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American Morning
Reports Say Fatigue Played a Role in Colgan Air Plane Crash in Buffalo, New York; Tornado in Missouri Kills One Person; Interview with Craigslist CEO; Obama Speaks to ASU Graduates at Commencement Exercise; Bailed Banks Forced to Take Taxpayer Money; FBI Agent Says Enhanced Interrogation Techniques Not Effective; Republican In- fighting; More Potent Marijuana; Oprah Apologizes to James Frey; Truth-o-Meter on Pelosi and Gingrich
Aired May 14, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. It's Thursday, May 14th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, I'm John Roberts. We've got a lot to cover for you this morning. And here are the big stories that we'll be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
Violent storms cutting a path of death and destruction in the Midwest. A tornado killed one person and damaged a number of buildings in northern Missouri. We'll show you some amazing images of the twister captured by a CNN iReporter.
Recipe for an accident. Investigators learned the pilots of that commuter plane crash near Buffalo may have been too tired for the conditions they flew into this past winter. Today, new questions about how poor pay and fatigue in the cockpit could spell disaster when you fly.
And Craigslist under pressure from law enforcement dropping its erotic services ads after the listings were linked to a murder. A new adult category will be closely monitored by employees, says the company. We're talking exclusively this morning with Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster.
But we begin this morning with a frightening thought, could the pilot at the controls on your next flight be too sleepy to fly?
CHETRY: Investigators want to know as they dig deeper into the cause of the airplane crash near Buffalo in February. We're learning that both pilots had very long commutes right before that flight and Colgan Air, which employed the pilots, is now accusing them of violating their professional responsibility. It's something co- pilot's Rebecca Shaw's parents are taking issue with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNN MORRIS, MOTHER OF REBECCA SHAW: I think I walked out of the hearings in shock because I truly felt that both she and the captain had been a scapegoat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Fifty people were killed when Flight 3407 crashed into a house in Buffalo. CNN's Allan Chernoff has been following the details of this case and he joins us now with more on what may sound out at the hearing and whether this sleep deprivation played into what happened.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems to have happened on Flight 3407 and it very well may be happening on the next flight you get on. The fact is a lot of crews, it seems, are commuting long distances to get to their base of operations and then getting on the plane with little sleep.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHY JOHNSON, WIFE OF CRASH VICTIM: It is shocking.
CHERNOFF (voice-over): Kathy Johnson is furious her husband Kevin died on a plane whose crew may had been functioning on little sleep.
JOHNSON: I wonder how many other pilots, first officers do the same thing that we're not aware. So it is very shocking to all of us.
CHERNOFF: Colgan Air Captain Marvin Renslow had nearly a full day off before assuming command of Flight 3407. Yet the NTSB investigation found he slept in the Newark Airport crew lounge, against Colgan Air regulations. The airline though appears to have been lax in enforcing the rule.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Colgan policy is that they're not to sleep in the crew room, but it turns out that they are sleeping in the crew room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People can come in between their flights when they're on duty and take a nap.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is napping sleeping?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a definition I'm not -- probably not prepared to answer.
CHERNOFF: First Officer Rebecca Shaw had three days off before the flight, yet she commuted through the night from Seattle catching rides on connecting FedEx flights to get to Newark.
HARRY MITCHEL, VP FLIGHT OPERATIONS, COLGAN: We hire professionals and those professionals we expect should show up fresh, ready to fly that aircraft.
MARTY AGIUS, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF CRASH VICTIM: You know, they're supposed to have their own accommodations, but we can't follow up on that. And that's totally ridiculous.
CHERNOFF: Captain Renslow hid his background from Colgan by not revealing two pilot exam failures in his job application. And the crew violated another rule that requires cockpit conversation to be focused on the flight.
MARK ROSENKER, NTSB ACTING CHAIRMAN: I am concerned about the winking and nodding that I have seen in some of the policies of the company -- your company -- and crew members and I don't believe it is only within your company.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: That winking and nodding by airlines may be putting us at danger the very next time that we get on a flight -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Yet the airlines says it allows crew members to live as far away from their base as they want and then they have to sort of pay for their own accommodations before they begin their shift. But how realistic is it that they're going to pay for their accommodations?
CHERNOFF: It's ridiculous. I mean, that is the Catch-22, right? Because the first officer was earning $16,000 a year, she can't afford to pay for a hotel room in Newark. She lives all the way out in Seattle. Obviously, this is what she was doing all the time. Her base of operations was Newark, New Jersey. She lived near Seattle. She was commuting like that all the time and then getting onboard the plane.
I mean, this is obviously what's going on frequently, you know? And that's what the acting chairman of the NTSB is referring to when he says winking and nodding.
CHETRY: Right.
CHERNOFF: The airlines know, they say, OK, we expect you to be alert, to be professional. In fact, one of the officials in Colgan Air said during the hearing yesterday that we expect our crews to fight fatigue professionally, to be professional about it. I mean, so they understand they're dealing with some fatigue.
