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Campbell Brown
Obama Administration Reversal on Detainee Photos; Authorities Investigate Buffalo Plane Crash
Aired May 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Folks, we're following breaking news about on tornadoes in Missouri.
There's also a major change of course from the Obama tonight. Liberal groups are outraged. And that's just one of the hot topics we will dive into with our panel, CNN correspondent Erica Hill, chief business correspondent Ali Velshi, national political correspondent Jessica Yellin, and Lisa Bloom, "In Session" anchor and CNN legal analyst.
We begin tonight with President Obama's stunning reversal or some say flip-flop. He's now trying to stop you from seeing images of terror detainees allegedly being abused. This comes just as Congress hears the inside story of what many call torture.
Jessica is here to start us off.
Jessica, break it down for us.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Roland, there were some rear fireworks today on Capitol Hill during a hearing on tactics that some consider torture.
Now, a former FBI agent named Ali Soufan gave dramatic testimony while hidden behind a screen because of threats against his life. He has personally interrogated al Qaeda suspects. Now, Soufan told a Senate committee that techniques like water-boarding simply do not work.
He called them ineffective, slow, even harmful to our goals and his case in point the interrogation of al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI INTERROGATOR: Water-boarding itself had to be used 83 times, an indication that Abu Zubaydah had already called his interrogators' bluff. In contrast, when we interrogated him using intelligent interrogation methods, within the first hour, we gained important actionable intelligence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Republicans at the hearing slammed his testimony as a political stunt.
And there was breaking news from the White House as well when the president announced he has asked his lawyers to try to block the release of photos that show American military abusing detainees at about half-a-dozen prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, two courts had already ordered the Pentagon to release the photos. And on May 28, the administration was going to comply, until the president's change of heart.
He explained it this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals.
In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to further inflame anti-American opinion and to put our troops in greater danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Some of the president's supporters are now accusing him of breaking his promise of transparency. They say Americans have a right to see the photos.
And finally if you think those photos might trigger riots in the world, Roland, it's worth pointing out that those photos were to be released just about six days before President Obama travels to Egypt to deliver that major speech about U.S. relations with the Muslim world.
MARTIN: Got a feeling that had something to do with the timing here, so just a little thought there.
Folks, with us right now is Anthony Romero, executive -- executive -- executive director, I'm sorry, of the ACLU, which sued to have the photos released, and in Washington, Marc Thiessen. He's a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, a public policy research center at Stanford University. He also was a speechwriter for George W. Bush and served under former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Now, Anthony, are you betrayed by the president?
Absolutely.
ANTHONY ROMERO, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: And I don't believe that the president really fully believes himself what he said today. If these photos are not sensational or incendiary, then why hold them back?
MARTIN: So...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Why is he doing this?
ROMERO: Why? I think, number one is he's afraid of the partisan squabble that's going to come out when the photos are released and they are incendiary. He will be pushed into a corner to prosecute crimes that did happen. Those photos are going to show torture on Bush's watch.
Obama wants to duck the ball on that one. He wants to turn forward and not look back. And these photos are going to make -- pull him back by his coattails and require him to prosecute crimes.
YELLIN: But they claim some of these people have already been prosecuted. Is that untrue?
ROMERO: And that's not true. That's the second piece about his segment.
The highest-ranking person who has been prosecuted for torture and abusive techniques a lieutenant colonel, who was acquitted. Don't give me that. We studied these. This is a case we filed six years ago before the photos came out, out of Abu Ghraib. We have been fighting mightily with the Bush administration to get transparency, accountability, prosecutions.
We voted for change. This is more of the same. This is more of the same.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: coming out of Washington.
Marc, it seems like you want to jump in there.
MARC THIESSEN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Sure. Absolutely.
Well, this is -- he's right, that these are sensational and incendiary. And that's exactly why the president changed his mind. He listened to his military commanders and he didn't release the photos.
If these photos had been released, within two seconds flat, they would have been up on jihadi Web sites, and al Qaeda would be using them to incite violence...
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: Excuse me. Let me finish.
ROMERO: OK.
THIESSEN: And incite violence against the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: Excuse me. Can I get a word in, please?
MARTIN: Marc, go right ahead. Go right ahead. ROMERO: I'm sorry.
THIESSEN: And, so, what these photos are is proof that the system of military justice works. Every one of these photos was taken from an investigation of somebody who had committed an abuse and was brought before the system of military justice.
(CROSSTALK)
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Anthony, because this isn't just a policy question. This is a legal question.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Lisa, go ahead.
BLOOM: This is a legal question that's already been ruled upon by two courts, which rejected these national security questions.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... and said the photos have to be released. So, is this likely to end up in the U.S. Supreme Court?
ROMERO: Absolutely. You bet you.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Do you feel confident in the U.S. Supreme Court?
ROMERO: Absolutely. Absolutely. Look, you have a bloc of liberals, you have a bloc of conservatives. You have some conservatives that believe in the First Amendment and freedom of speech. I'm willing to take my role with those dice.
MARTIN: Mark, are you ready to go to the Supreme Court with this?
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: No, but let me interject this one before we go.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: The photos are not incendiary. What's incendiary is the commission of torture and abuse that happened under Bush's watch.
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: Can I say something, please? Is this the ACLU hour?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Marc, go ahead. Marc, go ahead. Go ahead.
