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SHOWBIZ TONIGHT

Jon and Kate`s Marriage Crisis?; Barack`s Beauties; Too Fat, Too Skinny?; The Donald Defends Miss California

Aired May 1, 2009 - 23:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


A.J. HAMMER, HOST: Now, on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Jon and Kate, plus Jon`s date? Tonight, is one of TV`s most beloved reality show marriages falling apart right before our very eyes?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIE BROMLEY, "US MAGAZINE": Some of that behavior on screen and off screen has been questionable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Is he cheating? Is she too hard on him? Are their eight kids just getting to be too much? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the coast-to- coast controversy over "Jon and Kate Plus Eight."

Too fat, too skinny? Tonight, two big stars and two big weight controversies. Kirstie Alley tells Oprah she`s sorry for gaining back all her weight, plus some. But does she really have anything to apologize for? And is it really fair to attack a super-thin beauty queen and call her scary skinny? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with a brand-new great weight debate - too fat, too skinny?

Plus, why Donald Trump is defending Miss California in the explosive gay marriage debate.

TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.

(MUSIC)

Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

And tonight, the Jon minus Kate marriage mess. Well, here we go again - the possible meltdown of a marriage right before our very eyes on a reality TV show.

Tonight, there is absolute chaos swirling around the most watched reality show couple on television, Jon and Kate Gosselin, the stars of TLC`s "Jon and Kate Plus Eight." And it`s all because Jon was caught on camera late at night with a woman who is definitely not Kate.

But, wait, there is more, which is why SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can now declare with great confidence that there is no doubt that Jon and Kate are making big news right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE GOSSELIN, "JON AND KATE PLUS EIGHT": Did you bite Colin(ph)?

HAMMER (voice-over): They manage fights between their children and each other.

K. GOSSELIN: Please don`t squish the cereal in your anger.

JON GOSSELIN, "JON AND KATE PLUS EIGHT": I`m not squishing anything.

HAMMER: There are a favorite target of late night comedians.

JOEL MCHALE, HOST, "SOUP": It`s become a show about a man with zero reasons to live.

HAMMER: And now, Jon and Kate Gosselin who struggle to raise their eight children in the TLC reality show "Jon and Kate Plus Eight" are in a real drama as magazines scream about Jon`s late-night activities.

JO PIAZZA, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: We`re hearing that Jon has been going out and partying on his own.

HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you reality TV`s most popular super-sized family appears to be in crisis mode, and all of America is taking sides in the great Jon and Kate debate.

BROMLEY: This is a kind of behavior that you would not expect from a married man with eight children.

PIAZZA: If I were Jon, I would be out partying with a blond until 2:00 a.m., too. That guy needs a breather.

HAMMER: Jon set celebrity magazines blazing when he was photographed recently after a night out with a woman who was not his wife.

BROMLEY: Kate has been around the country for booking signing for her book. Jon was seen on April the 18th going to a nightclub called Legends and going inside and coming out with a woman after three hours.

HAMMER: In a statement to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Jon says he`s not going to give up his female friends but, quote, "being out with them late at night showed poor judgment on my part. What makes me sick is that my careless behavior has put my family in this uncomfortable position." He adds, "My family is the most important thing in my life, and it kills me that these allegations have hurt them."

BROMLEY: He does admit that what he`s doing is causing us to question his marriage.

HAMMER: Back in February, gossip pages exploded after more pictures of Jon drinking in a bar, this time with some coeds, hit the Internet. Back then, Jon insisted in "People" magazine that he didn`t cheat on Kate, but he did admit to marital problems.

PIAZZA: Jon has said Kate`s working now as part of this reality show has put some kind of strain on their marriage.

K. GOSSELIN: I`m not having the TV discussion again and "OK" is not an acceptable answer anymore.

HAMMER: Jon and Kate`s almost constant bickering on the show hasn`t helped these doubts about their marriage.

PIAZZA: He feels like Kate is in control and Kate is the one who, you know, kind of throws it down on Jon, too. She tells him what to do. She tells them what not to do.

HAMMER: In fact, Kate`s famous outbursts make Jon the sympathetic victim in the eyes of some, especially late night comedy shows like "The Soup."

K. GOSSELIN: It`s so irritating that you talk over (UNINTELLIGIBLE) me. Still, how long are we going to need interviews? It`s like you would learn by now.

MCHALE: You know, Jon, octomom is available.

PIAZZA: I think because people have such a strong reaction to Kate that when they hear that Jon has gone out and let loose a little bit, they are like, "Yay, Jon. Good for you. You deserve it."

HAMMER: But Kate, who has written a bestselling book, has her fans.

K. GOSSELIN: I have enough to keep track of -

HAMMER: Fans who say raising eight small children is stressful for any mom, especially one who has a husband who may not be as hands-on as she would like.

BROMLEY: Jon`s behavior off-screen is not necessarily acceptable. That`s not something you would expect from a happy married man.

