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Nancy Grace
Woman Cooks Meth in Home with Two Grandkids
Aired June 12, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Acting on a tip, police storm a private home, upscale neighborhood east of Baton Rouge, their worst fears realized. Cops say the home is a front for a major meth lab. Who`s running it? Granny is, with her two toddler children holding onto Granny`s apron strings. That`s right, Granny raising toddlers in a meth lab! Methamphetamine, one of the single most powerful, dangerous, potent and addictive substances to be found in the illegal drug underworld. Prosecutors set to throw the book at Granny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Grandma allegedly running a meth lab from her house while her grandkids are home? Two ladies were driving along the highway in Louisiana when they were pulled over by cops for improper lane use. Police say the women admitted they just came from a house that`s used to manufacture meth, the women taken into custody on narcotics charges, but cops immediately rush to the home. A grandma opens the door and says police can search. What they find are used meth labs and meth kits all over. Even more shocking, two little children. Police say an 18-month-old girl and a 4-year-old boy were inside the home, meth equipment being stored just feet away from where they slept. Tonight, Grandma in custody and kids with child services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, breaking news in the desperate search for a 2- year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony convince a judge to block release of Caylee`s autopsy, claiming it would be too upsetting, that autopsy report, up to an extraordinary 35 pages long, argued to be to inflammatory for the public to see. Why?
From inside the murder one investigation, just released in the last hours, reams of documents directly from the state`s case. Are George and Cindy Anthony now wracked with guilt? They never followed through with their threats, reportedly made over nearly two full years, to take custody of little Caylee away from tot mom, now accused of the 2-year-old`s murder. And is tot mom scheming -- scheming -- to set up an insanity defense from behind bars? Irrational behavior, alleged nightmares, blood-curdling screams coming from her jail cell, according to sources.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We`ve found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my God!
GRACE: George and Cindy Anthony fighting tooth and nail to keep the autopsy report a secret. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Anthonys now are claiming that they would suffer anguish.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: That was a painful time in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time I saw it, I didn`t think it was real, you know? And I looked at it and I examined it and I saw the duct tape, and I saw the eye sockets and I realized what it was. And I went, Oh, (DELETED).
CINDY ANTHONY: That was a cruel thing in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The autopsy report will eventually be a public record. It has to be used at the trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you talk at all to your granddaughter during those 31 days on the phone or text or anything like that?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: Well, number one is, my granddaughter`s only -- she was only 2 years old at the time. She doesn`t text.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I haven`t talked to my granddaughter -- I have not heard my granddaughter`s voice since June 16th of 2008. Do not ask me that again, sir, because I will walk out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Do not do that to me again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. I don`t want to make it hard on you.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, you are! Yes, you are!
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I need to be looked at as a victim, just as much of a victim as the rest of you. It hasn`t been portrayed that way and it probably won`t be. But I know that, and at least there are other people that know that and understand that.
CINDY ANTHONY: Because my next thing will be (INAUDIBLE) saying -- and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play this.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, then, you have...
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE)
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an all-American coed accused of taking part in the twisted and violent murder of her 21-year-old British roommate, American girl Amanda Knox on trial in an Italian courtroom for murder. In the last hours, U.S. co-ed turned accused killer Amanda Knox on the witness stand, claiming police beat her during questioning. And explaining away her changing stories to cops, she claims she was confused about the night her 21-year-old roommate was murdered in cold blood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Every once in a while (INAUDIBLE) there was a (INAUDIBLE) marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Knox defending herself against murder charges in an Italian courtroom. Twenty-one-year-old Meredith Kercher, a British exchange student, was found dead, half naked in her bed, with knife wound to her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police suggested Kercher had been killed during a drug-fueled sex game she resisted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Knox says the police are using statements that she made against her will.