THIESSEN: Listen, the fact is, there are 400 individuals who have been disciplined and prosecuted as a result of abuses. The military -- the system of military justice works.
And there was no systematic abuse. You're absolutely wrong, Mr. Romero. And you know why? I can prove it to you. Because, in 2004, there was a bipartisan commission, led by Secretary Schlesinger, which investigated this very question and found that there was no systematic abuse and that, of the 50,000 people up to that point that had been gathered up on the war on terror and put in prison, less than one- tenth of 1 percent had any viable claim of abuse.
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: And those are people who were being investigated and who the photos were of. And they were going to -- and these photos released was going to set up al Qaeda to launch attacks on the United States and kill American troops. And the president did the right thing by keeping -- by keeping them back.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marc, I want to ask you a question. This is Erica Hill in New York.
THIESSEN: Sure.
HILL: Because there's a lot of discrepancy as for these photos actually show. But the president did say today they are not particularly sensational. And there's a Pentagon official who said to "The New York Times" they are humiliating, but not as provocative as Abu Ghraib.
We all know what happened and what the reaction was to Abu Ghraib. If these pictures are not as provocative, could they really be so bad to release?
THIESSEN: Well, clearly, the president thought so. He has seen the photos and he made a judgment that they were. The judgment of our military commanders was that -- that they would be.
But, listen, here's the problem. What's happening is, there are two organizations that want these photos released, al Qaeda and the ACLU. And it's for -- the reason is, they want to spread a lie that there is a systematic torture and abuse by the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right, Marc...
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: Factually, factually incorrect.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: You cannot compare the American Civil Liberties Union with the al Qaeda, sir, with all due respect.
THIESSEN: No.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: We are Americans.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: We believe in transparency and accountability of government. We have labored mightily to make sure that the truth is known. When crimes are committed, crimes should be prosecuted.
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: And they are.
ROMERO: And, frankly...
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: There would be no photos if the crimes were not being prosecuted. There would be no photos.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMERO: I don't want to see these photos.
If Attorney General Holder exercises the independence of his office and appoints a special prosecutor who will look at these photos and prosecute the crimes, I'm willing to sit back and let him do his job.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, Marc, we're absolutely out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
THIESSEN: There would be no photos if there wasn't a system of military justice.
MARTIN: Marc Thiessen, we're out of time. Marc, thank you very much.
Anthony Romero, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you very much.
ROMERO: My pleasure. Thank you very much.
MARTIN: Folks, we will be going to the CNN Severe Weather Center in a few minutes for the latest on tonight's tornado damage in Missouri. We're learning new troubling details, folks.
Also, another story -- on day two of the hearings into that deadly plane crash near Buffalo, the family of one victim is with us tonight, and they're demanding more answers.
Also tonight, wasn't President Obama going to do away with don't ask/don't tell? But the policy dealing with gays in the military is still the law of the land. Erica from Connecticut -- not our Erica -- says...
HILL: But I am from Connecticut.
MARTIN: Yes, you are.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: Get on with it already, she says.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ERICA, CONNECTICUT: It's time that we show respect to our gay and lesbian sisters and brothers that are risking their lives for this country.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MARTIN: Of course there's still passionate debate. Should President Obama repeal don't ask/don't tell.
Give us a call, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877-662-8550. Or drop me an e-mail, Roland@CNN.com. Also hit me on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, in the skies above us right now, some 5,000 planes are airborne. Close to two million people fly in this country every day.
And you expect the very best and brightest pilots in the business to be at controllers for every flight, focused, alert and trained to handle a crisis. But the more we learn about February's crash near Buffalo, the more we suspect the pilots of Flight 3407 shouldn't have been in the cockpit at all that day.
This week, families of the victims are in Washington seeking answers. And those answers are far from comforting.
Joining us right now is Kathy Johnston, who lost her husband, Kevin, in the crash, also her brother-in-law, Marty Agius.
Now, first of all, we certainly want to express our condolences for both of you for the loss of -- for your losses.
Kathy, let me ask you. It must be hard to you to be at these hearings and listening to this testimony. Why was it so important for you to be there personally?
KATHY JOHNSTON, HUSBAND KILLED ON FLIGHT 3407: It was important for me to make a point. This has been tragedy for all of us.
But this probably could have and should have been prevented. The NTSB makes recommendations, and it takes years and years for the FAA to respond to them. The icing problem has been an ongoing issue that has not been responded And To. That's why I came here, to make my voice known.
HILL: Kathy, I know your husband of nearly 29 years -- you have three girls at home -- he traveled, as I understand it, fairly often for work. You know, living in Buffalo, how dicey some of these flights can be, especially in the winter.
But were you ever concerned for your husband's safety, or for your own safety, in taking any of these flights into your local airport?
JOHNSTON: No, I really wasn't. I just -- he traveled quite a bit. And I was used to it. And I never thought that way. I trusted -- I had a trust in the airline industry. And that really has changed now. It's unbelievable, what we're finding out in the hearings right now. And it's very disturbing to myself and all the families.
BLOOM: Marty, this had to be devastating to you, the recent revelations about the possibility this could have been preventable. What reforms would you like to see going forward?
MARTY AGIUS, BROTHER-IN-LAW KILLED ON FLIGHT 3407: Well, first of all, the NTSB is our friend.
