Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Colgan Air Flight Crew's Competency and Training Questioned on Buffalo Plane Crash; Father of Accused Soldier in Stress Clinic Shooting Speaks Out; Foreclosure Rates Continue to Climb; Time and Money Running Out on Social Security?; Inside Look at Two Wars; The First Gen Y Congressman; New Push for Cuban Trade
Aired May 13, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and a fine Wednesday morning to you. It's May the 13th. John Roberts along with Kiran Chetry.
Good morning to you.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Nice to see we match inadvertently.
ROBERTS: You know, it's just -- it's that serendipitous thing that happens.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: It's just it's that unconscious connection, and looks great this morning. Very nice.
CHETRY: Your tie didn't match mine yesterday. Oh, you didn't wear a tie yesterday.
ROBERTS: Yes, I did, actually.
CHETRY: Oh, you did?
ROBERTS: Yes. It was Monday I didn't. And believe me, I caught heck for it as well.
CHETRY: You always will. Well, a lot to cover this morning. Thanks so much.
Here are the big stories we're breaking down for you. Coming up in the next 15 minutes, there's a troubling picture that's emerging this morning of that commuter plane that crashed near Buffalo, New York back in February.
There are transcripts now that have been released of the cockpit voice recordings raising some questions about the flight crew's competency and also training. We're going to hear what the crew was talking about just minutes before the plane slammed into the ground killing them, all 49 people onboard, one person on the ground.
We're also learning more about the deadliest incident, soldier- on-soldier violence in the six-year Iraq war. An Army sergeant now facing five counts of murder accused of shooting five fellow servicemen at a military stress clinic in Baghdad. This morning, we're hearing from the victims' families and also the father of the alleged shooter who says the Army is to blame for pushing his son over the edge.
Also, former Vice President Dick Cheney sparking a new flood of calls on our AMERICAN MORNING show hotline. His criticism of Democrats and the Obama administration angered many people yesterday. This morning, many of you are sending us a message. You'll hear it.
Well, we begin with the disturbing details of what happened inside of the cockpit of that Colgan Air commuter that crashed near Buffalo, New York this winter.
ROBERTS: It's fair to say if you fly a lot or you have loved ones who do, you want to believe that the pilots who you may only see for a second or two when you board the aircraft are fully trained and know how to deal with any emergency. But this morning, its hearings into the February crash continue. We are learning what was going on and what was being said by the pilots just minutes before the plane crashed to the ground killing all 49 people onboard and one person on the ground.
CNN's Allan Chernoff joins us now with the very latest. To read through those transcripts, it sends chills up your spine.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly enough to make you think twice about wanting to step on to an airplane. And it is quite clear now that during those final seconds, it seems that the pilot and the co-pilot simply did not know how to prevent the plane from crashing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): Jesus Christ, we're down, exclaimed pilot Marvin Renslow. Then, First Officer Rebecca Shaw screamed as Flight 3407 crashed into a private home near Buffalo-Niagara International Airport. Those were the final 20 seconds of the cockpit voice recorder. Only minutes before, Shaw told Renslow of her fear of crashing in icy conditions. That was a violation of cockpit rules requiring all discussion to focus on landing the aircraft.
Why couldn't Captain Renslow save the plane? The National Transportation Safety Board is examining Renslow's training at Colgan Air, the regional carrier that operated Flight 3407. Renslow never received hands-on experience with the safety system of the Bombardier Q400 aircraft, called a stick pusher and activate it to prevent the plane from stalling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know of any stick training or stick pusher training that was done in the actual Q400 prior to the accident?
PAUL PRYOR, COLGAN AIR: In the simulator, no. In the grounds book portion, it is covered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So its information it's not practical experience with handling anything.
PRYOR: Correct.
CHERNOFF: The airline doesn't have to provide that training, according to the FAA.
TINA SINISCALCO, SISTER OF CRASH VICTIM: This should not have happened. No. These 50 people should be enjoying their life right now.
CHERNOFF: Captain Renslow was fully FAA certified, but he had failed five pilot tests, three of which occurred before he joined the airline. Colgan Air says Renslow revealed only one of those failures to the airline. Those facts led the safety board to ask an official from the aircraft's manufacturer if a more experienced pilot would have saved the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe this was a recoverable stall?
WALLY WARNER, BOMBARDIER: My opinion is yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Pilot fatigue is another issue that the NTSB is looking at. The captain was seen sleeping in the crew room before the flight, and the first officer commuted through the night to Newark where the flight began.
ROBERTS: What does this say about training at regional airlines? Is there a problem hereon?
CHERNOFF: There very well may be. Since the crash, I've been speaking with veteran pilots. And a number of them have said to me that they believe the regional airlines do not provide as much training as they should, as much training as they used to. They say that there definitely has been cost cutting.
The Regional Airline Association says that's absolutely not the case. But I think what we're going to see out of this hearing is a lot of heat on the FAA because their requirements are simply not detailed enough, not strict enough, and we see that right here.
