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Nancy Grace
Three-Year-Old California Boy Kidnapped in Home Invasion
Aired May 04, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. In a sleepy suburb, San Bernardino, California, a mom and her five children heading out for a local park when two gunmen blast brazenly into the home, right through the front door, force the family face down on the living room floor, bound, threatened. But that`s not the problem. They take the 3-year-old baby boy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities in California are on high alert after 3-year-old Briant Rodriguez was kidnapped at gunpoint from inside his own home. Investigators say two men armed with handguns charged through the front door and tied up Briant`s mother and four siblings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was trying to ask her maybe, Do you know the people? Do you have any enemies? Like, No, no. Just going crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After ransacking the house, taking money and property, the suspects escaped with little Briant in an unidentified vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just said we`re going to take her son and take him to Mexico and kill him. They told her that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The boy, his name is Briant Rodriguez, he was wearing a yellow shirt, blue striped shorts and black sandals when he was taken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a lot of investigators on the case hoping to help identify these suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police continue to search for clues, hoping to bring the 3-year-old to safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light- colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, tot mom`s defense says they`re leaving town. They say they will not get a fair trial in her own back yard. Motion to change venue filed.
And after a disastrous PR junket by grandparents George and Cindy, including a botched appearance on Oprah, another, more experienced member of tot mom`s expensive fleet of lawyers on camera. Linda Kenney Baden claims the death penalty is all just a big strategy. And she explains tot mom`s non-stop boozing and partying when Caylee disappears as tot mom`s own special way of grieving. OK.
A local investigative article does a little digging on tot mom`s lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, and the skeletons come running, shrieking from the closet. This after hundreds of secret police files just released send the state`s case into turmoil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Moments ago, we filed our motion for change of venue.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Can someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!
JOSE BAEZ: We initially wanted to keep the location sealed and secret.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no one to comfort me but myself.
JOSE BAEZ: Our motion specifically requests that this trial be moved to south Florida.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I know what I`m honestly up against. You guys understand what I`m honestly up against. And with keeping me here, you`re not helping me help myself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Members of the local community have already formed their opinions without even hearing one piece of evidence.
CASEY ANTHONY: And I`m sorry to say that.
CINDY ANTHONY: We don`t have the means to get you out anyway, sweetheart. We don`t.
JOSE BAEZ: This case has become deeply embedded in this community.
CASEY ANTHONY: I understand that, but the opportunity was there and it wasn`t taken advantage of and...
CINDY ANTHONY: We didn`t have an opportunity. I don`t know where you`re hearing that.
CASEY ANTHONY: Give Dad the phone, please. I`m sorry. I don`t want to get frustrated. Just give Dad the phone.
JOSE BAEZ: It is in the center of this media frenzy that Casey Anthony stands trial for her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. A mom and her five children heading out for a local park when two gunmen blast brazenly into the home right through the front door, force the family face down on the living room floor, bind and threaten them. But that`s not the big problem. They take the 3-year-old baby boy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have issued an Amber Alert for a 3-year-old boy who was kidnapped by two gunmen inside his own home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With tears in her eyes and a noticeable strain in her voice, Rosalina Mian (ph) told us what happened when two men armed with handguns made their way into her San Bernardino home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say the men, who were each carrying handguns, burst through the front door and tied up the boy`s mother and five children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rosalina says the men grabbed her son, 3-year- old Briant Rodriguez, covered his mouth with tape and told her they planned to take him to Mexico and kill him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspects robbed the home and told the mother and children not to call police. The men then fled in an unidentified vehicle, taking 3-year-old Briant Rodriguez with them. One of the children was able to free himself, then untied the rest of the family. Police are desperate to find the boy, along with the two suspects, who investigators believe are unrelated to the family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are really just hoping for help from the community, anybody who may see Briant, to contact their local law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jo Kwon, reporter with KABC Talk Radio 790. Jo, what can you tell us?
JO KWON, KABC TALK RADIO 790: Well, basically, the family was sitting at home, you know, on Sunday afternoon, and these two armed men come in and they ransack the home. They take some cash, a cell phone, and they take the son. And now authorities are looking for him.
GRACE: Out to Stacia Glenn, crime reporter with "The San Bernardino Sun." She interviewed family members of Briant Rodriguez. Stacia, what more can you tell us? I mean, all that was stolen was a cell phone and a minor amount of money, is that correct?