CHETRY: Right. Allan Chernoff for us this morning. Thank you.
ROBERTS: Well, developing overnight, a deadly tornado tearing through northeastern Missouri. One person was killed and several others injured. One of our CNN iReporters, Michael Ambrosia, shot some dramatic video of the twister as it passed overhead the town of Novinger, Missouri.
CNN's Rob Marciano has spent the week searching for tornadoes with a team of storm chasers. He joins us live in Oklahoma this morning.
Rob, did you see the action from the storm system that came through there yesterday?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We certainly did. The problem with the storms that came through Oklahoma, a good majority of them didn't really develop all that well until nighttime came, and it was a long night for those who live in central Oklahoma as well. And with the tornado sirens going up right here in Norman, where the National Weather Center offices are, that, I'm told, hasn't happened in many, many years.
Regardless, there's a widespread outbreak, with 23 tornado reports, over 100 wind reports, over 100 hail reports. And right now, we have a tornado or severe thunderstorm watches that stretched from all the way from Ohio back through Kentucky, southern Illinois, western parts of Tennessee, and all the way down to northeast Texas. So still a very active morning as this line of thunderstorms continues to move off to the east.
Without tornadoes, this thing has winds that could gust to 70 miles an hour and hail that could have diameters of two inches or more. So damaging storms this morning moving especially across the mid south.
As you mentioned, deadly tornadoes moving across parts of Missouri yesterday. One woman died in her mobile home, 30 to 40 homes damaged with one particular cell that moved through that area.
And you also mentioned Oklahoma. This cell out of Ponca City that's in the northern part of Oklahoma, that eventually touched down and then this one still shot that we managed to take, our video is still feeding in from what we shot yesterday.
But I managed to take this one shot off my phone from one particular cell that we were watching with the Vortex2 team which later once the sun sets, developed a suspected tornado that may have touched down about an hour west here in Anadarko, where there was some damage from that particular cell.
So a very active day yesterday and a very active morning as this line continues to push off towards the south and east, and the Vortex 2 mission which we started to follow right here just three days ago will continue its mission for the next four and a half weeks as they continue to search for the mysteries which will hopefully tell us exactly when tornadoes will come and exactly how long they'll stay on the ground so that we can better warn people and save lives in the future.
John, back over to you.
ROBERTS: All right. It looks like you got pretty close to seeing one yesterday there, Rob.
Rob Marciano for us in Norman, Oklahoma.
Also this morning, Craigslist announcing that it is dropping its controversial erotic services ads. The Web site will create a new adult services category where ads are individually checked by employees before being posted.
The change has come just weeks after 23-year-old Boston University medical student Philip Markoff was charged with killing a masseuse that he apparently contacted on Craigslist. AMERICAN MORNING talked exclusively with Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster about the decision.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: You blame the media for sensationalizing what was going on on Craigslist in the wake of the so-called Craigslist killer up there in Boston. But isn't it true, Jim, that you knew that the site was being used for criminal enterprise and basically ignored it? Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said that Craigslist was like an online brothel.
JIM BUCKMASTER, CEO, CRAIGSLIST: Not at all. In fact, we thought a disservice was done to viewers and readers when Craigslist was classified or characterized, mischaracterized as being especially dangerous.
The incidence of violent crime connected with print classifieds is actually, believe or not, 1,000 times greater. That's 1,000 full greater than the incidence of violent crime that we've seen in Craigslist classified thus far.
ROBERTS: To the point of my question, Jim, isn't it true that you knew that people were using these erotic services for criminal enterprise and you basically turned a blind eye to it?
BUCKMASTER: No, that's absolutely not true. Ninety-five percent of the inappropriate activity on the site in this category was eliminated -- eliminated by the measures that we took last year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: You could see my entire interview with the Craigslist CEO in our next hour here at 7:15 Eastern on the Most News in the Morning -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Also brand new this morning, President Obama's replacement for retiring Supreme Court Justice David Souter could come very soon.
CNN is learning that the field has been narrowed to about a half dozen names, among them, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. But those who follow this are closely watching three others, federal judge Sonia Sotomayor, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush, as well as federal judge Diane Wood, who taught with the president at the University of Chicago, and the current solicitor general, Elena Kagan.
Also this morning, President Obama has wrapped up the first of three college commencement speeches that he'll deliver this season. Last night, he addressed some 9,000 graduates and more than 60,000 spectators at Arizona State University in Tempe. The president challenged the graduates to give back and make a difference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Many of our current challenges are unprecedented. There are no standard remedies, no go-to fixes this time around.
And class of 2009, that's why we're going to need your help. We need young people like you to step up. We need your daring, we need your enthusiasm, we need your energy, we need your imagination.
