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Arlen Specter Switches Parties; Coping with the Swine Flu; American, Cuban Officials Break Silence; Six Olympic Athletes Test Positive for Doping; Report Questions Nation's Flu Readiness; RNC Chair to Specter: "Good Riddance"

Aired April 28, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Pushing forward on the path to pandemic. We're not there yet, but with swine flu now confirmed in seven countries, no place on Earth is immune.

So how do we push back? Is the U.S. doing everything it can and should do to stop the swine flu in its tracks? Well, a key U.S. senator is asking, and we're asking him.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live in Washington D.C. And you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

All right. We begin this hour with a seismic shift in U.S. politics. You heard it here first. Veteran Republican Senator Arlen Specter switching to the Democrats. It comes on day 99 of the Obama administration, and it could, depending on what happens in Minnesota, give the new president a filibuster-proof majority in Congress.

CNN senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, joins me now on how it all came about and what it all means. Lots of questions to ask, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kyra. And we're still digging on exactly how this came together. My colleague Dana Bash has been reporting about the efforts of the Democratic Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, and that he's been working literally for years to get Arlen Specter to switch.

But in terms of President Obama, it's fascinating that I'm told here at the White House that the president only learned about all this going on this morning, about 10:25.

You can see that photo. It was a couple minutes after the president learned. At 10:25 a.m., he was in the Oval Office, getting his economic daily brief. At that point I'm told by a senior administration official, a staffer walked in, interrupted, handed the president a note that simply said, quote, "Specter is announcing he's changing parties."

Then a few minutes later, as you can see in this official White House photo they've just released to CNN and others, that basically the president picked up the phone and called Arlen Specter and, according to this official, said, quote, "You have my full support, and we're thrilled to have you." Very interesting. The president was just learning about this. We're still digging on whether other administration officials in recent days have been negotiating and pushing and prodding behind the scenes.

But the most important part of this is what it means for President Obama's agenda. And it's very clear that right now you essentially have 58 Democrats in the Senate. If Al Franken is, in fact, elected and certified as the next Democratic senator from Minnesota, you have 59. And then Arlen Specter would be 60.

That magic number of 60 breaks all filibusters. It could mean that, beyond these first 100 days, Barack Obama's agenda could suddenly get smooth on the Hill in terms of the economic recovery, taxes, health care, education, energy, you name it. This could be a big, big blow to the Republicans, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes, I mean, let's just talk about that just for a second. The state of the Republican Party, its reputation, the power it's going to have. And could this create a domino effect?

HENRY: Well, it could. And as Dana was reporting this in the last hour, obviously a lot of people will be asking Republican moderates like Susan Collins, Olympia Snow of Maine whether they may be next and whether this is an Obama realignment, if you will.

We don't want to quite go that far yet, because it's just one move. And let's face it: Arlen Specter for a long time has been going against his Republican leadership, but for years and years has stayed in the Republican Party. I think that is the broad brush in the days ahead.

Beyond just what this means for President Obama's agenda here at the White House and on the Hill, it's about what does this mean for the Republican Party. They've just taken two beatings in two straight elections. They're still going through sort of an identity crisis of what's next: this fight between conservatives and moderates about how to push the party forward.

With someone like Arlen Specter saying he no longer feels at home in the Republican Party, this is going to add to the confusion on the Republican side about exactly what's next for them, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ed Henry there at the White House. Ed, thanks so much.

I want to get directly to Lisa Desjardins with CNN Radio. Because as I was watching this all unfold, I noticed there was Lisa, side by side with Arlen Specter, chasing him down the hall and actually getting the first bit of sound with him since the news -- since we broke the news here on CNN less than an hour ago. I'm going get to that interview in just a second.

But Lisa, can you tell me where you were and how you were able to gain access to Arlen Specter? LISA DESJARDINS, CNN RADIO CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Absolutely. I just ran up to his office. You know, on the other side of Arlen Specter in that shot is CNN producer Ted Barrett . So we honestly were double-teaming him there, Kyra.

At that moment, he had just told his constituents. They had shown up for a simple meeting with his staff. They weren't even sure they were going to meet the senator. Out comes Specter for what may be one of the most pivotal moments of his political career. They're there to see it. He makes the announcement. They burst into applause, as you've been reporting.

He walked from that crowd, and that's when he stopped commenting.

PHILLIPS: And here you are. Let's listen, Lisa. Let's listen to your interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: I got to tell you...

QUESTION: When did you reach this decision?

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, PENNSYLVANIA: I'll be very glad to answer your questions this afternoon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right, Lisa. We're working the audio there on that. We're going to get that fixed in just a second. Because obviously, this is all just coming in and all developing. But I want to make sure that we hear the interview that you were able to get, because as soon as that announcement was made, you were right there, talking to him.

As we get that ready, what was the first thing that you asked him? What was his response? Did he seem calm?

What -- all right, I think we've got it. Let's go ahead and take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPECTER: I'll be glad to answer all your questions.

BARRETT: These are your constituents right here. What do you say to them?

(APPLAUSE)

SPECTER: I don't have to say anything to them. They've said it to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right. We're trying to work out that -- that audio situation, Lisa. I'm sorry. We just want to get you full credit for how you were able to get it right away. Why don't you tell me what he told you and what you asked him?

DESJARDINS: You know, that other voice was Ted Barrett .

