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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Speaker Pelosi on the Ropes; Prison Break in Mexico; Cap & Trade Debate; America for Sale
Aired May 22, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Good evening everybody.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tries to end the controversy over what she knew about water-boarding and when. She flatly refuses to answer anymore questions on the issue.
Also, the White House insists President Obama is not on the defensive over his decision to close Guantanamo Bay prison; this, after a revolt by his own party.
And a powerful earthquake hits Mexico City; hundreds of people flee into the streets.
And new evidence of the power of Mexico's violent drug cartels; dramatic video of a prison break, showing dozens of inmates escaping.
We begin with the new controversy over Speaker Pelosi. The speaker today declared she has nothing more to say about the CIA and water- boarding. She said she stands by her commitment a week ago when she accused the CIA of misleading Congress about its interrogation methods. The CIA denies that assertion. Republicans say Speaker Pelosi must produce evidence to support her accusation or apologize.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): House Speaker Nancy Pelosi came before cameras knowing she would be asked about the controversy that has embroiled her but was determined to say nothing.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: We're going forward in a bipartisan way for jobs, health care, energy, for our country. And on the subject that you asked I've made the statement that I'm going to make. I won't have anything more to say about it. I won't have anything more to say about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Madame speaker?
PELOSI: Another subject?
BASH: A far different approach from last week when she gave prepared remarks insisting she was never told water-boarding was used, lashed out at the CIA.
PELOSI: I am saying that they are misleading, that the CIA was misleading the Congress.
BASH: And delivered a performance even her biggest supporters called poor.
PELOSI: Let me read it again. I'm sorry. I have to find it.
BASH: This time the speaker brought backup. Surprising reporters by coming to her weekly press conference with three members of her leadership team, who all delivered remarks about Democrats' accomplishments and had a lot to say. They talked...
REP. STENY HOYER (D) MAJORITY LEADER: We passed a budget that makes strong investments in energy technology.
BASH: ...and talked...
REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), VICE CHAIR DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS: Next up, health care. We intend to move forward.
BASH: ...and talked...
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: So we are restoring ourselves to budget honesty...
BASH: ...for nearly 25 minutes before taking any questions at an event meant to be a press conference.
PELOSI: I would be pleased to take any questions.
BASH: when reporters in the jam packed room did get to question Pelosi -- that lasted just over five minutes. Pelosi's deputy Steny Hoyer clearly thought he was there to give her a hand. He moved in to try to intercept the question about the controversy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being misled by the CIA...
HOYER: Next question...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Reporters did try to ask other questions on the topic -- to no avail. The question we tried to ask is how much she is pressing the CIA to release classified notes from her 2002 briefing, notes the speaker insists prove she was never told harsh interrogation tactics were used that could get to the heart of what she knew when. Questions Republicans are still pounding away on and calling for an investigation -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thank you, Dana. Dana Bash reporting there from Capitol Hill.
Well, Speaker Pelosi today confirmed what Communist China announced yesterday. She will visit China next week and this, one day after her staff refused to give us any details of the trip. The speaker said her office does not confirm her travel arrangements to the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: The Chinese government has announced the hospitality it will be extending to us -- that they are extending hospitality, and the American embassy has confirmed that, so I will associate myself with that characterization without going into any further detail about logistics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The speaker has been a strong critic of Communist China in the past. She did not say if she would raise the issue of human rights on this visit.
President Obama today again defended his national security policies amid criticism from liberals and conservatives. In a commencement speech at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis the president declared there is no conflict between American values and national security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As Americans we reject the false choice between our security and our ideals. We can and we must and we will protect both.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: President Obama's press secretary, Robert Gibbs, today insisted the president is not on the defensive on the issue of national security. Gibbs saying the president will keep his promise to close the Guantanamo Bay prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, the president has said these are complex and difficult situations -- complex and difficult decisions that have to be made. I think anybody that thinks this is going to be easy -- I've said this before -- Guantanamo Bay was set up more than seven years ago and it wasn't going to get undone overnight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Defense Secretary Robert Gates today also rallied to the president's defense and he said the Guantanamo Bay prison will be an advertisement for al Qaeda as long as it remains open.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The truth is it's probably one of the finest prisons in the world today but it has a taint. It is the name, itself is a condemnation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Former vice president Dick Cheney, though, strongly disagrees with President Obama. He says the president's decision to close the Guantanamo prison came with, quote, "little deliberation, and no plan," unquote.
The senate today passed a $91 billion war spending bill that does not include any funds to close the Guantanamo Bay prison. The legislation will pay for the military operations and equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan through October. Democratic and Republican lawmakers are refusing to provide any money for the closure of Guantanamo. The Congress wants the president to come up with a plan for the detainees first.