STACIA GLENN, "SAN BERNARDINO SUN" (via telephone): That`s correct. They took nothing else from the house, including a flat-screen TV.
GRACE: Interesting. Stacia Glenn from "The San Bernardino Sun" has interviewed the family members. I understand the father was at work. What are his work hours, and where does he work?
GLENN: You know what? We`re not sure too much about his job. He didn`t want to talk too much. He spent most of the afternoon just sitting on the back porch, his head in his hands, obviously very upset.
GRACE: I`m sorry, Stacia, I could not hear you. Would you repeat?
GLENN: Oh, sure. I said we don`t know too much about the father`s work schedule. All we know is that he was at work, and that today he was just sitting home on the back porch, head in hand, just obviously very upset about his son`s abduction.
GRACE: Stacia, tell me the circumstances of the home invasion. It`s my understanding that this home is in a sleepy suburb, directly across the street from an elementary school?
GLENN: That`s right. They live right across the street from an elementary school. And they were just getting ready to go to the park when these two men came in the door. It had been left open because the family was getting ready to leave. And they tied up the family with tape and took the little boy after just stealing very small things from the home.
GRACE: Small things like what, Stacia Glenn, besides that cell phone?
GLENN: They took the cell phone and they took some money the mother had in her jacket pocket, and that appears to be all.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to Jo Kwon with KABC Talk Radio 790. Did anyone in the neighborhood see anything? Didn`t this go down around 2:15 PM on a Sunday afternoon?.
KWON: That`s correct. It happened in the afternoon. Unfortunately, not a lot was seen. They couldn`t even get a car description. Right now, not a lot is known other than there`s two 18-year-old and a 24-year-old Hispanic male suspects. So other than that, looks like not many people saw what was going on.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Join me tonight, felony prosecutor Eleanor Dixon out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, also out of Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, and Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York. Eleanor, weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Nancy, it`s real interesting because you wonder what they were looking for in the house. Usually, burglary`s the motive or they`re trying to even up the score from a drug deal. It sounds like they...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Back to Eleanor Dixon. Even up a drug score? Eleanor, have you personally, in all the thousands, literally thousands of cases you have handled, be it plea or trial -- have you ever had a case where a child was kidnapped to even up a drug debt?
DIXON: I haven`t had one like that. Usually...
GRACE: That`s a no.
DIXON: That`s a no. However, it`s a possibility because why would somebody take a child out of all the people in the apartment?
GRACE: That is just your scenario you came up with about a drug debt. And that`s been floating around. But I see nothing in these facts -- out to you, Alex Sanchez -- to suggest this is about a drug debt. And if it was about a drug debt, why not take that expensive flat-screen? Why take the mom`s cell phone? And what drug dealer wants to be saddled with a 3- year-old baby boy? How`s that going to help anything?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Drug dealers are some very bad people, Nancy. This family was...
GRACE: Oh, thanks!
SANCHEZ: ... clearly being targeted...
GRACE: You know, could you show Sanchez a moment?
SANCHEZ: This family was being targeted...
GRACE: That`s your analysis?
SANCHEZ: ... and you can be...
GRACE: You went to law school...
SANCHEZ: You can be...
GRACE: ... and you practice law and your analysis is drug dealers are bad people?
SANCHEZ: And you can be certain that the police are investigating whether or not there`s some facts that they have not yet learned about which has led to this particular family being targeted by these thugs.
GRACE: Alex Sanchez, I know this is difficult for any lawyer, including myself, but please give me a yes/no answer. Have you ever defended a case, you personally, where a drug dealer kidnaps a child in retribution for non-payment?
SANCHEZ: I have not, Nancy.
GRACE: Thank you. Peter Odom, have you?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I haven`t, Nancy. But you have to ask these questions. And the police are asking these same questions. Why would they target this rather modest-looking home? And just from the outside, it doesn`t look as if there`d be anything in there to attract them. Maybe it`s a case of mistaken identity.
GRACE: OK. Now, let me remind everybody about the Las Vegas case that has happened within the last 18 months, where 6-year-old Cole Puffinburger (ph), absolutely adorable, was taken, was kidnapped from the home, and as it turned out, somebody in the family was, in fact, involved in drug dealing, OK? Cole Puffinburger, that`s the one case, not in my jurisdiction, that I`ve ever heard of where this has happened.
