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Plane Vanishes Over Atlantic Ocean; Army Recruiters Shot in Arkansas
Aired June 01, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Within the last hours, Dick Cheney does it again.
RICHARD B. CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A clear understanding of policies that worked is essential to defending the nation.
SANCHEZ: But he's now being refuted by the man he put in charge of Iraq. General Rick Sanchez calls the war an institutional failure and calls for a truth commission.
How can an airliner just disappear over the Atlantic? Family members desperate for answers.
Tom DeLay on Sonia Sotomayor.
(on camera): I don't think you're agreeing with Tancredo, but you're coming darned close.
REP. TOM DELAY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: No, don't do that to me.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Harsh, yes. Does her New Haven ruling merit that?
And the police officer who was killed by another police officer. It's the shooting that has New York buzzing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me one time where a white person has been pulled over and got shot by a cop.
SANCHEZ: Good question. We will ask on your national conversation for Monday, June 3, 2009.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right, here we go. Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news.
This is a conversation. This is not a speech, and it is your turn to get involved. And we expect you will. Whoa, what a bevy of news stories.
We're Going to take you through a catastrophic plane mystery that is still taking place. And, by the way, we have just been told that we're going to get a news conference on this probably in about 20 minutes from Brazil. So you will get the latest information.
And when I say mystery, I'm not kidding. There are still a lot of questions that haven't been answered on this big jet that suddenly crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, or appears to have crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. I don't know where else it could be.
The shooting of an abortion provider, much of the information there is still coming in to us as we speak. Now, just before going on the air today, there's another breaking story that I'm following for you.
Two military recruiters in full uniform -- I mean, listen to this. Two military recruiters in full uniform have been shot repeatedly. One of them is dead. And the reason is, the guy who shot -- and we understand now the guy who shot them has been captured.
The men were at the Army recruiting office in Little Rock, Arkansas. They had just finished boot camp and were taking advantage of this new Army program that allows them at least an extra week of leave if they offer to recruit and help the Army during that period before shipping out.
Well, police say, as they stood outside this recruiting station that you're looking at there, a man in an SUV just came up, pulled up next to them, and just started shooting. Again, one soldier is dead. The other is in critical condition.
I'm being told now that we have someone we can talk to from the scene.
This is Michelle Rupp. She's from our affiliate KATV.
Michelle, are you there?
MICHELLE RUPP, KATV REPORTER: Yes, Rick, I'm there.
SANCHEZ: What can you tell us? I know we're just trying to get the information out on this story. What have you learned so far? What are police saying?
RUPP: Sure.
Well, this all went down about 10:20 this morning in an area of West Little Rock, Arkansas. And it's very much as you describe it. Eyewitnesses telling me that, in fact, an SUV with black-tinted windows pulled up and just began firing.
We do know that one victim was pronounced dead at an area hospital a short time later. We understand he sustained multiple shots to the upper body. The second victim, we're hearing, does have some serious injuries.
But at least police in Little Rock believe that this individual is going to pull through. Moments after the shooting, Little Rock police officers were able to capture and arrest the suspect.
At this particular time, no identities are being released either of the victims or the suspect in this case.
SANCHEZ: Were there any witnesses who saw it, and, if so, what did they describe?
RUPP: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: For example, we're looking at the suspect here now. Did he say anything to them?
RUPP: No. No, nothing -- there was no communication with the suspect. I know one witness in particular that I spoke with said it happened very quickly.
He heard about seven to eight gunshots. He immediately ran across the street as the SUV was pulling away and was on the phone with 911, was trying -- other officers, recruiting -- recruitment officers, workers in that area were administering CPR and trying to get control of the situation.
SANCHEZ: Wow. What a story.
By the way, do -- do you know anything yet about the suspect? Has he been identified? Are you getting any preliminary information about him?
RUPP: Not at this particular time.
They are -- they are keeping that information pretty -- pretty close to the vest. We do understand obviously the FBI is heavily involved in this situation, as well as other federal agencies. And, so, at this particular time, not -- not much information coming forth again about the suspect or either victim.
SANCHEZ: Michelle Rupp is with KATV. She's following the story for us.
Michelle, if you get any more information, let us know. We will get you on right away, obviously a story many people want to know more about.
We have got another chance now to talk to somebody else. We have got -- we have got our own, as a matter of fact.
Chris Lawrence is standing by at the Pentagon now to possibly fill in some of the blanks.