He essentially said, "I'm going save it for the news conference." He had a huge smile on his face, though, as you could see, and said, you know, "I'm not going to give you any information now." So it's probably OK that there's an audio problem. We kept trying to get him to, you know, tell us more, and he wouldn't. He is saving it for a news conference that has not been scheduled yet.

Kyra, I've got to tell you, I was fascinated by his constituents' reactions. These folks are here for an anti-poverty push. They are members, generally, of various religious faiths. Some of them are on the more pro-life, or anti-abortion end. Some of them are pro-choice. But they're all fighting poverty. And they came, and they burst into applause, as you heard.

One of the women said, "You know what? He's going to win now. And he has our support now."

And that's what he's going for. That kind of group, perhaps the Christian middle they were calling themselves. They weren't so sure about Arlen Specter standing outside his office. They say they're on board.

PHILLIPS: All right. Lisa Desjardins, great job. We will talk to you again as this continues to develop.

We're learning more, obviously, by the minute here in Washington D.C. We're going to hear from Gloria Borger, also coming up, another one of our key political analysts. And we'll be talking to Lisa, Ed Henry and Dana Bash, who first broke this story for us just less than an hour ago.

Well, we're watching several live events also on the swine flu front, with many more to come. Sometime this afternoon, the CDC is due to brief on the state of that outbreak and the U.S. response. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it begins.

And that response is the subject of a Senate hearing about to get under way on Capitol heel -- Capitol Hill, rather.

Here's the backdrop. At least 112 confirmed cases in seven countries from Mexico is where the outbreak began. Then it went to Israel, to New Zealand. Still, the only known swine flu deaths are in Mexico. Seven confirmed right now. And that's probably not the last number that we're going to hear.

The World Health Organization says that we're now at level 4 on the pandemic threat scale, indicating a real risk of human-to-human transition -- or transmission, rather.

And today more than half the confirmed swine flu infections are in the U.S., 64 according to the CDC, all of them relatively mild and traceable to travel in Mexico. Twenty-eight of those are in New York. And that's where we find CNN's Deb Feyerick -- Deb.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, you know, what we can tell you is just the breakdown: 64 cases in five different states. And the CDC released numbers this morning. The numbers were pretty interesting. We made a graphic. I don't know whether it's there for you.

But California, ten cases; Kansas, two cases; New York City, 45 cases now; Ohio, one case; Texas, six cases.

But shortly after that graphic came out, shortly after these numbers came out, then there were more reports of more cases in more states. Indiana says it now has one case. Massachusetts, they tested 26 people. They're still waiting for test results back from two people. And also Massachusetts -- I'm sorry, also North Carolina there's a possibility of cases there.

So this really is evolving, all of them still tied to travel in Mexico or contact with people who traveled to Mexico. So they're keeping a close eye on this. But it is developing. The number is changing, really, from hour to hour.

PHILLIPS: So Deb, are any states taking any unusual measures to deal with this?

FEYERICK: Well, one thing that's interesting is that North Carolina actually is now asking people to tell their doctors. If they travel to Mexico or California or Texas, they should notify their doctors. And then, obviously, if they develop symptoms, then they should definitely tell their doctors. But that's the way North Carolina is trying to track its people.

Hospitals across the country, though, they are all on high alert. And you have to keep in mind this is the end of the ordinary flu season. It's also the allergy season. So a lot more people going for testing. But -- so there's a lot of overlap with sort of different seasonal colds, basically.

PHILLIPS: All right. Deb Feyerick, thank you so much.

Now to Mexico, where confirmed swine flu infections and deaths are still few, but the suspected scope of the outbreak is huge, with fears and precautions to match.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is just south of the Mexican capital.

Karl, we're hearing that restaurants are actually the latest casualties right now?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. In Mexico City, the city authorities there have taken very stringent measures to try and stop people gathering in public places.

So over the weekend we had a lot of sports events either canceled or simply played behind closed doors with no crowds. Bars have been shut. Discotheques have been shut. Public gatherings have been closed, like the planned May the first, May Day celebrations. Those have already been canceled.

And yes, you're right: no more gatherings in restaurants; takeout food only. This morning we called into a coffee shop there, wanting to sit down, but we were told, no, you can only have, you know, a muffin and a coffee to take away. That is part of the latest measures, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Karl Penhaul, we'll keep talking to you. Appreciate it so much.

Well, do public health officials have what they need to keep the swine flu outbreak from going to another level? That's what lawmakers are trying to find out right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, it's been our top story of the day. Since 1966, Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania senator, has been a Republican, but today he has switched parties.

Dana Bash, joining us on the phone now. She's the one that broke this story.

Dana, can you hear me OK?

OK. We lost Dana Bash. We'll try to bring her back.

Of course, we're following that top story today along with the flu, the swine flu, and that is the fact that Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter has switched parties from Republican -- Republican to center [SIC], obviously, creating a shell-shocked feeling, as Dana Bash had told us, within the Republican Party.

We've got Dana Bash back on the phone.

Dana, I know you're there where Specter is actually meeting with Senate Republicans, as you put it, shell-shocked Senate Republicans. Can you give me a feel for the mood? Have you been able to talk with Arlen Specter?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Actually, he's getting into an elevator right now.

Senator Specter, do you want to have -- do you want to say anything live on CNN?

Hang on one second.

You're getting laughter, because he said he'll answer our questions this afternoon. Thank you, Senator. He's getting into an elevator, and the doors are closing.

He is going to have a press conference later this afternoon, Kyra, you know, giving more details about this momentous decision that he made. And I'll tell you, he was getting into an elevator, coming out of a meeting that he just had, possibly his last meeting that he just had with his Republican colleagues.

