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Campbell Brown
President Obama Prepares to Meet With Leaders of Pakistan, Afghanistan; Face Transplant Patient Revealed
Aired May 05, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, folks, a CNN exclusive interview with a high-level Taliban official, this as President Barack Obama gets ready for crucial meetings tomorrow with the leaders of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
That's just one of the stories I will be talking about with our panel, CNN correspondent Erica Hill, chief business correspondent Ali Velshi, national political correspondent Jessica Yellin, and Lisa Bloom, "In Session" anchor and CNN legal analyst.
But, first, I want to get right to our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, in Kabul, Afghanistan, who's just had a chilling interview with a spokesman for Mullah Omar, leader of the Afghan Taliban.
Now, Nic, he made it clear the Taliban is ready for a bigger fight and has no plans to lose to the U.S.
Let's hear just a small part of your conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZABIULLAH MUJAHID, AFGHAN TALIBAN SPOKESMAN (through translator): I will clearly tell you, if there are more, we will kill them more. If there are few, we will kill them few.
If the Pentagon is thinking of changing its policy, we, too, are thinking of changing the policy. If they want to send 20,000 to start a new campaign, this is a war and we will see the war and make our policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Now, Nic, he's talking about killing American soldiers.
What was it like to have that conversation face to face?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is chilling.
When you go in the room there, you don't know if you're being set up for kidnapping. And I think, when he came in, he didn't know if he was being set up for being snatched by coalition forces, because he was nervous when he came in. You have just got to be professional and know what you have gone in to do and follow through on the interview and your questions. MARTIN: Nic, we have history here. And that is, we supported the mujahedeen when they were fighting against the Russians. Clearly, they ran the Russians out.
And, so, is history on the side of the Taliban here? And do Americans truly understand the historic nature of people who have gone to fight the Taliban in this country for centuries?
ROBERTSON: You know, if you want to think about motivation and the mind-set of the Afghans and the Taliban, 100 percent history is on their side. They have never been defeated. They have broken the back of one of the strongest and biggest armies of the world.
So, for them, this is -- this is never something that they're going to lose in their own mind. This is their psyche. This is why you -- why it's dangerous to underestimate them in that context.
COOPER: All right, Nic.
I want to go to Erica Hill right now.
And, Erica, let's talk about the military commitment to this region. President Obama has made it clear that he wants to focus on Afghanistan.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He has. And there's been a lot of talk for some time that Afghanistan was the forgotten war. So many troops in Iraq, that's what you have heard about every night on the news.
So, we just want to put in perspective where the player are, where U.S. troops are in the region. If we look at the map, which I believe we have up now, in Iraq you will see 136,000 U.S. troops. Compare that with the 45,000 in Afghanistan. But here's where it really gets important.
As things are heating up in Afghanistan and even in Pakistan where obviously this is an ally, we don't have troops there on the ground trying to fight the Taliban, but this is important, because if you look at the estimates of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan, anywhere from 2,500 to 10,000, and these estimates range because those smaller numbers are really possibly the number of hard-core fighters.
They range up to that larger number because that could be the number of supporters they have. In Pakistan, anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 Taliban fighters. So, there's a lot going on here, which also brings up some interesting points.
Today, President Hamid Karzai was saying that Afghanistan and Pakistan are like conjoined twins. Basically, whatever is going to happen here will affect both, which is so important to the balance in the region.
MARTIN: First, I want to go to Nic about that.
Nic, what about that? Are they actually on the same page, Pakistan and Afghanistan?
ROBERTSON: No. They're dire enemies. And that's part of the problem. They neither trust each other. Each one blames the other one for the problem.
And the reality is that there's a nation of 40 million people, the Pashtuns, who straddle the border of both countries, and that border has never been recognized by those people. It's a historic border the British created. People move freely across it. So, it is a joint problem, but these guys, both sides of the border, they don't trust each other. The governments here point fingers all the time, blame each other.
MARTIN: Jessica, speaking of trust, the president is meeting with these two presidents tomorrow and dealing with this issue.
But, look, he has to confront the reality that Democrats in his own party want nothing to do with Afghanistan.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's such an extreme problem. You're absolutely right.
The liberals in the party do not want the U.S. committed to any war. Afghanistan or Iraq, they don't care. So, Obey, the guy who is in charge of all the money, is saying, look, you guys have one year. You have one year to prove that you can get results on the ground in Afghanistan.
And, if it doesn't work, we're cutting off the money.
So, I'm curious, Nic, if you think that one year is enough time for the president to show results.
ROBERTSON: No way. No way.
It's going to take at least a couple of years to learn the problems on the ground. There's not a big enough civilian force coming in to energize the local tribes like we saw in the west of Iraq with the Anbar tribes who suddenly came on board, turned the tide against al Qaeda there.
To do that and undermine and pull the carpet out under the feet of the Taliban, that's not going to happen in a year. It's a tall order. The problems here are generational.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We hear a lot of talk -- and this is to the panel -- about potential damage, potential harms.
What about the actual harms to the women and girls in the regions that are controlled by the Taliban right now, girls who are never allowed to go to school, women who can't leave their home without the consent of a close male relative? When are one of the world leaders going to talk about them? When are they going to get onto the agenda when we talk about the Taliban?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: But isn't that so often a problem in wars or things that we intervene in? We worry about the potential harm, what it could mean to the rest of the world, when there are things going on.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: But no one is speaking about them. If this was a racial minority, surely we would be talking about them if they were all virtually imprisoned in their homes. Hundreds of thousands of females right now are kept as hostages in their homes.
