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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony`s Attorney Says State`s Evidence Is Junk Science
Aired April 27, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee`s, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull colored in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. After a disastrous PR junket by grandparents George and Cindy Anthony, including a botched appearance on Oprah, tot mom`s defense attorney piles on by speaking at length on camera! He claims cutting-edge science is actually junk science after science proves a dead human body was in tot mom`s car trunk, even going on to compare the smell of little Caylee`s decomposing body to a potato!
He then says tot mom`s been, quote, "intimidated" by the state and intimates because there`s no cause of death and no eyewitness, tot mom is innocent, tot mom`s lawyer dodging tough questions, offering no explanation about the nanny she claims kidnapped Caylee or why tot mom goes a whole month without reporting her missing.
And tonight grandparents George and Cindy head back for round two under oath. Round one, they storm out, yelling, cursing at the lawyers, all on videotape. But in their effort to saturate the jury pool with their version of events, they announce they`ll open up to millions on "The Oprah Winfrey" show, but first do a two-part appearance on CBS. Well, Oprah calls the whole thing off. But now grandmother Cindy is bragging she was the one who canceled Oprah Winfrey. OK! It all bodes ill for the grandparents on the stand at trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: If they think that this is going to make her plea, they`re sadly mistaken. They`ve been trying to intimidate Casey Anthony from day one. And it didn`t work then. It`s not going to work now. She`s aware of the forces that are out to get her.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I do want to be working with you guys and I don`t want to work against you, but I`m going to have to -- you know, I`m going to have to let people know that, you know, there`s a lot of days that went by before you guys started focusing on finding, you know, some other things. And I`d like to talk to you guys about it. You know me. I like to speak my mind. And I`d rather speak my mind with you guys than on national TV.
I don`t think Casey will take a plea deal. You know, Casey`s not going to admit for something she hasn`t done.
MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ, CBS "THE EARLY SHOW": Have you had a chance to ask Casey why she didn`t report Caylee missing?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. She was afraid. I mean, that`s the answer. She was afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would be on your list of potential people currently that did this?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I`m not going to discuss that with you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a list, but you won`t tell me?
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not going to tell you.
CINDY ANTHONY: He`s shaking his head when he asks me a question. I`m answering it, and then he cuts me off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission?
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s not relevant to this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not...
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not answering the question.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not going to answer this any further with that.
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s exactly what the sheriff`s department did to my daughter. They never let her speak. You guys are doing the same thing to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... about Sawgrass Apartments...
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done. I`ve already answered the question. She`s not the one. I`m done.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Florida, we have certain rules about not answering questions.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`ll take my chances with the judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news, Tracy, California, the body of 8- year-old Sandra Cantu found folded into a suitcase in a nearby pond, prime suspect 28-year-old female Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby charged with sex assault and murder. The Sunday school teacher swears she is innocent and then claims it was an accident, changing her story. Well, was the alleged rape an accident, too?
Tonight, a California judge says the autopsy results on the 8-year-old are so upsetting, so inflammatory, the autopsy results being kept secret -- that`s right, under seal, to avoid public outrage.