And they are out there to protect all Americans in our travels and daily, whether it's planes, trains or automobiles. And they have made a lot of recommendations to the FAA over the years. And the problem is, a lot of the recommendations have fallen into a black hole.
It's not only small commuter airlines. It's big airlines as well, the TWA flight that crashed in the Long Island Sound 13 years ago. It's just this year that they are starting to make modifications to planes to change the way the fuel tanks are configured.
So, up until this point, we have all been flying on planes that potentially could blow up. So, the NTSB makes recommendations. We have got to see changes instituted quickly from the FAA, and a lot of them are because of financial reasons they don't do it.
YELLIN: Kathy, based on what you heard today, how optimistic -- how optimistic are you that they will make these changes? Do you feel like the FAA is open to what you think needs to happen?
JOHNSTON: Not necessarily yet.
I think we just have to keep making ourselves as a family known. I think sometimes it takes a year for the reports to -- the final reports to come out, and that sometimes I think the FAA hopes that everyone will forget about it, and that -- that's it.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So, are -- your concerned, then, that this thing is broader than just the wrong pilots or poorly trained pilots being in the wrong flight? You're actually concerned that this thing could be broader and there could be pilots flying all over America from major airlines that we book tickets on that might not be qualified to handle emergencies whenever they occur? AGIUS: Well, Kathy?
JOHNSTON: Oh, absolutely. That's -- I'm concerned not just for Colgan, for every airplane out there. It's just -- like I said, it's amazing what we're learning and what has been allowed to go on. The FAA needs to update the regulations.
AGIUS: Yes.
MARTIN: All right. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very much, again, an amazing testimony. And it certainly -- it must be tough, Kathy and Marty, but thank you very much.
JOHNSTON: You're welcome.
MARTIN: Well, folks, also at today's hearing is Mary Schiavo. She's a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation. And she joins us right now from the nation's capital.
Mary, look, you have been sitting at these hearings, and so what have you been thinking as you listen to this testimony and listening to what these pilots were talking about in the cockpit?
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER TRANSPORTATION INSPECTOR GENERAL: Well, the most surprising thing and the really outrageous thing is that there's now a huge difference between the training and experience of pilots in the regional carriers -- we used to call them commuters -- and the national major carriers.
Even the airline itself admitted that the pilots that they are now getting in the regional carriers have -- they have far less experience, they have far less training before they come to them, and they admitted that some of the key stall recovery procedures that might have saved this aircraft in the icing were taught only in classroom training. They didn't actually get to try it out in the simulator or on this plane.
And that just doesn't occur in -- when you get to experience and training of those pilots in the majors, like Captain Sullenberger.
YELLIN: It seems sort of baffling that, given the recession and how many people are out of jobs, that there would be pilots operating any of these planes, even regional planes, who are not up to par. Can't they even find -- one of us was saying -- fighter jet pilots who are out of work?
SCHIAVO: That's right.
YELLIN: So why are these guys allowed -- guys and gals allowed behind -- in the cockpit?
SCHIAVO: Well, because of the economic pressure, salaries are so low for these regional carrier pilots. For example, the first officer was making $16,000 a year and was expected to live in Newark. As a result, she didn't. She commuted all night to get to work. The salaries are so low that, as soon as people can get out of the regionals, they move up to the majors.
BLOOM: Mary, following up on that issue of fatigue, who is ultimately responsible? Because the airline says it's up to pilots to make sure they get a good night's rest. We can't check up on them. We have also heard some finger-pointing at the FAA. Whose responsibility is this stuff ultimately?
AGIUS: First and foremost, it's the airline's responsibility.
And this is a huge problem in the regionals, because this is a way of life. It came out at the hearing of Colgan's pilots -- and they are not unlike the other regionals carriers -- at least a third of them commute more than 400 miles to work.
And in the last decade, there were eight commuter or regional plane crashes. In seven of those eight crashes, the NTSB blamed the pilots, pilot error and pilot training. So, it's endemic in the regional carrier world. And that means there are thousands of pilots in this position, not just the two that were in the Buffalo crash.
HILL: Looking more specifically at the grieving families, we just spoke with Kathy Johnston and Marty Agius, who lost Kathy's husband, Marty's brother-in-law. Marty said, the NTSB is our friend here. These recommendations have fallen into a black hole.
Give me specifics. How does that get fixed, so that we don't have to talk to families who have just sat through hearings about why their loved ones die? How do you get those recommendations in place?
SCHIAVO: They must be put in place by the FAA.
In fact, for an organization called the National Air Disaster Alliance, I even helped them bring a pro bono suit to force the FAA to act. And some of these recommendations have been pending for 10 years. And today, repeatedly, dozens of times, the airline said, well, we don't do it because it's not required. And they said, well, you could do more. And they said, yes, but the FAA doesn't require it, so we don't do it.
And then when the things that they did do, they say, well, why did you do it? And they said, because the FAA required it.
The key here is make it mandatory, or it won't happen. Even things, for example, like requiring this hands-on training in the aircraft, requiring the pilots to have the necessary rest, the airline today said they didn't even check.
MARTIN: All right.