J. GOSSELIN: It might be a crazy life.

K. GOSSELIN: But it`s our life.

HAMMER: "Jon and Kate Plus Eight" is TLC`s most popular show. But after we saw so many other reality show couples such as Hulk and Linda Hogan -

LINDA HOGAN, "HOGAN KNOWS BEST": I can`t live like this, Terry -

HULK HOGAN, "HOGAN KNOWS BEST": Every day is drama. It`s just ridiculous.

HAMMER: And Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey -

JESSICA SIMPSON, "NEWLYWEDS": I know it`s tuna, but it says "Chicken by the Sea."

HAMMER: End up divorced. The big question is, when you watch Jon and Kate -

K. GOSSELIN: Did you hear me?

J. GOSSELIN: Yes.

K. GOSSELIN: What was the end of what I said?

J. GOSSELIN: I can`t hear.

HAMMER: Are we also watching a marriage disintegrate before our very eyes?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

So what`s really going on here? Will Jon be minus Kate and his eight?

With me in New York tonight is Carolina Bermudez, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly." Also in New York, Ben Widdicombe, celebrity editor for "StyleList.com."

Can we take a look again at this cover of "Us Weekly" magazine? Look at that. The screaming headline there, "Caught with Another Woman." And then, let`s take a look at these pictures of Jon and the woman he was with. And then, let`s take a look at last November`s "Good Housekeeping."

Look at that, Jon, Kate, the eight kids right there on the cover, looking as wholesome as apple pie. Ben Widdicombe, to you first. This turn of events is stunning, to say the least, isn`t it?

BEN WIDDICOMBE, CELEBRITY EDITOR, "STYLELIST.COM": Well, absolutely, I think Jon is so busted right now. But let`s not forget, these are public people, not private citizens. So they have not just a family but also a business at stake.

And, you know, Kate has a book which debuted number five on the "New York Times" bestseller list. And this show has a huge following and generates income to support their family. So I think they have bigger issues than just their interpersonal relationship. If Jon decides to leave the nest, how are they going to make money?

HAMMER: And let`s be clear - he was busted being seen with another woman and Jon is fessing up to being out on the town and he admits that he showed poor judgment, in his words, and that the pictures put his family in what he called an uncomfortable position.

But Carolina, him coming out and saying all of those things - is that really enough to cover his butt with what has happened, or does he need to say more?

CAROLINA BERMUDEZ, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Come on, A.J. You know what? If you have a platonic friend, you don`t start averting the paparazzi the way that he did. He exhibited some suspect behavior. And he`s going to pay for it.

I`m so scared to see what Kate is going to do to him. You know, we may hear another story that he gets castrated a couple of weeks from now. The poor guy is never going to get out of the dog house. He definitely needs to apologize again or make it maybe a little bit more eloquent apology. Because, I`m telling you right now, Kate is probably riding him at that house.

HAMMER: Hey, do me a favor, Carolina. Don`t throw around ideas like castration on this show, OK? I`d appreciate that.

BERMUDEZ: OK.

HAMMER: Let`s keep in mind, of course, this isn`t the first time that Jon Gosselin has been accused of stepping out on Kate. Back in February, Jon was seen with some college students. Those pictures that you`re seeing were all over the Internet. Ben, is the writing on the wall for Jon minus Kate at this point?

WIDDICOMBE: Well, I think that Jon has found himself in quite a bit of demand because it seems that women love a baby daddy and a committed father. And women are very attracted to that.

I did a Twitter poll before coming in here tonight because that passes for journalism these days. And a lot of women are telling that they think Jon is really hot. They don`t like Kate. They think she`s a shrew. They don`t like her haircut. So I think of the two of them, he`s the one with the options right now.

HAMMER: One with the options. Do you think maybe he should run off with octomom?

WIDDICOMBE: I think that that would be a genius reality show.

HAMMER: It certainly would. Hey, there`s your octo-reality show. I`ve got to point out that whether or not you believe in this reality show curse that has been spoken of before, a lot of stars have broken up after wildly successful shows. And again, this is the most popular show on TLC right now.

Let`s take a look at some of them: Jessica Simpson, Nick Lachey; you have Hulk Hogan and his wife Linda; of course, Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston - all split up. All did reality shows. I really could go on with this list.

Carolina, are you with me? Are people just nuts to do shows like this?

BERMUDEZ: Definitely. It`s a kiss of death, A.J. I mean, we followed all of those couples extensively at "In Touch Weekly.: And here`s the thing. You are going to be on television. All of the fights, you can go back and you can examine those fights.

And then also people in the audience, your fans, feel like they are at liberty to comment on your relationship. All it does is add more to the pressure cooker. Relationships are hard as it is so you don`t want to put it out there for everybody else to comment on.

HAMMER: Can you imagine being the kids also and your friends have DVD collections of all of your parents` ups and downs before they split up? I mean, the list goes on with this.