You heard what Michelle had to say. Is there anything else that we are being told now by military officials?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're still waiting to get some information, Rick. We know the FBI has opened up an investigation of this scene, trying to determine if any federal charges are warranted. It does call to mind whether you would have some increasing security at some of these recruitment centers.
But then you have got to look at the question of, they're designed to attract people, not repel them. So they're designed to be very open. You want the recruiters to be outside, able to talk to people as they walk by, to have a welcoming presence there, which is the very opposite of what you would do in terms of securing a place.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's assuming that there was a military reason for this shooting of some kind.
I mean, if these guys are local, I imagine, and I'm sure you and the folks there at the Pentagon have considered this, there's a possibility that the assailant knew who they were from the past or that the assailant had some other reason for doing what he did.
I mean, I -- it's so preliminary, it's hard to figure it out, isn't it?
LAWRENCE: Yes. And you're right, in that the reason they're local and they're young is the reason they were there.
They were brought back because they still -- they are young, and they have still got contacts. It's their friends who are other potential recruits. That's what this program is about, to come back and say, wow, look what two months in boot camp has done for me, trying to get other of their friends to be recruited.
But, you know, this isn't an isolated thing, Rick. You have had recruiting stations that have had, you know, human feces smeared, windows smashed.
SANCHEZ: Really?
LAWRENCE: Yes, manure dumped on them. And a lot more serious things, too.
An office in Denver was shot at. A fake bomb was planted outside of an office in Oregon, a real bomb outside of another office in St. Louis.
SANCHEZ: Are these organizations that are anti-military, anti- Iraq War, fill in the blanks, and are just trying to protest?
LAWRENCE: Yes. It runs the gamut. It runs the gamut, like anything else. You could have one disgruntled person or you could have someone who has more of a political bent to what they're doing. But, obviously, the war -- the wars, plural, have stirred up a lot of very strong feelings among some people.
And you made a good point in saying, these guys were local. You don't know yet exactly what motivated this.
SANCHEZ: You know what is interesting? This program that Chris was just alluding to moments ago, it is called hometown recruiting, where, essentially, as I understand it, they get a week before they are shipped out to come back, an extra week of leave, if they volunteer to come back and just help talk to some of their friends, right?
LAWRENCE: Yes. They -- you know, these -- these two young men just finished boot camp, very young, had never even deployed to war, and yet were shot in their own hometown recruiting...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's the irony. That's the -- we were all thinking about that back there with my staff. We were talking about the possibility -- the fact that here are these guys were going to Iraq, which is considered one of the dangerous places on -- in the world, and they die in their own hometown instead.
Chris, if you get anything else, let us know, man.
LAWRENCE: Sure.
How could an Airbus filled with passengers go missing in the middle of a transatlantic flight? All right, Richard Quest is going to be joining us in just a little bit. There's new information coming in. We are expecting a news conference.
By the way, Richard is going to be able to talk to us about the plane itself, because he's done several stories on this. This is already being considered what appears to be a crash of catastrophic proportions. The information continues to come in. And we will continue to share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's heart-wrenching that something in our community could happen as evil as this in his church.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, and you think that's a story that has got people talking. How about this one? A doctor is shot and killed by an anti- abortion activist. You are going to hear exclusively on this newscast from the victim's lawyer. We are going to be talking to him.
And then there's this question that some people are already putting together in their heads. Is there a link between this killing and the Supreme Court nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor? We are putting that one together for you as well. Stay with us. We're going to be right back.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. This is Bill Johnson (ph) from Wichita, Kansas.
I'm just hoping Wichita doesn't get the reputation that Dallas got after the killing of JFK in regards to this killing of George Tiller.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There are several big stories that have really captivated much of the country on this day, but there's one that's got a lot of folks talking.
I mentioned this to you just a little while ago. And I understand we're getting some new information now about this anti- abortion protester who allegedly shot and killed a doctor in Wichita.
By the way, you have probably heard the doctor's name is George Tiller. And that's an important part of the story, because his name has been referenced on this in the past.
Let me tell you what the Associated Press is now reporting. They're saying that Attorney General Eric Holder has now ordered increased federal protection for other abortion providers and clinics that offer abortions. Exactly which ones is still unclear.
I think the folks there in Washington are working through this. And so are we. Now, keep in mind, Dr. Tiller had been the object of a previous shooting attack and of ongoing threats from anti-abortion activists.