ROBERTS: Yes, that one fellow said it all. He thought that the stall was recoverable. So maybe those people did die unnecessarily. We'll find out.
CHERNOFF: Very tragic.
ROBERTS: All right, thanks.
CHETRY: Also for the first time this morning, we're hearing from the families of soldiers gunned down at a military counseling center in Iraq. Nineteen-year-old Michael Edward Yates of Federalsburg, Maryland, was one of five victims. Yates had been at the combat stress clinic for about five days. His grandfather says he's struggling to understand how an American soldier could have been killed by one of his own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HURLEY JR., GRANDFATHER OF VICTIM: My grandson went there to get help, too. He was having a rough time.
You know? You know, 19 years old. They're killing people. Your enemy, your senior friends die, and he was stressed. And he went there and then somebody else who was more stressed than him killed him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Meantime, the father of the accused killer, 44-year-old Sergeant John Russell, is speaking out. He's also blaming the Army for the tragic incident.
Ed Lavandera has the story.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, Sergeant John Russell grew up here in Sherman, Texas. And just before he deployed for Iraq last summer, he bought a house in this neighborhood. And this is where we spoke with his father and only son.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): It started with a fight inside this combat stress clinic in Camp Liberty, Baghdad, between Sergeant John Russell and other Army officers. Russell was being escorted back to his barracks when he snapped.
WILBURN RUSSELL, SOLDIER'S FATHER: As soon as they got a little ways from the facility, he beat the crap out of the guy and took his gun away from him.
LAVANDERA: Military officials say Sergeant Russell then drove back to the clinic and killed five U.S. soldiers. But Russell's father says it wasn't combat stress that made him kill, but fellow soldiers who pushed him over the edge. John Russell's father and son spoke extensively with us about the Army sergeant's experience in Iraq.
RUSSELL: They overstressed him. They broke him. They ruined his life. He told him, you're an idiot, you don't belong in here. We're going to break you. We're going to get you out of here.
LAVANDERA: Russell was on his third tour in Iraq. His family says the 21-year Army veteran never showed signs of post-traumatic stress, and even if he did, he wouldn't have talked about it.
RUSSELL: He wouldn't have asked for help if he had to, you know.
LAVANDERA (on camera): He would have?
RUSSELL: No, he would not have. No.
LAVANDERA: Do you think that's maybe why they...
RUSSELL: He thinks he's a John Wayne, you know, a man's man, you know? He's laid back. He's real quiet.
JOHN RUSSELL, SOLDIER'S SON: Something in his mind just went off and he just had no control over it is what I think.
LAVANDERA: You said earlier he's not a violent guy.
J. RUSSELL: No, not at all. Not at all.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Military officials in Baghdad say Sergeant Russell was ordered to undergo counseling last week because of unspecified words and actions.
MAJ. GEN. DAVID PERKINS, U.S. ARMY: Just know that his chain of command had concerns about him. He had been undergoing counseling within the command. Again, they had already taken the obedient measure of removing his weapon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Sergeant Russell's son tells me he last received an e-mail from his father on April 25th, wishing him a happy birthday and saying that he was looking forward to the end of his deployment and that he would be home to visit in less than two months -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Ed Lavandera reporting for us this morning. Ed, thanks so much for that.
It's been nearly 72 hours since former Vice President Dick Cheney made his Sunday talk show appearance once again blasting the Obama administration. But this morning, his anger over the crackdown on tough anti-terror policies started under the Bush administration continues to light up our show hotline.
Yesterday, every caller criticized Mr. Cheney, but this morning, many of you are coming to his defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CALLER: Dick Cheney is all for America and I wish Americans would wake up and see this.
CALLER: I absolutely agree with what Dick Cheney said, and that I think he presented it in a very well reasoned and rational form. I think the media characterizations of him as a loud mouth or somehow being hysterical are, you know, grossly inaccurate and unfair.
CALLER: I just want to let your liberal viewers know that Vice President Cheney is and was a true patriot of this country, and he loves this country dearly. We are all safe when he and President Bush were in office.
CALLER: I want to know why we never saw Dick Cheney as our vice president and now we see him every day.
CALLER: I am a Republican. And I do not think that Dick Cheney reflects the values of the Republican Party anymore.
CALLER: Dick Cheney is the crazy uncle that does not need to be let out of the closet.
CALLER: Nobody cares what he has to say. He's over. He's done with. Why doesn't he just go away?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Well, keep those calls coming in because we love to include you in our program. The number is 1-877-MY-AMFIX. 1-877-692- 6349. The phone lines, of course, are open 24/7.
CHETRY: Also this morning, the parents of an Army Ranger killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan are now questioning President Obama's choice to leave the war in Afghanistan.