Can we show a few more of these? You had of course, Shanna Moakler and Travis Barker. They did a reality show, then those guys split up. Carmen Electra and Dave Navarro, and of course, everybody`s favorite, Britney Spears and Kevin Federline. We didn`t see that coming, didn`t we?

Ben, do couples who do these shows, you know, have this divorce death wish that we talk about?

WIDDICOMBE: Well, I think what`s sad about the couples that you just referenced to is that everyone except Jon and Kate were already showbiz people. So they totally knew what they were getting into. They`re probably narcissists because they like the limelight.

And so, I have a lot more sympathy for a couple like Jon and Kate who was so-called normal people who maybe didn`t realize what they were inviting into their home when they signed the contract.

HAMMER: And somehow, Ozzie and Sharon survived. Carolina, 10 seconds for you, but I`d have to believe the folks over at TLC, really, aren`t the least bit distressed over this because you know people are tuning in to see what is going to happen next.

BERMUDEZ: Oh, absolutely. This is like a PR present for them over at TLC. Everybody is going to be dying to see what`s up on the new season. And you know what? Hopefully, they can work it out and let the team get to them and take care of those kids.

HAMMER: Yes. Everybody will be watching. Carolina Bermudez, Ben Widdicombe, I thank you both.

Well, we have just been getting flooded with your E-mails, your phone calls coming over this brand-new Miss California gay marriage controversy.

Tonight, Donald Trump, who you know is the owner of the Miss USA pageant - well, the Donald is jumping to the defense of Miss California. You have got to hear what the Donald is saying and you will, coming up.

Also tonight, too fat, too skinny? Two big stars, two big weight controversies. Kirstie Alley tells Oprah she`s sorry for gaining back her all her weight. But does she really have anything to apologize for? And is it really fair to attack a super-thin beauty queen calling her scary skinny?

And Sarah Palin hanging out with a big, old dead bear on the couch. Now, I`m no hunter, but come on, really? You have got to see this video. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.

Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.

(CAPTION READS: Britney Spears` ex-manager appealing three-year restraining order. Oprah Winfrey surprise-visits Ellen during her 1,000th show.)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAMMER: Hello. Sounds like first kids Sasha and Malia Obama are committing a Bo boo-boo. Now, even though the first kids really wanted a dog, mom Michelle says she`s the one who`s waking up at ridiculous hours to walk the first puppy, Bo. The first lady says she doesn`t mind all the doggie duties, though.

And that was doggie duties. Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

You remember Barker`s beauties from "The Price is Right," don`t you? Well, tonight, we`ve got "Barack`s beauties." Now, I`ve got to tell you some people have suggested Washington hasn`t always exactly been known for having the hottest people. But a lot of people do say that President Obama has changed all of that with his "Barack`s beauties." Here is CNN`s Erica Hill for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It`s not the first time anyone`s notice that the president is surrounded by attractive people. But it`s probably the first time that they`ve been referred to as "Barack beauties."

And topping that list in "People`s" latest round-up of the most beautiful 100 people, First Lady Michelle Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michelle Obama is one of the most looked at, watched, scrutinized people in recent months for her looks as well as her substance. So she was a natural for Barack`s beauties.

HILL: Washington, however, has never been a go-to for "People`s" annual beauties issue. In a town jokingly referred to as "Hollywood for Ugly People," how did so many White House staffers make the grade this year?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Washington is the center of a lot of interest and excitement right now. There`s a bunch of new people there and so it`s just kind of fun to take a little peek at them.

HILL: White House Social Secretary Desiree Rogers is known for her keen fashion sense. She`s also, according to "People," the woman to know in Washington which helped land her on this list.

White House chef Sam Kass came to Washington with the Obamas and quickly made an impression.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has a nice kind of gritty, urban, Chicago thing going.

HILL: He`s also under 30, along with two other staffers on the list, Reggie Love, the president`s 27-year-old personal aide and Mr. Obama`s speechwriter, Jon Favreau, also 27.

The president`s money man, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner made his first appearance along with chief-of-staff, Rahm Emanuel. Plenty of high- powered administration staffers. But how does the White House feel about "People" calling them beauties?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think everybody knows that it`s all in good fun.

HILL: Officially the answer is "no comment." But in a town dealing with issues like the economy and a possible pandemic, a little fun may be just what they need.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HAMMER: That was CNN`s beautiful Erica Hill for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

All right. So one very important person, not on "People`s" Barack`s beauty list - Vice President Joe Biden. You`ve got to listen to what happened when the "Today" show`s Matt Lauer broke the bad news to the VP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": On a very serious personal note, "People" magazine came out with its magazine of the most 100 most beautiful people in the world, Mr. Vice President. In it is a section on "Barack`s Beauties." And in that section, Michelle Obama, Chief-of-Staff Rahm Emanuel, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, even the assistant to the president, Reggie Love. And Mr. Vice president, you were not on the list. How disappointed are you? .

JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT: I`m extremely disappointed. Rahm made it and I didn`t. I mean, I am really disappointed.

LAUER: Better luck next year, sir.

