Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Dick Cheney on the Attack; A Soldier's Rampage
Aired May 11, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, President Obama's vice president problem: a vice president who just can't stop talking. Even longtime party members are quietly hoping he will step back from the mike, before he drives all the voters away.
Somewhere, Joe Biden is smiling, because the vice president in question, the one making the headlines with his mouth, is Dick Cheney. What he's doing, slamming the next administration, simply hasn't been done. What he's saying, that this administration is making America less safe, is explosive.
The "Raw Politics" from Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is forceful, unflinching and available.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FACE THE NATION")
RICHARD B. CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I don't speak out, then where do we find ourselves, Bob? Then -- then, the critics have free run, and there isn't anybody there on the other side to -- to -- to tell the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: While Republicans try to figure out the best way to take on a popular president, Dick Cheney has a strategy, head on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FACE THE NATION")
CHENEY: They have moved to take down a lot of those policies we put in place that kept the nation safe for nearly eight years from a follow-on terrorist attack like 9/11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: A frequent visitor to Sunday morning talk shows, most recently CBS's "Face the Nation," the former vice president accuses the new president of making the country less safe, of hamstringing the intelligence community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FACE THE NATION")
CHENEY: When you get rid of enhanced interrogation techniques, for example, or -- or the terrorists surveillance program, you reduce the intelligence flow to the intelligence community, upon which we based those policies that were so successful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: He has spent his life in a cause of conservatism. He was beloved at the core of the party. He still is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: What motivation does Dick Cheney have to go out and say these things? Is it possible that Dick Cheney is motivated by national interest? Is it possible that Dick Cheney is motivated by love of and for his country?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Senator Joe Lieberman, harshly critical of candidate Obama's national security views, springs to his defense now.
He told MSNBC, "We remain as safe as we can possibly be in a world in which there is Islamist extremists who want to attack us."
Though Republicans are fighting over who will speak for the party, Cheney is solo in his willingness to speak for the Bush era, its approach to terrorists, and its approval of questionable interrogation methods.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
CHENEY: I'm convinced, absolutely convinced, that we save thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: In his spare time, Cheney is diving into interparty politics, most recently, the Rush Limbaugh vs. Colin Powell question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
CHENEY: Well, if I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I would go with Rush Limbaugh, I think. I think my take on it was, Colin had already left the party. I didn't know he was still a Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Right between the shoulder blades, with a smile, no less.
At the White House, Dick Cheney has become must-see TV.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They're essentially going forward by looking backward. And, if the vice president believes that's a way of growing and expanding the Republican Party, then we're happy to leave him to those devices.
CROWLEY (on camera): From a policy standpoint, the White House disagrees with Cheney. Politically, they think he's so unpopular, he hurts Republicans, no matter what he says.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, let's talk strategy now with senior political analyst David Gergen, who has advised presidents, both Democratic and Republican, also Ed Rollins, GOP strategist, political contributor, and Mike Huckabee's former campaign chairman.
David, Dan Quayle played golf in Arizona. Al Gore, I think, for a while, taught journalism in New York. Is it surprising that Dick Cheney is breaking with tradition, that former vice presidents kind of quietly leave the public eye, maybe write a memoir, and -- and blasting so soon after he left office?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I -- it's almost unique, Anderson, but Dick Cheney was also a unique vice president. He had an enormous amount of power.
And I think he feels strongly that the national security policies of the Bush administration protected the country. They're under assault from the Obama administration and from Democrats. There are not very many Republicans standing up.
I think he feels it's his duty to go out there. I -- and, so, I think, in many ways, he's justified in trying to defend the national security policies. What surprised me yesterday was the way he went after Colin Powell. That seemed to me just sort of take leave of his senses. Colin Powell, during the Bush administration, was the single most respected member of that administration.
He's important to the Republican Party. Why would you want to drive him away?
COOPER: But Powell was -- was against Rumsfeld, or there was a lot of clashes between Rumsfeld. And -- and Dick Cheney was a big supporter of Rumsfeld, no?
GERGEN: Well, that's right, but you would that, when asked the question do you choose Powell or over Limbaugh or the other way around, you would have said, I'm proud to have both of them in the Republican Party.
It just seemed to me gratuitous to go after Colin Powell, and, by the way, I think -- I think separated him out from a whole lot of Americans, who respect Colin Powell.
COOPER: Ed Rollins, is -- is Dick Cheney hurting the Republican Party?
ED ROLLINS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I don't think anything could hurt the Republican Party at this point in time. We're -- we're in the wilderness for a period of time. I think Dick Cheney is defending himself, defending what he thinks this administration does. Why... COOPER: Do you think he's helping the Republican Party?
ROLLINS: No, no, he's clearly not. I mean, we have got to look forward, not -- not past. And I don't think anybody at this point in time wants to go back.
I think, though, realistically, his charges that the -- that the world is not a safer place or that the administration is not doing all they can are -- are true charges.
I think this administration has done everything that they can. They want to close Gitmo, which is no big deal at this point in time. They don't want to torture people. But you have still got the same secretary of defense. You have still got the same FBI director. You have still got the same due diligence. They're going to after the Taliban.