Rising speculation tonight that President Obama could announce his new Supreme Court pick as soon as next week. Well, this after CNN obtained an e-mail from a top aide to the senate judiciary chairman Patrick Leahy. And that e-mail says it's possible the president will make an announcement next Tuesday or, quote, "sometime next week."
Let's turn to the economy.
General Motors may be just days away from declaring bankruptcy. Senior administration officials tell CNN that GM is likely to be steered into bankruptcy next week but they stress that President Obama has not yet made his final decision.
And another grim prediction for auto sales in this country; JB Power has cut its car and truck sales estimates for this year by 400,000 vehicles; it's down to 9.3 million. Before the industry collapsed last year, sales typically topped 16 million.
Many economists believe the economy will begin to improve later this year, but Americans are not so sure. Less than one-third believe things are going well in the economy.
Now, according to a new CNN poll, Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OBAMA: By no means are we out of the woods just yet but from where we stand for the very first time we're beginning to see glimmers of hope.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Do Americans see glimmers of hope? Only 28 percent say things are going well in the country. About the same number say things are very bad. The prevailing view? Things are pretty bad.
When the number of Americans who say things are going well is this low, bad things happen to people in power. In 1980, Jimmy Carter was thrown out. In 1992, same thing happened to the first President Bush. And last year Republicans got wiped out.
In most states 2009 is not an election year; saved by the calendar. Except in California where voters were asked to ratify a budget deal made by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Democratic legislature.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: They just say why are you bothering me again? I mean, I'm busy. You take care of it. You guys are sent to Sacramento to take care of those problems. Don't come to us. I'm angry. I'm upset. SCHNEIDER: will things get better in time for next year's mid term? The trend is in the right direction. The number of people who believe things are going well has been creeping up. Many economists believe the recession will end this year.
But the treasury secretary warns --
TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: Even as growth starts to turn positive -- which will happen -- unemployment is going to keep increasing for a while and it's not going to feel -- it's not going to feel better for a long time for millions of Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The last major recession ended, note this date, in March, 1991. But unemployment kept going up for more than a year. So what happened? Well, in 1992 we got angry voters, Ross Perot, the year of the woman, the economy stupid, and saw a president thrown out of office -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Very disheartening comment from the treasury secretary there, Bill, not going to feel better for quite sometime. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
PILGRIM: Now a powerful earthquake in Mexico City; tall buildings sway. Hundreds of people rush into the streets.
Caught on tape, a daring prison break allegedly organized by Mexico's drug cartels.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: An earthquake shook Mexico City today. Now the quake was centered about 90 miles southeast of the city. People ran out of buildings, gathered in the streets. There were no reports of injuries, however and the quake had a magnitude of 5.7.
An international manhunt tonight for 11 prisoners who escaped from a Mexican prison; Interpol says the 11 are the most dangerous of more than 50 prisoners who broke out. Now, this escape was allegedly staged by Mexican drug cartel members and it was caught on tape. Newly released security video shows the inmates being freed while the guards stood by and watched.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A convoy of vehicles arrives before dawn at the state prison in Zacatecas, central Mexico Saturday. Lights flashing, they appeared to be law enforcement officers. But Mexico's attorney general says the men are working for a drug cartel. And as security camera images indicate, they apparently met no resistance from prison guards, and in some cases even seemed to be helped by them as they moved to free 53 inmates. Here two prison guards watching the television set stand by as inmates enter their room and gently brush them aside.
One inmate is apparently wearing an Oakland Raiders jersey. Another covers the camera with a blanket. This camera shows five men dressed as Mexican federal police passing an empty counter then returning with a long line of prisoners freed from their cells. Mexican authorities say many of the 53 released inmates are drug cartel suspects.
AMALIA GARCIA, GOVERNOR, ZACATECAS (through translator): We have indications that the custodians and authorities at the prison may have been complicit with the group of criminals. For us it is clear that this operation was perfectly planned and relied on the buying off of people since it only lasted five minutes and not a single gunshot was fired.
WIAN: But 23 guns were stolen from the prison during the caper. The Mexican government is offering a reward of one million pesos or about $77,000 for the capture of each inmate and three times that for each of the cartel members who orchestrated the prison break.
RICARDO NAJERA, ATTORNEY GENERAL SPOKESMAN (through translator): We emitted an Orange Level alert with Interpol so that we can conduct an international search for the fugitives with special attention to the 11 most dangerous ones.
