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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Defense Focuses on Man Who Found Caylee`s Body
Aired May 07, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news in the desperate search for 2-year- old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light- colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Tot mom may sue the jail for violating her privacy. Yes, that`s right., tot mom may sue the government, the defense working overtime, putting key witnesses on the hot seat under oath about the day tot mom watching live TV while Caylee`s remains discovered, tot mom allegedly hyperventilating, demanding medication for herself. It`s all on surveillance video. Tot mom`s lawyers` fighting tooth and nail to keep that very jailhouse video secret, and they are working around the clock to do it.
Also on the hot seat, multiple witnesses relating to the meter reader who found Caylee`s tiny skeleton. Will tot mom point the finger at him as the killer at her own murder one trial? Tonight, we obtain more raw audiotapes of a sergeant and a female lieutenant with tot mom the day investigators literally on their hands and knees trying to recover Caylee`s tiny bones. And just before she`s booked on murder one, tot mom opens up, telling her story at home to a male child service worker. We have the story she told.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tabloids got a hold of somebody that said they were in jail with Casey Anthony on April 13th, the day they learn that prosecutors would seek the death penalty. The person said that Casey reacted, basically, flipping out. She said that she was pissed.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Mom!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baez has a motion before the court that will be heard at the end of May, asking for a protective order on not only the video of Casey Anthony in that medical area by that mounted camera, but also in regard to Lieutenant Tammy Uncer and any tapes of what she had to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hands started to sweat. She started rubbing them profusely. She was in waist chains and handcuffs, and she kept saying the waist chains are getting tighter and tighter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She reacted that way because she knew it was her child. The evidence points to her and so it is her now more concerned about herself.
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a chance to speak with the medical staff there at that time, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She could have if she had requested it, but she did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also, multiple 911 calls, multiple police raids, now "octomom" is sued, accused of exploiting her own children. One of her 14 children turns up with a black eye, his body covered in teeth marks. Tonight, are they in danger?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us see the babies, Nadya?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure they`re (INAUDIBLE) because there`s no grounds for anything. If anyone wants to do that, no. (INAUDIBLE) Free to try, but again, I`ll reiterate, people want a piece of this situation (INAUDIBLE) and they`re not going to get it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lawsuit also says that you`ve entered into a company called Eyewear (ph) to film a reality show with the children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven`t signed anything. (INAUDIBLE) Many, many, many, many people in this society are trying to destruct me (INAUDIBLE) my babies. And I`ll continue to live in my baby bubble with all my kids and whoever wants a piece of me (INAUDIBLE) keep on coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, a 17-year-old high school beauty, a model student, soccer player, vanishes into thin air, spring break, Myrtle Beach. After grainy surveillance video emerges picturing her, the trail goes cold. Tonight, her mother says police cleared the wrong guys. Where is 17-year- old Brittanee Drexel?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know where she is. I don`t know if she`s alive. I don`t know if somebody maybe picked her up and she`s somewhere where she`s not familiar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brittanee disappears during a spring break trip to Myrtle Beach, a trip her mother did not want her to go on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She could be laying dead somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the investigation is active and ongoing and continue to interview Brittanee`s friends and acquaintances, doing everything they can to find out what happened to the teen beauty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d probably hold her, hug her, kiss her. You know, I just want her to know that, you know, we`re not mad at her. We just want her to come home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last time I heard from her, I was actually - - she`s a very avid soccer player. She`s played soccer for about 10 years. And I was behind (ph) her soccer cleats, and when I spoke with Brittanee, I asked her what she was doing. And she says, Oh, mom, I`m at the beach. And it was an 80-degree day in Rochester, so of course, you know, I thought that maybe she was at the beach in Rochester with one of her girlfriends that she had said that was -- she was staying overnight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tot mom suing the jail for violating her privacy? Yes, that`s right, tot mom may sue the government. On the hot seat, multiple witnesses now relating to the meter reader who found little Caylee`s skeleton. Will tot mom point the finger at him as the killer in her own murder one trial?