I don't think there would be a dramatic difference if McCain or Bush was still president on our national security.
COOPER: Well, how much, then -- if you think he's wrong about what he's saying, do you think he's saying it because he's just trying to protect -- you know, because he actually believes it, or is it -- is it, you know, trying to protect his legacy?
ROLLINS: Well, I think, to a certain extent, he feels he's being personally attacked. He thinks his president was being attacked. And I think, to a certain extent, as George W. Bush is not going to defend himself, so he feels it's his -- kind of his role to go do that.
COOPER: David Gergen, how important do you think Dick Cheney takes his own legacy?
GERGEN: Very importantly.
You know, he's worked for some 40 years on behalf of the Republican Party and the conservative causes. And I think he thinks his place in history is important to him. But I think -- I also think, though, more than that, Anderson, you know, you can disagree with Dick Cheney, as I do on many issues, but you have to say the man is serious about national security.
He has a view with it I don't totally agree with, but I respect the fact that it is a view that is rooted in some -- some real problems that we do face in the world. I think Ed Rollins is right about the -- about Obama's foreign policy. Brent Scowcroft, we increasingly know, is very comfortable with Barack -- Barack Obama's foreign policy.
But Dick Cheney and -- and those neocons -- neocons who got us into Iraq have a very, very different view of reality, and they're serious about it. I don't agree with it, but I respect the fact that they -- they're coming from a serious place. They're not just playing games here.
COOPER: Ed, why do you think he did weigh in on the Limbaugh/Colin Powell...
ROLLINS: I think he was asked a question. I think -- I think there's a little bad blood between he and Colin. I think there are a lot of Republicans who were very offended by Colin supporting Obama in the -- in the way he did it. He didn't tell John McCain, who had been a lifelong friend. He didn't tell Cheney. He went on "Meet the Press" and announced it.
And I think people thought he was being political and sort of disloyal to an administration that had pretty much made him. Dick Cheney, basically, as much as anybody, made Colin Powell who he was. And I think, to a certain extent, he felt some disloyalty there.
COOPER: Interesting.
No doubt we're going to be talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: I don't agree to that.
COOPER: What do you mean, David?
GERGEN: I just don't agree I don't agree with -- I don't agree with the Dick Cheney made Colin Powell who he was.
I respect Ed's views a lot, as you know, but I think Colin Powell had a lot to do with making Colin Powell who he was.
ROLLINS: There's no question he's an outstanding guy.
But, I mean, he -- he went up in our administration. He was a colonel, a one-star general -- under Cap Weinberger -- he went under through our administration, David. You know, he could have -- he could have retired. You know, there's a lot of generals out there and lots of people could have being at the top of the heap. No disrespect to Colin Powell, but it's -- it's all about politics.
GERGEN: Well...
COOPER: All right. Well, we will leave it there.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: David Gergen, Ed Rollins, thank you very much.
ROLLINS: Thank you.
COOPER: As always, we try to bring as many different points of view as possible.
There's more at AC360.com right now, including a post with a provocative title: "Is Dick Cheney Emboldening the Enemy?" You can check that out at AC360.com. There's also a live chat happening now. Talk with other viewers and myself and Randi Kaye tonight, in for Erica. And Randi Kaye has a live Webcast during the break as well. All right, up next: An American soldier goes on a rampage that leaves five American -- fellow American service members dead, ironically, at a clinic in Iraq aimed at preventing this kind of violence. We have new information on the shooter and a discussion on the kinds of strains that come with tour after tour of duty in a combat zone.
Also, trouble in paradise, deadly trouble -- this loving couple, a loving woman, sudden illness, and a mysterious death. What caused her to die? And was it connected to another death at the same guest house just hours later?
And, later, the beef over what was said at President Obama's roast by Wanda Sykes, the comedienne, and by the president himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Dick Cheney was supposed to be here but he is very busy working on his memoirs, tentatively titled, "How to Shoot Friends and Interrogate People."
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also coming up: Miss California now blaming Satan for the question she was asked about same-sex marriage, as she waits for Donald Trump to decide whether or not she gets to keep her crown -- all that and more ahead tonight.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It's the worst attack on American troops in Iraq in a month. It's also, tragically, the single worst case of soldier-on- soldier violence in the entire war. Five soldiers killed by a fellow soldier now in custody at a clinic designed to defuse the very kind of rage that boiled over today, apparently.
A senior Pentagon official telling CNN's Chris Lawrence that the gunman was, in fact, a patient.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The attack happened around 2:00 p.m. local time. The suspect, a U.S. soldier, opened fire inside the sprawling Camp Liberty in Baghdad, one of the largest military bases in Iraq.
Pentagon officials say the soldier killed five comrades before he was captured. It is the deadliest act of fratricide for the U.S. since the beginning of the war. Defense Secretary Gates, who's ordered a full investigation, was horrified to hear the news. ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: If the preliminary reports are confirmed, such a tragic loss of life at the hands of our own forces is a cause for great and urgent concern. And I can assure you that it will get this department's highest-priority attention.
COOPER: At the White House, President Obama was said to be deeply saddened by the shooting.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's heart goes out to the families and friends of all the service members involved in this horrible tragedy. He was shocked by the news of this incident and will press to ensure that we fully understand what happened at the clinic.
