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American Morning
Taliban Exiting Pakistan's Burner District; Photos Showing Detainee Abuses to be Released by Pentagon; Ford Posts Billion Dollar Loss; FAA Releasing Disturbing Numbers on Bird Strikes; Armored Car Outfitters See No Decline in Business; Sen. John McCain: "It's Time For Closure"
Aired April 24, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: It's coming up on the top of the hour now. Thanks very much for joining us on this Friday, the 24th of April, John Roberts together with Kiran Chetry.
Welcome.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome. And here's what on our agenda. These are the big stories we're going to be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
First, new video of the Taliban loading up trucks and claiming to be leaving Pakistan's Buner District. The area has been under siege for days and spans just 60 miles from the nation's capital.
Attorney General Eric Holder not ruling out the prosecution of Bush White House officials connected to CIA's harsh interrogation tactics. Holder was grilled by a House subcommittee over the White House's release of secret terror interrogation documents.
And a four-mile wild fire, South Carolina's worst in 30 years. Firefighters say they now have it 40 percent contained. They do expect it to intensify, though, today. At least 70 homes have been destroyed, hundreds damaged. Still, though, no injuries reported.
CHETRY: And a four-mile wildfire, South Carolina's worst in 30 years. Firefighters say they now have it 40 percent contained. They do expect it to intensify though today. At least 70 homes have been destroyed, hundreds damaged. Still, though, no injuries reported.
And we begin the hour with some potentially damaging news for the Department of Defense. The Pentagon is set to release what's being called, "a substantial number of photographs showing detainee abuse by U.S. personnel at prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan."
That's coming from the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU filed suit for the pictures to be released and says that they'll come out by May 28th.
Barbara Starr is tracking things from the Pentagon for us this morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran. Well, the ACLU and the Pentagon had fought for years in court over all of this. The Pentagon now giving up, telling the federal judge they will comply and that the Pentagon will release 44 photographs showing the depiction of prisoners being held by the U.S. military in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Of course, we all remember the notorious photos from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. We expect to see more Abu Ghraib photos as part of this release of 44 pictures. But what's really interesting, Kiran, for the first time, we will see pictures depicting prisoners being held by the U.S. military in Afghanistan. That has not been seen before.
Now in releasing this information, the ACLU said in a statement, "The disclosure of these photographs serves as a further reminder that the abuse of prisoners in U.S.- administered detention centers was systemic."
That is really the issue the ACLU has been pursuing. The Bush administration had fought all of this saying that the release of the photos would further enflame the Arab world, and that they had an obligation to protect the identity of the detainees they had in custody.
The Obama administration now saying they won't fight it any longer. They will release the photographs. We will see them all no later than May 28th -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Barbara Starr for us this morning, thanks.
ROBERTS: To another developing story out of Washington. Attorney General Eric Holder getting grilled on the Hill over the CIA's harsh interrogation program and the memos about it.
Jim Acosta breaking it all down for us this morning from Washington -- Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, pressure is building for President Obama to investigate the Bush administration for authorizing interrogation methods that even some Republicans say amount to torture.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is my responsibility as the attorney general to enforce the law.
ACOSTA (voice-over): For the Obama administration, it's the question that won't go away. And Attorney General Eric Holder is refusing to rule out the possible prosecution of high-level members of the Bush administration who authorized harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists.
HOLDER: If I see evidence of wrongdoing, I will pursue it to the full extent of the law and I will do that in an appropriate way.
ACOSTA: Some Democrats are turning up the heat on the White House to name a special prosecutor who could bring indictments.
JONATHAN TURLEY, PROFESSOR, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW: Attorney General Holder needs to appoint a special prosecutor.
ACOSTA: Law professor Jonathan Turley says the president has no choice.
TURLEY: You have insurmountable evidence that we ran a torture program. President Obama has the constitutional authority to pardon President Bush and Vice President Cheney and these other individuals. He does not have the authority to obstruct an investigation to a war crime.
ACOSTA: Democrats point to this Senate intelligence report released this week. It states then-Attorney General John Ashcroft and then-National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice were briefed by CIA officials in 2002 that the agency was considering alternative interrogation methods, including waterboarding. An international Red Cross report found waterboarding was used saying it induced a feeling of panic and the acute impression that the person was about to die. Former POW John McCain has called the method torture.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's in violation of the Geneva Convention. It's in violation of existing law.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This government does not torture people.
ACOSTA: Two years ago, President Bush stressed Congress knew about the program.
BUSH: The techniques that we used have been fully disclosed to appropriate members of the United States Congress.
ACOSTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she was only told waterboarding might be used.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: We were not - I repeat, we were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used.
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They did work. They kept us safe for seven years.
ACOSTA: Bush administration officials are firing back, including former Justice Department official John Yoo, who advised the former president the Geneva Convention banning torture does not apply to suspected terrorists.