He addressed the weekly Republican Senate lunch. He was probably in there five or ten minutes max. Looks -- look and sounds like he said his piece and then he left. So to be a fly on that wall, Kyra, that certainly would have been a fascinating thing, because as you said, certainly most Republicans are shell-shocked.

There is, frankly, a lot of Republican anger in terms of the fact that he did this. In fact, the Republican National Committee chairman, Michael Steele, put out a biting -- a biting statement, Kyra, saying that Arlen Specter didn't do this for a philosophical reason. He did it for pure political reasons, because he knew he was going to lose his Republican primary coming up in Pennsylvania, because of the decisions and the votes he has taken, primarily voting for President Obama's stimulus package.

So that's what we have right here. And you know, very quickly, before I toss it back to you, Kyra, another question that we have been asking is what about the very few other moderate Republicans here on Capitol Hill in the Senate, specifically the two senators, Susan Collins and Olympia Snow from Maine.

They both told have told us in the past half an hour or so in the halls of the Capitol here that they certainly have been approached several times since they have been in office, not recently. But both of them say that they are sticking to their guns, and they are sticking to the Republican Party for now.

However, I'll tell you, in the case of Olympia Snow, she called this move by Arlen Specter devastating, because she said it is, from her perspective, another example of the fact that the Republican has moved -- the Republican Party has moved too far to the right, and they simply don't listen to moderate Republicans like herself, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's the biggest political story to rock Washington. It's happening today. And you broke the story. Dana Bash, we'll be talking to you more and continuing to follow up on what this means, not only for the Republican Party but also the Democratic Party, as Arlen Specter, a Republican since 1966, is now saying he's going to become a Democrat.

We'll have more after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So what do flu vaccines have to do with economic stimulus? Not much. And that's why lawmakers cut $870 million for pandemic prevention from the anti-recession bill that squeaked through Congress in February. Since then, most of that money, about $776 million, has been approved in a separate bill. And Congress seems eager to add more, even though the White House says it's not needed.

Now, here's something else that President Obama can check off his 100-day "to do" list: visit the FBI. He met with the director, Mueller, and he talked to bureau employees. The president was thanking them for their work and telling them they play a critical role keeping America strong and Americans safe. He also urged them to reject what he calls the false choice of security or ideals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is a long struggle against a determined adversary. We know that Al Qaeda is not constrained by a constitution or by allegiance to anything other than a hateful ideology and a determination to kill as many innocents as possible.

But what makes the United States of America so special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals, not just when it's easy, but when it's hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And of course, those words come as the White House considers releasing more memos about harsh interrogation methods from the Bush years.

And don't forget: tomorrow at 7 Eastern, CNN's national report card on President Obama's first 100 days. And yes, we are carrying his prime-time news conference at 8 p.m. Eastern.

We also want to know how you would grade his performance. Call us right now and leave us a message. Here's the number: 877-CNN-1246. It's a free call. Your comments might just end up on the air.

And behold an act of felony stupidity. That's what a former White House homeland security adviser calls yesterday's low-flying photo-op over New York City. Fran Townsend echoing what a lot of people are saying and thinking.

One of the president's 747s was striking poses over the Statue of Liberty with an F-16 escort. Well, the FAA tells the NYPD what was going on and says that the info should not be released to the public or the media.

Well, Manhattan, low-flying jet, no explanation. Are you kidding me? Even the mayor didn't even know.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK CITY: Why the Defense Department wanted to do a photo-op right around the site of the World Trade Center catastrophe defies imagination. Poor judgment would be a nice way to phrase it. But they did. They should know how sensitive people would be if they had low-flying planes down around the World Trade Center site.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the director of the White House military office, Louis Caldera, says it's his fault. President Obama said it was a mistake that won't happen again.

And doesn't Wall Street have enough to worry about? For a while investors thought about evacuating the exchange and also the market, definitely sensed the unease. Of course, many office workers did get out, fearful of a 9/11-type situation. Susan Lisovicz will have more on that next hour.

In State Department speak, it harkens back to the Cold War days as a top U.S. diplomat meeting with his Cuban counterpart in an undisclosed location right here in D.C. It's the latest signs that these two warriors of a bygone era may be trying to patch things up.

Here's our CNN's Jim Acosta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now that the U.S. has lifted restrictions making it easier for Cuban Americans to travel to Cuba and send more money to relatives on the island, the Obama administration says it's Havana's turn.

ROBERT WOOD, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: What we'd like to see are some steps to give some of the Cuban people that are enjoyed by other people in the hemisphere. We just have to see how the Cuban government decides to respond.

ACOSTA: For the second time in about two weeks, Cuba's chief diplomat in Washington and a top state department official have had rare face to face talks.

To figure out how to warm up this cold war relationship. The White House is looking for some kind of response to its initiative. So far, the discussions are sticking to areas of common interest such as Cuban migration and cultural exchanges.

WAYNE SMITH, FORMER CHIEF U.S. DIPLOMAT TO CUBA: It does show that the ice is at least breaking a crack.

ACOSTA: You have to start somewhere?

SMITH: You have to start somewhere, exactly.

ACOSTA: Wayne Smith, a former chief U.S. diplomat in Havana says it's a welcome sign after former Cuban leader Fidel Castro downplayed comments made by his brother and current president, Raul.

RAUL CASTRO, PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF CUBA (through translator): We are ready when they want to discuss everything.