COOPER: Military sources tell CNN the rampage took place at a stress clinic inside Camp Liberty, a facility where U.S. troops are treated for post-traumatic stress disorder and other emotional, psychological issues.
Retired Navy Lieutenant Commander Heidi Kraft is a clinical psychologist who's worked at stress clinics in Iraq.
LIEUTENANT COMMANDER HEIDI KRAFT (RET)., U.S. NAVY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: We were there to handle a variety of mental health concerns. A third of people came to see us because of acute combat- related grief. Another third were dealing with transition of things that were going on at home that were different -- difficult to deal with there. And then maybe another third had previous psychological issues, maybe a history of depression or anxiety, something that required some management of our team.
COOPER: Sources tell CNN that the suspect was a patient at the same clinic that he opened fire on. Some of his victims worked there. Others were receiving treatment for stress.
Also, a question of ammunition -- except for high-ranking officers and military police, all service members are required to remove their ammunition clips from weapons before entering certain areas of the base, like the clinic. But, with no official pat-downs or searches, it's a policy that relies on the honor code.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: According to a study in "The New England Journal of Medicine," about one in six soldiers returning from war in Iraq show signs of post-traumatic stress disorder or other emotional difficulties.
Reports are, the gunman was on his third tour of duty.
Let's dig deeper now Paul Rieckhoff, founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.
You served in Iraq. What was your reaction when you heard this story? PAUL RIECKHOFF, FOUNDER & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA: Well, it's tragic. I mean, it's deeply disturbing, but I don't think folks who have been in theater are surprised.
I mean, our friends are over there daily. They're facing a tremendously tough work environment, threats from the enemy, and repeated tours. You know, we were talking in the break. A member of our staff has just deployed for his fourth call-up. And he's a Marine Corps reservist.
COOPER: I mean, that's un -- yes, a reservist being called up four times, it's never happened. I mean, that's just -- it's unprecedented.
RIECKHOFF: The pace is absolutely unprecedented.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: So, they haven't even been really able to study the full effects of this kind of stuff.
RIECKHOFF: That's right. There was a good study by the RAND Corporation that put the figures at about one in four folks coming back with some kind of stress-related mental health injury.
But these folks are going back over and over again. Each time you're deployed, you're more likely to have a mental health injury. And we have got a critical shortage of mental health care workers, just not enough psychologists, psychiatrists, in theater and when they come home.
So, these things pile up. And you have got over 600,000 folks who have been to theater more than once. And it's a huge toll.
COOPER: And it's just the stress on the soldier or the Marine or the sailor or the service member. It's the families that they leave behind. I mean, three tours, it takes a huge toll on families, and then that adds more stress to the service members.
RIECKHOFF: It does. That's exactly right. You don't just deploy a soldier. You deploy the entire family.
COOPER: Right.
RIECKHOFF: So, you have got mothers, brothers, wives, husbands back home who are extremely concerned. And they're dealing with a tough economy. So, everything the average American is dealing with back home, these folks are dealing with while they have got a loved one deployed.
COOPER: Right.
RIECKHOFF: Mortgage foreclosure rates around military bases, for example, are about four times the national average. All that goes into the stress of a deployed soldier, who's already got enough to worry about in combat duty.
COOPER: The fact that there is a -- a stress clinic, for lack of a better word, in theater is actually a good sign. I mean, that's a new development. That's a relatively new development.
RIECKHOFF: It is. It's huge progress. We didn't have that when I was in theater...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: It was always, when they came back, they would maybe go through a little brief kind of course on coming back.
RIECKHOFF: That's right.
COOPER: But now they're -- they have kind of moved doctors out into the field.
RIECKHOFF: That's right. And that's what they need to do. They need to get them out on the front lines, so, if you have a casualty in a unit, if you have someone killed, they can go and get immediate counseling, get immediate therapy. They have got relaxation techniques. They have got mental health experts on staff.
But we need do to a better job of screening them. Right now, there is no mandatory face-to-face mental health screening with a qualified mental health professional. Our organization, IAVA, has been calling for that for years. We need that. And we need to really ramp up the number of people who are working in this area across the board.
COOPER: But there's still such stigma about seeking help, I mean, in society, in general, but in the military in particular.
RIECKHOFF: Tremendous stigma.
I mean, that's why we launched a massive public service announcement campaign to address that stigma, to talk about what veterans face when they come from. And we set up a Web site, too, communityofveterans.org. Veterans can go there, get support from other veterans. They can get mental health resources and look for the warning signs, for not just...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Well, do you think the military is taking it seriously enough?
RIECKHOFF: I think they are.
I mean, Gates is saying the right here. Admiral Mullen is on it. The president's involved. I think they're making the right steps and they're saying the right things, but they are covering a lot of ground. They have got a lot of catching up to do to get us up to speed to meet this demand.
COOPER: Yes. Well, it's just -- it's a tragedy that we have you on to talk about this -- this -- this incident. It's just horrible.
Paul, I appreciate you being on with us.
RIECKHOFF: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Paul Rieckhoff, thanks.