On that score, "The New York Times," we understand, is now reporting the suspected killer professed an anti-government, anti- abortion philosophy, according to people who knew him. "The Times" also reports a poster by the name of Scott Roeder was posted to a blog on the Operation Rescue Web site.
And ti said -- let me get -- let me get the quote here and make sure. "Tiller" -- Tiller -- again, remember Tiller's the name of the doctor -- "Tiller is the concentration camp Mengele" -- referring of course to the Nazi doctor -- "of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation."
Sounds like a threat to just about anybody who hears that. Roeder now is charged with first-degree murder. Yes, he was captured shortly after the incident, when police chased him.
We are awaiting his first court appearance. It could happen any moment, by a -- time. And, if it does, we will immediately let you see it during this hour. And we will be able to show -- probably be able to show you Roeder's picture as well if that happens any time shortly.
All right, I want to bring in a guest now. Joining me from Wichita is attorney Dan Monnat. He is a spokesman for the victim's family who has chosen to come out and speak on their behalf on this day.
Dan, thanks for being with us, sir.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: Let me first ask you about the family. Obviously, our condolences go out to them. How are they doing? What have they said?
DAN MONNAT, TILLER FAMILY SPOKESMAN AND ATTORNEY: Well, the family is completely devastated by this horrible event that has occurred.
On the other hand, they are a very strong, loving, supportive family that has backed their husband, father, and grandfather all through these threatening years. And I'm confident that they will do their best to regroup.
SANCHEZ: Take us through what happened yesterday in, of all places, a church on a Sunday.
MONNAT: Again, I don't want to be -- to pretend to be more knowledgeable than I am. Those are all investigative facts known to law enforcement.
But church was one place where George Tiller felt that he would be safe from violence. He was there acting as an usher for the congregation, handing out bulletins, when he was gunned down in the foyer.
SANCHEZ: Did he know that there was a threat on his life? And, if so, how was he treating that?
MONNAT: Well, I mean, over the 30 years of his serving women with abortion services, he knew that his life was always threatened.
But I never saw George Tiller fearful or flinch once for his own sake. His concern was always foremost for his patients and family.
SANCHEZ: What does the family make of abortion opponents saying today on several Web sites and perhaps in other places that, in some respect, the killing was justified? What would -- what is their reaction to those kind of statements?
MONNAT: Well, I don't want to try to quote them, when I haven't talked to them about that horrible suggestion.
But I'm sure their reaction is the same as mine. What could be more insulting, what could be more insensitive than that kind of accusation? More often, I'm hearing that the anti-choice zealots are claiming they're opposed to this kind of violence, despite the fact that they may well have been said to have incited that to some degree by their rhetoric of accusing Tiller of being a killer and a murderer and blood on his hands over the past many years in their irresponsible rhetoric.
SANCHEZ: The used -- the reason most often used for the action or as it's explained on some of these Web sites you and I spoke to is because he performed late-term abortions.
Did you ever talk to him about that, why he performed late-term abortions?
MONNAT: Dr. Tiller performed late-term abortions because it was the constitutional right of women to seek them, and he was particularly skilled at giving that kind of care.
Foremost, he wanted to assure women that their constitutional right could be exercised under the care of a professional, secure, safe physician, and not relegated to some motel room or back alley.
SANCHEZ: Do you believe -- final question, do you believe that this was caused by rhetoric?
MONNAT: That's really hard to say.
I think what we could say at this point is, regardless of the motive, the women's rights movement and women's rights will suffer because there will be doctors who will be terrified about this event. And, to some extent, regardless of the motivation, the act itself will discourage them from becoming further involved.
SANCHEZ: So, it will have a chilling effect.
Dan Monnat, we thank you, sir, for taking the time to talk to us.
MONNAT: All right, thank you.
Is the nomination of Judge Sotomayor causing an uproar on abortion? Does she deserve it? We're looking into both the legal and political aspects of this.
Also, take a look at this. A couple of men go fishing on a river. They suddenly find themselves fighting for their lives. A helicopter has to come to their rescue. The video is incredible. And we're going to share it with you.
And then it's official. General Motors has filed for bankruptcy, announces plant closings. We have got the information on how many people could be affected, how many will lose their jobs, how many plants will be closed and in what cities. We have got the lowdown and we will share.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Rick. This is Buzzards Corner (ph) from Los Angeles, California.