JOHN YOO, FORMER JUSTICE DEPT OFFICIAL: This wasn't worth it? Well, we haven't had an attack in more than seven years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: President Obama has come out against one option, that is naming a 9/11-style independent truth commission to investigate allegations of torture. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the president did not want the issue to become what he called a political back and forth -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Jim Acosta for us this morning in Washington. Jim, thanks so much.
The attorney general also faced a heated line of questioning from House Republicans demanding that he release more documents. Former Vice President Dick Cheney says there is more unclassified material which proves that the tactics did get results. Holder said he's not trying to hide anything, but he's not even sure that those documents exist.
And keep it right here because at 7:55 Eastern, we're going to be talking to former Vietnam war POW Senator John McCain, a man who has declared that waterboarding is torture. So why does he want the Obama administration to simply move on? We'll find out.
CHETRY: Turning now to the tense standoff in the nuclear nation of Pakistan. The Taliban vowing to pull back from the Buner region, just 60 miles from the capital of Islamabad. The area has been under siege for days as militants take control of government buildings and bridges. Pakistani television showed this video right there of some of the militants packing up and leaving the area.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, meantime, is laying out some of the blame for the crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We can point fingers at the Pakistanis, which is, you know, I did some yesterday, frankly. And it's merited because we are wondering why they don't just get out there and deal with these people. But the problems we face now to some extent we have to take responsibility for having contributed to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: CNN's Ivan Watson is live in the Pakistani capital this morning.
Ivan, give us a sense of what you're seeing there on the ground?
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kiran, I spoke with a Taliban spokesman a little bit more than an hour ago, and he did say that he had orders to pull Taliban fighters out of that contested Buner District about 60 miles to the northwest of the Pakistani capital.
Now this withdrawal, if it is in fact completed, and we really have to see whether it does take place, Kiran, it comes a day after Taliban fighters in that district ambushed a Pakistani police convoy and paramilitary convoy and they killed one Pakistani police officer and wounded one other Pakistani police officer.
In addition to that, we need to know -- we need to keep in mind that the Taliban have moved into other districts around the Swat Valley where a peace agreement was recently signed with the Pakistani government and that Pakistani local officials say that that is in violation of that peace agreement.
In addition to that, we have to keep in mind that the Taliban has challenged the legitimacy of the Pakistani government declaring the system of law here, the system of government and democracy in general un-Islamic.
CHETRY: Ivan Watson for us following the latest on the situation. Thank you.
ROBERTS: New this morning, Jay Leno is in the hospital. The "Tonight Show" host checked himself in with a mystery illness, but is said to be in good spirits. The Thursday and Friday tapings of the show were cancelled. Our Anderson Cooper, by the way, was scheduled to appear tonight.
A man with a machete is caught on surveillance camera in Evansville, Indiana. Police say he whipped out the weapon and attacked the store clerk. But in this case, the stool was mightier than the sword. The clerk used the stool as a shield to manage to fight off the attacker. The suspect faces charges of aggravated battery with a machete. Police say he told them he just snapped.
And new information just released on birds taking down airplanes. Why the FAA wanted to keep the details secret.
Eight minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Good morning. Wow. Start your Friday with a little Jimi Hendrix there.
CHETRY: That's right.
ROBERTS: Eleven minutes after the hour. Let's fast forward now to stories that will be making news later on today.
Your money and your future on the agenda when Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner meets with world financial leaders today. He's going to be meeting with finance ministers and bankers from the G-7. The secretary will hold a wrap-up press conference at 4:30 p.m. Eastern. We'll, of course, cover that here on CNN and "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
2:45 p.m. Eastern, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano will meet with leaders of the American Legion. It's an effort to ease tensions surrounding a document from the DHS that identified "disgruntled military veterans as likely targets for extremist groups." Napolitano apologized to veterans who were offended by the report right here on AMERICAN MORNING last week.
And at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, former Vice President Al Gore will be talking climate change on Capitol Hill. The House Energy Committee has been focusing on the environment all week examining energy legislation proposed by House Democrats in a new climate bill.
And that's what we are following for you this morning.
CHETRY: And just in now to CNN, Ford Motor posting a big quarterly loss this morning. Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business."
Not necessarily surprising but we were hoping for some better news out of the auto industry.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We knew that Ford was going to lose money. They've been losing. Last year's losses were just incredible. And again, the company lost $1.4 billion in the first quarter.
What we've been looking for here is how much money the company is burning through. And it's still burning through cash every day, but a little bit less than before. So it slowed that pace a little bit but it is still burning through cash here. And the company basically saying that it is already starting discussions with interested parties regarding the sale of Volvo. It's launched some new -- you know, some new cars out here that it thinks it's going to be good for some -- good for its future here.
