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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama's Terror Tribunals; Pelosi under Fire; Rights under Fire; California in Trouble; Dangerous Deal; A Deal for Illegal Aliens
Aired May 15, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening everybody.
President Obama changing his position on another major national security issue, angering some liberals and left-wing groups for a second time this week -- President Obama today deciding to bring back Bush-era military tribunals for trials of suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay.
Also President Obama, CIA Director Leon Panetta criticizing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's account of what she knew and when about waterboarding -- Panetta declaring the CIA does not mislead Congress. That one day after the speaker accused the CIA of lying.
And chaos and outrage in California as Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger struggles to tackle that state's massive budget deficit once again. The governor is now even considering a fire sale of some of California's most famous landmarks.
We begin tonight with the president's controversial decision to reinstate military tribunals. President Obama announced that military tribunals will resume trials for some terrorist suspects, but only after the tribunal system has been reformed.
President Obama declared that system, introduced by President Bush, failed to establish what he called a legitimate legal framework. Liberal and left-wing groups immediately accusing President Obama of reversing himself on what had been a major campaign promise.
Earlier this week, the White House reversed course on another national security issue, deciding to block the release of those photographs of alleged detainee abuse. Ed Henry has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president found time to go in front of the cameras to pat a baseball team on the back.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congratulations to the world champion Philadelphia Phillies.
(APPLAUSE)
HENRY: But he did not face the cameras to explain a controversial move, restarting the Bush administration's military commissions to bring Guantanamo suspects to trial. Instead, Mr. Obama released a written statement, a sharp contrast to his first week on the job when he publicly signed executive orders to suspend the commissions, close down Guantanamo, and ban alleged torture.
OBAMA: We are not, as I said in the inauguration, going to continue with a false choice between our safety and our ideals.
HENRY: Liberal groups like the ACLU got the impression Mr. Obama was going to turn the page on the Bush years. So they blasted the decision, as did a military attorney for one of the detainees.
MAJOR JON JACKSON, DETAINEE ATTORNEY: I'm shocked and disappointed. I think this is an opportunity that the administration, the new administration, has missed to show the world that we really do stand for the rule of law.
HENRY: White House spokesman Robert Gibbs rejected the criticism noting the president's approach will give new rights to detainees, including statements obtained through enhanced interrogation techniques will not be allowed at trial. Use of hearsay will be limited. And the accused will have greater latitude in choosing counsel.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, look, first and foremost, the president of the United States is going to do what he believes is in the best security interests of the people of the United States.
HENRY: The president's former Republican rival John McCain praised him for finding a good balance. Today's announcement is a step, but only a step, toward a comprehensive detainee policy that will deal with the detainees held at Guantanamo and elsewhere in a fashion that both accords with our values and protects our national security.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: While the president did not face the cameras today, White House aides say he's planning a major speech next Thursday where he'll lay out some of the details of this, which is important, because right now we don't really know a lot of the details about how this will actually work, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Ed. Thank you very much -- Ed Henry from the White House.
The United States today released a Guantanamo Bay detainee and flew him to France. The detainee was at the center of a Supreme Court battle over whether prisoners have the right to challenge their detention in U.S. courts. The detainee, an Algerian citizen, had been in custody for nearly eight years. France agreed to accept him because he has relatives living in France.
CIA Director Leon Panetta today blasted House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's account of what she knew and when about waterboarding. Panetta contradicted outright the speaker's assertion that she was not told the CIA was using waterboarding when she was briefed on interrogation techniques in September of 2002.
Panetta also disputed Pelosi's declaration that the CIA misled Congress. In a memo to CIA employees Panetta said quote, "Let me be clear, it is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress. That is against our laws and our values."
Tonight, Speaker Pelosi responding to memo -- she said her criticism of the Bush administration is separate from what she called her respect for members of the intelligence community. Congressional Republicans are maintaining a barrage of criticism against Speaker Pelosi.
Senator Kit Bond, the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, today declared, it's outrageous that a member of Congress would call our terror fighters liars. Dana Bash has our report from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has learned that in this secure capital location sit newly delivered, highly classified notes from Nancy Pelosi's September 2002 CIA briefing. The speaker wants the notes declassified, because she says they prove she was not told that harsh techniques like waterboarding were used.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed.
BASH: But the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee has now read the classified notes from that briefing and insists to CNN she's wrong. The record shows Speaker Pelosi was briefed that the techniques were used on Abu Zubaydah, Senator Kit Bond said in a statement.
That appears to back up CIA records declassified last week, which say on September 4th, 2002, Pelosi and Republican Porter Goss (ph) were briefed on so-called enhanced interrogation techniques, or EITs, including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background authority, and description of the particular EITs that had been employed. Abu Zubaydah had been water-boarded 83 times a month earlier.