And let me be clear, when I say young, I'm not just referring to the date of your birth certificate. I'm talking about an approach to life, a quality of mind and a quality of heart. A willingness to follow your passions regardless of whether they lead to fortune and fame.
A willingness to question conventional wisdom and rethink old dogmas. A lack of regard for all the traditional markers of status and prestige. And a commitment instead to doing what's meaningful to you. What helps others? What makes a difference in this world?
I know starting your careers in troubled times is a challenge, but it is also a privilege. Because it's moments like these that force us to try harder and dig deeper and to discover gifts we never knew we had, to find the greatness that lies within each of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: There you have it.
The president also addressed the issue of the school refusing to grant him an honorary degree. We're going to play you his remarks - he made light of it - in about 20 minutes.
ROBERTS: He did. That's called taking lemons and turning them into lemonade.
CHETRY: Exactly.
ROBERTS: This morning we're learning that the nation's biggest banks may have been strong armed into taking your tax dollars. We've got the minute-by-minute details about what happened at that urgent meeting between Washington and the banks late last year.
And allegations of torture under investigation. A former FBI interrogator tells senators that harsh techniques do not work.
It's 11 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Thirteen and a half minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A live look at Denver. Thanks to our friends at KUSA. Forty- four degrees right now going up to a high of 75. Going to be surprisingly enough mostly sunny out there. Colorado is an amazing place. They get like 300 days of sunshine.
Let's fast forward now to the stories that will be making news later on today. It's 8:50 p.m. Eastern, the crew of the space shuttle Atlantis will begin the first of five spacewalks on their mission to repair the Hubble telescope. We'll bring that to you live. NASA officials say that spacewalks are dangerous because of all the space junk out there, where the Hubble is located. Don't forget the Chinese blew up a satellite in that area not long ago.
At 2:00 p.m. Eastern, Tony Blair, the former British prime minister and current Middle East envoy, will be on Capitol Hill. Blair will testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about the status of the Israeli Palestinian peace process.
And at 12:15 p.m. Eastern, President Obama holds a town hall meeting at a high school in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He's going to focus on credit card reform. The president, of course, pushing Congress to pass pending credit card legislation so that he can sign it into law by Memorial Day.
CHETRY: There you go. All right. Well, there are also some new details that are emerging now about the incredible pressure the Treasury Department put on the nation's biggest banks to use bailout money whether they needed it or not.
Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business." Fascinating to find out these details.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We got a bunch of these documents about freedom of information, request that Judicial Watch, a conservative legal watchdog put through, and they gave us these documents that show just what was happening behind the scenes in those crazy chaotic moments in October when the banks were told by the Treasury Department that they would have to accept government taxpayer money in exchange for a big stake in those banks. It's something that in the months that have passed, the American public has been outraged about all this money, that taxpayer money the banks have.
But what we know and what you can see from these documents is that, in fact, these banks were pressured -- given no choice, if you will, but to take government money, taxpayer money.
There's some CEO talking points prepared for then Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. And on those talking points for the CEOs, we don't believe it is tenable to opt out, the CEOs were to be told. And if the capital infusion is not appealing, you should be aware your regulator will require it in any circumstance.
Very strong, strong push from Treasury officials, also including the FDIC chief, Sheila Bair. Timothy Geithner was then the New York Fed chief, now runs the Treasury Department. Ben Bernanke, a lot of other people there.
But these talking points and then these after three and a half hours of meetings, very, very -- we can only imagine tense meetings there at the Treasury Department. These are the nine commitments that the banks signed.
Take a look at these for the money they were going to get. It's almost like a permission slip. They signed it...
CHETRY: It looks like signing a mortgage loan.
ROMANS: Right.
They put the name of their bank on there, how much money and taxpayer money they were going to take for a stake, and then signed.
ROBERTS: That's it, huh?
ROMANS: This is the genesis of all of that outrage of the bank bailout is just these four bullet points on a piece of paper that the bank CEOs signed very quickly on that afternoon.
ROBERTS: Like you said, it's like a note from the doctor this is why you were off school.
ROMANS: It really is. And it's -- another fascinating thing about these e-mails, they show some concern among Treasury Department staffers because the cameras have shown up, were staking out the CEOs who were arriving that day.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROMANS: Remember just how urgent and chaotic that day was? We have known for some time that it was likely the Treasury Department had really been pushing them to take the money. But now we have these documents that really show the banks were not given a choice. They were told -- the American government is taking a stake in you. Here, sign on the dotted line.
ROBERTS: I love reading this. It says issue preferred shares in the amount of -- and this just kind of written in -- $10 billion.
ROMANS: Yes, $10 million of your and my money just penciled in on a Monday afternoon.
CHETRY: This is Goldman Sachs.
ROBERTS: Writing the amount that you feel is necessary.
CHETRY: Exactly. All right. Well, you're doing some more digging on this.
ROMANS: Yes.