In an interview with the Associated Press, Pat Tillman's parents accused Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal of helping to create the false story that their son, a former NFL star, was killed by enemy fire back in 2004. They say that General McChrystal's record should be carefully considered before he's confirmed pending an investigation cleared General McChrystal of any wrongdoing.
About 90 minutes from now, the space shuttle Atlantis will rendezvous with the aging Hubble space telescope to begin a critical and also risky repair mission. NASA engineers discovered a string of nicks, about 21 inches long on the shuttle's critical outer heat shield. They believe it was caused by the impact of debris from the fuel tank shortly after liftoff. NASA is saying right now it does not pose any threat to reentry.
And Oprah Winfrey says she loves her private jet and her home. But hear why she tells graduates that things, having things don't necessarily spell success.
It's 10 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Oh, yes, remember these days -- top 40 radio. The power house of rock 'n' roll.
CHETRY: The quiet storm in Vegas.
ROBERTS: Fifteen minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A live look at Las Vegas thanks to our friends at KVBC. Its 78 degrees, going up to 92. It's going to be sunny out there today. Boy, oh, boy, it's going to be a dry heat, though, right?
CHETRY: That's right. ROBERTS: It's a good thing about Vegas. It's hot so there's a dry heat.
CHETRY: KVBC. How do you say that?
ROBERTS: KVBC.
CHETRY: All right. That's a good one. You need the deepness in your voice, there's resonance there.
Well, Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business" this morning. You know, I got to tell you this is hilarious. We've been talking about the sort of anti-wealth situation.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Right.
CHETRY: You know, it's embarrassing to be rich these days. All the CEOs saying no, no, no, I didn't get that big of a bonus. And now Oprah comes up and says, hey, I love my corporate jet. The best thing ever.
ROMANS: You know, a few weeks ago when I said it's an American dream of flying a corporate jet. You know, you want to start with nothing, climb up all the ladder. And people said oh, that's elitist. Why -- and Oprah says it. Suddenly it's like, hmm, maybe we should rethink about, you know, creating wealth in this country.
CHETRY: Because they've been struggling, the manufacturers...
ROMANS: The corporate -- oh, no, absolutely. I mean, anything that has to do with, you know, corporate retreats have been struggling and stuff. So, it will be interesting to see if her voice will make it cool again to try to make money in this country because it's not very popular.
We talked about Las Vegas here. I want to talk about Las Vegas a little bit because that is one of the hardest hit places in the country for foreclosures. One in 56 households are getting a foreclosure filing in Las Vegas.
There's new foreclosure numbers out at midnight, and what they were was, frankly, shocking even for jaded business reporters like me who've seen some big numbers. Another number, another month of record foreclosures in this country.
Think about it. By the time someone gets a padlock on the front door, it's been a year-and-a-half-long process. Every day in the month, 2,100, almost, homes were padlocked and turned back over to the banks in this country.
These are the top ten states for foreclosures -- California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, Illinois. We got some Rust Belt states that are seeing a pickup. The banks had stopped the foreclosure process for a few months, as you know. And now that they are sorting through who can be saved, who can't be saved, they've started foreclosures again. So 340,000-some foreclosure filings, that's from the very first default notice in the mailbox to the padlock on the front door. That is a lot of folks losing their homes.
CHETRY: You hear those programs that the Obama administration initiated or try to initiate work?
ROMANS: They're just getting started. And we're told that by the fall, we'll see the full effects of that. But they are starting to work through that process. Which brings me to "Romans' Numeral."
ROBERTS: Yes.
ROMANS: This is a number -- 169,000 is this number. 169,000. What do you think this number represents?
CHETRY: You've got it right yesterday.
ROMANS: And it's dollars.
ROBERTS: You know I got the one bright guess out of the entire week, I'm afraid. One hundred sixty-nine thousand, that would be the average income of members of Congress?
ROMANS: Good guess. But not right.
CHETRY: I'd say the average amount that people that are going into foreclosure owe on their homes.
ROMANS: That's also a good guess. This is the median price of a home in the first quarter. Not here where I live. Not in New York City, of course, we're running a little high.
The median, national median price of the first quarter, $169,000. Why is the number important? Because the good news out of this whole crisis is that first-time homebuyers with an $8,000 tax credit and with low mortgage rates and with home prices falling are in there and buying up about half of the homes on the market are first-time homebuyers. So, there are people who are coming out winners in the wreckage of the home problem. And that is first-time homebuyers.
ROBERTS: All right.
ROMANS: One hundred sixty-nine thousand. That's the median price. It's falling. It was above $200,000 last year. So, it's still falling but making it more affordable for some people.
CHETRY: All right. Christine, thank you.
ROMANS: All right.
CHETRY: Well, for Oprah, life is pretty good during her commencement address at Duke University on Sunday. This is what we're talking about when we first were joined by Christine.
The talk show queen spoke about helping others, also making wise choices. But she also was pretty candid about the joys of success. And she wasn't bashful about admitting she enjoys some of the perks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": I will have to say, it is a wonderful thing to have a beautiful home. Or homes. Wonderful thing to have a beautiful home which just escaped the fire in Santa Barbara, and it is really fantastic to have your own jet. And anybody who says it is lying to you. That jet thing is really good.