Amid the confusion and contradiction about what Congress was really told, what has emerged is a remarkably partisan divide among lawmakers who were briefed. In the Senate, Republican Richard Shelby and Democrat Bob Graham also attended a September 2002 CIA briefing. They were together, but have very different accounts.
Through a spokesman, Shelby says CIA officials gave them a full account of harsh techniques and they also described the need for these techniques and the value of the information being obtained from terrorists during questioning. But Graham insists they were told nothing about waterboarding or other harsh tactics.
BOB GRAHAM (D), FORMER SEN. INTEL. CHAIRMAN: The briefing was done at a relatively low-level of classification and did not get into these more sensitive areas of torture or the application of techniques to specific detainees.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, there are apparently no verbatim transcripts of these 2002 classified briefings, and some sources familiar with the notes taken say they are ambiguous. So even if they are declassified, it may not clear up the very stark differences, Lou, between Democrats and Republicans, what they're telling us about what they recall being told about these tactics like waterboarding.
DOBBS: And foursquare (ph) and at the front is Speaker Pelosi, Dana. She is the entire focus right now as to what she knew and when and whether or not she is outright lying or whether she is being absolutely accurate. That still remains the central issue and still far from resolution.
BASH: That's right. It is far from resolution. And that is why it so is interesting that we were told that the notes from this meeting, which she says and she insists will clear it up in her favor, apparently are ambiguous. And it is really unclear, still by the way, regardless of that, whether or not they'll be declassified.
DOBBS: Right.
BASH: So you know it's going to be very hard to tell who's right in this situation, especially since we have Republicans and Democrats in the very same briefing saying such different things, Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thanks so much -- Dana Bash from Washington.
Democrats tonight are facing strong and rising opposition to proposals to limit Americans' right to keep and bear arms. More than 50,000 gun owners attending the National Rifle Association's annual convention in Phoenix, which began today. Those gun owners are increasingly confident they will block the administration's efforts to restrict their Second Amendment rights. Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Now that Democrats control Washington, you would think gun control advocates would be celebrating. But they're not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the right term is we're frustrated.
SCHNEIDER: Just this week, the Senate voted 67-29 to allow visitors to national parks to carry concealed weapons. In February, the new attorney general said...
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: There are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons.
SCHNEIDER: The response? WAYNE LAPIERRE, NRA EXEC. VICE PRES.: That 65 Democrats wrote Attorney General Holder after he said he wanted to send that phony assault weapons ban back up on Capitol Hill and said don't send this phony stuff up here, you ought to be enforcing the laws you have.
SCHNEIDER: Mr. Holder this week.
HOLDER: We want to enforce the laws that we have on the books.
SCHNEIDER: Why isn't gun control advancing? The election rallied gun owners.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've seen an increase in gun sales. You know there's actually people coming through the door, ticket sales at the gun shows, since October. Beginning of October, I think people saw the writing on the wall.
SCHNEIDER: Democrats have been making gains in a lot of conservative areas, where gun owners are a powerful force to defend the Second Amendment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've proven over and over and over again, election time, they'll go to the polls and defend it against politicians that try to take it away from them.
SCHNEIDER: What do Democratic legislators have to fear -- fear itself.
DENNIS HENIGAN, BRADY CAMP. TO PREV. GUN VIOLENCE: It's all about generating fear among gun owners that somehow President Obama and the federal government are coming after their guns.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): The Democratic Party has been growing and when a party is growing what does it need -- a bigger tent.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Important new developments tonight in the worsening swine flu outbreak in New York and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger plans even more desperate measures to tackle California's worsening and huge budget deficit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: California tonight on the verge of economic chaos. Governor Schwarzenegger plans deep cuts in that state's budget. There is outrage at the governor's proposal to sell off some state landmarks including the Los Angeles -- Los Angeles Coliseum site of the 1984 Summer Olympics. County officials say the governor can't sell that coliseum because the state doesn't own it. There is also outrage that the state schools could lose billions of dollars and thousands of teachers' jobs -- Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dozens of Los Angeles teachers were arrested Friday, while protesting the threat of tens of thousands of education layoffs because of the state's budget deficit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, hey, reform in L.A.
WIAN: Parents also held a rally while the governor was receiving an honorary degree from USC.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: Arnold Schwarzenegger, doctor of humane letters.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWARZENEGGER: I love it.
WIAN: He plans to cut at least $3 billion from public schools or 5.4 billion if voters reject a package of budget reform measures Tuesday. Other proposals include a seven and a half day reduction in the school year and larger class sizes.