CHETRY: It's fascinating, I'm sure. We'll be talking about it.
Meanwhile, we unveil "Romans' Numeral." This is a number that really has, you know, some pertinence for the day and for what's going on and every day Christine is going to bring us one.
Today, tell us what it is. I'm excusing myself from guessing only because we talked about this story.
ROMANS: Yes, we did. CHETRY: John has been a good guesser, so let's see.
ROMANS: Six percent, and this has to do with stimulus and all the money.
ROBERTS: Six percent, let's see. That would be the amount of time that I spent asleep last night.
ROMANS: Yes, slightly more than me. Six percent of the money in that stimulus package has actually been paid out. It's some $40-some billion, $45 billion. And you can look at it today. Only six percent has been actually injected in the economy and paid out. Or you could say, wow, $45 billion is a lot of money that's been pushed in the economy. The government says we are on track, that the money is moving through. There are people who are going to get $250 Social Security checks in the mail.
I want to backtrack quickly about the story about the Treasury Department last fall and just say that the Treasury Department had no comment. They're looking forward. They're not looking back.
And Henry Paulson, we reached out to them. He said -- an associate of his said he does not talk from talking points. That was all they would say about it.
ROBERTS: There you go.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, six percent -- I mean, the whole point of this was to get the stimulus money out there fast to make a difference quickly.
ROMANS: It takes time. It takes time, but the administration says they're on schedule. But when you look at how much has been deployed, how much still has to be deployed, you know, it's getting out there. But --
ROBERTS: I just love the fact that you can pencil in $10 billion on your permission slip.
ROMANS: I know.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Christine.
ROMANS: Isn't it -- it just really illustrates the urgency and chaos of last fall, I think.
ROBERTS: Well, this country's past interrogation methods, some call it torture, some call it a necessary evil. But wait until you hear what a former federal agent who has gotten terrorists to talk has to say about the tactics.
And can the Republican Party be saved from itself? We'll talk with a former Bush speechwriter who says the GOP is now distinguished by a "driving desire to lose."
It's 19 minutes after the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Right now in Washington, the Bush administration's harsh interrogation techniques are under the microscope. Yesterday, the Senate launched an investigation into waterboarding and other methods. A former FBI agent who interrogated one of the first major al Qaeda prisoners testified and saying those tactics simply don't work.
Here's CNN's Dana Bash.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, President Obama has said he does not want congressional investigations into Bush-era harsh interrogation tactics to be a partisan affair. But that is what happened here on Capitol Hill, in part because of gripping testimony from somebody who used to be on the front line fighting terrorism now agrees with Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Behind this wall, identity hidden, a former FBI agent who personally interrogated top Al Qaeda operatives and says harsh tactics like waterboarding do not work.
ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI AGENT: These techniques from an operational perspective are slow, ineffective, unreliable.
BASH: In dramatic testimony, Ali Soufan said he got a treasure trove of useable intelligence from Abu Zubaydah, found out about 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed without using extreme tactics. But when his team was replaced with CIA contractors using harsh techniques, Abu Zubaydah shut down.
SOUFAN: Waterboarding itself had to be used 83 times, an indication that Abu Zubaydah had already called his interrogators' bluff. In contrast, when we interrogated him using intelligent interrogation methods, within the first hour, we gained important actionable intelligence.
BASH: Also testifying, Philip Zelikow, former counselor to Condoleezza Rice who criticized the tactics in an internal memo, which he says Bush officials tried to destroy.
PHILIP ZELIKOW, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT COUNSELOR: The U.S. government, over the past seven years, adopted an unprecedented program in American history of cruelly calculated, dehumanizing abuse and physical torment to extract information.
BASH: This was the first hearing on extreme tactics since the president released classified Bush-era interrogation memos, and it was partisan from the start.
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND: The lies are legion. President Bush told us America does not torture. BASH: Only one GOP senator asked questions, Lindsey Graham. He's a Republican who's been long opposed to harsh interrogation techniques but still hammered Democrats for holding a one-sided hearing.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I don't know whether this is actually pursuing the nobility of law or a political stunt.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Senator Graham said he does believe extreme tactics like waterboarding are immoral, but the decision to use them in the aftermath of 9/11 was not criminal.
But Democrats aren't done. The senator who chaired the hearing, Sheldon Whitehouse, said he hopes this is just the first in a series of hearings to look into what he called an avalanche of falsehoods from the Bush administration -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Dana Bash reporting for us this morning.
And coming up at our next hour, we're going to be speaking with Philip Zelikow, the top adviser to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. He had said the enhanced interrogation methods were a mistake and that both parties share some of the blame for them.
CHETRY: All right. Well, it's getting ugly inside the Republican Party. Leading GOP players are lobbing verbal bombshells at one another. A former Bush speechwriter tells us why he thinks his party is self-destructing.