I want to go back to Stacia Glenn with "The San Bernardino Sun." Stacia, it`s my understanding that the mother says the home invaders actually say they`re taking the baby to Mexico and kill it?
GLENN: They did. They did indeed say that. The only other thing that the mother said, what the suspects said when they came in the door, was that, This is a stick-up, and then they tied up the family. And when they took Briant, they said that they were going to take him to Mexico and kill him, but they gave her no reason as to why they might do that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was trying to ask her, maybe, Do you know the people? Do you have any enemies? Like, No, no. Going crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just said they were going to take her son and take him to Mexico and kill him. They told her that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a frantic search going on right now. This is for a 3-year-old boy, Briant Rodriguez. Well, here`s what happened. He was kidnapped, broad daylight. Police in San Bernardino, California, say two guys broke in -- this was yesterday afternoon -- at gunpoint. They tie up mom. She`s got five kids. Four of them were tied up. They didn`t tie up this little guy, little Briant. Took off with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rosalina says the two men grabbed her son, 3-year- old Briant Rodriguez, covered his mouth with tape and told her they planned to take him to Mexico and kill him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still hurting for good solid leads in this case. And we`re still looking for a motive. The family members are telling us that they have no idea why this occurred. They don`t have any enemies. They`re telling us they`re not involved in anything that would lead to this sort of conduct. We don`t have a vehicle yet. We don`t have witnesses in the neighborhood. No requests for ransom to this date. We`re pretty stumped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This little boy is beautiful. Take a look. Let me get the tip line for you, 866-346-7632. Briant Rodriguez, three feet tall, just 40 pounds, brown eyes, long, brown, curly hair. He`s the youngest in the family. He loves Spider-Man and Spongebob Squarepants. And he is gone.
Out to the lines. Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I don`t think this was drug-related. And something is terribly wrong here. If you go into a house to steal something, I would have cased the joint out first and at least got the valuables. I`m not going to -- if I steal anything, it`s darn sure not going to be a kid.
GRACE: You know, Sheeba, you bring up an excellent point. Out to John Lucich, former investigator, author of "Cyber Lies." John, weigh in. What`s your thinking on the case?
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR, "CYBER LIES": Look, I don`t think they were there to take anything else but that kid and maybe some drugs or whatever that they were looking for. This is a very...
GRACE: You know what?
LUCICH: Just wait. Give me one second.
GRACE: Why do you always assume drugs? Why? What about them screams drugs at you?
LUCICH: Well, if you take a look at what`s been happening out in Arizona and Atlanta, Georgia, down by you, where they have been abducting people who have not been doing the right thing by the cartel and taking them back to Mexico and holding them as ransom -- now, these weren`t people who were just...
GRACE: OK. Just name one case. Please just name one case.
LUCICH: I don`t know of the...
GRACE: OK.
LUCICH: You could Yahoo! it and find the locations that were going on.
GRACE: You`re the one who brought it up.
LUCICH: Over 100 people out in Arizona have been abducted, and that`s a fact, OK? Just take a look at it. Now, before we go, they went there with walkie-talkies, and they weren`t -- that`s not your typical home invasion.
GRACE: Now, what about the fact that they used walkie-talkies, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, stands out to you? What difference does that make?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: You know what? None of this makes any difference to me. The reality is, is that they could have gone in and taken him because he`s a pretty little boy. I think the thing that needs to be focused on here is the fact that this little kid was taken at gunpoint under the worst imaginable circumstances, and for some inexplicable reason, no Amber Alert was -- no Amber Alert was called for over nine hours.
Now, I know they say that they need a vehicle description, but please. You know what, Nancy? An Amber Alert could very well have helped my child, but there was no vehicle description. An Amber Alert may very well have helped Sandra Cantu, but there was no vehicle description. You have to loosen up on this mindless criteria that`s been established in this country and take these things on a case-by-case basis.