Well, Mary, we certainly hope some good comes out of this. Mary Schiavo, we certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
Folks, next, the breaking news about a tornado that caused damage and injuries in Missouri. Meteorologist Chad Myers is standing at the CNN Severe Weather Center. And, of course, as we speak, President Obama is on his way to be guest of honor tonight at Arizona State University. That's just one of the schools where controversy isn't staying off-campus when the commander in chief shows up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Folks, breaking news coming in, injuries and serious damage reported a tornado that touched down in Missouri.
Let's get right to meteorologist Chad Myers in the CNN Severe Weather Center.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Roland, it's Kirksville right there.
This storm, about an hour ago, rolled right through. There you see the radar just right around my circle there. This storm made a bunch of damage. From iMap, our guys here, you can even see streets signs down on these guys here. They have been it. And they have even had a little bit of damage to the vehicle. We will talk to some of these guys in just a little bit.
Our KWTV, our affiliate there, is seeing some rotation near Tonkawa in Oklahoma. And also, KOCO, they are on it. I see a lowering right through here. Lowering means -- a good lightning strike, too -- some type of rotation. We are going to have tornadoes today possibly from Iowa, through Missouri, into Kansas, Oklahoma, and maybe even to Texas, but I doubt it, doubt it will go that far south.
We will keep you up to date. We have another live hit for you coming up in a little bit -- Roland.
MARTIN: Chad Myers, thanks a bunch.
Folks, tonight we want to know what you think about a controversial topic, the military's don't ask/don't tell policy for gay service members. President Obama has said he's not in favor of it. So, should he overturn the policy right away?
Listen to what TopFlight says on Twitter -- quote -- "I think it has worked well so far. Why should it stop now? It is no one's business what your sexual orientation is."
Well, what do you think? Should President Obama repeal don't ask/don't tell? Call us right now, 1-877-NO-BULL-0. That's 1-877- 662-8550. Also, e-mail me, Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Lisa likes Aaliyah.
BLOOM: I do like that.
MARTIN: Folks, it's been almost three months since President Obama signed off on the $787 billion stimulus package that is supposed to get our economy up and running again. But only about 6 percent of the money has been paid out so far.
Our chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi, is at the wall right -- well, he's going to the wall.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: He's not there right now. He's not there yet.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: You're all so rushed with everything.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: He says only 6 percent of the money has been spent. It's $787 billion. Give it some time. Honestly, what is...
MARTIN: About $45 billion.
VELSHI: I'm getting to the wall.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hey, all right, there.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: It takes just a few minutes to spend $787 billion. That was the size of the stimulus bill.
Let's see what's going on. The amount paid out to date so far, just $45.6 billion, or, as Roland says, 6 percent. The amount allocated is a little more than that. About $59.5 billion has an envelope and a check written out, ready to go, but not spent yet. So, that leaves most of it unspent.
Let me tell you, it's gone to a lot of different things. We're just pulling out the biggest things it's gone to. And take a look at that. Most of the stuff that it's gone to immediately has been stuff that will get into the hands of Americans and have them spend money. It serves two purposes. It gets money into the economy and it gets money into the hands of people who need it most.
So, $14.8 billion has gone to Medicaid grants. That of course is money people desperately need to spend on medication or health care -- $12 billion has gone to unemployment insurance, to the states that pay that unemployment insurance out. That obviously results in people having to pay their immediate bills.
And that's why -- we can move a little faster with this. Roland is in a bit in a hurry.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Yes, spend the money.
VELSHI: I mean, I have got to at least talk about this money as fast as it's been spent.
Food stamps, $819 million, another major area which gets spent immediately. People don't tend to save that money up. Student financial aid, something that's been a priority of this administration, $552 million. And rental assistance to those in need, $235 million.
I should tell you, at that point, there are many other things they have spent this money on. But they're smaller than the $235 million. So, there's a lot of money going out. The administration had said that it was going to take up to 18 months to get two-thirds of this money spent.
And there are many people who say it's good that it's actually being spent in a way that they can keep some control over where it's going.
Now, if you want to know more about what's going on in this economy and how it's helping, tune in tomorrow. We have a special "Money Summit." We do those from time to time. But we're doing a special one tomorrow called "Money & Main Street." Anderson Cooper and I will be here. We will have our crews across the country talking to real people about their problems.
And then we have got a blue-ribbon panel right here and we will be discussing some of the issues that need to be solved right now.
You can join us, by the way, on Facebook. We will be chatting with our viewers while this is going on. So, get yourself a Facebook account until then.
Was that fast enough for you?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: You have calmed down now?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right, Jessica, here. Here, wipe his head off. He's a little hot over there.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: There you go.
All right, of course, here's our question tonight: Should President Obama repeal the military's don't ask/don't tell policy for gay soldiers? We want to know what you think. Give us a call, 1-877- 662-8550.
But, first, Erica with the briefing.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Erica from Connecticut.
HILL: Whoa, boy.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Thank you. I might.
The mother of one of the soldiers shot to death at a Baghdad stress clinic speaking out today and saying she has some sympathy for the man who is accused of killing her son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWNA MACHLINSKI, MOTHER OF KILLED U.S. SOLDIER: As much as I have a lot of anger towards him, I also have some sympathy, because I know he must have been going through a lot as well. That doesn't excuse the fact that he murdered my son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Sergeant John Russell is facing five counts of murder in Monday's rampage.
Craigslist now dropping its so-called erotic services category just weeks after a Boston medical student was charged with killing a masseuse he found on the site. Craigslist will create a new adult services category. Every posting there will be checked by employees.