One other note: America's top commander in Afghanistan is being replaced -- Defense Secretary Gates, himself recently back from a tour of Afghanistan, making the call, with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs beside him, essentially firing the guy, on the way out, General David McKiernan, incoming, Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal, a specialist in counterinsurgencies.
Just ahead tonight: President Obama strikes a deal with health care leaders, and the mystery surrounding an American woman's death at a Thai resort. And she's not the only woman to die there, same place, same time. The question is, why?
Also tonight, the backlash against Elizabeth Edwards -- her husband cheated on her, and she wrote about it. Now she's talking to a lot of folks about it. Is she out for revenge? Or is even asking such a question blaming the victim? We will have a debate on that, the facts, so you can decide for yourself.
And the priest in love speaks out about his romance and leaving the priesthood -- details when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, she began the night with some pizza and a party. She also watched the sun set. It would be one of the last nights of her life. By morning, this young woman, Jill St. Onge from Seattle, would be dead after falling violently ill at a paradise resort in Thailand.
As you will see, she wasn't the only tourist to die under mysterious circumstances. The question is, what happened to these two women?
Drew Griffin is here with an "Up Close" look at the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was supposed to be a dream vacation for Jill St. Onge, a three-month journey through Asia, capped by a visit to Thailand's Phi Phi Islands. There was even a marriage proposal from fiance Ryan Kells.
But then something went horribly wrong. Kells says he found St. Onge gravely ill in their room at the Laleena Guest House. He put her in a shopping cart and searched desperately for help.
RYAN KELLS, FIANCE OF JILL ST. ONGE: She couldn't breathe. She was vomiting. And I tried to run her to a hospital. And she ended up passing within maybe 12 hours of the first symptoms of being sick.
GRIFFIN: Her family in California was crushed.
ROBERT ST. ONGE, BROTHER OF JILL ST. ONGE: It's really bad. It's about the worst thing any of us have ever gone through.
GRIFFIN: The Phi Phi Islands are a popular tourist destination off the west coast of Thailand. And up until she died, St. Onge seemed to be having the time of her life. "Food, drink, good books, sun, and warm waters. What else do ya need?" she wrote on her blog.
St. Onge was only 27 and described by her friends and family as healthy and vibrant.
BROOKE FRIED, BEST FRIEND OF JILL ST. ONGE: She was just so much a part of our lives. It's impossible to think about what it's going to be like without her.
GRIFFIN: Adding to the mystery, the Associated Press reports that , within hours of St. Onge becoming ill, another tourist also was sickened and died. She, too, had been staying at the Laleena Guest House, a budget hotel room where rooms go for as little as $17 a night. That woman was Julie Michelle Bergheim, a 22-year-old from Norway.
A Norwegian newspaper, citing a local police chief, reported, traces of cyanide had been found in her stomach. Autopsy reports for the two women have yet to be released, but authorities are looking at the possibility that Bergheim and St. Onge may have died from food poisoning.
That is cold comfort for St. Onge's friends, who have erected a memorial at the bar where she worked.
WHITNEY FILSINGER, BARTENDER: It's a little hard to be here, because we can feel her here, and we miss her. And the hardest part, I think, is that we just don't really know what happened to her.
GRIFFIN: The owner of the guest house in Thailand where both women were staying says the resort has nothing to do with their death. He thinks they died from drinking too much.
Until the mystery is solved, a cloud of uncertainty could cast a shadow over this tropical paradise.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Sources are telling us that Thai police investigators have ruled out poisoning from the nearby water treatment plant.
And about the report of cyanide poisoning we mentioned, there's been some speculation it could have come from eating a root, a cassava, but medical experts we talked to say, Anderson, that doesn't seem plausible.
So, they're waiting for the toxicology results, which could take six, eight weeks.
COOPER: There was a report that one of them was cremated? Is that...
GRIFFIN: That's right. St. Onge was cremated. Now we're learning that that was to expedite her return to the U.S. Thai authorities have retained some tissue samples for the family, so the family could do its own independent testing, if they wish.
COOPER: Wow. But there is a body for the other woman, do we know?
GRIFFIN: Yes. I believe that is the case, that her body has not gone back yet.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: And Thai officials are holding the autopsy in the next couple of days.
COOPER: All right. We will keep following it.
Drew, thanks. Appreciate it.
Coming up next: Elizabeth Edwards' new book on her husband's affair. She seems to be draw as much criticism as compassion. Was she right to pen the tell-all? We will talk about that ahead.
President Obama says his new health care plan could save your family thousands of dollars. We will talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about the president's proposal and what happened today.
We have also got the highlights from the president's speech at the White House Correspondents Dinner and the moments that some say went just too far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIAN: Rush Limbaugh, "I hope the country fails."
I hope his kidneys fail. How about that?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Miss California's crown is on the line. She's -- she's now saying that Satan was involved in the question she answered about same-sex marriage -- details on that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight: the backlash against Elizabeth Edwards. The former politician's wife continues to speak out on the affair that torpedoed her husband John's political ambitions and threatened to end her more-than-30-year marriage.
Appearing on NBC's "Today Show" to promote her new book, Edwards defended her decision to go public with the story. And while some sympathize, some critics are charging, take tell-all is destructive and motivated by revenge.
