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Nancy Grace
Search Warrants in Coleman Triple Murder Released
Aired May 27, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the case of a beautiful young mom and her two little sons found dead in their white-finished two- story home, strangled each in their own bedroom. In a heartbreaking gesture, 31-year-old Sheri Coleman and her two little boys, Garett and Gavin, ages 9 and 11, laid to rest side by side. Manner of death, ligature strangulation.
A glove discovered flung, the glove discarded along I-255 just minutes from the Coleman home. That glove set to crack the case wide open, allegedly spattered with red spray paint, potentially a direct link to a chilling message scrawled across the walls of the murder scene.
Breaking news tonight. Inside the police investigation, shocking details. We confirm mother of two Sheri Coleman found left naked, lying face down in her own bed. An airline boarding pass found in the home. A Home Depot receipt for red spray paint, latex gloves also found, the home covered in that red spray paint. Also, a handmade noose discovered, directly linked to the family home.
Time of death pinpointed between 3:00 and 5:00 AM. But hey, wasn`t Daddy still home before he allegedly left for an early morning workout, husband-slash-daddy, former Marine and preacher`s son who worked personal security for renowned worldwide televangelist Joyce Meyers Ministry? Tonight, we learn he kept a secret P.O. box, apparently unknown to his wife and family. Why? Well, this as the specter of a mistress rears its ugly head. Daddy turns up with bruises and scratches on his right forearms. Did Mommy fight back to save her two little boys?
Now prosecutors must go to court and prove who -- who -- crept into the family home in the early morning hours to strangle the life out of a stunning young mother and two little boys, leaving all three dead in their own beds. Prosecutors say it was Daddy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just unsealed, court records reveal what investigators found in the Coleman murder case. According to this search warrant, it says investigators found orange bailing twine on the side of westbound I-255.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An attorney representing Sheri Coleman`s mother and brother was in that location, in the crime scene, and he said he saw in the downstairs living room the words, "F" you bitch. Below it, the word "punished."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The killer was awfully familiar with the layout of the house. The killer brought with him or her paint, potentially gloves, used very careful and directed words. This is a targeted message, a series of targeted messages and very personalized.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, it`s very typical of batters, husbands -- and I`m not saying he did it, we don`t know yet -- but husbands who want to control their wives to watch them a lot, to monitor them in an obsessive way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disturbing. Disturbing. There`s no other word for it. This is a high-profile case, and these clues are just disturbing any way you go, and they`re indicting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, to Philadelphia, a mom and her 9-year-old daughter rear-ended by a black 1990 Cadillac. Two men jump out of the car, kidnap mom and daughter, taking off, both of them locked into the trunk of the Cadillac. Mom calls 911 from the car trunk. Tonight, a stunning break in the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police searching for a Pennsylvania woman and her young daughter have found their vehicle, and it raises a host of questions about the case. Bonnie Sweeten (ph) called 911 yesterday, claiming that she and her 9-year-old daughter had been kidnapped and were trapped in the trunk of a car. She said two men in a Cadillac rammed her SUV, then abducted her and the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She reportedly, according to the 911 call that was made, was rear-ended by a car, two unknown black males. They were driving a black what was described as a 1990s Cadillac.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, police recovered the SUV and found a parking ticket on it, indicating the SUV was 20 miles away from where the woman says she was abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the 911 call she made from the trunk of the car, she believed that they also took her car. Her car was not on the scene when the responding police officers from the township up there got to the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pennsylvania police issued a statewide Amber Alert for the child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, inside the Coleman murder investigation. We confirm mother of two Sheri Coleman found left naked, lying face down in her own bed. In the home, an airline boarding pass, a Home Depot receipt for red spray paint, latex gloves, the home found covered in that paint. Elsewhere, a noose discovered, linked to the family home.