But you really haven't completed the circle of success unless you can help somebody else move forward. That's the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Very true words -- what she said at the end about the circle of success. But also interesting -- a couple of articles out saying could she have single handedly maybe save the corporate jet industry which is struggling right now because --
ROMANS: It has not been popular to be a wealth -- trying to be wealthy in this country over the past six months or so, right? And get the whole bank, the CEO perks and all this stuff. And she's just saying, look, this is what the -- this is what the American dream is all about, right?
ROBERTS: It's interesting, though, is you got to look at that statement in the whole context. She says it's great to have a lovely house, the corporate jet is great.
ROMANS: But it's the whole...
ROBERTS: But you haven't really done anything until you help somebody else. So...
ROMANS: That's absolutely right.
ROBERTS: Maybe the folks who are trying to sell corporate jets are putting the emphasis on the wrong party.
ROMANS: Maybe you're right.
ROBERTS: Well, if you're not flying around in a corporate jet during your retirement, we've got some news for you here.
Dire warning about Social Security. New forecast show it running out of money faster than predicted, but is the sky really falling? We'll talk to an expert who says the government has got it all wrong. And he's the youngest member of Congress out to save the GOP before he's 30.
But is Aaron Schock getting more attention for his looks than his politics? We'll ask him.
It's 18 1/2 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. If you're waking up to headlines like this one on the front page of "The New York Times" today, "Recession Drains Social Security and Medicare," you might be worried about your future.
While the latest report card on the social safety net is not encouraging, our next guest says when it comes to Social Security, it's much ado about nothing.
Bob Weiner is the former chief of staff of the House Committee on Aging. He joins us now from Washington.
Bob, you say, everybody's got it wrong on these alarm bells that were being sounded yesterday about Social Security. How do we have it wrong?
BOB WEINER, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON AGING: Well, John, first, thanks for having us on the show. And not everyone has it wrong. There are a lot of experts in Social Security who understand that this is a program that has been the most successful one in the history of American social programs taking half of senior citizens out of poverty. Half of seniors rely on Social Security for 90 percent of their income.
ROBERTS: Right. What do we have wrong, though?
WEINER: Well, the program is solvent for the next 30 years. And even then, when they say insolvent, it still will be able to pay 75 percent of the benefits even under the worst economic model. And the economic model that they're using, John, is the crash that we're in right now. So, they've taken the worst-case scenario, instead of recognizing that the economy will improve and that will go back to a solvency situation with Social Security.
ROBERTS: So, what the Social Security trustees have said, Bob, is that the system is going to go insolvent in the year 2037. That's four years earlier than have been thought. It was earlier thought that it was going to be 2041. But they say that they have taken into account the bad economy and an economic recovery beginning next year. So, what are they missing?
WEINER: Well, they're missing the fact that 11 years there have been deficits that the Social Security trust fund has already absorbed. They've, in the past 15 years, there have been three times that they stated that the system will go downward rather than upward.
This is a fluctuating system. And what we have now, John, and I don't want to get into the weeds, but you have the lowest birthrate by the baby boomers, 2.1. You have a 2.9 birthrate for the current baby boomers, but they're having the fewest children. So, as soon as you get past this little blip, the system goes back into complete solvency. And that's a point that nobody takes into account.
ROBERTS: So, you're saying basically that pressure will be taken off as we go forward. But you do say, though, and Tim Geithner was talking about this yesterday, Medicare and Medicaid are the real problems here. They're expecting to go broke in 2017. And this is a real problem, is it not?
WEINER: That is the real problem. Social Security is solvent for at least 30 years, and one-third of the cost of the Iraq war or one-third of the tax cuts, even then in the worst-case scenario would solve it. Let's worry about that in 30 years. As Nancy Pelosi said, first, do no harm.
But Medicare is in dire straits, and it can be solved with allowing imports. It can be solved with buying and buying. And it can be solved with the national health care program that seems to be a consensus toward right now.
ROBERTS: Right. Let's take a look at the burdens that Medicare and Medicaid are going to be suffering in the next, I guess, eight years. 2008, we had 45 million people who are on Medicare. Cost $11,000 per year per person. 2018, that number is expected to rise to $59 million as the baby boomers retire.
WEINER: Right.
ROBERTS: An average cost per person of $17,000 a year. What are we looking at here? We're looking at higher taxes, higher co-pays, higher deductibles, health care for seniors are going to cost a lot more than it's costing right now?
WEINER: No. You're looking at cost controls in the health care system as the president has proposed, and you're looking at building a volume through national health insurance that will be able to absorb these kinds of problems.
We have to get a handle on health care, or it's going to break us. It's costing $1,200 per car which is one of the reasons that the auto industry is in dire straits for health insurance.