And President Obama giving his first commencement address, but with the prestige comes some controversy. We're going to hear what the president had to say about the decision of this university to not give him an honorary degree.
It's 26 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
President Obama taking some time out of the schedule for the class of 2009. Last night, the president spoke to roughly 9,000 graduates and more than 60,000 spectators at Arizona State University.
And during his speech, he made light of why he though the university didn't think that he'd done enough to merit an honorary degree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I really thought this was much ado about nothing. But I do think we all learned an important lesson.
I learned never again to pick another team over the Sun Devils in my NCAA brackets. It won't happen again.
President Crow and the Board of Regents will soon learn about being audited by the IRS.
As you think about your life after graduation, as you look into the mirror tonight after the partying is done -- that shouldn't get such a big cheer. You may look in the mirror tonight and you may see somebody who's not really sure what to do with their lives.
That's what you may see. But a troubled child might look at you and see a mentor. A homebound senior citizen might see a lifeline. The folks at your local homeless shelter might see a friend.
None of them care how much money is in your bank account or whether you're important at work or whether you're famous around town. They just know that you're somebody who cares, somebody who makes a difference in their lives.
So class of 2009, that's what building a body of work is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Good speech.
CHETRY: It was a great speech. And...
ROBERTS: And what a dander-headed move to not give him an honorary degree.
CHETRY: Yes. He also took ground of that. Michelle Obama certainly had a long list of things she expects to him to continue doing and working on. And he did thank the university though. They named a financial aid program after him and he said...
ROBERTS: Nice recovery.
CHETRY: Hey...
ROBERTS: I mean, the NYU gave Hillary Clinton an honorary Doctorate of Laws, you know, at her commencement address. What were they thinking about? Obviously nothing. What are they teaching there at ASU?
CHETRY: Like I said, they named -- on the bright side, they named a financial aid program after him.
Well, it is now coming up on half past the hour. We check our top stories this morning.
The bad news could be in the mail today for thousands of Chrysler and GM dealers across the country. The struggling car makers will start sending notices telling dealers they're being dropped. Chrysler and General Motors planning to eliminate as many as 3,000 U.S. dealerships. The bodies of five soldiers killed in a combat stress clinic in Iraq are back in the U.S. this morning. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff was on hand for the sober and somber homecoming at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The families of three of the five victims allowed cameras to capture the formal military transfer.
And two American journalists accused of, quote, "hostile acts" will be tried by North Korea, June 4th. The two journalists, Laura Ling and Euna Lee, work for Al Gore's Current TV network. The secretive state took the pair into custody back in March near the North's border with China. They were reporting on refugees living in China at the time.
ROBERTS: Republican in-fighting is raising questions about the party's leadership and its political future. In a "Washington Post" op-ed piece, our next guest gives a brutally frank assessment of what he says is destroying his party. Michael Gerson, "Washington Post" columnist and former Bush speechwriter joins us now from Washington.
Michael, it's good to see you.
Let me quote a little bit from your op-ed yesterday.
MICHAEL GERSON, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Sure.
ROBERTS: It really caught my eye here. You say, quote, one of the two main American political parties -- or, "of the two main American political parties, Republicans are now clearly distinguished by their driving desire to lose. Every faction seems determined to rule the kingdom of irrelevance."
That sounds like something you would expect Howard Dean to say, not you.
GERSON: Well, it's unfortunately true. I mean, we had to some extent in the Republican Party a stress test recently. This National Council on America's future that a lot of prominent Republicans put together as a listening tour. And the reaction among the different interest groups in the Republican Party was revealing and disturbing.
Every single one of them felt slighted. Every one of them seemed to prefer purity over at a compelling message. And I think it was, you know, it reveals a party that's not yet ready to win. That has a lot of internal discussion to do before it prepares itself for this next season going into -- well, we have two gubernatorial elections, but then into 2010.
ROBERTS: Right. Yes. This is the National Council for a New America, includes Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Eric Cantor. They met at a pizza parlor in Arlington. Jeb Bush said he was dumbfounded by the reaction that conservatives had to this idea that they wanted to get out there and listen to people?
GERSON: Right. Well, literally, in some places, conservatives were arguing, why should we listen? And I talked to Jeb Bush about this. His general reaction is, well, maybe we should begin with a little humility.
ROBERTS: Yes.
GERSON: People are very interested in having their voices heard right now in the process, and that might be the beginning. Now, Republicans have been united in a certain way by a very aggressive Obama agenda, which they regard as adding to debt and adding to government power. But that's more of their unity of no, rather than kind of aggressive agenda that's going to do outreach to young people, or Hispanics, or college-educated voters. All of which the Republicans in the last election had massive problems.
ROBERTS: You know, I saw Lindsey Graham talking about this idea yesterday of listening versus not listening. And he sort of suggests that you reap what you sow.
He said that, I don't want to be a party of angry white guys sitting in the corner who nobody listens to.
GERSON: Yes.
