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Campbell Brown
Drew Peterson Indicted for Murder in Death of Kathleen Savio
Aired May 07, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, HOST: First, folks, breaking news. Drew Peterson, a former Chicago police sergeant, was arrested this afternoon. He's been indicted for murder in the death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio in 2004. Peterson has been investigated over the disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy, but again, this charge is related to the death of his third wife. The couple had been in the final stages of a divorce at the time of her death. She was found dead in an empty bathtub and an autopsy ruled that she drowned there. Savio's body was exhumed in 2007 and her death was later reclassified as a homicide. Police will hold a news conference in about 90 minutes. Lisa Bloom has been following the Drew Peterson saga for quite some time and Lisa, this is obviously a shock likely to Peterson and his attorney because they were saying this is not going to happen.
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV: I talked to Drew Peterson's attorney just a couple of days ago, Joel Brodsky. He told me that he not expect that Drew Peterson would be arrested soon. He said he did not expect Drew Peterson would arrested ever. He's been a suspect in the disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy Peterson. Drew has not been arrested today for that incident, that disappearance. Instead, wife number three, Kathleen Savio, as you say, who was found dead, drowned to death in a dry bath tube. That was always suspicious to her family. When Stacy went missing, a couple of years later, her body as you say was exhumed.
And it turned out not only was she drowned she was beaten black to blue head to toe. So that was ruled a homicide. Drew Peterson has been a suspect in that case.
MARTIN: You talked to one of his former wives. What can you share with us about that conversation?
BLOOM: I spoke to the father of Chrissy Rains. Chrissy Rains is Drew Peterson's fifth fiancee-slash-girlfriend. There's a little bit of play as to exactly what her role is. She's been living with him, she moves out, she moves back in. I spoke to her father, Ernest Rains. He tells me Chrissy is on her way home to return and live with him. He's very pleased about that. The family is very pleased, he's very pleased about this arrest.
MARTIN: Of course Peterson also said in an interview he told the kids Stacy was not coming back, she was on a vacation. And later called it a slip of the tongue. And he's just been rambling left and right.
BLOOM: He certainly has. He's given a lot of interviews, including an interview to me. He has always maintained his innocence. I'm sure he will continue to maintain his innocence after this arrest. An interesting development on the Kathleen Savio matter just a couple weeks ago was that her family filed a wrongful death case against Drew Peterson. They were tired of waiting for what happened today. They filed a civil suit against him saying that he was, in fact, the murder of Kathleen Savio. He's denied those charges. His kids came out and supported him.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You said that you -- his attorneys were surprised by this arrest, but you've covered the case. Are you surprised by this arrest?
BLOOM: I'm not surprised at all. The grand jury has been meeting for over a year in connection with the deaths or disappearance of both of these women. And by the way, state's attorney has told us today here at CNN that the grand jury will continue to meet and investigate the disappearance of Stacy Peterson.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And of course his second wife, too, told the media at one point, he told me once he could kill me and make it look like an accident, which never set very well with a lot of people. What is it specifically that may have been found as evidence in that second autopsy that could lead now to this arrest in Kathleen Savio's murder?
BLOOM: That's a good question, Erica. That autopsy took place sometime ago. That couldn't be the reason, the precipitating factor now. We don't know exactly what the reason is this arrest has taken place. Now it may be just that the grand jury has just concluded its investigation into Kathleen Savio's murder after meeting for over a year and they have now determined there's probable cause to arrest him.
MARTIN: All right, Lisa. Also, folks, again, live news conference at 9:30 Eastern tonight. We're going to be following the story to its conclusion. Also tonight, breaking news on the manhunt for a killer in Connecticut. Police say he gunned down a woman in a book store near the campus of Wesleyan University which canceled classes today as the search continues. Police have warned the suspect may be targeting students and anyone who is Jewish. Our national correspondent Susan Candiotti is on top of the latest developments and joins us now from Middletown, Connecticut.
Susan?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Roland. The first news we have to tell you about tonight is there is a first degree murder warrant out for the suspect in this case. He's Stephen Morgan. And also there is no clear motive at this time as to why he killed another student at the school. He did not attend the school. Her name, 21- year-old Johanna Justin-Jinich. Again, no clear motive as to why he decided to shoot her in that bookstore. And tonight, the family of that suspect in Massachusetts issued a statement expressing their sadness and asking their son to give himself up. Roland?
MARTIN: So why would authorities tell the Jewish community to be on guard?
CANDIOTTI: It's because one of the pieces of evidence they picked up is a journal that he left behind, a journal that the suspect, Morgan, wrote in. And in it, he made threatening comments to students at Wesleyan and also to Jews. The victim in this case is also Jewish. And there is a large student Jewish population at that university. That's why they've asked people to take particular care, be careful when they go out about town, and also we talked to the head of a synagogue here. And he said they have canceled all their activities for the next day or so.
MARTIN: Susan, there are also reports the police questioned the suspect and let him go. What can you tell us about that?
