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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Outbreak Spreading; Fighting Swine flu; Supreme Court Vacancy; State of Emergency; Deadly Outbreak
Aired May 01, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf. Good evening, everybody.
The global swine flu epidemic continues to spread, but there are some indications the virus is not as lethal as some previous flu strains. We'll have a live report for you from the Centers for Disease Control. A top CDC official joins us as well.
Also Supreme Court Justice David Souter announcing his retirement. That gives President Obama his first opportunity to make an appointment to the high court. Tonight we'll examine the possible candidates for that vacancy and the potential impact on the Supreme Court, itself.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, whose job it is to protect our sovereignty, today bringing my name into a conversation indirectly criticizing me for defending our sovereignty. We'll tell you what she said, what she meant, and what it means.
We begin tonight with the spreading swine flu outbreak in this country and around the world. The number of cases is rising but there have been no more deaths. The Centers for Disease Control said this virus appears not to have the genetic structure of the flu that killed tens of millions of people in 1918 nor the recent bird flu in Asia.
But health officials are taking no chances. A United Airlines flight for example from Germany to Washington, D.C. was diverted to Boston -- that after a passenger became ill -- Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of cases continues to rise. Eight states added to the list on Friday joining 11 others for a total of 19 states with 141 people. President Obama, after receiving a cabinet update, said federal agencies are positioned to handle the outbreak.
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm optimistic that we're going to be able to manage this effectively but we still have more work to do.
SYLVESTER: That work includes ensuring the nation has an adequate stockpile of antiviral medicine and developing clear guidelines for school closings and the rush is on to develop a vaccine.
DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, CDC: We do expect to see more cases. We expect to see more states. That won't be a surprise at all. We're looking and we're finding where we look.
SYLVESTER: Health officials say they're learning more about the virus by studying its genetic sequence and comparing it to deadly flu viruses of the past -- some good news there.
NANCY COX, NATL. CTR. IMMUNIZATION & RESP. DISEASES: We do not see the markers for virulents that we're seeing in the 1918 virus.
SYLVESTER: Still, the U.S. government has ordered 13 million more units of antiviral medicine that has been effective as a treatment if used early on.
DR. MITCHELL COHEN, CDC: One of our recommendations is that people who have this infection be treated with an anti-viral drug that's susceptible to, within the first 24 to 48 hours.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And as you mentioned, Lou, this afternoon a plane headed from Germany to the Washington, D.C. area was diverted. It landed in Boston after one of the passengers came down with flu-like symptoms. That female passenger was taken off the plane and then taken to the hospital -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Outside the United States and Mexico the World Health Organization today reported more confirmed cases of swine flu. Canada now has 34 cases all said to be mild according to the WHO. Spain has 13 cases. Another 84 cases there are now under investigation. The United Kingdom, eight confirmed cases, 230 suspected cases.
In France the government confirmed two cases of swine flu, the first in France. Meanwhile, communist China is reporting its first case in Hong Kong. The patient, a Mexican citizen, who is the first confirmed swine flu case in Asia.
Joining me now for the very latest on this outbreak and what's being done to fight it, our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay had an exclusive at the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta and, Sanjay, what did you find out about the efforts to both develop a vaccine and a strategy and the scale of this epidemic at this point?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know a lot of this has happened just over the last week, Wolf. As you know, they have a sort of a nerve center of the CDC, the emergency operations control, where they do surveillance. As cases come in they track them trying to figure out where they're happening and what can be done about it.
But as much as that is obviously important, a thing that was coming up over and over again today was what you were talking about, Lou. If this gets worse and starts to spiral out of control are we going to have a vaccine and what's being done about that? You know as much I've been asking that question over the last week I hadn't gotten a good answer, but finally I got something that I think is worth you seeing from Mike Shaw, who directs the labs that oversee this sort of thing at the CDC. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SHAW, LAB DIRECTOR, CDC: We're all learning right now. We're doing the best we can as fast as we can, which is the message I guess we really want to get out. You know we're working day and night trying to get this done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, Lou, you know it's -- that was the first time they actually talked about the fact that they are moving forward with trying to develop a vaccine. No one would actually commit one way or the other yet, so possibly some encouraging news along those lines, Lou.
DOBBS: And Sanjay, are there other efforts taking place amongst the world, WHO, itself, other nations trying to develop a vaccine? Or do we have an indication yet as to whether that is the case?
