to be.
GRACE: To Dr. Keri Peterson of internal medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital.
Dr. Peterson, bottom line, is there anything in tot mom`s car trunk, and police took multiple photos of everything in that trunk, that would mimic the smell of human decomposition?
DR. KERI PETERSON, INTERNAL MEDICINE, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: Of human decomposition?
GRACE: Yes.
PETERSON: Yes, it is possible. I mean human decomposition has a very characteristic putrid odor from the decomposing tissue and also from the gases that are released.
GRACE: We`ll be back with Dr. Keri Peterson from Lenox Hill Hospital, taking your calls. But as we go to break, happy birthday to a friend of the show, Robin Johns Grant. She single-handedly dragged me through Algebra 2 on her back in high school.
Robin, happy birthday.
And happy birthday to California friend of the show, Barbara Tracy.
And Barbara, please, I hope your knee feels better.
Our sympathy tonight to friends of the show, the family of Phyllis Murphy. After a brave fight for years with cancer. A loving mother. She always had a smile on her face. She fought until the very end. And I know tonight they`re happy to have her in heaven.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: Why don`t you tell the camera and all the viewers out there where Fernandez came from? It`s not on her DMV record. That`s part of our homework, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, your daughter.
C. ANTHONY: What`s your date of birth?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, please. Brad, for god`s sake.
C. ANTHONY: 10-1-1970?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is outrageous.
C. ANTHONY: It`s not outrageous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy, do you find her behavior odd?
C. ANTHONY: You know I don`t understand what happened. I don`t know what happened. And again, you know, I think we`ll probably learn a lot more, you know, as time goes on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But have you had a chance to ask Casey why she didn`t report Caylee missing?
C. ANTHONY: Yes. She was afraid. I mean, that`s the answer. She was afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was she afraid of?
C. ANTHONY: She -- you know, I can`t answer that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But she told you she feared -- for what, her life, Caylee`s life? Both?
C. ANTHONY: She feared for all of our lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s grandparents George and Cindy Anthony on the CBS "Early Show." They`ll be back on tomorrow morning. Afraid for the family`s lives? By whom, Mark Williams? Afraid of what?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: This is something, a line that George Anthony put out to the media last -- late July, early August. He had a gaggle there with reporters in front of his house. And that was the first thing that came out of his mouth, was the fact that he had investigators and that Casey was protecting the entire family.
GRACE: Mark Williams, joining us from Orlando.
Kathi Belich, WFTV, protecting the family from who?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: You know, Cindy tried to ask Casey this in jail. She kept asking Casey, are you protecting us from someone? And Casey was saying the same thing that Cindy said this morning, I can`t tell you that, I just can`t talk about that right now.
We never did hear who that was. And in fact, in August George told us that he had someone following the kidnappers, and no one has ever heard anything more about that.
GRACE: Leonard Padilla, when you were in the home, did they act afraid for their lives?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL SUIT: Oh, absolutely not. They prep each other with questions. When she was asking Casey that when Casey was in custody, she was prepping her. When George was making the statement, he was prepping the world.
It`s a family that`s into drama and they never want to tell the truth, and that`s why she`ll never take a plea, because they don`t want to tell the truth. She don`t (sic) want to tell the people she killed her daughter because her mother damn nearly killed her the night before by choking on her.
And Cindy is willing to take instructions from Casey for the rest of her life because she don`t (sic) want Casey to disclose that to the world either. They`re just full of lies no matter what they say.
GRACE: The Anthonys say that they had no red flags anything was wrong until July. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that at one point you confronted Casey. What did you say to her?
G. ANTHONY: The only time I really confronted Casey was when I saw her again on July 15th. I mean, I just wanted to know where she`s been and what she told me is what she told Cindy, you know, also.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That she was afraid?
G. ANTHONY: She`s afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And at that point she said she believed that Caylee was still alive?
G. ANTHONY: Mm-hmm. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you, Cindy, you have never gone more than two days without seeing Caylee, and yet you didn`t report her missing until 30 days later. Why is that?
C. ANTHONY: Because she was with her mom. And I believe that, you know, she was with her mom. And I`ve never had a reason not to trust Casey with Caylee. You know, Casey made Caylee her priority. And it was very evident. Anybody that ever saw Casey and Caylee together, that Caylee was number one for Casey. There was never a red flag until July 15th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Grandparents George and Cindy on the CBS "Early Show." There`ll be more of that tomorrow morning.
Ellie Jostad no, red flag?
JOSTAD: Well, on July 3rd Cindy Anthony posted on MySpace, "My Caylee is missing." and continued to go on about how her daughter had betrayed her. George had also had a previous confrontation with her on June 20th over the gas can.
GRACE: OK. I want to update you on a case out of Tracy, California. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were called out at 5:17 on the afternoon of January 17th. A woman reports her 7-year-old daughter is missing, saying she hasn`t seen her for nearly four hours. Police are on scene within eight minutes.
At 5:31 police report that the girl is with a woman named Melissa Huckaby at a nearby park. By 5:39 the girl is back home at the mobile home park. At 5:44 police leave the park without making any arrests.
