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Nancy Grace
Mother Disappears With 3-Year-Old Daughter and Sex Offender
Aired June 09, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Mommy meets a convicted sex offender in jail. That`s right, he`s behind bars. Sex offender released. Within hours, Mommy takes off on a so-called camping trip to the remote and rugged terrain, central Ohio. What did they take? Food, water, provisions and Mommy`s 3-year-old baby girl. Yes, as we go to air, authorities unable to reach or locate the trio. Baby Haylee Donathan tonight, according to police, in extreme danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An endangered child alert has been issued for 3- year-old Haylee Donathan, who was last seen with her mother and a registered sex offender. Police say Haylee was last spotted May 28th with her mother, Candace Watson, and Watson`s boyfriend, Robbi Potter, who was released from prison that same day. Potter was serving time for sexual battery of a minor and was not allowed to be near any children. Investigators say it`s possible they could be taking the child to a private campground in central Ohio and plan to search those areas. Haylee last seen wearing a white T-shirt with Minnie Mouse on the front and light purple shorts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also, breaking news, Madison, Illinois. Mommy heads out for baby clothes, leaving her 5-month-old baby boy safe at home with a sitter, or so she thinks. When Mommy gets home just hours later, the house empty. Police on a multi-state alert for the alleged baby-sitter turned kidnapper, a baby-sitter who secretly wanted a baby of her own.
As we go to air, breaking news, 5-month-old Cortez has just been found alive nearly 400 miles away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of missing 5-month-old Cortez Rose. Little Cortez Rose has been found alive in Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His mom says she let 17-year-old Danielle Medina, who came to the area from New York with her boyfriend a few months ago, take the baby for a walk. They left this home in the 1500 block of Fifth Street in Madison and never came back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) hoping she`s watching, she can see how hurt I am (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have reported seeing the pair at a bus stop in Granite City and most recently at the Orr-Weathers and Norman E. Owens housing project in East St. Louis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: United States Marshals reportedly said baby-sitter Danielle Medina and Cortez Rose were found in a house with 13 people inside. An informant allegedly led investigators to the home. Little Cortez will now reportedly be placed in DCS custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shipped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. The defense fighting tooth and nail to keep secret tot mom`s reaction watching live TV the day Caylee`s remains discovered, tot mom allegedly hyperventilating, asking for medication for herself. It`s all on video. The sheriffs say tot mom pretends to cry but never manages to squeeze out a tear. She also claims she`s nauseous, but she never throws up. Then two Orange County sheriffs swear under oath watching tot mom watching TV was, quote, "cruel." What? Cruel? She orders up expensive treats for herself, she sleeps, she lounges, she watches TV all day long. What`s cruel? What`s cruel is the murder of 2-year-old Caylee!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw them escort her. They (INAUDIBLE) both sides. There was a correctional officer on both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went to Ms. Anthony`s cell and had them put her in restraints for the escort.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As she walked over toward the stairway that descended to her room, which was directly above me, she had tears in her eyes and she was screaming, I`m pissed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did break down and cry in there. We could see that she was crying. He asked for tissues. She definitely was holding her head in her hands, crying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looked directly into my room and said, Help me. At that point, I mean, I didn`t really know what to do. There was nothing I could do to help her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was showing some emotional distress at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was visibly upset.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was still breathing rapidly, talking really fast, but not -- nothing really about the case, just that, you know, This isn`t surreal. I can`t cry. I can`t break down and cry because this isn`t real. And then she started talking about football.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometime during the time she was missing, before the remains were found, did...