GUPTA: Well, you know, a lot of this seems to be coming out of here at the CDC. Part of the way this process works is they find a sort of dominant strain among the various strains of the H1N1 or swine flu and then they send that on to the manufacturers. It takes about a month to come up with the strain.
The manufacturers, they develop a test dose, test for the safety. You remember back in 1976 they had a lot of side effects from a flu vaccine. They don't want that to happen again. If the safety tests come back, then they sort of amp up the production, but that can take several months. And I think that's part of the issue here, Lou.
DOBBS: Well let's hope that this swine flu turns out to be as -- at least as it appears in the United States and other countries outside of Mexico to be less virulent than we first -- we first feared.
GUPTA: It looks like that's probably true, Lou. You know I mean even when look at those 150 or so deaths in Mexico where I was, it was sort of the question of what's -- that's the numerator. What's the denominator? How many people had you know mild illness -- never went to go see their doctor? Based on what we were seeing down there that could have been thousands and thousands, which is good news if you think about it because that means the fatality rate is much, much lower than I think as you mentioned was originally thought.
DOBBS: Sanjay thanks a lot. Appreciate it -- Dr. Sanjay Gupta bringing us up to date from the Centers for Disease Control.
Still ahead here, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton takes a swipe at me apparently because I take a stand on an issue that concerns every American -- that is sovereignty. We'll be talking about that and an unexpected retirement on the Supreme Court sparking a heated debate about who should be our next Supreme Court justice. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Intense speculation about just who President Obama will appoint to the Supreme Court to replace retiring Justice David Souter -- Justice Souter votes with the liberal bloc of the court. President Obama said he wants Justice Souter's replacement to empathize, as he put it, with disadvantaged Americans. Ed Henry has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The news was broken by the president, himself.
OBAMA: This is kind of cool.
HENRY: Interrupting the press secretary's daily briefing in progress.
OBAMA: I just got off the telephone with Justice Souter. And so I would like to say a few words about his decision to retire from the Supreme Court.
HENRY: The phone call and then formal letter from Justice David Souter, stark reminders elections do matter. The former constitutional law professor now has the power to shape the high court.
OBAMA: I will seek somebody with a sharp and independent mind and a record of excellence and integrity. I will seek someone who understands the justice isn't about some abstract legal theory or footnote in a case book. It is also about how our laws affect the daily realities of people's lives, whether they can make a living and care for their families.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: (INAUDIBLE)
HENRY: The flashpoint in any confirmation battle is likely to be over abortion. Asked about the issue at this week's primetime news conference the president tried to stake out a middle ground.
OBAMA: I believe that women should have the right to choose. But I think that the most important thing we can do to tamp down some of the anger surrounding this issue is to focus on those areas that we can agree on.
HENRY: But Senator Arlen Specter's party switch this week could give the president a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and smooth passage of a liberal pick. While speculation is building about potential nominees, White House aides stress it's early and a veteran of the Bush selection process says be careful with predictions.
RACHEL BRAND, BUSH ADM. JUSTICE OFFICIAL: I remember during the Roberts and the (INAUDIBLE) process there was a short list published in the newspaper with names on them that I had barely heard of and I knew who was on the short list.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: And senior officials here stress there is no short list yet. While they're preparing for this possibility, even during the presidential transition knowing that there could be some retirements, they say the field is still wide open, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Ed, thank you very much -- Ed Henry from the White House.
Well joining me now our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin who is author of "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court" (ph). First were you surprised that David Souter announced his retirement?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: No. He was really the most likely to go even though he is 20 years younger than John Paul Stevens (ph), 69 years old versus 89 years old. Souter has been open with his friends about wanting to leave Washington, go home to New Hampshire. He's been a judge for more than 20 years. He's just ready to go.
DOBBS: Did the president convey to you a sense of excitement about the opportunity to replace him by appearing and taking over Robert Gibbs' job there for a moment?
TOOBIN: I think that was quite indicative of the excitement not just he feels, but the Democratic Party feels. There are only two Supreme Court justices out of the nine who were appointed by a Democratic president now, so they want more and they want one now.
DOBBS: And no one can be more surprised perhaps than George H.W. Bush who appointed David Souter, who turned out to be -- I mean he was opposed by the NAACP, the National Organization for Women, by nearly every major liberal organization in the country as President H.W. Bush was appointing him.
TOOBIN: There's a flyer that I still have from the Souter confirmation that the National Organization for Women gave out and it said, stop Souter or women will die. It was -- he was thought to be an opponent of abortion rights. He turned out in very short order to disappoint the Republicans who appointed him and become a solid member of the liberal wing of the court.