WIAN: The prison director and more than 40 guards on duty during the escape are in custody while authorities investigate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Prison breaks are nothing new in Mexico. Chapo Guzman, the nation's most wanted drug lord escaped from prison in 2001 reportedly by hiding in the back of a laundry truck in a laundry bag. But the latest escape may be the clearest sign yet that the Mexican government is nowhere near victory in its war on drug cartels -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: It's certainly a shocking tape. Thanks very much Casey Wian.
The federal government today said it was settling $1 billion -- setting aside $1 billion for the swine flu vaccine. The government will conduct studies on trial vaccines before placing orders with the manufacturers. The Centers for Disease Control today is reporting 788 new cases of the flu, no new deaths, however. The confirmed death toll stands at nine. One additional death in Arizona is still unconfirmed by the CDC.
An Illinois company is recalling nearly 100,000 pounds of beef that may be contaminated with e-coli. The U.S. Department of Agriculture announced the recall after people in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Illinois were sickened by the bacteria. Valley Meats produced and packaged the potentially contaminated beef on March 10th. It was then distributed under several different brand names and you can find a list of the recalled products on our Web site loudobbs.com.
President Obama's energy policy overhaul passed its first major test in Congress last night. The house energy committee approved the bill designed to drastically reduce industrial pollution. The so-called cap and trade plan would set a federal limit on greenhouse gas emissions by industry and allow businesses to buy and sell permits to stay within those rules. But the idea has plenty of critics including those who say it's another tax on business and it hasn't worked in other countries.
Ines Ferre reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cutting greenhouse emissions is the hot topic in Washington. Cap and trade would require polluting businesses to obtain permits to emit carbon monoxide. The permits would be traded in an auction market. Environmentalists say it will incentivize businesses.
FRED KRUPP, ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND: It will mean America is producing the sorts of new devices and new machines that are ultra efficient, low carbon, and we will be able to sell those overseas. It means we'll have a planet to give to our children.
FERRE: Europe has a cap and trade system but a Government Accountability Office report says between 2005 and 2007 that model did not help the economy. It says power producers passed costs on to consumers and concluded, quote, "carbon offsets involved fundamental tradeoffs and may not be a reliable, long-term approach to climate change mitigation."
The conservative group Heritage Foundation says despite changes in the EU model, cap and trade won't work in the U.S.
BEN LIEBERMAN, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: We haven't seen a reduction in emission due to the cap and trade system in Europe and we have seen economic problems there, higher unemployment, higher energy costs in Europe compared to the United States in part due to the cap and trade system there.
FERRE: The Environmental Protection Agency estimates the proposed system in the U.S. would have a modest impact on costs to households. The group "Americans for Tax Reform" disagrees.
BRIAN JOHNSON, AMERICANS FOR TAX REFORM: We've done studies that show that rates are going to increase on every single American family by on average $1,500 a year. That's being conservative.
FERRE: The Heritage Foundation study claims that with a cap and trade system 1.1 million jobs would be lost by 2035. But the Obama administration expects the plan to create jobs and help curb reliance on foreign oil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FERRE: Proponents say the U.S. would ease into the cap and trade system and avoid the blunders Europe went through, but critics fear that in the long run consumers will end up paying for emission allowances and jobs will go overseas where emission standards aren't so strict -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: And, of course, Ines, this is big money. There's a lot of lobbying going on, on this, isn't there.
FERRE: Yes definitely. It's been increasing over the months and also the bill, itself, has changed. In fact, you've got -- some environmentalists who say that it's too weak and then you have critics who say no matter how you slice it, it's not going to work.
PILGRIM: Tough issue. Thanks very much Ines Ferre.
Well, Republicans on the energy and commerce committee tried to slow down the approval of the energy bill. They demanded a reading of the entire 900-plus page measure and Democrats countered by hiring a speed reader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The clerk will read the bill.
DOUGLAS WILDER, SPEED READER: In lieu of the matter proposed to be inserted by the amended offered by blank. Insert the following section one. Maybe cited as the Energy Production and Conservation Act. B. Table of contents for the act is as follows. Section one, short title, table of contents. Title One -- Clean Energy Standard. Section 1.1 Federal clean energy standard. Title 2 American Energy, Subtitle conservation efficiency. Chapter 1 -- Tapping into America's ingenuity...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Ranking Republican Joe Barton at that point asked that the reading of the bill be dispensed with and the measure was approved, 33-25. We would like to know what you think. Here's our poll question tonight. Do you think members of Congress should be required to read every piece of legislation before they vote? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
Selling off America. Some local lawmakers are putting parking meters up for sale.