And tonight: It just never ends. Is the Sunday school teacher linked to the disappearance of another 7-year-old girl and not one but two arsons, setting an apartment building on fire twice? Well, Huckaby still under suicide watch after swallowing X-acto knife blades. Clearly, that didn`t work. But she shows up in court cool, calm, collected, smiling at all the right people, including the judge. This Sunday school teacher better start praying!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss my little girl! I love her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, whose body was found stuffed inside a black suitcase just two miles from her own home. The judge in Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby`s murder trial rules the autopsy report on Sandra Cantu will remain sealed to prevent public outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While these are important findings, if we release these findings, they might jeopardize the fair trial rights of the defendant. That`s what it comes down to, in essence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge determined that releasing the autopsy and toxicology report could not only threaten the privacy of the Cantu family, but could infuriate the public and hurt the integrity of the case. Huckaby appeared in court for the ruling, choosing once again not to enter a plea, asking for more time to consult with her attorney. The judge granted the request.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crime of murder was committed by Melissa Huckaby with malice aforethought (INAUDIBLE) Sandra Cantu, a human being.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s never closure on something like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just the beginning. Are you kidding? We have to live the rest of your lives without Sandra.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also, a 17-year-old high school beauty, a model student, soccer player, vanishes into thin air on spring break, Myrtle Beach. Tonight, where is 17-year-old Brittanee Drexel (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: South Carolina police are searching for a 17-year- old last seen around 8:00 PM Saturday. Brittanee Marie Drexel was in Myrtle Beach with a group of friends, went for a walk on the beach and never returned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids that she was with are all older than her. They`re probably from about 18 to 20 years old. And they have five different stories that they`re telling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brittanee`s mother has a gut feeling her daughter isn`t safe and something`s wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s my first-born, so I mean, I just -- it`s tearing me up inside. I`m very, very, very upset. She wouldn`t have left her clothes at the hotel where they were all staying at. So I know something is seriously wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brittanee left for Myrtle Beach without her mother`s permission, but her mother says it`s out of character for Brittanee not to contact her. Police say Brittanee suffers from depression, which has authorities very concerned about her wellbeing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brittanee, please call Mom. We love you and want you to come home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. After a disastrous PR junket by grandparents George and Cindy Anthony, including a botched appearance on Oprah, tot mom`s defense attorney piles on, speaking at length on camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Science is science. It should speak for itself, and it shouldn`t be manipulated. It if can, then it`s not science. Don`t forget, law enforcement has a specific bias here. They have charged someone. They now have to make the square pieces fit into the circle holes one way or another.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez- Gonzalez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you sit here today and everything you`ve learned and everything you`ve seen, do you believe that to be true?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have -- I don`t -- I have no idea who has -- who took Caylee.
What do you want me to tell Zanny?
CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you make any effort to try and locate this Zanny?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever dial or call or talk to this person?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I have not.
What do you want me to tell her that`s going to make her bring her back?
CASEY ANTHONY: Just tell her that we forgive her, that all we want is our Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you screaming bloody murder, This woman Zanny`s got my granddaughter, by gosh, why aren`t we chasing her, or anything like that?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Again, sir, you`re going to have to ask the sheriff`s department, the FBI and the private investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read my question back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you screaming bloody murder this woman Zanny`s got my granddaughter, by gosh, why aren`t we chasing her, or anything like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just answer yes or no.
GEORGE ANTHONY: No.
RODRIGUEZ: If she did commit this crime, should she be punished because whoever killed Caylee deserves to be, or would you like to see leniency because she`s your daughter?
CINDY ANTHONY: Again, you know, we want -- we want the truth, you know. But again, we have to wait for everything to come out in trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter, standing by in Orlando. We are taking your calls live tonight. Mark, after this failed PR junket by the grandparents, including a botched appearance on Oprah, why did the defense attorney, who has no death penalty experience, feel it incumbent to give an at-length interview on air in front of the camera? Why?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, we really don`t know that, except he`s probably has a pretty good relationship from Bob Keeling (ph) from WESH television here in Orlando.
One thing that Baez did is he talked about the scientific findings of the Oak Ridge lab in Tennessee. That`s the so-called "body farm." Nancy, as you know, they say that there may be decomposing air or air of a decomposing body in the back of Casey`s trunk. Baez says that`s not conclusive. That`s not positive. It`s not conclusive whatsoever. He says this scientific research is not ready for primetime. But he bordered -- and he stopped just short of calling it junk science.
Baez went on to say the scientific findings reached by Oak Ridge has not received peer review as of yet, and he says it probably won`t see the light of day in a court of law.
GRACE: Well, you know what? That`s what they said about fingerprints, DNA, a host of forensic testing that is now every day, by rote, by routine in courtrooms all across this country.
I want to go out to a special guest joining us, Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist. Dr. Arnall, I personally trained, some of my training, anyway, regarding forensics at Oak Ridge laboratories, and I`ve never -- I`ve never been in Quantico before. But I`ve never seen a more high-tech or advanced laboratory in my life, and I`ve seen quite a few.