DOBBS: Let's quickly listen to the president as a candidate on the campaign trail talking about what he would be looking for in a Supreme Court justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We need somebody who's got the heart to recognize -- the empathy to recognize what it's like to be a young, teenage mom, the empathy to understand what it's like to be poor or African-American or gay or disabled or old -- all right? And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges. (END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Which of the nine, Jeffrey, would you say best meets those criteria right now sitting on the court?
TOOBIN: Probably Ruth Ginsberg who is probably the most liberal member remaining on the court, but someone who has led complicated, interesting life, who was poor, who lost her mother young. But that view of what you want in a Supreme Court justice that has ideological content. That's different from what a Republican president would and did say. The Republicans don't talk about empathy. And they want to talk about the law, enforcing and applying the law. That's what presidents do. That's what justices do. That's a very different view than President Obama has.
DOBBS: Will he be met with resistance on that view? Because it is a bit strange when so much discussion is about the scholarship, the academic brilliance of the candidate, his or her capacity as a jurist and then suddenly empathy becomes a principle criteria.
TOOBIN: Well Ginsberg and Breyer (ph) in the early '90s were confirmed with more than 90 votes in the Senate. Those days are over. There will never be anyone confirmed with more than 90 voters and there will be a lot of senators, the Republicans mostly who will say that's not the way to pick a justice, but you know he's got 60 senators to work with in the Democratic Party. That's a pretty good cushion, so some will disagree but it's going to be very tough to stop anyone.
DOBBS: Well it can't be at all too early to ask you to speculate as to who you think would be the front runner in replacing Justice Souter.
TOOBIN: Absolutely not. It's never too early to speculate.
DOBBS: Well fire at will (INAUDIBLE).
TOOBIN: Well the -- Sonia Sotomayor, who is a judge on the Court of Appeals here in New York, she's been on the court a long time. She was appointed to the district court by the first President Bush, has a little bit of bipartisanship. She would be the first Hispanic justice. Janet Napolitano probably I would guess your choice for the Supreme Court.
DOBBS: I hope -- I hope your other guesses are better.
TOOBIN: As you know, the head of homeland security now, former governor of Arizona, Leah Ward Sears soon to be stepping down as the chief justice of Georgia. Diane Wood who's a judge on the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago. Jennifer Granholm the -- who is the governor of Michigan, and Marjorie Rendell, the wife of the governor of Pennsylvania, who's been a judge in the Third Circuit Court of Appeals for several years.
DOBBS: I notice with my unerring capacity of deduction, a commonality among the candidates you see replacing Justice Souter. TOOBIN: All women.
DOBBS: Why?
TOOBIN: More than half the law students in the United States are now women. Almost half the lawyers in the United States are women. There's only one out of nine justices on the Supreme Court who are women. I think President Obama, who believes in diversity, thinks it's time to even out the balance a little bit more.
DOBBS: Are you talking about the death of meritocracy on the court?
TOOBIN: Well I -- because there are so many women...
DOBBS: Wouldn't it be strange if this court ruled against affirmative action, racial quotas, and ruled in favor of a truly sex gender and race blind society that then Justice Souter be replaced on the basis of group and identity politics? Wouldn't that be...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Wouldn't that be captivatingly ironic?
TOOBIN: That would be interesting but Obama would say diversity is not opposite of meritocracy. Those are very qualified candidates...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: ... account for what he would say, only what I think. Thank you very much. I appreciate you sharing what you think with us, Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: OK.
DOBBS: Jeffrey Toobin.
Straight ahead here, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tells us what she thinks of me on the issue of sovereignty -- oh boy. And the state of California on the verge of bankruptcy again -- still -- and lawmakers continue to break promises to taxpayers in California -- shocking -- absolutely shocking. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: U.S. prosecutors today dropped all charges against two former pro Israel lobbyists in a high profile espionage case. Those former lobbyists, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman worked for the powerful pro Israel group APAC (ph). Prosecutors decided to drop those charges after concluding the pretrial rulings would make it difficult for the government to win the case.
In economic news the automobile industry today released its latest sales numbers and high profile bankruptcy hearings and restructuring plans dominating while sales continued to fall -- Chrysler announcing its April sales down 48 percent from a year ago -- Chrysler filing for bankruptcy. Sales at Toyota, the world's largest carmaker, dropping 42 percent from a year ago -- General Motors facing possibly bankruptcy, reporting a 33-percent decline in its sales and Ford sales off 32 percent.
