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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Whoopi Goldberg Interview; Drew Peterson Case Update; Fareed Zakaria Interview
Aired May 8, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Drew Peterson -- accused spouse killer and former cop -- is in court facing first degree murder charges in the 2004 death of his third wife.
The fate of his fourth wife, missing since 2007, is still a mystery.
We'll hear from the families of his alleged victims.
And then, Whoopi Goldberg on the Obamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST: He is not joking about his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: On Elizabeth Edwards opening up about her husband's infidelity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: I'm sorry she has to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And on our "Ghost" co-star Patrick Swayze's battle with cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: Stories about his demise are way, way, way, way, way too early.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That and more, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Joining us to kick things off, from Chicago, Erica Slife, "Chicago Tribune's" lead reporter on the Drew Peterson story.
Erica, I know he appeared before a judge earlier today, less than 24 hours after his arrest. There were no cameras. But Peterson joked with reporters on the way in.
Watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON: Hey, pretty spiffy. Pretty spiffy outfit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drew!
PETERSON: Look at this bling. Look at this bling.
PETERSON: Three squares a day and a spiffy outfit. How can I beat that?
And look at this bling, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't take this serious yet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right. You were there, Erica.
What was it like?
ERIKA SLIFE, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE," COVERED PETERSON STORY: Well, actually, I wasn't there. A colleague of mine was there. But I was told that Peterson continued his joking behavior inside the courtroom. He was asked at one point by someone in the -- in the audience if he'd rather come sit with them and he said that he would.
But once the judge entered the courtroom, he became very serious and seemed pretty knowledgeable with what was going to happen to him.
KING: Today, it wasn't an arraignment.
What was it?
SLIFE: Well, the arraignment has been postponed until May 18th. Peterson's attorney, Joel Brodsky, was actually in New York this weekend. I think he made the circuit on the TV morning shows this morning. So the arraignment was actually postponed until May 18th.
KING: Is the bail still at $20 million?
SLIFE: It is still at $20 million. So that means he would have to post $2 million in order to be released from jail. No one thinks that's going to happen. He will be in jail for the next 10 days. He's going to be separated from the other inmates. He'll have his own cell. But he'll get the same three meals a day as everyone else. KING: Did he have anything to say to the judge?
SLIFE: He just answered questions, from what I'm told.
KING: Hey, Erika, thanks for getting us up to speed.
And speaking of Joel Brodsky, he joins us now on the phone.
He wasn't in -- you were not in court because you had -- why weren't you in court, Joel?
JOEL BRODSKY, DREW PETERSON'S ATTORNEY: Well, we -- I spoke with the (INAUDIBLE) -- with Mr. Glasgow and John Connor, who is the other attorney on the case. And we agreed to a continuance of this -- of the arraignment until May 18th. And we're going to obviously bring a motion to reduce bond on that date.
Our idea is that we wanted to do things right and not do it quickly. And -- and Drew -- I spoke with Drew on the phone and he's in full agreement with that strategy, to do it correctly and just not quickly.
And that's why we -- we agreed to this continuance.
KING: Are you going to advise him not to joke around?
BRODSKY: Yes, I could, but it's not going to help. That's just Drew. I mean that's his -- that's his personality. He -- when he's in a serious situation, he -- he wise cracks and jokes. That's -- that's just who he is. (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: What are you up against, Joel?
What's the basic, biggest problem you face here?
BRODSKY: Oh, probably the negative, you know, kind -- the negative opinion that most people have of Mr. Peterson. It's really not the evidence. At best, the state has a weak circumstantial case -- at best, with questionable forensics and relying on hearsay -- on a law that's probably unconstitutional.
So it's not the legal problems that really -- or the factual problems of the case that concern me. It's just simply the negative connotation that people seem to have about Drew.
KING: All right. The case is adjourned until May 18th.
Can't you get a bail hearing sooner?
BRODSKY: We can, I mean if we pushed it. But our decision is that we want to make sure we're fully prepared to put on a full hearing, to show that Drew is not a flight risk, that he is committed to facing the charges against him, that he has significant ties to the community. He owns property, he has children, he has family all here in Northern Illinois. And that a reasonable bond should be set in this case, just like it would be for any other person in a similar situation.
And the average bond situation like this would be somewhere between $500,000 and $1 million. And that's what we'd be asking for.
KING: What is his mental attitude?
BRODSKY: You know, I spoke to him today. You know, he's doing fine. He's because -- he's upbeat. He's, you know, he's -- he's prepared for whatever -- you know, for the time he's going to have to spend in jail until he can get a bond hearing. So he seemed -- he seemed perfectly -- perfectly fine.