Randi Kaye has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She has terminal cancer spreading through her body, and she has no idea how long she will live, a horrible reality that's left many wondering, why would Elizabeth Edwards spend such precious time dishing about one of the most painful experiences of her life, her husband's affair?
One reason, she has a book to promote -- first stop on her media blitz, "Oprah."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW")
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, WIFE OF FORMER SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS: Probably, the worst moment was when I -- when he told me that he had this single indiscretion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Then, this morning, NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")
Edwards I need him. And I think -- you know, I really believe he needs me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: But the response may not be all Mrs. Edwards expected. There has been some positive feedback.
ROGER SIMON, CHIEF POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THEPOLITICO.COM: Let's, you know, be fair. Here is a woman who has terminal cancer. You know, every day is a trial for her. Do I have sympathy for that? Yes, sure I do. Why wouldn't I?
KAYE: But recent reviews from some women, hardly glowing.
"New York Times" columnist Maureen Dowd last week wrote: "Saint Elizabeth has dragged him back into the public square for a flogging on 'Oprah.'"
And Tina Brown didn't hold back today either on her blog, The Daily Beast.
TINA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, THEDAILYBEAST.COM: I think that Elizabeth just must have misjudged all of this. She just, I think, struck a raw nerve with women, who really have all felt simultaneously, what about your kids?
KAYE: Mrs. Edwards says she wrote the book for her children, so they don't grow up believing their parents are flawless, and for other victims of infidelity.
(on camera): Do you think she's doing this because it's therapeutic?
BROWN: I'm sure whether Elizabeth Edwards really knows why she is doing this. It could be that she feels that it's therapeutic. I think, in some ways, she's trying to justify, explain, perhaps to herself, why she stayed with this man and why she feels that she made the right choices. All I know is, is that to watch is it like a sort of car crash.
KAYE: Edwards says the book is not about revenge against the other woman. But Brown believes, she is in denial.
BROWN: She doesn't want to even give the other woman a name, but yet she can't stop talking about her.
KAYE: When Oprah asked Edwards whether Rielle Hunter's toddler could be John Edwards' child, she only referred to the child as "it."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW")
EDWARDS: I have no idea. It doesn't look like my children, but I don't have any idea.
ROGER SIMON, CHIEF POLITICAL COLUMNIST, POLITICO: There is obviously still a real deep, open wound there that she can't refer to the child of Rielle Hunter.
KAYE (on camera): The Edwards family may not need the money, but if her book is a success, Mrs. Edwards may benefit in other ways. No longer standing silently at her husband's side, she has found strength in her own voice.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, whichever way you look at it, Elizabeth Edwards' story has obviously touched a nerve. Joining me, In Session anchor Lisa Bloom and Faye Wattleton, co-founder and president for the Center for the Advancement of Women.
Faye, why do you think she wrote this?
FAYE WATTLETON, FOUNDER/PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF WOMEN: I think that she wrote about her adversities. It's very interesting that only one aspect of the book is being focused on.
COOPER: Right. Almost the entire book, this is one...
WATTLETON: There's an entire book, and this is one. And it has been sort of the flash point for all of the attention. And the title is about life's adversities. If she had left it out, wouldn't we have found that strange? I think she's in sort of a no-win situation. So she had to discuss it.
COOPER: Lisa, what do you think?
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, IN SESSION: Well, you know, the book may be better than these interviews that she's giving. And my heart goes out to her because she has suffered a loss of a child and cancer.
But I think she's painting a rather unflattering view of herself in these interviews, depersonalizing Rielle Hunter and the baby, not even naming them, calling them an "it." Really letting John off relatively easily. Yes, she's not completely standing by her man like we've seen others do, Dina McGreevey, Silda Spitzer. She is getting him a little bit. But really, she puts 95 percent of the blame on Rielle Hunter.
COOPER: She says that she seduced her husband.
BLOOM: Yes, by saying "you're so hot." I mean, didn't thousands of women say things like that to him on the campaign trail, and he just folds like a house of cards? And now she goes on the attack against Rielle Hunter? It really doesn't make any sense.
And what about this blameless baby? Doesn't the baby have a right to know who her -- not "it," but her -- father is? I mean, is there ever going to be a paternity test?
WATTLETON: But that's not Elizabeth Edwards' -- Edwards' responsibility.
BLOOM: Don't you think it's humanness?
WATTLETON: They are -- clearly, she is attempting to maintain her marriage and her family as a team. This is a woman who is terminally ill. We don't know the many lawyers and the complexity of their relationship. We don't know how she was raised. Her culture is a very important element here. And the violence to the family is something that she is clearly trying to cope with. And so she brings...
BLOOM: She says she's writing this book for her children. Do they really need to see that their parents aren't perfect?
WATTLETON: Just a second. "The National Enquirer" has covered this story explicitly. Is there anything really here in this book we didn't already know? Mr. Edwards is under federal investigation. It's going to be going on and on and on.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You could make the argument, though -- you could make the argument that this is a letter to her kids, and it's something that they will be able to read.
BLOOM: That's a ridiculous letter to your kids. I would never write my children a letter like my -- "Your dad cheated on me."