ROBERTS: The Republican Party endanger of becoming that? If they don't listen to people out there, will anybody listen to them?
GERSON: Well, it's a danger of becoming that if they don't listen to people like Lindsey Graham. But this is a snapshot, not necessarily, a prophecy.
You know, all parties tend to go through this stage of infighting and everyone wants purity rather than victory. But, you know, it gets lonely in exile, and eventually people get more prepared to make those decisions they're necessary to win.
I think there are bunch of issues where Republicans are going to have to go through some fairly wrenching debates in the next two years to determine where they are on the environment, on health care, on immigration, in order to be a party that appeals beyond that base of the party and to a much broader electorate.
ROBERTS: All right. If you look at the Republican Party, historically, a lot of people saying they're not in as bad shape now as they were back in the late 1970s in the last couple of years of the Carter administration. And nobody knew where thing were going to go. And then suddenly this, this towering figure of Ronald Reagan comes along and leads the party through 12 years of power in the White House.
Is there a potential -- I don't want to say Ronald Reagan, but a Ronald Reagan-like figure out there who will lead the party back to power in 2012.
GERSON: Well, a great candidate always helps?
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: You got a great candidate somewhere? GERSON: Well, you know, you don't know at this point. I mean, there are bright stars. There are people like Bobby Jindal that I think, you know, is a serious policy guy. He's an interesting guy.
ROBERTS: Can you see the guy do it?
GERSON: Could be.
Jeb Bush, himself, is an interesting voice, you know, with both the advantages and the drawbacks.
ROBERTS: Another Bush in the White House?
GERSON: You know, I think there are both advantages and drawbacks there. You know? But you don't know in seven years. I mean, it's hard to tell. But you need a good candidate. But also need a foundation of ideas that are compelling to a broad variety of Americans. That's the work you can do now. You can't force that other part.
ROBERTS: Was that a Freudian -- was that a Freudian slip? You just said you don't know in seven years? You're giving Obama a second term?
GERSON: Well, I think for many of these cabinets, I'm not sure they're going to run in three or four years. But that depends on what the economy does in many ways. If we have a significant rebound, it's going to be a tough cycle.
ROBERTS: All right. Michael Gerson, it's always great to catch up with you. Thanks very much.
GERSON: Great. Thank you.
ROBERTS: All right.
CHETRY: Well, we will hear the parent of a teenager.
You want to hear this.
There are new concerns this morning that today's marijuana is much more dangerous than the pot that was smoked back in the Woodstock era. We're going to have more on how they figure this out, and just how much stronger it actually may be.
Plus, she publicly humiliated author James Frey for lying in his book. Well, now, Oprah Winfrey is apologizing, and she wants him back on her show. We'll tell you why.
It's 37 minutes past the hour.
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JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Governor Schwarzenegger said he's trying to get marijuana legalized here in California. He wants to legalize it.
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I believe the campaign slogan is "Change we can breathe in." "Yes, change we can breathe in."
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CHETRY: Well, late night having some fun with the debate over legalizing marijuana, but Washington taking the drug very seriously. It's because pot is by far one of the most abused drugs in America and today, it's even more potent than ever.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, this is a Mississippi marijuana grow room, and it is all absolutely legal.
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MESERVE (voice-over): In a vault -- barrel upon barrel of high- grade marijuana.
(on camera): What would the street value of this be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot.
MESERVE (voice-over): This facility at the University of Mississippi is the only one in the country licensed by the federal government to grow large quantities of marijuana for research.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the female flowering buds.
MESERVE: But that isn't all scientists do here. Marijuana samples from seizures all across the country, thousands of them, are sent here every year.
The dope is put through a sieve to remove seeds and stems. It's weighed to put in solution and chemically analyzed. The results, today, the government is announcing that for the first time ever, the average level of THC, the psychoactive ingredient of marijuana now exceeds 10 percent. The lab has found some samples higher than 30 percent.
That means it takes less dope to get high. Experienced users may adjust their intake and smoke less, but inexperienced users may not.
MAHMOUD ELSOHLY, UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI POTENCY MONITORING PROJECT: They'll get paranoid. They'll be irritable. And that's just the opposite of what they were looking for.
MESERVE: The government says high-potency marijuana is sending more people to the emergency room and to drug treatments, but will kids listen? DR. LAWRENCE BRAIN, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: Telling them that, you know, 10 percent, and three times more potent than what their parents smoked is not an argument that they'll likely to buy into or to even utilize in any constructive sort of way.
MESERVE: In fact, researchers say after years of decline, there's been a recent uptick in marijuana use.
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MESERVE: Scientists here predict the average potency of marijuana will go up another five percent in the next five to 10 years as growers become even more sophisticated.
John and Kiran, back to you.
ROBERTS: Jeanne Meserve for us this morning.
Jeanne, thanks so much.