VELSHI: But history indicates that we have not. I mean, World War II indicates that we -- even though it was an ethnic majority, it didn't have the impetus until the world was threatened by Nazi Germany.
BLOOM: Sadly, that's true.
MARTIN: All right, then.
Hey, Nic, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot, and we look forward to your amazing interview.
Folks, go to CNN.com/Campbell to read more of Nic's behind-the- scenes account. Trust me, it's something you do not want to miss. It's at CNN.com/Campbell.
Now, when we come back, we're going to show you the first person to get a near total face transplant in the country. What doctors did to help her is remarkable. Our doctor, Sanjay Gupta, will show you just how they did it.
Also:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It seems like you guys pull a lot of people over, though, and take their money and take their belongings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Gary Tuchman searches for answers in a small Texas town where those sworn to uphold the law are now accused of holding up innocent people, some say acting like pirates.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, in the spotlight tonight, our first look at a woman who made history, thanks to her doctors.
They performed the first near total face transplant in the U.S. And she's doing great. Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is here tonight to take us through this groundbreaking process.
And, Sanjay, just an amazing story.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is.
And I will tell you, as a doctor and a reporter, it's one of the most remarkable things that I have seen. As they say, you know, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Let me see if I can talk you through this a little bit here.
MARTIN: All right.
GUPTA: The woman that we're talking about is Connie Culp. She's a 46-year-old mother of two from Ohio. She was shot in the face five years ago, a terrible injury here. The things that doctors really want to know right away is exactly what happened. You see exactly how much damage was done to her face.
It was just a terrible situation for her. She had 30 operations, only to still look like this, lots of scarring, as you guys can see in there, just socked in. She was unable to breathe through her nose, unable to eat through her mouth or drink water through a cup.
She had this transplant. It's a relatively rare operation as you know. And this is what she looks like today, a pretty remarkable change.
The thing that really struck me the most, there's hardly any scarring at all. And, again, this is an operation that is just not done that frequently, but just remarkable how well she has turned out so far.
MARTIN: How many more surgeries will she have? I'm sure somebody watching is saying, anything else?
GUPTA: I think she may be done. And that's sort of the remarkable thing here. She still has a lot of swelling here.
So, let me show you something they did that is very interesting, where they sort of predict what she might look like two years from now.
MARTIN: Wow.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: And take a look at that image, so different than what she looked like in the beginning, different than what she looks like now. But that's not a bad result, considering how much of her face was gone, over 80 percent of it.
VELSHI: Sanjay, what's the difference between reconstructive surgery and a full face transplant? And how do you decide who gets what?
GUPTA: Well, usually, they are going to try and do a lot of the reconstructive operations first, try anything other than a transplant, because that's a big operation and it requires a lot of immunosuppressant drugs as well. Ali, let me just talk you through this really quick. What they do here is, this is the donor. This is an example of what the donor might look like. They take all that skin, but also the arteries, the veins, the nerves. They spin that around. They take the nasal cavity and they get that all ready for transplantation.
And then you look, look here. This is her. This is a sort of 3- D reconstruction of her. You see that scar sort of knocked in. You have got remove all that scar. You have got some of the bones and plates from previous operations and then bring that in and attach all the arteries and nerves, put that all together.
It was a 22-our operation. It took eight surgeons, but, again, you see the results there.
HILL: And she has incredible results from it, too. I have read she can now -- she's able now to eat. She can actually -- she can breathe. She can smell again.
But when you look at this, as a donor, I know you're showing how we reconstruct everything. Are they essentially trying to reconstruct what is underneath the skin to make it look as much like her face did previously, or is there a chance she might look a little bit like the donor?
GUPTA: Well, everything from the choosing of the donor, from the skin hue to the overall structure of the face, is going to be as similar as you want.
But she's not going to look anything like the donor, and she's not going to look anything like herself either. What is interesting, as well, Erica, is they don't -- they never showed her any pictures of the donor.
Now, the donor's family never met her. So, they really try and build a wall between her and the donor.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Sorry. Go ahead.
YELLIN: The shallow question of the night. What are the chances we can eventually use this for cosmetic purposes? Can we end up with Angelina Jolie's face, if we want?
GUPTA: Well, that's a question a lot of people ask. There's a couple of reasons probably why not. First of all, it just -- she looks nothing like the donor, because there's so much change just in the overall architecture, but also this is a big operation.
This isn't sort of an operation I think any reasonable surgeon would subject a patient to purely for cosmesis. I say that now. It could change. But that's...
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: There's money involved.
BLOOM: So, for people at home who may have signed those organ donor consent cards, are they consenting to the donation of their face potentially after this?
GUPTA: Right. Great question. I asked the same question.
Because you sign the thing or you sign the back of your driver's license. And this is a totally different thing as far as donation goes. In fact, they're considering this sort of as a second step. Will you donate your liver, your kidneys, your pancreas? Will you donate your face almost being a secondary thing. Because it is so associated with their identity, they're treating it a little bit differently.
MARTIN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Also, you got tested for that swine flu, coming near us?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Sanjay, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
Folks, be sure to check out CNN.com/Campbell. And we will certainly link you to a pretty cool interactive demonstration.