BIDEN: I wish you hadn`t told me that. It ruined my whole day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Oh, sorry, Joe. Well, another beauty, Miss California, is on the like and dislike list of a lot of people tonight because of her brand-new push against gay marriage.

Well, the "Showbiz on Call" phone lines have been ringing nonstop. More calls coming in on this than anything else in a while.

And we`ve got a call into "Showbiz on Call" from Kathryn from the state that Prejean represents, California. Now, Kathryn does not like what Miss Cali does believe in, but she respects her opinion.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KATHRYN, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Miss California was asked a question about her opinion and she gave it. And although I don`t agree with her at all, I respect her opinion plus the fact that she was honest. And that`s what Americans are all about, isn`t it? Free speech?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HAMMER: All right. Kathryn, thanks for your call. We also heard from Aniva calling into "Showbiz on Call" from Georgia, also a resident of California and she wants the crown to be stripped.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ANIVA, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: I`m a resident of California and I definitely don`t want her representing my state. She can`t speak for everyone. I have gay friends and I love them. They are very pleasant. God is the only one who can judge, not people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Thanks, Aniva. You can call us at "Showbiz on Call." And that said, you let us know what you think about this or anything else. The "Showbiz on Call" phone lines open all the time 1-888-SBT-BUZZ; 1-888-728- 2899. Please, leave us a voicemail so we can play your calls here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

And your calls to "Showbiz on Call" also on our homepage at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight.

Well, you know that Donald Trump, who is the co-owner of the Miss Universe pageant is just loving this publicity. Well, tonight, I can tell you he`s coming to the Miss California`s defense in the whole gay marriage controversy. You don`t want to miss what he`s revealing, coming up.

Also tonight, too fat, too skinny - two big stars and two big weight controversies. Kirstie Alley puts the weight back on but does she have anything to apologize for? Also, is it really fair to attack a super-thin beauty queen and call her scary skinny?

Also this -

(MUSIC)

HAMMER: YouTube singing star Susan Boyle supposedly has all of these film and TV deals in the works. So is Catherine Zeta-Jones really going to play her in a movie? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.

Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.

(CAPTION READS: Eva Longoria makes "People en Espanol`s" "Most Beautiful" list. Disney buys stake in "Hulu.com" which will put ABC content on the video site.)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAMMER: Boy, time flies, doesn`t it? Mariah Carey and Nick Cannon are celebrating their one-year wedding anniversary. After a hush-hush wedding last April, well, this time around, they had a big old party in Las Vegas at the Palm`s Hotel.

Cannon surprised Mariah with a video of their year together and that just brought tears to her eyes. These two seem pretty solid.

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer with some more stories that are making news right now. Tonight, Heidi Klum opens up to Ellen about her pregnancy. Heidi and husband Seal have three kids, two boys they had with each other and a girl from Heidi`s previous relationship. And Heidi says that while she`s thrilled, the fourth will probably be the last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW": Now, is this something that you were planning? You were hoping to have another child - because you have already like six or seven, don`t you?

HEIDI KLUM, SUPERMODEL: No, we have three. We weren`t planning but we also weren`t not-planning either. You know, we were kind of leaving it open. You know, we were always looking around the table and always thought, you know, one more would be nice. And we kind of took one baby at a time and every time we thought - yes, one more and that`s it. Yes, maybe one more after this. But I think now, it`s the first time I feel like, this is it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Heidi says she will probably find out the sex of the child at the end of the month. You can check out "Ellen" on Monday for more of the Heidi Klum interview.

Well, Madonna setting the record straight about reports that she`s going to give her kids to ex-husband Guy Ritchie this summer while she`s on tour in Europe. And she`s using Twitter to set the record straight.

SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you in a tweet to gossip guy Perez Hilton, Madonna says, quote, "What is this rubbish about me dumping my children off for the summer while I`m on tour? They go where I go."

And the shocking death of one of the biggest stars in Las Vegas. I`m so sad to report that Danny Gans died today in his sleep. Danny was in Vegas for more than 10 years. He was a great singer. He did wonderful celebrity impressions. CNN`s Larry King, who was a friend, had only great things to say about Gans.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE" (through telephone): I have to tell you, he was the best performer I have ever seen. I include Sammy Davis, Jr. He was the best. He was the funniest. He was the best impressionist and a great, great singer. He had all three combined.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HAMMER: Yes, I got to know Danny a bit as well. Just an extraordinary man. No word yet on the cause. Danny Gans leaves behind a wife and two daughters. He was 52.

Well, now, the SHOWBIZ lineup. Here`s what is coming up on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

Too fat, too skinny? Should Kirstie Alley be apologizing for putting on all that weight and is it fair to attack a super-thin beauty queen by calling her scary skinny?

Donald Trump defends Miss California in the great gay marriage debate.

And is Catherine Zeta-Jones really going to play Susan Boyle in a movie? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.

Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.