ACOSTA: Within days, President Obama had called for the release of Cuba's federal prisoners. Then Fidel weighed in saying Raul's comments had been misinterpreted.

SMITH: The best way to make certain that no political prisoners are ever released is to say release your political prisoners and then we'll begin a dialogue. There won't be any dialogue. There won't be any release of prisoners. You need to engage, begin a dialogue.

ACOSTA: Recent polls not only show American approve of Mr. Obama's new approach on Cuba. So did Cuban Americans.

FERNAND AMANDI, CUBAN-AMERICAN POLLSTER: But for the Obama administration, the surprising and the good news, you might even say about this poll is that the Cuban community which has historically been seen as being loyal and sympathetic to the republican party has given President Obama 67 percent favorability rating.

ACOSTA: Advocates for improved relations say keep going and end the ban on travel to Cuba but Cuban-American leaders in Washington say no mas.

REP. LINCOLN DIAZ-BALART (R), FLORIDA: The goal of the advocates, mass American tourism with its billions of dollars a year in U.S. trade financing so that the U.S. taxpayer ultimately bails out and bank rolls Fidel Castro.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Jim Acosta, you say no mas. How about que mas, you know? How serious could these talks be? What could happen?

ACOSTA: Well, the White House and the State Department are very cautious. They want to make sure that people don't get overly revved up about this. I would describe what happened yesterday as the safe lunch. You know, they're just getting going here. And we do know it was a lunch, because it was at a restaurant and not at an undisclosed location, as Robert Wood over at the State Department put it.

But this is -- this is interesting. It may not be revolutionary just yet, but it is moving the goal post forward.

And we're talking about all these 100 days measures from President Obama. This is one of the most popular things he's done in his first 100 days. Polls are through the roof almost on this idea of normalizing relations with Cuba. And despite all of that, the White House is saying slow down. Not so fast. As my grandmother used to say, my Cuban grandmother used to say, "perete" (ph), slow down.

PHILLIPS: Perete (ph), perete (ph). I love it.

ACOSTA: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're talking 50 years, OK, in a pretty -- an isolated relationship. Would you say that this is the closest Cuba and U.S. have come in 50 years to something really developing here? And if so, what could it mean?

ACOSTA: When Raul Castro said just the other day, "We're willing to talk about everything," that is something we have not heard in decades. And so this is something approaching the sort of thing we haven't seen in decades.

One thing that we should also note is that there are plenty of people coming out of the woodwork saying, "Keep going forward. Keep going forward, President Obama." Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, the former lieutenant governor of Maryland, her father, Robert Kennedy, used to say that it was un- American that Americans couldn't travel to Cuba. And so she's one of many Democrats urging the White House to revisit this idea of lifting the travel ban and letting Americans travel to Cuba.

PHILLIPS: And a lot of people saying, "OK, why now?" Well, a number of people saying it's the diversity factor. That Barack Obama came in there. That Hugo Chavez and the Castros feel a connection to him, because of the issue of diversity. You saw this handshake between Obama and Hugo Chavez that everybody was talking about.

How much do you think that's playing a factor? That they feel, OK, he's going to understand us, because in many ways we are connected through diversity?

ACOSTA: Well, a lot of this is not totally new. Fidel Castro and President Clinton shook hands in 2000 at the United Nations. And yes...

PHILLIPS: People went crazy.

ACOSTA: They did, yes. They went a little ballistic. But there was that handshake down at the Summit of the Americas between President Obama and Hugo Chavez. And he was slammed on the right for doing this.

And I think, politically speaking, the White House said, "OK, you know, there's only so far we can go here so fast."

But this -- this development is very popular in Latin America. Latin Americans say it's not Cuba who's isolated on this issue. It's the United States.

Just recently the United Nations had a vote on the embargo against Cuba. Only three nations voted in favor of that embargo: United States, Israel, and Pilau.

So what the nations of Latin America are saying is that the United States, it's time to move the ball forward. Cuba does not pose a threat, national security threat to the United States. Do something different here. And the White House at this point is seizing that moment.

PHILLIPS: Jim Acosta, thanks so much.

ACOSTA: You bet.

PHILLIPS: Well, breaking the ice with Cuba, just part of President Obama's first 100 days. Remember CNN's national report card, it begins tomorrow night, 7 Eastern. It's going to include his prime-time news conference an hour later. We're dying to know what you think about his performance.

Call us right now. I don't know if we're dying to know. That's a little much, huh, Jim? But we really do want to know. ACOSTA: I think we want to know. Yes. Report cards are good.

PHILLIPS: Yes, they are. We remember our report card.

ACOSTA: So...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

Leave us a message. Here the phone number: 877-CNN-1246. Love to hear your comments. We'll air some tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa in a hearing right now that he actually called himself. He wants to make sure that public health officials have the tools that they need to deal with the swine flu outbreak. We're keeping a close eye on that.

We've also heard that Senator Specter will soon enter that room, possibly. He's on that subcommittee. Plus, we're going to get a briefing from the White House within the hour. Swine flu and Senator Specter's party switch sure to be top questions. We're following both for you right now.

And Texas and other parts of the country are likely to get another soaking today. Let's bring in meteorologist Chad Myers. We've got other news on that front as well.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right. Hard lessons learned from the past. What the 1918 flu pandemic could tell us about the swine flu outbreak.