Maine is now on track to become the fifth state to legalize same sex marriage. A bill just passed the Maine Senate. Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, and Vermont, the other states that have legalized same sex marriage. New Hampshire is expected to vote on that issue within the next few weeks.
Rising anger tonight in California at the way the state government is spending taxpayer money. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the State Legislature continue to raise taxes and cut services despite promises to control spending. Only a third of California voters believe the governor is doing a good job now. The legislature scores even lower. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California's Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Democratic controlled legislature are setting new standards for voter outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now at this point I don't trust any politician, not even my own councilman.
WIAN: Only 14 percent of California voters approve of the job the legislature is doing. And just a third are pleased with their governor according to a new Field poll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they deserve the low ratings because they you know took too long to pass the budget.
MARK DICAMILLO, DIRECTOR, THE FIELD POLL: There's just a sense among voters that this state is not well run. There's no real control of spending and voters are really taking it out on their elected officials.
WIAN: Schwarzenegger's 33 percent favorable rating is both a personal low and the second lowest ever for a California governor. The only lower rating during the past half century belonged to Gray Davis in 2003 just before voters threw him out of office in the recall election that gave Schwarzenegger the job.
Then voters were outraged about rolling electrical blackouts, driver's licenses for illegal aliens, and increased vehicle license fees. Today it's California's massive budget deficit, tax increases, and cuts to public services.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without props 1A and 1B we have $16 billion in new cuts coming.
WIAN: A special election this month will decide six ballot measures designed to balance the budget in the future. Polls say voters are leaning against all but one that would cap elected officials' salaries in years when the state runs a deficit.
RICHARD RIORDAN, FORMER L.A. MAYOR, "NO ON 1A": We have the highest deficit in the history and yet not one penny was cut from state government for the long run. There was no restructuring of departments. All they did, they took the campaign money from unions, other special interest groups, and they gave themselves, they gave unions, everybody else a raise as they wanted.
WIAN: The governor says he inherited the fiscal mess and the budget propositions are needed to maintain basic services.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: But it's an incredible fall from grace for Schwarzenegger who five years ago had a 65 percent approval rating. Perhaps most telling he is now graded higher by Democrats than by members of his own party, Lou.
DOBBS: All right. California -- quite a joint right now -- thanks very much, Casey -- Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.
Up next some startling comments by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- she takes a swipe at me and I'm very, very sensitive. The swine flu outbreak is still spreading but there are some reasons to be optimistic. A top official from the Centers for Disease Control joins us. We'll have that story, a great deal more straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: "The Big Stories" tonight -- Justice David Souter announcing he will retire from the Supreme Court in June. His announcement immediately sparked an intense debate about who will replace him. Justice Souter votes of course with the liberal bloc of the court. President Obama today said he wants Justice Souter's successor to empathize as he put it with disadvantaged Americans.
And the number of confirmed swine flu cases in this country continues to rise. There are now 141 cases. But there have been no more deaths in the United States. Some health officials are now expressing cautious optimism about this outbreak. They say the swine flu does not appear to have the genetic structure of the flu that killed tens of millions of people in 1918 or the recent avian flu in Asia.
Researchers at the Centers for Disease Control tonight are racing to develop a vaccine for swine flu, but it's unclear whether Americans will be offered a vaccine any time soon if at all. Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A key FDA official tells LOU DOBBS TONIGHT that authorities are still assessing whether or not a vaccine would be appropriate, but getting positioned to try to produce one in time for the usual flu vaccine season that starts in the fall. The Centers for Disease Control stipulates...
SCHUCHAT: We haven't made the decision yet that we will manufacture large numbers of doses of vaccine.
SCHIAVONE: Of paramount concern, will the vaccine be safe? About 30 years ago when a different strain of swine flu erupted the government heavily promoted swine flu vaccination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Swine flu? Man, I'm too fast for it to catch me.
SCHIAVONE: Months later inoculations stopped after people started to get sick. As many as 32 people are believed to have died from the vaccine. Health officials say they'll proceed with deliberation but take the time required to get it right.
DR. MARIE-PAULE KIENY, WHO: It takes between four and six months to have the first doses of vaccine coming out of the factory and being available for immunizing people.
SCHIAVONE: Where would a new vaccine fit in with the standard flu vaccine now being prepared? An FDA official tells LOU DOBBS TONIGHT that it's not clear yet whether a vaccine for swine flu can be produced as a component of another flu vaccine or whether it would be administered separately.