(CAPTION READS: Hip-hop couple Kelis and Nas to divorce. Kelis is seven months pregnant. Recession special: Coldplay to give out free CDs at all of their concerts.)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAMMER: Now on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, too fat, too skinny? Kirstie Alley apologizes to Oprah for gaining back all of that weight. But does Kirstie really need to say she`s sorry? Plus, is it fair to attack a beauty queen and call her scary skinny? It`s the brand new SHOWBIZ weight debate.

Donald defends Miss Cali. Tonight, Donald Trump speaks out for Miss California in a fired-up gay marriage debate.

And caught on tape - Sarah Palin on the couch with a big, old dead bear.

Plus, more stories breaking from the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker.

TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now.

(MUSIC)

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

Tonight, too skinny, too fat. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT brings you the explosive great weight debate after Kirstie Alley`s humiliating weight gain apology on Oprah. And then, an Australia beauty queen who`s under fire for being too skinny.

New tonight, Kirstie Alley says she is sorry for being fat. What? Her puzzling apology plus her brand-new, very public, very difficult weight loss promises to Oprah.

And the weight debate rages on with this Miss Universe contestant who at 5`11" and 117 pounds is under fire for too skinny. Is it wrong to judge her for being thin? Too skinny? Too fat? I`m wondering where the middle ground is here.

Well, tonight, in New York, it`s Carolina Bermudez, who`s a senior editor for "In Touch Weekly." Also, tonight, in New York, Steven Smith, who is a music and pop culture expert.

All right, guys. I want to begin with Kirstie Alley who, a year and a half ago, came out on Oprah, decked out in a bikini after losing 75 pounds while she was the face of Jenny Craig.

Well, now, she`s gained all that weight back and then some. And she`s just gone back on Oprah to apologize. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRSTIE ALLEY, ACTRESS: I really am sorry for the people that I letdown. I really want to inspire them.

OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Well, wait a minute. I don`t think you let people down, because the people who were inspired by you - they are doing really well. They are skinny.

ALLEY: I know.

WINFREY: They are skinny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Carolina, help me out here. I`m a little confused. Do you think she really feels like she should owe everybody an apology?

BERMUDEZ: I think she feels like she should owe everyone an apology but she doesn`t. It just gives us the insight into how badly she`s feeling about herself and about this situation. I think the main concern for Kirstie is to be healthy. It doesn`t matter if she`s a size six or a size 10.

It`s about being healthy and incorporating exercise and really coming to grips with what looks like it may be an eating disorder.

HAMMER: And she is really down on herself about this. What really struck me in the whole "Oprah" appearance is how many times Kirstie kept calling herself fat. She kept saying she was humiliated. Steven, over to you, does she have anything to be apologizing for in your mind?

STEVEN SMITH, MUSIC AND POP CULTURE EXPERT: Not in the slightest. She`s just being herself. Everyone struggles with weight. We all do. We all need to eat less and exercise more, take good care of ourselves. And she tried. She tried as a public figure and failed. Well, I shouldn`t say "failed." She just is a little weaker right now and she has to get her strength back.

HAMMER: Well, she certainly knew the right venue to talk about this, because Oprah certainly knows where Kirstie`s coming from. Let`s take a look at Oprah back in 1988. If we could put that picture up. It`s Oprah in her skinny jeans after she lost 67 pounds.

Remember how amazing this was? And this was the beginning of a lot of highs and a lot of lows for Oprah Winfrey. Well, watch what happens when Kirstie makes another public promise to get her bikini body back in just six months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEY: By November, I have to look ripped.

WINFREY: By November? Come on, that`s six months.

ALLEY: Can`t I look ripped by then?

WINFREY: Here`s what I`m asking you to do -

ALLEY: Yes.

WINFREY: I want to you do it in your own time.

ALLEY: OK.

WINFREY: And do it in a way that`s going to be good for you.

Alley: Love her. My mentor -

WINFREY: Yes, I don`t want you to do on national television - set yourself up for November.

HAMMER: And she is setting herself up there. Oprah certainly learned the hard way by making big weight promises. Oprah and Kirstie are really, as Steven pointed out, like a lot of people out there who lose weight and then they gain it back.

Carolina, do you think it`s a big mistake for Kirstie to make such a big public promise like that?

BERMUDEZ: Personally, it`s a huge mistake. Because then, you`re accountable to everyone. Then, everybody is scrutinizing every little nook and cranny on your body. So no, I don`t think that she should have given herself a six-month time limit.

And if you remember, when Oprah came out with that big slab of meat, she did it in a very unhealthy way and she ended up gaining the weight back. So I think that Oprah`s advice was great to her. Do it in your own time. Do it in your own way, and she can come back and be comfortable with herself. I think that`s the most important thing here.

HAMMER: Yes. And we`re seeing this go on with so many different celebrities. Of course, Valerie Bertinelli, another big star right there. She shed some big weight very publicly when she became the face of Jenny Craig after Kirstie left.