KING: Are you going to fight this hearsay exception?
BRODSKY: Oh, tooth and nail. It's -- not only is it probably unconstitutional, but it's also a bad law. It allows unreliable evidence -- rumor, innuendo, you know, bathroom (INAUDIBLE) backyard gossip into a courtroom as evidence. And it's just -- it's bad law and it's unconstitutional, to boot.
KING: Thanks for taking time out from your dinner, Joel.
We always like talking to you.
BRODSKY: My pleasure, Larry.
KING: Joel Brodsky, defense attorney for Drew Peterson.
What's it like to see the suspect in your sister's murder laugh on the way into court?
Kathleen Savio's brother and sister, next.
KING: We now welcome, from Chicago, Sue Doman, Kathleen Savio's sister.
Here in Los Angeles, Nick Savio, Kathleen Savio's brother -- Drew Peterson's, of course, brother-in-law -- former brother-in-law.
In Chicago, Charlie and Melissa Doman. That's Kathleen Savio's nephew and niece.
Sue Doman is their aunt.
And in Chicago is Martin Glink. He is the attorney for the Savio/Doman family.
Kathleen, what do you make of this arrest now?
I mean Sue, I'm sorry.
SUE DOMAN, KATHLEEN SAVIO'S SISTER: I'm sorry, Larry. I couldn't hear you.
You hear me now?
Sue, what do you make of Drew Peterson being arrested?
S. DOMAN: Very relieved. It's also very sad for -- for me because it's -- I had worked very close with the authorities for a year-and-a-half. Each week we were working on different things. And it finally just came to a head. And it's just very emotional -- very emotional.
KING: I can imagine.
Nick, how do you feel about it?
NICK SAVIO, KATHLEEN SAVIO'S BROTHER: I think we're all very happy, as well, collectively, as a family.
KING: Were you close to Drew Peterson?
KING: Did you like or dislike him or have no opinion?
SAVIO: No opinion.
KING: Did your sister talk to you about him?
KING: Charlie and Melissa, what do you make of the arrest, Charles?
CHARLIE DOMAN, KATHLEEN SAVIO'S NEPHEW: There's a feeling of joy knowing that my aunt's finally being heard. It's a shame that it took her to be murdered by this monster, but she's finally being heard.
KING: How well, Melissa, do, you know, Drew?
MELISSA DOMAN, KATHLEEN SAVIO'S NIECE: I knew Drew fairly well. I used to be over at my Aunt Kitty's and Drew's house quite a bit. I used to baby-sit Tommy.
KING: Well, did she ever tell you she was having trouble with her husband?
M. DOMAN: She never sat down and told me, but I heard things that she would tell my mom. And when she showed up to my baby shower for my oldest son with a black eye, I -- I knew what happened. I just didn't press the issue.
KING: Martin, what's -- the purpose of an attorney for the Savio/Doman family is what? MARTIN GLINK, SAVIO-DOMAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Larry, the purpose is to prosecute the wrongful death case and the conversion of assets and property that came from Kitty's estate that should have properly gone to her children -- and some of which even probably to Mr. Peterson's kids, with Stacy.
KING: How far down the line is that...
GLINK: So we want to make sure that -- I'm sorry. Go ahead.
KING: I'm sorry.
How far down the line is that -- is that case?
GLINK: The case has been filed and we're in the process of having Mr. Peterson and Mr. Carroll served -- his uncle, who was the executor. So we're actually kind of taking a back seat to the state police and the state's attorney's case -- the criminal charges, at the moment.
And we're going to try to stay out of the way and let them do their case and let them investigate and put on their case, because they're entitled to make sure we stay out of their way.
KING: Sue, do you expect to see justice happen?
S. DOMAN: Yes, I do. Definitely. Yes, I do.
KING: The prosecutor in the case says that he intends to introduce evidence that would allow Kathleen to testify from the grave through statements she made before her death.
Do you know anything about that?
S. DOMAN: Yes. My sister documented every move -- every -- everything that Drew had did to her. She also reached out, as everyone knew, to the state's attorney -- not the current state's attorney, the other state's attorney; to numerous people. And she documented everything and kept it for a very long time and put in a secret place for us to know if anything would happen to her, that that was there.
KING: Nick, when your sister was found dead, did you honestly suspect something?
SAVIO: I mean, any time you see a healthy person just -- they say that she's dead in the bathtub, it just doesn't seem right to me.
KING: What did they tell you, she slipped in the bathtub?
SAVIO: Slipped and fell.
KING: You didn't buy it?
KING: Did you have suspicions, Charlie?