And the manhunt for a serial robber tonight who wears a unique disguise.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: We have been reporting for years on how government is selling off America's critical infrastructure. Well, this year in Chicago what may be a new low: auctioning off the parking meters. Critics warn it may backfire on taxpayers.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Chicago, it's gotten a lot more expensive to park, this after the city agreed to privatize the parking meters. Under the deal the city gets more than $1 billion up front. The company, Chicago Parking Meters LLC, whose largest partner is Morgan Stanley, gets the future revenue. So far, Chicago residents are not too happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to increase the price to park. And then when the meters aren't working ticket me on top of that and then tow me on top of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want any quick fixes. You know? We want something that's going to have longevity, that's smart.
SYLVESTER: Chicago is only the latest municipality to venture into selling or long-term leasing taxpayer-owned assets. The Indiana East/West Toll Road and the Chicago Skyway are among the public highways that have leased out to the highest bidder.
The mayor of Los Angeles has floated the idea of auctioning off the convention center and the zoo. Leonard Gilroy is with the libertarian Reason Foundation whose basic approach is less government is better.
LEONARD GILROY, REASON FOUNDATION: I would say that, you know, the key strategy here would be getting government out of the business of business. There's nothing inherently governmental about zoos or parking meter systems or convention centers.
SYLVESTER: but critics, including consumer advocates at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group say who comes up short? The taxpayers, who may not only have to pay higher prices on tolls but also lose a valuable future revenue generator.
PHINEAS BAXANDALL, U.S. PIRG: They're a quick fix for desperate states and localities but they don't end up being worth it in the long run.
SYLVESTER: In Chicago this week, Mayor Richard Daley says he still stands by the decision to privatize but he delivered a mea culpa to taxpayers admitting the city botched the implementation.
MAYOR RICHARD DALEY, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: There should have been a three-month transition; that's one thing we learned. Skyway, parking, everything else worked out. There should have been a three-month transition into it.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SYLVESTER: And the trend of selling or long-term leasing publicly owned property has really been taking off. Between 1994 and 2000, $21 billion was paid for 43 highway facilities in the United States that according to the U.S. Public Interest Research Group -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: And we know you'll keep track. Thanks very much Lisa Sylvester. Thanks Lisa.
Well, some other stories we're following tonight across the country.
Fire crews in Michigan say wildfires in the Upper Peninsula are almost fully under control tonight and this after days battling flames that tore through Marquette County. More than 30 buildings have been destroyed. There are no reported injuries. The cause of the fire is under investigation.
In Gainesville, Georgia fire destroyed several school buses on the last day of the school year. Now, investigators say the fire started before dawn at the city school bus lot. Eight of the 42 buses were destroyed. The remaining buses staggered their roofs to accommodate the students. Investigators suspect arson and they are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest.
Tonight students in Brooklyn, New York are recovering from a terrifying grate collapse at their school. Girls at the Yeshiva Shaarei Torah Elementary School were taking a class photo when the grate they were standing on caved in. Dozens were injured. None of the injuries were life-threatening.
And police in Henderson, Nevada are searching for a serial robber with unique disguises. Surveillance cameras at a local 7-11 showed the armed robber with plaid boxer shorts on his head and tonight investigators say the man has robbed four stores so far but changed his disguise to a paintball helmet.
A growing divide in America as families struggle to deal with the recession. And your government at work or not? The latest on an outrageous post office boondoggle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The recession is making the divide between the haves and the have nots in this country even more extreme. Those who don't have college degrees are doing much worse than those who do. And those who don't have white collar jobs are more likely to be laid off.
Bill Tucker reports on the growing divide in America.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Blue collar workers are bearing the brunt of the pain in this economic recession. Since it began 16 months ago we have shed more than 15 percent of all construction jobs, nearly 12 percent of all manufacturing jobs. By comparison, the overall economy has lost just over 4 percent of all jobs.
According to the Economic Policy Institute, which studies trends for low and middle income workers, the losses for manufacturing have hurt.
HEIDI SHIERHOLZ, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: The manufacturing sector is losing jobs at a rapid rate. The biggest job losses we're seeing during this recession are in industry but their job losses have gone back much farther than just this recession. So they were starting from the very weakened state and now have just been hit really hard.
TUCKER: Since November of 2001 we have lost 1/5 of all manufacturing jobs in this country. Construction and manufacturing are typically male dominated fields and last month the male unemployment rate reached 10 percent. It's the latest blow to the blue collar class, which is not only seeing job losses, but falling pay.
A study by the nonpartisan Brookings Institution found that in the 30 years from 1974 to 2004 median personal income for men in their 30s, on an inflation adjusted basis, fell from $40,000 a year to $35,000.