Valerie is 49 years old. And her debut in a bikini last month, wow, all of our jaws were dropping when that picture came out.

But again, we`ve seen Oprah go through the weight loss and gain. We`re seeing Kirstie do it again now. Steven, are we starting to see perhaps a dangerous trend here with some of America`s favorite celebrities? Because it`s certainly sending various messages.

SMITH: I think it`s a dangerous trend for people in general. Yo-yo dieting is bad. It`s going to hurt you. You`re not going to trick your body enough to stay healthy. And Valerie Bertinelli - she went on the program and she worked her ass off. And I feel bad for Kirstie Alley because she`s got a little more ass to work off.

HAMMER: Yes. And this has really become, as I`ve said, a big part of how a lot of people identify her now. They don`t think of her so much as an actress. They think of her as somebody who is always going through this weight struggles. And I`m guessing that`s not what she wants.

And whether people would like to admit it or not, a lot of people do judge Kirstie. They judge Oprah for her weight gain.

But how do you guys judge this? Take a look at this. Australian beauty queen, Stephanie Naumoska. She`s now sparking controversy for being 5`11" and weighing only 117 pounds. She is at the complete other end of the weight debate.

Carolina, you know, you look at that and you think, it seems like you can`t win at all here because you`re too fat or you`re too thin.

BERMUDEZ: You can`t win. And you know, the thing that`s scary about this is that when women are in pageants or as we saw a couple of years back with fashion models and weight limits and weight restrictions - I mean, here`s the thing. If you are dieting to the point where you can see your skeleton, it`s going to be a problem.

And as a society we have to stop celebrating these thin people and saying, "This is what you need to look like," because we`re raising a generation of young women that are just not going to feel comfortable with themselves at all.

HAMMER: Yes, but Carolina, you look at that picture and this woman says, "I do eat. I am normal with how I eat. I`m just young and this is how my body is." I mean, how can we get around the fact - and we`ve heard from a lot of our viewers, that they are not happy about the fact that we`re calling her out on being so super skinny and setting this example because she says she`s healthy.

BERMUDEZ: That`s a freak of - I don`t mean this in any other way or in a bad way - but that`s really a freak of nature. Because you can`t - being that tall and weighing that little, you have to really limit your calorie intake. And if she`s working out, is she working out too much?

I mean, there are a lot of different factors that go into it. And I think that the message that it sends to young women is that being this skinny and being this gaunt is a beautiful thing when it`s not.

HAMMER: Steven, what do you think? So much talk about being too fat or too skinny. Where the heck is the middle ground here?

SMITH: I think the middle ground is just being happy with yourself. I think pageants are some of the worst things for women and I think they give a very bad self-image and they make you expect too many things. I`m not a fan of them in the slightest. I`m also not a fan of seeing someone`s pelvis through their epidermis. That`s horrifying.

HAMMER: Yes.

SMITH: I think she does have a problem and I think it`s something she`s not saying.

BERMUDEZ: Steve likes some curves. Steve likes some curves on a girl.

SMITH: I do.

BERMUDEZ: I love that.

SMITH: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

HAMMER: Well, Carolina, what do you think about that in terms of where the middle ground is here? Because, you know, the problem is, as a society and particularly with celebrities, you know, in the case of Kirstie and Oprah, we hear people talking about how fat they may have gotten - those are the words that people use. Or in the case of that super-skinny model, how she`s way too thin. Where is that middle ground?

BERMUDEZ: There is no middle ground. I think that I have to agree with Steven and say that it`s all about being comfortable with yourself. There are women whose body makeup is not going to be - you`re never going to be a size two if you`re a medium frame, if you`re tall or - you know, there are so many other factors that go into it. And you can`t beat yourself up, people. Let`s give ourselves a break. Just be you and be happy with who you are.

HAMMER: Yes. Just be healthy and that is it at the end of the day. And let`s look to our celebrities to set some good examples for us. Carolina Bermudez, Steven Smith, I thank you both.

Well, let`s turn it over to you. We have been asking you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day - "Kirstie Alley`s Weight Gain: Does she have anything to apologize for?" Let us know what you think by voting at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight. You can always email us at showbiztonight@cnn.com.

I`ve got to say, it`s about time we heard from Miss USA`s head honcho, Donald Trump about the Miss USA anti-gay marriage controversy.

Tonight, The Donald is coming to the defense of Miss California. And you know what? He`s not alone. It`s the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT viewer`s, too. And I`ve got the Donald`s brand-new comments and your fired-up showbiz on call phone calls, coming up.

Also, this -

(MUSIC)

Tonight, is Catherine Zeta-Jones signing up to play YouTube singing sensation Susan Boyle in a new movie? Or is it all a tabloid tale.

And Paula Abdul absolutely embarrassed, humiliated by a big star and it`s all caught on tape. Wait until you hear about this one. This SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.

And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.