(on camera): Until then officials are counting on stocks of the antiviral TAMIFLU to treat flu victims and they're cautioning Americans against buying potentially counterfeit antiviral drugs over the Internet.
Louise Schiavone for CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Joining me now for more on the swine flu is Rear Admiral Anne Schuchat. Dr. Schuchat is director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. It's good to see you again, Admiral.
Let me ask you. The number of cases is stabilizing, declining in Mexico, at the hospitals where those counts are being taken. Is this reason for at the very least cautious optimism?
DR ANNE SCHUCHAT, CTR FOR IMMUNIZATION & RESP DISEASES: You know, I think that it's probably a little soon to be sure this is good news, but we hope that the facts will bear it out. Of course near the United States the counts are still going up and we really need to stay on alert.
DOBBS: They have found patient zero, apparently the first case of swine flu now identified at a hog farm in Peratti (ph), Mexico. Is that information helpful in developing a vaccine should that decision ultimately be taken?
SCHUCHAT: You know, I think the evaluations of the source of this strain are interesting and will be valuable in the long-term, but here at CDC we're focusing on the response on making sure that we do all we can to reduce illness, death, and slow the transition of this new virus.
DOBBS: One of the things, and I've heard a number of people say, not doctors, just, you know, regular folks talking, and that is, why is there so much focus on this outbreak of flu when we lose 36,000 people every year to just what is a routine flu? What is the answer?
SCHUCHAT: You know, seasonal influenza is important and we take great efforts to try to reduce those 36,000 deaths and the 200,000 hospitalizations from it. What's different here is we're talking about a novel virus that we don't have general population immunity to.
With seasonal flu, a lot of the population has already seen influenza viruses that are similar to what's circulating, but with a potential pandemic strain, or this novel virus, what we're worried about is it would be able to spread much more widely and of course the other critical factor is how severe it will be. That's something we don't know as much as we need to about yet.
DOBBS: The severity that we are now at the global alert Level 5, which is again, like four before it, a place where we've never been in the five years there's been an alert by the World Health Organization. How soon will we know whether or not we're going to be able to determine the severity and the likely, if you will, longevity of this flu in our society?
SCHUCHAT: You know, it's important for viewers to know that the WHO phases refer to the spread, how much of the world is affected by the spread of the virus, but they don't actually get into the severity of disease.
DOBBS: Right.
SCHUCHAT: Severity, you might want tongue about hurricanes, a Category 1 hurricane versus a Category 5 hurricane, it's that severity of a potentially pandemic strain of influenza virus that we're really interested in, right now. We take certain kinds of precautions for a Category 1 hurricane and other, much more stringent precautions for a Category 5 one.
DOBBS: Dr. Schuchta, CDC is going ahead with a vaccine. We know WHO Is. and how are you working together? How soon will you be able to bring a vaccine forward do you think?
SCHUCHAT: There are active efforts to develop a seed strain that would go into vaccine production, but there are many steps that need to be taken looking at pilot lot development and then clinical studies to figure out whether the vaccine actually works in different doses and formulations. So, there are many months of work to go before we could actually have production online. Of course that's a partnership between many parts of the government and the manufacturing community.
DOBBS: A lot of very important questions to be answered and we appreciate you being here to answer some of them. I know that the questions are building almost daily. We appreciate it. Admiral Schuchta, thank you.
SCHUCHAT: Thank you. My pleasure.
DOBBS: Turning now to our illegal immigration crisis, protests over the nation's immigration policies taking place today. Demonstration, some marches held in Chicago, New York City, other cities, turnout, however, lower twhan had been expected and what had been expected was considerably lower than anything we'd seen before.
The demonstrators were calling, as usual, for amnesty for illegal aliens and a halt to workplace enforcement raids. Marchers say they want to use so-called immigration reform bill passed and an Obama- administration backed plan would give amnesty to somewhere between 12 million and 20 million illegal aliens in the United States, plus of course their immediate families.
In Washington, D.C. a group showed up outside the CNN bureau there to protest my reporting on the illegal immigration crisis in this country.
While it is important to note that May 1 in this country is not, you know, primarily in this country national Law Day, you wouldn't know that given what is happening with other news organizations and outlets because that is not their focus.
It is actually a day to honor our nation's rule by law. And the law's contributions to our freedoms and a reminder perhaps to some that this is first and foremost a nation of laws.