KNOX: They called me a stupid liar and they said that I was trying to protect someone. So I was there, and they told me that I was trying to protect someone, but I wasn`t trying to protect anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Acting on a tip, police storm a private home, upscale neighborhood east of Baton Rouge. Their worst fears realized. Cops say the home is a front for a major meth lab. And who`s running it? Granny is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Grandma allegedly running a meth lab from her house while her grandkids are home? It started as a routine traffic stop for improper lane use but quickly turned into a shocking situation, the driver and passenger allegedly admitting to police that they just came from a home used to manufacture meth. Police say a grandmother lets them in to search a home. Not only do police find meth but an 18-month-old girl and a 4-year-old boy both living with Grandma. The three women facing a litany of charges, while the kids are now in protective custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to investigative reporter Leslie Snadowsky. Leslie, you can get meth all over the place. What concerns me is the two toddlers, one as young as 18 months old, being raised in a home that`s a front for a major methamphetamine lab.
LESLIE SNADOWSKY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): That`s right. These three women were all gathered not for a Tupperware party, Nancy, but a methamphetamine-making party. And of course, the kicker is the suspected ringleader, Katherine Arledge, she`s a grandmother and her grandkids were at the home at the time. We`re talking about an 18-month- old granddaughter, 4-year-old grandson. They do share a second bedroom in Arledge`s home, and agents at the scene reportedly found a garbage bag which contained used components of the meth lab, including six disposed one-pot method meth labs and three hydrogen chloride gas generators all in the kids` room. Also in the kids` closet...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa. Wait, wait, wait. Did you say a hydrogen generator in the 18-month-old and 4-year-old`s bedroom?
SNADOWSKY: Yes, three of them, Nancy. And there was also stuff in the closet. They found a cardboard box and agents said it contained other more used components of a meth lab and two disposed one-pot method labs. And this is in the kids` bedroom.
GRACE: If you don`t believe me about methamphetamine ruining your life, your body, your mind, your heart, your soul, take a look at these before and after shots of meth users.
Clark Goldband, I want to go back to the story. Here we are in a fairly upscale neighborhood where Grandma lives. She`s got the two children. Where`s Mommy? I don`t know that yet. Where`s Daddy? Never heard. But I know she`s raising the grandchildren, 18 months old, 4 years old, in a meth lab. Look, we`re not talking about Colombia or one of the leaders of the drug world. We`re talking about right here in America, a major meth lab run by a grandmother and her two toddler grandchildren?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Here`s our understanding of how this went down, Nancy. It started as a routine traffic stop about 7:30 at night with two associates of the grandmother. And then what happened was cops pulled them over, our understanding is improper lane usage. They saw narcotics inside the vehicle. They questioned them. And then they said, Where did you come from? They said, We came from this house. Cops stormed the house and found the lab.
GRACE: To special guest Sheriff Daniel Edwards. He is joining us from Tangipahoa parish. Sheriff, thank you for being with us. Before you happened to have one of your guys pull over a driver, did anybody have any idea this house was fronting a meth lab?
SHERIFF DANIEL EDWARDS, TANGIPAHOA PARISH (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. First, thanks for having me.
GRACE: Yes, sir.
EDWARDS: Our narcotics agents did have information that this house had been utilized to cook crystal meth. And so we also were informed by some of our informants that if this Bennett lady was at that house, that the chances that crystal meth was being produced was very high. So we were observing the house, and when Bennett left the house -- we knew her, as well as her car because we had dealt with her in the past -- we did get a traffic stop for improper lane usage, and then things went from there.
GRACE: Sheriff, I should have known you were already on the case. When police or sheriffs came into the home, what were the children doing?
EDWARDS: Well, my agents tell me that when they knocked on the door - - what they did, because they did not have a search warrant at the time, they thought time was of the essence, they knocked on the door. Ms. Arledge gave consent to search. So when we went into the house, the children were just playing. You know, the house was fairly well kept, and they said the children seemed to be playing and in somewhat of a good mood. But obviously...
GRACE: Where were they playing, Sheriff, right next to the hydrogen generators in their bedroom?
EDWARDS: That is correct, in the bedroom and in the hallways where they were playing.