And more on our breaking news, Senator Specter's party switch. As I mentioned, Gloria Borger right here next to me. We're working all kinds of various sources. She's going to join me coming up right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you can still feel the shock waves here in Washington. Longtime Republican Senator Arlen Specter turning his back on a party that he feels has turned its back on him and moderates like him. Specter joining the Democrats, whom he joined most recently to pass President Obama's economic stimulus bill. He'll be the 59th senator to caucus with the Democrats. Now, if Al Franken wins his Senate runoff court case in Minnesota, the Dems will have 60, a filibuster-proof majority.

Specter says that he plans a news conference sometime this afternoon. We will take that live, of course. In the meantime, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger joining us now with the fallout. OK, we kind of laid out nuts and bolts. Tell me, what does this mean for Democrats, and what does this mean for Republicans? GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, this is really good news for Democrats, because as you just pointed out, if they get these two seats, they reach that magic 60. Now, we should point out that Democrats don't always vote as a monolith, that the president will have problems with Democrats in his own party. But it's still better to have a filibuster-proof majority if you can get it. So, this is very big news. It's bad news for Republicans.

PHILLIPS: Oh, well, let me -- all right, we'll get to bad news for Republicans in a minute. You say, you know, the magic 60. OK, tell voters, tell, you know, Joe Smith in Little Town, Arkansas, tell, you know, my mom in San Diego, California, you know, what does this mean on policy issues?

BORGER: You can hold up any piece of legislation in the Senate that you want if you -- if the majority can't get 60 votes. It's called a filibuster. But you can talk it to death. And if the majority can stop you from talking when they get to that magic 60 number, cut off debate and have a vote. So, that's a very, very important number for this president.

But, you know, this is bad, as I was just saying, for the Republicans. Because, of course, they can't afford to lose a senator. They have right now, according to the latest "Washington Post"/ABC News poll, about one in five voters in this country call themselves Republicans. So, the party seems to be shrinking rather than growing.

And what you're going to hear Arlen Specter talk about later today is how he feels in fact that his state of Pennsylvania, in which saw huge Democratic gains in voter registration, 200,000 Republicans switch parties in the state of Pennsylvania in the last election, he sees that reflected in his own state. So, this is survival for him.

PHILLIPS: And considering how big of news this is, could we see a domino effect? Could we see other key Republicans -- oh, well, you know, I kind of agreed with him, and he's making the move. Maybe I should make the move, too.

BORGER: Well, I know Dana Bash is -- you know, the group of moderate Republicans in the Senate seems to grow smaller and smaller each year. And I know Dana Bash has been cornering people on Capitol Hill, such as Olympia Snowe of Maine. Senator Susan Collins of Maine, another moderate Republican who voted along with Snowe and Senator Specter for the stimulus package. She just won re-election. So, the question would be Olympia Snowe. And we don't see any indication of that.

But, you know, I think, look, this has happened in the past with Senator Jim Jeffords switching parties. And this is, as I say, a matter of political survival for Arlen Specter, who by the way, began his career as a Democrat.

PHILLIPS: Oh, interesting. All right, let's talk...

BORGER: He did.

PHILLIPS: Oh. Began...

BORGER: Coming full circle here.

PHILLIPS: OK.

BORGER: Coming full circle. He's always been a moderate Republican. He's a very independent thinker. He has always been pro- choice for example. He was for stem-cell research. He voted with Barack Obama on the stimulus package. He's got a state that's in big economic trouble right now.

So, politically, he's always kind of been his own man, not very dependable for Republicans, not very dependable for Democrats. I don't know that Democrats are going to be able to depend on him for every vote, but they're sure happy they're going to get him.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're just, I'm being told, hearing from Bob Casey now, the other senator of Pennsylvania. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB CASEY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: ... first attempt, but -- no, but this is a -- I think it's good news that President Obama's priorities this year are going to have more support than they would have otherwise. It will make it more likely that the agenda that he has set forth for the country to get the economy moving and to focus on issues like health care, energy and education will have -- will now have a greater chance of moving forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: OK, which leads back to my question: What does this mean for, you know, each family, individual that's struggling for the health care, struggling to get a job in this bad economy, you know, waiting on things to pass, which, as we know, takes forever. How much influence could this shift make on...

BORGER: It could. It could have a large influence. And don't forget, Senator Specter is up for re-election right now. He's got a very, very tough race. So, if he survives politically as a Democrat, he's going to owe the Democrats something. Let's see whether they give him some seniority on their committees. Let's see whether they clear the Democratic field for him as he faces re-election. Now, there are other people who are interested on the Democratic side in that Senate seat.

So, let's see how beholden Senator Specter is going to be to President Obama and to, of course, Harry Reid, who seems to be the key person in talking him into this shift. And that could well affect how he's going to vote. You know, this is politics -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You know, and anything can happen in politics, which leads me -- tell me if this is a crazy question. But he started his career as a Democrat. He went to -- he became a Republican. Now he's going back to being a Democrat.

BORGER: Right.

PHILLIPS: Could he decide, "Hmm, still don't like it" again? I'm going to go back to being a Republican?

BORGER: People who know Arlen Specter wouldn't rule anything out, but I don't think so. I don't think so, not with -- he's getting on in years.

PHILLIPS: OK.

BORGER: You know, he's a cancer survivor. You know, this is somebody whose life has been serving in the Senate. And again, I think he wants to win his Senate race. And I think at least on some issues, he finds himself and his constituents -- this is really important. The people who are going to vote for him in the state of Pennsylvania are more aligned with the Democrats.