C. DOMAN: Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, I was -- I was around a lot. You know, I worked for my aunt for a while. And she would -- she would always tell us whenever she was around the family about how, you know, how he'd beat her, how he was controlling, how he'd follow her.
KING: Even though...
C. DOMAN: So, yes, he was...
KING: All right, Melissa, did you feel -- how did you feel, even though the initial findings were accidental?
M. DOMAN: I knew that the initial findings were wrong because I know my Aunt Kitty. And everything that I was told about how she was found after she had died, it was not how my Aunt Kitty was. And I mean, I was around my Aunt Kitty enough to know her bathing habits. And it -- it was just wrong. It wasn't the correct finding.
KING: We're going -- to do you think -- well, Martin, is there enough here to -- to make much, frankly, money off this suit?
GLINK: I'm not sure about any money, Larry. The most important thing for the family is that Kitty's killer and abuser is brought to justice. If there happens to be money that flows back to her children or however the court decides that to go, that's way secondary to having justice done for Kathleen and the family.
KING: Well said.
Sue, you will remain with us.
We thank the rest of you for coming.
We'll be calling on you again.
Suspect Drew Peterson was on this show a year ago.
We'll show you Drew in his own words and get reaction in 60 seconds.
KING: We're back.
Drew Peterson's fourth wife, Stacy, went missing in October of 2007. I asked him about that when he was on this show in April of 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM 2008)
KING: Now, Stacy, what -- what happened?
Were you married?
Were you separated?
DREW PETERSON, CHARGED WITH MURDER: We were married. We were living together and we talked that morning and what happened...
KING: Was it a -- was the marriage going through problems?
PETERSON: The marriage had been going through problems since her sister died. And her sister died maybe several months prior of cancer. And it was a very rough death on the family. It was very rough on Stacy.
KING: Where do you think Stacy might be?
PETERSON: Stacy loves male attention. She could be...
KING: She ran off with a guy?
PETERSON: Ran off with a guy and she could be dancing somewhere. I don't know. I just don't know.
KING: And let you go through with this?
PETERSON: If she wanted to get away, do you ever really know anybody?
So, I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Candace Aiken is with us briefly. She's Stacy Peterson's aunt.
What do you make watching him?
What do you make of this?
CANDACE AIKEN, STACY PETERSON'S AUNT: Well, from my Stacy's side of the story is that she was very unhappy in her marriage there toward the end. And she wanted out. And she wanted to take the children. So that's Stacy's side, if she was here to speak today. That's my understanding.
KING: Do you fear that she was harmed?
AIKEN: Yes. I -- I do. Right when I heard that she was -- we couldn't find her, I -- my gut feeling right away was that she was harmed.
KING: Did you know Drew well?
AIKEN: I do. I -- well, I do know him pretty well. I've been to their house a lot of times. I've been around him a lot of times. And I've seen the children, even lately, you know.
KING: When she first went missing, did you suspect him?
AIKEN: When she -- I did.
KING: You did?
AIKEN: I did.
KING: That you suspected that harm had come to her?
AIKEN: Yes, I did suspect harm had come to her.
AIKEN: Right away I knew something was wrong and bad.
KING: We'll have you again back.
KING: Sorry it's short, but we're going to do more next time.
AIKEN: Thank you.
KING: Candace Aiken, Stacy's aunt.
Someone taped hundreds of hours of exclusive interviews with Drew Peterson. We'll hear from him next.
KING: Joining us now in Miami, Yale Galanter, defense attorney, a frequent guest on this show.
As is Jeanine Pirro. She's in Houston, a former D.A. and county court judge for Westchester County, New York. Has her own Court TV reality show.
And in Toronto, Derek Armstrong. Derek is the author of "Drew Peterson Exposed." He conducted hundreds of hours of taped interviews with Drew Peterson and members of the family.
Before we start, let's take a look at what Drew Peterson had to say about the death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio.
He said it on this show in April of last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM 2008)
KING: The third wife.
KING: What happened?
PETERSON: Don't know. I don't know. She -- we got information that she drowned in the bathtub. I was working. I was a watch commander at the police department. And the previous night, I believe it was, she failed to respond at the door to allow me to bring the children home. The children were with me for the weekend.
That was unusual for her, so I started calling her on the phone. And I started questioning with the neighbors. And they were also alerted because it was unusual for her. I had neighbors go into the house and they found her dead in the bathtub.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right. Derek, what's your scenario on all of this with all the interviews you conducted, writing a book about it.
What's your read?
DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR, "DREW PETERSON EXPOSED": Well, my read is that it's a bit overdue -- this, the indictment. I expected it four or five months ago. But basically, it's -- it's probably well timed. They have as much evidence as they're probably going to have.