CHRISTINA BYNUM, PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER: We just really feel that this is an injustice to the kids, to society, really.
WIAN: Also on the table withholding $2 billion from local governments and dramatic reductions in social services including cutting off nearly a quarter of a million children from state-funded health insurance and eliminating drug treatment programs.
SCHWARZENEGGER: I understand that these cuts are very painful, and they affect real lives. This is the harsh reality in the crisis that we face.
WIAN: But critics say some of the governor's plans are not based in reality such as selling off state assets, including the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Local officials say the state doesn't have the authority to sell the stadium and because it's a historic monument, the governor has exaggerated its monetary value.
ZEV YAROSLAVSKY, L.A. COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: I think somebody up in Sacramento decided that the way to generate support for the ballot measures on next Tuesday's ballot was to scare the hell out of the voters. And instead of scaring the hell out of the voters, I think they're angering the voters.
WIAN: Tax increases also are part of the plan.
JON COUPAL, HOWARD JARVIS TAXPAYERS ASSN.: If the polls are correct and these packages -- this package of reforms goes down in a big way, maybe that will be the two by four up side the head that will finally get these people to recognize voters are taxed to death, highest taxes in America, poor level of service, they've got to start taking care of the state's business.
WIAN: Schwarzenegger plans to ask the Obama administration for a waiver allowing deep spending cuts without jeopardizing federal stimulus money.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: California is banking on $31 billion from the federal government to help solve its financial crisis. Part of the governor's plan includes shifting tens of thousands of illegal alien inmates from state to federal custody. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says it would be inappropriate to speculate about the governor's future actions. Lou?
DOBBS: Is it appropriate to speculate about what will happen to that $7 billion in stimulus money if the state does not rescind the cuts to the wages of the state health care workers who are members of the service employees union? That is the threat of course from the Obama administration.
WIAN: And that's up to the Obama administration, and who knows, it could be ultimately settled by the courts. Governor Schwarzenegger says he's going to apply for a waiver of those federal restrictions. We're just going to have to see how the administration responds, Lou.
DOBBS: All right, Casey, thank you very much -- Casey Wian from Los Angeles.
General Motors saying it will close 1,100 of its dealerships. GM saying this is the first step in cutting its retail operations. General Motors right now has about 6,000 dealerships. Chrysler said yesterday it's dropping 800 of its dealers. The National Automobile Dealers of America estimates that those dealership cuts at General Motors and Chrysler will ultimately cost 140,000 jobs.
President Obama today announced one new job. He selected New York City's health commissioner, Dr. Thomas Friedan (ph) to lead the Centers for Disease Control. Dr. Friedan (ph) is an expert in infectious diseases. He's been New York's health commissioner since 2002. His appointment comes amid new concerns about the spreading swine flu outbreak all across this country and around the world.
New York tonight is taking new measures, trying to control the spread of the swine flu outbreak. The city today closed another three schools, making six in all. One assistant principal tonight remains critically ill. Five people in this country have died since the outbreak began. Two deaths have been reported over the past 24 hours, one in Texas, one in Arizona. All, we're told, had underlying health problems.
A tape of a man being tortured leads to new demands to kill a nuclear deal with the United Arab Emirates and an explosion at a Texas trucking company sends an oil storage tank soaring, scattering flaming debris.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More members of Congress are outraged over a deal to give the United Arab Emirates U.S. nuclear technology. Opposition to the deal has risen since a release of video images showing a member of the Emirates royal family torturing a man. Horrific images from that video were played on Capitol Hill. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some of the images so disturbing and violent participants in the hearing often had to turn and look away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(SOUNDS)
PILGRIM: Sheikh Issa Ben Zay al Nyam (ph), a member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi stomping on a victim's head, shocking him with a cattle prod. The victim held in a pigeon coop on Sheikh Issa's (ph) ranch.
REP. JAMES MCGOVERN (D), CHMN., HUMAN RIGHTS COMM.: Torture is not some abstract concept. It is real. It is horrifying.
PILGRIM: The Abu Dhabi government has issued a statement saying it unequivocally condemns the actions shown on the video, promising a full investigation, and to make the findings public. Members of Congress questioned how the U.S. can sign sensitive nuclear agreements with a country that tolerates this.
REP. DONNA EDWARDS (D), MARYLAND: There's an obligation that we have that's a higher standard than a commercial relationship or a defense relationship or a cooperative relationship around nuclear or other technologies.
PILGRIM: Some members of Congress question the nuclear cooperation agreement signed in the last days of the Bush administration that would share U.S. nuclear technology with the United Arab Emirates. The initial concern was the fear of transshipment of nuclear technology from the port of Dubai to Iran. Henry Sokolski of the Non-Proliferation Policy Education Center, a nonprofit think tank...