And we have some polls that show that when he runs as a Democrat, he runs a lot better than when he runs as a Republican. He was facing a very tough primary in the state of Pennsylvania. He was losing in the polls to a conservative Republican candidate there. So, this makes his life politically a little bit easier and a little bit more likely that he would get re-elected.

PHILLIPS: All right, I'm hearing that we are going to hear from Specter at 2:15 Eastern time now. We're standing by for that. Also, we're trying to get RNC Chair Michael Steele on the phone with us. If you don't mind hanging with me for a second, I would love for you to get in on that interview with me. Fabulous. Gloria Borger, thank you so much.

And real quickly, we've got some news coming to us from the Associated Press. We're hearing that the International Olympics Committee is reporting that six Olympic athletes found positive for doping in retesting of Beijing samples. We're following that for you and trying to find out exactly what they were tested positive for and who those athletes are. We're working that story.

Now, back to our swine flu. Some worry that this flu outbreak has the hallmarks of a pandemic. But others say it may not be much worse than the regular flu. So, such divergent perspectives made us want to take a look at the 1918 flu pandemic, and that's where our Josh Levs comes in with some of the facts. Josh, school us.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Kyra.

I know, crazy busy news day here. But I just want to jump in with this. It's really interesting. People keep talking about that 1918 pandemic. Check it out. You can actually see photos of it right here online. I just pulled up one of them on the touch screen. You can see all these beds, people being taken care of.

And the reason is that the government itself actually has a Web site that the government runs that's right here, all about what they're calling "The Great Pandemic." And they talk about it. Want to give you a couple little pieces of information for some facts. First of all, the number of people we were talking about back then, estimates between 30 and 50 million people killed, an estimated 675,000 Americans. It also has this, which is really interesting. Check out this map here. Now, at first, you might think this is just a map with lines. But this is the actual map from way back then, 1918, when they found how it was spreading over a matter of weeks. All you need to know looking at this, if it has lines, it got there.

And that's true for the entire country. Well, compare that to what's going on today. Certainly no comparison at this point. So, when you hear about that pandemic, understand they're talking about lessons to be drawn from it. Right now at CNN.com, you can see this map and what is known so far about confirmed cases in various parts of the world. We'll trace you through all sorts of information from North America and other parts of the world, too, there.

So, Kyra, that's just a basic idea. Good Web site to get information for context on that pandemic.

PHILLIPS: All right, so, Josh, we're also hearing a lot from our iReporters as well about the swine flu. What are they saying?

LEVS: Big time. Yes, you know, what's interesting, we actually got this one -- I'll show you here -- of someone walking through the streets of Mexico City. Look at what everyone's wearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELVIN FRANCISQUINI, CNN IREPORTER: So, we're all touring downtown Mexico City. Here's my compadre from Oaxaca. And as you look at other people, we're all wearing this blue thing because people are dying. And it's pretty bad. Everyone's wearing it, so -- the famous (INAUDIBLE). We've got to go now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEVS: It's an interesting slice of life I hadn't seen yet, just walking down the street, a major touristy area. Everyone's got their masks. Not that many people out. You can see how it's impacting that area.

Finally, one that's been getting a lot of traffic on ireport.com today. There's one of our iReporters saying we all need to come down a little, just take basic precautions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA FAZLI, CNN IREPORTER: There is no reason for alarm, just some concern, and to take some easy precautions, such as just using a little bit of hand sanitizer. Just make sure that you put a little dab right there on your hands. Get it all around. Interlace it in your fingers and make sure you do get your fingertips like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEVS: And people responding to that. Lots of people weighing in at iReport.com. We've got discussions going on all our pages, including the brand-new CNN NEWSROOM blog, Kyra, where everyone gets to learn what you've been up to, some of the cool things that brought you to Washington. It's so cool that I'll that as a tease, CNN NEWSROOM blog.

PHILLIPS: Appreciate it. Thanks, Josh.

LEVS: You've got it.

PHILLIPS: All right, you've been asking plenty of questions about the swine flu. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta trying to answer them online at CNN.com. There you can find out which vaccines might offer protection and how long it takes for symptoms to appear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The swine flu outbreak has triggered alarm around the country and the world. But this isn't the first time that the U.S. has faced a swine flu scare. And that raises this question: Are we better prepared this time? CNN's Tom Foreman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe brought it home from the office. He gave it to Betty and one of his kids.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back in 1976, a swine flu scare spurred announcements on TV and calls for nationwide vaccinations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get a shot of protection. The swine flu shots.

FOREMAN: But a congressional report last fall says more than 30 years later, we're still not ready.

The government wants enough vaccine developed and available to inoculate all 300 million citizens in six months for any kind of flu. But at best, current American production might protect one in five.

At the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, Dr. Michael Osterholm.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: We have made investments in this country. In fact, the United States has made more investments in influenza vaccine work than any other country in the world. But, at the same time, it's still a long way from having a modern, efficient and really a very effective influenza manufacturing infrastructure available.

FOREMAN: The report finds multiple problems. Vaccine production techniques are old and slow. With little profit in developing new ones, American industry shows little interest. And while foreign producers could help, in a pandemic, they'd likely keep their vaccine at home. The U.S. government could spend more money developing drugs called adjuvants that stretch vaccine supplies. Europe is ahead of us on that. And in times like this, everyone likes such ideas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to be aggressive.

FOREMAN (on camera): But when the crisis passes, governments, industry and the public lose interest quickly.