COOPER: However many hundreds pages it is, this is probably a very small part to it. I haven't read the book.
BLOOM: What we do learn in the book is that John lied to her by saying it only happened once. She believed that for a long time. Why on earth, then, does she believe his story about the seduction and how this whole thing happened? Why doesn't she even consider the possibility that he was the instigator? That he was an active part of it?
COOPER: You think she should not have written any book at all?
BLOOM: Well, I don't like how she's coming across in the interviews in terms of this affair and how she puts all of the blame on the other woman. I think that's very old-school, and she really lets John off easy. I do have sympathy for her.
WATTLETON: I agree with that. I agree -- I agree with that. I think that he really is to blame for having brought this into the relationship.
But to suggest that somehow she should not speak of it, she shouldn't speak of an experience and how she felt when she found out about it. Thousands, hundreds of thousands of women have had exactly the same experience.
COOPER: Is that why you think it touches a nerve?
WATTLETON: I think it does touch a nerve, because we know what it feels like to be betrayed in a relationship. This is a 30-year marriage. She's at the end of her life. What is the woman to do?
BLOOM: I support her right to speak, Anderson. And I feel like the door is now opening for political wives not to stand steadfastly by their men with that Stepford wife gaze that we all despise. So she's taking a step out of that, and I applaud her for that. But I think there's more steps to go, beyond what we've seen from her.
WATTLETON: Well, I think that this is the step forward. Mrs. Clinton did not acknowledge the Gennifer Flowers. We have been through this. Mr. Clinton had an affair. We talked about that during his campaign. We talked about his infidelities during his White House tenure. And we were -- Hillary was vilified for not speaking out against it and speaking -- speaking up.
And I think that here this woman has tried to write, in human terms, how she felt. That's really how we -- the only aspect of this we are understanding.
COOPER: During the live chat, one of our viewers said, you know, that they're glad she's out there speaking out, that, you know, it lets other people know, it empowers other women who have been cheated on, who know that they're not alone.
BLOOM: How is it empowering, exactly? WATTLETON: That they're not alone.
BLOOM: That you can survive it. That you're not alone, OK, that's true. And we know that a lot of women are cheated on.
I guess the hard question to me is what is the right reaction when your husband cheats on you and you live the public life? What are you supposed to do exactly? I don't think anyone can tell Elizabeth Edwards, "You should leave him. You should stay with him." That's a personal choice.
But once you write a book, you take this out into the public square. You open yourself up for this kind of scrutiny.
WATTLETON: Well, let's -- let's, again, keep in mind that this is a book about many adversities in her life. We focus on the sexuality, the salacious part, and what does that say about us, that we take that out of this?
COOPER: Very good point.
WATTLETON: And we really don't want to deal with the whole context and texture.
COOPER: Often, that's often how these -- that's how -- that's often how these books are promoted, frankly. I mean, they kind of know in advance, all right, they're going to focus on this...
WATTLETON: Right.
COOPER: ... and let the talk shows decide to focus on it. And I think it does say more about us, perhaps, than it does about her.
BLOOM: But she chose to write this book. And she chose to include -- at the time when, frankly, most of us thought this chapter was closed, we were done with John Edwards, weren't we?
WATTLETON: No, we're not. He's under federal investigation as to whether or not his campaign funds were used to support this mistress and the alleged child.
COOPER: The debate's going to continue. Elizabeth Edwards, I think is on "LARRY KING" tomorrow night. And no doubt, she'll be talking about this. Yes.
BLOOM: We'll be watching.
COOPER: All right.
Thanks. Thanks, Faye Wattleton, as well. Great to have you on, as well.
Is Elizabeth Edwards courageous or out for revenge? Let us know what you think. Go to AC360.com. Both or neither? AC360.com, there's a live chat right there. And you can also read excerpts from her book and decide for yourself. As we mentioned, Larry King will have Elizabeth Edwards tomorrow night on his program.
So you can also check out Randi Kaye's live Web cast at AC360.com.
Still ahead, the nation's healthcare providers promising to slash $2 trillion in industry costs. They met with President Obama today. But is that really just a matter of a little nip and tuck, or is healthcare as we know it in for a major overhaul? Dr. Sanjay Gupta talks to us about that.
Also, controversy about a comedian's attack on Rush Limbaugh at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, Wanda Sykes. We'll have that and President Obama's routine, including a shout-out to Sasha and Malia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sasha and Malia aren't here tonight because they're grounded. You can't just take Air Force One on a joyride to Manhattan. I don't care whose kids you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also, Miss California, Carrie Prejean, talks Satan and temptation when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Saying the time to act is now, President Obama summoned representatives from the healthcare industry to the White House today to, he said, reform the system, cut the costs and ease the burden on so many people. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: When it comes to healthcare spending, we are on an unsustainable course that threatens the financial stability of families, businesses and government itself. This is not news to the American people who, over the last decade, have seen their out-of- pocket expenses soar, healthcare costs rise, and premiums double at a rate four times faster than their wages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the meeting ended with a promise. Healthcare industry leaders pledge to save the country $2 trillion over the next ten years and make sure American families are spending less for getting medical care. 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta has studied the plan. He joins us now.