Later that very same night the girl was taken from the mobile home park to a nearby hospital, where doctors told police she had tested positive for a muscle relaxer. Immediately raising suspicions, did Melissa Huckaby drug the girl?
Sources say police couldn`t prove it because five hours had passed from the time she was dropped off to the time she was taken to the hospital. Allowing enough time for the girl to have gotten the pills from someone other than Huckaby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Sebastian Kunz with KNEW Radio, joining us out of San Francisco.
Mr. Kunz, we`ve got her charged with murder and a rape with a foreign object of an 8-year-old little girl, folded into a suitcase. Suspected of taking a 7-year-old who shows up alive, thank God in heaven, with something like Xanax coursing through her blood.
Then we have her stealing from a local Wal-Mart, I believe it was, taking a guilty plea. Now is it true she`s linked to not one but two arsons on the same apartment building?
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: It`s true, Nancy. We understand this happened in Southern California in July of 2007. She was never arrested in this case, but she was a person of interest.
Another resident in the house that they were all living in reportedly was arrested and later released in the case. And it was believed that, in fact, Melissa Huckaby may have sort of tried to implicate this other resident in these house fires, and the police never had enough information to take Melissa Huckaby into custody for the arson cases. But we`re starting to see a picture being painted here.
GRACE: To Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author of "Love Prescription."
Dr. Gardere, the psyche of an arsonist is different in my experience from any other criminal. Explain.
GARDERE: Well, these are people who have an extreme amount of rage, and when they set fires they seem to sit back and watch how objects or homes or whatever are being destroyed and they get a lot of excitement out of it because this is their way of striking back at a society that they feel has taken advantage of them.
And we see some of these people do have issues with being depressed and also being molested early in life.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Put up, Gardere.
GARDERE: Yes.
GRACE: I want to see Gardere`s face. You`re tuning up tonight that she`s the depressed.
Gardere, everybody is depressed. Everybody has been depressed at some point or another. You don`t set an apartment building on fire, take a little girl and give it Xanax at the park. The little girl apparently said -- out to Eric Firpo with "Tracy Press" -- the little girl apparently says that she gave her water that tasted like medicine, Eric?
ERIC FIRPO, REPORTER, TRACY PRESS, COVERING STORY: Yes, that`s what the mother told us today, that her daughter told her that Melissa got some water from Wendy`s and when she tasted it, she said it tasted like medicine.
GRACE: You just saw little Sandy Cantu, skipping with happiness, literally skipping the hours before her murder. It never ends with the suspect and the charges being lodged against her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s very minor damage, one, and the second one, again, minor damage to moderate damage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you determine how that fire started?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both fires were arson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Renee Rockwell and John Burris.
First to you, Renee. She`s just in some trouble.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s into trouble. But Nancy, I would not be worried about the arson charges. She`s going to have trouble with that similar transaction evidence that the 7-year-old that was drugged.
GRACE: You know, Burris, you know you`re in a heap of trouble when you`re not worried about two felony arsons.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I wouldn`t worry about those cases at all. I think it is right that -- you know, they got to fight to keep this second case out and the reason why, unless -- if they have issues of a similar kind of drug in the young girl who died.
GRACE: You`re right.
BURRIS: If they have that, then that`s going to come in, but if they don`t have it, it may not come in.
GRACE: Well, I disagree. I think it will come in.
BURRIS: And so that`s what the defense is going to fight about.
GRACE: To Julie in Kansas.
BURRIS: I`m not convinced that it will.
GRACE: To Julie in Kansas, hi, dear.
JULIE, CALLER FROM KANSAS: Hi. I just have a question as far as where is Miss Huckaby`s daughter at this point. And.
GRACE: OK.
JULIE: . has the department of DFAC every been out to them?
GRACE: To Sebastian Kunz with KNEW Radio, I know that they have interviewed the little girl, I believe she`s 5, but where is she now?
KUNZ: At an undisclosed location, Nancy, but her father, the ex- husband of Melissa Huckaby, is saying that she`s being kept in a safe, secure location.
GRACE: To Vince Velasquez, certainly the medical examiner took the child`s blood to determine if there were any types of drugs in it?
VELASQUEZ: Absolutely. And that`s going to be interesting to find out, as the other attorney mentioned, if there is any similarity to the 7- year-old, muscle relaxers or anything like that.
GRACE: Isn`t that SOP, Keri Peterson? Dr. Peterson? You always take the blood?
PETERSON: Actually, for Benzodiazepines, urine is used most commonly. But -- and somewhat in a corpse, you`re obviously going to need to take the blood because there`s most likely no urine available. But of note, Benzodiazepines actually not infrequently given by a sexual assailant to a victim because it really renders them unable to resist the attack.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Major Brian Mescall, 33, Hopkinton, Massachusetts on a third tour. Had a big heart. He leaves behind a wonderful family. They are mourning him now, grieving parents, John and Peggy, widow, Chi-un, and 6-year-old son Nathan.
Brian Mescall, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night to Georgia friend of the show, Aliyssa Daniels (ph).
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