What can you tell me about this air sampling technology that they have used for over 20 components of human decomposition were found in the air in tot mom`s trunk? What can you tell me, Dr. Arnall?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, the technology is time-tested, and the technology itself is universally accepted. All they`ve done is take this universally accepted technology and use it for a new application. And the science that I`ve seen looks like state of the art.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: You might want to go to the judge and explain why Zenaida has Fernandez-Gonzalez on the complaint when Fernandez is not her name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, do you want to advise your client or not?
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s the same thing. So you know, if you guys want to permit -- you know, do perjury, then go for it. I`ll take my chances with the judge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Mr. Conway, is that your position, too, as her attorney, that she`s not answering this question that I`m asking?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know whether there`s an investigation or not, so let`s move on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s taking the 5th Amendment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s move on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you got to state your...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need to know the basis...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you taking the 5th Amendment here?
BRAD CONWAY, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: I want to take a break and talk to my client. That`s what I want to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fair enough.
RODRIGUEZ: Cindy, your first instinct when you called 911 was to say, quote, "It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car." When you take that plus all the evidence prosecutors say they`ve gathered, it doesn`t bode well for Casey.
CONWAY: You know, Maggie, there are issues that are going to come up at trial and they`re anxiously awaiting that. And there`s been so much pre-trial publicity that`s going to affect the ultimate outcome and her ability to get a fair trial, so the questions that have to do with the statements that they gave, they want to wait and they want to tell the truth in front of a jury and let a jury decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Carla in Massachusetts. Hi, Carla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say that I really respect and you all the good work you`re doing.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And those baby twins are precious.
GRACE: Well, Mommy cut Lucy`s hair today. So when you see that, I`ll let you reassess their appearance. Didn`t come out exactly as I had planned. But thank you. And what is your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing could damage their beauty, and yours, as well. I have two quick ones, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I`d like to know, has Casey`s (SIC) remains been buried yet? And if so, where, or why not? That`s my first quick question. And my second question is, way back when this all started -- I`ve been glued to your show and following this case very, very seriously -- Casey had a boyfriend that was a police officer who initially denied knowing her, and then he was questioned and he was fired. Whatever became of that, if anything?
GRACE: OK. Thank you, Carla in Massachusetts. First question to Nikki Pierce with WDBO radio. It`s my understanding, Nikki, that to this day, Caylee`s remains have not been buried.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s my understanding, as well. They`ve been very tight-lipped about. The family hasn`t said anything. But as I understand it, to this day, the remains have not been buried.
GRACE: And Ellie Jostad, recall the former lover tot mom had early on that was a cop? What happened?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. That guy`s name is Anthony Rusciano. He an Orange County sheriff`s deputy. He was asked twice by his superiors if he had any connection to this case, if he knew her. He apparently lied to them about it, said he`d met her at a party, that was it. They later found out he`d been communicating with her, they`d had an intimate relationship, as he put it, and he was fired from his job for lying about it.
GRACE: Again, we are taking your calls live today. To pile on to a disastrous PR junket by grandparents George and Cindy Anthony, the defense attorney takes it upon himself to give an in-depth interview on camera, first of all, claiming cutting-edge science at Oak Ridge laboratories is actually junk science, after it proves a dead body was in his client`s car.
I want to go out to the lawyers, Jack Ford, Mickey Sherman, Stacy Schneider. First of all, to you, Jack Ford, veteran trial lawyer, now author "Osiris Alliance" -- I`ve got it right here with me. Congratulations, Jack Ford, on your new book. First of all, who let the defense attorney yak? Why did he do this? Rule number one, keep your piehole shut.
JACK FORD, FORMER PROSECUTOR, IN SESSION ANCHOR: You know, Nancy, I got to agree with you. There are times when I think it`s helpful for a defense attorney to get out in front of a story. I`m not so sure -- I think they`re so far behind it right now that coming out and challenging this science, when I think we all will probably agree that a judge will listen to the scientists here. The judge might say, Look, I`ve got some questions, but I`ll let the jury decide just how valid this science is, but I`m not going to keep it out completely.
So if you -- in fact, you`re the defense attorney, you have to be picking and choosing your press battles here. And whether this was a good idea -- I`m not so sure this is a battle that they are going to win.