HENRY SOKOLSKI, NON-PROLIFERATION POLICY CTR.: But I think what's happened with this news about torture and acting outside of any rule of law is the question of trust, of whether or not UAE's pledges not to make nuclear fuel can be really trusted or relied upon.
PILGRIM: The U.S. State Department says it was aware of the torture case in 2008 before the nuclear deal was signed. It still must be ratified by Congress.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now Congressman Ed Markey (ph) of Massachusetts released a statement saying, I have repeatedly urged President Obama not to submit this nuclear cooperation agreement to Congress for approval and I hope the UAE torture tapes will convince the president that the UAE is not an appropriate place to send sensitive U.S. nuclear technology. Lou? DOBBS: What moron would have thought it was in the first place. We are looking at videotaped images that are revolting. But everyone knows what the Emirates is. They know precisely these issues between Iran and the Emirates and anything -- anyone who denies that this government knew less is a liar.
PILGRIM: Lou, you know the White House and the State Department still haven't made the statement that they won't pursue this. They say they don't have a firm deadline about sending this to Congress. They're consulting with Congress. But they have not said that they won't do this deal.
DOBBS: The congresswoman uttered complete heresy, suggesting that there is anything more important than a commercial relationship. God bless her for doing so. It's about time the people who associate in that chamber with her in the House of Representatives remembered exactly the same thing. Thank you very much -- appreciate it -- Kitty Pilgrim.
Other stories we're following tonight -- in Texas, lightning struck a trucking company which sent an oil tank flying through the air. Firefighters from two towns were battling that fire when it flared up and the explosions resulted. Unbelievably, no one was injured.
In Indiana tonight, dramatic new pictures of dangerous floods carrying away an SUV. Fire crews managed to pull the driver out of the SUV just moments before the current swept it downstream. The SUV flipped several times before coming to a stop more than 300 feet away.
Astronauts aboard the shuttle Atlantis completing their second spacewalk in two days, the top priority of today's spacewalk to replace the Hubble's gyroscopes, three more spacewalks are planned for this mission to rescue and repair the Hubble telescope.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid killing a nuclear waste project that has never been used and which so far has cost taxpayers $10 billion and an illegal immigrant is charged with killing a 4-year-old girl in an accident that never should have happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: There's evidence tonight that the number of people trying to enter the United States illegally from Mexico is declining. That's according to data from the Mexican Government Census Bureau. It shows about 25 percent decline over the past year -- that according to published reports. The numbers include both legal and illegal immigrants.
The recession is cited as a key reason for what the government of Mexico maintains is a slow-down. Immigration researchers here say several hundred thousand illegal aliens a year still cross our borders. There are between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens in the United States. The U.S. Census Bureau reports a slow-down in the growth of the Hispanic immigrant population as well. Hispanic growth slowed to just over three percent last year from four percent in 2001.
Lawmakers, federal lawmakers, are trying to revive the so-called AGJOBS (ph) Act. AGJOBS (ph) would provide amnesty for more than a million illegal alien farm workers. Many say the AGJOBS (ph) Bill would reward people who have broken our immigration laws. AGJOBS (ph) is backed of course by big agriculture, big agricultural lobbyists, and other special interest groups. The move comes at a time when millions of Americans are out of work, the nation's unemployment rate has risen to a 25-year high. Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Farm workers in the United States illegally would be put on a path to citizenship under a bill known as AGJOBS (ph). The bill could grant some 1.5 million foreign workers and their families legal status. Senator Dianne Feinstein says the legislation is necessary because there are not enough American workers willing to harvest crops.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: With an inadequate supply of workers, farmers from Maine to California, from Washington State to Georgia, have watched their produce rot in the fields have been forced to follow (ph) close to a half a million acres of land.
SYLVESTER: The foreign workers would have to pay a fine of $500 and meet other requirements like having no major felonies. Republican critics blast AGJOBS (ph), saying it rewards people who broke U.S. immigration laws and calling it earned legalization isn't enough to earn Representative Marsha Blackburn's support.
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: This is basically amnesty for those farm workers who are in the United States and who are working here.
SYLVESTER: Agricultural workers can apply for a so-called "blue card" if they can demonstrate they have worked in the United States at least five months in 2006 or 2007. They then have to work another 150 days during a three-year period or 100 work days per year for five years. Then they can apply for a green card. Sounds complicated -- it is says NumbersUSA, a group which favors restrictions on immigration and predicts U.S. citizenship and immigration services will not be able to handle the onslaught of applications.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERSUSA: There is absolutely no way that that agency can monitor effectively the claims being made in the applications and ensure that there isn't fraud.