CANDIOTTI: Reporter: amazing, but true, according to a law enforcement source, I am told that, in fact, Morgan was standing outside the book store after this happened. There were other witnesses that were inside the book store for a time after the shooting occurred. Eventually, those people that were inside the book store were brought outside. And it's of course common practice for police to take down the names and phone numbers and addresses of people they might want to contact later. In fact we spoke with someone who was among that crowd. He did not recognize the photograph that was later put out of the suspect. But police do confirm, at least a source does, that Morgan was out there.
MARTIN: Susan Candiotti. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Big news out of DC. President Barack Obama says he's ready to cut the budget. But even some of his own say it's barely a nick.
Also, this Catholic priest is watched by people all over the country but he may have crossed a line. They are only supposed to be married to the church. Tonight, we want to know, is it time to rethink that concept? Here's what one of our callers are saying.
CALLER: They're human, they need a human touch, definitely let the clergy marry, let them be human, let them have the special human touch that we all need, definitely.
MARTIN: This priest was caught on the beach with a woman. Our question for you tonight, should Catholic priests be allowed to marry? Get in on the answer by calling 1-877-NO BULL-0. That's 1-877-662- 8550 or e-mail me roland@cnn.com. And hit me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: On "The Front Burner" tonight, President Barack Obama rolls out his budget and the cuts he says will make a difference. Some Democrats and Republicans are saying no, they won't.
Jessica Yellin is here to break down the whole budget picture for us.
YELLIN: I like how you summed that up, Roland. It is big news. And a whopping huge number. $3.5 trillion. That's what all those zeros mean. And here's why it matters is because everything President Obama wants to do over the next four years is inside that number because if he wants a program he's got to pay for it so listen up, here's what we know, more than 50 percent of the budget is going to entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. That's so big in part because health care costs are rising so fast. Then the defense budget is the next big chunk. Actually a bug number, but it's seen the most cuts of any piece of that. The rest about 25 percent, that's from things like education, homeland security, even foreign aid.
So let's break it down and look some of the specifics. This tells us a little bit about what the president's proposals are. $250 billion. He set that a side as a possible new fund for future bank bailouts. Congress has already said they will not support this. But the president's putting it in anyway just in case.
OK, $635 billion. That's for a fund that will help pay for the planned health care reform the president wants to get done this year. It's over 10 years. That's a sign the president is making this his top priority this year.
And then here's something that's a little more tangible to everyone. $1 billion for food safety. That's because the FDA needs more inspectors who can go out and make sure our food is safe. Two hundred twenty two new food inspectors will be paid for with that $1 billion. And one other note we were all talking about last night, abstinence only education. Here's how you can see what the president's priorities are, he slashed all funding for abstinence only education. Instead he's paying for sex education that includes abstinence as one option.
OK, so how does this add up? The big picture? The White House is taking a lot of heat from critics who say they have not cut enough. That's what you were joking about, Roland? Look at that, cutting $17 billion. Sounds like a big number. See that tiny slice, that's all it comes to in the end. Just a teeny sliver.
One Republican said those cuts add up to no more than a teaspoon out of the bathtub. Now, there's a big debate over this, whether the cuts are enough. But the bottom line is this is not the last word. It has to be approved by Congress. And you know how that goes. They try to change everything. Roland.
MARTIN: All right, earlier tonight, I spoke with one of the president's top advisers, Valerie Jarrett. She had a very different view of that $17 billion of cuts and President Obama's 2010 budget. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIE JARRETT, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Roland, in the course of the campaign, the president did make the commitment to go line by line through the budget. I don't know to you but to me, $17 billion with a B, that's a pretty big amount.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN: Of course we want to bring in someone who's not bringing in the White House's version, Stephen Moore, senior economics writer for "The Wall Street Journal." He's in Washington tonight. So Stephen, I've got to ask you, also in that conversation with Valerie, she said, look, this is the first step of several that they are going to take. So expect more cuts down the line. You're not buying any of it, though.
STEPHEN MOORE, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": No, I mean the president said today everybody needs to pull in their tummy and tighten their belts. Everybody in America is doing that. But the federal government certainly isn't. Let's not forget, Roland, that we passed an $800 billion spending bill just a couple months ago, the biggest spending bill in America's history. We just approved $4 or $5 billion for Chrysler. The amount of money that Barack Obama is talking about saving in this budget is less than the amount of money we gave Citigroup just a few months ago. So there's just not real savings here. When you're talking about a budget, that over 10 years proposes $9 trillion of new deficits -- quite frankly, Roland, I don't think this administration is serious about fiscal responsibility.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about that, Stephen. Let's talk about the deficit. We've got the deficit obviously on a yearly basis is the shortfall between what the government brings in in taxes and what the government spends. That's just the short fall. In this case the $3.5 trillion budget has a $1.4 trillion shortfall. When you add that all up, here's what you get. We've been running deficits for many years in America. There was a short period in the late '90s where we actually had surpluses. And when you have a surplus you use that to pay off the national debt. When you have a deficit it adds up to the national debt. So the problem we've got is not just that we've got a shortfall, a projected shortfall, the issue is the debt, the national debt is reaching a level where it's almost inconceivable that we could pay that off anytime soon.