Even the crew is like, hey, stay away.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Inside a 22-hour surgery, that is at CNN.com/Campbell.
All right, folks, so what would you do if police threatened to throw the book at you for a minor offense or no offense at all? Would you give up everything you had, including money and jewelry? We will take you to a Texas town where people say they had to do just that.
We want to know, is it lawful or is it a police shakedown?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes, I know. That's right, the veejay, Jessica Yellin, over here.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, forget piracy on the open seas. Dozens of people say they were robbed by a band of raiders on a Texas highway. The worst part, they all had badges. Yes, they were cops.
We sent Gary Tuchman for some answers. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Hey, Officer, my name is Gary Tuchman with CNN. I want to know if you recognize this guy. We're doing a story about this guy, Roderick Daniels. He was pulled over here by you a year-and-a- half ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Folks, the police say they took people's money in the name of the law.
YELLIN: Wow.
BLOOM: Oh, no they didn't. Oh, no, they did not.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: The lawyer says no.
BLOOM: Oh, no.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: This is upsetting.
BLOOM: No, it's a horrendous story. It's an outrageous story. Tell me this is not a true story.
MARTIN: It is a true story. It was first broken by (INAUDIBLE) with "The Chicago Tribune." Then Gary has been breaking it down.
HILL: Go, Gary.
MARTIN: And these guys -- we have got more on it later. So, we will chat with Gary.
All right, folks, we're also talking about another horrendous story, Elizabeth Edwards and that whole soap opera. She knew about the other woman and how it would derail her husband's run for the president, but she kept silent. Knowing what we know now, is she an innocent victim or an accomplice to deception?
Here's what Mona from Virginia thinks.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MONA, VIRGINIA: I don't believe Elizabeth Edwards is an accomplice. She's certainly a victim. And just because she stayed with her husband, perhaps knowing what was taking place, does not make her an accomplice.
(END AUDIO CLIP) MARTIN: All right, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.
You can also find me on e-mail, Twitter, as well as Facebook -- back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: I know. That news music is back.
All right, folks, when the cop pulls you over, you know the drill. Check your license, see if all your tags, everything, is straight. Also, hand over your license and registration.
But in one small Texas town, it's hand over your money or jewelry and go to jail. But police there say it's perfectly legal. But a lawsuit claims what's happening in Tenaha, Texas, near the Louisiana state line amounts to a stop-and-seize shakedown.
National correspondent Gary Tuchman is here with this story -- Gary.
TUCHMAN: Well, Roland, the allegations are very disturbing. And it involves forfeiture laws. You see forfeiture laws in many states, including Texas.
And they are, they allow police to pull you over. And, if they suspect you're a criminal, they can then take away stuff you have in your car, like your money, your valuables, your drugs. It's a good law if it's done lawfully, because the idea is to stop criminals from making profits.
But if it's not done lawfully, it's a very bad situation. And that is what is happening in this story that we have uncovered. It's in an eastern Texas town. And what we know at this point is, the allegation is that police have taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from people who have no charges against them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): We have heard the same story over and over, drivers telling us they have been ambushed on a small stretch of Texas highway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They took everything out of the car. They took all of us out of the car.
TUCHMAN: Over the last two years, scores of drivers say they couldn't report these crimes to the police, because the men who forced them to pull over, the men who took so much from them, are the police.
DAVID GUILLORY, CLASS ACTION ATTORNEY: They're disproportionately going after racial minorities. And my take on the matter is that the police in Tenaha, Texas, were picking on and preying upon people that were least likely to fight back. TUCHMAN: This attorney has filed a class action lawsuit against law enforcement people in Tenaha, Texas, including this police officer who we found while on the job.
(on camera): It seems like you guys pull a lot of people over, though, and take their money and take their belongings.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And this district attorney who we found while she was singing country songs at fund-raiser.
(on camera): Ms. Russell, do you have any comments about these allegations?
(voice-over): They're accused of operating a plot in where innocent drivers are pulled over and told they will be charged with a felony if they don't leave behind their money. In legal filings, all the people being sued say they are complying with forfeiture laws, which allows money to be taken from suspected criminals in certain instances.
But the class action attorney says:
GUILLORY: I believe it's a shakedown. I believe it's a piracy operation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN: All right, Gary, now, you said that if they suspect criminal activity. And so how do they go about identifying people? Do they see them coming out of a crack house or something? Or they're simply just driving through the neighborhood and they say, we're going to stop you?
TUCHMAN: It's not clear. But the allegation is, they stop a lot of people. And they pull people over going 37 in a 35 or driving in a left lane for a little while, and then ask, do you have money with you?
And if people say, they have a lot of money, the allegation is, then they come up with, well, you're a money-launderer and we have the right to search your car. And that's the allegation.
HILL: But, in most cases, too, these people who have a lot of money on them, it's often not because they're laundering money, but simply because they don't -- they deal in cash.
TUCHMAN: Yes.
And one thing we should point out about Tenaha, it is only 30 minutes away from Shreveport, Louisiana, where there are a lot of casinos. So, a lot of people are going there to do some gambling.
MARTIN: Right.
VELSHI: Does anybody get their money back?
TUCHMAN: Well, that's a very interesting question.