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: You know something? If you say "the remains" one more time, sir, I`m walking out this door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: How dare you say that about my granddaughter? How dare you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re being chased by George and Cindy Anthony. (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Why? Why are they chasing you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we caught them stealing a memorial cross down at the site, and we took a picture that we put up. And we took a picture of them. And now they`re trying to block us in the street and everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Mommy meets a convicted sex offender in jail. That`s right, he`s behind bars when the romance starts. Sex offender released. Within hours, Mommy takes off on a so-called camping trip to the remote and rugged terrain in central Ohio. What do they take? Food, water, provisions and Mommy`s 3-year-old baby girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are desperately searching for a 3-year-old girl who they say may be in danger. Little Haylee Donathan was seen May 28th with her mother and her mother`s sex offender boyfriend, who was just released from prison hours earlier. The boyfriend, Robbi Potter, was released from prison after serving less than three years for sexual battery of a minor. Potter was not allowed to be around children, and a warrant has been issued for his arrest. Authorities say they may be in a 1988 blue or black Chevy pickup, possibly going to private campgrounds in central Ohio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Matt Bruning with Newstalk 610 WTVN. Matt, what happened?
MATT BRUNING, NEWSTALK 610 WTVN (via telephone): Well, Nancy, as you described at the top of the show there, it appears that Haylee Donathan with her mother, Candace Watson, 24 years old -- apparently, her mother met this convicted sex offender, Robbi Potter, a couple of days ago through Candace`s brother. We understand they are in a relationship that`s fairly new. Last they were heard from was the grandmother heard from Candace on May 31st, is what she`s told us -- or what she told police in Crestline. That`s in Crawford County in north central Ohio. And best we can tell, they went to a camping site in Delaware County, which is just north of Columbus, according to police. And so far, no one has heard from them since -- May 31st was the last time.
GRACE: OK. Matt Zarrell, on the story, let`s break it down. Matt Bruning is correct. It was a new relationship. He was behind bars. How long have they known each other, Matt?
MATTHEW ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: As far as we know, it`s just two or three days, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Two or three days. To Mark Hillman -- we need a shrink - - clinical psychotherapist joining us in New York, author of "My Therapist Is Making Me Nuts." Weigh in very quickly. Mommy meets a guy behind bars. She`s not behind bars. She meets him through a relative who`s with Volunteer America...
MARK HILLMAN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Sex offenders...
GRACE: ... a registered sex predator on children. I`ve got his rap sheet right here. She knows he`s got a history. He`s behind bars, all right? He gets out of jail, Hillman. Within a couple of hours, she takes off with the sex predator and takes along the 3-year-old baby girl. Help me, Dr. Hillman.
HILLMAN: Sex offenders are master manipulators, and obviously, he seduced Candace into devoting his love...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Back it up. Back it up, Doctor. I`m just a trial lawyer. How do you seduce somebody when you`re on two different sides of a plastic sheet?
HILLMAN: Well, you know, he can confess his innocence. He can certainly encourage the nurturing and the attachment of, I care for you, I`ve reformed my ways. And clearly, what ends up happening is that there`s a callous disregard for anything. So he seduces her. She gets attached. He gets out. And now they take off. His objective is that little girl, Haylee.
GRACE: Let`s go out to special guest Chief Tim McClaran. He is with the Crestline Police Department. Chief, thank you for being with us. Chief, can you explain to me, how far away is this camping area we believe they`re headed toward?
CHIEF TIM MCCLARAN, CRESTLINE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Originally we thought she was going to the Delaware area, which is about 70 miles south of Crestline. But we have traced her activities out to Stratton, Colorado, at this point.
GRACE: And how far away would that be?
MCCLARAN: I don`t know how far that`d be. We think she`s headed for possibly the Phoenix, Arizona, area.
GRACE: Headed for Phoenix, Arizona? Liz, as quickly as you can, pull me up a map. And also, Liz, let`s take a look at Mommy and registered sex offender. Now, let me get this straight. Chief McClaran, Mommy does have custody, right?
MCCLARAN: That`s correct.
GRACE: All right. Then how, Chief, did you find out Mommy had taken off with a sex predator and her 3-year-old little girl?
MCCLARAN: We had a report from her roommate. And then the mother of Candace called and came on station and made a report.
GRACE: Back to Matt Zarrell. The two met behind bars. And how did the, let me say, romance proceed?
ZARRELL: Well, our understanding is that the brother, who worked at the jail for Volunteer America, in his desk drawer contained a phone number for the mom, Candace Watson. And apparently, Potter got into the drawer, got the phone number, and that`s when he contacted her.