Jessica showed you that so much of the budget is entitlement spending, health care and Social Security commitments, which we have no plan to reduce at the moment. So Stephen, the bottom line is, this is not a "this administration" thing, this has become the way it goes for American governments.
MOORE: That's true, look, Barack Obama inherited a trillion dollar budget deficit and this year he made it $2 trillion. People say well George Bush left him a big deficit. That's right. But we're digging the hole much deeper. I want to raise one other point, Ali, that I think is really important here. And that is that when you look at what the president and Congress are doing right now as they propose this lean budget that's going to tighten the belt of government. At the same time they're doing this they're debating a health care plan that will add $1 trillion of new entitlement spending. And as you said, what's causing the budget crisis in the first place is the entitlement crisis. We're going to create a trillion dollar new entitlement. What sense does that make?
YELLIN: They say that will actually end up bringing down the cost of health care in the long run ... MOORE: Oh, come, come ...
YELLIN: Let's be honest. First, they have to do a lot spending right now, they say, because of the recession. Second, would Congress support bigger cuts? Isn't it likely even these cuts will go by the wayside.
MOORE: You're probably right about that.
YELLIN: So is this a Democratic problem or a Washington problem?
MOORE: Let me say this, I actually worked for Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich back in the '90s. We actually did make a lot of cuts back then. We had a fiscally conservative president in Bill Clinton and we had a fiscally conservative Congress in the Republicans and that led to $200 billion of surpluses. We're spending money at such a rapid pace. It's not just -- it's bailouts, it's ...
MARTIN: Stephen ...
MOORE: $150 billion for the IMF. We just can't afford to do all of this ...
MARTIN: Stephen, Valerie Jarrett addressed that. Here's what she said.
MOORE: Right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARRETT: We are going to invest right now because we have to. We're not doing this because we choose to spend taxpayer dollars, we're doing this because we're in a dire situation where we have to jump start the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Stephen, you got about 20 seconds. She says we have to spend the money. So, what's the problem?
MOORE: Government spending doesn't jump start the economy it causes -- It's never worked before in the history of this country. That government spending has made the economy grow faster.
MARTIN: All right. That was good, Stephen. That was about 12 seconds. Way to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stiffed us all ...
MARTIN: Stephen Moore, thanks very much, take care.
Plus we've got breaking news from Afghanistan and Pakistan so please don't go anywhere. You don't want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: I love Stevie Wonder.
MARTIN: Yeah, Little Stevie Wonder.
HILL: Like the Obamas apparently -- I don't have him in for my own personal concerts.
MARTIN: There you go. Higher ground there, had that request on Facebook, we appreciate it. All right, let's talk about love for a minute. What if you had strong feelings for someone but you couldn't act on those feelings because of your job, Lisa and Ali?
HILL: Oh!
MARTIN: This is one Father Alberto Cutie. Lisa calls him Father Cutie -- very popular on Spanish language TV and radio. But he's in trouble because someone took pictures of him on the beach, no shirt, and not much between him and a lady friend. That's against the rules which brings the question maybe it's time to change the rules.
Ronkriel on Twitter says this, "Celibacy is for the devout. Just because some fall short does not mean celibacy is outdated. It means we're getting weaker."
I'm sure the Catholic Church likes that, Ron. Should Catholic priests be allowed to marry? Tell us, folks, by giving us a shout. What do you think about that, Panel? It's a pretty interesting ...
HILL: It's a hot topic, I'll tell you that much. But ...
MARTIN: The photos are hot too.
BLOOM: I think they're doing pretty well when you're scandal of the day for your religion is a guy touching a woman on a beach and apparently two consenting adults. That's really all that it is. He's a human being. His last name is C-U-T-I-E. Don't blame me for calling him Cutie. I'm just reading it's like it's spelled.
HILL: The spokeswoman for the Archdiocese of Miami said, quote, "A man who is a priest is able to focus totally on the church." Translation, no focusing on the ladies.
MARTIN: I see that picture, I see what he was focusing on. 1- 877-NO-BULL-0. 1-877-662-8550. Ali wants no part of the conversation. E-mail, Twitter, Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: CNN has learned that a preliminary investigation shows U.S. air strikes were to blame for the deaths of Afghan civilians earlier this week. Which killed an unknown number of men, women and children. A U.S. official says insurgents may have used the innocent civilians as human shields.
Also tonight, there's word the first additional wave of U.S. Marines sent to Afghanistan by President Barack Obama arrived this week. For now they're in the dozens but more will come. And that news comes as the leaders of Afghanistan continues their joint visit to Washington with also their Pakistan counterpart even as things are heating up fast in Pakistan. Erica Hill starts us off with a look at their trip to Capitol Hill.
HILL: That's right, Roland. Both presidents today meeting with members of the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee. Just one day after promising President Obama they will work with the U.S. to defeat al Qaeda and the Taliban. Senator John Kerry who is the chairman of that committee said the senators were, quote, encouraged by both the presidents' candid answers.