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She walked into the medical clinic and immediately looked at the TV, which was on channel 9 broadcasting breaking news. And she collapsed into the chair and started to what appeared to be hyperventilating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baez questioned jail lieutenant Tammy Uncer under oath and sheriff`s detective Philip Graves, who investigated Casey`s reaction on December 11th for the murder case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s, like, No, no, I won`t hurt myself (INAUDIBLE) She did ask for a sedative, which we did relay to the doctor on duty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s been a lot of reports that you guys told the jail officers to put her in front of the camera. Is that true?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d love to, but I can`t comment on the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had signs of hyperventilation, with heavy, deep breathing that was taking place. She then bent over and made complaints that she was feeling sick to her stomach and was going to throw up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baez seems to have backed off his accusations that Casey`s privacy rights were violated as he tries to keep the videotape out of the public eye and possibly out of the trial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did break down and cry in there. We could see that she was crying. He asked for a tissue. She definitely was holding her head in her hands, crying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to get to the bottom of everything that occurred this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. Ellie, on the hot seat by the defense -- they`ve cranked it up a notch, they`re working `round the clock, putting people under oath -- are many people relating to the meter reader, the innocent meter reader who stumbled on Caylee`s tiny skeleton, Roy Kronk. What are they doing?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, the defense has just filed a notice that they`ve got a slew of people they plan to depose next week. Four of them are people that either are deputies who investigated tips that Roy Kronk called in, or they are co-workers of Kronk`s who were either there or have some connection to some of his calls.
GRACE: Now, Ellie, what can you tell me about the co-workers that were there when he made the calls about Caylee`s skeleton?
JOSTAD: Well, one of them, Tim Armstrong, we don`t know a lot about him yet. Nothing in discovery about him. But the other guy, David Dean, was there on August 11th, when Kronk first thought he saw something. He says that Kronk was down relieving himself in the woods. He came back and he said, Hey, guys, I saw a bag out there. Then he says they all kind of thought he was joking. A couple minutes later, Kronk said, No, I think I saw a skull.
But then shortly after that is when they encountered -- because David Dean went to go check it out himself, even though he didn`t really think Kronk saw anything. He started walking toward the woods, and that`s when they saw this huge rattlesnake, they all turned back, and that ended their investigation that day.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Susan Moss, child advocate and family attorney out of New York. Also with us, famed defense attorney Richard Herman out of New York and high-profile lawyer out of Seattle Anne Bremner.
Well, Sue Moss, here we go. Liz, let`s put up the other candidates as killer that the tot mom apparently has tried to point the finger at -- former fiance Jesse Grund, Ricardo Morales, Tony Rusciano, Anthony Lazzaro -- I think that`s the one she was seeing -- let me put it gently -- seeing at the time Caylee goes missing. And now all these witnesses on the hot seat, under oath about the meter reader. That`s where they`re going, Sue Moss. They`re going to try to blame the meter reader.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Roy Kronk is the next Zanny nanny. I mean, this is crazy! I`m just lucky she`s not pointing the finger at Richard Herman. But who knows, that just might be next. She`s got nothing, and all she`s doing is trying to point the finger and throw the mud to see if it will stick.
GRACE: Richard Herman, it`s not an entirely new tactic to use the SOD, "some other dude" did it, defense. But here, you know, she`s pointed the finger at so many different people, now the innocent utility meter reader who actually cracked the case.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, again, with all due respect, Sue Moss is at a loss, Nancy. You`re absolutely right. There`s been no pointing fingers because the trial hasn`t begun yet. But this Kronk had so many occasions to observe this body. And Nancy, you`ll agree with me, if that body was moved when she was incarcerated, this Kronk -- there`s other people have problems here. That`s great for the defense.
GRACE: No, I don`t agree with you. Bremner?
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll defend Richard in any event. I don`t think he did it. But there are...
(LAUGHTER)
BREMNER: There are...
HERMAN: Thank you.
GRACE: Just make your point.
BREMNER: Yes, but you know, "some other dude did it" defense, shotgun defense, you can use it. But the fact is, where -- what in the hey was going on with people not finding that body when it was pointed out...
GRACE: OK, you know what?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, Anne...
BREMNER: Yes?
GRACE: ... I asked you about Kronk, and now you`ve gone off on a tangent. And I know why because what they`re doing cannot be defended.
Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, that will be under oath in this case. You have been talking about Kronk and how he knew the body was there for a long time. I guess they were listening to you, Padilla. Are you happy now?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No. No. Listen to me. I listened to his ex-wife, Crystal (ph), who told me that he told his mother and father back before Thanksgiving that he knew where the body was. And when I asked him, How do you know where the body is and why haven`t you gone after it, he told them (ph), I`m going after it when the water goes down, and my girlfriend told me where the body was.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I love her and I support her and that I understand. And every day that goes by, I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child.
My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half-truths, but she`s not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I, as a mom, I know in my gut, there`s -- your feeling as parent, you know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, that presence. I know that she`s alive.
CINDY ANTHONY: What she told me and what I found out was two different things. I don`t know Casey`s reasons for telling me, except that what she`s told me. She told me she was protecting Caylee and she`s protecting the family. And until this day, I still believe that she`s protecting Caylee and the family.
CASEY ANTHONY: This is seriously the first time that I`ve been angry, that I`ve been this frustrated to where I -- I can`t even think straight at this moment. Throughout this entire thing -- I was pissed off that day at the police station. I was mad when all of that happened, but I tried to look at things objectively. And this entire time, I haven`t sat in my room for the entire month and been mad. Not once. Not one time. But right now, this is the most agitated and frustrated that I`ve been, even when I`ve sat with Jose and I watched that episode of NANCY GRACE and the stuff that was being said about Mom and being said about me and him and everybody else and stuff that I`ve heard -- it`s frustrated me, but I`ve let it go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who will be under oath on this case. We now see a new line of defense based on all of the depositions, the sworn testimony the defense is amassing. They are working overtime, trying to locate co-workers, anybody related to the utility meter reader who found Caylee`s body. Respond.
PADILLA: Well, I don`t think they`re trying to blame the finding -- in other words, that he had anything to do with the homicide. I think what they want to do is to be able to suppress as much evidence as possible. And if the evidence of the finding of the body comes back that somebody in the jail overheard a conversation between an attorney and a client -- now, you`re a prosecutor, Nancy. I`ve never been a prosecutor. What does that mean? A certain amount of evidence possibly could be suppressed. I think they`re just attacking it from that angle. I don`t think they`re trying to blame it on Kronk. Kronk is not a target in this thing...
GRACE: OK...
PADILLA: ... as far as the defense.
GRACE: Fair. Sue Moss...
PADILLA: What they`re trying to do is suppress evidence.
GRACE: OK. Sue Moss, I think it`s much more than trying to get it suppressed, the discovery of the body. Let`s see the lawyers, all of them, Sue Moss, Richard Herman, Anne Bremner. Number one, with the -- can I see the lawyers? There they are. With the discovery of a dead body, that`s not going to be suppressed because of the rule of inevitable discovery. In other words, even if police got information they shouldn`t have gotten under the Constitution, like a statement without Miranda rights, a body will eventually be discovered. That is the thinking of the U.S. Supreme Court. Whether you two, Bremner and Herman, like it or not, that`s the law. So the discovery of a body is not going to be suppressed.
So let`s take it from there. First to you, Sue Moss. What`s the defense trying to do? Give it to me in a nutshell.
MOSS: They`re trying to make this meter reader look like a child beater and perhaps even a murderer. It`s not going to happen. They first tried it with Zanny nanny. They`re trying it with Roy Kronk. It`s not going work.
GRACE: Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, you know, I can`t -- I don`t have any Dr. Seuss here right now, Nancy. I`m not going to go on a tangent. But the fact of the matter is, where was the body the whole time and why wasn`t it found? Reasonable doubt. You`re right. You don`t have suppression, you have doubt, and that`s a whole different issue.
GRACE: OK, Anne?
BREMNER: Yes?
GRACE: Do you have even a shred -- a shred of evidence to suggest that the body had been anywhere but in tot mom`s car trunk and there behind that elementary school 15 houses from the Anthonys` home? Just anything.
BREMNER: The bottom line -- the bottom line is, is when you go to look for something, you don`t find it, and it ends up being there later. All you got to say...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa...
BREMNER: Nancy, I...
GRACE: Yes or no? Do you have any evidence...
(CROSSTALK)
BREMNER: I`ll answer that question. No, OK?