GRACE: To Mickey Sherman. He then goes on, OK? This is Jose Baez, defense attorney, unleashed. He then goes on to compare the smell of Caylee`s remains in the back of that trunk to a potato. Mickey, please, just in case he happens to be watching, please give him some advice.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I agree with Jack, but by the same token, generally, it`s not a good idea to go out there and dis the state or dis their evidence. And technically, ethically, you`re not supposed to poison the prospective jury pool. But you kind of are allowed to in most states. The exception is when you`re just trying to level the playing field. And that`s Jose Baez was doing today. Successfully or unsuccessfully, he was taking a shot at leveling the playing field by putting out there the fact that -- you know, you have every fact out there at Oak Ridge. I think Oak Ridge, I think of the atomic bomb. These people have incredible credibility. So all he`s trying to do is say, Wait until you see what the jury sees. Don`t judge the case right now.
GRACE: And then we learn -- back out to Ellie Jostad -- that during all of this, grandmother Cindy brags that she`s the one that canceled Oprah Winfrey because of, quote, "integrity." Am I correct?
JOSTAD: Yes, you`re right, Nancy. She actually sent an e-mail to Jessica O`Donofrio, one of our affiliate reporters who`s been on the show many times, told her that it wasn`t that Oprah called it off, it was that she, Cindy Anthony, pulled the plug.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Mr. Morgan went on TV and said that the reason he`s doing this is because he wants his client cleared. So the reason I`m here is to clear his client. It has nothing to do with my daughter`s and my relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate that.
CINDY ANTHONY: So let`s move on to Ms. Gonzalez so that Mr. Morgan can go home and I can go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I`m...
CINDY ANTHONY: Because I`m very tired. It`s been a long day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand you`re tired, but let`s go back to my question, OK?
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not answering it.
We don`t know what happened to Caylee.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, we know that she was murdered.
CINDY ANTHONY: But we don`t know what happened to her. That`s the thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dianne Clements. She is the founder for Justice for All, a pro-death penalty .com. Dianne, in some of his other statements to the press, the defense attorney says the death penalty doesn`t work. What do you think?
DIANNE CLEMENTS, JUSTICE FOR ALL: Well, the death penalty works 100 percent for those who are executed. That`s pretty clear. The death penalty does deter crime. States that have the death penalty and states where the death penalty was reenacted in the `70s had a downtick in capital murder. So yes, the death penalty does work.
GRACE: You know, back to the DNA -- thank you, Dianne Clements with Justice for All. Back to the argument that this cutting-edge science the state is using is actually junk science. Out to Stacy Schneider joining us from New York. She`s a defense attorney. Stacy, why -- let me see the lawyers, please, Elizabeth. Stacy, why is it that when DNA clears one of your clients, then it`s great, but when it indicates guilt, then it`s junk science? Could you explain that discrepancy, please?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I can. It took a long time for DNA to be acceptable in the courts and to be tried and tested and...
GRACE: Yes, we know that. Please answer the question.
SCHNEIDER: Well, I have a different opinion than every single person here, including the lawyers. This could be found to be junk science. That forensic report says that this -- this could come from an animal and that this is not exact. That word, "not exact," is in this forensic report. This lawyer has grounds. He`s got something.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t that the right after the Casey had a fight.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . with her family and left the home?
C. ANTHONY: She didn`t have a fight with me. Go there. Go ahead, Mr. Morgan. She didn`t fight with me, sir. No, let it go. Let him look like an ass on the thing. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t that the time that Zenaida Gonzalez -- you are aware that this Zenaida Gonzalez was at Sawgrass Apartments, are you not?
C. ANTHONY: Whether or not she was or not, what I`m aware.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you just said you.
C. ANTHONY: . was that her signature? Is that her signature? Did she sign it? See?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on.
C. ANTHONY: Whoa, answer the question. Is that she -- you`re asking me, did she sign that? OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you.
C. ANTHONY: All right. You`re asking me a question and I want to verify, did she sign that Sawgrass thing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: All right. Taking your calls live and against the cardinal rule of not speaking prior to trial after a disastrous press junket by the grandparents. Tot mom`s own defense attorney opens up, bares himself for an in-depth interview on camera.
Straight out to Lucy in Texas. Hi, Lucy.