Now after the meeting Pakistani President Zardari told reporters his country's nuclear arsenal is in safe hands despite the growing threat from the Taliban. One thing he did not address, what is actually happening today in Pakistan with the Taliban. Pakistan's prime minister formally renouncing the peace agreement with Talibani militants in the Swat valley. It's a region we've talked about here on the show several times. Several weeks ago we started talking about it because Taliban forces effectively, through the region here, effectively broke that deal which had given them control of the region, let them institute Sharia Islamic law there. But they refused to disarm. They moved further down to the Buner region down here which is just within 60 miles of the capital city of Islamabad. Now, fighting has intensified there. Troops were sent in to the Swat Valley. More are on their way. And Roland, it is really intensifying. The fight is intensifying. It's something that everyone is watching really closely.
MARTIN: All right, Erica. Right now, we want to get a real sense of what's happening in Pakistan. CNN's Reza Sayah joins us from Islamabad. Reza, with the Pakistan military and the Taliban battling over these regions, who's really in control?
REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Roland, when it comes to the Swat region, it's the Taliban in control. And they've been in control for more than a year. The Pakistani military has not been able to beat them back in the past few weeks. They started to increase their reach, soldier forth to neighboring districts. And that's why on Thursday night the Pakistani prime minister essentially came out and said enough is enough, no more Mr. Nice Guy with the Taliban, no more talking to them. He scrapped the peace deal and announced a military offensive in the Swat region. Whether this offensive will work remains to be seen. They've tried it before for more than a year now. The Taliban has increased its stranglehold. There's been a lot of pressure from Washington to Pakistan to do something. And on Thursday night, they made this announcement that they will. Roland?
HILL: Reza, it's actually Erica here, the effect on the people who actually live in this region could be potentially devastating. I know since August the UN has registered 500,000 Pakistanis who were forced to flee Northwest Pakistan, how high can we expect that number to go in terms of fleeing citizens and humanitarian need?
SAYAH: It's increasing. And it's a horrible situation that's unfolding. With this military offensive, we are seeing tens of thousands. Some humanitarian groups are saying hundreds of thousands, saying we don't want to take a chance. They're taking anything, packing their bags, walking, getting on trucks, getting out of there. Some of the roads are being blocked by the Taliban so they're unable to move. We've heard reports of many people being injured. Doctors and nurses in the Swat region, surrounding areas, are too scared to go to the hospitals to treat the victims. So the victims who need medical attention are left with nowhere to turn.
The prime minister, on Thursday night, did pledge about $12 million in aid for these displaced citizens. But Pakistan has never really been quick to get the money to where it's needed. So a dire situation, humanitarian groups say a disaster is near.
MARTIN: Reza, the Pakistanis were negotiating with the Taliban just a couple of weeks ago. So this decision, this new strategy, is it really the Pakistani government or do they frankly bent to the will of Washington who said, "You are going to have to fix this problem"? Who really is driving this new strategy?
SAYAH: Well, make no mistake. The pressure was coming in the past few weeks from senior government officials in Washington. President Obama, Richard Holbrooke, the special envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan. But Pakistan will never say if this was because of the pressure from Washington. In fact, on Thursday night, the prime minister said this is Pakistan's decision. He specifically said they did not relent to pressure from Washington. He described this as an existential threat, these militants to Pakistan.
But you can be sure they heard the pressure from Washington and its ally in the U.S., an ally that's funding billions of dollars in military aid and non-military aid to Pakistan.
MARTIN: Reza Sayah, we certainly appreciate it, thank you so very much.
Folks, we're going to give you the latest on the Drew Peterson arrest in just a minute. Of course that was our top story.
Also tonight, a wildfire burns near the heart of a Southern California city. Check out the billowing smoke in this iReport. More dramatic pictures, folks, just ahead.
Plus, a priest caught in a compromising spot with a woman that's caused an uproar. Well, tonight we ask, should Catholic priests be allowed to marry? The number to call, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877- 662-8550. You can also e-mail me and hit me on Twitter and Facebook. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: That meets the approval of Lisa.
BLOOM: I have no idea what it is.
MARTIN: OK. All right, we'll tell you later.
HILL: Roland doesn't either. MARTIN: For months, folks, we've been watching Wall Street for that glimmer of hope as the president keeps talking about, any sign that our economy is on the road to recovery.
Well, tonight, the results of the government's so-called stress test of America's biggest banks are out. So what does it mean?
We have no clue but Ali Velshi does. He's here to break it down for us.
Ali, so the banks passed the test, failed? What's going on?
VELSHI: The government doesn't want you using that language. They don't think --
MARTIN: Oh, sorry, sorry.
VELSHI: This is just -- it was just a test to see how these banks, some of the nation's biggest banks, 19 of them, each with over $100 billion in assets, would fair if this economy got worse. We're talking about glimmers of hope, the economy getting better.