GRACE: You know what, Matt? I don`t care how he manages to get her phone number. It`s her responsibility to take care of her child. Marc Klaas, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: ... society`s responsibility to protect us from these third-tier sex predators. This guy is a known quantity. We know that he`s going to reoffend and he`s going to reoffend as soon as he possibly can. We made it easy for him. If we`re going to let guys like this out on the street, we have to fit them with ankle bracelets and GPS bracelets. They`re very sophisticated. They can`t be tampered with. And we`d know exactly where he is right now.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, it`s not just one offense -- 2002, unlawful sex conduct with a minor, dismissed. Two counts sex battery 2005. Interference with custody. Three years on each count of sex battery, 2002, aiding and abetting, bank robbery, convicted. January `06, violated supervision, back in custody.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: He`s done local time. He`s done federal time, Nancy. And now three days out of jail, and he`s on the run again with a warrant for him right now. That`s the reason that there is a lookout for them. But the reason there`s no Amber Alert is because her mother has custody of her.
GRACE: Crestline, Ohio, to Phoenix, Arizona, 2,000 miles in the car with a 3-year-old girl and a convicted sex predator.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, Mom, I`ll be -- I just dropped him off, and I`ll be there and I`ll talk to you when I get there, and hung up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was the last time Mary Watson spoke to her daughter, Candace. She and her 4-year-old granddaughter, Haylee Donathan, were supposed to be on a camping trip with this man, Robbi Potter, a tier-three sex offender recently released from prison and living in a halfway house. The three were supposed to be back in Crestline more than a week ago, but they have yet to return or even call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody is sick and worried to death about them. Don`t know if they`re dead or alive, and scared that something`s happened to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crestline police have been investigating the disappearance. Chief Tim McClaran says since Haylee is with her mother, they cannot issue an Amber Alert. But Potter could be arrested for a parole violation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tip line, 419-683-2222. Chief McClaran believes the three, the trio, are headed either to Phoenix, Arizona, or Stratton, Colorado, Phoenix 2,000 miles away, Stratton 1,100 miles away, about 18 hours away. We are taking your calls live.
Right now, special guest joining me, the grandmother of baby Haylee, Mary Watson. Ms. Watson, thank you for being with us. How long have they been gone?
MARY WATSON, GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): The last time that I talked to her was Sunday. I haven`t seen her since Friday.
GRACE: So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, five days. She hasn`t...
WATSON: No...
GRACE: What?
WATSON: It`s been longer than that. It`s been 11 days now.
GRACE: Oh, a week prior to that. I see. Ms. Watson, has she ever been gone this long without calling?
WATSON: No.
GRACE: So does she have a cell phone with her, Ms. Watson?
WATSON: Yes.
GRACE: Do you know whether police have tried to locate her via her cell phone?
WATSON: As far as I know, but it`s off. It`s shut off.
GRACE: Oh, no. OK. What about an ATM or a credit card, Ms. Watson?
WATSON: I don`t know anything -- she has her bank card, as far as I know.
GRACE: Why would she be headed to Phoenix or Stratton? What`s there?
WATSON: I don`t know anything about Stratton. Phoenix -- she used to live in Phoenix, Arizona, and she knows people out there. But otherwise I don`t know.
GRACE: Ms. Watson, what got into her, to romance a convicted sex offender from behind bars? I mean, she knew he was in prison for a sex offense with a minor.
WATSON: No, she did not know.
GRACE: Well, didn`t she meet him behind bars?
WATSON: No. As far as I know, she did not. He has manipulated her.
GRACE: OK. Hold on just a moment. Ma`am, he just got out from behind bars. Matt Zarrell, how did they meet?
ZARRELL: They met -- she was behind bars -- he was behind bars. He was behind bars.
GRACE: And how did the romance, let me just say, the spark between them, become ignited?
ZARRELL: He was able to get the phone number off the brother, who`s a resident at the jail.
GRACE: And how soon after he gets out of jail do they take off?
ZARRELL: That same day, hours later.
GRACE: Did she pick him up from the jail?
ZARRELL: Not sure.
GRACE: Don`t know. OK. Out to the lines. Doris, California. Hi, Doris.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to say congratulations on your show, and your twins are adorable.