But look, this is a company that has not had to take government money, government loans to stay in business. It is trying to cut cost, trying to do deals with its unions to cut its labor cost and the like. So that's the Ford situation, $1.4 billion loss. And, of course, as you know, time running out for Chrysler.
CHETRY: I know. They're under deadline and now facing bankruptcy this morning. What's the latest on that?
ROMANS: Chrysler, you know, has got six days to come up with a business plan. It's got $7 billion in debt. It's got to convince its bondholders to take, as we call it, a haircut, to take less money. It's got to do a deal with Fiat, according to the U.S. government. I wonder if you care for Fiat. But Fiat said yesterday, those executives said they're not ready to put any cash into this company.
It's a very difficult situation for Chrysler. And no surprise there, the company is preparing a bankruptcy filing. It only has a few more days here trying to work outside of bankruptcy, but time is running out for Chrysler.
CHETRY: What happens if you have a Chrysler? We'll talk about, you know, a car. We'll talk about that a little bit later. Christine, thanks.
ROBERTS: Sounds like a movie script. The US Airways plane goes down in the frozen Hudson River and everyone survives. Birds were blamed for taking the plane down. The pilot was called a hero for landing it without power, but the stories are not always so inspiring.
Now the FAA is opening up all of the files on bird strikes and not all the airlines are happy about it. Our Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve live in Washington for us this morning. What do we expect to learn from this report, Jeanne?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, it's the researchers who are going to sift through this data and try and discover ways to mitigate, to prevent bird strikes. But the debate here is over whether making the bird strike data public will actually make flying safer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): One of nature's great beauties is also a great danger.
CAPTAIN CHESLEY "SULLY" SULLENBERGER: This is Cactus 1539. Hit Birds. We lost thrust in both engines. We're turning back towards LaGuardia.
MESERVE: The downing of this US Airways jet in the Hudson was the most dramatic example of just how much damage relatively small birds can do to a big plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the bird hit here.
MESERVE: There are thousands of bird strikes every year and pilots and airports voluntarily report them to the Federal Aviation Administration. Up until now, the public has not been able to access all of the data. The FAA proposed keeping it that way, but the National Transportation Safety Board pushed back saying independent researchers needed all the information.
MARK ROSENKER, NTSB: The kinds of birds that were striking, the time of day that the aircraft is being struck, the season in which the bird is striking the aircraft -- all of this data comes into play so you can make good mitigation decisions.
MESERVE: Decisions on how to best keep birds away from airplanes. The FAA relented. The wildlife strike data will be posted this morning.
RAY LAHOOD, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Look, if safety is number one, and the way people learn about safety is through information.
MESERVE: But some argue it is the wrong decision. They say pilots in airports may be less likely to voluntarily report bird strikes if they think the data will be misinterpreted and hurt business. Less reporting would make the data less accurate and less useful. The NTSB's response, make reporting mandatory.
ROSENKER: If we are able to make this a requirement, then we're going to get the total picture and an accurate picture of how severe the problem really is.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MESERVE: The transportation secretary says that will be considered. One factor is likely to be weather after the database goes public later today. The number of bird strikes voluntarily reported takes a plunge -- John.
ROBERTS: It will be fascinating to take a look at that report. Jeanne Meserve for us this morning from Washington. Jeanne, thanks so much.
A couple of weeks ago, I flew in to Orlando. And I was driving away in my rental car. A seagull dead right in front of me. It hit my plane on the way down. It was intact, though. So I guess it was probably hit by the wing just about the engine. So it happens all the time.
CHETRY: It's a big problem. I know, and we just don't see it with the type of remarkable results that we saw before with the landing in the Hudson River.
ROBERTS: Yes, that's pretty rare.
CHETRY: Yes. Well, breaking this morning, also the Taliban says it's pulling out of Pakistan's Buner District. But what does it mean when terrorists can get to 60 miles from the capital of a nuclear nation?
Also, everyday people outfitting their cars with bulletproof glass, steel plates, smoke screens? Well, it's the price of living with rampant cartel violence at the Mexico border.
It's 17 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: It gets the blood going in the morning, doesn't it?
Detroit is suffering from auto sales that have dropped off coast- to-coast. But there is one kind of car that's selling fast with steel plates, bulletproof glass, and run flat tires. These armored autos aren't for the president or U.S. soldiers overseas. And as our Ed Lavandera reports, they're for regular people living with drug cartel violence along the border with Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): People who buy fully loaded cars from Trent Kimball don't take leisurely drives.
TRENT KIMBALL, TEXAS ARMORING CORPORATION: There's no gaps in the armor, and that's what we want. We want 100 percent protection.
LAVANDERA: They drive in the most dangerous cities in the world.