Manufacturing advocacy groups are pressing for a national industrial policy and pressing for changes in trade policy to rebuild what they call a hollowed out sector.
BRIAN O'SHAUGHNESSY, COALITION FOR A PROSPEROUS AMERICA: Every other country in the world thinks it should really work hard to defend its manufacturing jobs. We don't in this country. We've always had them and so we just accept them and we don't realize what we have is something every other nation wants.
TUCKER: And that, they say, is the bad news.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The good news, they argue, is that we do have it within our power and ability to take control and rebuild our manufacturing base all it takes, Kitty, is some political will, which so far has been absent.
PILGRIM: You know, Bill, it goes back to what the Treasury secretary said about this recession and people really feeling the pain for quite some time.
TUCKER: Right, and it's going to feel a lot -- the blue collar part of this economy is going to feel the pain even worse. Seventy percent of the people that work in this economy, Kitty, don't have a college degree. The people who don't have those college degrees are what make this country work day in and day out and we're ignoring theme so that -- you know, and their pain at some point is going to translate to the rest of the economy.
PILGRIM: Very valuable report. Thanks, Bill Tucker.
Well, a major policy change is underway at the U.S. Postal Service in the wake of a CNN investigation. We reported that the agency was buying homes of employees who are relocating and some of those homes cost more than $1 million. Special Investigations Unit Correspondent Abbie Boudreau has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This lakefront mansion in south Carolina is one of 14 homes costing more than $1 million, all purchased by the U.S. Postal Service to move its employees. Our investigation into those purchases prompted a review by the Inspector General's Office, which criticized the postal service for the amount it spends on relocation benefits. The Inspector General's report found the postal service spent $73 million last year alone in total relocation benefits to more than 2,000 employees and concluded some of the relocations were exorbitant. Senator Chuck Grassley requested the report after we showed him the results from our investigation.
SEN CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: My reaction is that it's outrageous particularly if you look at specifics within that report.
BOUDREAU: The 14 homes purchased by the postal service and later resold date back to 2004, according to records obtained by CNN. Here's what some of the properties looked like: This one in northern California, these two homes outside Los Angeles, others in Florida and Virginia.
And that $1.2 million South Carolina mansion? It was owned by a small town post master who applied for a mid level management job in Texas so he could live in the same town as his wife. That home is now under contract according to the report, but the postal service will take a $250,000 loss on the deal. It also paid the employee more than $16,000 for a house hunting trip.
GRASSLEY: He wanted to voluntarily move. Nobody was making him move. They bought his house. They lost $250,000 on his house.
BOUDREAU: And the most wasteful purchase? It was this secluded Florida home in Indian River Shores that cost the postal service $2.8 million in November, 2007. Eight months later we've learned it was sold for just $1.1 million, a $1.7 million loss. And according to the inspector general's report, the employee who was relocating is a vehicle maintenance program analyst.
GRASSLEY: It just doesn't reflect well on the administration of the postal service.
BOUDREAU: In a statement to CNN, the postal service says the number of relocations with "high value" homes prompted it "to reevaluate and change its policy."
Just before we aired our story in February about the South Carolina mansion, the postal service had no limit on the amount it would pay for an employee's home. But it then imposed a $1 million cap. Now the postal service's days of buying mansions like this one are over. Starting in mid June, it will pay no more than $800,000 to buy a home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU: And Kitty, it wasn't just mid level employees who took advantage of the policy. We found out that two former chief financial officers of the postal service also had their million plus dollar homes paid for by the postal service when they moved - Kitty.
PILGRIM: That is unbelievable, Abbie. You also reportedt the postal service gave one employee more than $16,000 for a single house hunting trip? How can they do that?
BOUDREAU: Well, it's allowed because the postal service gives employees lump sum payments for relocation expenses. Employees are not even required to turn in receipts for those expenses and in this case the postal service spent more than $75,000 to move the employee from South Carolina to Texas and of course that doesn't even include the amount it will lose on that beautiful lakefront mansion.
PILGRIM: It's just unbelievable. Thanks very much, Abbie Boudreau.
Well, President Obama and former Vice President Cheney showdown on GITMO and torture. Also Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she won't any more questions on her claims that the CIA lied to Congress.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Joining me now are three of the country's best political analysts, they are all CNN contributors: Republican strategist and former White House political director Ed Rollins; Syndicated columnist and Professor at Lehman College, Emil Perez; and Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman.
Gentlemen, always a pleasure.