We also learn tonight Daddy turns up with bruises and scratches on the right forearm. Did Mommy fight back to save the lives of her two little boys? Prosecutors now must prove who crept into that family home in the early morning hours to strangle the life out of a stunning young mother and two little boys, leaving all three dead in their own beds. Prosecutors say it was Daddy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Will police surveillance video crack the Coleman case? Reports are surfacing that a police camera situated near a water tower not far from the Coleman home could play a key role in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on this camera`s location, it could give exact times on when the suspect and father, Chris Coleman, left the neighborhood, when he returned, or whether anyone else suspicious drove in and out, all pieces that could be crucial to solve the murder of Sheri Coleman and her two kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Illinois woman`s family has gotten a look inside the home where she was found strangled with her two sons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mario Weiss (ph) walked out of the home where his sister and two nephews were murdered, too emotional to talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During their visit, the family saw obscene graffiti spray-painted on the walls of the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The downstairs living room the words, "F" you bitch." Below it, the word "punished."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re very hard to see. And they just make the whole thing more senseless, to see who would write these things on the wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family has brought a civil suit against Chris Coleman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea is to keep Christopher Coleman from selling any assets. The family would use any money won in a wrongful death suit to help build a lasting memorial to Sheri, Garett and Gavin in the city of Columbia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our goal is to extract something positive from such a horrific, senseless, and quite frankly, disgusting tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we get information from sources describing the inside of the Coleman home-turned-murder scene, the home absolutely covered in red spray paint, many more messages than we had first believed. We find out the mom left to be found naked, face down in her own bed.
Out to Ellie Jostad, our senior editorial producer. Ellie, what have we learned?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, today police revealed what they found when they got there at the crime scene, and they also revealed what was taken from the home, the vehicle, even from the body of Christopher Coleman. Search warrants served on all those locations.
We found out that when they arrived, not only did they see one message, but they said the walls on the first floor of the home covered in red spray paint. Upstairs, Sheri Coleman on her own bed naked, face down. The two little boys also dead in their beds. The investigators that first responded said that rigor mortis had already appeared to set in on Sheri Coleman`s body. The two little boys appeared as though they also were in the early stages of rigor mortis.
GRACE: Ellie, what can you tell me about a noose, a homemade noose, found linked to the home?
JOSTAD: Right. Right. That`s also in the search warrant. On Interstate 255, near the Jefferson Barracks Bridge -- that`s a similar location to where they found that glove with red spray paint -- they found a piece of orange bailing twine, the end of that twine made into a loop, fashioning a type of noose. At the Coleman home, they also found some hay bales stacked against the back of the house with the same type of twine.
GRACE: Ellie, what can you tell me about that basement window screen?
JOSTAD: Well, we`d heard that the back window was open and it didn`t appear to have any signs of forced entry...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! You said back window. You mean back basement window?
JOSTAD: Exactly, back side of the house, basement window. But now we find out that the screen was actually removed from that window and was propped up against a patio chair in the back yard.
GRACE: OK. Ellie, before we start take the calls -- everyone, we are taking your calls live -- breaking news in the murders of 31-year-old mother of two Sheri Coleman and her two little boys, ages 9 and 11, all found strangled to death, ligature strangulation, in their own home.
Ellie, what can you tell me about the story the husband, the former Marine, tells cops about threatening letters he said he got, threatening him and his family over his religion?
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right. Now, we`d heard that Christopher Coleman had made reports in the past...
GRACE: Good Lord!
JOSTAD: Yes. They`re shocking letters -- received one of them on January 2nd that said, "F" you. Deny your God publicly or else.
GRACE: Whoa. Wait, wait, wait. Hello? We need a shrink. Caryn Stark, psychologist, Deny your God or else? Somebody`s been watching way too many freaky movies. I mean, who`s going to write "deny your God," and why do you have to drag God into everything? Deny your God or else -- it sounds like a bad 5th grade novel.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it does. And it shows you, Nancy, that this isn`t somebody who thought it out very carefully or makes a lot of sense. This is somebody who leaves a glove or leaves a ligature on the side of the road. And Deny your God -- it`s as though he`s adopting a pseudo-personality to make this work for him. It doesn`t make a lot of sense, but it`s not supposed to.
GRACE: Ellie, Ellie, Ellie, did he actually produce these letters, or did he just tell the cops about the letters? What do we know?