Some people who have been very motivated have hired attorneys and have spent a couple of thousands of dollars back to get their $2,000 or $3,000 back. But that's the point. That's why it's allegedly the perfect plot, because people don't want to spend $1,000 or $2,000 to get $1,000 or $2,000 back. So, they realize, I'm just glad they let me go. I'm just glad they are not putting me in jail. They have my money. It's a lesson learned.
HILL: Crazy. And they even sign a waiver to give it away, which you wrote about in your blog.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Man, crazy story. Folks, there's more on the story later tonight on CNN. And so you definitely don't want to miss that.
Our cameras were rolling when Gary confronted one of the police officers who has been doing this and even the DA there. See it all tonight on "A.C. 360" at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Gary, look forward to it.
So, imagine you are waiting to get your lunch and the president of the United States just sort of just drops by. Would you let him cut in line? No. Get to the back, Mr. President.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: We will look out Mr. Obama's burger run with the vice president today when we come back.
We're also talking about Elizabeth Edwards and her husband's affair. She knew about the other woman and how it would derail her husband's run for president, but she said nothing. Knowing what we know now, is she an innocent victim or an accomplice to John Edwards' deception?
Call us at 1-877-NO-BULL-0, 1-877-662-8550. And drop us a line on e-mail, Twitter or Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Well, Jessica is having a disco flashback.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: I like it.
MARTIN: So, it turns out Elizabeth Edwards knew about the other woman in John Edwards' life and still worked her heart out to get him elected president.
Was she an innocent victim or an accomplice to deception? I want to get your thoughts on that, 1-877-662-8550, 1-877-NO-BULL-0.
But, first, Erica Hill is here to kick in with the briefing.
HILL: Not a lot of bull in those phone calls, I think. People are going to be pretty direct.
MARTIN: We will see.
HILL: Getting now to the briefing, for the first time, a U.S. resident with swine flu has died. The woman, in her 30s, died earlier this week in a Texas hospital. She lived in Cameron County. That's near the Mexican border. Health officials say she also suffered, though, from other chronic health problems.
Act Dom DeLuise has died. He is best known perhaps for his roles in some Mel Brooks comedies, including "Blazing Saddles" and the "Cannonball Run" movies with Burt Reynolds. DeLuise had been battling cancer and other health problems. He was 75.
A frightening moment at a big league baseball game in St. Louis. Check this out. Cardinals outfielder Rick Ankiel made a running catch. Then, look at this. He is going to slam head-first into the outfield wall here. Ow. Ankiel was carted off the field, spent the night in the hospital.
The good news here, all the tests came out OK. And, in case you're wondering, not only did the tests check out OK, but he actually made the catch. Incredible.
YELLIN: Wow.
HILL: Miss California, Carrie Prejean, maybe you have heard of her. I can't imagine where. It turns out she could be stripped of her title.
VELSHI: Oh, did you write that, stripped of her title?
MARTIN: Ah.
YELLIN: Nice.
HILL: Pun intended.
Miss USA Pageant officials say she breached her contract by keeping semi-nude pictures a secret. Prejean says the pictures were taken when she was a 17-year-old model, adding -- quote -- "I am not perfect and will never claim to be."
And President Obama grabbing a bit on the road today. The commander in chief and Vice President Biden took the White House motorcade on a burger run to an Arlington, Virginia, joint called Ray's Hell Burger. They ordered at the counter. They paid in cash. They waited for their lunch like everyone else.
And even when the manager said, we could give this one to you on the house, the president said, oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, not with this press corps here. I am not going to be seen as a freeloader.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: And he actually had cash on them. Most presidents don't carry cash.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: No.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Because he probably thought about it beforehand.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: He paid for their date night last Saturday with his personal Visa card.
BLOOM: U.S. cash money.
VELSHI: Nice.
MARTIN: You know, American Express is probably really upset right now?
HILL: That's true.
MARTIN: He paid with his visa card, not his Amex.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: I just report the facts, my friend.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: Roland, just tell us right now. Are we going to have to have this discussion at some point about semi-nude pictures of you showing up?
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: They were taken when he was 17.
MARTIN: No.
VELSHI: Yes, right, when he didn't know anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: I'm just confused about the semi-nude pictures vs. the bikini pictures in the pageant.
VELSHI: I was wondering the same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Isn't that the same amount of flesh that is exposed? (CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: You all can have that conversation as we're going to break, but I have got to read this here, so pipe down.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: When Elizabeth Edwards said she was battling cancer, she got all kinds of sympathy. Now she's telling her side of the story about her husband John's affair in a new book. But not everyone is on her side.
Bridget from Nevada, check this out, what she said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BRIDGET, NEVADA: With Elizabeth Edwards' new book, no, I don't feel sorry for her. And I think that she is part of her husband's deception.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Ooh, accomplice or a part of the deception?
Dial me up, 1-877-NO-BULL-0, 1-877-662-8550. Or e-mail me at Roland@CNN.com. If you think that she's a victim, you can also weigh in on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: You think there's a connection.
VELSHI: Yes.
YELLIN: That's Beyonce. Beyonce, yes.
MARTIN: Folks, money and Main Street right now. We're talking about your savings, your stocks, your retirement plan, as well as your decisions about what to do next.
We go to the moneyman. He's still broke, no pinstripes again today. Try us again today.
VELSHI: That's right. I know.