GRACE: OK.
BREMNER: But that doesn`t mean that I can`t say in front of a jury in good faith as a defense attorney that, Why didn`t people find that body, and could someone else be involved? And you can put doubt into the minds of jurors, and that`s what they have to do...
GRACE: OK.
BREMNER: ... in death penalty case.
GRACE: Richard Herman, you`ve won a lot of cases for the defense. Give me your best shot on Kronk.
HERMAN: I`m going to say Kronk showed where the body was clearly in August. How could they not find that body? When he walked from the roadway in to relieve himself, it was right there, and nobody found that body in August. That body was moved. I`m going to use Kronk to prove that body was moved when she was in prison. There`s other people involved. Maybe Kronk has some involvement, maybe not. Anne is right, reasonable doubt.
GRACE: OK. I hear where you`re going, Richard Herman, there in your Manhattan Park Avenue law practice.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: There was a little thing called Hurricane Fay -- I`m sure you`re not familiar with that, walking up and down Fifth Avenue -- that intervened in this whole process.
Quick break, everybody. We`ll all be right back. But to tonight`s "Case Alert." The first photos surface of a blue-eyed little 3-year-old found alive after wandering alone in the Mark Twain National Forest wearing nothing but a T-shirt and a pull-up diapy. Joshua Childers wanders out of his home. Here he is. After a search by air, land and water, he`s found at the bottom of a creek three miles from home. His mom flashed these cell phone photos so you can see he`s alive and well. When he was found, he asked for milk and hot dogs and was worried that he had lost his shoe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Hey, sweetheart.
CASEY ANTHONY: Hey.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Hey, listen, I want you to know you are the boss through this whole thing, OK?
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, no, I`m not anymore, Dad. I haven`t been since I got here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks of serious -- like she wanted to cry, but she was preventing herself from doing that, with reddening of the eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In fact -- to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story -- Baez, the defense attorney, has already questioned some of these people, but he wants round two. He wants another piece of the pie. Why?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. He said that he is doing his own investigation, and after that time, if Casey Anthony feels that she has sufficient enough material to go forward and sue the jail, then she would, in fact, do so.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, we also learn that tot mom, after refusing to cooperate with police, opens up there, sitting in her own home, to a male child services employee. What happened? What did she tell him? What`s the story?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, this guy`s name is William Procknow (ph). The defense is going to depose him next week. He went over to the Anthony house on one of the times that Casey was out on bail. This is back in August. He comes in. He says they greeted him smiling warmly. Casey and Cindy sat him down, and he got an earful. Casey told him she was anxious to tell her story to somebody besides police because they were trying to break her, make her confess to something. Then she went on to tell him the same story she gave police, that there really was a Zanny, that she really worked at Universal, that she really did get a call from Caylee right after she was reported missing.
GRACE: To you, Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst and director of the cold case squad, Pine Lake PD -- Sheryl, before you started on cold cases, you were in the trenches...
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Right.
GRACE: ... fighting crime every day. Insisting on the same story with a guy who really didn`t ask -- it`s all going come into evidence. She wasn`t in custody. She wasn`t being questioned by police. The Constitution doesn`t protect her from gabbing.
MCCOLLUM: Right.
GRACE: It`s kind of like rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, the way she keeps sticking with that story. They know she doesn`t work at Universal. They know all of it`s a lie. Why do defendants stick to the same story even as they`re going down?
MCCOLLUM: They got nothing else. Everything that she`s lied about has been uncovered. And that`s another reason, in an active, ongoing investigation, they`re going to videotape her, Nancy.
GRACE: You mean at the jail?
MCCOLLUM: At the jail, certainly. And she knew that when they gave her the inmate handbook. She knew they were going to videotape her. But if they hadn`t done that and they said she hyperventilated, Jose Baez would say that wasn`t true.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lawsuit (INAUDIBLE) says that you`ve entered into a company called Eye Work to film a reality show with the children?
NADYA SULEMAN: As far as I`m concerned, I haven`t entered into anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she says -- the lawsuit says it was for videos and photos of the babies.