JOSTAD: It`s not clear from this search warrant, although it`s very detailed what was in the letters. But it doesn`t say, He showed us the letters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, are you (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, did you kill your wife?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you do this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris? Chris, do you have any comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did surveillance video capture the killer of the Coleman family? Reports emerge that a police surveillance camera mounted near a water tower in the community is capable of shooting a 360-degree view. Within the camera`s eye, the only road going into and out of the subdivision and the surrounding highways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Coleman told many authorities that when he left the home between 5:00 and 5:30, his wife -- his wife and children were alive. If they can actually pin the death between 3:00 and 5:00, then clearly, he was not telling the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been, since the death of Sheri and the boys, a single phone call from Christopher Coleman to my family, to Mario. Not a note, not a card, not a telegram, not a carrier pigeon. Nothing. Nothing from the Coleman family to Mario`s family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the time of Mr. Coleman`s arrest, Sheri Coleman`s family had a message for him. It was simple: Let justice be done. The plaintiffs and the remaining member of Sheri`s family believe that the concept of justice can only be achieved if we work to ensure that the memory of her life and the lives of Garett and Gavin remain long after the evil acts of Christopher Coleman have been retired to the dustbin of history to perish in obscurity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. What do you make of the so-called threatening letters that Daddy told police about as far back as January 2?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, I find it interesting because it said on the January 2nd -- right from the search warrant, Reported receiving a threatening letter in his mailbox. And then on the other one in April, April 27th, Reported receiving another anonymous letter.
But one thing that they`re not talking about here, Nancy, is, A letter postmarked from. There`s not anything mentioned of a postmark, which says to me, Nancy, that he probably just reported to the police what was said, what was contained in these letters, which we`re showing here.
And the other thing I find interesting, too. In the search warrant, they took from Coleman a three-page handwritten sample, both in print and in cursive, for the letters and probably the writing on the walls in the house.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Susan Moss, family law attorney out of New York, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and famed defense attorney John Burris out of the San Francisco area.
Susan Moss, did you take a gander at those letters? I mean, they go into such detail -- I know what time you left this morning. They might as well have said, Hey, I saw you doing lunges in the workout club, then you had a latte. You know, he`s writing his own diary in the letters.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This guy takes the guilt out of guilty. The fact that he writes letters like this shows premeditation. He is premeditating and proving the case that he is going to be guilty of first degree murder. He took the time to think of an alibi. He put it in place by writing these -- either writing or reporting these ridiculous letters. And it`s not going to work. It, in fact, will mark his death sentence.
GRACE: OK, I want to see Renee Rockwell and John -- there they are, Rockwell and Burris. OK. They`ve gotten mighty quiet tonight. John Burris, why did he have to pile on? If he had to commit a murder, why all the crazy Mansonesque writing on the wall in red spray paint? For Pete`s sake, he`s got a Home Depot receipt for spray paint in the home. Ruh-roh! Forgot about that. And all these threatening letters, Deny your god publicly?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, first off, you`re assuming that he`s guilty, and I don`t know that they`ve presented any evidence yet that demonstrates that he`s guilty. Now, obviously, proving he`s guilty...
GRACE: Wait. Please put Burris`s face back up because I want to see him. OK. there -- I want to see him say this. Did you just say that there`s no evidence yet that indicates he`s guilty? Did I hear that? Or is my IFD totally broken?
BURRIS: No, you heard that they haven`t proven any evidence yet. I mean, there`s a lot of conjecture. There`s a lot of things that point in this direction. But when you really get down to it, they haven`t produced any evidence yet that proves unequivocally that he committed this crime.
GRACE: Unequivocally?
BURRIS: It certainly points in the direction...
GRACE: Maybe you`re right.
BURRIS: ... but not unequivocally.
GRACE: However, unequivocally is not the burden under the U.S. Constitution. It is...
BURRIS: Beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: ... beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, take a listen to this, Renee Rockwell. The killer had plenty of time to kick back and leave spray-painted messages, much more than we were originally led to believe, all over the house. He spray-painted all over the house. He had time to ligature strangle three people. He also moved a screen in the back basement to look as if there had been an entry made through there. A handmade noose. And if this man is guilty, and I`m not saying he`s guilty, I`m saying if he`s guilty, his plan goes all the way back to January 2 and his first cockamamie threatening letter.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right, Nancy. And I think that the most important thing now is going to actually boil down to the forensics. If they can put that...