MARTIN: Chief business correspondent Ali Velshi is here to answer the question of the moment. The stock markets regained almost all of this year's losses, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: So is it time to invest in the stock markets again?
VELSHI: It depends.
(CROSSTALK) Let me take you over to my wall here and show you what's going on. First of all, we've been talking about this for a couple of days. The stock market has been getting some great gains. Take a look at this.
Since the beginning of January, we saw this big "V." We talked about this yesterday. March 9th was pretty much were this market hits its lows. It does not mean it will not happen again.
We're trying to figure out if that's the market bottom. And as one of my colleagues likes to say, you can break a lot of bones walking along a market bottom because as you can see, it's a little bit jagged. But guess what we got?
We're back around 900 on the S&P 500. I'm talking about the S&P 500 because that is the broader measure than the Dow.
The Dow is 30 stocks. The S&P is 500. You probably have a mutual fund, an IRA or 401(k) that looks like this.
Let's take it back. This is selective. Somebody actually sent me a message on Facebook to say it's a little selective to look at it from January.
Let's take it back to October of 2007 when the Dow was above 14,000. I've switched back to the S&P 500 again, but it looks very much like the Dow. Same shape.
Look at what happened. Look at this stuff. And this is where that credit crisis hit all the way back down. So that little "V" shape that I just showed you is right there.
We're nowhere close to being back where we should be. A long way to answer your question, Roland. What should you do?
Well, that depends on who you are. You have to do some things before you become an investor. I think that you should have a strategy to invest. But your first part of your strategy has got to be dealing with debt -- got to be dealing with credit.
If you have high interest credit, then you shouldn't be in the stock market. You should be paying these things off. Line up your credit cards. Take the biggest one, the highest interest rate, double the payment on that. Try and get that under control.
Number two, we know so many millions of people are out of work. On Friday, we're going to get a new unemployment report.
The reality of losing your job is there. You've got to have some money saved away, six months to nine months worth of savings. So deal with your credit, deal with your savings before you become an investor. Then you become an investor.
And go to CNNmoney.com/ali where you can find a quiz that you can take. It's seven questions and it will tell you what kind of investor you are, what your risk tolerance is, whether you're risk adverse or you're really risky. And guess what? At the end of that, I come out with a pie chart. You can go right to your computer, allocate your 401(k) and you're off to the races.
MARTIN: All right. A lot of people pulled their money out on October '07.
VELSHI: Oh, yes.
MARTIN: They say, look, I'm sick of this. Now, who is smart? The people who pulled out or who stayed in and said I'm going to ride this wave?
VELSHI: Well, if you had the luck to pull out your money or the dumb luck, or you knew something and you pulled your money out anywhere along that ride before October '08, you did very well. The problem is if it was a strategy to do that, then you may not have gotten in when the wind was there. You know what we're up since March 9th, about 30 percent.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR FOR TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": OK. Yesterday, you were telling us about real estate. I'm listening closely to you, Ali Velshi.
VELSHI: Yes.
BLOOM: Today is the stock market. If somebody does have a little bit of money...
VELSHI: Yes.
BLOOM: ... what's a better place for it? Real estate or stock market?
VELSHI: It depends. Again, it depends. It depends on whether you need a house and whether you're going to live in that house.
I would not treat the house as an investment. If you're looking for a house and it's affordable and you can afford it, these interest rates are remarkably low and there are great deals to be had. But the stock market is for your retirement. That's your retirement savings. It's all part of the portfolio.
YELLIN: Would it be smart for us to buy your book?
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Look at that.
Wow, it just magically appeared. Wow.
VELSHI: "Gimme My Money Back" in case you couldn't read that.
HILL: I got to give Jessica a cut.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right, folks. Ali, thanks so much.
Folks, now remember, check out our "Money and Main Street" Web page for more stories and some great tools, including how to recession-proof your career. Go to CNN.com/moneyandmainstreet.
Also a reminder, Anderson Cooper and I will be here next Thursday. I will? OK.
VELSHI: Well, you can come along. OK.
MARTIN: We have an hour-long "Money and Main Street" special program. I will take the night off. It's Thursday, May 14th, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. It will be worth your while, believe me. And you get to hang with Ali again.
VELSHI: You're all welcome.
YELLIN: Nice.
MARTIN: All right. So next up we come back, our friend, James Carville, has written a book "Looking Into America's Future." He's an oracle, and all he sees are Democrats. Now, why would he say that? We'll talk about it in just a couple of minutes, folks.
And, Jessica, the song was Amerie "One Thing" not Beyonce. Good job. Good try.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Welcome back to club CNN. Hey, Mel Brooks once said it's good to be the king. You know that movie "History of the World, Part 1"?
VELSHI: Yes.
MARTIN: Well, it's good to be Larry King. He's up next.
Larry, what do you got?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Oh, Roland, it sure is good to be the king.
(LAUGHTER)
Is that right? That was a great movie, the "History of the World, Part 1."
MARTIN: It was an awesome movie.
KING: This is a good job. This is a good job.
Joy Behar is here tonight. We've got lots to talk about. Could Miss California lose her crown? Not over gay marriage but semi-nude photos? And what does she think of John Edwards affair. We'll cover all of that. Lots coming up all ahead on "LARRY KING LIVE."
VELSHI: Larry, Larry, you're clear on the fact that she was semi-nude when she got the crown, right?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: By the way, what is semi-nude?