KIMBALL: The fear is real. There's people being killed and kidnapped all the time. LAVANDERA: Kimball runs the Texas Armoring Corporation. From this warehouse, he turns everyday cars into rolling cocoons. He offered us a glimpse of what it's like to be on the wrong end of this.
KIMBALL: You want to proof protect it from rifles like these, high-power fully (INAUDIBLE) high-powered assault rifles.
LAVANDERA: The view from behind bulletproof glass less than two inches thick.
(on camera): We're going to stick our camera back here.
KIMBALL: That's right.
LAVANDERA: It's a very expensive camera, you know.
KIMBALL: Yes.
LAVANDERA: It's a brand new HD camera.
KIMBALL: Yes. Nothing will happen to the camera.
LAVANDERA: Our cameraman is nervous. I'm not that nervous.
KIMBALL: All right.
(SHOTS FIRED)
LAVANDERA: Wow. You can feel it shattered right here. You come over to this side, feels completely smooth. You don't feel any shreds of glass right there at all.
(voice-over): Armoring a vehicle can cost between $50,000 and $150,000. You get special tires that keep rolling after blowing out. And to escape kidnapping situations, options include road tacks and electrified door handles.
(on camera): These cars can also be equipped with a smoke screen. Now what happens is, is that essentially it creates a big wall of smoke and you're unable to see the car in front of you and they're able to make a quick getaway.
(voice-over): With gun battles and kidnappings making headlines across Mexico, the private car armoring business is booming. Kimball usually armors just over 75 cars a year. This year he'll retrofit about 150. And more Americans doing business south of the border are buying the protection.
KIMBALL: They're not targeting these large executives of these large companies anymore. They're targeting just regular business owners or --
LAVANDERA: Anybody who might have money.
KIMBALL: Who they think even if they think they have money. That's the danger. LAVANDERA: No one buying these cars would talk to us on camera. The customers come from around the world. Private car armoring used to be a luxury of the rich and famous. Trent Kimball says that's changing.
KIMBALL: The amazing thing is there are people that even that don't even have that type of money that feel the need to have the vehicle armored. That's what's -- that's what's more amazing to me.
LAVANDERA (on camera): What do you take away from that?
KIMBALL: It's a scary world. It's a scary world.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Ed Lavandera, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Tacks that drop out from underneath and the electrified door handles. I didn't even know they had that.
ROBERTS: The only thing they're missing is the ejection seat.
CHETRY: Yes, exactly. Sad, sad commentary on what's going on, though.
Well happening right now, Taliban militants start a withdrawal in Pakistan's Buner District, at least they're claiming that they're pulling out. But with a weak central government and an arsenal of nuclear weapons, the country still is a ticking time bomb. We're talking to former CIA counterterrorism expert Michael Scheuer ahead about how to solve the problem.
Also outrage at banks, not just over the bailouts, but the bump in rates on your credit cards and those hidden fees. President Obama sits down with bank bosses and is trying to get new rules to help the little guy.
It's 23 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Taliban militants start their withdrawal from Pakistan's Buner District. They seized control, got within 60 miles from the capital city. There's a weak government and a nuclear nation, and a real threat of nuclear weapons possibly falling into the wrong hands.
Michael Scheuer is a former counterterrorism analyst. He's the author of "Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraq" and he joins me from Washington this morning.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Michael.
MICHAEL SCHEUER, AUTHOR, "MARCHING TOWARD HELL": You're welcome. Thank you. CHETRY: So we're hearing these reports that the Taliban is moving out of the contested Buner District. Former CIA officer Gary Bernstein who we had on the show in the last hour says, you know what? This is for show. This is for the cameras to get some video of this, but the Taliban's ultimate goal is really to seize control in Pakistan. What's your take?
SCHEUER: I think there's a little room for doubt on that. The Taliban, of course, will seize Pakistan if they can. But the Pakistani army remains very -- a very effective organization. And what we're seeing right now is the Saudis are dispensing money to the Taliban to keep them moving west toward Afghanistan.
The Saudis do not want to see Pakistan collapse. And so, there's a combination of factors here. But I think what we're going to see in the near term probably is the military take over the government.
CHETRY: You know, it's interesting though. You mentioned the Pakistan army. You said they're well equipped.
The reports are that they only deployed a few hundred poorly- equipped forces to go to Buner. They have a force of 500,000 soldiers. They have another 500,000 reservists. They get $1 billion a year from the Americans to aid them, but they're not seeming to use all of that to confront this Taliban-led insurgency. So what else is going on there?
SCHEUER: Their enemy is India.
CHETRY: Right.
SCHEUER: What we keep forgetting is what we want the Pakistanis to do is engage in a civil war in their country. The Taliban is not a threat to them. It was not a threat to them until Musharraf helped us and made it into a threat. The Pakistanis now have to push those people west toward Afghanistan. They have to be fighting us and not the Pakistanis, and that's what the Pakistan goal will be in the coming years.