And I would even suggest, going back to the original intent of the Amber Alert, which is local cops, local case, local media, and local population, and be done with all of this other nonsense because this little boy is in as much danger as a child can possibly be in.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, you are right on, as usual. And I agree with you, I don`t give a fig whether heroin, cocaine, marijuana -- don`t care if drugs were or were not involved. I don`t care! If they were involved, OK. If they were not, OK. This child`s life is at stake. And you know, Marc Klaas, as you preach to the world, the first 72 hours are critical. And we are within that time period, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: We sure are. And this is about a little boy. This is not about drugs. This is about the life of a precious child that could very well be lost now because somebody didn`t have a vehicle description. Excuse me. I think that that can`t be accepted.
GRACE: You know what, Marc? You are right. The fact that they did not issue an Amber Alert immediately reeks! It smells all the way to this studio. And I don`t understand...
KLAAS: Yes, it does.
GRACE: ... why are they so dead set -- they can`t put up a sign on those flashing signs on the interstate describing the little boy? Somebody`s probably sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic and could look over and see him.
KLAAS: But people don`t get the concept. That`s the problem. Whoever`s in charge of this program -- not only in California, this is representative of stuff that goes on all over this country.
GRACE: All over the country.
KLAAS: Whoever`s in charge of these programs don`t understand what this is about.
GRACE: I want to go back to Stacia Glenn with "The San Bernardino Sun." How were the kidnappers dressed, Stacia?
GLENN: Well, there were two of them. They were -- one was wearing, actually, a black ballcap. They were about 5-8", the other one was 5-10, believed to be about 18 and 24 years old. One of them had on a green shirt, bluejeans. And the other one had on a black shirt, black pants, black boots and a white bandanna.
GRACE: A white bandanna. They`re both relatively young.
Out to Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, joining us out of New York. Does that suggest a possible gang activity to you, Doctor?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you don`t want to extrapolate and generalize, but certainly, they were together and they`re young. You`d have to think, you know, why would they want a 3-year-old? One of the reasons they might have taken him is that he might have been the youngest of the house and the least likely to give a description or be able to call for help. But I think again, we have to focus on the fact that this innocent 3-year-old is out there and do whatever we can, whether it`s gang- related, drug-related, whatever, to get him back home safely.
GRACE: Please look, look at this little boy. He is only 3 years old. It`s still within the 72-hour period that he may be alive. The number, tip line, 866-346-7632.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: San Bernardino county sheriff`s deputies say they are working with the FBI and Border Patrol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But those investigators don`t have much to work with. They don`t have a good description of the kidnappers or even a getaway car, just this picture of Briant and his long curly brown hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two suspects that were inside the house were Hispanic males, both 18 to 24, thin, both armed with handguns. They tied up everyone, and the 8-year-old -- after the suspects left with the 3-year- old, the 8-year-old was able to free himself, get mom freed, and the mom ran to a nearby business and called deputies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, joining us from Johns Hopkins, where he`s a physician and professor of public health. Dr. Marty, thank you for being with us. Dr. Makary, they apparently bound the people with red duct tape. Certainly, they`re going to able to get fingerprints and they can go straight to AVIS (ph). Wouldn`t you imagine fingerprints or DNA?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Fingerprints, DNA, hair cells, anything that could possibly be taken to a forensic medicine lab is going to be very critical in this case. But Nancy, I`m concerned about the psychological health of the 3-year-old. Unlike a 1-year-old or a newborn, that child has assimilated and there`s going to be a significant amount of stranger anxiety which can build and amount to lasting psychological trauma.
GRACE: Dr. Makary, I`m worried about life or death right now. You know, I`ll shrink him later. I just want him to come home. But of course, you`re right.
To Marshell in Louisiana. Hi, Marshell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Y`all just answered previously, but I was concerned about the Amber Alert. Why did it take over nine hours...
GRACE: Marshell in Louisiana, you are so right on. Absolutely unacceptable. This child`s life may have been saved.
To Laurie in Georgia. Hi. What`s your question, Laurie?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are our amazing Grace.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have followed you since the days of Johnnie Cochran.
GRACE: Oh, Lord.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And you are the bomb. And we pray for you every night and your beautiful blessings. But what I wanted to know, sweetie, is do we know if all the children have the same biological father?
GRACE: They do not. This is the only child from a different union.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still hurting for good solid leads in this case, and we`re still looking for a motive. The family members are telling us that they have no idea why this occurred. They don`t have any enemies. They`re telling us they`re not involved in anything that would lead to this sort of conduct.