President Dwight Eisenhower established Law Day in 1958. It was made into law in 1961. Every president since has issued a Law Day proclamation. President Obama today issued his proclamation calling on Americans to acknowledge the importance, our legal system and to display the flag of the United States in support of this national observance.
May 1 is also foreign affairs day. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton marked the occasion with a town hall meeting for foreign service employees. Mrs. Clinton had, as well, a well, a comment or two about me. John Strausser (ph) who works at the Joint Forces Command asked the secretary if the administration should develop a concept of global governance first recommended by a U.N. commission back in the late '90s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN STRAUSSER, JOINT FORCES COMMAND: I believe it stale hasill has a lot of very good proposals and needs to be updated but recommend to you considering global governance as that concept for this administration. Thank you.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), US SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I can just imagine what Lou Dobbs will say about that.
(LAUGHTER)
STRAUSSER: You know what? Who cares about Lou Dobbs?
CLINTON: I agree with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, I'm sorry she agrees with that and, you know, I have to say that I would expect the secretary of state and anyone who is an employee of the Defense Department, certainly the secretary of -- the Department of State to perhaps be concerned about U.S. sovereignty and U.S. governance rather than global governance, just a thought for consideration. And of course I'll have a few more thoughts about the issue in the days and weeks ahead.
A renewed effort, tonight, that could curtail our Second Amendment rights to keep and bear arms if President Obama has his way. He wants the Senate to ratify a little known treaty that would create a national registry for guns. Under that treaty other nations would be able to identify gun owners in the United States. Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Obama went to Mexico and brought back a 12-year-old treaty.
BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I am urging the Senate in the united states to ratify an interamerican treaty known as SIFTA, to curb small arms trafficking that is a source of so many of the weapons used in this drug war.
TUCKER: The treaty, signed by President Clinton in 1997, was never ratified by the Senate. It calls for the institution of a regime of gun control never before seen in the United States, creating a gun registration system that would be open to international sharing. Offenders would be prosecuted under treaty law and they would be eligible for extradition.
Proponents, like Senator Dick Luger, are urging passage saying, "We should consider ratifying during this Congress the Inter-American Convention against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunitions, Explosives, and related materials." Gun rights activists are incensed.
LARRY PRATT, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: It reflects a deep distrust that the government of the United States has had toward the people that somehow we need to be regulated because of other people's inability to have a peaceful and orderly society?
TUCKER: Which cuts to the deep distrust some gun owners have for government in general and specifically this administration. President Obama as a senator consistently supported gun control legislation. His attorney general, Eric Holder, is also in favor of gun control. But one strong supporter of the Second Amendment in the Senate is determined to see the president does not get his wish.
SEN JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: The president said it is a very high priority for him to get this treaty that takes away our Second Amendment rights ratified by the Senate. It is a very high priority for me to make sure this treaty never gets ratified by the United States Senate. And we will find the votes to defeat it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Gun control is an issue the Democratic congressional leadership has not been eager to embrace just yet but that is what has gun rights groups concerned about this treaty. It isn't being presented as gun control. Instead, Lou, it's being presented as an international treaty that has been ratified by 29 other countries so therefore it must be right that we ratify it as well.
DOBBS: Well, I don't know who -- what do you mean, it must be right? Because 29 other countries don't have a Second Amendment or a constitution?
TUCKER: Correct. And that seems to be President Obama's logic. This is an international treaty.
DOBBS: Well, we're fools if we don't pay attention to what is being done before our very eyes. And that is what's taking place. And no one can blame President Obama. We have only ourselves to blame because he has made it very clear, as has his attorney general, the chief law enforcement officer in the country, they just want to do a few things with gun laws like take them away in large measure. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Well, coming up here next, we'll tell you about a party shift in the Senate that may not give the Democrats the power lock they want or expected. And a Supreme Court justice to step down, we'll have the list of likely successors and take that up with three of the nation's best political analysts here, next. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts, all CNN contributors. From Nashville, Tennessee, professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University, Professor Carol Swain.
Good to have you with us.
Here in New York with me Democratic strategist, Democratic national committeeman, Robert Zimmerman.
Good to have you with us.
And syndicated columnist and Lehman College journalism professor, Miguel Perez.
Good to have you with us.
Let's start with, first of all, Carol, with you. A new Supreme Court justice will be appointed by a former professor of law by the name of President Barack H. Obama, an exciting moment. How important is this?