LUCY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in and for watching. What`s your question, dear?
LUCY: Yes. A few days ago, or maybe even a week ago, the lawyers were talking and saying that the judge could displace Mr. Baez, take him away from first seat. And what would happen then? And why isn`t it now, when he seems to be making such a big mess of this case?
GRACE: Lucy in Texas, excellent question. Out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter joining us from Orlando. Now isn`t it true, Mark Williams, that he has called in some death penalty qualified lawyers? Yes, no?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Yes, he has. As a matter of fact, Jose Baez only has about three to four years of experience practicing at the bar.
And he`s.
GRACE: Now wait a minute. Wait a minute. I want to clarify something, Mark Williams.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GRACE: When you say three to four years experience practicing, do you mean he`s been out of law school three or four years?
WILLIAMS: That`s what we understand because.
GRACE: OK. Because didn`t he work at Lexis-Nexis Research? Because that`s not practicing law. That is not in the courtroom, in the trenches, making objections, putting in evidence, striking juries...
WILLIAMS: Agreed. Agreed. You want your face.
GRACE: So that`s not three or four years` experience.
WILLIAMS: Well, when this story first broken, you know, all of us spent, I swear, a lifetime of the story. He had three years of experience. Almost a year has passed. So he has four years of experience in the courtroom. He can`t try a death penalty case. He asked Terry Letterman to help him, from South Florida, who is death penalty qualified, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. So Jack Ford joining us, former prosecutor, anchor of "In Session," formerly Court TV, author of the "Osiris Alliance" just out.
Jack, so if -- it`s not necessarily as Lucy said it but yet it is, the judge could displace him as first chair -- and then you put the death penalty qualified trying the case, but if tot mom wants him on the trial, he`s going to stay on the trial, right?
JACK FORD, FMR. PROSECUTOR & ANCHOR "IN SESSION", AUTHOR, "THE OSIRIS ALLIANCE": Well, they can keep me and one of the chairs, Nancy. You know trying death penalties are different.
GRACE: Oh yes.
FORD: You were prosecutor of murder, I defended five of them in the death penalty side. They are very different and courts are very concerned that in so many instances where there is a conviction, death penalty is imposed when it has been reversed, it`s ineffective assistance of counsel.
So down there in Florida, they`re very careful about getting people who are qualified to try death penalty cases.
GRACE: Right. You`re right, Jack Ford. Last thing they want is a reversal if there is, in fact, a conviction.
Out to Dee in Florida. Hi, Dee.
DEE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DEE: Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
DEE: I`d like to know if the grandparents are sticking by their daughter, you know, saying that she`s innocent and they are stating that Zenaida Gonzalez and the civil case is not the nanny who took their grandchild, have they actively or openly on TV or anywhere come out and said that they are searching for anyone else that could have possibly done this?
GRACE: Dee in Florida, you know, you`re dead on.
Out to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter going under oath in this case. Spent time in the home. How about it, Padilla? When you were there, were they trying to find Zenaida Gonzalez? I mean they said they had their address. They`ve got their phone number. Remember when Cindy Anthony said that?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL CASE: I remember absolutely no discussions about looking for Zenaida Gonzalez or anybody else. The first time that Zenaida Gonzalez was mentioned to me by Cindy was the day that she brought -- trotted out Casey and said, yes, she`s ready to start talking and Casey ran down the Zenaida J. Blanchard thing.
But other than that, there was never any discussion about anybody looking for anybody. George one time made a public statement about, well, you know, we`re following some people around. Other than that, no, there was absolutely no discussion.
GRACE: OK. I know this is going to be tough. But Leonard Padilla, give me a yes/no answer.
PADILLA: No.
GRACE: Remember they were -- they were going to strap you up to a polygraph, and you said bring it on? Did anybody ever poly you?
PADILLA: Never did. And I`m hoping that they do me right behind Kronk.
GRACE: OK. And out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.
Marc, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, here`s what we`ve got. The prosecution has a 30-day lag time before she reported the case. They`ve got pictures that show her living the high life during that 30 days in local clubs.