In 2006, an avian flu scare had governments worldwide vowing to stockpile enough Tamiflu, a drug that treats flu symptoms, not even a vaccine. And yet shortages remain.

OSTERHOLM: If this virus does result in a human pandemic in the next weeks and months, we are going to be in a world that is going to need a lot of vaccine that it's not going to have.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Keeping them honest, we were warned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Swine flu? Man, I'm too fast for that to catch me.

FOREMAN: Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, you can still feel the shock waves here in Washington. It was our top story today, longtime Republican Senator Arlen Specter turning his back on his Republican Party, a party he had been part of for decades, and going Democrat. Reaction within the Republican Party, our Dana Bash said "shell shocked" was the feeling.

I can imagine what RNC Chair Michael Steele is feeling. He's joining me by phone in Irving, Texas.

Chairman, let me ask you, are you surprised? Are you shocked?

MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE (via telephone): No, I'm not, to be honest with you. No, I'm not. I had a feeling. I mean, he had very -- Senator Specter had very few options at this point. He had stepped on the toes of a lot of Republicans with his vote to on the stimulus bill, which was a core principle for us in terms of our views on economics.

And you know, admittedly, a lot of Republicans weren't happy about the end of the Bush administration in terms of putting in motion this bailout process. But to have the senator confirm that, really, you know, made it tough. And so, I think he saw that tough primary challenges coming ahead for him. I think he also saw a tough re- election in a general election.

And to me, this was not a question of, oh, gee, all of a sudden I found principles as a Democrat. This is about political survival, and this is about, you know, taking advantage of an opportunity and, you know, moving a little bit closer to where he's ideologically planted. That's perfectly fine. But, you know, from our perspective, I think this is less about, you know, some philosophical issue as it is more of a political survivor issue.

PHILLIPS: Well, speaking of political survival, I mean, how is this going to impact the Republican Party?

STEELE: Well, It has a big impact. There's no doubt about it. I mean, certainly in the Senate, this puts the Democrats one step closer to 60 votes, which is a huge problem, not for the party per se but for the country. To give one party control absolutely without the appropriate checks and balance in the Senate is problematic.

So, I think the senator contributing to that speaks volumes for me. You know, and the fact that he would say that, you know, President Obama's spending package, you know, the $780 billion in the stimulus and the budget made him realize he's a Democrat. Well, if spending the hard-earned dollars of the American people and redistributing their wealth and moving towards a collectivist socialist approach to government, if that helps you realize you're a Democrat, then, you know, good riddance.

PHILLIPS: Chairman, if you don't mind, Gloria Borger has been her talking with me throughout the afternoon about this story. I'd love to bring her in on this interview.

STEELE: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Gloria, I know you've got questions.

STEELE: Hey, Gloria.

BORGER: How are you?

STEELE: I'm good.

BORGER: Mr. Chairman, I guess the question the question is, could you have stopped Arlen Specter from leaving the party if you had said to him, for example, we're not going have a Republican primary challenger to you. You're well known in the state. You might have a shot of getting elected in a state that's become more Democratic. Why didn't you clear the field for him to keep him from switching parties if you say he's doing it out of political survival?

STEELE: Well, I think that, you know, this -- the party doesn't operate that way. And as I said when this issue first arose -- and I was a former state chairman -- the national party doesn't stick its nose in and help direct outcomes. The state party ultimately working with the candidate, in this case, Senator Specter, would work through whatever challenges they may face in the primary. The state chairman had made it very clear that they were going to let that process unfold.

And Senator Specter, if he's challenged, would respond accordingly and have to address and account, you know, to the Republican base in the state for his votes. Look, you can tweak my nose and you can step on my toes and you can pull my hair. At some point, enough is going to be enough. And I think for a lot of Republicans, particularly the core base of the party in Pennsylvania, they had reached that threshold. So, it would ultimately be for them to decide.

So, the idea of clearing the decks -- and I know the Senatorial committee made it very clear that they were going to support Arlen Specter and endorse him. Senator Cornyn went out on the line for this man. And for the senator to effectively flip the bird back to Senator Cornyn and the Republican Senate leadership, the team that stood by him, who went to the bat for him in 2004 to save his hide, to me is not only disrespectful. It's just downright rude. I'm sure his mama didn't raise him this way. And it's a shame that he's behaving this way today.

BORGER: Did he give you a heads up on this?

STEELE: No, not at all, which is another form of disrespect that I don't countenance. I mean, you know, at least give me a call or give the party leadership a call and let us know, this is what I'm thinking, this is where I'm going, so that, you know, it can be repaired.

Now, you know, I'm not one to be caught flat-footed about these things. You know, you get on your toes, and you respond as quickly as you can. But, again, I think it shows a lack of respect for a party that he has pushed to the edge in terms of his votes and in terms of the arguments he's made in support of this administration. And I think that right now, he is where he belongs, and if the Democrats don't beat him in the primary, we'll take care of him from the general.

PHILLIPS: And, Chairman, as we're talking to you, I just want to mention to our viewers that we're watching live coverage now of Arlen Specter. He's actually talking about the swine flu. It's an emergency hearing that Tom Harkin called for. That's what he's talking about right now.

Obviously, if this somehow comes up, which I doubt, within this hearing, we will take it live because he's -- we're told that he's going to hold a news conference up at 2:15 Eastern time. But let me ask you, Chairman, while I have you, are you concerned that there could be more Arlen Specters? That he's not the first one that's going to jump ship right now in a really tough time for the Republican Party and, quite frankly, a time where President Barack Obama and the Democratic administration is really on a roll with constituents.