My question to the American people and to the person that did this shooting is, it's the right-wing people who are now saying that he just -- it was a justifiable death, but it is the same people that sit in church every Sunday and pray. Your worst people sit in those churches. This is just proof of that.
Thanks. (END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We are getting a ton of commentary about opposing abortion rights and endorsing it. We're going to be sharing some of your comments in just a little bit.
But, first, let me share this with you as well. This is a nail- biter, all right? I have got your nail-biter right here.
A couple of Virginia guys owe their lives to the U.S. Park Police today. Watch this tape. We will watch it together. This is in Fairfax County, Virginia. It's a great place to fish, right? Terrible place for your boat to go dead in the water. Look at that, the edge of a dam. The boat goes over.
The two men abandon ship. They get stuck. Here comes the rescue helicopter and the rope, a beautiful sight, I imagine, for them. The drop over the dam was more than 50 feet straight down, certain death if they had stayed on the boat. It turns out, thank goodness, they were rescued and there was a happy ending.
All right, you know what you're looking at here? These are family members desperate, I imagine, as they arrive at airports wanting to know how the plane that was carrying their loved ones has suddenly disappeared in the Atlantic Ocean. There's new information that's coming in to us from this catastrophic disaster. We are expecting a news conference any moment. What a scene. We will be bringing it to you.
Also, images of a bull that is mauling that people paid to see. But I have to warn you, this one's kind of tough to watch. Wow.
Also, Dick Cheney vs. Rick Sanchez -- Cheney vs. Sanchez. I will explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, here's the story that really has captivated so many people since early this morning, when we woke up.
News conference any moment now, by the way, on this situation off the coast of Brazil.
I want you to watch this scene. This is at airports in both Paris and Rio, as family members arrive at these airports. This is a split that we're creating for you here. You see one airport on the top, another one on the other side. They're being brought in by buses, by the way. They're being protected by airport security as they await information on their loved ones, who are now presumed crash victims, presumed.
I want to take you through a quick timeline now. Here's what we know. All right? And we have got some graphics to show this. The Air France flight, it was an Airbus 330 aircraft, more than 220 people on board. It took off from Brazil around 6:30 Eastern.
Some time around 9:30, the cockpit made its last contact with air traffic controllers. Around 10:00, we know the plane experienced some turbulence caused by thunderstorms over the ocean, some type of electrical problem in flight apparently prompted some kind of automatic signal.
Then, nearly three hours later, the Brazilian air force suddenly commenced a search -- maybe not so sudden, when you think about it.
Let's talk to a couple guys here who know about air safety and who know this aircraft.
First, former NTSB safety investigator Greg Feith is good enough to join us. And also CNN's Richard Quest is going to be joining us to talk in London to tell us about the -- about the aircraft itself.
Can you explain why it took the Brazilian air force so long to get out there. We have been wondering about that all day, Greg. Do you know?
GREG FEITH, FORMER NTSB SAFETY INVESTIGATOR: I don't.
One of the things that -- there's always this process. Over the ocean, where you don't have radar coverage, you're waiting for those mandatory calls by the crew to check in as they change in longitude.
And they may have waited, thinking that they would -- they missed their first check-in and they were going to wait for the next check- in, which was probably going to be about the next hour. And that may have been the reason why they waited so long to dispatch any kind of search operation.
SANCHEZ: Because of the world we live in, the first time when you hear this, you think terrorism. But it's starting to look like there was a real big thunderstorm in that area. In fact, Chad Myers, our meteorologist here, tells me they all but flew right into a tropical wave.
Is that your assessment as well?
FEITH: And that may be very possible.
One of the things that -- you know, the early speculation, Rick, is that there was a lightning strike. Well, lightning doesn't typically affect airplanes in the high 30,000-, low 40,000-foot range unless you have a very, very large thunderstorm, in which they flew into.
Now, the information that came down from the airplane during the course of, you know, dumping the data, that's performance-related information. That may give the investigators in lieu of a flight data recorder some semblance of a sequence of events and whether they actually flew into a large area of a thunderstorm or severe turbulence. SANCHEZ: Before I go on to Richard, could you explain why we don't hear that there was any communication between the pilot and some tower somewhere saying, you know, we have got a problem, we're going down, mayday? It sounds like there wasn't any distress call.
FEITH: It may have been because whatever event took place in that cockpit was either so catastrophic or required the crew's full attention that they didn't have time to get a call off or a mayday call, or they could have had a total electrical failure, which negated that possibility.