KING: Now, we never want to pre-convict.
Have you come to conclusions?
ARMSTRONG: I yes, in my own mind I believe that he's guilty. But it's a very circumstantial case. It's going to be a tough, uphill battle for the prosecution.
KING: Jeanine Pirro, you agree with that?
JEANINE PIRRO, HOST, "JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO": Well, you know, I think that circumstantial cases, Larry, are stronger than we generally give them credit for. And a circumstantial case involves forensic evidence. It involves the kind of evidence where you don't rely on eyewitness testimony or the motives of individuals, but you rely on scientific and forensic evidence.
What we will be hearing, though, is a combination of possibly Drew Peterson setting up an alibi for himself. And the real issue in this case will be the admissibility of the hearsay statements...
PIRRO: ...that Kathleen Savio made before she died, which is always relevant in domestic violence homicides.
KING: Yale, could that eventually go to the Supreme Court?
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CLIENT, O.J. SIMPSON: Oh, it will absolutely go to the Supreme Court. Courts -- other courts -- courts in California, Larry, have already struck down this type of a hearsay rule. So the prosecution definitely has an uphill battle. The other problem they have, quite frankly, is they made this law for this case. So the def -- you know, his defense team is going to have what's called an ex post facto argument, saying, listen, this was not the law that was in place when this homicide occurred, it was a law that was made afterwards. This law shouldn't be used anyway. The law that was in place or the admissibility rules that were in place at the time of the death are the rules that should be used.
So I think the defense has a lot of strong arguments here to keep this hearsay evidence out of court.
KING: Jeanine, because it's a law, though, the judge will have to admit it?
PIRRO: Well, you know, the truth is, Larry, when I was a judge -- and even when I was trying these cases, there are general exceptions to the hearsay rule. As a judge, you don't even need a law. So forget about -- and Yale makes a good point, expose facto is an argument that will be made, that the law was passed after the crime occurred.
However, there are exceptions to the hearsay rule -- present sense impression, excited utterance, dying declaration, business record exception.
PIRRO: She put in the order of protection request that he had threatened to kill her.
KING: I've got you.
PIRRO: That is a business document. It may come in automatically, irrespective of the law.
KING: Derek, what did you make of Drew Peterson?
ARMSTRONG: He's a -- he's a very calm, very cool fish. He's going to be hard to get anything out of. When I -- I interviewed him, he has a few tells. You know when he's lying if you know what to look for. He'll scratch his left shoulder when he's lying, usually -- when I interviewed him, anyway.
He'll look you straight in the eye when he's telling the truth -- those sorts of little things.
ARMSTRONG: ...someone mentioned his alibi. His alibi really is his children and Stacy. And, of course, as we know, Stacy's not around.
KING: If he takes the stand in his own defense, would he be a good witness? ARMSTRONG: He'd be a great witness. He said to me a few times that he is a great con man. He learned that as an undercover narcotics officer. He can con anybody, is the way he put it. And he's very convincing.
KING: We'll be back with more with this great panel right after this.
KING: Yale, does the fact that Drew was an ex-cop give him any kind of an edge with a jury?
GALANTER: I -- I don't think he's got any edges here, Larry. I think -- I think Drew has two major problems.
One is he's given so many pre-arrest statements that if he takes the stand, the prosecution will be able to meticulously go through those statements and even the smallest inconsistency they'll be able to get him on.
The second problem he has is look at his behavior today. I mean, he's joking with the media, you know, making statements about bling, about the handcuffs. This is a very, very serious charge and jurors don't like people who don't take these things seriously.
So I think him being a police officer is not going to help him in this case. I think he's already done himself a lot of damage.
KING: Jeanine, do you think the defense will get a successful request for a change of venue?
PIRRO: You know, I'm not so sure about that. And I understand, Larry, that the prosecution is going to object to it. But I'm not so sure it's such a good idea.
At the end of the day, I mean wouldn't -- wouldn't the prosecution want to try him there?
Aren't the people of Bolingbrook disgusted with the fact that their own police department initially covered this up as a -- as an accidental drowning?
I would think that it would be better for the prosecution.
But they'll ask for the change of venue. Whether they get it, I don't know. It's a national case. Everyone's heard about this case.
But along with that, Larry, I think that, in addition to this indictment, I want to know who's answering the questions about where this cover-up started.
How does a woman who calls the police department 18 times against Drew Peterson and is the victim of an accidental drowning -- how do they not investigate that more thoroughly...
PIRRO: ...and why wasn't it done?