SULEMAN: I haven`t planned anything. I haven`t planned anything at all. And people are opportunists and they just want to be in the spotlight. How ironic is that. That people who don`t want that are thrust into it overnight and those who are just foaming at the mouth for it don`t get it, and they have to go through extraordinary lengths to get some form of attention.
My head is blank right now. I feel as though many, many, many, many people in this society are trying to distract me from taking care of my babies and I`m going to continue to live in my baby bubble with all my kids and whoever wants a piece of me or the babies, keep on coming. All I can say.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hello, this is the Whittier Police department, someone dialed 11. Do you have an emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh no, I think that was my baby brother.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Are you the adult in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Are you the adult in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you have a mom or a dad who`s home?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I`m in charge right now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m 6 and my babysitter`s watching me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Is your babysitter there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Can I speak to your baby sitter?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s busy making some food right now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, because we have police on the way to your house so I need to speak to an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh wait. My mom and dad went to, like, a party and my babysitter`s making food.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, well, the officers are going to be at your house. I need to speak to your babysitter. Can you tell her I`m on the phone?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Straight out to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly." Tom, what happened?
TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR IN TOUCH WEEKLY, COVERING STORY: She`s filed papers with the -- with the Orange County court asking that a guardian be appointed on behalf of these children so that their financial interests are looked after down the line.
You showed a clip here in reference to this reality TV show that she`s in talks on which might be a documentary, we don`t know. There`s a book deal in the works. We know that she has financial stakes with the stock photo agencies. There`s a lot of money here, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, apparently, many people are concerned the children, all 14 of them, particularly the octuplets, are being exploited. This after multiple 911 calls, police coming to the home. One child turning up with a black eye and covered in teeth marks.
Joining me right now, special guest from L.A., Gloria Allred. She is a child advocate and she is insisting a legal guardian be appointed for the octuplets. Why, Gloria?
(ON THE PHONE)
GLORIA ALLRED, CHILD ADVOCATE, WANTS A LEGAL GUARDIAN APPOINTED TO OCTUPLETS: Yes, hi, Nancy. Well, our petition asked the court to protect the financial interests and the opportunities of Nadya`s octuplets by appointing a guardian over their estate because we want to be sure that their interests in any contract that Nadya enters into which would display their images and photos or videos or on the Internet.
That their earnings will be protected, that they will get, in other words, their fair share because, of course, many of the contracts that she`s entering into require that the -- that the babies be part of it.
And so under California law and child labor laws, they are entitled to their earnings and we want it placed under the supervision of a guardian who will separate their earnings from their mothers and put it in a blocked account and make sure that it`s there for them when they reach 18.
GRACE: You know, Gloria Allred, what, if anything, do you get out of this?
ALLRED: Well, zero, actually, Nancy. Because we`re not -- I`m not asking to be appointed the guardian myself. I am asking that the court appoint a guardian on behalf of my client, Paul Peterson, who happens to be president of the a group called A Minor Consideration, which is -- has been an organization which for many years has been actively working to advance the rights of child performers, and I am representing him.
We are asking that a professional fiduciary, licensed in the state of California, and we provided a name to the court, Linda Rogers, who`s known and highly respected in Orange County, where the infants reside, that we`re asking that she be appointed or if the court wishes another licensed guardian that would be fine with us.
GRACE: Joining me right now, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins, Dr. Marty Makary. Dr. Marty, I know how difficult it is to raise two -- raising the twins at the same age. I don`t know how it`s being done -- with octuplets much less the other six children.
From what you know, after the 911 calls, the police raids on the home, DFACS, Department of Family and Children Services showing up, their investigation is still open. She has not been cleared. Do you believe as a physician that they are in danger?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, certainly this is a high-risk period for the kids. You know, the social situation has made the public outraged at this situation, but you know, the medical profession is outraged because of the health of the children.
You know, these children were at risk for pre-term labor, respiratory problems and a whole bunch of other problems and now they`re at risk for developmental problems because, let`s face it, it`s hard to care for that many children even if you have an entire team in your family caring for them.
GRACE: Well, speaking of a team, Gloria Allred, you had a team, Angels in Waiting, professional nannies and nurses volunteering to come into the home. You got kicked out. Why?