What happens if it got worse? What happens if unemployment, which is 8.5 percent right now, it will go up tomorrow morning when the unemployment rate is released? What if it goes up to above 10 percent? What if home prices, which are down 20 percent, go down another 20 percent?
Well, it ran the test and it says here's what would happen. These banks here amongst others need to raise some money to get them through this whole thing. There are 10 banks out of the 19 that need to raise money. Bank of America, about $34 billion. Wells Fargo, almost $14 billion, GMAC, $11.5 billion, Citigroup, $5.5 billion.
Now, this is -- you know how we tell you that you need to have some money on hand in case you lose your job? They tell you keep six to nine months worth of expenses? That's what this is. That's telling these banks that if they're in trouble, they're going to need more money.
Now, of the 19 banks, nine of them passed although we're not using that word. Nine of them don't need to actually raise more money. Here are those ones.
Goldman Sachs, American Express, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of New York Mellon. Remember, these are all banks that got money from the government.
These are all banks that took TARP money. Many of them have said they want to give the money back. Those that obviously passed the stress test will have less trouble doing it. The other ones will have one month to come up with a plan as to how they're going to raise that money, and they'll have six months to actually come up with the money.
MARTIN: All right. Ali, thanks so much. Folks, let's get back to our breaking news from Illinois tonight -- the arrest of former police sergeant, Drew Peterson. His fourth wife remains missing, but tonight he's charged with killing his third wife.
Our own Joe Johns is in Chicago asking to wait (ph) a police news conference -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, Roland, what we know is that Drew Peterson has been, now, indicted, we're told, on murder charges. Murder charges relating to his third wife. That, of course, is Kathleen Savio. She disappeared around 2004. Actually was found in a bathtub and had died.
His fourth wife, of course, is the one who disappeared, is still missing, and authorities are trying to determine whether they think there's evidence sufficient to charge this man in that case as well.
Now, Kathleen Savio's brother just talked a little while ago to WLS-TV in a telephone interview and he told the station just a little bit about how he found out about word of Drew Peterson being indicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK SAVIO, BROTHER OF MURDER VICTIM (via telephone): Gave me a call and said you know what, Nick, they arrested Drew, and we didn't know what for. The state police have been telling us that the date was coming, and we kept hearing this for about eight months.
I'm almost in tears here. It's been so hard for our family. It's just -- it's just -- this is happening. Hopefully, we'll get the justice that we've always been waiting for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now Peterson is in custody, we're told, by state police. We're expecting a news conference in just about an hour. We'll keep you updated.
Back to you, Roland.
MARTIN: All right, Joe, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.
Folks, busy, busy day. And now time to go to Erica Hill with our briefing.
HILL: Another story we've been following for the last couple of days now. Raging wildfire remains completely out of control in California tonight.
Flames there have already destroyed at least 20 homes, some 1,300 acres near Santa Barbara. Almost 14,000 people have been evacuated as firefighters braced for more strong evening winds.
Meantime, back on the East Coast, a dramatic explosion at a Maryland strip mall. A camera on a fire truck actually caught the blast on tape. You can see it right here.
Firefighters have responded to a gas leak at the shopping center in Forestville. We know eight people were hurt, some of them with serious burns. Understandable how that happened.
Another black eye for Major League Baseball today. L.A. Dodgers slugger Manny Ramirez suspended for 50 games, 5-0, after testing positive for a banned substance. Ramirez says his doctor prescribed the non-steroid drug for a personal health issue, Roland.
MARTIN: Yes, we're buying that one, Manny.
VELSHI: Oh, Roland.
MARTIN: All right, folks -- come on, now. Here comes the bride, there goes the economy. All these different things. What's a happy couple to do when times are tough? Well, we'll take a look just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, Bob, our floor manager, loves this segment. Time for the "Money and Main Street." Our continuing look at how the sagging economy hits home for all of us.
He says he's too broke. And case in point, if there is ever a time when people tend to splurge is when they're getting married. That meant a catering (ph) business. I appreciate that. Or at least that's when they used to splurge.
Randi Kaye talked to one happy couple tying the knot in trying times.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Angie Mraz (ph) and her fiance Matt Alberdi (ph) plan to get married in June, smack in the middle of a recession. Talk about no frills nuptials.
ANGIE MRAZ (ph), PLANNING TO GET MARRIED: No open bar. We're not doing a three, four-tiered cake and a cake cut -- you know, that whole idea. We're not going to do extravagant flower arrangements. The bridesmaids' dresses were J. Crew dresses that were on sale.
MATT ALBERDI (ph), PLANNING TO GET MARRIED: Everybody is cutting back and just a trickle down effect.
KAYE: Their trickle down started with Angie's engagement ring. It's from Tiffany's, but it's a simple band, no diamond.
ALBERDI (ph): We just decided that it didn't make a ton of sense. Not right now.
KAYE: Angie bought her dress at Bridal Garden, a discount shop.
MRAZ (ph): I was trying to shoot for something less than 1,000, which was already ambitious I think. And I ended up spending 350.
KAYE: In this economy, Bridal Garden's business is booming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, BRIDAL GARDEN: Our sales have been up about 40 percent.