YELLIN: The bikini. The bikini.
HILL: The bikini she was wearing for the bikini --
BLOOM: Yes.
HILL: It's a very important bikini competition.
KING: Oh, the trials of life.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right, Larry, looking forward to it. Thank you so very much.
Folks, is this country in for a one-party future? Well, Democratic strategist and CNN political contributor James Carville says absolutely. He joins us from New Orleans. His new book is called "40 more years: How the Democrats Will Rule the Next Generation."
James, OK, are you actually buying that? Forty more years?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, if you look at history in presidential politics, parties tend to dominate in 36-year increments. We've got the Republicans dominating from 1896 to 1932, the Democrats from '32 to '68, the Republicans from '68 to '08. Combine that with the fact that younger voters voted Democratic 66-32 in this past election, you can see them coming up through the system.
I think it's quite plausible to expect that the Democrats are not going to win every election, but that they're going to be the dominant party in presidential politics for a long time to come.
MARTIN: Well, James, our political pit bull, Jessica Yellin, she's got a couple of things to say to you.
YELLIN: Come on, James, let's talk about these numbers.
CARVILLE: All right.
YELLIN: The Democrats controlled the House for 50-plus years during that time frame. They controlled the Senate for the '70s and parts of the '80s and '90s.
CARVILLE: Right.
YELLIN: And you got this guy elected, Bill Clinton, during that period.
CARVILLE: Right. YELLIN: So, why do you say that's a period of Republican dominance and why is this anything but a passing trend right now?
CARVILLE: Well, because you had 48 of the 40 years from 1968 to 2008. There were 28 years of Republican presidents, 12 of Democratic presidents. You had massive shift in the southern part of the United States to the Republican Party.
I mean, do I mean that the Democrats are going to lose some elections? Of course. I mean, Woodrow Wilson won in an era of Republican dominance, and Eisenhower won when the Democrats were absolutely the dominant party. But I think the trends in American --
YELLIN: But isn't this an Obama fad? Come on.
CARVILLE: No, I don't think it's an Obama fad at all.
YELLIN: Isn't it that Obama's popular?
CARVILLE: No. I don't think it's an Obama fad at all. I'm thinking in 2006, young voters moved 60-38 Democratic. Actually, John Kerry carried them.
As these voters come up through the system, one can expect that they're going to continue to vote Democratic. And that's what our political scientist agree on. Once someone votes twice for a political party, that's a pretty good to predict the future voting behavior.
BLOOM: James, they say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
MARTIN: And, of course, he's in New Orleans right now.
BLOOM: Now you predicted that there could be some indictments of powerful Democrats. How can we protect against that?
CARVILLE: Of course, they will be. Yes, I don't know that we can. That's human nature. That's been going on forever. And I do think that with power comes corruption.
I'm not saying there's not going to be some corruption, there's not going to be some setbacks and embarrassments to the Democratic Party. But the trend, if you look at the trend, it's pretty hard not to say that the Democrats are in a very favorable position.
I was reading a box of memo by a young woman who works for a Republican (INAUDIBLE) firm, I think by the name of Christiane Solis (ph) with the Winston group, and she's actually more bullish on the Democrats than even I am. And I think most Republicans that I spoke to before I did this book completely agreed with my hypothesis.
VELSHI: James, Ali here. Listen, what happens if somebody comes along? I mean, there's this leadership vacuum we've been discussing in the Republican Party.
CARVILLE: Right.
VELSHI: What happens if somebody comes along, fills that, has an adviser like you, a team like you had, could that derail your thesis?
CARVILLE: Well, sure. And they could win an election. I mean, look at Eisenhower. You know, he won an election. He won a war and then he came back and won an election, too. But generally, the underlying things tend to favor the Democrats.
If you look at the Republican base, where they get most of their voters, they tend to be older whites. You also have over 48 percent of the seats in the House and the Senate are held in a southern -- in the south. They tend to become a regional party.
Look, are they going to adjust? Are they going to get better? Of course, they are. Are they going to win some elections? Of course, they are. But I think that the Democrats are positioned to be the dominant national party for some time to come right now.
HILL: But, James, really quickly because we have only about 30 seconds for your answer.
CARVILLE: OK.
HILL: But the fact that the Republicans obviously get that, too, I mean, whether or not their listening tour works, they're clearly realizing they need a message, they need a leader.
CARVILLE: Sure.
HILL: You would hope they're going to come up with somebody. So who is it? When you look at who's available among the Republicans, who is the biggest threat?
CARVILLE: Well, I don't know. I don't know. The biggest threat that we have right now is people are more concerned about spending. They're concerned about rising deficits. Unfortunately, for the Republicans, they don't have any credibility on this.
When they acquire some credibility, they'll be able to inflict some political damage. I'm almost certain they're going to pick up seats in 2010. You can't win three congressional elections in a row. But right now, they have a lot of brand rebuilding to do.
Sure, they're going to do it and they're going to get better but they've got to deal with the underlying demographic trends which are just not very favorable to them.
MARTIN: All right. James, don't go away. That gumball (ph) has to waste. Stay with us because I want to get your thoughts on Elizabeth Edwards.
CARVILLE: OK. No problem.