ALLRED: Well, exactly. I think only Nadya can tell us the real reason why. I mean, our -- unfortunately, our nurse has to report what was going on three times to Child Protective Services when they were there because they are mandated reporters and they believe that the children were endangered.
In addition, by the way, Nancy, in addition to filing this petition, we have also sent a three-page letter to the California Industrial Relations Commission and asking for an investigation into the number of hours that she has allowed her infants to be filmed and the particular periods of time in which they were filmed especially that first night when they came home which we contend are in violation of the law which strictly regulates how much.
GRACE: Hey, Gloria.
ALLRED: . babies and especially premature infant can be filmed if at all.
GRACE: Gloria, when the Angels in Waiting say three times they had to call DFACS because of dangerous conditions, in a nutshell, what were the dangerous conditions?
ALLRED: Well, first was the first night that they came home, Nancy, where they were swarmed by paparazzi and -- hundreds of them -- and then the conditions in the home where they were -- you know, I mean, really one of our nurses had to kind of jump in in the garage and try to rescue the baby out of the car. There were so many paparazzi there.
In addition, one of the -- our nurse had to try to intervene and stop a baby from choking, he was regurgitating on his own vomit after he was being fed while he was being filmed and she was told to get out of the shot.
I mean I do think that -- you know, protecting a baby is much more important than, you know, getting a good.
GRACE: OK.
ALLRED: . shot of them for television.
GRACE: I hear you, Gloria Allred.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Sue Moss, Richard Herman, Anne Bremner.
Go ahead, Anne Bremner. Tell me they`re invading her right to privacy? I mean what`s your defense on this?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, my defense is just let`s go back to Quint Land, you know, remember the quintuplets up in Canada?
GRACE: No.
BREMNER: They -- well, this was a huge multiple birth as anomalous as this one where they were made wards of the country. Millions were made by the country. The family had to give up all rights. They were miserable throughout their lives.
Now what -- are we basically the puritans like punishing her for her thoughts in the future, she might be involved with television? She isn`t right now. There -- she is a parent. To be go after as a Denise Richards?
GRACE: OK. Put.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Bremner, how do you think we`re getting this video of her? She`s on our television. We`re seeing her.
BREMNER: You know what, though, Nancy? There`s paparazzi.
GRACE: You don`t even make any sense, Anne. There she is on TV.
BREMNER: Yes, but it does make sense. Here she is, there`s paparazzi following her around.
GRACE: OK.
BREMNER: And there`s no indication she`s doing anything wrong right now and how the heck can they be working.
GRACE: OK. OK.
BREMNER: . if there are agents. And I could go on and on.
GRACE: Herman?
BREMNER: Even though I love Gloria.
GRACE: Yes. I know. I know you can.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Richard Herman, weigh in.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, Gloria is all wrong again. She`s bringing the petition speculating that this octomom is not going to take care of her children. She is the natural legal guardian of these children. Let`s give her a break. OK? Let`s see what happens here.
GRACE: Sue Moss, got anything to add to that?
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: No, no. In the `70s eight is enough. What is this? Inflation? The reality is if those kids are on a reality show and they are part of that show, they need a guardian to protect their rights to make sure -- to make sure that all the money isn`t squandered by octomom.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think emotional neglect is a traumatic form of child abuse. Child abuse is not just hitting or sexually abusing a child. It`s not attending to a child. How can you attend to 14 babies when you kicked the -- the other care takers out of the house?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Where was he the last time you saw him?
SULEMAN: An hour ago.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I know, but where was he? Ma`am, where was he?
SULEMAN: I don`t know. Outside?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: He was outside.
SULEMAN: Outside. Oh, my god. I`m going to die. Help me, God help me. Oh, God help me. God help me. This isn`t happening. This isn`t happening. God help me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, are your neighbors helping you look for him?
SULEMAN: Yes. They don`t see him anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Myrtle Beach Police are desperate to find missing 17-year-old, Brittanee Marie Drexel.
DAWN DREXEL, MOTHER OF MISSING 17-YR-OLD BRITTANEE DREXEL: Something is very, very wrong. And it`s not like my daughter to not call even if it was a friend. We were not arguing. She would have called me. She would have called her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Brittanee was walking on the beach toward her hotel after visiting a friend at another hotel a half a mile away.