GRACE: They are my world. They are my world, Doris. And the thought of either one of them being in the car with a convicted sex predator is making me crazy. I want to rip this microphone off and race home right now just to make sure they`re asleep. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. My question is, Nancy, you can tell, evidently, that she has a very low self-esteem. My question is, has she had any -- or has she ever been or has she ever used drugs? Does she have a history?
GRACE: Ms. Watson, does she have any history of drug use or any type of instability?
WATSON: Yes, before, she has.
GRACE: Which one?
WATSON: Drug use before.
GRACE: Is she still using drugs, to your knowledge?
WATSON: Not that I know of.
GRACE: Do you know what drug it was?
WATSON: She was on crystal meth before.
GRACE: Oh, no. OK. When did she get off meth?
WATSON: It`s been over a year ago, as far as I know.
GRACE: Who kept the baby, baby Haylee, while she was on meth?
WATSON: I had her. She was in my custody.
GRACE: So you took care of her. I`m getting the picture now, Ms. Watson. God bless you for loving that little granddaughter the way that you do. Did she give you any explanation as to why she was taking off for a so-called camping trip, Ms. Watson?
WATSON: No.
GRACE: Nothing at all? Did she even tell you where she was going?
WATSON: No.
GRACE: Everybody, the tip line, please, 419-683-2222. Police say baby Haylee is in extreme danger. She is in the car with a convicted sex predator.
Everyone, very quickly, tonight`s "Case Alert." The body of a child found on the banks of the River Raisin has now officially been named as missing 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan, Nevaeh found by a local fisherman June 4, buried and covered in cement. If you have information, please, please call 734-243-7070.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-year-old Haylee Donathan was last seen May 28th, and police are concerned she could be in serious danger. Police say Haylee was with her mother and mother`s sex offender boyfriend, Robbi Potter, and she hasn`t been seen since. Potter, who was just released from prison that same day, was serving time for sexual battery on a minor and was not allowed to be near children. Police have issued an arrest warrant for Potter and continue to search for Haylee, who may be traveling in a 1988 blue or black Chevy pickup that could be headed to private campgrounds in the central Ohio area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers -- Robin Sax, prosecutor and author, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Joseph Lawless, defense attorney and lawyer of "Prosecutorial Misconduct" out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction. Ray Giudice, how much trouble is he in?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, kidnapping, murder, capital homicide. This is a death penalty case, if that`s a death penalty state. I could see maximum prosecution in this case.
GRACE: Well, don`t you think we should wait on a body first?
GIUDICE: Oh, I`m sorry. I`m sorry, Nancy. I jumped ahead to the other story, and I apologize. This guy`s got a parole and probation violation. I`m sure the conditions of his parole limit him from having any contact with any minor child.
GRACE: Yes. Let me go back to my original question. Lawless, let`s give you a crack at it. What`s he looking at?
JOSEPH LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He`s looking at being maxed on the probation violation, whatever his original sentence was, plus the additional charges which would probably -- I don`t know if it would be kidnapping. It would certainly be endangering a child...
GRACE: No, it wouldn`t be kidnapping, Robin. Lawless is right. Because the mom has custody.
LAWLESS: Right. Whatever they charge him with, if he`s molested this child, and I`m not optimistic, he`s going away for a long time.
GRACE: Robin...
LAWLESS: And that`s the problem. He knows he`s in trouble.
GRACE: Robin Sax?
ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR: Yes, I`m here.
GRACE: What`s he looking at?
SAX: He`s definitely looking at violations of parole and probation. And it could be a kidnap, if for whatever reason, they can show that the mom was taken against her will.
GRACE: To April in Indiana. Hi, April.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love the show.
GRACE: Oh, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for what you do. A previous caller just answered about an Amber Alert that was issued.
GRACE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I now want to know, could we possibly get something with the law that maybe we can go ahead and issue an Amber Alert (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: What about it, Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: The thing is, is that -- is that because she`s the mother, they`re not issuing the Amber Alert. I think these things need to be broken down as predatory and non-predatory situations. This is definitely predatory. This definitely rises...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stunning developments just moments ago in the case of 5-month-old Cortez Rose, allegedly abducted by babysitter Danielle Medina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main concern is the safety of the child. She was left in care of the child and was last seen with the stroller, with the baby and the diaper bag in Madison pushing the baby towards granite.