SYLVESTER: AG jobs has been introduced in previous sessions of Congress, either as a standalone bill, or part of comprehensive immigration reform. And each time, it has not gotten through.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And one reason is that there already exists a program that allows in an unlimited number of foreign agricultural workers, it's called the H-2A Guest Worker Program. Last year 173,000 H-2A workers were admitted into the United States, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. And a very important reminder to all of those folks in the United States Senate and the Congress that the rhetoric of the advocates who choose to deny or to ignore the fact that we already have guest worker programs in this country that is available to big agriculture, is simply what it -- it's simply a lie. Thank you very much, Lisa Sylvester, great reporting.
An illegal alien, tonight, is in a Nebraska jail, held on $1 million bail. He's accused of causing a car crash that took the life of a 4-year-old girl. The illegal alien has four prior DUI convictions; his driver's license had been previously suspended. Many who are horrified by this tragedy want to know simply why the driver had not been deported. Bill Tucker has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 4-year-old Omaha, Nebraska, girl is dead and a community is torn between pain and outrage. Josie Bluhm died when her mother's van was hit by a truck driven by this man, Eleazar Rangel-Ochoa, when he allegedly ran a red light on his way to work. It was an accident that many say never should have happened. Ochoa's lawyer admits his client has four DUI convictions, has served time in jail for two of those convictions, and was driving on a suspended license at the time of the accident. He also acknowledges his client has been in this country illegally for 14 years.
The Federation of Americans for Immigration Reform, which supports stricter enforcement of immigration laws, is outraged that given his record, Ochoa was never deported, but instead he kept slipping through cracks in the legal system.
DAN STEIN, FEDERATION FOR AMER IMMIG REFORM: This case is a perfect illustration why state and local police and agencies of the local level need to have agreements with ICE, with the DHS enforcement authorities, so that people who are here illegally are apprehended and removed.
TUCKER: Local immigration and customs enforcement officials say they were never notified of Ochoa's presence until this week, despite his past encounters with local police. The Omaha police said they never notified ICE because they had no reason to suspect Ochoa's immigration status was illegal. ICE now is in detainer on Ochoa so that if or when he's released by local police he will be handed over to federal authorities.
Ochoa appeared in court on Friday and was charged with a felony for driving with a suspended license and a misdemeanor for motor vehicle homicide. He pleaded not guilty to both charges. His lawyer offered this statement.
JOSEPH LOPEZ-WILSON, OCHOA'S ATTY: My client is really devastated by this situation, a very unfortunate incident. He is not a father, but he's not young family members. He's totally devastated by it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Ochoa faces up to five years on the charge of driving on a suspended license and up to one year, oddly, on the charge of the misdemeanor motor vehicle homicide charge. And as you mentioned, Lou, $1 million bail was set in court today.
DOBBS: Well, thank you very much. Bill Tucker.
Well, we'd like to know what you think about this. Our poll question tonight is: Should immigration status checks be routine? With every arrest in this country? Yes or no, cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
Speaker Pelosi against the CIA. It's a showdown that may lead to a change in her status.
And billions of taxpayer dollars spent on a nuclear waste facility, it's never been and likely never will be used.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: There are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States. The nuclear waste from those plants is supposed to be sent to Yucca Mountain, a remote mountain cave in Nevada for that purpose, but for decades, politics has kept that facility from ever being used and President Obama is preparing to continue the trend. Now the Yucca Mountain cave, something taxpayers paid for, it is nothing but a money pit. Drew Griffin, from CNN's Special Investigations Unit, has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVEST UNIT, (voice-over): Taxpayers have pumped $10 billion into this engineering marvel, a five-mile tunnel dug deep into a mountain. It's been studied endlessly by the scientists who have for decades come to the conclusion this mountain is the solution to the nation's nuclear waste problem.
But with very little fanfare, President Obama has submitted a budget that basically eliminates it. Why? In a word, politics. Yucca Mountain is in Nevada, the senate majority leader Harry Reid is from Nevada, and Harry Reid doesn't want your nuclear waste. And the group that calls itself America's No. 1 taxpayer watchdog, isn't happy.
TOM SCHATZ, CITIZENS AGAINST GOVT WASTE: This decision is purely about politics. There's no practical reason to make this decision. Yucca Mountain has been studied. It's the safest place that there is in the United States to store this nuclear waste, and there is no current alternative.
GRIFFIN: The president's alternative is to appoint a blue ribbon panel, basically starting from scratch after decades of work.