PROF CAROL SWAIN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: It gives him a great opportunity to make a historical appointment of a minority, I'm sure, that it will be a racial or ethnic minority and maybe a woman, as well.
DOBBS: Yeah, our Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst here, hazards six guesses, all women of various ethnicity and races. What happened to meritocracy? Why is there a racial-ethnic gender blocking, do you think, on the Supreme Court? What's that about?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think, if I may say, Lou, I think it's to Barack Obama's credit that he considers racial ethnic gender issues in making the choice because there is no conflict between a meritocracy and choosing diversity. And I think that speaks to -- increases the strength of the Supreme Court and its ability to be empathetic. That doesn't replace constitutional excellence.
SWAIN: It's problematic if other people are being excluded solely because of race, that would be problematic. But it's great, he can have diversity and he can also have, you know, consider gender.
PROF MIGUEL PEREZ, LEHMAN COLLEGE: It still is a test, like cops and firemen are taking tests, and the top 20...
DOBBS: I think you've got a great idea. There ought to be a test.
PEREZ: If there was a test and we knew exactly who the most qualified candidates were...
(CROSSTALK)
But, if we know who they were, then we could say, listen, it's discriminatory not to pick the right person.
(CROSSTALK)
SWAIN: Wait a minute.
PEREZ: But, Lou, there are going to be 20, there's going to be 50 people who are qualified, so why not pick the most diverse panel?
ZIMMERMAN: To prove the danger -- to prove the validity of the concern of your point, Lou, is that if we did in fact choose diversity over meritocracy we'd have Clarence Thomas again and I think our country and Congress...
DOBBS: That's almost Illogical but I'm sure you...
ZIMMERMAN: No it's objective.
SWAIN: We wouldn't know because the bar association rates the candidates, they have criteria; they will apply it to the criteria to the candidates that are nominated. DOBBS: Well, it's going to be fascinating. And I'm still at a loss how -- whether you're talking about excluding males or whites or blacks or whomever it may be in any judgment that you would not be limiting the possibility of creating the best answer irrespective, but that's just me. You know, I'm perhaps out of sync with the social current of the day.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, by the way, if you would, listen to this. She got a question about governance, global governance. Listen in if you would.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN STRAUSSER, JOINT FORCES COMMAND: I believe it stale hasill has a lot of very good proposals and needs to be updated but recommend to you considering global governance as that concept for this administration. Thank you.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), US SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I can just imagine what Lou Dobbs will say about that.
(LAUGHTER)
STRAUSSER: You know what? Who cares about Lou Dobbs?
CLINTON: I agree with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: I was with her right up to I agree with that, Robert Zimmerman.
ZIMMERMAN: And I can tell you, I share your sentiments but I used my excellent sources to try to figure out what the heck that was all about and the consensus was from very reliable, insiders, when they say they're not focusing on what you're saying, when they say they're not listening to you in Washington, they're listening to you. It's quite a recognition.
PEREZ: I thought she was copping out because she got kind of a whacky question to begin with about global governance. She didn't want to deal with it so she picks on you and says oh, how would Lou react? What we still don't know is how would she react?
DOBBS: Well, good for her. Carol, your thoughts and then we're going to take a quick break.
SWAIN: They are clearly worried about Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Well, you know, it's funny to hear people agreeing with you on the issue of sovereignty, well not with me, but with one another on sovereignty, when you're at the State Department and Defense Department and the Joint Command, my god. Global governance, my foot. We'll be back with our panel in just a moment, but first at the top of the hour, no bias, no bull. Roland Martin in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey Lou, we're also talking about Supreme Court Justice David Souter's decision to retire. President Obama says he wants his nominee to be in place for the start of a new term in October. So coming up, we'll find out what kind of person the president might select regardless of gender, race, and whether he's headed for a potential confirmation fight.
Plus, a side of Condoleezza Rice you've never seen before. We have tape of a confrontation that's very revealing. We'll see it in a few minutes. And of course, college football fans listen up. Today one Texas congressman compared the bowl championship series to communism. That's right. We'll have the details, all of that, at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: And you better listen to him because he knows what he's talking about.
MARTIN: Agreed. He's from Texas.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: A reminder now to join me on the radio -- thank you Roland -- Monday through Fridays for the Lou Dobbs show 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. each afternoon on WOR-710 radio in New York City. Go to LouDobbsRadio.com and get the local listings for the LOU DOBBS SHOW on the radio. We'll be back with our panel in just a moment and we'll find out just exactly, exactly the course of events for next week. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Want to turn now to Professor Swain. President Obama today, a proclamation calling Americans to display the flag in observance of May 1, Law Day. I thought that was a terrific decision son his part. Didn't you?