She has no cell phone. They have no contact with her since she left with the child. We`re concerned for the baby`s health and well being. Weather down here is not very good. It`s raining. There`s thunderstorm. There`s lightning. She`s got a diaper bag. She`s got a stroller. Maybe two diapers in there. She has no money. So that is a big concern for us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little Cortez has been found alive. Cortez and babysitter Danielle Medina were found by United States Marshals in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. An informant reportedly led authorities to the house where Cortez and Medina were located. According to reports, 13 other people were inside the home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Straight out to Nicole Partin, investigative reporter, how far away had she gotten?
(ON THE PHONE)
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy. We know that she had made it to Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
GRACE: Ft. Wayne, Indiana. And how did she get there, Nicole?
PARTIN: We still don`t have that information. We know that there are people who say they saw her at different bus stations and bus stops along the way. But we`re still not sure how she made it the several hundred miles away.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, what was the condition of the baby?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, according to sources we`re just hearing from as we go to air tonight, the child was heard crying in the background on the phone call to the local law enforcement officer. He said it was the sweetest sound he ever heard.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Carla in California. Hi, Carla.
CARLA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CARLA: I`m sitting in bed, I have the flu, and I`m watching in amazement is, how do these women leave their children with absolute strangers and expect anything good to come from it? Why are these women also not charged with child endangerment or child neglect?
GRACE: You know, I want to go back to the lawyers. Robin Sax, Ray Giudice, Joe Lawless.
Robin Sax, she`s right. This woman had no idea about the babysitter`s background and the babysitter took off almost immediately. Then we find out she has secretly been telling people she wanted a baby of her own, even fabricating the lie that she herself was pregnant.
ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR OF "PREDATORS & CHILD MOLESTERS": Absolutely. We`re sitting here and spending much time focusing on the people who have actually taken the child. But we`re not looking at the mothers who are responsible for the children. And they should absolutely be subjected to some sort of child endangerment.
Unfortunately, we see this as a case for Department of Child and Family Services or CPS and not enough action in our criminal justice system.
GRACE: To Ray Giudice, in fact, Child Protective Service has the baby tonight. Do you believe it will go back to the mother?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think so. And I just want to pick up on that point. It is now so easy to go online and check neighborhoods where sexual predators live. Check people`s criminal histories. If you`re going to give a child over to a babysitter, get a driver`s license and date of birth, Social Security and check it.
It`s so easy that I think that can start to have criminal ramifications for prosecution for negligence.
GRACE: Lawless?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": I think that depends on the situation of the mother. Some people don`t have computers. Some people are desperate trying to get work, need to find a place to put their child, some kind of childcare. I think it depends on the circumstances.
GRACE: I want to go.
LAWLESS: Possibly criminal prosecution but not always.
GRACE: Back to the conditions under which the baby was found. Tonight, proof again, there is a god. This 5-month-old baby has been found alive. This after mommy leaves to obtain baby clothes. Comes back, the house is empty. Babysitter and baby both gone.
Since then, the babysitter has turned up at various bus stations across the country to make it nearly 400 miles away from home. She did this, Clark Goldband, apparently with very little or no money, no provisions, nothing.
What was the child eating? And what was her destination?
GOLDBAND: And Nancy, not only no money, but our understanding as well is no cell phone. In fact, the U.S. Marshalls had been on the case for about the past 24 to 48 hours. They were somehow able to trap her cell phone number. And by tracking her cell phone number, they were able to find a lead on this house. When they arrived at the home, apparently 13 people were in the house at Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
GRACE: To Terry in Tennessee. Hi, Terry.
CHERRY, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Yes, hi, Nancy, this is Cherry. I love your show.
GRACE: Cherry, thank you -- thank you for calling in, dear.
CHERRY: I would like to know how does she know this teenager and why would she leave this teenager babysitter knowing that she was talking about she wanted a kid of her own?