SANCHEZ: Greg Feith, thanks so much for being with us. I remember your conversations with you from our Miami days. Good to see that...
FEITH: Good to see you.
SANCHEZ: ... you're still out there kicking. Appreciate it.
All right, let's go over to Richard Quest now.
Richard Quest probably knows as much about this plane as any reporter, because he's covered it so many times.
Wasn't this supposed to be one of the safest airplanes in the world?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And it still is, Rick. Let's keep this into perspective. More than 300 of them are flying around the world. Many of them are in U.S. fleets, like U.S. Airways, which uses them every night to cross the Atlantic to Europe. The old Northwest, now part of course of Delta, uses this plane, again, every night to fly across the Atlantic into Europe and down south.
So -- so, let's keep perspective on this. There have only been two really notable incidents concerning the A-330. The fatal incident was in 1994. There was another incident at the turn of the century, 2001.
But, Rick, to answer your question -- and this plane is one of the safest in the air -- something clearly took place. And as Greg was alluding to it, these accidents are never, and I mean never, the result of a single incident. They are a cascading series of events, which eventually overwhelm the crew and take the plane down.
SANCHEZ: Well, aren't you as curious as I am about to why -- as to why the crew didn't say anything, that we're not getting reports that they -- that they had communicated with the tower in any way?
QUEST: Right.
No, I'm not particularly worried or concerned about that. I'm concerned why there was no mayday signal.
SANCHEZ: Yes. QUEST: This incident took place about three hours into the flight. By then, it had made its last call back to the air traffic control on the northeast coast of Brazil. It then heads out into the ocean.
Now, it has lost radar contact, as it was expected it to, but there wouldn't be any other calls. They don't sit there calling every 20 minutes anymore. They send data transmissions. What I think you're asking, and it's a good question, Rick, is when the crisis happened, why didn't the captain just thumb the mic and say mayday, mayday, mayday. And I suspect that is the point we'll never properly know.
SANCHEZ: Well, maybe we'll know if they ever find the airplane. By the way, last reports are they still haven't found it.
QUEST: Well --
SANCHEZ: One report possibly of debris is all we're getting, right now, right?
QUEST: Can I just tell you why they haven't found it?
SANCHEZ: Why?
QUEST: Because it sounds so simple when you think of certain things, but the reality, of course, is hundreds of square miles. They know where the plane was seen last. They know where it should have been then, but between that gap is many, many hundreds of square miles of the Atlantic Ocean. Which has to be searched for that little piece of wreckage that tells them they have found what they're looking for.
SANCHEZ: And how deep.
QUEST: Truly a needle in a haystack.
SANCHEZ: No, I grew up off the Atlantic. I mean, once you get off that continental shelf there's some really deep waters there. It might be awhile. Richard Quest, my thanks to you, as usual.
QUEST: Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're acting as reluctant shareholders because that is the only way to help GM succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. The government has stepped in now to become a reluctant, key word here, "reluctant" shareholder of General Motors; now owns 60 percent. We will also be telling you what Canada owns. We're all over this story. We'll bring you reaction and new information that we just got. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This has been a long time coming, but for those of us, of my generation, whoever thought we would utter these words. General Motors is bankrupt. Or these, General Motors' majority owner is the United States of America. Think about that. Here's what we've learned about the company's plan to downscale, to stave off total collapse.
About 20,000 workers will join the ranks of the unemployed, 20,000; possibly many more to come. About a dozen plants we now understand will be closing. General Motors will shed more than 2,000 dealers that bear the company's name, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab are gone from GM's future, it seems. Joining me now from New York, Rick Newman, chief business correspondent for "U.S. News & World Report."
Could I have imagined five years ago that the U.S. government would own General Motors?
RICK NEWMAN, CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Five years ago, no. Five months ago, yes.
It almost feels a little anti-climactic today, Rick. This has been in the works now, we have seen how desperate GM has become really going back to last fall, when they said they were going to run out of cash in 2009 if they didn't make it. Then do you remember those hearings in Congress where the three Detroit CEOs went and testified ...
SANCHEZ: Oh, do I ever.
NEWMAN: ...about what horrible shape they were in. I think that set the stage. It was an awakening for all of us saying this is really a problem that's not going to have a good ending.
SANCHEZ: Especially when they showed up in private jets.
NEWMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: By the way, is the government going to be telling these guys what cars to make, et cetera? Is this the way this is going to work?
NEWMAN: Yeah. I think we will see like the little square boxes they used to have in Russia, right, on every street. Everybody hopes not. You know, that's why you have heard Obama say the government's going to be a reluctant shareholder, going to get out as quickly as it can. If they're lucky to start to sell off some of those shares within 18 months.
I think a real indicator of whether this has a good chance to succeed or not is whether we start hearing about some member of Congress wants to have some say in whether a plant stays opened or closed, dealers in such and such district, can't you give my guy a break, and things like that. If that starts to happen, this is a disaster. SANCHEZ: What happens to me if I happen to own a Pontiac or Saab or a Hummer?
NEWMAN: I don't know --you're a shareholder now, Rick. Maybe you take your share down and say hey, can I get a special --
SANCHEZ: No, but those cars - it sounds like, I mean, they're not bye-bye yet. It sounds like they're not going to be -- who wants to make a Hummer anymore? Who would buy one?
NEWMAN: Well, my best guess is that there will actually be a buyer for the Hummer brand because those vehicles are popular in places like the Mideast where gas isn't as expensive as it is here, it's not that big a deal. That franchise probably has some merit.
Pontiacs, we know that brand is going to go away. Saturn, GM will stop making Saturn vehicles at some point. But those cars are very, you know, those cars are very serviceable. They're very similar to many, many other cars in the GM fleet. People will be able to get those serviced for awhile.
I think the people who really stand to lose are people who might have recently bought one of those and they want to sell it sometime soon. I think your resale's not going to be good if that's your case. If you have one of those cars and you just want to hold on to it until you have paid it off, and maybe give it to your teenager or something like that, I think you'll be OK.
SANCHEZ: Rick Newman, thanks for being with us as usual, great information.
NEWMAN: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Fact is that we did what we felt we had to do and if I had it to do all over again, I would do exactly the same thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Dick Cheney defending his administration's national security record. This is only about an hour ago. We have been monitoring it since he started speaking. He was speaking today - actually not just speaking, but taking questions at the National Press Club. We will tell you what else he had to say.
Also, the Republican fuss over the Supreme Court nominee Sotomayor continues as she prepares to defend her confirmation before the Senate. We're all over that as well. Stay with us. I'm going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Robert, let's go to the Twitter board. Quick hits, as we go. Just a couple comments we have been getting. Boy, a lot of people have been talking about this abortion killing.
"The abortion doc wasn't doing anything illegal. Women have the right to choose. The shooting is not karma. It's psycho murder," says one.
And then Dolphincrest, just under that, says: "Great reporting today, Rick. Haven't had to hit the mute button once --yet."
Not quite sure how to take that. But I will.
Dick Cheney's road tour turned up today at the National Press Club. Before we hear what he said, I need to take you back through what he said the last time. And do that thing which we do best in our business, check the facts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former Vice President Dick Cheney.
SANCHEZ (voice over): McClatchy News Services has looked into what the former vice president said the last time he spoke, and found at least 10 instances of errors, omissions or misrepresentations.
First, Cheney defended the use of enhanced interrogations by using quotes from Admiral Dennis Blair, who is now the U.S. intelligence czar. Blair did say the interrogations were "valuable in some instances."
But here's the quote from Blair that Cheney left out. Quote, "There's no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means."
He also said, about enhanced interrogations, "The damage they have done to our interests far outweigh whatever benefit they gave to us ... and they are not essential to our national security."
Cheney also maintained that classified government memos will prove him right and he wants the memos released. However, it's important to point out that the order preventing the memos' release was established by Dick Cheney during the Bush administration.
Also, Cheney slammed President Obama for wanting to shut down the Gitmo detention center and trying to get other countries to take the detainees. After checking the facts, one finds that effort actually began during the Bush administration. Here's a Bush official from 2007. Quote, "We need help in closing Guantanamo." That official? Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: If nothing else but for the irony, we thought you would want to know. Now, here's Dick Cheney responding to critics today at the National Press Club, about an hour ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHENEY: Fact is that we did what we felt we had to do, and if I had it to do all over again, I would do exactly the same thing. I would be just as tough and aggressive as I could to make certain that those individuals, who wished us harm, and who were prepared to kill thousands of Americans to achieve a political objective, got what they had coming to them.