Business, the hospitals, the doctors -- there's a building consensus for the first time to solve the problems not only in Medicare but in all of health insurance where you have 47 million people that don't have health insurance.
ROBERTS: Well, we'll see if they hear you in Washington today, Bob. Worry about Medicare, leave Social Security alone for the time being.
WEINER: Correct.
ROBERTS: Bob Weiner, thanks very much -- Kiran.
WEINER: It's a pleasure.
CHETRY: Well, this morning, a severe line of storms expected to hit parts of the Midwest. Folks are on alert for tornadoes, damaging hail, and torrential rains that could trigger flash flooding.
Our CNN weather center keeping an eye on all of the action for us. A war of necessity and a war of choice. We get an insider's look at the two U.S. wars in Iraq from someone who served in both Bush administrations.
It's 26 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Pretty shot this morning of the rooftops of the buildings in Manhattan. Right now in New York City, 49 degrees shaping up to be 69 a little bit later for a high. And sun, finally.
It is 29 minutes past the hour. Checking our top stories.
A historic moment as Pope Benedict XVI makes his first visit to the West Bank. This morning during a speech in Bethlehem, the pope delivered the strongest public support yet for a Palestinian state. He also expressed sympathy for Palestinians who suffered during the Mideast turmoil.
This morning, 52 people are safe after a scary landing at Houston's Hobby Airport. Shortly after touchdown, one of the tires on a Southwest Airlines 737 blew out and caught fire. You see the pictures there.
Within minutes, the emergency chutes were deployed. Everyone was able to escape. Some minor scrapes and bumps were reported but that's about it. The airline says that there had been earlier reports of problems with the landing gear. There you see the shot once again. And the plane coming to a slow stop and that wheel still on fire.
It totally stopped. There you go. There's a close-up right now of the wheel on fire. I guess we'll miss it if we stay on this any longer.
All right. Well, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is ready to tell her story. She signed a deal with Harper Collins to publish a memoir. It's due out in 2010 when Palin is up for reelection. The former Republican vice presidential candidate is expected to write about her personal and political life including last year's campaign and her teen daughter's pregnancy.
ROBERTS: Changing of the guard for the United States in Afghanistan. President Obama installing a new top military commander, Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal, to enforce his new strategy there.
Meantime in Iraq, the administration appears on track to meet its June 30th deadline to withdraw troops from major cities, say perhaps Mosul.
Richard Haass served in both Bush administrations and had a unique vantage point for the wars in Iraq. His new book "War of Necessity, War of Choice" is out now. Richard Haass joins us now from Washington. Richard, we'll talk about the book in just a second. But let me ask you, first of all, changing of the guard in Afghanistan, do you expect this is going to make a difference with Lieutenant General McChrystal in there?
RICHARD HAASS, AUTHOR, "WAR OF NECESSITY, WAR OF CHOICE": It will make some difference, John. It's already part of the larger strategy that the president has introduced. As you know, we've got nearly 20,000 more combatant soldiers there. We've got 4,000 more trainers.
And essentially what we see is -- want to see is a more aggressive, a more assertive strategy, but also a slightly different one -- less in terms of pure operations, more of a traditional counterinsurgency strategy where you protect populations. And the view is that this new general is better suited for it.
ROBERTS: We mentioned that General Ray Odierno met with the president yesterday. He said that he thought that it seemed that he was still on track to make that June 30th deadline to withdraw from most if not all of the major cities in Iraq and perhaps keep things on track for an eventual withdrawal of all American forces by the end of 2011.
But you suggested in this new book -- it's really an interesting read -- that this whole thing could have been prevented in the first place if people would have just listened to you. You went to Condoleezza Rice before the war in early 2003 expressing you concerns, what did you tell her?
HAASS: This was always a war of choice. It was a war the United States determined to fight. It didn't have to. But then once that decision was made, we could and should have gone about it in a very different way, with far more troops to begin with.
And then after the war, there were all sorts of lessons that people such as myself put forward from having studied history about not disbanding the Iraqi army, about not banning people who were members of the Ba'ath Party from high political office. Essentially, it was a textbook effort on how not to go about a state-building program. It took the administration three or four years to really get it right. But by then, the costs had gone up astronomically.
ROBERTS: But tell me about that meeting with Condoleezza Rice when she was the national security adviser.
HAASS: Sure. I went into her office, and this was in the summer of 2002 to raise the question about whether in fact we ought to go to war with Iraq. I thought it wasn't necessary. I thought we had better alternatives. I thought it would drain all the energy out of American foreign policy.
And Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, cut me off, quite bluntly told me to save my breath, told me the president had made up his mind. And what stunned me is this was so early. This was, again, in the summer of 2002 before there had been any systematic decision-making meeting by the National Security Council of the pros and cons of doing just this.
ROBERTS: And this was at the same time that Donald Rumsfeld, then defense secretary, was saying, what are you guys worried about, we're not going to war in Iraq, we're not talking about anything like that.