GRACE: Oh, wait, wait! Look at your monitor. Look at those two little boys. Chris (ph), may I see that photo again? There`s one of them. There`s a shot of two of them on Christmas morning. I want to see that shot again, please, if you could dig that up, Elizabeth. Go ahead, Renee.
ROCKWELL: And you`re talking about Chris this morning because, Nancy, just days after that, January 2nd, is when the first letter was received. Don`t forget, in that search warrant, they also have a letter postmarked from somewhere in St. Pete, a greeting card to him that they retrieved out of his personal P.O. box.
Now, what are we looking at here? Are we looking at a case where this guy -- whoever did it cooked something up and had months and months and months to plan it? You`re going to not have any trouble as a prosecutor proving a premeditation, thus murder one. And even though there`s no death penalty now in that state, the next governor comes along, if they get the death penalty against this guy, the governor comes along and can turn everything around.
GRACE: Well, actually, you can seek the death penalty in Illinois at this moment, you just can`t implement the death penalty until a governor lifts the moratorium.
To Nicole Partin, investigative reporter. What can you tell me about this secret P.O. box police have uncovered?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy. Yes, apparently, they uncovered an e-mail that had been sent from the postmaster of the Columbia post office, reminding Chris of an amount due on a secret post office box that he had there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a phrase she would say to everyone that walked in. It would be, What up, dude? (INAUDIBLE) child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your client a suspect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know that. No, I don`t know anything other than what you all know, and we`re not in a position to make any comments right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have made an arrest in the homicide of Sheri, Gavin and Garett Coleman. We have a Christopher Coleman in custody. He was charged with three counts of first-degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, did you kill your wife?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris, do you have any comment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have anything to say to Sheri`s family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about your kids? Do you want to say anything (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any message at all?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sharon in Alabama. Hi, Sharon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I`d like to thank you and David for sharing the twins with us.
GRACE: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you`re more than welcome. Over the last several years, we`ve had a rash of this types of killings. I`d like to know what`s in these men`s psyche that makes them think they can get away with this and just ride into the sunset with the other woman?
GRACE: To Polly Franks, joining us out of Richmond, Virginia. She is a well-known crime victims` advocate. She`s executive director of the Franks Foundation at Franksfoundation.org. Polly, we have seen women and children victimized by husbands and dads over and over and over. What`s their psyche?
POLLY FRANKS, CRIME VICTIMS` ADVOCATE: I think it`s arrogance. Beside the fact that they`re stark raving crazy, Nancy, I think they think they can get by with it, which amazes me. They leave paper trails, electronic and otherwise, as you mentioned with this receipt. I just don`t understand it. I think they`re just so arrogant and they`re not thinking straight, obviously, they think they can get by with it.
GRACE: So you boil it down to simple arrogance. Or do they believe they`ll outsmart police, they`re that believable?
FRANKS: Yes. They absolutely think that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJOR JEFF CONNOR, COLUMBIA POLICE DEPARTMENT, ON THE CASE: For several days now we`ve been close.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police got evidence that they said was good enough for them to arrest Chris Coleman.
CONNOR: We`re waiting on some forensic evidence, forensic testimony, different things. And it just all started coming together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police zoned in on him from the beginning, with his alibi of going to the gym. You look at the timeline here. 5:45 goes to the gym. He`s calling back to the house not even an hour later, and then he`s calling the cops within the hour to check on the family?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: He`s saying that he called back to make sure the kids were getting up and getting ready to go for school. Had he done this before? Had he called back to check on his family when they didn`t answer the phone? They`ll able to tell that by his cell records.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know some of the clues that they`ve been chasing. We know that they`re very interested in this rubber glove that they found. We also know that police are very interested in spray paint.
BROOKS: That glove could be a treasure trove of evidence. You`ve got DNA. Also you could have possible fingerprint evidence inside of the latex glove from either putting it on or taking it off up in the very tips. You could also have hairs and fibers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just satisfied that we have a solid case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot strip Christopher Coleman of his dignity and his humanity. By his own actions he forfeited those virtues in the early morning hours of May 5th, 2009.