GRACE: Well, Cherry, I don`t think the mom knew she had been talking about how she wanted a baby of her own or that she had actually fabricated a lie and told a lot of people, she herself was pregnant. I mean right there, red flag of alarm.
What about it, Clark Goldband?
GOLDBAND: New information this evening tells us that, in fact, she never slept in the house, Nancy, as reported last night. She apparently wandered in and out of the house for the past few days with an acquaintance of the family, took the baby. Family saw that. And they didn`t stop her. They thought she would return.
GRACE: Baby Cortez Rose, alive. In custody of the state, tonight.
Right now, a special salute to Dr. John Taylor. At 88 years young, Baptist preacher his whole life, now retired. Competing with 450 other athletes to complete a rigorous triathlon. He made it across the finish line. His goal? To be the first in the USA over 90 to compete in a USA Triathlon Association approved triathlon.
Here, he is with his family. Dr. Taylor, keep the faith and congratulations. You inspire us.
And tonight, our prayers with the family of Mrs. Martha Sorell Young Himerling (ph), 89. A lifelong member of her little Methodist church, Liberty, where she was the church pianist for years. President of United Methodist Women, president of Camilla Garden Club.
She graduated Miller High. Middle Georgia College. She was proceeded in death by husband, James Young. Leaves behind husband, Joe Himerling, daughter, Marcia, Marcia young Johnston. Her family including five great grandchildren.
Martha Young Himerling, a most gentle, sweet, and caring lady who touched the lives of all around her, in heaven tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we`re turning left on Lee Vista. We`re turning right on Lee Vista Boulevard we`re being chased by George and Cindy Anthony and Sherri and Ron Milstead.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Lee Vista and where?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just turned on left Lee Vista.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Ma`am, I can`t hear you. What is that noise? I can`t hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She can`t hear me. We`re coming up to the CVS on, what is the street? On Narcoossee. We`re taking a left on Narcoossee. We`re being chased by George and Cindy Anthony. They blocked us off and everything.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Why? Why are they chasing you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we caught them stealing a memorial cross down at the site and we took a picture that we put up. And we took a picture of them. And now they`re trying to block us in the street and everything.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: What kind of car are they in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George is in his black car, the door is locked. Oh my god, they`re right behind us and they have got their flashing lights.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: What kind of car are they in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George`s car, his black car, whatever his black car is.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Ma`am, who is -- ma`am, who is that -- ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s somebody in the car, there are four of us and we`re hysterical, four women in the car and they`re chasing us.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Would you please ask them to stop screaming?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Go by that cop, go by to that cop. We found a cop. We saw the cop and we`re pulling right up to them.
UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: OK.
LT. TAMMY UNSER, ORANGE COUNTRY CORRECTIONS: She walked into the medical clinic and immediately looked at the TV which was on Channel 9 broadcasting the breaking news and she collapsed into the chair and started to what appeared to be hyperventilating.
She lost her breath. We told her a couple times, take some deep breaths. She was -- had real shallow breathing. Her hands started to sweat. She started rubbing them profusely. She was in waist chains and handcuffs and she kept saying the waist chains are getting tighter and tighter an me. Please loosen them. We told her we couldn`t because we knew they weren`t tight when she sat down in the chair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. Ellie, we first heard apparently a 911 call were people were saying George and Cindy Anthony were chasing them?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Yes. This happened last week. A group of women had left a cross at that makeshift memorial where Caylee`s remains were found. Apparently they had done it before the cross had been taken.
So this time they left the cross and then they staked out the area to see who took the crosses. Apparently they were then confronted by somebody from Kid Finders. They drove away. A little bit later they say George and Cindy Anthony were chasing them. Eventually they found a cop. The cop told everybody to just go home. Now we found out today there`s not going to be any criminal charges for this incident.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who will be under oath in this case. Leonard, why would the family want the memorials taken down?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL CASE: I -- when Lois and Denise talked to me, they told me that it had been taken down. And then we watched some of the media reports. And that it had all been taken down. In fact, they even found a rosary that had been kind of thrown off into the brush.