Part of the problem is that the Americans have relied on the Pakistanis to do our dirty work.
CHETRY: Right.
SCHEUER: We should have taken care of the Taliban.
CHETRY: The other question though is interesting. You said the enemy is India, and we talk about, you know, the lineup along the border and that being the enemy. At the same time, Pakistan as a whole does not want sharia law and Islamic fundamentalism in their country. Do they? They don't want the Taliban taking over, going back to seventh century Islam?
SCHEUER: Well, it's certainly clear that a great part of Pakistan doesn't want the democracy we insisted be installed in Pakistan. Democracy is one of the great killers of American interests overseas and ultimately America for its own interest have the best possible government in General Musharraf. We decided that we wanted to destroy that government.
Mrs. Clinton said we have to be careful what we sow. Well, the problem we're facing in Pakistan is a problem we sowed ourselves.
CHETRY: All right. Well, very interesting take this morning. Yes, a lot of complicated issues to work through as we take a look not even to mention the nuclear issue in all of this.
Michael Scheuer, former CIA counterterrorism analyst, thanks for being with us this morning.
SCHEUER: Thank you, ma'am.
ROBERTS: Coming up on the half-hour, and here's what's on the agenda -- the big stories that we're breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
First, breaking news this morning. At least 55 people have been killed in back-to-back suicide bombings near a holy shrine in Baghdad. Those latest numbers from the "Associated Press."
Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING because coming up at our next hour, General Ray Odierno, the commander of all forces in Iraq joins us live from Baghdad.
North Korea says two American journalists accused of "hostile acts" will stand trial. The two journalists, Laura Ling and Euna Lee work for Al Gore's Current TV network. The secretive state took the pair in custody back in March near the borders, the north border with China. They were reporting on refugees who were living in China.
And a law enforcement official says the medical student accused of the so-called Craigslist killing is on suicide watch in the Boston jail where he's being held this morning. Meanwhile, prosecutors have placed an ad on Craigslist looking for any other potential victims.
Well, even after getting billions in bailout cash, banks and credit card companies are tightening the screws on you, upping fees and interest rates. Now, the people and the president are saying enough is enough. Our Jason Carroll on the story for us this morning.
Don't have to ask where's the outrage here? It's all over the place.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It is very evident when you hear from some of these folks. And you know the president is trying to step in and help a little bit. Congress is already debating a credit card bill of rights. This after they heard from a growing number of people who have had it with their credit card companies.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): We heard the anger on our phones. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, the government is letting the credit card companies be nothing but legal loan sharks. Credit cards are the bane of our society.
CARROLL: There is outrage on the streets.
NANCY VON HELLENS, HAD CREDIT LIMIT DROPPED: But this is my credit card, this has been my credit card since 1997, and I - I really feel, pardon me, shafted.
JANE CANELLI: As far as I'm concerned the bank should be eating this, not the rest of us.
CARROLL: Card holders fed up with credit card companies, tired of excessive fees and high interest rates, out of patience over what some consumer advocates call deceptive tactics.
JOE RIDOUT, CONSUMER ACTION: You take out a car loan and you miss a phone bill payment, your auto lender can't turn around and raise your interest rate. The credit card companies do this every day. It's fundamentally unfair to consumers because credit card companies are essentially given a license to steal.
CARROLL: President Obama says enough. He has been a strong proponent of improving practices of the credit card industry and met with executives from the American Bankers Association.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our administration is going to be pushing for reform in this area. We think it's important that we get input from the credit card issuers as we shape this reform.
CARROLL: The president wants more protection for consumers, including banning unfair rate increases, clearer statements with less fine print, and easily accessible contract terms.
The American Bankers Association released a statement saying, "The president did raise concerns about certain issues surrounding credit cards. The card executives listened carefully to those concerns and agreed to work with the administration to address them."
The Federal Reserve already put in place new rules expected to take effect next year to help protect card holders. Some bankers worry more legislation could make economic matters worse by making it harder for banks to offer credit. But some consumer advocates say that argument is just more financial spin.
RIDOUT: We hope that lawmakers will listen to what the public and the president are saying and ignore the calls of banking lobbyists to let them play fast and loose with the rules.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Well, the banks say despite what consumers call high credit card fees, they are still losing money. The president says his economic team will work with the banks and Congress to come up with tougher legislation to try and help consumers out who are suffering.
ROBERTS: They are.
A couple of bills making their way through Congress now. See which one survives. Jason, thanks so much.
So, just how bad is America's debt problem? Here's more in an "AM Extra."
Nearly four out of five households have at least one credit card. The average debt on those cards, nearly $11,000 according to some groups.