Two trillion dollars over ten years. I mean, it sounds like a huge amount. Is it really, and is it actually going to work?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, no one knows the answer to that. When you talk about healthcare reform, the sort of two broad issues, Anderson, access is one of them. Cost is the other, one which is what everyone's talking about today.
There's no details yet, but we've sort of parsed out these sort of broader brush stokes that we're talking about here. And sort of at the heart of this, I think more than any other issue, is the idea of changing the way -- changing the incentives in terms of the way that doctors and hospitals are paid. That's one of the things that the president's talked about, that the secretary of health talked about, as well.
Also just controlling costs at all levels so that, when you talk about costs at the -- at the hospital level, you talk about it at the patient level, you talk about all sorts of different levels, very important.
Also this idea of creating a culture of prevention. Anderson, you and I have talked about this, this idea that you want to try and prevent these diseases from occurring in the first place. Right now the incentives are to every time a patient gets admitted, it's paid for again. But if you keep the patient from getting admitted to the hospital, keep them from -- prevent them from getting a disease, that's better.
And then health I.T. is something he talks about, as well, this idea that if you create a health infrastructure through technology, hospitals can communicate.
Anderson, if you're in New York, you travel to L.A., you get sick, you don't have to go through the same tests again. You don't have to have your hospital records transferred over. It's all there for you.
COOPER: What is the fundamental problem here? I mean, who is responsible for these costs spiraling out of control?
GUPTA: Well, you know, the biggest issue is that the costs go up. Costs go up everywhere, but with health, it's gone up out of proportion to everything else. So it's like this big balloon, and it's at risk of popping in comparison to other things.
The biggest thing, really, is that the cost of treating so many of these diseased processes has just gotten very, very expensive. And the idea that, when you have an uninsured segment of the population, as well, getting back to this access problem, they don't -- they don't utilize the healthcare system until they're very sick. And it costs more money to take care of people who are sicker. So, you know, therein lies part of the problem.
You also have a lot of technology that some say is being over- utilized. Getting MRI scans when a CAT scan or an X-ray would do.
So a lot of these things, again, changing the incentives to lowering costs and keeping people out of the hospital may -- may control some of these costs.
COOPER: I mean, the medical industry today kind of spinning this as, well, look, we're going to cut these $2 trillion over the next ten years or so, and we're doing this for the good of the country. I mean, clearly they're afraid of greater regulation being done by Congress. They're trying to kind of, basically, spin the American public and kind of put out a good face.
What incentive do they actually have to follow through on their commitments? Because this is all voluntary.
GUPTA: You're absolutely right. So it is sort of a self-imposed sort of commitment to this. In terms of an incentive, as well. Look, if the entire system starts to fail -- and the president talked about this today -- if Medicare or Medicaid, as we know it, starts to become more insolvent or becomes insolvent, then the insurance companies don't get paid, frankly, and as a result the hospitals don't get paid, and everyone doesn't get paid.
So there's a lot of incentives to keep the system in part the way it is, but to offer better access and to lower costs. So it is sort of self-imposed to some degree.
Also, what's interesting here is that, ultimately, a healthcare reform plan will probably be drafted by Congress, as opposed to by the White House, which is very different, for example, back in '93/'94.
COOPER: All right, Sanjay, appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Sanjay Gupta tonight.
Coming up, President Obama left them laughing this week at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, but some say comedienne Wanda Sykes went a little too far. We'll hear what the White House had to say about that, and we'll play what the president said and what Ms. Sykes said.
First, Randi Kaye has a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Randi.
KAYE: Hi, there, Anderson.
Investigators say a power tool caused the devastating wildfire in Santa Barbara, California. It was being used to clear brush, the very thing authorities have asked residents to do as a fire safety measure. The wildfires scorched 13 square miles in dozens of homes.
The Iranian-American journalist convicted of spying by Iran has been freed. An appeals court released Roxana Saberi today after cutting her sentence from eight years to two years suspended. Now free to leave the country, Saberi was arrested in January but insisted she was innocent.
Stocks fells today as investors backed off a nearly nine-week rally. The Dow dropped 156 points. The NASDAQ lost 8 points, and the S&P 500 fell 20.
The Catholic priest photographed cuddling with a woman on a Florida beach has admitted to a two-year affair. Father Alberto Cutie told the CBS "Early Show" that he's in love with the woman and is considering leaving the church to marry her. The priest was removed from duties at his Miami Beach church last week.
And Miss USA pageant owner Donald Trump will decide tomorrow whether California titleholder Carrie Prejean can keep her crown. The 21-year-old is under fire for recently-revealed topless photos and making unauthorized public appearances for groups opposed to same-sex marriage.
She spoke with Focus on the Family's Dr. James Dobson today about her comments on same-sex marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JAMES DOBSON, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: Why did you give the answer you did with regard to the affirmation of marriage?
CARRIE PREJEAN, MISS CALIFORNIA/MISS USA RUNNER-UP: Honestly, I felt as though Satan was -- and I don't want to say that this person represented Satan -- but I felt as though Satan was trying to tempt me in -- in asking me this question. And then God was in my head and in my heart saying, "Carrie, do not compromise this," you know. "You need to stand up for me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Carrie Prejean talking to James Dobson. Randi, thanks.