You know, it was very weird today because Obama had to share the front page with Dick Cheney, a very unusual juxtaposition. Ed, did Mr. Cheney gain anything out of this exchange?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure, he got to defend himself. I think Democrats got the speech they wanted out of the president and I think the Republicans got the speech they wanted defending the past. I don't want to stay and fight on that issue, but I think Cheney helped himself measurably yesterday and I think he basically laid out our side very effectively.
PILGRIM: You know, I'd actually like, for the benefit of our audience, to play some back-to-back quotes from both of these speeches and let them just get a snippet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I categorically reject the assertion that these are the most effective means of interrogation.
DICK CHENEY (R), FMR U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: They were legal, essential, justified, successful and the right thing to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, this issue of torture, Miguel, is this something that the American people really care about or is this a political debate? MIGUEL PEREZ, LEHMAN COLLEGE: I really care. I really think waterboarding is torture and in the 21st century and anyone who still tries to deny that is crazy. I was just telling my friend Robert, here, before we went on the air that I was just in Colombia in the palace of the inquisition, 17th century, they used to torture people. The first thing you see there is how they waterboarded people, so this is nothing new, this has been going on for a long, long time, and it is torture. And anyone who tries to defend torture in this late game is absolutely crazy.
PILGRIM: Robert, you know, but, people are very entrenched about their feelings about this. Have we moved the debate forward any or have we just resurrected it?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN (D), DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think in many ways it's very healthy to have this debate resurrected. Democrats don't like to acknowledge it. Every time you have the leader of the former government, Dick Cheney, sharing the same split screen with the president of the United States that's a P.R. coup for Cheney.
But, the bottom line is it also opened up a discussion and a debate and I think Barack Obama with his speech seized the argument, seized the momentum. He was able to make the case as to why closing Guantanamo was a matter of national security. He made a very compelling argument. In fact, now that he's given his speech, people are now doing a look at the Cheney-Bush years and realizing how it did jeopardize our national security.
ROLLINS: There's one other very valid point. Cable television has now played a role that parties used to play. This would not have been a side by side 10 years ago, would not have made the network news, but the fact that CNN could cover it, FOX or anybody else could cover it, made it a national story for both sides and it just shows the power and the role that cable television now plays in American politics.
PILGRIM: Yeah, I think that's a fair point, because it really did generate a good bit of attention.
You know, let's talk about President Obama's plan to incarcerate terrorists in the federal prison system. Now, you have the "not in my back yard" crowd who don't want it; you also the argument that mixing terrorists with the federal prison population might have some effect on the inmates there. But then, the counterargument is that the federal prisons are safe and secure. This is a very tough thing to call.
Robert, what are your thoughts on it?
ZIMMERMAN: Secretary Gates, pointed out -- our secretary of defense -- we have terrorists in prisons, super max prisons throughout our country and, in fact, there has never been anyone who has ever broken out of a super max prison. Clearly, this issue can be addressed. The idea the United States can't address this issue and provide proper security is an absurd argument. Obviously Vice President Cheney played the fear card and very frankly got to some Democrats. We just saw the vote in the Senate. That was a reflection -- that was about no Democrat wanted to be Willie Horton, if you will, or face the tough commercial. But, bottom line is, I think President Obama's speech was able to put this issue in a proper perspective.
PILGRIM: Miguel, you're shaking your head.
PEREZ: No, look, bottom line is that Obama did not have a plan. He still doesn't have a plan. He had a wonderful speech, but he still does not deliver a plan, so, you know, we have this impasse, so, and nobody is coming up with a solution and it's about time that this administration, since the day-one they've been saying they're going to close down Guantanamo. Fine, how are you going to do it? Where are you going to put these people? Give us a solution.
Now, another thing that I would be remiss as a Cuban-American not to mention that in Cuba, in the island of Cuba, compared to the rest of the political prisons in Cuba, Guantanamo is a luxury hotel. So, you know, let's treat this in the right context because, you know, we're getting overworked about the mistreatment of these people who are really well treated there.
ROLLINS: the whole torture issue, there were three -- three men, and I agree with you, I'm against torture, I'm against waterboarding -- there were three men, one of whom was the mastermind of the terrorism (INAUDIBLE). Secondly the people in there, the term GITMO is a bad term today, but the idea that this created the al Qaeda or this basically increased the Taliban and all the rest of it is just bunk.
The truth of the matters both candidates, McCain and Obama, both said they'd shut it down if they got elected president, but you do have to have a plan. Right at this point in time, with everything else that the president has going, I wouldn't take this fight on. I'd leave it...