KING: Derek, from all of your research and interviews, if he -- this is an if -- if he did it, why do you think he did it?
ARMSTRONG: Well, his motives are pretty clear. The first one would be, it was his -- it would have been his third divorce. He had four life insurance policies, the house. He has the custody of the kids. There was Stacy in the picture at the time. They were to get married. And they were living just down the street from each other. It was a lot of -- there were a lot of motives, basically.
KING: Yale, if this were Great Britain, we couldn't be doing this show, because you can't have a talk about a trial before the trial takes place.
Would you like to see that here?
GALANTER: No, I -- you know, I think the media does a very good job. I think, you know, panels like this are great. You have, you know, great lawyers like Jeanine and people like me who could balance things out.
I think, you know, the more knowledge that we can give the public about our criminal justice system, the better off we all are.
KING: Jeanine, you agree with that?
PIRRO: Yes, I really do agree with that, Larry. I mean, you know, there was a time in this country when people went to the town square to find out what was going on in courtrooms. Today, in this age of technology, it's nothing more than a continuing education and an open courtroom.
I think it's all good. And I think that the public generally hears both sides.
But at the end of the day, it's those 12 people who will make that final decision.
Derek, how did you get him to agree to do those interviews?
ARMSTRONG: Ego. Basically, Larry, he's got this massive ego. He wants to do anything that exposes him to the public -- books, reality TV shows was the last thing I heard, movie deals, anything he can get.
KING: We have about 30 seconds. Yale, is it tough when you deal with a client who likes to control things himself?
GALANTER: I can tell you from firsthand knowledge, Larry, it is very difficult with clients who like to be in control. And the other thing is, clients who like to talk. I mean, that could really be Drew Peterson's big downfall here, is that every time somebody stuck a microphone or a camera in front of this guy's face, he was talking, talking, talking.
And you know, any good criminal defense lawyer will tell you that if you can silence your client, you're really a step ahead of the game.
PIRRO: But all the better for the prosecution.
KING: Yale Galanter and Jeanine Pirro and Derek Armstrong, thank you very much. We certainly will be calling on you again.
You've waited two nights for this. The one, the only Whoopi Goldberg is next.
KING: She is one of my favorite people. She is Whoopi Goldberg, co-host of "The View," the acclaimed comic, Oscar-winning actress, author of the new children's book, "Sugar Plum Ballerinas: Toeshoe Trouble." There you see its cover. What led to this book?
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Well, it's a series. It's a series of books. So there will be about six of them. Just the idea that people my age and a little -- maybe a little younger sort of force their children into living their dreams as opposed to letting kids do and grow to who they want to be.
So it started to occur to me that that happened probably to a lot of little girls in dance who actually want to be roller skaters and skateboarders and stuff.
KING: Whoopi, that's the book, "Sugar Plum Ballerinas." Why did an acclaimed actress, acclaimed comedienne, Broadway star, movie star, take a role as part of a team that does morning television?
GOLDBERG: Because it was a job, Larry. It's one thing to live on one's movie star fame but it's another actually to pay your bills. So I like to work, I like to work with smart people and it seemed like a good idea at the time. It has worked out well for me. I think it has worked out...
KING: You're enjoying it?
GOLDBERG: ... well for me and them.
KING: You're enjoying it?
GOLDBERG: Yes. Yes. Yes.
KING: Are you surprised that the show got as part of the most influential people in the world from TIME magazine?
GOLDBERG: I think they were kidding when they said it. I said, what? Are you sure? They said, yes. I mean, it's wonderful. Thank goodness. Thank goodness people wanted to have those conversations and they're having them now and if we help to get them out there, that's a great thing.
KING: We've had all our "View" people on this week and a pleasure to add you to the list. Concerning celebrity-dom and attention, is it possible do you think that Barack Obama and Michelle, there might be a line where they get too much attention?
GOLDBERG: I don't think you can get too much attention as the president of the United States. I mean, you know, if he was just a senator, or just a guy kicking it, yes, this might be a little much.
But I mean, listen, he has got a huge gig he is trying to do. He's trying to repair our reputation in the rest of the world. He is trying to repair our image. He is trying to get the banks together. He is trying to get education off and running. You know, he has bitten off a huge amount, which I have to say, you know, it's a hundred and what, 15 days? I'm thrilled to see that in 115 days he is not joking about his agenda. And whether they all work or not is not the issue. But the effort is being put forth and that is really what I care about, the effort.
Now he's not going to get it all right.
KING: You talked with Michelle Obama the other night, I understand. What about?