KAYE: Not the case for wedding photographer Brian Delia. Angie and her fiance found him online at Craigslist. He has just four weddings booked this year, a fraction of years past.
BRIAN DELIA, WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER: I ended up hiring my wife to help me with, you know, with these photography jobs. And then I don't have to worry about paying so much out of pocket for an assistant.
KAYE: Angie and Matt made their own "Save the Date" cards online to save money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Number of guests that you have it's going to happen.
KAYE: And they hired a wedding planner which instead of costing them more actually saved them cash.
(on camera): Before they say "I do" more and more couples are saying "I don't want to spend that much."
A recent study by David's Bridal Shop showed spending on wedding dresses is down 31 percent. Wedding cakes, down 33 percent. Limo rental, 24 percent. And food for the reception, down 53 percent.
(voice-over): Some couples have trimmed guest lists, picked a deejay over a band. And forget about a sit-down dinner, buffets or just hors d'oeuvres are in.
ALBERDI (ph): Minus the flowers, minus the big cake, minus all the traditional stuff, it's going to be about us and our friends and family.
KAYE (on camera): When you look back on your big day, how do you think you'll feel?
MRAZ (ph): I'm going to feel really good that I married the right person.
KAYE: And did it on a budget?
MRAZ (ph): And did it on a budget.
ALBERDI (ph): And did it on a budget.
KAYE (voice-over): And they paid for everything in cash, no credit cards. That's what you call getting started on the right foot.
Randi Kaye, CNN, East Rutherford, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MARTIN: That's right. Keep it going, those weddings. My brother wants that to happen.
Folks, if you go right now to CNN.com/moneyandmainstreet, you can take an interactive test that's basically your own version of the bank stress test. Ali loves it.
VELSHI: It's a good test.
HILL: It's also in your book.
VELSHI: It's excellent. My book has a risk tolerance test.
MARTIN: We'll call the game.
VELSHI: I'll tell you what, that you can actually make it through the day.
YELLIN: Just like the stress test on sale, right?
MARTIN: All right, folks, that interactive is front and center on that page. That's CNN.com/moneyandmainstreet.
Also a reminder, Ali Velshi and Anderson Cooper will be here May 14th, a week from today, with an hour-long special, "Money & Main Street." It starts at 8: p.m. Eastern next Thursday and, of course, there will be many plugs of Ali's book in there.
(LAUGHTER)
We're going to talk again tonight, folks, about the wave of murders of school-aged kids in Chicago. They've already been far too many vigils like this one, far too many. We will talk to a controversial priest who's working to stop the violence. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: That's almost certainly a plaza in Chicago, joy and pain when you talk about sunshine and rain, the kind of thing that's happening there because of these murders taking place with the children in that city. Take a look at this map that we have on the wall here, folks.
Chicago has a school population about two and a half times bigger than Philadelphia's, but its violent death rate among students is nine times as great. In L.A., they have nearly 300,000 more kids in school than Chicago but the murder rate among school age kids in L.A., a lot lower.
There is an epidemic of young people dying as a result of violence in Chicago, and folks there are trying to figure out how in the heck to stop it.
We're joined right now by someone who's been on the front lines in the gang wars there, literally walking through hails of bullets and preaching at far too many funerals of fallen children. He is Father Michael Pfleger. He's a pastor of the faith community of Saint Sabina from the South Side of Chicago.
Father Pfleger, we certainly appreciate you being with us. I talked earlier, Father, with Valerie Jarrett, you know her well, senior adviser to President Obama.
REV. MICHAEL PFLEGER, PASTOR, SAINT SABINA CHURCH: Yes.
MARTIN: And she said, look, the government can do all it can, but the reality is the only way this changes is the people who live in these communities step up and say enough is enough. What say you?
PFLEGER: Well, I think it's it. I think it's a comprehensive response that's got to be done. I think the government does have to do something with the weapons and easy access to guns. I think we need to call a consciousness across this country just like we do with the swine flu.
We have the whole country focused on that and saying we've got to do something about it. I think these communities, I think these parents, I think its churches and schools, we have to say that we cannot longer buy these guns and we can no longer see kids dying in our streets. The blood is in our streets, and we're getting immune to it in Chicago and a lot of the other major cities. So we got to say no more.
VELSHI: Father, it's Ali Velshi here. What good does saying no more do exactly? What is going to happen? Because it doesn't occur to me that the kids who are committing these crimes are waiting for you to say no more. What has to happen?
PFLEGER: One thing -- one other thing happens is we got to deal with calling communities, and I think the conscious has to come from, like I say, Washington down to the city streets. Communities got to say, we're not going to tolerate shooting and the killing of our children. Communities got to say, if you shoot a child in this community, you are an enemy to this community.
You can't hide in our houses. You can't sleep in our places. We're not going to cover you. We're not going to hide you. But also, parents have to check houses for guns.
Where are the guns? We're hiding them in houses and we're hiding criminals in houses and we got to stop that. But we also got to create a kind of stir and consciousness of say no more in this country where everybody's involved.