Law enforcement officials had called that site the largest source of prostitution in America.
At least 10 people drowned when a boat carrying migrants from Haiti and the Bahamas sank off the Florida coast today. The Coast Guard spokesman says 26 people from the boat were rescued. Searchers, though, don't know how many more people they are actually still trying to find.
Astronauts on board the shuttle Atlantis used a robotic arm to grab hold of Hubble space telescope today. They of course are on a mission to repair Hubble. It begins with a space walk which is planned for tomorrow.
And an American icon under fire tonight -- Cheerios, the best friend of moms everywhere, in hot water with the FDA for claiming it can lower cholesterol and treat heart disease. Now, the feds say only FDA-approved can make such claims.
And there you have it, a little issue in cereal land.
MARTIN: All right. Little kids are like, yes, Cheerios. (LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right, Erica, thanks a bunch.
Folks, tonight, we're also following breaking news about heavy damage from a tornado in Missouri. We will go back to meteorologist Chad Myers in just two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Updating you on tonight's breaking news, the tornado in Missouri, folks. Let's get back to Chad Myers in the CNN Severe Weather Center.
MYERS: I don't know if you ever watch the Discovery Channel but I watch it all the time. And as this cell rolled through Kirksville, Missouri, there was a crew on the ground here.
Reed Timmer, part of that Discovery Channel crew, out there trying to chase tornadoes. Tornado chasers there, he is right there. We have him on the phone.
Reed, I guess you were right in the middle of it, aye?
REED TIMMER, TORNADOVIDEOS.NET (via telephone): Yes. Right now, we're just south of a significant damage path actually. We're in the town of Edina, Missouri. Just to our north, there's a substantial damage path from the same tornado that we're inside further west near Kirksville.
MYERS: You know, this whole thing, it was kind of north of Kirksville, Missouri proper, but we're getting significant damage from the north part of the city. What did you see?
TIMMER: Well, we tracked that tornado. We went through Kirksville. We waited on the north side, and we saw it approaching from the west. It was a massive wedge tornado. I'd say a quarter mile wide. And our vehicle has armor on the outside, so we're capable of getting inside the circulation.
We don't usually want to get in the strong tornado. That's not our goal. But on this one, it was approaching.
We have a radar in the back of our vehicle, too, that scans the wind. And the tornado hit us and there was a small structure, it's the last (ph) commercial structure. It was abandoned and now the thing was totally destroyed.
There are sheet metals going around in circles, around the vehicle (ph). And our initial (INAUDIBLE) that we still have to do involves process and confirm the data, but our initial wind estimates from the radar, from 105 to 135-mile-per-hour range.
MYERS: Wow. Did you get damaged? Are your vehicles OK? You're OK? TIMMER: Oh, yes, our vehicle is fine. We've got bulletproof armor on it. But off to the east, the tornado blew east. It destroyed several structures. It's an extremely bad situation on the north side of Kirksville.
There's (INAUDIBLE) struck residential structure that were hit and emergency vehicles were on the scene immediately. And it was an extremely strong tornado and a long track as well.
MYERS: Yes. We think, maybe, Reed, that it might be still on the ground here in Macon County. This is Missouri and then farther off to the east, we'll keep watching it.
Reed, thank you so much for your help. Stay safe out there.
I can't tell -- I just can't tell you, Roland, how important this is. A NOAA weather radio and a pick-up truck does not make you a storm chaser. These guys know what they're doing.
Please let them do it. Let them get the video and watch the Discovery Channel, or watch us and we'll put it on as much as we can. We'll get it -- we'll get it any time we can for you.
Sometimes we have to beg, borrow and steal, but we'll get it on the air for you when we can.
Roland, we'll keep watching.
MARTIN: You've got a bulletproof ride. Yes, absolutely.
MYERS: He's got armor around his car.
MARTIN: All right, Chad, we appreciate it. Thanks so much.
MYERS: You bet.
MARTIN: Chad is giving John (ph) a run for his money with that magic wall.
Folks, new development tonight in President Obama's search for a new Supreme Court justice to succeed the retiring David Souter. CNN has learned from two sources that the field has narrowed to about half a dozen names, including Federal Appeals Court Judges Sonia Sotomayor and Diane Wood, Solicitor General Elena Kagan, and California Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno.
Joining us right now, our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He's the author of "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court."
All right, because you missed the secret, you're Mr. Inside.
(LAUGHTER)
Tell us about the folks the president is considering for the Supreme Court? TOOBIN: Well, Sonia Sotomayor, the first name listed, has sort of been the front-runner all along. She's on the Federal Appeals Court here in New York. She's a summa cum laude graduate of Princeton University, former federal, a former state prosecutor, appointed to the district court by President George Herbert Walker Bush, promoted to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals by President Clinton. A moderate liberal, would be the first Hispanic on the court. Certainly someone a lot of people have been looking at as a candidate for a long time.
Diane Wood, also on the Court of Appeals, except in Chicago. A former colleague of Barack Obama's on the faculty of the University of Chicago.
Elena Kagan, the former Dean of Harvard Law School, recently named solicitor general of the United States. She's the youngest candidate. She's only 48 years old, I believe.