GOLDBERG: Actually, I did not get to talk to Michelle Obama. I was talking to J.J. Abrams because I was going to get to see "Star Trek" and that's where I was focused. And I know that seems a little rude and wrong, but one has to have their priorities, and you know?
I -- so I didn't get the opportunity to talk to her but I would have said how proud I was to have her come over to England and be one of the few people that could actually touch the queen.
KING: I know she was on your show, she was on this show, what do you think of her?
GOLDBERG: Listen, I think she's great. She's exactly what I would like to see in a first lady.
I mean, I love the idea that she's raising children, that she's raising awareness, that she wears $4 sneakers and $500 sneakers, that she wears gazillion dollar dresses and $299 dresses. She is a person and I like that. I want her to be a person. I don't mind that she wears sleeveless dresses. They look fantastic on her.
KING: All right. Let's touch a lot of bases. Have you overcome the fear of flying?
GOLDBERG: I don't know if I've totally overcome it, but I have flown. I have flown six times in the last month-and-a-half as opposed to not at all in the last 13 years. So the folks over at Virgin Air have a program that only exists unfortunately in London. And because of them and that program and "The View," which sort of put me together with them, I think I've gotten over a great deal of it.
KING: I salute you. It's not an easy phobia to get over.
GOLDBERG: No, it's not. But I tell you, they send a pilot and a psychologist and a person who has been through the program. And when you discover all of the leaps and bounds that aviation has taken since my fear began, it was surprising. Certain things can never happen again.
And I wish there was a section in some newspaper that says "great things that are happening," so you could read about good stuff.
KING: That's good stuff.
GOLDBERG: I mean, God bless Sully. Sully would have been able to tell me this too.
KING: Good stuff.
GOLDBERG: But you know, it's a great thing.
KING: Right back with Whoopi Goldberg after this.
KING: We're back with Whoopi Goldberg, who I remember was introduced on Broadway by Mike Nichols in one of the great one-girl performances of all time.
All right. Let's ask about "Ghost" and Patrick -- have you spoken to Patrick Swayze?
GOLDBERG: I spoke to Patrick a couple weeks ago. And, you know, he's -- he's doing what he always does, is he gets up every day and goes and fights to be the best performer he can, have the best health elements he can, and, you know, whatever the disease is doing, he's paying no attention to it.
So the -- the -- the stories about his demise are way, way, way, way too early. I mean, you know, he's not paying attention to it, so I'm not going to pay attention to it.
KING: He is a terrific guy. What was -- what was he like to work with?
GOLDBERG: Oh, he was terrible. No, he was great. Of course, he was fantastic. You know, he's just -- what people don't really know about Patrick is that he is -- he wants to be a comedian. That is his great wish, is to be a funny man. And he has...
KING: You know who was good in that movie?
KING: You know who was good in that movie? The Goldwyn kid.
KING: Tony, he was a great villain actor, great villain.
GOLDBERG: Yes, he was. We had all kinds of great -- it was just a great movie all the way around.
KING: OK, Elizabeth Edwards, she's on this show next week, she's on your show next week. We all know about her husband. She has written a book. What do you make of that whole story? She has in some circles been criticized for writing about it. What do you think?
GOLDBERG: You know, Larry, having had my life displayed in public, I just -- I don't wish it on anybody. So, you know, I don't know much about what's going to happen. I'm looking forward to -- to meeting her and -- and sitting down with the other ladies and talking to her. I'm sorry she has to do it.
KING: Yes, me too. What -- what do you make of this Miss California controversy and what she said about same-sex marriage and about semi-nude photos, that whole story of stories?
GOLDBERG: You know, I mean, the truth of the matter is, she's entitled to her opinion, and that was her opinion, and I respect her for it. I disagree with her opinion, but that doesn't mean anything. She and I could go still hang out, if she wanted to hang with me. But that was her opinion. That's how she felt.
And when you ask a question, you can't really hope that someone is going to give you the answer that you want to hear. You just sort of brace yourself for whatever they're going to say.
Nude photos? You know, I don't have any of me, but I hope hers are good.
KING: You recently told the Radio Times, by the way, that you've fallen in lust -- in lust a lot in your life.
KING: Is lust good?
GOLDBERG: Oh, it was at the time.
GOLDBERG: I find it to be wonderful.
KING: Does it still happen?
GOLDBERG: Yes. Yes, it does.
KING: That's good.
GOLDBERG: I don't act on it, but it does still happen. KING: You're still friendly with the men you've had relationships with, too, right?
GOLDBERG: The ones that will be friendly with me. Yes, you know, I figure if you have spent that much time with anybody, any man that has been in your life or any woman for that matter, if you can't find the friendship aspect that says, you know, I can't live with you, but I certainly like you and still respect you, I'm like, but we don't work, but you work as my friend, yes, I try to keep friendships. I prefer that.