ZIMMERMAN: He made a commitment to close it, he said by the end of the year he's going to produce a plan. And I think when the secretary of Defense makes the argument, Secretary Gates, that this has been -- that the Guantanamo Bay prison has become a recruiting site for al Qaeda, I think that says something that we have to seriously address. And I think it's not just about the fact that we're holding these 240 individuals there in prison, but that this has become a rallying cry for al Qaeda throughout the world.
ROLLINS: The truth is that when you really look deeply into al Qaeda there's only about 200 people in the world who have been identified as "al Qaeda." You have all these little groups that are around including the idiots here in New York that we had yesterday who may claim that they're terrorists or whatever, but the real battle here is in Afghanistan and the real battle here is how do we get our troops to have what's necessary.
PILGRIM: Robert, you know, it's very clear that even the Democrats are not backing Obama on this until they get more specifics. I mean, detail is needed. ZIMMERMAN: Clearly. Clearly the Democrats in the Senate are demanding a plan. Quite frankly they also were voting out of political fear. They want some cover. And President Obama said he's going to produce a plan by the end of the year. It's a complicated issue, but there's recognition from the Bush administration, from President Bush who wanted to close GITMO to President Obama. This was a failed experiment. So, now the issue is moving forward and trying to keep the focus on resolving this and keeping the focus and fighting terrorism.
PILGRIM: All right, gentlemen, we'll take a quick moment and have more with our panel in a moment. But first, coming up at the top of the hour NO BIAS, NO BULL and Roland Martin is in for Campbell Brown -- Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Hey Kitty, we've got the latest developments in the case of five Alabama cops caught on tape beating an unconscious suspect. Their attorney joins me live in a few minutes. And wait until you hear her explanation for the officers' actions.
Also, President Bush's first homeland security secretary says former Vice President Dick Cheney is wrong when it comes to the debate over how to keep America safe.
We're also looking at the new credit card reform law. Will consumers really benefit or will the big banks still come out ahead? We'll break things down and tell you how to protect yourself.
Plus singer/song writer John Legend and CNN's own legend, Larry King, will join us, it's all at the top of the hour -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: We look forward to it -- Roland Martin.
Much more with our panel coming up including the controversy over House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: We are back now with our political panel and we really have to wade into the Nancy Pelosi controversy. I mean, today she actually categorically refused to answer questions about the statements that she says the CIA lied to her. And Ed, you wrote a commentary that said, why would a congressional leader pick a fight with an agency charged with defeating terrorism? I mean, it was a very...
ROLLINS: I mean, we all say silly things sometimes. And I think she got herself into a silly battle and I think she's got hurt by it. She's not going to lose the speakership. The Democrats have been forced to rally around her, but her president has basically had to make a torture speech. Democrats in the Senate probably voted down GITMO because of it and the entire week that the Democrats are trying to move that other agenda they had to deal with her.
And at the end of the day, she didn't enhance herself. She could have made a quick apology or said I didn't have my facts right or whatever but she didn't. And today basically a leader to stand up in a press conference, at her press conference, and say I'm not going to answer questions on this subject makes it just more ridiculous.
PILGRIM: Yeah, well, how bad is the damage for Pelosi and how bad is the damage of the intelligence community, because there certainly are hard feelings there, too?
ROLLINS: They're not happy campers and I think starting with the president's release of the memos earlier and, you know, they had to do a lot of bad stuff for this country and historically, I think, to a certain extent they feel when they brief the Congress they give them honest briefings.
ZIMMERMAN: Look, the controversy, though, is simmering down and is essentially over. It's over for two reasons. There were many members of Congress, including the former Republican chair of the Intelligence Committee, Peter Hoekstra, who came forward and said that he had a different impression of CIA briefings than -- different than what the CIA reported. And other members of Congress who came forward and said they have different recollections from what the CIA claims they told them.
So, that's one reason. The other reason this controversy is going to diminish is due to Newt Gingrich. The idea that he would take up the mantle for articulating honor and integrity when he was the speaker who faced the steepest spine in the history of the House of Representatives for unethical behavior. When his own party was in power, his own party found him guilty in the ethics committee of providing missing information on a continual basis. So, the man defies corruption and competence and deceit as speaker. He's no one to lead an ethics charge.
PILGRIM: Robert, then your point about it fading away, I mean, it is politicized right now. And it's deeply politicized.
ZIMMERMAN: Sure, it's politicized, but it's politicized by someone who has no credibility in the argument, so as a consequence Newt Gingrich's lack of credibility buries the issue.
PILGRIM: Miguel.
PEREZ: Look, one thing to say you were misled by intelligence sources and another thing is to say that they lied to you. And that's a very, very strong charge that she's made. I don't know that -- her leadership is certainly damaged. I don't know if she actually is going to survive this, Ed. And frankly, I think she's good, maybe the Republicans don't want her out because she's good for Republicans. She's making the Democrats look that bad, right now.