(CAPTION READS: Farrah Fawcett`s son, Redmond, to enter rehab, avoids jail time for drug charges. Daughtry, Slash, No Doubt on tap for "American Idol" rock week.)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

HAMMER: Did you see this? It`s a parrot that dances. His name is Snowball and he was rescued by a group called Bird Lovers Only. And it`s a good thing because he not only dances, Snowball the cockatoo, can whistle his tune as well.

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

Tonight, the Miss California gay marriage debate explodes. And brand- new tonight, Donald Trump, the man who owns Miss USA pageant, the king of controversy, is actually coming to the defense of Miss California. This after Miss California spoke at a press conference for an anti-gay marriage group and appeared in their new ad against same-sex marriage.

And wait until you hear the shocking results of our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT poll where we asked if Miss California should lose her crown. Our "Showbiz on Call" phone lines have just been absolutely slammed with your fired-up calls.

Joining me tonight in New York, Midwin Charles who is an attorney for Midwin Charles and Associates. Also in New York, Ben Widdicombe who is a celebrity editor for "StyleList.com."

All right. Let`s begin with Donald Trump`s defense of Miss California. In a brand-new interview, Trump, who owns the Miss USA pageant says he doesn`t think the beauty queen should lose her crown.

Here`s what he says, quote, "No, I think she should do whatever she wants. A lot of people agree with her. A lot of people don`t. Certainly, she`s been true to , that`s how she feels."

Midwin, should we at all be surprised that Trump is backing up Miss California?

MIDWIN CHARLES, ATTORNEY, MIDWIN CHARLES ASSOCIATES: We shouldn`t. I mean, just like you said, he owns the Miss USA competition or pageant or have you. And so he has a proprietary interest in this. It`s important for him to support her in that regard.

And also, it just keeps everyone buzzing about the Miss USA pageant. So it`s actually quite spectacular. And we all know that Donald Trump is a wizard at publicity and marketing. So of course he was going to weigh in on this.

HAMMER: Yes, let`s talk about that for a moment. And I need to point out Donald Trump is actually the first person from the pageant`s side to actually publicly support Miss California.

Ben, we do know how Donald Trump operates, even though he may deny it. You know he just loves this publicity.

WIDDICOMBE: A.J., I don`t think Donald Trump has ever seen a controversy or a pair of fake breasts paid for by the Miss USA organization that he hasn`t wanted to jump right in the middle of.

And much as it pains me to agree with this blowhard, when he says, you know, Miss California has a right to her opinion and a right to be true to her values, I think the guy has a point.

HAMMER: Yes, but at the same time, he knows exactly what to say and how to be politically correct and often how to say a whole lot without saying anything at all.

I`ve got to show you the shocking results of our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. This is what we`ve been asking on air and online - "Anti-Gay Marriage Campaign: Does Miss California deserve to lose her crown?"

And you may find this surprising. A whopping 73 percent said, no, she does not deserve to lose her crown. Only 27 percent said yes she should lose it. A lot of outrage has been directed at Miss California over how vocal she has been in her anti-gay marriage stance.

Midwin, are you surprised that so many people are actually supporting her?

CHARLES: I`m not, not particularly of the views that she has taken. But I think a lot of people understand that she has the First Amendment right to speak her mind. And I think a lot of people feel that she`s kind of getting browbeaten in a way that`s a little bit unfair. I mean, we encourage women to speak their minds.

And as I have said before on this show, pageants oftentimes are often known for objectifying women. And the fact that she had spoken her mind, I think, is a good thing. Do I agree with her position? No. But I think that`s one of the reasons why you see so many people supporting her.

HAMMER: Yes. Well, it`s funny you say, you know, pageants are known for objectifying women. And maybe this balances out a little bit. But I don`t know - just looking at this screen right here. It still seems like there`s a whole lot of that going on.

CHARLES: Oh, yes.

HAMMER: The "Showbiz on Call" phone lines, by the way, have been exploding over this whole controversy. So many calls are coming in. Everybody is fired up.

We heard from Becky in California. Beck called into "Showbiz on Call" to say, bravo to Miss California.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BECKY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: I believe that she did a wonderful job not compromising herself as a human being. She kept herself true to herself. If winning the crown means giving up your moral and valued opinion and your freedom of speech, then the crown is not worth it. I think she did an excellent job. And she has nothing to be ashamed of and everything to be proud of.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HAMMER: All right. Thanks a lot, Becky. I appreciate your call. And that really was exactly Donald Trump`s point.

Ben, do you think that now that the Donald has taken Miss California`s side, a lot more people will begin to cut her a break where maybe they weren`t before?

WIDDICOMBE: Well, you know, Donald`s endorsement will have that much difference. Because as your poll indicates, people don`t disagree that she has a right to her opinion. All of the hate from this controversy is coming from what that opinion was.

And you know, there are really two things that are offensive to gay people about Miss California. First, those ear rings - what is up with those? And second, her opinion that everyone shouldn`t have equal rights.

So I think that`s central issue. People are pretty fired-up one way or the other on that. There are a lot of fence-sitters. But does she have a right to her opinion? Of course, she does.