And the last name is a new one for many folks, Justice Carlos Moreno, who's on the California Supreme Court. He's a state court judge, but he used to be on the federal district court in California. So he's got a mix of experiences. He's 60 years old which is a little old for --
MARTIN: A non-Ivy League people? I'm just saying. I'm sorry, go right ahead.
YELLIN: Jeff, last time there was an opening on the Supreme Court, we'd hear signs of people going in to secretly meet with the president. They'd be spotted. One even leaked that he had a meeting with the president. They talked about their exercise routines.
We heard nothing like this so far. So do you have any sense of the timing?
TOOBIN: Well, yes, I have sense of the timing but I really couldn't say who is the front-runner (ph).
YELLIN: Right.
TOOBIN: I think what they want to do is they want to announce the nominee right after Memorial Day, because the Senate is out of session that week. So there will be no Republicans around to be saying bad things. It's going to be -- they'll have a clean shot and they could still get the hearings under way in July which would give them plenty of time to have the new nominee in place by the first Monday in October.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR OF TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": Jeffrey, we've heard about empathy, one of the factors that President Obama is looking for in a nominee.
TOOBIN: Right.
BLOOM: I didn't take empathy 101 in law school. I don't know if you did. (LAUGHTER)
How exactly does the president go about looking for someone who can connect with real people?
TOOBIN: Well, I think one of the reasons the president might not name any of those four people is he may be looking for a non-judge. He has said that he wants someone who might -- who has run for elected office, perhaps. Someone like Janet Napolitano, secretary of Homeland Security, former governor of Arizona. Someone like Jennifer Granholm, the governor of Michigan.
People who have real-world connections, who have answered to voters, a lot of the great justices of the court were not -- were not judges first. Warren, Hugo Black --
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was going to say that connection is actually something that we've heard. It's important. There's also something that Justice Ginsburg brought up in her article on "USA Today."
She was talking about the fact that there's all this talk will it be a woman, will it be a minority. She said in some of the cases that were before the court, this session, it was interesting, and that she was the only woman. Specifically the case about the 13-year-old girl, she thought a lot of her colleagues don't get what it's like to be a 13-year-old girl when she's stripped search.
TOOBIN: It's a very un-diverse court and not just because there's seven white males on the court. Their backgrounds are very similar. There are six graduates of Harvard Law School. Now, that's not a bad thing. That's not a bad choice.
I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
But it's -- the opportunity to diversify the court by race, by gender, by national origin, by profession, by background is something that I think Obama is going to think seriously about.
MARTIN: All right. We'll see what happens. After Memorial Day, we'll be checking. Place your bets.
Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.
Folks, it seems like former Vice President Dick Cheney will tell you what he thinks about President Obama any chance he gets.
Well, two can play that game only now with former President Bill Clinton. Hear what he's saying about Cheney in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: President Barack Obama living the good life, headed to Senator John McCain's neck of the woods. So what's he doing there? Jessica Yellin with the "PDB."
YELLIN: That's right. The president has his eye on Arizona, and he is just about to land there to give tonight's commencement address at Arizona State University.
We have a live picture of the podium there and CNN will be carrying the president's speech live when it happens later tonight. He will be speaking to roughly 9,000 graduating students and nearly 70,000 spectators. It's the first of several commencement addresses the president plans to deliver this year, and it has been marred by a bit of a controversy.
Remember that decision not to give the president an honorary degree? Well, Arizona State University has stuck by that. But they are going to name a scholarship after the president.
Still more controversy around the president's speech at Notre Dame University. He is speaking there on Sunday and some at the Catholic school, they protested the invitation because of the president's views on abortion and stem cell research.
And not to be outdone, earlier today, Secretary Clinton, Secretary of State Clinton delivered the commencement address to New York University at guess where? New York stadium's Yankee Stadium. New York State's Yankee Stadium is the way they say that.
I don't know. I'm not a sports person. I know people love that stadium.
MARTIN: It's Yankee Stadium.
YELLIN: All right. Yankee Stadium. All right.
And here's my favorite story of the day. It's a boy. California Representative Linda Sanchez has joined a very small and elite club. She gave birth this morning, becoming only the eighth member of Congress ever to have a baby during her term.
Joaquin Sanchez Sullivan is the first child for the Democrat. Sanchez is married to Connecticut consultant Jim Sullivan. And Sullivan released a statement today saying, "Joaquin's arrival is a long awaited welcome addition in our lives and we are richer because of it." We're told mother and baby are doing well.
And finally, yes, former President Clinton had to get in on the act. He made a playful jab at former Vice President Dick Cheney.
Clinton was campaigning in Virginia for his friend and gubernatorial candidate, Terry McAuliffe, and while shaking hands on the rope line, you know what, Clinton was asked about former Vice President Cheney. He made a bit of a dig with that classic Clinton smile. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, 42ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wish him well. It's over. I wish him well. It's over. But I do hope he gets some more target practice before he goes out again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: More target practice. Anyone remember what the former vice president was trying to shoot when he actually shot his friend in the face?
Quail. Good call.
MARTIN: All right. Dan?
All right, folks. Time for the shot caller, big baller "LARRY KING LIVE," minutes away, a primetime exclusive.
Larry, what do you got?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Well, Roland, we got a biggy tonight. George and Cindy Anthony are going to be with us for the hour. They call this the last nine months of their life a living hell. What a Catch-22.