But what we can do and what we shall do is to take from Christopher Coleman all of his worldly possessions by successfully prosecuting this claim. Christopher Coleman and those who think like him should know that crime truly does not pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to the lines, Toni in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear.
TONI, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hello, friend. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question?
TONI: Well, first of all, congratulations on your new book.
GRACE: Oh. Thank you.
TONI: You`re welcome. My question is do you know or does anybody know if perhaps somebody actually saw his vehicle traveling on that road?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer on the story. Marlaina, explain to me the water tower with the surveillance camera on it.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Nancy, there is a complete surveillance system in the area, one propped near the water tower that shows the entire subdivision. So police are reviewing this surveillance, and we`re going to find out pretty soon what time his vehicle left the subdivision for him to go to the gym.
Now there haven`t been any eyewitnesses that have come forward that we know of who`ve witnessed his car traveling along that road, but we do know that he did travel from the homes to the gym. So we know he was traveling at some point. We just have to figure out what time from the surveillance.
GRACE: And what would be significant -- back to you, Mike Brooks -- is whether anybody else came along that passage, another -- the real killer, let me just borrow a phrase from Mr. Simpson. The real killer should turn up on that video unless he crept up the side of a mountain to get to the home.
BROOKS: Absolutely, Nancy. And that camera that Marlaina was just talking about should reveal a lot of evidence. But they also were asking, if you`ll recall early on in the case, law enforcement was asking anyone who saw anything along I-255 suspicious to notify law enforcement because that is one of two different routes that he could take from his house to Gold`s Gym.
And the surveillance video at Gold`s gym is also going to be very important. And people who work there to see exactly what time he got there to put together this timeline that he`s talking about.
GRACE: Hey, Liz, let`s see that video surveillance camera again Marlaina Schiavo`s telling us about. Because it reminds me a little bit -- I don`t know if you all remember the murder of one of our regular show guests, Daniel Horowitz`s first wife. They lived on the top, literally on the top of a small mountain.
I went there myself to check it out. And the only way you could get up there is through a road very similar to that one. Otherwise, the killer would have had to have come up the side of this very steep hill through terrain to get to the home.
So if that`s the same scenario as here, and it looks to be very similar, you`re going to have to figure out how the killer would get up the side of that incline to get to the home.
Back to the calls. Let`s go to Margie in Ohio. Hi, Margie.
MARGIE, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
MARGIE: I was wondering, can they tell who was killed first, the mother or the children?
GRACE: You know, interesting. I had that written for our guest, Dr. Zhongxhue Hua, Union County, New Jersey medical examiner.
Dr. Hua, I don`t believe they`re going to be able to tell who of the three was killed first. But what do you think?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: It`s unlikely to be sure which is first, which is second, which is third. But it really depends now on the autopsy and forensic evidence can provide you some clue, give you an estimation in terms of what really happened.
GRACE: Now if it could be determined from the body alone, I mean, sometimes there are other methods to determine who was killed first such as the layout of the killings, the position and the location of the bodies, where the killer entered the home, who they encountered first, but in this case it doesn`t sound like those outside collateral issues are going to help pinpoint who was killed first.
HUA: You`re right. But there are two things you can do. First thing is take the temperature, what`s the postmortem temperature supposed to be. Everybody has fixed temperature. The lower temperature certainly indicates someone killed first.
GRACE: I want to go back to Dr. Caryn Starks, psychologist joining us out of New York. I`ve been thinking about the mode of death. I`ve been thinking about the way the killer left 31-year-old mother of two Sheri Coleman to be found, face down, rigor mortis already setting into her body, naked, left her to be found that way, and then scrawled epitaphs on the wall, calling her a bitch.
Now there`s no nice way to clean up the facts of this triple homicide. What does that tell you, Caryn Stark, about the killer?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: What it tells me is that this man had disdain for his wife. A lot of times you see killers, they cover up the body, they make sure that it`s not completely naked because they have a little bit of sympathy or empathy for the victim.