ROLLINS: And the only point I want to make is the person who was in the room with her was the chairman of the committee was Porter Goss, his recollection was what the CIA said. The gentleman you quoted was a chairman later and he basically wrote a story in the op-ed piece this week that...
ZIMMERMAN: Peter Hoekstra. ROLLINS: Yeah. And he supported the CIA.
ZIMMERMAN: I understand that. No one is not supporting the CIA. It's just members of Congress had different impressions. That's why I think this issue ultimately will fade.
PILGRIM: All right...
ROLLINS: But "lie" is strong word.
PILGRIM: "Lie" is a strong word. We hold it there. Ed Rollins, Miguel Perez, Robert Zimmerman, thank you.
Honoring our heroes. We have the story of one Army paratrooper who nearly lost his life fighting Taliban insurgents. And this photo earned one soldier praise from the secretary of Defense.
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PILGRIM: Time now for our "Heroes," it's our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform. And tonight, we honor Sergeant First Class James Brasher. His fearless actions in Afghanistan earned him one of the nation's highest awards. Casey Wian has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 82nd Airborne Division 4th Brigade Combat Team.
SGT 1ST CLASS JAMES BRASHER, U.S. ARMY: We're probably the best trained guys you could send into a combat situation.
WIAN: Four years after his first tour to Afghanistan, Sergeant First Class James Brasher returned serving as platoon sergeant for A Company First Battalion, 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment.
BRASHER: We were the theatre task force which meant when something would go wrong in the country or something flared up they'd send, we'd to square it away.
WIAN: Southern Afghanistan 2007, the night of December 7. The mission, help NATO forces retake the city of Musa Qala from Taliban insurgents.
BRASHER: We landed on an alternate LDC (ph), about seven or so kilometers away. It took us all night to walk from that spot to our initial objective which was a large hill with a cell phone tower on top of it. When the sun started coming up, the Taliban, the bad guys, started shooting at us from essentially the base of the hill.
WIAN: Faced with heavy small arms and machine gun fire, Brasher led 33 men down the hill.
BRASHER: We got about one building cleared, then we started running into the enemy. At one point, one guy just sort of burst around the corner, spotted all of us, he was as surprised to see us as we were to see him, but we shot him dead.
Eventually we were able to come up on the house where the guys were shooting at us from. Me and another guy came around the corner, we started blasting away and that's when I was shot. It was time to get out of there. The air support was called in and they dropped the bomb on the house.
WIAN: For his daring in acts the face of a determined enemy, on October 9, 2008, Sergeant First Class Brasher was awarded the Silver Star for Gallantry in Action.
BRASHER: I think that it's the most rewarding thing I've done in the Army was this last deployment as a platoon sergeant.
WIAN: Casey Wian, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Sergeant First Class Brasher last month underwent a fifth surgery on his arm and we are happy to report that he is doing well. We wish him a full recovery, a speedy return to duty, with the 82nd Airborne. And our thanks to all of the men and women in uniform and their families. We wish you all the best on this Memorial Day weekend.
Well at the U.S. Naval Academy today, three cheers for the Navy and the traditional hat toss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I propose three cheers for those we leave behind. Hip-hip...
CROWD: Hurray!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hip-hip...
CROWD: Hurray!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hip-hip...
CROWD: Hurray!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: One-thousand, thirty-six men and women, the class of 2009, today, graduated from Annapolis. Thirty-thousand family and friends watched the ceremony. Senator John McCain was in the audience, his son Jack McCain receiving his degree. Jack is the fourth generation of the McCain family to do so.
And praise, tonight, for a soldier who fought in a battle in Afghanistan wearing little more than pink boxer shorts and a red t- shirt. A news photographer caught this image of Specialist Zackary Boyd after he rushed out of his sleeping quarters. His boxers emblazoned with the words "I love New York." Well, that caught the attention of Defense Secretary Robert Gates who was in New York, last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, U.S. DEFENSE SECY: Any soldier who goes into battle against the Taliban in pink boxers and in flip-flops, has a special kind of courage. And I can only wonder about the impact on the Taliban.
(LAUGHTER)
Just imagine, looking up and seeing a guy in pink boxers and flip- flops who has you in his cross hairs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, the defense secretary declared those boxer shorts an incredible innovation in psychological warfare.
And we have tonight's poll results, 98 percent of you think members of Congress should read every piece of legislation. Thanks for being with us tonight. NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now with Roland Martin.