She`s got -- they`ve got a lack of concern for the whereabouts of her child. They`ve got the litany of lies. They`ve got the stink in the car. They`ve got forensic evidence corroborating that. They`ve got a decomposing hair in the car. They`ve got chloroform in the car. They`ve got a willingness to assign guilt to a phantom suspect.
They`ve got a willingness to throw their friends under the bus. They`ve got -- they`ve got an inability to have consistent stories. It just goes on and on and on.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, crusader for victims` rights.
Everyone, I want to alert you to a missing 17-year-old girl, Myrtle Beach, spring break. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Myrtle Beach police are desperate to find missing 17-year-old Brittanee Marie Drexel. Last seen with friends Saturday night around 8:00 p.m.
DAWN DREXEL, MOTHER OF MISSING TEEN BRITTANNE DREXEL: Something is very, very wrong. It`s not like my daughter to not call, even if it was a friend. We were not arguing. She would have called me. She would have called her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Brittanee was walking on the beach towards her hotel after visiting a friend at another hotel a half a mile away.
DREXEL: Right now, something is wrong. Something is wrong. I have a gut feeling that Brittanee is not safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although Brittanee left for the popular vacation spot without her mother`s permission, her mother says she and her daughter were not arguing about it and it`s unlike Brittannee to not call her.
DREXEL: It`s horrible because all I can think about is that she could be -- she could be laying dead somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are very worried about Brittanee`s safety with reports surfacing the teen suffers from depression.
DREXEL: My goal is to figure out what really happened and also to find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Aisha Khan with WTBW.
Aisha, it`s my understanding she went down to Myrtle Beach on spring break, her mom told her no, she went anyway. But she has no history of disappearing in the past. What do we know, Aisha?
AISHA KHAN, REPORTER, WBTW, COVERING STORY: Well, at this point, you know, when I talked to Drexel`s mother, Dawn Drexel, she said, you know, she talked to her daughter on Wednesday. You know, indeed, didn`t give her permission to go to Myrtle Beach.
I think she had requested, her mom, well, can I go to Myrtle Beach for spring break? And the mom said no. But she left Wednesday night apparently and kept contact with her mom up until Saturday and then come Saturday night, she gets a call from her friends, John Hunt out of North Carolina -- the mother gets a call from him saying, Brittanee is missing.
Now that call -- actually the initial call came from Brittanee`s boyfriend who had actually called John Hunt of North Carolina, saying I need to talk to you about something. This is in the middle of the night around Saturday and that`s when the news broke to Dawn Drexel.
GRACE: Aisha Khan, where was she last seen alive?
KHAN: According to police reports and friends that were hanging out with her, told her that, you know, we switched from one hotel to the next hotel, so there were originally at Bar Motel -- Bar Hotel off of Ocean Boulevard and then moved to Boardwalk Hotel and the friends are telling police that that`s the last time they had contact with her.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: She went back to this other hotel to see a friend she knew from her hometown, Rochester. Did he say she appeared there, she showed up?
KHAN: In the police reports, that`s what -- that`s the statement he gave to police, saying that was the last contact he had with her. And then she walked away and after that he never saw her.
GRACE: And he is cooperating with police? Yes, no?
KHAN: From what I know, Dawn Drexel told me this morning that when she talked to -- that the friend`s name is Peter. I`m not giving his last name right now. But his name is Peter Rosswick (ph), and she said that I talked to him on the phone this morning, saying, you know, I`m going to call the authorities.
He said I put him on the phone with the sheriff, gave him a different story, but then gave Dawn Drexel a different story and then turns out later on Saturday around 1:00 in the morning, he checks out. So that`s something, the mother is saying, you know, she feels a little fishy, though.
GRACE: We`ll be right back. We are taking your calls live. This little e17-year-old girl missing on spring break.
Rallies, candlelight vigils, other events taking place across the country. It`s National Crime Victims Rights Week. And the 25th anniversary of the Victims of Crime Act. The legislation allows funding and resources to ease the burden faced by victims, medical care, counseling, funerals.
Each year more than 33 million Americans victims of crime. Log on to the Office for Victims of Crime.
As we go to break, happy 70th birthday to South Carolina friend of the show, Diana. And happy 15th birthday to Powder Springs` star baseball player, Casey Flinch. Happy birthday, Casey.