And this man left her naked, just lying there with all of these horrible things about her, disdain, not caring, a criminal mentality, not anybody you would want to have around you taking care of you, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, Caryn, when I think about the little boys, when I think about the killer walking down the hall of the home, I imagine that the mother was killed first so she couldn`t rush in to protect the children. The mindset it must take to methodically kill one after the next after the next.
Help me out, Caryn.
STARK: It`s a mindset where people aren`t real. It`s a mindset that`s above and beyond the law where they see children the same as chairs. There`s no difference. He can`t tell the difference between a person and object. He has no feelings. He has no conscience. So he has no ability to sit here the way we are, Nancy, and feel terrible.
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. To Dawn in Pennsylvania. Hi, Dawn.
DAWN, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
DAWN: I have a question about the rigor mortis.
GRACE: Right.
DAWN: I understand that that usually sets in four hours or longer and would not that have put him there? And also the fact that Sheri was naked. Could it be that he had purposely made love to her that night to make it look like their marriage was in good shape? Thank you.
GRACE: Interesting. Interesting, Dawn. To Dr. Hua, joining us out of Union County there in New Jersey, what about those questions, Doctor?
HUA: Rigor mortis can set in as early as two hours. But another thing you should remember, especially when in determined stage of people`s life. If it involves in some sort of vigorous fighting to defend themselves, their rigor mortis is going to be set in much earlier and quicker.
GRACE: And they can determine whether there had been intercourse by a regular autopsy and a pelvic exam.
Lynn in Indiana. Hi, Lynn.
LYNN, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
LYNN: Well, I was wondering if he might have been on drugs or -- I really think he has very deep psychological problems. I mean, being born into a -- well, the son of a minister and then the Marines, and there`s something very deep seated here.
GRACE: Well, a lot of PKs out there, preachers` kids, will take issue with you saying because your dad`s a preacher you`ve got deep-seated psychological problems. But if he`s guilty, Lynn, I absolutely agree with you.
And another thing that just jumps out at me -- let`s just go to the lawyers very quickly, Renee Rockwell, John Burris, Susan Moss -- the dichotomy that will be facing a jury of a preacher`s kid, a very successful preacher`s kid who works for Joyce Meyers` Evangelical Worldwide Ministry now charged with this and allegedly dragging God into it in a zany letter saying denounce your god.
Sue, what about it?
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, the fact that this case took so long to set up, the fact that he`s been sending these letters since January, or reported that he received these letters since January is going to kill any type of sympathy you have for this guy.
GRACE: Everyone, quickly, to tonight`s case alert, Amber Alert for missing 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan. Authorities believe she was kidnapped and now in extreme danger. Last seen riding her scooter outside her home. Monroe, Michigan.
Police and the FBI questioning hundreds, issuing polygraphs, including the child`s mother, Jennifer Buchanan. She failed a question on the poly. The alleged boyfriend, George Kennedy, also reportedly failed a poly. Kennedy, a convicted sex predator. In the last hours reports surfaced investigators conducting tests on a bloody hunting knife.
Take a look. If you have information on this 5-year-old girl, please call Monroe County Sheriff. 734-243-7070.
And tonight, happy birthday to Ira friend of the show, Emma, a retired nurse. She`s celebrating her 106th birthday today.
Power on, lady. Happy birthday, beautiful Emma.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have, you know, a child, a 9-year-old girl who`s abducted, the sense of urgency starts right away and never decreases.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are scouring for evidence in the case of a mother and 9-year-old allegedly abducted in the middle of the day. The mother, 38-year-old, Bonnie Sweeten, was taking daughter Julie to a doctor`s appointment when she says they were rear-ended by a 1990s black Cadillac.
The men in the Cadillac went up to the mother`s car, kidnapped the mother and daughter and threw them in the back of their car trunk. The mother from the car trunk frantically called 911, saying she was abducted by two black males.
Police have now located the family`s Yukon Denali 20 miles from the abduction site and just two blocks from where a cell phone tower picked up the mother`s phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now this is being treated as a kidnapping. Obviously, it`s an adult and her 9-year-old daughter. The FBI is involved with the local police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are examining the car for clues as an Amber Alert was issued for 9-year-old Julia, who has a distinctive dime sized birthmark on her forehead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know their whereabouts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police and the FBI are trying to find a mother and daughter who they believe were kidnapped. Authorities say 38-year-old Bonnie Sweeten called 911 on Tuesday saying she was in the trunk of a Cadillac that had just hit her SUV. She and her 8-year-old Julia had been abducted she told the dispatcher by two men in a Cadillac.