The beginning of chapter eight, you say that you went even further, and this was at the beginning of 2003. You said, quote, "I decided to make a last-ditch effort at slowing things down. I closed the door to my office and I typed out a memo to Colin Powell that argued that despite all the buildup it was not too late for the United States to back off using force."
I mean, you basically wrote a memo to the president saying, Mr. President, you've got an out here, you don't have to go to war. What happened to that memo?
HAASS: The memo essentially went nowhere. At a point in every decision-making process, the trains left the station. And what I learned was that by early 2003, John, this train had essentially left the station. People had decided to go ahead and they thought that was it going to be quick and easy. They thought it was going to transform Iraq. They thought it was going to bring democracy to the Middle East.
And as we know, it transformed both Iraq and the Middle East but not in the way any of them intended.
ROBERTS: So, you know what people at home are saying right now? They're saying, Richard, you had all of these concerns, you expressed them in the summer of 2002, again in 2003. You didn't think this was the right thing to do. Why didn't you come out and say something publicly? Why didn't you go publicly in opposition to the White House?
HAASS: Well, it won't work if you have gone publicly. I simply would have been dismissed at a dissident voice. I'm a believer that most of the time you have a better chance of having influence, John, if you work from the inside. So I try to press my case in meetings. I try to press it in a series of memoranda.
It was just that in this administration, to be blunt, things were biased against people who held my point of view. So whether it was people in the intelligence community or myself, we simply really didn't have our day in court. This was not a systematic flat playing field, but rather, this was a group of people who determined early on after 9/11 that the United States needed to go to war to send a message to change the course of history, so those of us who felt otherwise were simply frozen out.
ROBERTS: Yes. We all remember how Scott Ritter was branded as a heretic in the run-up to the war. And he was the only guy out there who was right about the whole thing.
"War of Necessity, War of Choice," a new book from Richard Haass.
It's good to see you this morning, Richard. Thanks for coming in.
HAASS: Thank you, John.
CHETRY: Well, right now, folks across the Midwest are bracing for some severe weather, and there's a possibility for some tornadoes, some hail and some torrential rains that could trigger flash flooding. Our CNN weather center is watching the radar.
He looks more like a congressional aide than a congressman. He's working with colleagues who have children older than he is. We want to hear what Congressman Aaron Schock has to say about the age gap and how it may change your views of Congress.
It's 35 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Thirty-eight minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Time to fast forward through the stories that will be making news later today.
At 10:00 a.m. Eastern, get ready for some fireworks inside the Capitol. The former FBI agent who interrogated terrorist suspect Abu Zubaydah is expected to testify that the harsh interrogation techniques including waterboarding were not necessary.
At 10:00 a.m. Eastern, the House committee holds a hearing on the collapse and the federal rescue of insurance giant AIG. Lawmakers are going to be focusing on where the taxpayer money is now going. AIG CEO Edward Liddy is expected to testify. The company has received more than $180 billion in government aid.
At 3:00 p.m. Eastern, first lady Michelle Obama is going to be stopping by a community school, where she'll meet and read to third- grade students. This is in southeast D.C. It's all part of her tour of getting to know Washington.
And just a few miles north of where First Lady Michelle Obama will be, there's a young congressman, in fact, the first of the millennial generation elected to the House. And he's drawing a lot of attention and headlines not just because of his politics. Here's CNN's Kate Bolduan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Off and sprinting here at the Capitol Challenge Charity Race, a good way to describe Aaron Schock's fast track career.
REP. AARON SCHOCK (R), ILLINOIS: I like to stay busy, so I'm having a lot of fun. It's a lot of work.
BOLDUAN: A lot of work indeed for the Republican from Illinois. At 27, he's the youngest member of Congress, the first born in the 1980s. At just 19, he won as a write-in candidate for the local school board. Schock then served four years in the Illinois State House before making it to Washington in November.
(on camera): But a lot of what is getting the attention is your age, your youth.
SCHOCK: Yes.
BOLDUAN: You see it as a hindrance, or do you see it as a fresh new perspective on Capitol Hill, which is not known to have young people?
SCHOCK: The average age of a member of Congress this year is 57, the oldest in our country's history. And I would suggest that our government would look a lot different if there were more members of Congress that were in their 20s.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): Schock's focus is squarely on the Republican agenda.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Schock.
BOLDUAN: Cutting taxes, slashing the deficit, credit card reform.
SCHOCK: Identity theft is a real problem.
BOLDUAN: But he might be getting more attention for his looks than his politics. The "L.A. Times" has called him a Republican dream date. And he's the rare member of Congress chased by celebrity Web site tmz.com.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How's the nightlife in D.C.?
SCHOCK: I haven't been out.
BOLDUAN: Even getting a grilling on Comedy Central's "Colbert Report."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have six-pack abs?
SCHOCK: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congressman...
BOLDUAN: Schock blames that one on President Obama.