And sympathy tonight to friends of the show, the family of Phyllis Murphy. After a brave fight for years with cancer, a loving mother, always had a smile on her face, she fought until the very end, and I know that tonight they are happy to have her in heaven.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends and family of missing teen Brittanee Drexel say they can`t understand how someone who always let them know of her whereabouts could suddenly vanish.
The call is what took Drexel`s mother by shock when she found out that her daughter couldn`t found, after she left their house in Rochester, New York, Wednesday night, to spend spring break in Myrtle Beach.
Those patrolling the beach say they are doing their best to keep an eye out for Brittanee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we haven`t had any leads, any luck. We`ve been going up to different patrons, doing pretty much everything, you know, we can do out here to make sure she`s not on the beach or if she is, we would have definitely found her by now.
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GRACE: Straight out to John Lucich, former investigators, author of "Cyber Lies." John, what do police need to be doing now? I`m very concerned after Aisha Khan reports that the last person to have seen her alive has changed his story?
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Absolutely. There`s a lot to do. I`m very upset to find out that a mother who says to the daughter you can`t go and then she goes and does nothing about that, doesn`t get right down there and go after her own daughter and bring her back is a problem.
But you need to start taking a look at the cell phone records of this young lady. You need to start taking the cell phone records of the young man who seemed to change his story according to the mother. And as well as everybody else.
In fact, I would like to see if there is some type of prior relationship with this young man before she went down there by taking a look at her home computer immediately.
GRACE: Straight out to John Hahn, a friend of the missing girl. He reported her missing.
Mr. Hahn, thank you for being with us. I understand that you`re in the military near there at Camp Lejeune, you got a call in the middle of the night from her family. You took care of reporting her missing. What can you tell me about the last person to have seen her alive, changing his story. Is that true?
(ON THE PHONE)
JOHN HAHN, FRIEND OF 17-YEAR-OLD BRITTANEE DREXEL, REPORTED HER MISSING: Yes, it is. Several different people throughout the two-day period that I was down there investigating, reported that he`s been changing his story. I don`t know him personally.
I think it`s very, very shady that somebody decides to make a 17-hour drive back to Rochester, New York at 2:00 in the morning. Leaving clothes, liquor, and a deposit back at the hotel.
GRACE: Mr. Hahn, I also find that extremely disturbing. When you say he changed his story, in what way did he change his story?
HAHN: He would change his story with small details, saying he saw her at this exact time he was doing this, this is why she left and then all of a sudden it was a different reason why she left. And then it was, you know, a half an hour difference and then the reason why he left was because he wanted to get back in time to be at school.
But, yes, he wanted to be back in time, why would you leave $100 deposit at the front desk of the hotel?
GRACE: Everybody, we are talking about a 17-year-old girl who goes to spring break at Myrtle Beach and then disappears into thin air.
Straight out to the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy, dear. I want to thank you for letting us watch your babies grow up on TV. We appreciate that so much. You`re like family.
GRACE: Thank you.
SHEEBA: OK. When are these girls going to learn you do not go anywhere by yourself? This makes me so angry when young lives are probably lost because they want to walk a half a mile, a quarter of a mile and they do not realize the danger. Apparently, her mother realized the danger and didn`t want her to go.
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you, Sheeba, after Natalee Holloway, you know, I`m going to keep the twins just locked up in their nursery until they go to college and then I`m going to drive them and drop them off in the front of the building.
To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, we can say why don`t they know better? They are just kids.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly, Nancy. They`re 17 years old and -- 17-year-olds are still adolescents. Their frontal cortex is not developed enough, their judgment isn`t good. And it was spring break. It was party time and they had the illusion of the world being their oyster.
GRACE: I want to quickly switch gears and give you the latest out of Tracy, California and the case of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu. And we will be joined by Dr. Joshua Perper. Take a listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s in jail. She can still see her little girl grow up. We don`t. We don`t get to see that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New details emerge in the case of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, who police alleged was brutally murdered by Sunday school teacher Melissa Huckaby.