Police headed to the intersection where the crash and abduction allegedly happened but they found absolutely nothing there. Pennsylvania state police issued an Amber Alert. Sweeten continued to call 911, seven times in all, say police. Twice they spoke to her at length but they still could not find her or Julia.
They did, however, find a Cadillac with front end damage and traces of silver paint consistent with Sweeten`s SUV. No one was in the trunk. Police discovered Sweeten`s SUV in downtown Philadelphia, far away from the site of the supposed crash and kidnapping.
Still, mother and daughter are nowhere to be found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Matt Coughlin with "Bucks County Courier Times." Matt, we are getting in late-breaking news that the two have been found in Florida at Disney Land?
MATT COUGHLIN, CRIME REPORTER, BUCKS COUNTY COURIER TIMES, COVERING STORY: This is a -- yes, this is a story that`s breaking as we speak. You know, yesterday afternoon the call came in and it came over as a kidnapping. But I guess that`s no longer the case.
GRACE: We don`t know yet, but we are getting reports that these two have been found, their identities not concealed, at Disney Land in Florida after all of this.
To David Gambacorta with the "Philadelphia Daily News." David, take me back to the beginning. What happened?
(ON THE PHONE)
DAVID GAMBACORTA, CRIME REPORTER, PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, allegedly, Bonnie and her daughter were riding along and were struck from behind by what she described as a black Cadillac. And she claimed that these two black men approached her and put her and her daughter in the trunk of their car and just disappeared into thin air.
And she was somehow able to make a number of 911 calls describing the whole terrifying encounter. And immediately everybody jumped on it, police, the media, and I would say everybody not just up in Pennsylvania but the whole country, I think.
GRACE: David, I`m sorry. I lost you for a moment. Who jumped on it?
GAMBACORTA: I would say police, media, and just about everybody in the country who heard about it immediately took a strong interest in it.
GRACE: Now, David, in the 911 call what kind of details do we believe she gave?
GAMBACORTA: Well, Bonnie supposedly ran through a whole scenario where her car was struck and she and her daughter were placed in the trunk of this car and she repeatedly stated her daughter was with her and they were riding around somewhere, she wasn`t quite sure where they were, and she gave the 911 operators instructions on how to get in touch with her husband.
GRACE: OK. Now she says, Matt Zarrell, that two black men, two black males jumped out of a `90s Cadillac, grab her and her daughter, throw them in the trunk, right?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Blame the black men. It sounds like Susan Smith. Remember?
ZARRELL: Yes.
GRACE: She blamed some unknown black man. Turned out she did it. In this case the child apparently is alive. I wonder if she could actually give a description of the mysterious black men, Matt Zarrell. What do we know?
ZARRELL: Well, we know that law enforcement sources told CNN that video surveillance captured Bonnie and the 9-year-old at the Philadelphia International Airport, which is about eight miles from where the car, the family`s Yukon Denali was found late last night.
Now we know that they were boarding a flight we believe from Orlando and now subsequently the report has been issued that they have been found.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, dare I say it? It`s a small world. They`re at Disney World? Hello? Couldn`t she at least dye her hair? Do something. Throw me a bone, Brooks.
BROOKS: Nancy, this story stunk from the first time I heard it, especially when I heard their car, the SUV, was found at 15th and Chestnut in downtown Philadelphia, five blocks away from where the cell phone call was made.
Now why did she wait that long to make the cell phone call? It was found at 2:00 a.m. the ticket on the car. There was -- somebody wrote a parking ticket. It goes back to the afternoon. And you know, it doesn`t take a genius.
There are hundreds of cameras at the Philadelphia International Airport as well as Orlando. So, you know, this thing started to stink early on as far as I`m concerned, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell, John Burris. If any, what charges are she looking at? Is she looking at, John Burris?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, at the very least she should be charged with filing a false police report.
GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute. Go back to Burris.