(on camera): Here's the problem: Two federal laws and billions in taxpayer dollars. Since 1982, it was federal law that the government would take over all the nuclear waste from these nuclear power plants. Since 1987, it was federal law that that waste would go to Yucca Mountain. And all that time, if you've been getting your energy from one of these, you've been paying taxes to support it. With one stroke of the pen, two federal laws and all those taxes are gone.
(voice-over): Carrie Phillips is public affairs manager at the Southern Company's Vogel nuclear plant in eastern Georgia where they have been storing waste that was supposed to go to Yucca Mountain temporarily now for 22 years.
CARRIE PHILLIPS, SOUTHERN COMPANY: I think it's discouraging and it's frustrating for the industry. We've been through eight administrations, five presidents, as they've kind of shifted policy on Yucca.
GRIFFIN: One person who doesn't seem too concerned at all about the nation's nuclear waste is the man who has made sure that it won't come to Nevada.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Reid...
GRIFFIN: Senator Harry Reid, in a brief session with reporters, said the solution is simple -- instead of putting the nuclear waste in Nevada's backyard, states with nuclear power plants should keep it in theirs.
SEN HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Leave it on-site where it is. You don't have to worry about transporting it. It saves the country billions and billions of dollars.
GRIFFIN: Not quite true, says the nuclear power industry. Power companies are suing the government for billions in damages because the Department of Energy agreed to remove the waste back in 1998 and it did not. As for the nation's nuclear utilities, their chief spokesperson says all they want is consistency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, it's just not good public policy to keep changing what we think we're going to do.
GRIFFIN: With nowhere to store their nuclear waste, the nation's nuclear power plants can do only one thing -- Keep waiting.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Waynesboro, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up at the top of the hour, NO BIAS, NO BULL, Roland Martin in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, tonight Democrats on the defensive. President Barack Obama is being accused of flip-flopping on terrorist trials. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is taking a hit for insisting the CIA misled her about waterboarding, and some of the fiercest criticism is coming from the left.
Also, at this week's hearings on the Buffalo plane crash, questions were raised about the qualifications and physical condition of the plane's copilot. In a few minutes, her mother and her husband join me to defend her reputation in a primetime exclusive.
Also Lou, it is time to declare a truce in the war on drugs? Well, we're taken those phone calls at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: President Obama once again changes his stance on a national security issue. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn't seem to know, well, what she knew or when she knew it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, four of my favorite political analysts, all CNN contributors. Republican strategist, former White House political director, Ed Rollins. Professor of political science, professor of law at Vanderbilt University, Carol Swain. Democrat strategist, Democratic national committeeman, Robert Zimmerman. Columnist, "New York Daily News," Errol Louis.
Well, let's get started. The president today announcing he is reviving military tribunals for terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay. I thought we had rolled back Guantanamo Bay, we rolled back tribunals. What's going on - Errol.
ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, they want to close it, but it seems of the 240-odd prisoners who are still there, at least 20 of them, charged with war crimes, are not going to be appropriate candidates for a civilian trial. They also can't be left in limbo indefinitely. There are probably no nations that particularly want to take them back right now. And so the...
DOBBS: France? France stepped up.
LOUIS: Taking some. Taking some. But you know, look. I think they're going to create some procedure so that there'll actually be some trials. I mean, over the last six years...
DOBBS: I wasn't worried about trials.
LOUIS: Three trials.
DOBBS: I wasn't worried about there being trials. I was worried about there being a reversal here and a diminution of the initiatives that the Obama administration apparently had undertaken.
LOUIS: Look, I think for the 20 or so who will probably go...
PROF CAROL SWAIN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: I really applaud him on this because it really shows that now that he's president, he has access to intelligence and facts that ordinary people don't, and that he's governing wisely, at least on this issue. So on this, I'm a fan of Obama.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I would agree. I think it's very complicated...
DOBBS: I mean, that may have been lost. You agree?
ROLLINS: I agree. I think he's clearly flip-flopped, but I think he has learned a lot about the difficulty -- it's easy as a candidate to say we're going to do all these things. He now knows the complications that are there and I think to a certain extent, his national security briefing every day, he has to walk away from that shuddering a little bit and I think he's doing the right thing.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it's important to note a president who's capable of growth and change and learning new facts and adjusting to new realities. We went through eight years where the Bush administration really was a faith-based organization...
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Excuse me, let me finish my point. My point is...
DOBBS: Oh, save me from Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: We went through eight years of faith-based analysis when it came to fighting terrorism, not based on facts.
ROLLINS: That is total, total crap.
ZIMMERMAN: My point ...
ROLLINS: Faith-based, that's what we were fighting -- me were fighting terrorists.
ZIMMERMAN: No, we were fighting in Iraq.
ROLLINS: Go talk to some of your friends who lost people on 9/11, Robert. Go talk to some of your friends.