No matter where you go, the school, the church, the synagogue, the mosque, the street, the block, the government, just like we did with swine flu, say, we are going to create an aggressive response to this and everybody has to be involved. Everybody's part of this puzzle.
BLOOM: Father Pfleger, there is an upside down American flag hanging outside your church. You've taken some criticism from veterans groups for that. What's the point that you're trying to make there?
PFLEGER: Well, I think what we're trying to say is that the upside down flag -- the government says is that doing that says that there is a crisis, there is an emergency, to either life or property. Thirty-six children being killed in Chicago by gun violence this school year -- there was a child shot about four blocks from my house tonight at 4:00, wounded in the back, hopefully -- hopefully going to survive.
We want to sound the alarm to say there is an emergency crisis that we're not addressing. We've got to be able to sound this alarm to say everybody get involved. Is it a radical move with the flag upside down? Yes, but it's also a radical problem.
YELLIN: May I ask respectfully, there are people who accuse you, though, of sensationalizing this issue and actually distracting from the problem of dying kids by hanging this flag upside down? Do you fear that this has become a distraction?
PFLEGER: Well, I don't think -- it amazes me that there are more people outraged with the flag upside down than they are about children dying. But for the last number of years, we go out and march and we do the rallies, and we go out after every child gets shot and we go to the sites where the children are. We offer reward money to get the shooters. We are trying everything.
If the flag says this is an American problem that we've got to deal, we can't point to Mexico. We can't point to Al Qaeda. This is America's problem. We have got to face it.
So if this is raising the question and raising the issues and causing us to say, let's do something, we can't just shake our heads and put up little teddy bears and candles and balloons and then the next one happens the next day.
Whatever it takes, something has got to raise the attention and sound the alarm and say help, we've got to stop this. It's an epidemic.
MARTIN: Father Pfleger, you also know that the people who are sitting there protecting these criminals, they're the ones who we all should be going after as well.
We certainly appreciate it. Sir, thank you very much.
PFLEGER: Thank you.
MARTIN: Folks, CNN will continue covering this epidemic of murderous violence against young people in the Windy City on tonight's "AC 360." Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be in a Chicago emergency room talking to doctors about their struggle to save the kids brought to them off the main streets. Please watch "AC 360" tonight at 10:00 Eastern.
Coming up at the top of the hour, as always, "LARRY KING LIVE."
And, Larry, I know you're closely monitoring the arrest of Drew Peterson.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": We are. He's been arrested -- finally arrested. Apparently what most people think. We'll have the latest on this breaking story.
And Kate Gosselin will be with us. That's the famous mother of eight. We'll address her husband's alleged infidelity.
And Maria Shriver and Whoopi Goldberg will round out the hour. How's that for some (INAUDIBLE)? All ahead on "LARRY KING LIVE."
MARTIN: Sounds like you got a great group there, Larry. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much.
KING: Thanks, Roland.
MARTIN: We're going to take up a subject that's been controversial literally for centuries. This Catholic priest with a large TV following was seen being, well, unpriestly, with a young woman on a beach. And tonight, we're asking, should Roman Catholic priests be allowed to marry? Here's a voice mail we got from Lisa in Louisiana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA, FROM LOUISIANA (via telephone): My answer to the question should the clergy be able to marry, I say yes, because in the bible, God created us to be fruitful and to multiply. And I think that applies to all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Celibacy for the Catholic clergy, yes or no? Let me know what you think on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
YELLIN: It's a Maxwell?
MARTIN: Yes, it is.
Maxwell, they got a new album coming out in July.
All right, folks, I want you to take a look at this for us. It's been four years. He needs to hurry up.
Check this photo-op, folks. A man and a woman apparently have a nice time on a Florida beach.
VELSHI: Which photo? The one --
BLOOM: There you go.
MARTIN: There's just, of course, one -- with just one slight problem, though, he's a Catholic priest. Photos of Father Alberto Cutie and an unidentified woman have caused a major stir in Miami. Many members of his parish demanded that he stay in his job but his archdiocese has put him on leave.
A Florida newspaper reports that just last week, Cutie told the TV station he thinks priests should be able to marry? So we've been asking you that question tonight?
Joining us now is the Reverend Mitch Pacwa, a host on EWTN television where Father Cutie used to have a show of his own.
All right, Father, here's --
REV. MITCH PACWA, JESUIT PRIEST: Good evening.
MARTIN: You've got lots of folks in this church who say, look, we want him to stay. They held a rally in front of their church because they want him back. So, should the archdiocese follow the wishes of the folks there and say put him back in the church?
PACWA: As a matter of fact, I'm sure that the archdiocese would love to have him back in the church. However, with this kind of a public action, there also needs to be time of reflection. And that's what the diocese has asked him to do is take some time to go off on his own, reflect on this and the situation and his commitment to the church, his priesthood and celibacy and then they'll negotiate after that. And that makes good sense.