KING: You're not involved with anyone now?
GOLDBERG: I think it's important. Hmm?
KING: You involved with anyone now?
GOLDBERG: Larry, you know I would never answer a question like that.
KING: Well, you know, I'm interested.
GOLDBERG: I'm self-involved right now. You can't see what I'm doing.
KING: Whoopila (ph)...
GOLDBERG: I'm self-involved right...
KING: Whoopila (ph), cut it out...
GOLDBERG: That's right. I'm sorry.
KING: We'll be back with the woman whose parents are the only ones who can say they were "making Whoopi." I'm sorry about that. Don't go away.
GOLDBERG: That's all right.
KING: And we'll turn to some Twitters now, a tweet for Whoopi. Whattagirl (ph) asks: "Do you feel like a referee at times on 'The View'?"
GOLDBERG: Yes. Yes. You know, it's like being -- you know how you carve the turkey, and you're standing there the carving thing, and one of the family says something, and then another part of the family responds, and you're just sort of standing there with a fork and knife, you know, and you've got to sort of put it down and go, listen, can we talk about this after we eat? So you know, it's a lot of surfing.
KING: Another tweet asks Whoopi if she thinks legislation and taxation of marijuana is a good way to help the economy and reduce drug violence. In fact, there are thoughts given to the governor of California...
GOLDBERG: Make it legal?
KING: ... to legalize it. He hasn't said yes, but he's looking into it.
GOLDBERG: Well, I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to look into. I mean, we've tried everything else and it hasn't quite worked, so maybe if we legalize it, we can take some of the onus off of it.
KING: Sherri Shepherd, the newest member of your show, will be on this show tomorrow night to complete our week's look at "The View" members. She's the newest, of course, as we said. What has she brought to the show?
GOLDBERG: Oh, she makes me laugh. I mean, that's what she has brought to me. She makes me laugh. And she's -- she's just a nice girl.
KING: Are you -- are you anxious to see the new "Star Trek"? Because you were in "Star Trek."
GOLDBERG: Yes, I was in "Star Trek." I've seen it.
KING: Oh, then tell us! Is it...
GOLDBERG: I loved it.
KING: Yes, they're raves, huh?
GOLDBERG: Well, for -- you know, for me, here's the best way for me to describe it. You know, we always know that James T. Kirk is fighting the bad guys, and he always is a great fighter. In this, we find out that, you know, he got his behind kicked a lot when he was younger, then he became a great fighter.
You know, we find -- we find them evolving as we meet them, and that made me happy. If you're going to bring the franchise back, then you have to bring it back in a new and exciting way. And I think J.J. has done a really good job with it. I'm -- I'm very happy to see it. I was so excited. And loud. I was loud in it, you know, watching.
So, you know, have a good time when you go. Don't go thinking you know anything. Just go open and -- and enjoy.
KING: How's the Spock character?
GOLDBERG: This boy -- yes. Yes. The boy is amazing. The young man -- I shouldn't call him a boy. He's a man. The young man that plays Spock, the young man that plays Kirk, all of -- it's cast well. Everybody brings -- brings the old to the new. It's wonderful. You have to see it, Larry. I think you'll really dig it.
KING: Oh, I'm anxious to see it.
KING: How long are you committed to "The View"?
GOLDBERG: Oh, I don't know, another couple years, I guess.
KING: Are you going to stay with it?
GOLDBERG: You know, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do. I will stay as long as it's good and fun. You know, when it starts to become a problem, I suspect that they'll be ready for me to go, and I will be ready to go.
But until then, you know, every day at 11:00, 10:00 California time, you know, hopefully we're talking about some interesting stuff that keeps people interested and -- and, moreover, keeps people discussing stuff. That's really -- you know, for me, that's the -- the great thing, is that we help people remember that they can actually have this dialogue themselves.
GOLDBERG: So it's great.
KING: Whoopi, you are an American treasure. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.
GOLDBERG: Yes, Larry. Bye.
KING: He's a great writer and a great broadcast host. And he knows the world. Fareed Zakaria is next.
KING: We now welcome Fareed Zakaria to LARRY KING LIVE, and it's about time. He's host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," he's editor at Newsweek International, and his New York Times best-selling book "The Post-American World" is now out in paperback.
What led you to write this?
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": You know, I was traveling around the world over the last five or seven years, and I began to notice just the whole place looked so different from what I had noticed, particularly growing up in India in the 1960s and '70s.