Their daughter Casey is in jail, charged with killing their granddaughter Caylee, and they've endured all kinds of criticism. They'll take calls and answer questions. The Anthonys, a prime time exclusive for the hour next, Roland, on "LARRY KING LIVE."
Roland, what would you do?
MARTIN: About what?
KING: If you have a situation. You have a child charged with killing your grandchild, what would you do with that?
MARTIN: I would pray.
KING: Punt.
MARTIN: Pray and punt and hire a good lawyer.
Larry, thanks so much.
Folks, President Obama is wrestling with another political hot potato. Gays in the military. Lamont from New York says sign them up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAMONT, FROM NEW YORK (via telephone): We need as many good soldiers on the field of battle as we can possibly get at this point. So it's time to put that antiquated notion of gay soldiers being inferior aside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Should President Obama repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"? We're taking your phone calls. 1-877-662-8550, or hit us on Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLOOM: What does this have to do with gays in the military?
MARTIN: Look, it's a song. We picked it.
HILL: Excellent.
MARTIN: All right, folks, a controversial question tonight we've been hearing from you all day on Twitter and Facebook. We want to know, should President Obama repeal the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy?
One man who's calling on the president to overturn it, Lieutenant Dan Choi, an Arabic-speaking West Point graduate. He faces discharge from the National Guard because he announced he's gay. Listen to what he told Anderson Cooper last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
1ST LT. DAN CHOI, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: I will continue speaking out. I will continue reminding all the soldiers if there's any -- I mean, if there's anyone that's listening right now, a gay soldier, I just wanted to tell them that you are honorable and you're not alone. There are so many of us that are serving, and it's an important time to be serving right now in a time of war.
And I can't promise anything myself about legislation or when. I mean, I'm not a politician. But I will promise you that I will not shut up and I will not be forced to be silent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: The president says he's against "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" but gay service members are still being dismissed. Should he put a stop to that?
Erica, Ali, Jessica and Lisa are back, along with CNN political contributor Hilary Rosen and retired Army Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis.
All right, Hilary, President Obama said on the campaign trail that if we were kicking out Arab-speaking linguists, it made no sense. Here's what he said on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, THEN-DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why would we not want able men and women, who are willing to sacrifice on our behalf, why would we tell them no? Why would we spend money kicking out Arab-speaking linguists that we need right now in order to apprehend terrorists because of some hang-ups that are outdated and outmoded and make no sense? We are going to overturn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN: All right, Hillary, that was on the campaign trail. He's now president. Is he ignoring what he said?
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: No, he's not ignoring it. I think -- you know, what I'm told is that there is a process under way that the president has made it clear to the Department of Defense and the Joint Chiefs that he is intending to keep this campaign promise, that just like 22 other countries that the United States serves with as allies in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States is going to honor its gay and lesbian service members by not throwing them out.
MARTIN: But, Hilary -- Hilary, that gay activist who is saying I'm sorry, he is being slow, he's moving too slow, that he could make some changes to keep these folks from being thrown out.
ROSEN: Well, first of all, right now it's a statute. It's not -- he doesn't have the power on his own. And what he's going to do, I think, is seek to have -- you know, the Defense Department help him come up with a working system that they can then take to Congress to have Congress overturn the policy.
BLOOM: Well, Hilary -- one of the things he could do right away is sign an executive order and say the military should stop making findings of homosexuality. And without those findings, the hearings really would come to a stop because those findings are legally required to get rid of the gay service member.
ROSEN: Look, you know, I think it's really unfortunate that Lieutenant Choi is sort of caught in the middle. The nice thing is that, you know, also in that interview with Anderson, he said as soon as this law is overturned, he's going to reenlist.
That's exactly what we want. But this is a process the president has to make sure that this system is done with the cooperation of the military. Otherwise, it will fail. And that would be worse for the long term.
YELLIN: Let me ask you, Robert, Lieutenant Choi also said that if this is overturned, he would immediately reenlist in the military. Now, isn't this exactly the sort of person that we want serving our country?
LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNNIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, we certainly want good people serving our country and keep in mind the enlistments and retention are very good today. That we're not sure, especially in a depressed economy.
But at the same time you go back to '93, the Congress insisted and the Pentagon provided overwhelming evidence that convince the Democratic Congress to pass a very strict ban. And even though Clinton who brought up this issue said, look, you know, he's going to sign that.
Now, it's unfortunate for some people but by and large, we're at a time of war, and we haven't lacked for qualified people. Yes, there are a couple of people out there that you think should be retained.
I will tell you, I went to West Point.
MARTIN: OK.
MAGINNIS: I went to Defense Language Institute. I know what it takes to be a linguist, but we really are not as short as some people would portray.
MARTIN: Robert, hold tight one second. Hilary as well. We're going to a break right now, folks.
Lots of responses to this question. Here's Janelle from Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANELLE, FROM FLORIDA (via telephone): On the issue of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," I would say it should be left as it is. We cannot make our convictions universal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Should the president repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"? Call us, 1-877-662-8550. Hit us on e-mail, Twitter and Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: Hey, folks, that's, of course, Air Force One. The door there wide open. President Obama, of course, he has landed in Arizona.
He's speaking at Arizona State University, giving the commencement address there at ASU Sun Devil Stadium. And some 63,000 folks are going to be in attendance. Not all graduates, Jessica, about just 9,000. So a lot of folks waiting to hear the president.