BURRIS: Absolutely.
GRACE: She shouldn`t be charged. She`s got a mental defect.
BURRIS: Absolutely she should.
GRACE: That`s what you normally say.
BURRIS: She should be charged.
GRACE: But now suddenly she should be charged. OK.
BURRIS: That was a hoax. That was a hoax and it was -- you know, look, this whole.
GRACE: You even defended Jennifer Wilbanks. Remember that? That nut job.
BURRIS: She should be charged. Period. You know false statement. A hoax.
GRACE: Well, you know what? You`re my defense lawyer. I`m not paying you if that`s the best you got to offer.
What about it, Renee?
BURRIS: Well, you`re going to have to.
GRACE: You`re not getting my check.
BURRIS: She should be charged.
GRACE: Well, normally you say she shouldn`t be charged at all, Ok. Go ahead, Renee. Give me.
BURRIS: No, I don`t believe that. Not what she said. No.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can tell you what would happen in Georgia, one to five and it`s a felony for a false report of a crime.
GRACE: Come on. Wait, Renee. Jennifer Wilbanks, the runaway bride, all she had to do was cut grass.
ROCKWELL: Yes, well, she`s got a felony on her record. But also, Nancy, it doesn`t.
GRACE: Boo-hoo, a felony on her record. That hasn`t stopped her from the book deal.
ROCKWELL: Doesn`t this also dissipate the effectiveness of these Amber Alerts?
GRACE: Please take Wilbank`s picture down, for Pete`s sake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She reportedly, according to the 911 call that was made, was rear ended by a car, two unknown black males, they were driving a black what was described as a 1990s Cadillac.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 38-year-old Bonnie Sweeten and her 9-year-old daughter Julia were on their way to a doctor`s appointment when she said they were hit from behind by two men in a Cadillac. When they pulled over, the men got out, grabbed the mother and daughter and threw them in the trunk of their car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Rachel in Florida, hi, dear. What`s your question?
RACHEL, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey, Nancy, I just want to say that me and my mother love your show, we watch you every night.
GRACE: Thank you.
RACHEL: And I just wanted to know if they`re going to put her under any, like, mental evaluation and if they do, will it play a big factor in her custody rights for her daughter?
GRACE: Give me a quick answer, Susan Moss.
MOSS: Absolutely. They -- she`s got other children, she`s going to lose custody of them too. I mean this all gives new meaning to the commercials, I`m going to Disney Land. But I mean it`s absolutely outrageous, she will lose custody of all of them and for very good reason.
GRACE: And unless she`s had a history of mental illness, I doubt they`re going to give her a psychological evaluation.
To Polly Franks, crime victims advocate at FranksFoundation.org. Polly, what does this mean to real victims? P.S., the police and FBI will not confirm they have absolutely been found at Disney World down in Florida. That`s just what our sources are telling us as we go to air tonight.
Polly Franks, what does this do to real crime victims, crime victims like yourself?
POLLY FRANKS, CRIME VICTIMS` ADVOCATE, THE FRANKS FOUNDATION, FRANKSFOUNDATION.ORG: Just makes me feel so mad, Nancy, because this just dilutes the effectiveness. I was just mentioning that I feel sorry for the next person in that particular city who has a missing child.
It dilutes the story -- you know it`s like when a woman claims to be raped and she wasn`t. It makes it so much tougher for the rest of us who have legitimate cases.
GRACE: If this is true, Caryn Stark, what is wrong with her?
STARK: Well, Nancy, this is somebody who clearly is not a good mother, who seems to have some kind of a mental illness and it`s going to take time for us to figure out exactly what`s going on with her but we know she is not normal.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant John Sullivan, 22, Hixon, Tennessee, killed Iraq. On a second tour, injured in first tour. He skipped his Purple Heart ceremony because it would delay his return home.
Always smiling. Loved his Chevy pickup. Wanted to return for a third tour. Leaves behind wife Michelle, baby son John Jr., born the day after his father died. Mother Debbie, stepfather, Charles.
John Sullivan, American hero.
Thanks to our guest, but especially to you for being with us. And happy birthday to Attorney Sue Moss with us tonight.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, everyone. 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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