STEELE: Well, I'm sure the grass looks greener to a lot of folks like Arlen Specter out there, but my responsibility and my core belief still remains that the party -- the Republican Party has something to offer the American people. Part of the rebuilding that I'm helping us grow through now with our state parties, which is why I'm here in Texas on a regional conversation with state parties here, is to talk about how we communicate more effectively and take this message of ownership, empowerment and opportunity, not wealth redistribution and the growth of government, directly to the American people to give them that choice. I doubt that there are more Arlen Specters out there who are willing to, you know, in elected office are willing to jump parties. For what? They're jumping parties for what? You've got to tell me, honestly, that part of your core belief system, if you move from Republican to Democrat, is that you're now buying into this idea that the government knows best. And I just don't see that in the rank-and- file elected officials of our party.

BORGER: But Mr. Chairman, just bottom line, given the fact of the change in registrations in Pennsylvania, doesn't this make it more likely -- Arlen Specter is personally popular in Pennsylvania. He runs as a Democrat. Doesn't this make it a lot more likely that you will lose that Senate seat?

STEELE: Well, not necessarily. You're making a lot of assumptions there. Number one is that he's going to survive a Democrat primary. Now, let me get this straight. Arlen Specter, the former Republican, decides today, oh, magically, now I'm a Democrat. And every Democrat in the state is going to go, oh, my gosh, thank you, hallelujah, our savior has come?

I don't think so. And I think the reality of it is, he's now got to go to that Democrat base, just as he would have to go in a Republican base, and explain himself and to make his case and to fend off any challenges in a Democrat primary. I seriously doubt that he's going to have a scot-free ride to the nomination on the Democratic side, no matter what kind of deal the trial lawyers and the Democratic Party have made.

Governor Rendell may not now run for the U.S. Senate, but I know of a number of congressman who will look at that seat now. This is an open primary seat for the Democrats. I love it. And we're going to have a strong Republican candidate on our side, and I love that even more. And if Senator Specter survives into the fall, get ready to go to the mat, baby, because we're coming after you and we're taking you out.

PHILLIPS: All right, you know, you're always full of those interesting ways of words. Michael Steele, RNC chair, I'm going to take advantage of this if you don't mind.

STEELE: Sure.

PHILLIPS: One more question...

STEELE: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Because Arlen Specter just left the emergency meeting that Tom Harkin called for on this swine flu. And I want to ask you this: You know, here we are in this situation. I'm going to switch gears just for a minute, talking about the swine flu. You know, it was Republicans that voted against the stimulus money for a flu pandemic. We're talking $870 million for pandemic flu preparedness. You guys voted it out of the package. Are you regretting that?

STEELE: Oh, please. Stop it with that. Did we know this at the time of the vote? Now, again, as yourself, when these bills, when this package of spending was presented to the Congress and the American people, what was the presentation that was given by this administration? This was to create jobs. This was to restore our economy. It had nothing to do with pandemic flus. It had nothing to do with how pigs, why pigs stink. It had nothing to do with any of the stuff that we spent money on.

So now, don't come back and make this link, you know, six months after the fact, that, oh, see, you guys voted against this, and this is what the money was going to be spent for. No one knew what that was.

PHILLIPS: Well, Republicans are saying, hey, look at the Democrats. They have all these vacant positions right now in HHS, DHS, CDC...

STEELE: Yes. That's a priority.

PHILLIPS: ... there's no surgeon general. It's their fault that we don't have money and we don't know how to react to this flu pandemic. So, I think it's Democrats and Republicans pointing the finger at each other, sir.

STEELE: And that's what the American people don't want. We don't want to get into a situation where we're pointing fingers back and forth at each other on, well, you don't have people in place or, well, you voted against the money. What we want to say is, what is the administration going to do about it now?

And again, you cannot, in my view, make this link, you know, after the fact, that, oh, see, gee, good thing we voted for this money. But that's not why -- it has nothing to do with creating a job six months ago when this whole crisis situation was really kicking off. This bill was supposed to be towards giving the person, the small business owner who's about to go out of business, a fighting chance to survive. It had nothing to do with some of the other things that we're now looking at.

So, I'm not going to sit here and accept that connection. Is the money there? Yes, the money would have been there whether the Congress voted for it six months ago or not, because we have an emergency situation, and as in all cases, Congress will find a way to fund the needs of the people at the time we're in a crisis situation.

PHILLIPS: Well, I think that's the bottom line, Chairman, is that, you know, why is it that voters always have to wait for when it becomes a crisis? I think voters just want to know whether it's a pandemic, whether it's flooding in New Orleans, whether...

STEELE: Absolutely. But it's the priorities. It's priorities. And at the time, the priority was stabilizing the economy and creating jobs. Now the priority is dealing with what is potentially a very serious health issue. And the government, elected officials have a responsibility to step up and help the state work through this thing. So, it's a matter of priorities. And tomorrow, next week, three weeks from now, three months from now, the priority may be something different because we don't know what tomorrow holds. We can only deal with the here and now. And that's what we were dealing with at the time these spending bills were put before the Congress. And Republicans made a legitimate argument that the money that was being allocated, the trillions of dollars that were being spent, had very little to do with job creation and wealth preservation and everything to do with a checklist of spending that the Democrats wanted to work their way through.

PHILLIPS: RNC Chairman Michael Steele, appreciate your time today.

STEELE: You got it.