HAMMER: Yes. I have not mentioned this before. People are shocked and outraged over those earrings. We have gotten a couple of calls about that as well. We did get one call from Curtis in Alabama. He called into "Showbiz on Call" to say that as a gay man, he finds all of the drama surrounding Miss California just outrageous.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CURTIS, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: I`d like to say that this whole Miss California drama is outrageous. This is not about gay marriage. It`s about people trying to take away her constitutional right to speak her mind.

I`m a gay young man myself and hope to be married one day. And while I do not agree with what she said, I will defend to the death that she has the right to say that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HAMMER: All right. Thanks a lot, Curtis. And we are hearing that from so many people. Midwin, I`m going to toss this to you - an interesting thought to ponder here.

As explosive as all this has been so far, if Miss California did lose her crown, if Donald Trump did come in and say, "Yes, yank the tiara off her head," do you think the firestorm then would be even bigger than what we`re experiencing now?

CHARLES: Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, she`s done nothing wrong. Is she violating any rules Miss California has on the books in terms of speaking her opinion on this issue? I don`t know.

And if that`s the case and she loses her crown, then so be it. But I definitely think you`re going to start an entire new controversy if her crown is yanked from her head just for saying that.

HAMMER: Yes. It looks like that`s not happening any time soon.

CHARLES: No.

HAMMER: But we`ll be watching. Midwin Charles, Ben Widdicombe, thank you both.

Is there a bear in Sarah Palin`s house? You have got to see this brand-new video of Sarah Palin and a dead bear.

Plus, is Catherine Zeta-Jones signing up to play YouTube sensation Susan Boyle in a

Time for making it work. This is where we reveal the zeta-Jones signing up to play YouTube sensation Susan Boyle in a brand-new movie? Well, the SHOWBIZ truth squad is on the case. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.

It is time now for making it work. This is where we reveal the secrets of how stars make their relationships work in Hollywood and beyond.

Tonight, "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" star Hugh Jackman. Jackman has been married to actress Deborra-Lee Furness since April of 1996. And he says the key to their success is choosing family before work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: If you don`t make your marriage or family life your priority, you`re going to be on pretty shaky ground. So at any point in my life, in choosing this film or that film, I always make sure that it`s me and my wife decide together. Is this good for our marriage or not? Is this good for our family or not? And if you do the good, you`d be pretty safe. It sounds simple, but it`s not always so easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" is in theaters right now.

And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.

(CAPTION READS: Steven Spielberg to co-host President Obama`s Hollywood fundraiser. 28.2 million viewers watched President Obama`s Wednesday night press conference. 21.8 million viewers watched "American Idol" the same night.)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAMMER: Did you see this? It`s a brand-new video of a 22-year-old Susan Boyle doing Streisand, as in Barbara Streisand. Scotland`s "Daily Record" uncovered this 1984 video of Boyle singing "The Way We Were." She was in front of a room of football fans.

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

Tonight, two big stories involving two big-time stars has the SHOWBIZ truth squad working overtime. Does Catherine Zeta Jones really want to play YouTube singing sensation Susan Boyle in a movie?

Well, reports were flying that Zeta-Jones wanted the role of the superstar spinster but her reps tell the SHOWBIZ truth squad she was never even interested.

Did Paula Abdul get punked by "Borat" star Sasha Baron Cohen? Well, the SHOWBIZ truth squad says this is true. In a new radio interview on KISS FM`s "Johnjay and Rich Show," Abdul admits she was duped into the interview with Cohen`s off-the-wall flamboyantly gay Austrian reporter character, Bruno.

Paula originally denied being pranked. But then, one night, she woke up in a cold sweat only to realize that she was, in fact, duped. Another SHOWBIZ truth squad case closed.

Did you see this? Everybody knows Sarah Palin is an avid hunter, right? She enjoys hunting moose, among other things. But you have to see this brand-new video. This is unbelievable. Gov. Palin getting interviewed by the guys from TLC`s "American Chopper." They`re just talking about building a motorcycle in honor of Alaska`s 50th anniversary. Really, no harm in that, right?

But while you`re watching this, you might just notice the giant stuffed bear that was originally shot and killed by her father over Palin`s shoulder. It`s huge!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You snowmobile?

GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK): Oh, yes. Snow machine, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of snowmobile do you have?

PALIN: I`ve got an Arctic Cat. We`ve got a couple of different kinds, different race machines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you really?

PALIN: I inherit whatever Todd rejects from the year prior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your husband is a real big enthusiast in snowmobiling.

PALIN: Yes. He loves it. Yes. We love those motor sports. It means so much to the State of Alaska that these guys are building this bike that will honor statehood here where we`ve been a state for 50 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Really? OK. You can watch Sarah Palin and that big old bear on "American Chopper," Thursday, on TLC.

And that is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. You can always catch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on the 11:00s - 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, and in the morning on weekdays at 11:00 a.m. Eastern on HLN.

END

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