The worst offender, Anchorage, Alaska has the highest credit card debt in the nation. Which town is the lowest? Lincoln, Nebraska.
There are roughly 1.5 billion credit cards in use in the United States. If you were to stack them all on top of each other they would be as tall as 13 Mt. Everests.
CHETRY: Well, a bunch of people that are Twittering on our show page are saying they're not using them anymore. One of them is saying he has near perfect credit. He still saw his rates go up. And someone else wrote that they their credit card in the freezer. So they have to thaw it out if the they want it. So they really have to think long and hard before the use it.
CARROLL: You know, I ran to Christine Romans backstage a little while ago and, of course, I got an earful. You know, she reminded me that you know lending money is the second oldest profession in this country and that you got to read the fine print. You know what I mean, reminding consumers, read the fine print.
CHETRY: Right. I love...
ROBERTS: In both cases.
CHETRY: I love how the NEWSROOM has been renamed "backstage."
CARROLL: I don't follow.
ROBERTS: OK.
CHETRY: Why, what is the oldest profession? What is it?
CARROLL: I'm going to take a pass, actually. Well, on that note...
CHETRY: A four-mile inferno in South Carolina right now. They are calling it Alligator Valley, Alligator Alley rather - shut down this morning. Firefighters though are making headway. So far, no one has been injured and they're hoping that more humid temperatures help them put a dent in this.
Also, how can you possibly use Twitter without using your hands? Dr. Sanjay Gupta on some breakthrough technology, tweeting with the mind.
It's 35 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
CHETRY: It's 38 minutes past the hour.
We fast forward through the stories that will be making news later today. Some key indicators on the economy. Due out this morning, in just an hour, the Commerce Department will release durable goods figures for March.
At 10:00 Eastern, we'll get a snapshot of the housing market when the government releases the latest numbers on new home sales. And we're also expecting first quarter earnings reports from 3M, Xerox, Honeywell, all before the opening bell.
At 1:30 p.m. Eastern, President Obama is going to be meeting with the families struggling to cover the cost of college and discusses the proposal to end the private federal family education loans program. That's a mouthful. Obama is taking some heat from his own party on his decision to remove private banks from the federal student loan program and instead giving money directly to the department of ed.
Al Gore will be on the Hill today, talking about his trademark issue, climate change. He'll testify for the House Energy Committee which has been holding hearings on climate change all week. They are looking at energy and environmental legislation proposed by house democrats.
And the 40th annual New Orleans Jazz Heritage Festival is this weekend. The festival starts today. It's celebrated. It's a tradition celebrated in New Orleans crucial to the local economy which depends heavily on tourism.
Our Rob Marciano is here with us.
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: Tweeting with the mind. Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows you breakthrough technology that allows people to use Twitter without using their hands.
And the first lady takes questions from a group of lucky young kids. Hear what she tells them about where she goes when she sneaks out of the White House.
It's 40 1/2 minutes after the hour.
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(MUSIC PLAYING) ROBERTS: Well, what if you could use Twitter without using your hands? It sounds crazy, But apparently you can. Breakthrough technology now means people who can't move their bodies can use Twitter with their minds.
We're paging our Dr. Gupta to find out how all of that works. He joins us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Sounds like another breakthrough in fascinating technology, Doc.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I love stories like this, because it is very interesting in this idea that you're using your mind for things and measuring the impulses from your mind in ways that we haven't really thought about for some time.
Exactly what you said, researchers at the University of Wisconsin took two relatively well known and easily defined technologies, Twitter and what is known as EEG - electroencephalogram.
And what they're doing there, it might be hard for you to tell this, but he's wearing a skull cap. All these little wires that are coming out of his head are measuring certain impulses. And when a letter lights up, he's actually creating words.
For example, he wrote "Go badgers" there. And these things flash. His brain recognizes something he likes and he's right now, writing, "Spelling with my brain." He just sees that up there.
It is pretty remarkable. Again, his hands never touch the keyboard.
This isn't super-fast technology. It takes, you know, several minutes to write a couple of words. But it could get better and it could be a tool for a lot of people who can't simply use their hands. For example, something known as "locked-in syndrome." People whose brains are sort of locked in and they can't actually do anything.
Steven Hawking is someone that we have been paying attention in the news latterly. He has been in the hospital, as you know, he only had a little bit of movement in his finger. Someone who has had a stroke, for example, might get some benefit.
John, I don't know if you ever saw the movie "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly." But that was about a man who was locked in and blinking out an entire book. "The Diving Bell and the Butterfly," just simply by blinking. This may have been a better tool for someone like him.
ROBERTS: I did. I read the book and I saw the movie. Jean- Dominique Bauby, just extraordinary the amount of effort that it took for him to dictate that book. It looks like more effort than what the fellow there with the skull cap is using.