We don`t have a vehicle yet. We don`t have witnesses in the neighborhood. No requests for ransom to this date. We`re pretty stumped.
The two suspects that were inside the house were Hispanic males. Both 18 to 24, thin. Both armed with handguns. They tied up everyone, and the 8-year-old -- after the suspects left with the 3-year-old, the 8-year-old was able to free himself, get mom freed, and the mom ran to a nearby business and called deputies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: I`m not quite sure why everyone is obsessed on why this happened. All we know is if the mom is telling the truth it did happen and this 3-year-old boy`s life is at stake.
Take a look at little Briant Rodriguez. Just 3 years old. Taken allegedly out of the home. His home he shared with his siblings, mom and dad.
In answer to Laurie in Georgia`s question, we may have been cut off there at the end of the block. This is the father`s only biological child in the family. The other children are from another union.
Out to the lines. Lisa in Canada. Hi, Lisa.
LISA, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, Nancy. If God had a wallet your picture would be in it for all you do for everyone.
GRACE: That is about the sweetest thing anybody`s ever said to me. Thank you.
LISA: I love you. OK. My question is, I may be way off here, but is there a chance that they may be headed somewhere else? Because by saying that they`re going to Mexico, like wouldn`t that be obvious?
GRACE: Let`s see the map, Liz. Yes, it`s possible. We know that this is about 120 miles north of Tijuana there in San Bernardino. And back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, you know, I`m just going to put it out there, Marc Klaas. If these were a bunch of rich white people off Rodeo Drive nobody would be saying, hmm, what`s the motive? Are drugs involved?
Like somehow we shouldn`t put up an Amber Alert or somehow we shouldn`t care as much about this 3-year-old little boy. I mean, take a look at him, Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, he`s a beautiful little boy.
GRACE: He`s is beautiful.
KLAAS: I tell you what they could do. He is beautiful. I`ll tell you what they could do maybe to help facilitate his recovery.
You know, Nancy, there are 20 million people in this country who speak Spanish as a primary language. So it`s nice to have the poster up in English. But they also need to translate it into Spanish, and they need to saturate the Latino media because this is obviously a crime that did occur within the Latino community.
Both the suspects are Latino, the little boy is Latino, and the family is Latino as well. So I think that you may be able to find your answer by focusing on that particular population.
GRACE: To Stephanie in North Carolina. Hi, Stephanie. I think I`ve got Stephanie. Are you with me, dear?
To you, Eleanor, as we try to re-hook up with Stephanie, weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, yes, as Marc said, everybody`s concerned about a motive, and that`s what concerns me as a prosecutor because that`s what the jurors want to know when you`re trying to prove your case.
Here we have kidnapping, maybe kidnapping with bodily injury. And those are the concerns right now for that child.
GRACE: Everyone, the tip line. 866-346-7632.
To Jo Kwon with KABC Talk Radio 790, a lot of people are questioning motive here, but it seems to me that these parents, their grief is real. The mother was so distraught she had to lay up against the car when she was trying to talk in grief. And the father is beyond words is my understanding.
JO KWON, KABC 790 TALK RADIO: That`s right. I mean, the main thing is that they want to find their little boy. And yes, they are -- their little boy is missing. They were sitting there Sunday afternoon ready to go to the park, and now their son is gone.
GRACE: Everyone, there is time to make a difference. Statistically, we know that after 72 hours it is less likely the child will be alive. That time period has not passed. You are looking at a photo of Briant Rodriguez. He is just 3 years old, and he is gone. The tip line, 866-346- 7632.
Switching gears, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANN CURRY, HOST, NBC`S TODAY SHOW: A lot of the public has seen the images of your client clubbing.
LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE LAWYER: Right.
CURRY: When, some might argue, she should have been looking for her lost child. How do you, as her defense attorney, explain that behavior?
BADEN: Well, you know what -- you know you had the case for instance of Susan Smith several years ago who was looking for her lost child and yet she had killed her children. What you do when you lose somebody or someone who you love, you grieve differently. And we saw an incredible miscarriage of justice in California with the woman who was charged, Cynthia Somers, with killing her.
CURRY: You`re saying it`s not evidence if she killed her daughter?
BADEN: It is evidence of nothing.