Oprah's dramatic apology. First, she trashed a best-selling author. Now hear why she's saying, I'm sorry to James Frey, the guy that she broke into a million little pieces.
And former Vice President Cheney's knock on the Obama administration for cracking down on top anti-terror policies continues to light up our show hotline. Critics and supporters sounding off at 877-MY-AMFIX.
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CALLER: Dick Cheney is a patriot. And I think that whenever we have another 9/11, we all know that the Bush administration did the right thing.
CALLER: Dick Cheney said he was real American. If he was really patriot, he would shut his mouth and go away. And hope that he didn't end up in jail.
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ROBERTS: A note from Oprah Winfrey, or rather a nod from Oprah Winfrey sent James Frey's book into the stratosphere, but then it all broke into a million little pieces. Oprah tore the author a new -- whoa. Well, he fabricated large parts of his memoir and she ripped him something. I'm not quite sure what.
Now, three years after shaming him on her talk show, Oprah is reaching out and apologizing.
Out Carol Costello has got that story from Washington this morning.
Good morning, Carol. CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I wanted you to say it, because it was really uncomfortable watching.
I mean, who can forget that memorable "Oprah Winfrey" show from January 2006 when Oprah lashed in to author James Frey for lying to her and all of his readers about his memoir of addiction and recovery entitled "A Million Little Pieces."
The public smackdown made for some in-your-seat television viewing as Oprah grilled Frey point-by-point on detail from his book.
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OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": It is difficult for me to talk to you, because I really feel duped. I feel duped. But more importantly, I feel that you betrayed millions of readers.
JAMES FREY, AUTHOR, "A MILLION LITTLE PIECES": Since that time, I've struggled with the idea of it and...
WINFREY: No, the lie of it. That's a lie. It's not an idea, James. That's a lie.
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COSTELLO: Smackdown. Frey said in an interview last year that in the aftermath of the scandal, he felt like a pariah dumped by the book world and his friends.
Well, surprise, surprise. In an exclusive item posted on "VanityFair.Com," which we confirmed with the spokesperson for Oprah, the talk show host called James Frey last fall and apologized to him for berating him on her show. According to VanityFair.com, Oprah -- and according to this article -- Oprah explained to Frey, she, "Had an epiphany of sorts while meditating that morning, and it was time to apologize for what she put him through on that fateful day."
Frey described getting that call as a nice surprise, and he told the magazine he certainly appreciated it. The "Oprah Winfrey Show" even invited Frey back on the program when his latest book was published. But for unknown reasons, that reunion did not happen.
But, you know, I guess, Oprah felt bad about doing that to him publicly. She called him. She said she was sorry. And, who knows? Maybe they'll have a reunion on her show one day, but not yet.
ROBERTS: Interesting that she had that change of heart, because definitely he definitely duped her and anybody who read that book.
COSTELLO: Well, she said she took it too personally. She berated him, because she felt personally betrayed, and she didn't think that was really the right thing to do.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, we'll see where it goes from here. Carol Costello this morning.
Carol, thanks. Interesting story.
CHETRY: Well, from Nancy Pelosi and Newt Gingrich, we're testing the claims of some high-profile politicians today. We bring out the truth-o-meter and Bill Adair. We're not letting anybody get away with anything this morning.
Also, as Harris been the butt of jokes, but now is the inspiration for a new hair product. We're talking about Illinois governor -- former disgraced Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.
Jeanne Moos is taking a look at Blago.
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LENO: It was so blatant how he was selling the seat. Did you see the footage? It was so blatant. Take a look.
We have a Senate sit up for sale. Formerly Barack Obama Senate seat. Obama, Obama, Obama. (INAUDIBLE). I'll hold the bidding up there at $100,000, $115,000, $125,000.
$125,000, sold!
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CHETRY: All right. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
That was Jay Leno with a classic late-night laugh at the height of the Rod Blagojevich scandal. The disgraced former Illinois governor's hair has also provided a wealth of material for comedians. Well, there's a shampoo company looking to cash in on his unique style.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now, you, too, can have hair like this man, introducing Blago Volumizing Shampoo and Conditioner for really big hair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It smells clean. It smells like peaches.
MOOS: You may quibble about the style of former Governor Rod Blagojevich's hair...
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MOOS: ...but you can't boo the quality, celebrated even in song.
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MOOS: Seeing that luscious hair in the news took root in the mind of this shampoo manufacturer.
DENNIS FATH, CREATOR OF BLAGO SHAMPOO: I literally woke up in the middle of the night and thought we should do a shampoo for big hair.
MOOS: Blago Shampoo's slogan...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's (BLEEPING) golden.
MOOS: ...is taken from the former governor's own tape recorded words. And the shampoo is golden. Sure, it sounds like a joke. And on Chicago's WLS, "The Don & Roma Show" treated it as one.
DON WADE, HOST, WLS 890 AM: I laughed at first, but then I decided I'm going to give this stuff a try.