Why did they choose Twitter as opposed to instant message or e- mail or something like that? GUPTA: Well, you know, Twitter has 140-character limit. That was one of the things. It is simple, it is short. You don't have to use any sort of specific grammar. You can violate rules.
This is the AMFix page, by the way, which I like Twitter. It's a lot of fun, a lot of people interacting with us there. It's one of those things that's a lot more convenient, I think, in so many ways and instantly goes out to all of their followers. They might even create a Twitter page when someone who's locked in could send messages to their caregivers or people who are in the house if they needed something.
ROBERTS: All right. It's fascinating stuff. Doc, thanks so much.
GUPTA: Yes. All right. Thanks.
ROBERTS: Good to see you this morning.
And Sanjay by the way is going to be on our Twitter page this morning and answering any medical questions that you may have. He'll be doing it with his fingers though as opposed to his brain. Of course, they will be wired together through the neurons. Just follow AMFix. Again, the doc online for us all morning -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks, John.
Well, former POW Senator John McCain says waterboarding is torture, but he's also warning that an investigation into interrogation tactics in the Bush administration could turn into a witch hunt. The former GOP presidential nominee will be joining us live in just 10 minutes.
Also, at least 55 people dead in suicide bombings in Iraq. The violence - is it getting worse again? We're talking live to General Ray Odierno, the U.S. military's top general in the ground in Iraq.
It's 45 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: What would you ask the first lady if you had the chance? "Take Your Child to Work Day" yesterday, kids of White House staffers got the mike and they wanted to know how Michelle Obama spends her free time.
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UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I was going to ask what are you doing in your free time when you're not busy?
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: What do I do with my free time when I'm not busy? That doesn't happen often.
Right now, I'm taking care of this puppy. So I'm doing a lot of dog walking and dog training. And you know, every now and then, I have this thing that I like to do with some of my staff members and we sneak out without telling anybody and we go and test out all of the fun places to eat in D.C. Like I went to Five Guys and nobody knew it. It was good!
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CHETRY: She is so down to Earth and she really seems natural with her comments. It's so funny because we knew she was going to be the one that ended up doing all of the dog walking, right?
ROBERTS: The girls never do the dog walking. That's for sure. It's not just the girls, it's the kids doing the dog walking.
Well, Bo Obama is apparently issue number one among third graders. Issue number one among third grade voters, I should say. The first dog was the hot topic at the White House yesterday and the first lady talked about Bo's first week in his new home.
Alina Cho has been following all those important issues.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very closely. I didn't realize that Bo got promotion to Bo Obama.
Good morning, guys. Good morning, everybody.
In a word, crazy. That's the first lady's take on Bo, the White House pup, also known as "The Most Famous Dog in the World."
Now to be fair, Mrs. Obama does realize that Bo is just a pup, a six-month-old Portuguese water dog who just moved into the White House last week.
Can you believe it was just last week, guys? And just listen to how Bo is getting used to his new digs.
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M. OBAMA: Oh, he is a crazy dog. You know, he loves to chew on people's feet. It was like 10:00 at night, everybody was asleep and we hear all of this barking and jumping around. The president and I came out and we thought somebody was out there and it was just Bo. He was playing with his ball and it was like there was another person in the house.
He's kind of crazy. But he is still a puppy, so he likes to play a lot.
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CHO: In a little bit of time there. The first lady made those comments yesterday as John just said at an event marking the annual "Take Your Child to Work Day."
Now, remember Bo was a gift from Senator Ted Kennedy who didn't want him anymore. Just kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
CHO: It was a gift. He arrived last Tuesday at the White House.
ROBERTS: Take the dog, please!
CHO: The first lady, as you've heard, that she spends a lot of time walking the dog. You know the president, you'll recall, has said, you know, everybody in the family is going to share in that duty but, you know, the first lady is doing a little bit more of that. I think the girls will probably do a little of that too but you know, just goes to show you, having a dog at the White House, even with all those people helping you can be a bit of a challenge in the early days.
ROBERTS: Particularly energetic dogs, too.
CHO: Yes, a Portuguese water dog apparently. I'm not a big dog expert but, you know, apparently they are feisty in the early days. They are, Brian Bell says, our producer says.
ROBERTS: They have a personality.
CHO: They do. That's one way of saying it.
CHETRY: Willful.
CHO: All right. Again, a gift from the Kennedys.
CHETRY: Good luck, Bo. Good luck.
ROBERTS: Please, Mr. President, take this dog!
CHO: Exactly!
ROBERTS: Chewing up the house.
CHETRY: Big house to chew.
Well still ahead, we will speak with Senator John McCain. He is warning that a possible decision to prosecute Bush administration officials over the CIA memos could turn into a witch hunt. He is a former POW, outspoken critic of past interrogation tactics. So we're going to talk to him next.