And I asked them to mail it to me, which they did. And then the incident that you were just talking about took place when they went back out, they put out a cross and then it was taken. So they went back out, put another one.
And actually I was on the phone with them when they started being chased. I told them, I says, hang up the phone, call 911 before you guys get hurt. And.
GRACE: But why -- my question is, why would the family want the memorial taken down?
PADILLA: Nancy, I`m telling you, the more you deal with this case and Cindy, the more absurd it gets. I mean it just, sometimes people -- just they act un-normal. And I think that`s what Cindy is going. You know I keep going back to the Cindyisms. But it just seems like she would be thankful that somebody would be remembering her granddaughter and at least putting up a cross or something.
She just -- I don`t know what it is with her.
GRACE: Let`s go to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. I want to turn topics and go to what two sheriffs said under oath. Jailhouse sheriffs. Remember the day there was live coverage of the discovery of little Caylee`s remains and tot mom was brought into a common area outside of sick bay and she saw the live coverage.
Now, in their deposition, the sheriffs say that she -- acted like she was crying but she did not squeeze out a tear. She claims she was nauseous but never got sick. Now the defense is claiming it was cruel treatment? Explain.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, those two officers were actually recently deposed by Jose Baez. And in those depositions they kind of admitted that what they thought happened to Casey that day was cruel. They questioned their supervisors whether that had to keep happening.
What we`re talking about here is her viewing news coverage that those remains had been found. They said it went on for about 30 to 45 minutes. And after a while the news coverage was repetitive and they felt like it had gone too far and asked supervisors if it really had to continue this way.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Franny, New Jersey. Hi, Franny.
FRANNY, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
FRANNY: I just wanted to know if they do not put the memorial out because then that would, in effect, be stating that they believe their daughter`s guilty?
GRACE: Interesting. What about that? To Dr. Mark Hillman.
MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "MY THERAPIST IS MAKING ME NUTS": The memorial -- this family has been destroyed. The memorial, I think, is a reminder of the loss of the family and I think what ends up happening is that the Anthonys are acting out of anger.
That`s the second stage of the grieving process. First it was denial. And now it`s anger. And so to vent in a appropriate way other than George, looking to go to a hotel with a suicide note and Cindy acting out. So I think their acting out is they relive the trauma every single day with the news coverage.
GRACE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I want to go to Marc Klaas, founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Marc, we know that behind bars tot mom has a huge bank account. Strangers, men, from all around the country send her money. She buys up expensive treats for herself, lounges, sleeps, watches TV, reads.
I`m very surprised that jailhouse sheriffs, law enforcement, would call it cruel that she was allowed to see coverage of the discovery of her child`s remains.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I agree. But first I`d like to commend the doctor for his words just now, because I, too, had to deal with a memorial in Polly`s situation and I hated that location. And I couldn`t have been happier when people stopped visiting it.
Now, as far as her being videotaped during the discovery of the little girl`s remains, you know, as far as I`m concerned, she murdered her child. I have absolutely no sympathy for this woman whatsoever. She deserves absolutely everything that`s coming to her.
She`s done nothing but deceive and lie and be deceitful from the moment that the little girl was reported missing. So, you know, I think it could be interpreted a couple of ways. That she realized they were on to her or, that, in fact, remains were discovered near her home and, say, theoretically she didn`t do it, that would be a very harsh realization in itself. But feel sorry for her? Nah.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Robin Sax, Raymond Giudice, Joe Lawless.
Ray Giudice, there is absolutely nothing cruel whatsoever about allowing her to watch TV. In fact, the lawyers argued, the sheriff said it was repetitive? So that`s the cruel part?
GIUDICE: Nancy.
GRACE: She never cried. She didn`t throw up. In fact, she started talking about a football series.
GIUDICE: To look at your quote on there that`s been on the screen, the jail officers` opinion that this is cruel is legally irrelevant. But their opinion, and that`s a phrase that you quoted, that it`s highly unusual, plays right into Mr. Baez`s motion that that was a setup by the jail and maybe in cahoots with the prosecution to get something into evidence.
GRACE: You know what? I really resent the way you said that. In cahoots? Because the state gathering evidence is what prosecutors and law enforcement are paid to do.