MOOS: Don's before and after picture.
WADE: I felt like Elvis.
MOOS: But we decided to give Blago a real workout on a volunteer guinea pig.
MATT HARVEY, RANDOM GUINEA PIG: Oh, I loved his hair. I've always wanted to have his identical hairstyle.
MOOS: The president of Delta Laboratories says Blago has vitamins, botanical extracts and proteins to make the hair look and feel thicker.
(on camera): Have you tried the product yourself?
You look like you could use a little volumizing.
FATH: Well, I -- (LAUGHTER).
Thanks. I did use it, this morning, actually. So I guess that's not a good testimony. It's not going to work miracles.
MOOS (voice-over): Don't tell Matt Harvey that. After Bertha shampooed, conditioned and blow dried his hair.
HARVEY: My hair feels more full. It really does.
MOOS (on camera): For now, Blago Shampoo is available only on the Web at Blagohair.com. It sells for eight bucks a bottle.
HARVEY: I think I would run for governor now.
MOOS (voice-over): Though the blow dried styling may have helped, behold the before Blago and after Blago photos. And no one even had to bribe our guinea pig to get him to say Blago worked.
Jeanne Moos, CNN...
HARVEY: Oh, yes. You are ready to be governor.
MOOS: ...New York.
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ROBERTS: It makes your hair stand up on end...
CHETRY: How about it?
ROBERTS: ...just like everything that he said.
CHETRY: Yes, exactly. Bleeping golden.
ROBERTS: There you are.
We're checking the claims of some high-profile politicians this morning. We've got the truth-o-meter fired up. From Nancy Pelosi to Newt Gingrich. Can you believe what you've been hearing them say? We'll find out.
It's 55 minutes now after the hour.
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CHETRY: Now we don't want any lies here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Welcome back.
Republican Senator Lindsay Graham is questioning House Speaker Nancy Pelosi about what she knew about the Bush interrogation tactics and when. She's even threatened to call her to testify before the Senate committee to get to the truth.
But we're doing it right here for you this morning. The Truth-o- Meter. Another edition of that with Bill Adair. The editor of the Pulitzer prize-winning Politifact.com.
Bill, thanks for being with us this morning.
BILL ADAIR, FOUNDER, POLITIFACT.COM: Thanks for having me. I love the song.
CHETRY: Thank you.
We have our own personal DJ as well here on the show. It's just an added bonus for you.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi vigorously -- I mean, vigorously denied knowing anything about certain interrogation methods. In fact, here's what she said last month.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We were not -- I repeat, we're not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used.
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CHETRY: There you have it. So Republicans are now having a field day with that. They claim that she was briefed on interrogation in 2002 when she was a ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.
So what does the truth-o-meter say about Nancy Pelosi's claims that she was not brief?
ADAIR: We gave her a false on the truth-o-meter on that. And the reason is that she has contradicted by a CIA timeline that is very specific that indeed the congressional leadership was told that enhanced interrogation techniques were used. And that has backed up by Porter Goss who was a Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and then became the head of the CIA. And so the evidence is pretty convincing that they were told. And so, we gave her a false for this one.
CHETRY: And you had talked about this in your pre-interview a little bit. Not likely to get into the he said/she said, which is what's been going on with them. But when you were able to point out a false like this, what does it do, you know, to the credibility of the people that you're sort of fact checking here, like Speaker Pelosi's claim that she didn't know about this?
ADAIR: Well, I think that's up to the voters to decide. Obviously, everybody we checked developed sort of a career record on PoliticoFact. People can look and see, you know, so many things we've rated for Nancy Pelosi are true. There are few that are false. But I think the bigger issue is sort of over time people can get a sense of how often someone is true and how often they're not through our research.
CHETRY: That's a good point as well.
All right. Let's get to Newt Gingrich. He is weighing in right now on the debate over interrogation techniques under the Bush administration as well. In a TV interview he said, quote, "Democrats in Congress had control since January of 2007. They haven't passed a law making waterboarding illegal. They haven't gone into any of these things and change the law."
What does your truth-o-meter say about whether or not Democrats tried to change the law on interrogation methods?
ADAIR: He got a barely true on the truth-o-meter. And there's a grain of truth in what he says in the sense that ultimately the law did not -- was not enacted. But the Democratic Congress did pass a law that would do that. It would put U.S. agents under the army field manual, which prohibits waterboarding. But President Bush vetoed that bill. So Gingrich is being misleading here by saying that they didn't pass it. They did. It just happened to be vetoed. So he gets a barely true.
CHETRY: Wow. All right. Good thing you guys are around. People are just throwing out these statements like they're fact.
Bill Adair, editor and founder of PolitiFact.com.
And people can go check on a couple of the other interesting ones, even including one about the health care system.
Thanks for being with us, Bill.
ADAIR: Thanks, Kiran.