MARTIN: We've been getting, folks, a lot of voice mail on her and her husband's affair. Not his affair, her staying with him. Listen to what Will in Mississippi had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL, MISSISSIPPI (via telephone): It is not a question of whether or not I feel sorry for her. I want to know why is she still with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: She writes about it in a book. We certainly want to know what you think on this whole issue. 1-877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662- 8550.
Drop me an e-mail, Roland@CNN.com. Check me out on Twitter and Facebook, and visit Ali because he needs to help with all those.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: The political world was rocked last fall when two-time Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards was busted by the "National Enquirer" for having an affair with a campaign worker. Imagine what would have happened if he had won the nomination or been picked as President Barack Obama's VP running mate.
In our "Political Daily Briefing" tonight, his wife is now speaking to Oprah Winfrey about the affair which she details in her new book.
Our own Jessica Yellin, of course, spent a lot of time on the campaign trail covering Edwards. She has the details about Elizabeth Edwards opening up and seemingly settling a few scores with the other woman and her husband.
YELLIN: Yes. Well, Roland, Elizabeth Edwards sat down with Oprah at the Edwards' palatial home in Chapel Hill, North Carolina for an interview that will air on Thursday. And that coincides with the release of her new book which is called "Resilience: Reflections on the Burdens and Gifts of Facing Life's Adversities."
So, she and Oprah talked very candidly about her husband's affair. Take a listen first to what Elizabeth Edwards told Oprah about the first time her husband allegedly met the woman he admitted to having an affair with, Rielle Hunter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, JOHN EDWARDS' WIFE: What John had said is this woman had spotted him in the hotel in which he was staying. He was meeting with someone in the restaurant bar area, and she had verified with someone who John worked with that it was John.
And then John had gone to dinner. Didn't speak to her then but he had gone to dinner at a nearby restaurant and then he had walked back to the hotel. And when he walked back, she was standing in front of the hotel and said to him, "you are so hot." I can't deliver it, so I don't know how to deliver such lines, but, you know, "you are so hot" are the words she said to him. And it started --
OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": I think she probably said it a little differently...
EDWARDS: You think so?
WINFREY: ... that you are so hot. Yes.
EDWARDS: You want to try? Yes, I'm not going there in any way.
WINFREY: You're not going there in any way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Yes. I guess once a woman tells you you're so hot, you have no choice, huh?
MARTIN: Right. OK, let's go to the room there.
All right, folks. Our panel comes --
YELLIN: We have some more sound bites.
MARTIN: OK, cool. All right.
YELLIN: We'll play a little bit more. First, John Edwards adamantly denies being the baby's father. And let's listen to what his wife had to say about that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": The other woman has a baby.
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, JOHN EDWARDS' WIFE: That's what I understand.
WINFREY: And there is great speculation that your husband, John Edwards, is the father of that baby.
EDWARDS: Right. That's what I understand.
I've seen a picture of the baby. I have no idea. It doesn't look like my children, but I don't have any idea.
WINFREY: You must have thought -- you must have thought, is it or is it not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: And in a particularly wrenching part of that same interview, Elizabeth Edwards also addresses how important the issue of being faithful is to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": You asked your husband for just one gift when you got married, what was that?
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, JOHN EDWARDS' WIFE: I wanted him to be faithful to me. It was enormously important to me. I didn't --
WINFREY: You said no rings, no flowers.
EDWARDS: Yes. And not you know, this is a necklace of my mother's, but I'm not much of a jewelry person. I actually jammed my finger so I can't even wear my wedding ring right now. But, you know, I don't care about those kinds of things but that's what was really important to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Notice how she casually mentions that she's not wearing her wedding ring, Roland.
MARTIN: Very interesting there. All right, folks, our panel comes back along with Democratic strategist and CNN political contributor James Carville.
Now, James, pretty interesting stuff here. And what do you make of this? I mean, she's talking about this. She's spilling the whole beans. I mean, what do you make of it?
CARVILLE: Well, I mean, I guess it's something that she felt like she wanted to do. I mean, you know, the woman has been through a lot and maybe she feels like this is some kind of catharsis for her. If that is, more power to her.
I mean, I have an enormous amount of respect for her. One thing I kind of don't understand on the question of is Senator Edwards the father of the child, I think that kind of thinking can be easily determined these days, can't it?
HILL: She came out and said when all this came to light, she said there will absolutely not be a paternity test either now or in the future.
MARTIN: That is the other woman, right?
HILL: Exactly. Yes.
BLOOM: Well, you know, I'll tell you something. I think she's setting a new standard for political wives. Remember, Silda Spitzer who stood next to Eliot Spitzer at that press conference as he publicly humiliated her? Remember Dina McGreevey who stood next to James McGreevey when he publicly humiliated her, admitting to an affair?
You don't see Elizabeth Edwards standing next to her husband when he gave the first interview and talked about it. You see her now alone with Oprah, telling her own side about what happened and is talking her husband as well as the other woman.
MARTIN: Lisa --
BLOOM: She stayed with him, but she's forging her own path.
MARTIN: She's sitting giving an interview right now by herself.
But, James, she could have said I am not going to campaign for you. This is going to come out, but she didn't do that. She allowed for his campaign to go forward. So I understand in terms of being the victim here, but it's not like she said hey, I'm not going to be on the campaign trail.
CARVILLE: Well, you know, again, I think each family, you know, has to go through something. She, of course, she got her diagnosis that her breast cancer had come back during the campaign. I can only imagine what kind of impact that has on someone's psychology.