You know, I was in Singapore and a cab driver shows me a Ferris wheel, and I said to him, well, that's pretty nice. And he says to me, that's the largest Ferris wheel in the world, sir. I go to China, I go to a shopping mall. The guy showing me around says to me, that's the largest mall in the world.
I thought to myself, that can't be true. I've been to the Mall of the Americas in Minneapolis, and it says right under it, "largest mall in the world," but I begin to discover, you know, you go to Macao, and the casino there, the Venetian, is three times the size of the one in Las Vegas, the largest casino in the world, largest hotel in the world.
So, suddenly, I realized that the ground was shifting. All these other countries had been rising for the last 20 years, and they had reached a kind of critical mass, and it made me think of this as a very different world.
KING: And brilliantly written, I might add. OK. Some things current in our limited time -- this time -- next time, a lot more time. Obama meets this week with the -- he met already with presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan, proclaimed they have made progress. In your opinion, have they? Where's that going?
ZAKARIA: I think the crucial question is, how did the guy who wasn't in that photograph -- in that photo-op, feel? You had the president of Afghanistan, the president of Pakistan and Obama. The guy who wasn't there was the head of the Pakistani military, who actually runs the country.
And until we can figure out whether he's on board and whether the Pakistani military is finally really going to take this on, not just for a couple of weeks while congressional bills are pending and foreign aid is pending, but are they going to really turn on the Taliban and turn on these jihadi groups that they created?
That's when we'll know things have changed.
KING: Could this get worse?
ZAKARIA: Yes, it could definitely get worse. In fact, in Pakistan, it's likely to get worse, because these guys don't know how to do counterinsurgency, the Pakistani military. They're doing pretty much what we did in Iraq in 2003-2004, which is large-scale operations, kill a lot of civilians, drive the others out of the area. That creates chaos. It's actually fertile ground for the Taliban.
What they need to do is smart insurgency the way General Petraeus did it, but they're not there yet. They've got a long way to go.
KING: Do you think Americans have the stomach to do what's necessary in Afghanistan? And does Obama have the clout?
ZAKARIA: You know, I'm a great believer in America's staying power. I think we sometimes sell ourselves short. We're still on the banks of the Rhine 60 years after World War II, we're still in Okinawa in Japan, we're still in South Korea. If we can demonstrate that there is a national interest, which I believe there is, and if it seems as though the policy is broadly speaking successful.
The key is, do we have a strategy that's working, not, do Americans have the stomach for it. Americans have the stomach to stay and -- you know, we've stayed in Europe for 60 years, we've stayed in Japan for 60 years. KING: How is Secretary of State Clinton doing?
ZAKARIA: I think remarkably well. I think that what's most extraordinary about what Secretary of State Clinton is doing is she is very much a team player. This was the principal political rival of the president. Now, that kind of thing rarely works.
You know there's a lot of personal tension, there are tensions among the staff. There are fights. Also, if you remember, most of the policy disagreements between candidate Hillary Clinton and candidate Barack Obama were on foreign policy.
It was on talking to dictators, it was on, you know, the relaxation of the Cuban embargo, and on all those things, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has moved pretty much in line with President Obama. So, I give her high marks. Plus, you know, she's very smart, she's very energetic, and that all comes through.
KING: I've interviewed him a number of times, and I note that the Dalai Lama is on your program this Sunday. What can we look forward to?
ZAKARIA: You know, a lot of frustration, as I'm sure you know, Larry. You've talked to him many times. He's a very patient man, a man who has advocated nonviolence for many, many decades. I think his patience is running out.
He's characterizing the Chinese behavior in Tibet more and more bluntly. I think he thinks time is running out both for him and for the Tibetan people. For the Tibetan people, because their culture is being swamped by this Chinese invasion, as it were, lots of Chinese coming into Tibet.
But also he's 74 years old. And I think he probably senses that he doesn't know what the Tibetan movement is going to look like after him. It might get a lot more violent which might lead to a very bloody crackdown.
So I got a sense that he was very apprehensive about the future.
KING: I just want to say on a personal note, Fareed, I read you all the time in Newsweek. I think your show is terrific. You're a welcome addition to CNN. We're fortunate to have you.
ZAKARIA: And now I've really made it in prime time because this is my first appearance on LARRY KING LIVE, I can boast to my parents.
KING: The first of many. Thank you, Fareed.
ZAKARIA: A pleasure, the pleasure is mine.
KING: Fareed Zakaria, the book, now in paperback, "The Post- American World," a major New York Times" best-seller.
Next week, Elizabeth Edwards and the parents of Casey Anthony are our guest. Right now, time for Anderson Cooper and "AC 360" -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, thanks so much.