Every single day since I`ve been on this case, which is December 11th, there has been a story, a story, a story. Even when there`s a non-story, there`s a story. So the Supreme Court`s recognized that you can`t get a fair trial a lot of times in a local media coverage.
You, for instance, the national media, gives us a fair shake. They look at the evidence. They say, well, it could.
CURRY: You`re saying the local media has not given you a fair shake?
BADEN: Absolutely not.
CURRY: Given your client a fair shake?
BADEN: Absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing Casey Anthony`s high-profile lawyer Linda Kenney Baden that was on NBC`s "Today Show" defending tot mom`s non-stop partying in the weeks and days after Caylee goes missing saying it was her own way of grieving.
Now, Linda Kenney Baden is no idiot by any stretch of imagination. She is a high-profile lawyer. She`s tried a lot of cases. She`s not some talking head that`s padded her resume.
However, I don`t think I would have compared tot mom to Susan Smith, the woman convicted of drowning all of her children. I don`t know if that`s a good look to have her up against Susan Smith. But in any event, today, venue has officially been requested to change.
Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, what can you tell me?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, Baez says he`s done a lot of research. He said that the media -- this media market in Orlando is saturated by half of more than 14,000 stories just between four months between July 15th when she was first -- we first found out about this and November 18th.
He said that the people in this area have already made up their minds in this case, which I didn`t know if that was the best thing for him to say either. He cited in his motion for a change of venue, a Web poll that was done on our Web site, WFTV.com, where 84 percent of the people who answered the poll question should prosecutors go after the death penalty for Casey Anthony, more than 17,000 people said yes.
So he`s using all of those examples. He says that Miami was less saturated with this story. Less than 3 percent -- or about 3 percent of the stories that aired during that four-month period were in Miami, and he thinks that it`s a city that can handle a high-profile case like this.
GRACE: Well, long story short, by targeting the local media and saying they have been unfair, as Linda Kenney Baden said on "The Today Show," that was wise, because they want to get the trial moved away into a bigger jury pool, a more cosmopolitan or more highly populated area.
But what Baez said in his motion, the written motion, the judge is not going to make a decision based on what they said on "The Today Show." All right? No offense, Matt Lauer and Ann Curry, but that`s not the way it works. They`re going to look at the motion filed by Baez, the other attorney on the case, which attacks all the national shows, including ours, including "Larry King," Barbara Walters, tons of other national shows.
Right, wrong, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer? He attacks all the national media. That`s not going to help him get the trial out of Orlando. That would say you can`t get a fair trial anywhere.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Yes. He says that in addition to the local coverage there`s also "The Globe," "People," "NANCY GRACE," "Larry King, "20/20," FOX News, MSNBC, CNN, all of them covering this case.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez. To you, Odom, won`t it make a difference that the defense has been talking to the media as well as the grandparents? So when they whine boo-hoo, our jury pool is tainted, they`ve been the ones giving statements.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`ve been responding to much of what the prosecution has been doing with their leaks, Nancy. And no, it won`t make a difference. Here`s why. All the defense has to show is that there`s been extensive media coverage. That`s a cinch. Secondly, that it will be impossible for them to find a fair jury pool.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We are taking your calls live, but at your request photos of the twins. Lucy and John David. 18 months old today. That was this morning. That`s her with her flute. There we are playing ball. I really believe the three of us -- there we are at the playground -- would not be here if it were not for your prayers, which I believe were heard.
Sunglasses from Aunt Jenny. Taken by Aunt Donna. Oh, yes. This is their new thing. I got them feather dusters at the grocery store. Oh, there`s mommy in the pool. Like I`m going to wear a bikini out to the kiddie pool? I`m fully dressed. There`s Lucy admiring her legs in the pool and John David drinking out of a tractor. You know, chlorine water tastes so much better than regular water.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I have not heard my granddaughter`s voice since June 16th of 2008. Do not say -- ask me that again, sir, because I will walk out of here.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Someone touches me I`m going to file harassment charges. Someone`s touching me. I`m not miking up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometime during the time she was missing, before the remains were found, the.
G. ANTHONY: You know something, if you say the remains one more time, sir, I`m walking out this door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
G. ANTHONY: How dare you say that about my granddaughter? How dare you? How dare you?
C. ANTHONY: I did my homework before I came here today, sir. I got prepared for this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What all did you do to prepare for this today?