In an attempt to avoid extreme public outrage, the judge in Huckaby`s murder trial has elected to order all the autopsy and toxicology reports sealed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sandra was like a daughter to me. I can`t imagine a mother doing this to a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge determined the results of those reports could infuriate the public and affect the entire case. During the brief hearing, the judge granted Huckaby`s request to delay entering a plea yet again. Another hearing on the case is scheduled for next month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandra Cantu`s father wasn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t get it. What`s so hard about saying guilty or not guilty in court? They have delayed even entering a plea?
First out to renowned doctor, chief medical examiner, Broward County, Dr. Joshua Perper, author of "When to Call the Doctor."
Dr. Perper, you probably can`t even count how many autopsies you have performed. Why would an autopsy be kept under seal? What could be so outrageous and so upsetting in the autopsy of this 8-year-old girl that the judge won`t even let the public find out the condition of the body or cause of death?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF M.E. OF BROWARD COUNTY, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, that`s an extremely unusual step taken by the judge. You know, in many, many cases, I did thousands, I didn`t encounter such a situation. Sometimes an autopsy results is sealed for valid reasons such as not interfering with the investigation, nor disclosing details of the autopsy, which the defendant which may confess can claim that he got them from the public domain.
But that`s certainly very unusual. And again, obviously, this child that it`s very probable that there was some sexual assault involved as well. But it seems to me that this was not really a valid reason to seal the case.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, as usual, you are correct. Dr. Perper, if you could estimate how many autopsies you have performed, what would that number be?
PERPER: It would be probably in the thousands, maybe 6,000, 7,000, maybe 10,000, even.
GRACE: To Sebastian Kunz with KNEW Radio, I understand she was calm, cool, and collected when she appeared in court?
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: A marked difference, Nancy, between the initial appearance a couple of weeks ago. We understand that she was able to smile at her public defender as she was speaking to the public defender and also was able to stare calmly at the judge. No tears in the court appearance on Friday.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Played with everybody here. You know, she went to help to make cookies over here and bake something over there and help clean somebody`s cupboard. We had to be here for all the kids, all the children, your children.
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GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our staffer on the story. Matt, what was the reason the judge kept the autopsy a secret?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, the judge gave three reasons. One was the public outrage. Another was the concern for Sandra Cantu`s family and what could be revealed in these documents could upset the family.
And then the third reason was the integrity of the case. They`re worried about it affecting the potential jury pool.
GRACE: And very quickly to the lawyers, Jack Ford, Mickey Sherman, Stacy Schneider.
Mickey Sherman, what`s so hard about saying not guilty? Is it that hard to come into court and say, not guilty? Do they have to wait another month before they utter two words at the podium?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": No big loss there. The idea is that everybody should be there at every critical stage of the proceeding. And obviously, someone made the judgment that she probably was not all there.
My bet is that she was drugged up and I think to save the integrity of the process and to make sure that there`s no appeal based on the fact that she was out of it, they postponed.
GRACE: Really? Because Sebastian Kunz with KNEW Radio says she was completely calm, cool, and collected, smiling at her lawyer.
SHERMAN: Did he interview her?
GRACE: . and at the judge, Stacy Schneider.
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So she`s different today. I think what the defense is doing for her by delaying is waiting for more of the discovery to come in so that they know how to pursue this case.
GRACE: OK. Jack.
SCHNEIDER: And the delay doesn`t hurt anybody.
GRACE: Jack, why not a plea? Can`t they even say "not guilty"?
FORD: It`s surprising. I understand what Mickey is saying, what`s Stacy is saying, but I`m the prosecutor saying this isn`t the trial, folks. This is just to start the ball rolling. Come on in. You`re not going to plea guilty. Nobody`s pleads guilty on the first appearance anyway.
GRACE: And so.
FORD: Let`s enter the plea and move on.
GRACE: . it begins, Jack Ford. And Jack Ford, I`m going to tell you, I`m reading this book and it`s good.
FORD: You know what? I think your viewers are going to find parts of you in my TV reporter in there, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, stop it.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Coleman Hinkefent, just 19, Coweta, Oklahoma. Dedicated to family, country and God. Lost his life with father by his bedside. Loved hockey, racing. Leaves behind parents, Eric and Belinda, sisters Erica and Ellie, brother, Emil, fiancee Jordan.
Coleman Hinkefent, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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