HILL: They are. And that's a live shot right there of Air Force One. The stairs rolled up there, so we'll be monitoring that shot for you to see, of course, when the president descends, gets into the old limo and makes his way over there.
MARTIN: The beast.
BLOOM: And you know who else -- you know who else is going to be there? Rock icon Alice Cooper.
HILL: Hey.
YELLIN: Wow.
MARTIN: Is he graduating or something?
BLOOM: Just part of the ceremony.
MARTIN: OK.
HILL: He does love golf.
YELLIN: I hope he has the whole get-up on.
MARTIN: Certainly is the golf also. I'm interested to know if the president is going to make a crack about the honorary degree. So we'll wait and see what he says on that stage.
BLOOM: Yes, that's the issue.
MARTIN: All right, folks, of course, I want to bring back right now, Hilary Rosen, as well as Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis.
We're talking about "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and whether or not President Barack Obama should repeal it. And here's what Kit (ph) had to say on Facebook.
"President Obama needs to leave it in place. It would bring morale down and endanger our troops even more. Leave it in place."
Well, folks, what do you think about it?
ROSEN: You know, Roland --
Roland?
MARTIN: Yes, Hilary, go ahead.
ROSEN: You know, our polls at CNN are always scientific, I know. But --
MARTIN: They are.
ROSEN: Three quarters of the American people for the last five years have believed that this policy should be repealed. This is just, you know, antiquated thinking. And, you know, Mr. Maginnis is just sort of advocating kind of old prejudice.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, in addition to that, I mean, Robert -- Robert, a question for you.
ROSEN: There are armies all across the world --
BLOOM: In addition to that, if we're having here 12,500 people discharged from the military for being gay, each one of them presumably had a hearing where we are getting into the question of their sexuality. Is that a good use of resources right now?
MAGINNIS: Now keep in mind, we've discharge over 100,000 people for all sorts of reasons every year. But keep in mind also that a recent poll of military active duty people said that maybe 25 percent, as many as 25 percent might leave if this issue were overturned. Now that --
ROSEN: That's totally discredited (ph). MAGINNNIS: Wait a second, wait a second. That creates a very serious problem for our Congress which, under the constitution has the obligation to raise an army.
Now if you're going to alienate the people that are defending this country, you are not being smart. Keep in mind as well, over a thousand general officers, 50 four-star generals...
MARTIN: All right, Robert.
MAGINNIS: ... said very recently that this issue ought to stay put. It should not be changed.
MARTIN: Hilary -- Hilary, about 20 seconds. Hillary?
ROSEN: You have the Joint Chiefs of Staff General John Shalikashvili who completely disagreed with that.
MAGINNIS: Former.
ROSEN: That, you know, you have military just as many military officers on the other side of this.
MAGINNNIS: There you go.
ROSEN: And what you will have, I think, is an orderly process where President Obama will bring people together and say we are not going to be the last country in the world to institutionalize prejudice against honorable men and women in the military. We are going --
MAGINNIS: We are not the last country in the world, Hilary.
ROSEN: We're the last civilized country fighting in Iraq.
MAGINNIS: You don't understand what you're talking about. You have to consider what the Muslim world is saying on this issue. You need to consider the Chinese, the Russians --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Hilary and Robert --
ROSEN: We're not allies with these wars with the Muslims.
MAGINNIS: Yes, we are.
MARTIN: Hilary and Robert -- Hilary and Robert --
ROSEN: We are allies with European countries.
MAGINNIS: You don't know what you're talking about, Hilary.
MARTIN: Hilary and Robert, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you so very, very much. Right now, folks, we'll take a live picture going to Arizona, where President Barack Obama, of course, he has landed. Air Force One is there. Entered (ph) Sky Harbor Airport. He's headed to the commencement address at Arizona State University. And we'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTIN: All right, folks, welcome back. The picture you're seeing, of course, is Air Force One waiting for President Barack Obama to descend from his wonderful ride there.
There at Arizona, he's set to speak at Arizona State University. Again, some 9,000 graduates, 63,000 folks will be at Sun Devil Stadium. And, of course, this is going to be an interesting speech because this is the university where there's a controversy for not giving him an honorary degree.
HILL: Right.
MARTIN: And all kind of drama and stuff like that.
HILL: And Candy Crowley had an interesting report on this earlier tonight in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
MARTIN: The Sun Devil Stadium right there, folks.
HILL: That it's in Devil Stadium at ASU talking about the fact that in 2003, ASU had made the decision that for current politicians they wouldn't be handing out honorary degrees. But the interesting point that Candy made was part of the problem with all this is probably in the way it was handled PR wise.
MARTIN: Right.
HILL: If they've come out and said that right away, there may not have been as much controversy.
MARTIN: Well, supposedly they're going to name a scholarship after him, in that way they say it's going to educate thousands of students far more important than an honorary degree.
BLOOM: More of a legacy that will go on and on.
MARTIN: Right. Bottom line is they failed the PR test. I think it's safe to say they failed the PR test.
And so, again, folks, you can actually watch his speech live on "AC 360." We're taking that live when he actually speaks at Sun Devil Stadium, so looking forward to it.
Also, I want to thank everybody who called and e-mailed a comment. Your voices are important, and we love hearing from you. Remember, folks, if you like the music you heard here, go to CNN.com/Campbell, see our playlist.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
ALL: Holler.