C. ANTHONY: What I did to prepare for this is I watched your interview and I pulled three things. I pulled the -- you asked for it. She didn`t fight with me, sir. No. Let it go. Let him look like an (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on the thing. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If your daughter, throughout that time, was indicating at that time that Zanny had her, right?
G. ANTHONY: At the beginning, sir, that`s what I was told.
C. ANTHONY: You don`t have faith.
G. ANTHONY: Listen. Listen.
C. ANTHONY: And I know you don`t have faith.
G. ANTHONY: Just shut up.
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m not shutting up. Tell me I can`t pray?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to the lines. Nikki, Wisconsin. Hi, Nikki.
NIKKI, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: hi, Nancy. Oh, my god, it`s such an honor to talk to you. My daughters love you, and we watch you every night.
GRACE: You know what, the honor is all mine for you calling in. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
NIKKI: Well, I was just wondering if Casey`s actions after, you know, Caylee went missing, will that be brought up in court and in like the penalty phase? Because I feel that showed quite a bit of diabolical behavior.
GRACE: Well, Nikki, actually, in my opinion as a trial lawyer it will come up in the guilt-innocence phase as well as the penalty phase, sentencing phase, if it gets that far.
Eleanor Dixon, in you r mind, why can her partying and boozing come in in the case in chief?
DIXON: Well, Nancy, she wasn`t searching for her daughter like she told the police and her parents she was searching. These pictures show directly she`s not searching for anything. And then you can use it again in the penalty phase because you`re showing her uncaring attitude, you`re showing what the person, the diabolical personality that she has for that penalty phase.
GRACE: Out to Sanford Marks, the president of Child Tech, he is a jury consultant. Sanford, thank you for being with us. When they claim they cannot get a fair trial, fair impartial jury in their own backyard, they are targeting more cosmopolitan or more highly populated areas, but the judge doesn`t have to go there. He could send them to Jacksonville. He could send them to Tallahassee.
SANFORD MARKS, PRESIDENT, TRIAL TECH, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, he can send them to any number of cities. But you know, normally -- and I`ve done a number of change of venue surveys in high-profile cases. And there`s two things that they have to meet.
One is awareness, and the other, which is certainly true, I mean, obviously you`d need to be living under a rock somewhere if you haven`t heard about the Casey Anthony case. But more importantly is the predisposition. And that`s really something that I don`t know if they reach that just by utilizing the media reports that they have filed with this motion for change of venue.
Now there`s no doubt Miami-Dade County`s not Orange County in Orlando. And certainly the amount of news coverage in Miami is less than it is in Orlando.
GRACE: Straight out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO Radio, and thank you, Sanford Marks.
Nikki, also, there has been an investigative piece on the lead defense attorney, Jose Baez. The skeletons came shrieking out of the closet. Most of it, in my mind, so he filed for bankruptcy once. Who cares? What were the most important issues that bear on his ability to handle this case that came out in that investigative piece?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, I think what the piece was getting at, Nancy, was that he was not able to pass the -- I`m not an attorney, but I believe that in order to become an attorney you have to be able to pass certain character issues. You have to be able to show certain character -- some strength of character. And he was not able to pass those requirements.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, be specific.
JOSTAD: Right. What happened is Jose Baez got out of law school in 1997. The next year he applied to be admitted to the bar. He was denied. And the reason why -- and he actually appealed it to the Florida Supreme Court, and the "Orlando Sentinel" quotes that they said the problems were his total lack of respect for the likes of others and his lack of respect for the legal system.
GRACE: In what sense did he have a lack of respect for the legal system?
JOSTAD: Well, he had a number of problems. There was the bankruptcy. He also failed to pay child support. He was as far as $12,000 behind. Also he defaulted on a college loan. He leased a car which they felt was improper.
GRACE: Wait. But did you just say child support?
JOSTAD: Yes. Child support.
GRACE: Did I hear you say $12,000 in child support in the same sentence?
JOSTAD: That`s right.
GRACE: Would you repeat that, please?
JOSTAD: Yes. He was as far behind, according to these documents, as $12,000 in 2004.
GRACE: OK. Other than the deadbeat daddy issue, is there anything else?