And I think it was the right thing to do. And I don't have much tolerance or patience for those who suggest now the benefit of hindsight eight years later, and who they have forgotten what in fact happened on 9/11. It was the right thing to do.
The threat is still out there. We need to maintain our capabilities and it's absolutely essential we not forget what happened then, or what others are prepared to do with us. Just imagine, just imagine what would happen if you had 19 men in the middle of two of our major cities, not armed with airline tickets and box cutters, but with a nuclear weapon, or dose of plague or some other deadly biological instrument. That's the kind of world we live in and any administration or government that doesn't deal effectively with that threat, I don't think would be doing its job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, Cheney was answering questions after presenting several awards for outstanding press coverage of the U.S. presidency and national defense.
On a related topic, there is another voice now calling for a national truth commission to investigate detainee abuses, among other things. And it may surprise you to find out who this person is. General Rick Sanchez, United States Army, the former commander of all armed forces in Iraq. He is now saying that Iraq was an institutional failure. We will talk to him about that. He is joining me. We have had him booked since last week, interestingly enough. He will be here tomorrow. An exclusive interview with General Rick Sanchez.
Interesting. Rick Sanchez with Rick Sanchez. >
We know it's cliche but sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Check this one out. We have got more than the picture. We've got the actual video. You're going to see the goring from the bull and the matador flying in the air. Wow.
Then Sonia Sotomayor ruling that may have kept white fire fighters - think about this one, white firefighters from getting a promotion. Republicans say it's not fair. What does the law say? We're looking at both.
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SANCHEZ: One of the explosive talking points all over the blogs last week, and on the Sunday morning shows yesterday, was the interview you saw on this show with Tom Tancredo where he compared La Raza to the KKK. All of this, or course, stemming from a conversation having to do with Sonia Sotomayor. Now, I asked the same questions, or tried to, of Tom Delay of Texas. This was Friday. I want you to watch his responses about trying to bring moderation to the Republican Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I don't think you're agreeing with Tancredo but you're coming darned close.
TOM DELAY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Now, don't do that to me. That's not fair.
SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You said La Raza is a leftist organization that doesn't in any way represent Hispanics?
DELAY: Does not represent the majority of Hispanics that I know in Texas. That's for sure. They are leftist -- where was La Raza and LULAC when the Democrats were trashing Miguel Estrada, a fantastic human being, nominated for the bench. And they were just trashing him all over this country? Where was La Raza?
SANCHEZ: So you're saying --
DELAY: La Raza was not there because Miguel Estrada was a conservative, constructionist judge.
SANCHEZ: Let me give you another chance to answer the question that I first said to you at the very beginning of this. Given the fact that there seems to be this negative energy going on in this country, sir, between Republicans and Hispanics, given the tone that was set with the Sotomayor thing, given what Tancredo has said - because he didn't say what you said. He compared them with the KKK and given what Rush Limbaugh saying Tuesday, we really don't need the Hispanic party (sic). Do you think that somebody in the Hispanic party - pardon me, somebody in the Republican Party, should stand up and disagree with that. And say, guys cool your heels a little bit.
DELAY: No, I think, anybody can say whatever they want to say, and they have to suffer the consequences of what they say. My point is that we need to be looking at Judge Sotomayor as, what is her world view, what is her judicial temperament. What kind of person she is, not what kind of Hispanic she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I want to bring in somebody now, Dahlia Lithwick, she is the senior editor and legal correspondent for "Slate" magazine.
Dahlia, thank you for being with us.
DAHLIA LITHWICK, SR. EDITOR, "SLATE": Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: Does that heated rhetoric that we're hearing from so many Republicans match Sonia Sotomayor's record?
LITHWICK: No. And it's unfortunate, Rick, because she has quite a record. She's been on the bench for 18 years. She's written hundreds and hundreds of opinions. I think if she was some kind of lunatic activist who subordinated the law to her race or her gender, we would have pretty good evidence of that. We have no such evidence because her entire record is incredibly temperate, incredibly moderate. One might almost say minimalist and narrow. These talking points that are coming out of space.
SANCHEZ: But wait, hold on. Let me stop you on that. Because there's a lot of disagreement with people, and look, these are not people who are lawyers. Not following the legal dictum, but just looking at the case and saying, you know that New England case. How can you rule that these white guys shouldn't be able to get a job, or a promotion, after they passed the test and had the best scores? How can she make that ruling?