SCHOCK: Because he was the one caught on the beach in Hawaii without a shirt on.
BOLDUAN (on camera): So, you're saying the president's the one that opened Pandora's box here.
SCHOCK: Right. Exactly.
BOLDUAN (voice-over): So, what's next since Congressman Schock has come this far, this fast?
SCHOCK: I'm enjoying the role now. But I don't know if I want to, you know, do this for forever. And I look around the Congress right now as a new member and see people who have served for 20 and 30 years. And I'm not sure I want that to be me. So, I take one day at a time, one election at a time. And ultimately, the decision's with the voters.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: An appropriately politically correct answer. I asked him, is there any fear or potential downside of getting so much attention for his looks. Schock says no. He says to get their vote, you first have to get their attention. And he seems to be doing just that -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Kate Bolduan for us. Kate, thanks so much.
Now that U.S.-Cuba relations show signs of thawing, is it time to end the trade embargo and start doing business with Cuba all together?
See who's pushing for it for practical reasons -- the creation of U.S. jobs.
And an invention that might make you think of the Jetsons or James Bond could hit the marketplace sooner than you think. Are we ready for the flying car?
It's coming up on 42 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: And we're back with the Most News in the Morning.
A live look this morning at Dallas. Thanks to our friends at WFAA. 74 degrees, going up to a high of 89. Could be cloudy and windy there today. And a lot of bad weather on top for some areas of the nation.
Jacqui Jeras at the weather center in Atlanta. She's tracking all of the extreme weather.
We know that Rob is out there with the tornado chasers, and he may see some action today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: Jacqui, thanks so much.
By the way, we'll be checking with Rob a little bit later on and see what's up in his tornado alley.
CHETRY: Tornado hunters and all their equipment.
All right. Well, lights, camera and the pooper-scooper. Well, if you think your pet have what it takes to be a star, Lola Ogunnaike is going to show us how to channel your canine's talent.
It's 47 minutes past the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Wright brothers introduced us to the first flight. The Jetsons allowed us to dream of taking a flying saucer to the local grocery store. If you thought the flying car was just an impossible dream, think again. Some M.I.T. engineers have done it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We flew! Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looked beautiful from up here.
TUCHMAN: Introducing the Terrafugia Transition -- a one-of-a- kind vehicle built to handle rush-hour traffic or fly over it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a steering wheel here. You got a gas pedal and a brake pedal on the floor. You've also got a control stick for when you're flying and a throttle for when you're flying.
TUCHMAN: The Transition's designers think of it first and foremost as an airplane, but once on the ground --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It converts between flying and driving in 20 seconds.
TUCHMAN: The touch of a few buttons makes it small enough to hit the highway, even park in a single-car garage.
CARL DIETRICH, CEO, TERRAFUGIA: It's something that we are really excited about because it really shows that a vehicle like this has the potential to expand aviation and make it more practical for a larger segment of the population.
TUCHMAN: Testing is under way right now. The inventor says you can see the Transition on a runway, a driveway or even Broadway by the end of 2011. By then, each have our own robot maid, too.
Gary Tuchman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: You know, you may have your next superstar living right under your roof, and you may not even know it yet. It's not clear if Bo Obama has any discernable talent. But America's first dog has some connection. And if you think your dog can be the next Lassie, CNN's Lola Ogunnaike looks at what it takes to make your pet a star.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOLA OGUNNAIKE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dogs like these have the "ah" factor, and some may even resemble famous furry faces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's like Toto from "The Wizard of Oz."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's adorable, isn't he?
OGUNNAIKE: Nancy Novagrad is president of All Tame Animals, a New York talent agency. She says your pooch will need more than just a pretty face to make it big.
NANCY NOVAGRAD, PRESIDENT, ALL TAME ANIMALS: You have a dog that's adorable, intelligent, but if it's not trained, it can't possibly know what you're asking it to do. You tell it to stay so photographs can be taken. It doesn't know what "stay" means.
Good girl.
OGUNNAIKE: During a recent doggie audition, Nancy wanted to know if this Yorkshire terrier, Dolce, had the right stuff.
NOVAGRAD: She's a little stressed now. She doesn't really know me. So, we want her to get more and more comfortable with strangers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
OGUNNAIKE: Other dogs have a built-in advantage.
NOVAGRAD: Retrievers are good, especially yellow labs and goldens, because they're at easy color to photograph. They go with everything. They are sort of Everydog. Mixed breeds that have an appealing look are very popular. And Jack Russells are very popular.
OGUNNAIKE: Star canines like Riley can make anywhere from $500 to $1,000 a day turning tricks. Riley has appeared on the cover of "Teen Vogue" and an ads like this one for Hunter Douglas. But his owner says he's in it for fame, not fortune.
(on camera): Do you ever watch a television show or a movie and you think, that dog's got nothing on my Riley?
CYNTHIA PALMER, DOG OWNER: Yes, all the time. My husband goes, there's another commercial you lost.