Also developing, at least 55 killed in suicide bombings in Iraq. A look at whether or not the violence is growing there and what to do about it. We're talking live to General Ray Odierno, the U.S. military's top general on the ground.
It's 53 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. We're following developing news for you right now. The Pentagon is getting set to release another batch of photos the ACLU says shows prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hands of American personnel. The ACLU is also saying that they filed suit for the pictures to be released and they want them to be released and should be by May 28th.
Also, the new photographs could change the course of the political uproar over allegations of torture during the Bush era. Yesterday, Attorney General Eric Holder went before Congress and weighed in on holding people who approve techniques like waterboarding accountable.
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HOLDER: I will not permit the criminalization of policy differences. However, it is my responsibility, as the attorney general, to enforce the law. It is my duty to enforce the law. If I see evidence of wrongdoing, I will pursue it to the full extent of the law.
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CHETRY: Joining me now to talk more about this, former candidate for president, former prison of war, Arizona Senator John McCain.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Senator.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Good morning.
CHETRY: You've called waterboarding torture before. What do you say to those Bush administration officials who say that it's enhanced interrogation and that it doesn't cause people to be in any real harm?
MCCAIN: Well, I disagree. And I think that that's why we passed a thing called the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment. The Geneva Conventions, which is for the treatment not only of uniformed but also enemy combatants, prohibit such treatment as well.
But the point is now it's time to move on. All of those -- the president went to the CIA and said, people who were engaged in that would not be held responsible. And now those who gave their best legal advice to the president, even though I disagreed with it, we should move on. And to go back and hold people some way criminally liable for their best legal advice they gave to the president of the United States is unacceptable to me.
CHETRY: There are some who say it's an issue of morality. Paul Krugman in "The New York Times" says, you know, the only way we can regain our moral compass is to investigate how this happened. If necessary, to prosecute those responsible. We need to do this for the sake of our future. It's about reclaiming America's soul.
What about that morality question? Well, it might be bad political sight, it's something we have to do. MCCAIN: I'm not talking about political sight. I'm talking about the fact that people give their best legal advice, even if it's wrong, be held criminally liable. That's what they do in banana republics, not in the United States of America.
And this has been investigated. The Senate Armed Services Committee issued a report. There has been other memos which have been revealed. Everybody knows what happened. To go back again would be an act of political vengeance and America doesn't need that right now.
CHETRY: Also, there's been talk about whether or not more memos coming out will make America less safe, that it will play into the hands of our enemies. Do you think that the more we talk about this and the more it comes out we do put our national security at risk?
MCCAIN: Well, I think there's a time for closure. There is a time for closure on everything. President Ford pardoned former President Nixon. That was strongly disagreed with by the liberal left at the time, and yet, it turned out historically to be the right thing to do.
It's time to bring closure. We know about it. We know that, in my view, it was wrong to do, but now say that you're going to tell lawyers that they're going to be prosecuted criminally for the best advice, even if it was bad advice that they gave the president of the United States, to my mind, it sets a terrible precedent for the future.
CHETRY: You're talking about closure. It's interesting that your former chief strategist, Steve Schmidt, gave a pretty candid interview to the Politico about the campaign. One of the things that he said when the Lehman Brothers collapsed in the fall, I knew pretty much right away that from an electoral strategy perspective, the campaign was finished. Did you also feel that way at the time?
MCCAIN: Oh, no. What Steve was saying and what we all knew was we were three points ahead in the polls and we dropped to seven to 10 points down after the stock market collapsed. Obviously, the economy had a huge effect. We fought to the last hour of the last day and I'm very proud of my campaign and I'm very grateful for Steve and all of our team.
CHETRY: You know, how did you find that strength? Because you were out there day after day, I mean, event after event when you knew or at least, you know, all indications pointed to the fact that it was quite an uphill battle?
MCCAIN: Well, I faced uphill battle in securing the nomination, I faced other uphill battles in my life. A great honor of my life was to receive the nomination of the republican party and I'm grateful for the opportunity to have served as the nominee and I'll never forget it.
CHETRY: Well, your daughter, Meghan is certainly finding her political voice. She was on "The View" yesterday. I mean, she is quite an eloquent young lady. She's speaking out on issues. She talked about torture. She talked about gay marriage and she also talked about the republican party being scared of change. What do you think about some of her criticisms of the GOP?
MCCAIN: I think I love and respect my daughter, and I appreciate the fact that she brings fresh views and ideas, and we need that in our party. And we don't always agree, and sometimes we have spirited discussions, and that's good in families.
CHETRY: See, she's a future maverick, right, in training.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAIN: Maybe. Maybe.
CHETRY: Senator John McCain, always great to talk to you. Thanks for being with us this morning.
MCCAIN: Thanks for having me on. Thank you.