JOSTAD: Let`s see. What else? They also found that he had apparently written a bad check into a diversion program to avoid jail time and had not disclosed that in the documentation to the bar.
GRACE: Ouch. OK. Writing a bad check in itself is not the end of the world. The not disclosing it to the bar is a problem.
Sanchez, Odom, weigh in. Sanchez first.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, he may have committed some unfortunate acts in the past, but the bottom line is the Supreme Court finally determined that he could be admitted to practice law.
GRACE: That`s an excellent point.
SANCHEZ: Right. So they must now agree that he`s perfectly capable of being a lawyer.
GRACE: Odom?
ODOM: That`s right. He`s got the character and fitness to be a lawyer just like any other officer of the court or member of the bar. Just like you and me, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what, between all of us here, Eleanor, I don`t care if he filed bankruptcy, I don`t care who he owed money to, if he did. I`m concerned about the deadbeat dad allegations, but my problem is, he`s never tried a death penalty case. He worked for Lexis-Nexus, which is not trying cases.
That`s a legal research computer software company. You don`t go from working from computer software to defending a death penalty case. That`s a problem I have with him.
DIXON: You`re right, Nancy. Besides, to be a death penalty lawyer, you have to be death penalty qualified, and there`s no evidence here that he is so qualified in Florida.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who will be under oath in this case, tot mom seeking a change of venue. She doesn`t want to be tried at home. Do I have to say, O.J. Simpson? If he can get an acquittal, anybody can.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL SUIT: If Jose follows it up, he`s making a mistake. He should stay right in Orlando. He`s going to find a more favorable, more intelligent, more knowing jury right there in Orlando than anywhere else in the state of Florida. And Linda.
GRACE: Why do you say that, Padilla?
PADILLA: Because the people there are not closed minded to the fact that there is a possibility that she is innocent. She`s presumed innocent and they have not foreclosed the fact that, hey, maybe there is another answer to this thing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ, HOST, CBS` THE EARLY SHOW: What do you say to people who say the evidence is hard to refute?
G. ANTHONY: Well, I guess I can answer in one way is, has any case ever gotten all this kind of exposure? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence is for trial. There is no evidence out there right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The trial has officially been set down for change of venue as of today. Where does tot mom believe she will get an impartial jury? Why can`t she get one in her own backyard according to her lawyers?
Out to the lines, Tanya, Nebraska. Hi, Tanya.
TANYA, CALLER FROM NEBRASKA: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
TANYA: Well, I have a question as it relates to the defense attorney that was in your opening piece there.
GRACE: Yes.
TANYA: Though I agree that everyone does grieve differently, it just seems to be a little different in Casey`s case, because it`s hard for her to argue her position of grieving differently unless she knew the baby was already dead.
GRACE: Excellent point, Tanya in Nebraska. And Tanya, I`ve got to tell you something about Linda Kenney Baden. She`s doing her best, but look what she`s got to work with. She`s between a rock in a hard spot. Look at this picture. How do you explain that? But she actually said, with a straight face, this is tot mom grieving.
Out to Connie in Pennsylvania, hi, Connie.
CONNIE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy, love your babies. Hey, that woman said she wants to take -- they want to take it to another area.
GRACE: Yes.
CONNIE: OK. The people in Florida have to pay for this. You know, why should they have to pay for it if they want to take it to another area?
GRACE: You know she`s right, Eleanor. It`s on the taxpayer.
DIXON: You`re right, Nancy.
GRACE: And you`ve had a lot of death penalty change of venues. Extremely expensive.
DIXON: Because you have to put up not only your witnesses, but the prosecutors, everyone.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Master-at-Arms Seaman Apprentice, Joshua Seitz, just 19, Sinking Springs, Pennsylvania. Had a smile that lit up a room. Always there to help others. Lived life to the fullest. Loved outdoors, skateboarding, snowboarding, making others laugh, and flowers. Leaves behinds parents, Diane and Lon, best friend, sister, Shauna, and brother, Lonnie. Also serving the Navy.
Joshua Seitz, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And a special good night to friends of the show, Donna, Kathy (ph), Andy, Nicole, Donna, Sheryl, Michelle, Karen, Laura, Barbara. All on one big, beautiful tennis team.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