SWAIN: I agree, 100 percent. I wish...
DOBBS: I wonder why we don't see more demonstrations in support of Law Day. We are first and foremost a nation of laws, right professor?
SWAIN: Well, we should be a nation of laws, but I don't see many people being encouraged to actually follow those laws.
DOBBS: Well, the president at least beginning, taking the lead. Hopefully that will be a mark of days and years to come.
SWAIN: We will see.
PEREZ: We're also a nation of immigrants and that's part of what we also have to consider, here. We have a proud tradition of being a nation of immigrants. Immigrants have made this country what it is today, all of us.
SWAIN: And the immigrants should follow the law like everyone else.
PEREZ: And we all agree on that. We need a legal immigration and we need to fight for that.
ZIMMERMAN: But, I think we also have to separate legal immigration from illegal immigration. And I think one of the most intriguing and important aspects of today, Law Day, and of the debate we're now witnessing in Congress, is that the principles you've outlined about putting border and port security first, is now part of the mainstream of the American dialogue and now part of the mainstream of the dialogue in the Congress. Let's see if they take action on those words.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Robert. Appreciate it. Miguel, thank you. Professor Swain, thank you very much.
And still ahead, "Heroes." Tonight we honor Army Captain Matthew Myer whose soldiers fought a two-day battle against hundreds of Taliban insurgents. We'll have his remarkable story, here, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: And now "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this nation in uniform. Tonight we honor Army Captain Matthew Myer, who fought in one of the bloodiest battles of the war in Afghanistan. During the Battle of Wanat, hundreds of Taliban insurgents tried to overrun one of our patrol bases. Our soldiers were vastly outnumbered. Kitty Pilgrim has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chosen Company, 2nd Battalion, 533rd Infantry Regiment, 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team, stationed for 15 months in Kunar and Nuristan provinces of Afghanistan, a mountainous region near the border of Pakistan and an active population of Taliban insurgents.
CAPT MATTHEW MYER, U.S. ARMY: Our real mission was to the Afghan people, trying to build and construct their infrastructure, their government systems, economic development.
PILGRIM: Paving road, handing out blankets and food, Army Captain Matthew Myer and his soldiers did what they could to win the trust of the Afghan people and build support for the Afghan government, all the while exchanging near daily fire with Taliban insurgents.
Then on July 13, 2008, a massive early morning attack, the Battle of Wanat.
MYER: We established a base a few days earlier, we were in the beginning phases of building it up. I was on the ground. I had got there the night before and the attack was early that morning. Everyone was awake. It was obvious the enemy was -- far outnumbered us that day.
PILGRIM: Forty-seven U.S. soldiers alongside 24 Afghan soldiers defending the base, 200 Taliban insurgents trying to overrun it. After two hours of heavy fighting, nearly 50 Taliban fighters were killed, nine Americans also lost their lives. It took a full two days to completely drive the enemy out of the area. The Army says Chosen Company displayed uncommon valor in what's described as one of the bloodiest battles of this war.
Captain Myer received the Silver Star for his leadership, as did Specialist Michael Denton and Corporal Jonathan Ayers, who was killed in the battle. Sergeant First Class David Zwick received the Bronze Star with Valor. But Captain Myer says all his men where heroes.
MYER: They weren't thinking about themselves, obviously. It takes incredible human beings that are part of Chosen Company who have valor to do something like that. It's nothing that comes natural, but comes through the train and it comes thought the character of these men.
PILGRIM: Kitty Pilgrim, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Captain Myer was one of many heroes that day. In all, a remarkable 63 medals, including 11 Silver Stars were awarded to those who fought in the Battle of Wanat. We salute them, we thank them and all who serve this nation in uniform.
Two dozen immigrants who serve in the U.S. military were sworn in today as U.S. citizens. In a ceremony at the White House, President Obama praised the men and women for their commitment, their sacrifice and their service. The group had their citizenship expedited because of their military service to this country.
And finally tonight, I'd like to take a moment to wish my mother a very happy birthday -- her 99th birthday. And contrary to what many people think, she did not give birth to me at somewhere in her mid 60s, but close enough.
Thanks for being with us. Mother, happy birthday. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Goodnight from New York. NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now. In for Campbell Brown, Roland Martin - Roland.
MARTIN: Such is a young man, Lou, such a young man.