DREXEL: Right now something is wrong. Something is wrong. I have a gut feeling that Brittanee is not safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although Brittanee left for the popular vacation spot without her mother`s permission, her mother said she and her daughter were not arguing about it and it`s unlike Brittanee to not call her.
DREXEL: It`s horrible because all I can think about is that she could be -- she could be laying dead somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are very worried about Brittanee`s safety with reports surfacing the teen suffers from depression.
DREXEL: My goal is to find out what really happened and also to find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Ernst Lamothe with the "Democrat and Chronicle" joining us from Rochester. Ernest, what`s the latest? I understand that her mother, Brittanee`s mother says police have gone way too fast in clearing certain parties involved.
(ON THE PHONE)
ERNST LAMOTHE, REPORTER, DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE": Well, Nancy, yes. Dawn was very frustrated that the main person of interest which was Peter, police are still investigating everybody. They interviewed everyone who went down to South Carolina with Brittanee, but they`re saying that because Peter was neither a suspect or simply somebody who they pinpointed as any kind of wrongdoing, they didn`t need to clear him one way or the other.
GRACE: Out to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer on the story. Marlaina, explain who is peter, who I`d like to point out is not a suspect or person of interest.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: That`s right. He`s not. He is a friend that she knows from her hometown of Rochester. She`s known him for a while. There`s no confirmation that there was any kind of romantic interest. He was just another spring breaker down there that she went to go visit the night she went missing.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Not so fast, Schiavo, because it`s my understanding that was the last person that we know of, that we can confirm that saw her alive and his story has fluctuated, has changed.
SCHIAVO: His story did fluctuate a little bit. They wouldn`t give the details of what he said. He was the last person, they believe, saw her the night she went missing along with the other spring breakers that were in the hotel with him, but according to him, she left the hotel and he hadn`t seen her that night after she went missing at all.
GRACE: So it`s not like all of the other spring breakers, Marlaina. She went to the hotel to visit him. He was the last person -- one of the last people to see her alive and his story has changed.
Now do you care to revise what you said that he`s just like all the other spring breakers, nothing special about him?
SCHIAVO: What I meant by that is that he was one of the other spring breakers on that same trip.
GRACE: OK. Let`s be specific, and again, this guy, this Peter that was there, the one that left at about 2:00 a.m., cleared out and drove 17, 18 hours to get back home after police started questioning him and they found out Brittanee was missing.
Ernst Lamothe, he is not a suspect, he is not a person of interest, do we know how he changed his story? Something isn`t fitting together because Brittanee`s mother is saying, police, you jumped the gun on clearing him and others. Ernst?
LAMOTHE: Well, police are being vague exactly on how he changed the subject, but as you mentioned, Nancy, one of the reasons why he was one of the persons pinpointed is not only was he possibly one of the last people to see Brittanee but they did talk via cell phone activity late on Saturday night.
And of course, the fact that he went up at 2:00 in the morning, back to Rochester, a long drive, he also left $100 deposit. He never got that back from the Blue Water Resort Hotel so because of those inaccuracies and Peter slightly shifting his story, that`s one of the reasons why, you know, police are still looking into it. But like I said, once again, he`s not a suspect.
GRACE: To Anne Bremner and Richard Herman. Police have questioned him repeatedly, in fact, he`s hired a lawyer claiming the police questioning has become repetitive. What does that say to you, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, it says to me that he`s got some concerns and the fact -- whether, you know, inconsistencies or fluctuations or changes, it`s time for him, as I always say, the closed mouth gathers no foot. And maybe that`s good advice here.
GRACE: Richard?
HERMAN: Yes, 18 hours is a long ride to make after that night. He`s got a lawyer now, they cannot ask him any more questions. He`s not off the hook by any means.
GRACE: Sue Moss?
MOSS: Seems very suspicious unless Joran Van Der Sloot was in the neighborhood.
GRACE: Out to Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst and director of the Cold Case Squad. Weigh in, Sheryl.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: The biggest thing here, Nancy. There`s no crime scene. We`re going to have zero forensic evidence, therefore -- but absolutely, Peter is somebody I would personally want to talk to again and again.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest. This is Brittanee`s long time boyfriend of many years, John Greco. John, thank you for being with us. What do you make of police clearing these guys?