I mean, it's really not for me to kind of judge Mrs. Edwards in something like this if this is something that she feels like she needs. I might add I can see where Governor Spitzer may have a political future somewhere. It's very, very difficult for me to see how Senator Edwards has much of a political future right now.
MARTIN: To the phone --
CARVILLE: Usually people can come back from anything, but it looks pretty bleak for him.
MARTIN: To the phone lines, Dona in Cooperstown, New York.
Dona?
DONA, NEW YORK (via telephone): I say cut the woman some slack. She has a terminal illness and this is her story, her legacy. And she could have been in denial before, you know, with the father of her kids
But, you know, he's a scuzzball. In his personal life, he's a scuzzball. So are a lot of other political leaders, unfortunately.
YELLIN: I don't know if she's a victim in all this. I mean, the truth is, is that personally I have enormous compassion for her. But on the campaign trail, Elizabeth Edwards was the single most outspoken advocate for her husband. She was the decisive strategist inside her campaign.
BLOOM: Well, maybe she really believed in him notwithstanding the affair. Maybe she believed he was the best one for the job.
YELLIN: She knew that there was this ticking time bomb, an affair that could come out that could derail his candidacy. What if he had become the nominee? What if he had derailed the Democratic Party by doing this? She has the knowledge.
MARTIN: Hey, James, if that happened, you wouldn't be writing that book.
Go ahead, James.
VELSHI: You made him speechless.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I thought you said Jane. I'm sorry.
Look, you know, you can't -- you don't know what happens. A lot of people have been elected president that had affairs before they were president.
I can't walk in Mrs. Edwards and Senator Edwards' shoes in the lead-up to this. But I do know that Mrs. Edwards had a traumatic event that happened in her life. I feel like she's doing this because she probably needs some kind of catharsis.
This thing has been much speculative. Obviously, it has been a very painful thing for Senator Edwards, for her. He's not the first politician to ever have an affair, have something like this happen to. I mean, it's easy to overanalyze it.
YELLIN: OK. James, you're being gracious. But during the campaign, Elizabeth Edwards went after Senator Clinton.
She called her. She suggested that she's acting like a man. She said that John Edwards is more sensitive to women's issues than Hillary Clinton is. There is no question that the Edwards campaign damaged Senator Clinton's campaign.
CARVILLE: Well, again, that's the nature of politics. OK? And I mean, he's running for president. Senator Clinton is running for president. Senator Clinton was the front-runner.
I don't -- I mean, I don't think anybody was as much for Senator Clinton as I was. But I mean, that kind of stuff is pretty much acceptable in primaries.
And you know, she was very tough in 2004. She was very, very aggressive for her husband in there. She was a very, very effective campaigner. John Edwards has gone nowhere near as far as he went in politics without Elizabeth Edwards at his side. I've heard too many stories about her and how effective she was.
BLOOM: And, Roland, John Edwards is the wrongdoer here. Why do we always pile on the woman? Why do we attack her?
MARTIN: I don't know. No, no. I'm not sitting -- no.
BLOOM: Why is she getting any criticism whatsoever?
MARTIN: I think she's probably getting some criticism because the reality is he ran for president. She knew he had the affair, this was going to come out. And the bottom line is, look, if you don't want to go forward, you don't run. James, hold tight one second. Folks, we got --
CARVILLE: You know, I just think there's a lot of people and a lot of marriages that have had a lot of trouble. I don't think that ought to exclude someone from running for president. I really don't.
And I think if she knew about it and they decided that this was something that they wanted to do and they want to go with it, and had the circumstances been a little bit different, you know, this kind of thing, as we all know is survivable in American politics. So, you know, if they're honest with each other up front, and I don't know what has happened in America since then, I know something has gone on in life.
MARTIN: All right.
CARVILLE: And I think she's a remarkable woman.
MARTIN: Obviously, you can tell a heated conversation. Back with more of this conversation, folks, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Hey, folks, welcome back. Erica, we've got some breaking news from California.
HILL: Yes, we want to get to these live pictures that you're looking at coming in to us from our affiliates, both KCAL and KCBS, of a wildfire.
It has forced the evacuation of some 1,200 homes. Happening right now in the hills north of Santa Barbara, about 150 to 200 acres burned so far. The good news, no reports of any injuries or property damages.
Crews are battling this both on the ground and in the air. We're going to continue to follow it for you throughout the night.
And can I make one comment about Elizabeth Edwards?
MARTIN: Go right ahead.
HILL: She interviewed both of them. I want our body language expert to come back and watch that tape.
MARTIN: OK. She's already producing for Thursday's show.
All right, folks, we want to thank everybody who e-mailed and wrote letters and tweets and Facebook, all that good stuff. Also, James Carville, from New Orleans, I want to thank you as well. Your book, of course, "40 more years: How the Democrats Will Rule the Next Generation."
CARVILLE: Thank you.
MARTIN: James, give some boot (ph) and a gumball, will you? CARVILLE: Oh, man, that jazz fest, we're eating good down here. Thank you.
MARTIN: All right, James.
CARVILLE: Thank you very much.
MARTIN: Folks, if you like the music you heard on tonight's show, go to CNN.com/campbell to find our NO BIAS, NO BULL playlist. That's all for tonight.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. What do we say?
ALL: Holler.