GIUDICE: And when they do it improperly, it`s a mistrial.
GRACE: They are not in cahoots. And Mr. Giudice, can you name one constitutional violation in what happens?
GIUDICE: Yes, absolutely.
GRACE: What?
GIUDICE: If the prosecution tries to set up a response to using the evidence by an unusual -- it says highly unusual. That was not normal jail procedure.
GRACE: I want to see Giudice. OK. Mr. Giudice, that is an inaccurate description of the law. Because, Robin Sax, isn`t it true that someone can even be tricked into a confession as long as they have been given Miranda rights and the constitution has been adhered to?
There is absolutely no constitutional violation whatsoever, and putting her in a common area where there`s a TV and seeing how she reacts.
SAX: That`s absolutely correct. As a matter of fact, in sexual assault cases we do pretext calls all the time in which we put people on the phone with their potential perpetrators and see what statements they`re going to say.
Just because someone doesn`t like it doesn`t mean that it`s inadmissible. And further, this is just another attempt of the Baez team trying to use the videos as some sort of mock to throw up in the air to see if it will stick.
GRACE: Giudice, that`s two strikes in about 30 minutes. One more -- you`re a baseball fan. You`re out. Lawless, weigh in.
LAWLESS: I think what the purpose of the taping wasn`t to get evidence, Nancy. The purpose was to get a reaction.
GRACE: That is evidence.
LAWLESS: Not support, but to leak to the media. To create a presumption of guilt.
GRACE: You know, Lawless, I wish I didn`t ask because.
LAWLESS: How did it get on television?
GRACE: It hasn`t been on television. Wake up. Go drink some coffee. It hasn`t been on TV. You`re not advancing this whatsoever. Her reaction has not been on TV. That`s what we`re talking about it, Lawless.
LAWLESS: The fact that it`s been.
GRACE: It`s gone to the judge to keep it.
LAWLESS: . talked about hasn`t been on television?
GRACE: . from being released.
Everyone, when we come back, we`ll be joined by handwriting analyst Roger Rubin, who analyzed tot mom`s handwriting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: First to Dr. Marty Makary. Welcome. What would explain the guard`s testimony that tot man began to get red, sweaty hands with bumps?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, this could be a part of a grieving response. Now we`ve seen inappropriate grieving response to her in several ways like the lack of crying or the lack of appropriate affect, but this may have been a mild episode of remembrance of her child, regardless of her potential involvement in the crime, and this was anxiety, the sweaty palms, the redness.
GRACE: Dr. Makary joining us from Johns Hopkins.
Right now, a renowned handwriting analyst, Roger Rubin is with us. Sir, thank you for being with us. You analyzed the writing of tot mom, the known handwriting of tot mom. What did you learn?
ROGER RUBIN, HANDWRITING ANALYST: Well, I looked at the writing and noticed that the spatial picture was extremely crowded. There`s no space between the lines. The space between the letters is extremely little narrow. The space between the words is extremely irregular and uneven.
And that suggests to me that is a woman who does not have clear boundaries at all. And therefore, she`s not able to see the needs or the reality of others, and this is the basis for narcissism. If you look at the size of the letters, and the writing relative to the space allowed, it shows extreme oversize, which, again, is the signal for the self- absorption, narcissistic self-indulgence and self-gratification.
This is a person who tends to, because of a lack of awareness, the space signifies a lack of awareness. It means that she lives in her own fantasy world. And consequently, makes up her own rules and her own regulations and her own sense of order. So this is a -- this is a person who can`t understand the differences between right and wrong.
GRACE: Roger Rubin, handwriting analyst, thank you for being with us.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Blaise Oleski, 22, Holland Patten, New York, killed Afghanistan. He had a wristband he wore at the time of his death that read "Fighting for Freedom." Talked of becoming a firefighter. Wanted to hike the Adirondack. Leaves behind parents Teresa and Paul, brother Bryce.
Blaise Oleski, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially for you, being with us. And a special good night from New York friend of the show, Sandra. Isn`t she beautiful?
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night friend.
END