(ON THE PHONE)
JOHN GRECO, BRITTANEE DREXEL`S BOYFRIEND: Well, the evidence that we`ve gathered so far being down in South Carolina does not show any foul play. Now there is suspicion with how he reacted to the situation. However, all the evidence that we`ve gathered just leaves him in the clear.
GRACE: Tell me this, John, do you know how he changed his story, what facts did he change?
GRECO: No. I`m not -- I don`t have the specifics on what he changed, but it was something minor.
GRACE: What leads you to believe that Brittanee is still alive?
GRECO: What was that?
GRACE: What leads you to believe that Brittanee, your girlfriend of many years, is still alive?
GRECO: I believe that she`s still alive because not only is she the most headstrong person they know -- that I`ve ever met and that I know, and if anybody is to survive a situation like this it would be Brittanee. And.
GRACE: How well did she know the girl she was traveling with, John? How well did she know them?
GRECO: They were, at best acquaintances. They were not -- I would not consider them friends or enemies. They were just more of acquaintances.
GRACE: And tell me, police are working on this round the clock. What are they telling you guys?
GRECO: Well, they`re really not telling us much. I mean, we have some details for the investigation, but most of them are being worked on right now as we speak and I`m watching the investigation unfold in front of us right now.
GRACE: Now the young man that saw her last says he left the deposit at the hotel because they would not come and inspect his hotel room to get the deposit back at that hour, it was around 2:00 a.m. That is what he is saying.
Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." She has no history of being a runaway, Bethany.
MARSHALL: No, she doesn`t. And even though she was depressed in the past, the fact that she went to Myrtle Beach is a good sign. It means the depression was lifting.
I think it`d be very interesting to know Peter`s demeanor while he`s being questioned. Is he arrogant? Is he deprecating towards the victim while he`s changing his story? Kind of acting like Joran Van Der Sloot?
Also there`s very specific research into the types of men who commit rape/abduction/homicide, specifically of the age group between 14 and 17 years of age. Often a 30 something, single, underemployed male living in an apartment near the crime scene or a sociopath doubling -- having a double life as a married man with children. So I`d be looking at these types of possible perpetrators as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREXEL: All I can think about is that she could be -- someone could have taken her, she could be laying somewhere. It`s just -- she`s my first born, so I mean, it`s tearing me up inside. I`m very, very, very upset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREXEL: I`d probably hold her, hug her, kiss her, you know, I just want her to know that we`re not mad at her, we just want her to come home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer on the story. Again, this young man who saw her last, who knew her from Rochester not a suspect, not a person of interest.
Marlaina, I understand they set up a search site at a boat landing near where the very last cell phone ping from her phone originated.
SCHIAVO: That`s right. They are south of Myrtle Beach in an area at the Georgetown area which is about 35 miles way. They said that her last cell phone ping was from there. They have questioned people at a local high school. They`re not saying who she spoke to on the phone. They actually just think that it pinged a tower because it was right before her cell phone may have died.
GRACE: Now, I don`t understand something, Marlaina. You`re saying her last cell phone ping originated 35 miles away from where she was staying?
SCHIAVO: That`s right. There is an area called Georgetown. It is -- the area that they`re searching is a river area, the South Santee River, specifically, where they`re searching and that`s where her cell phone hit.
GRACE: OK. Sheryl McCollum, that`s not good.
MCCOLLUM: No, it`s not good. Nancy, her cell phone made it there. She may or may not have made it there. And again, she hasn`t changed clothes, she hasn`t contacted her boyfriend. She hasn`t contacted the other friends, she hasn`t contacted her family. It`s been well over 72 hours, it`s of great concern.
GRACE: Tip line, 843-918-1382. 843-918-1382. Please help find Brittanee.
Let`s stop and remember, Army Specialist Massey Pollini, 21, Rockland, Massachusetts, killed, Iraq. A military policeman married only one month before deployment. Loyal, loved helping others, making people laugh, building wooden models, fireworks.
He loved paint ball, favorite TV show, "Family Guy." Dreamed of being an EMT or firefighter. Leaves behind parents Carolyn and Fred, three sisters, two brothers.
Matthew Pollini, American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