ZIMMERMAN: We fought in Iraq under false pretenses, we ignored al Qaeda in Afghanistan we pursued...
ROLLINS: We did not. We went in Afghanistan and we fought terrorists and we're still fighting there. It's a complicated issues.
ZIMMERMAN: We fought in Iraq based on upon an agenda that had nothing to do with fighting terrorism. And I think the dips here, right now, is Barack Obama understands the essential -- new ways to fight terrorism. I think he's adjusting to it.
SWAIN: But, I also think there's a difference between what candidates say and what they actually do when they get in office, and that he made a lot of promises that I hope he doesn't keep.
DOBBS: Errol, I mean, that's interesting because the ACLU, lift- wing groups all over the country are outraged about stopping the release of those photographs, the reversal on the issue of tribunals and Guantanamo Bay. I happen to agree with Carol as well. This is not a flip-flop. This is a man saying, I'm learning something and I've got the guts to reverse myself.
LOUIS: Well, I also see it, though -- I mean, how do you even move forward on the policy? The Bush administration policy, when it comes to Guantanamo, was essentially to do nothing. I mean, these folks were sitting there, pretty much...
DOBBS: Excuse me, I didn't mention a word about George W. Bush. I was actually complimenting the president of the United States for reversing his position and taking into account realities which, as Carol may have suggested, he was unaware of as a candidate.
SWAIN: That's right. We don't know everything...
DOBBS: What's Bush got to do with...
LOUIS: Well, I got to tell you, I don't see it as a reversal. I mean, if I understand...
DOBBS: I'm not talking about reversing from George Bush. I'm talking about...
LOUIS: Walking away from his campaign rhetoric.
DOBBS: Not walking, absolutely reversing it. Walking away, I don't know what that means.
LOUIS: Let's be clear, there are...
DOBBS: I'm trying to be.
LOUIS: Of the 240 who are in custody...
DOBBS: What are you trying to say?
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'm sitting here trying to say to you the president of the United States just did something positive is you're seeming to say to me that he didn't. If you don't like what he did, say so.
LOUIS: No, I...
DOBBS: Don't walk away from it.
LOUIS: I don't know positive or negative is what's important...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I think you have just reached a new level of etymology that I think we ought to think about. You don't know if it's important to be positive or negative when it comes to the United States? This is the president...
LOUIS: You don't understand what has happened.
DOBBS: I'm trying to understand you let alone what's happening. What are you complaining about?
LOUIS: I'm not complaining about anything. I'm trying to point out what I happened, what I think has happened, you all can tell me whether it is positive or negative. What I think has happened is...
ZIMMERMAN: I think it is important to remember that presidents, when presidents make decisions, there are close calls and there are tough decisions. Barack Obama made two tough decisions this week regarding releasing the photos, putting our soldiers first and our security first above transparency. I applaud him for doing that. And I think...
DOBBS: The eidolons (ph) go crazy over that. They want to call that a flip-flop. They want to call that whatever. It is a reversal. And, by the way, adults and men and women in positions of responsibility reverse themselves from time to time and do so, and it looks as if we're going to see that continue. And I compliment the president.
But I think it is interesting that ideology at this table and partisanship at this table can lead to an argument over what is a positive comment, a compliment to the president of the United States because it doesn't conform to an ideological preconception. That's pitiful, folks. That's pitiful.
ROLLINS: Well, the key thing here is you got to forget George Bush. George Bush is gone. That happened last November 7, It is now about this president and this Congress. You have it all. You get to move the country forward.
DOBBS: I want to -- you know what, I'd like to interrupt one more time.
ROLLINS: Sure.
DOBBS: Because, there's another positive I want to say, a comment about, if I may, and that is the president of the United States saying, to special interest groups, ethnocentric interest groups and others, back off, I'm going to nominate a person to be justice of the Supreme Court. Leave me alone. I'm going to make my judgments based on meritocracy, you know, the same way he got to be the editor of "Harvard Law Review."
LOUIS: Well, I was going to suggest that tying to tell him what to do on the Constitution is like trying to tell him how to play basketball. This is his home field.
DOBBS: I don't know that it is, in point of fact. I think he's familiar with it, I think he's very knowledgeable, as he is about so many things. But I think this man is starting to demonstrate he can learn from lots of people. And those who would suggest and try to attach to this man some sort of superhuman qualities, I think you're unfairly binding him and frankly hamstringing. This, I think, is a very positive thing. Do you not, Robert?
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, absolutely. I think one of the great aspects of this administration has been the humility they have shown. When he was elected, he was very conscious of the 47 percent that didn't vote for him. And I think...
SWAIN: I have a...
DOBBS: That was humility?