LITHWICK: And I think, Rick, that's why so much energy and attention is focused on this Ricci case, this New Haven case, because it looks to be -- if you're going to look at it as a Rorschach test - evidence that she is really pro-affirmative action and hates white guys.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it does.
LITHWICK: But if you dig back a little and look at how this case came about, in 2003, the city of New Haven says we have to do this written promotions test to make our guys officers. They offer the test and no African-Americans pass. The city of New Haven looks at the civil rights statute, at Title 7, and says, Ah! We're going to get sued by the African-Americans under this civil rights statute unless we scuttle the test results. That is what New Haven did. They applied the statue, right or wrong, whatever you think of the civil rights statute.
SANCHEZ: And she affirmed that, so she was basically going along with the law? She wasn't making law.
LITHWICK: That's right. The district court affirmed it. She affirmed the district court. You have this whole chain of people that say, my hands are tied. And in fact, the three-judge panel that she was on said, my God, Frank Ricci is a really sympathetic guy, we feel bad. But the law is the law, our hands are tied.
SANCHEZ: Isn't that what Republicans want her to be though? Aren't Republicans, in fact Democrats both saying we don't want activist judges, we want judges that will rule by the law, regardless of what they want to do. It seems like she did that in this case.
LITHWICK: She absolutely did. And I don't think there's another way to read it. If she had done the opposite, which is man, this law sucks, I'm just going to twist it around a little, so Frank Ricci can win, we would be going ballistic. I think it goes to the point that there's no such word as "judicial activism". It's a word that we use when we don't like the results.
SANCHEZ: That's an interesting take on this and you have explained it very, very well to those of us who are not legal theorists and don't get it.
My thanks, to you. I appreciate it.
LITHWICK: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, the very latest on what an apology is and what happens if you have to apologize to the matador, and you a bull. This is crazy, we'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer standing by now for us. He is in Washington.
Wolf, any chance that the Sotomayor hearings will take place sooner than later?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I think they've got everything organized in the meantime. As you know, the White House would like to see it resolved so that she can take her seat as early as September, or first Monday in October. But it is by no means a done deal. These things take time. They've got to do a lot of vetting and the Senate Judiciary Committee has got to go through a lot of process. We're going to have the latest on what's going on.
As you know she's getting ready to start meeting with senators, Republicans and Democrats, members of Judiciary Committee tomorrow. So that's going to be a process. These things take time. It's a lifelong appointment, as you know, the nomination, so they deserve to go over her record very, very carefully.
SANCHEZ: All right. Wolf Blitzer is going to be checking on that and he'll be following the big three stories of the day, including that apparent plane crash off the coast of Brazil.
Look forward to it, Wolf, my thanks to you.
By the way, this is one thing that a lot of people go to a hockey game for, a fight breaks out, right? Some people want to see the fight. Some people can't wait for that inevitable NASCAR crash. And watch what I'm about to show you. This one is painful. Take a look at what happens to a Spanish matador. This is Israel Lancho.
I think you know what's coming, right? Yes. Oh, my goodness, is he ever gored there. This happened last Wednesday. It is in Madrid. Lancho now in critical condition. He's got a deep gash in his stomach. Luckily not his heart. I don't know if you saw it, but that bull already had several swords in it and the blood gushing. The bull was put down. The matador is expected to recover in the end.
We'll be right back with your comments and there are plenty of them. Stay with us. We'll be here.
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SANCHEZ: Boy, a lot of comments on that video we just showed you moments ago. Let's go to it.
Barkway says: "They should have put the matador down and saved the bull. Barbaric, cruel, sport.
And finally, Electiongazette says: "It looks painful. That's why I would never get in the ring with a bull."
My thanks to all of you for staying along with us today and making so many wonderful comments. We look forward to seeing you again tomorrow right here.
In the meantime, I'll take things up to Washington now where my colleague Wolf Blitzer is standing by and ready to bring you "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rick, thanks very much.
Happening now: The search for a huge commercial jetliner that vanished over the Atlantic. What happened to the plane and more than 200 people on board. This hour, a terrifying mystery and what it says about airline safety.
Dick Cheney, unplugged. Again, the former vice president offers his insight and no excuses on torture allegations, secrecy, and same- sex marriage.
And the price of GM's bankruptcy. New information about factories closing, jobs lost and billions more in taxpayer dollars to keep the automaker running.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in CNN's command center for breaking news, politics and extraordinary reports from around the world. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