OGUNNAIKE (voice-over): If Riley keeps it up, he could be the next top dog.
NOVAGRAD: Lassie was wonderful. Lassie was iconic. You know? Who could ever beat Lassie?
Benji had a face. How could you not love that face?
OGUNNAIKE (on camera): And "The Little Rascals" dog, what was his name?
NOVAGRAD: Oh, right.
OGUNNAIKE: Spot. NOVAGRAD: See, we have three completely different looks. That's why you never know what the next star is going to be because there are so many appealing faces out there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OGUNNAIKE: How adorable, right?
CHETRY: Very cute, so, but, you know, I imagine for owners it's just as time-consuming, right? As being, you know, a stage mom.
OGUNNAIKE: It's not as lucrative as being a stage mom. But it's definitely an emotional commitment. And many of them are just as proud as a real stage mother. They live vicariously through their pets.
I spoke with the ASPCA yesterday, though, and they said it's really important that you make sure, one, that your pet is in a safe environment and, two, that they are not being forced to do anything that could be harmful to them. So we have to keep that in mind. Other than that, they're cool with it.
ROBERTS: Can I ever see a Jack Russell terrier there replacing Lassie?
CHETRY: There's no replacement for Lassie.
OGUNNAIKE: Lassie is an icon.
CHETRY: Right.
ROBERTS: Certainly is. Thanks, Lola.
CHETRY: Thanks, Lola.
ROBERTS: Could ending the trade embargo with Cuba actually generate jobs here in the United States. See who's pushing to partner with Cuba? They said it is time to trade. And they are even drawing up business plans already.
And the final words from the commuter plane that crashed near Buffalo, New York back in February. Hear what the two pilots were chatting about right before the plane went down.
It's 55 minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Well, it was bound to happen once U.S.-Cuban relations begin to thaw. Ideas for making money on the situation would be next. So, trade with Cuba keeps coming up, because opening up the ports could mean many new jobs for Americans.
Our Jim Acosta is live in Tampa now, where that entrepreneurial spirit is in full swing.
Hey, Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kiran, good morning.
That's right. You know, a pretty diverse coalition of people from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to liberal Democrats in Congress are calling for a change in course with the island, which explains why officials with the Port of Tampa and other ports in the U.S. are looking at ways to cash in, wondering if their ship has come in with Cuba.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL LINDELL, TAMPA PORT AUTHORITY COMMISSIONER: There's good fishing around here. That's for sure.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Florida real estate developer, Carl Lindell, sees more than good fishing from the deck of his yacht as a commissioner for the Port of Tampa, Lindell said the catch of the day should be Cuba.
LINDELL: We want to send a message to Washington that it's time to rethink this stuff, and try to find ways to build some bridges between us and the Cuban economy.
ACOSTA: With U.S. and Cuban relations improving, ports across the Gulf Coast are drawing up business plans, hoping for an end to the 47-year U.S. trade embargo against the island.
ARTHUR SAVAGE, TAMPA SHIPPING TYCOON: If we increase the ships, that ties right to jobs.
ACOSTA: Tampa shipping tycoon Arthur Savage is already exporting U.S. authorized farming products to Cuba. His grandfather once ran a ferry service to Havana.
SAVAGE: I would like to be right there one day with a mojitos in my hand going to Cuba.
ACOSTA: He worries the state's battered economy could be missing the boat.
SAVAGE: They want to trade with us.
ACOSTA: Before the embargo, imported tobacco from Cuba turned Tampa into America's cigar capital. Today, the city has only a few cigar factories left.
ERIC NEWMAN, CIGAR MAKER: There's a big mystique about Cuban tobacco.
ACOSTA: Cigar maker Eric Newman still cherishes the last bag of Havana tobacco his father liberated from the island.
NEWMAN: And to this day, we still have it. ACOSTA: He wants more you.
(on camera): So you want to get in on the game basically.
NEWMAN: We do. We do. Is it any better? Probably not. But the customer thinks it is. You, the media, will hype it up like nobody's business.
ACOSTA: And we were.
NEWMAN: We want to join the fun.
ACOSTA (voice-over): But Cuba's critics and Congress insists, the island must change first by freeing its political prisoners.
REP. CHRIS SMITH (R), NEW JERSEY: It seems to me that we need deeds, not words. And they talk a good game. Release the prisoners. That's the clearest, most tangible expression that things are in the process of changing in Cuba.
ACOSTA: With the embargo still in place, all Carl Lindell can do is dream of reeling in the big one.
LINDELL: We can't afford this embargo anymore. It's doing no one any good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And trade groups in Washington say billions of dollars are at stake with Cuba, which is why Tampa has some stiff competition. Already officials with the port of Mobile, Alabama are planning their own trade mission to Cuba in July -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right, interesting stuff. They want to be ahead of the pack for us.
Jim Acosta for us this morning. Thanks.