ZIMMERMAN: I think they have shown a willingness to listen to different points of view. And willingness to include different points of view in making a decision.
DOBBS: Isn't it enough here, my God, folks, that we can talk about what he's doing correctly, what he's doing in the interest of the country, irrespective of the ideology, the partisanship, without ascribing superhuman qualities? My God? What do you know in the immediate vicinity who is humble? I mean, let the man alone. Let him be the president of the United States. But, he doesn't have to be some sort of demagogue.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't think he is. I don't think humility is an extraordinary quality. I think...
DOBBS: I do. It is in rare...
ZIMMERMAN: Unfortunately, it's in too rare a form. But, I think we have a lot of people in government, I have met many of them and Ed has worked with them, who have also have been awed by the office they hold and humbled by it and I think understand how serious their responsibilities are.
DOBBS: All right, let's go to Dick Cheney, real quick. Dick Cheney, doing a super job, a bang up job? He seems to be the only guy out there, whatever the Republican Party is, he at least seems to be getting it some voice.
ROLLINS: Well, he's giving it a voice, defending what he has done and I think to a certain extent that's his right. He's not helping the Republican Party long-term because we need to look forward, we don't need to look back, just as you keep wanting to go back, the bottom line is, we need to move forward. And I think to a certain extent, you know, he's going to be on the talk shows because he's a big draw and people want to hear it. But at the end of the day, you know the quicker he goes to...
ZIMMERMAN: You know what, you don't know, you don't know how far he's come unless you know where you've started from. And I think in looking at Dick Cheney's...
DOBBS: Oh, for God's sake. I'm not going to ask any more -- I've got the only answer I need. Nancy Pelosi, it looks like the all too obsequious and servile White House Press Corps just woke up, doesn't look like they want to be lap dogs anymore. You think she's going to get a little uncomfortable in the days and weeks ahead?
LOUIS: Well, she should.
DOBBS: Do you think this is a change of attitude?
LOUIS: Listen, everyone who was in those briefing, everybody attached to this policy needs to feel a little heat. These are policies that were repugnant to the Constitution, to the American political culture. And to say that, well, I don't remember, or not enough people in the room or I sent somebody else to find out for me, not acceptable.
SWAIN: I think she's an opportunist and that sounded like a disgrace to women, because when she says that she was there, she couldn't say anything...
DOBBS: I'm sorry to cut you off, taking us to the edge of time. Thank you very much, all of you.
In "Heroes," tonight, an Army sergeant who's risked his life to save his comrades after a roadside bomb attack. He's our hero. His story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In "Heroes" tonight, we honor Master Sergeant Robert Flournoy, a member of the Army's elite Green Berets. He risked his life to save his comrades after a roadside bomb attack in Iraq. Lisa Sylvester has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): Master Sergeant Robert Flournoy didn't plan to make the military his career, but he served in the Army for 20 years.
MASTER SGT ROBERT FLOURNOY, U.S. ARMY: Jumping out of planes, getting to blow up some stuff, shoot some stuff, do all those things that a lot of young type-A personality males like to do. It definitely fit the mold. I've been happy 99.9 percent of my time in the military. And I think that goes a lot to say for the military because not everybody is happy with their jobs all the time.
SYLVESTER: As a member of the 10th Special Forces Group, Flournoy's first tour in Iraq had him working closely with Iraqi defense forces. When he returned for a second tour in 2008, he saw that his work paid off.
FLOURNOY: I could see them become a lot more self-supportive of all the missions they were doing, whether it be humanitarian-type stuff, for the villages and take care of the neighborhoods, policing themselves, and actually conducting military and police operations. I really saw them stepping up to the plate and taking -- trying to give the government some legitimacy.
SYLVESTER: But, that second deployment also brought a challenge for Flournoy when his convoy was attacked.
FLOURNOY: The first vehicle struck by explosive projectile and it disabled the first truck, and basically put it off into a ditch where it was on fire and I had three soldiers in there. And we were pretty much out in weather that was very nonconductive to any type of air support or quick reaction force.
We felt that an ambush was going to be likely due to where we were at with the palm groves and everything.
SYLVESTER: With his troops providing security, Flournoy and another soldier pulled two men out of the burning vehicle and applied first aid until a MedeVac could arrive. He was awarded an Army Commendation Medal of Valor for his bravery and leadership saving the lives of two soldiers.
Lisa Sylvester, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Well, tonight's poll results: 99 percent of you' say immigration status checks should be routine with each and every arrest in this country.
A reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Fridays for the LOU DOBBS SHOW, go to LouDobbsRadio.com to get the listings in your area.
Thank you for being with us tonight NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now. In for Campbell Brown, Roland Martin.