HILL: Father, there's been a lot of talk over the last few years about whether or not the church should consider allowing priests to make celibacy optional and whether or not they should marry. In fact, a Gallup poll is out.
Sixty percent of U.S. Catholics support marriage. A number of priests have sent letters supporting the option as well. Is it time for the Catholic Church to consider marriage for priests?
PACWA: No. The reason is, at the very least, the tradition that we have of celibacy in the Catholic Church, especially in the western part, is a good 1,800 years' old. Because now we have a series of crises over a wide variety of sexual issues. This is one of the worst times to reconsider this. For instance, in the United States and Western Europe, marriage has been in a crisis itself.
MARTIN: OK, Father --
PACWA: High rates of infidelity, high divorce rates and so this would not be a good time to consider changing celibacy.
MARTIN: Father, I'm not really mad because he was a woman. I'm just going to be perfectly honest with you. And, look --
BLOOM: With a woman.
MARTIN: With a woman -- sorry, with a woman. OK. But here's my whole deal (ph) --
HILL: If he is a woman, that's a separate issue.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: I'm saying this, Father, look, I was in (INAUDIBLE), the largest black Catholic organization in the world. And I remember we were asked by our priest one time if you want to be a priest? Very few hands went up.
He said if you could marry. He said if you can marry, a bunch of hands went up. And so, it's not biblical that you can't get married. So I don't see an issue here.
VELSHI: The point is to collect more priests. It doesn't matter. If you didn't want to be priest if you could marry --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes, but if you can marry -- go.
VELSHI: But then if you can marry, you don't want to be a priest, be a mechanic.
MARTIN: Yes, but you can be a southern Baptist preacher.
BLOOM: OK.
MARTIN: You can be a --
BLOOM: Well, you can. OK, but I have a question for Father Pacwa. It's about the vow of celibacy. I mean, if what Father Cutie did is limited to what we see in these tabloid pictures, maybe a kiss, maybe touching a woman on the beach, has he violated his vow?
PACWA: You know, there's more to the story that I do not know and I have not sought to pursue. So I don't know.
It certainly is causing scandal because he's not married to this woman and he has a vow of celibacy that includes much more than just not having a full conjugal relationships, but, rather, it's also a whole attitude, where the priest is to be giving himself over for the church, and not to the exclusive relationship with a single individual person.
VELSHI: So back to Lisa's question, would he have been doing something else if he was giving himself to the church but he happened to be touching a woman?
PACWA: I didn't quite understand the first part of your question.
BLOOM: Well, another way of putting that is, could he be defrocked for kissing a woman and touching her on the beach if he didn't have sexual relationship with her?
PACWA: No. As a matter of fact, even if he has sexual relations, that is not grounds for being defrocked. And that's not what is at stake for Father Cutie. He is not -- they're not suggesting that he be defrocked. YELLIN: Right. And we should say he has not admitted to doing anything. He apologized.
MARTIN: He apologized --
Let's go to Chris in Atlanta Beach, Florida -- Chris.
CHRIS, FLORIDA (via telephone): Hey, Roland, how are you doing?
I'm a practicing Roman Catholic, a Gen-X Catholic. I love the fact that the church is countercultural and I don't think that priests should be allowed to be married because they're called to serve their community. They are doctors of souls, much like many people are doctors of medicine or doctors of laws.
MARTIN: But, Chris, there are other people who are ministers who are men and women of God, but they can get married.
CHRIS: Absolutely right, but they don't administer the seven sacraments like the Catholic Church do. A Catholic priest is called to be 100 percent on call on duty for his church and for his flock at all times.
MARTIN: I got you. I understand. But you know what, I can call my pastor anytime I want to as well. But I understand your point.
Quickly, Alex in New Jersey, we have them, Kelly?
OK, quickly, Alex in New Jersey.
ALEX, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): I think priests should be married because they will be more psychologically and emotionally mature and would be real father figures, as celibate priests have no experience in being a father. As the poll said, if you can't be a father in your own family, you can't be a father to a conversation, out of the New Testament.
MARTIN: All right. Father, real quick, you got a response?
PACWA: Sure. As a matter of fact, we can be very fatherly and this is what we're called to do.
MARTIN: OK.
PACWA: And if somebody is not psychologically balanced as a celibate, they probably won't be any more psychologically balanced when they're married.
MARTIN: All right, Father, hold tight. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, final comments here, Lisa Bloom.
BLOOM: Well, I respect that priests take vows of celibacy. But I think we should just make one exception for Father Cutie. MARTIN: Well, Father Cutie. All right, Jessica.
YELLIN: He's called Father "what a shame" and he's also known for counseling on relationships. So, maybe this is not the right time to focus on celibacy.
MARTIN: All right, Father, you've got the final comment about eight seconds.
PACWA: I would say that I absolutely love the priesthood even more now after 33 years.
MARTIN: All right.
PACWA: Celibacy is a component that helps to make me available to love the church and our people all the more.
MARTIN: All right, Father --
PACWA: And I love it.
MARTIN: Father, appreciate it. We got to go.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
ALL: Holler.