Coming up next, meet the commander in chief. President Obama's stand-up at the correspondents' dinner. He got the laughs, but a well-known comic who shared the stage with him is taking a little heat today after making a joke about Rush Limbaugh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIAN: He's not saying anything different than what Osama bin Laden is saying. You know, you might want to look into this. I think maybe Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker, but he was just so strung out on OxyContin he missed his flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll let you decide if a line was crossed, ahead.
Then, a strange encounter in upstate New York. Did you see this? The animal few people have heard of on the loose and keeping cops busy. We'll reveal exactly what that thing is. Not a kangaroo. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: President Obama trading policy speeches for punch lines over the weekend at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, along with some jokes and controversy courtesy of comedienne Wanda Sykes. She was the featured entertainer. Some say she went too far with a rant on Rush Limbaugh. We'll let you be the judge. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYKES: Rush Limbaugh said he hopes this administration fails. So you're saying, "I hope America fails." You're like, "I don't care about people losing their homes or jobs or our soldiers in Iraq." He just wants the country to fail. To me that's treason. He's not saying anything differently than what Osama bin Laden is saying.
You know, you might want to look into this, sir, because I think maybe Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker, but he was just so strung out on OxyContin he missed his flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mixed review from the crowd. Today the White House press secretary, Robert Gibbs, weighed in, saying that 9/11 is a topic better left for serious reflection, not comedy.
Overall the night was a light-hearted affair, I'm told, with the president keeping people laughing. Here's some highlights from the dinner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OBAMA: Sasha and Malia aren't here tonight, because they're grounded. You can't just take Air Force One on a joyride to Manhattan. I don't care whose kids you are. We've been setting some ground rules here.
David Axelrod is here. Now David and I have been together for a long time. I can still remember -- I got to sort of -- I tear up a little bit when I think back to that day that I called Ax so many years ago and said, "You and I can do wonderful things together."
And he said to me the same thing that partners all across Americas are saying to one another right now: "Let's go to Iowa and make it official."
Michael Steele is in the house tonight. Or as he would say, "In the heazy." What's up? Where is Michael?
Michael, for the last time, the Republican Party does not qualify for a bailout. Rush Limbaugh does not count as a troubled asset. I'm sorry.
Dick Cheney was supposed to be here, but he is very busy working on his memoirs, tentatively titled "How to Shoot Friends and Interrogate People."
Which brings me to another thing that's changed in this new warmer, fuzzier White House. And that's my relationship with Hillary. You know, we had been rivals during the campaign, but these days we could not be closer. In fact, the second she got back from Mexico, she pulled me into a hug and gave me a big kiss, told me I'd better get down there myself.
SYKES: People love you. You know, and even the media. You know, you guys have been very favorable towards the president. You know, it's funny to me that they never caught smoking, but they somehow always catch you with your shirt off. I know you're into this transparency thing, but I don't need to see your nipples.
You and Joe Biden out getting a hamburger. The two of you can't hang out together. Whose idea was that, Nancy Pelosi's? You know, she was a Hillary supporter. What's wrong with you?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Some of what happened then. Go to AC360.com to watch President Obama's entire speech from the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
Our serious (ph) "Shot" is next, running loose in New York, what is it? We're told it's not a kangaroo. Some sort of mutant bunny, perhaps? An extra from the "X-Men: Wolverine"? We're going to reveal the identity of this secret animal ahead.
And at the top of the hour, on the attack: Dick Cheney, the former vice president, slamming President Obama and former secretary of state, Colin Powell. Cheney's fighting words and what it means for the GOP when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Randi, tonight's "Shot," on the loose in upstate New York. Check this out. Hopping in farm and then -- hopping in farm? Hopping on a farm and then disappearing from sight. Not that. That's not the mysterious critter.
That's the mysterious critter. What exactly is it? As a "Jeopardy!" champ -- champion, I didn't even know it. It's a wallaroo.
KAYE: A wallaroo.
COOPER: A marsupial mix between a kangaroo and a wallaby. Never even heard of it. I should probably say all of this with an Australian accent. The wallaroo can reach heights of 55 inches, enjoys rock climbing and grass and shrubs.
Wallaroos also have a life span of about 20 years, I'm told. Yes.
KAYE: He looks just like a kangaroo.
COOPER: Yes. Apparently, this wallaroo has the name Bandit, was some guy's pet until it escaped a couple weeks ago. Sightings of Bandit have been flooding local police departments. People say they've never seen anything like it, and apparently Bandit is still on the loose. If you see it, I don't know what you should do.
(SOUND EFFECT: LION ROAR)
KAYE: Whoa. I think that was the end of bandit. (SOUND EFFECT: LION ROAR)
COOPER: I think so. All right. You can see the most recent "Shots" and tonight's "Beat 360," which sadly, we didn't have time to get time to get on the program, because I've been chattering on too long. All of that is visible on our Web site at AC360.com.
Coming up at the top of the hour, former vice president attacking the current president, well, like no one -- no vice president's attacked the sitting president before. He says the Obama administration is endangering America and it's even making some Republicans nervous. We'll be right back.