GRACE: God help me! To Brad Lamm, board-registered interventionist at www.Bradlamm.com. Brad, just give me the rudimentary explanation. How do you cook up meth?
BRAD LAMM, INTERVENTIONIST: Well, it`s pretty easy. You know, the recipes on the Internet will walk you through it. And it`s a modern-day way of making of moonshine, but it`s a lot more dangerous and it puts the kids at much greater risk. We see children that are taken from homes where meth is being made with respiratory problems. Folks need help and they need it now, especially in this case, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Grandma allegedly running a meth lab from her house while her grandkids are home? It started as a routine traffic stop for improper lane use but quickly turned into a shocking situation, the driver and passenger allegedly admitting to police that they just came from a home used to manufacture meth. Police say a grandmother lets them in to search the home. Not only do police find meth, but an 18-month-old girl and a 4-year-old boy both living with Grandma. The three women facing a litany of charges while the kids are now in protective custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Grandma allegedly running a meth lab from her house while her grandkids are home? Two ladies were driving along the highway in Louisiana when they were pulled over by cops for improper lane use. Police say the women admitted they just came from a house that`s used to manufacture meth, the women taken into custody on narcotics charges, but cops immediately rush to the home. A grandma opens the door and says police can search. What they find are used meth labs and meth kits all over. Even more shocking, two little children, police say an 18-month-old girl and a 4-year-old boy, were inside the home, meth equipment being stored just feet away from where they slept. Tonight, Grandma in custody and the kids with child services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to special guest Sheriff Daniel Edwards. He is joining us from Tangipahoa parish. Sheriff, again, thank you for being with us. Sheriff, what type of equipment did Grandmother have in her home with her two children, her two grandchildren, to make meth? What did she have in there?
EDWARDS: Well, Nancy, the truth is you can manufacture meth by just going to a local convenience store or hardware store getting all the equipment that you need. But basically, the one-pot method, all you need is something -- a plastic Coke bottle would work, a large Gatorade bottle would work, anything like that. And of course, the key there, to prevent causing injuries, you have to closely observe it because these contents get under pressure. As it produces gas, you have to basically take the lid and let the gas escape and then close it back up.
GRACE: Sheriff -- Sheriff, by the end of the 10 years that I was prosecuting felonies, every time we had an arson or an explosion, first thing we did was say, Oh, are they cooking up meth on the stove?
Back to you, Leslie Snadowsky. You mentioned they had hydrogen generators in the children`s bedroom? Yes, no.
SNADOWSKY: Yes, they did. And in the master bedroom, where the grandmother slept, there was more paraphernalia found, including meth oil and methamphetamines. I mean, I don`t think you could walk a foot in this house without running into something that had to do with meth.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. You know, we see types of abuse on children. I sometimes think I`ve seen it all, children that have been beaten into a coma, they`ve had cigarette burns, they`re not fed, they`re not taken care of. But raising your children in a meth lab?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you might as well let your children go out and play in a minefield or hand them live grenades. Is this based in ignorance? Is it psychotic? Is this people who just don`t care about their kids?
GRACE: Mike Brooks, weigh in.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: ... one-pot method that we`re talking about is probably one of the easiest ways to make meth, but it`s one of the most dangerous because of explosion and fire. And to expose these kids to this? These three women -- I hope they bury them under the jail!
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of the Orlando jurisdiction, Bill Scheaffer, defense attorney and legal analyst WFTV, Meg Strickler out of New York, and John Burris, famed defense attorney out of San Francisco. What about it, Scheaffer?
BILL SCHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hopefully, there`s an insanity defense because there`s not much of a defense apart from that.
GRACE: OK, Bill? Bill? Bill? Let me see Scheaffer`s face. Bill, the insanity defense is getting very tired.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Is the best you`ve got to throw at me that she`s insane?
SCHEAFFER: You said for me to give...
GRACE: I did.
SCHEAFFER: ... the best and only defense, and that would be the best and only defense. The problem is, is that those kids were in such danger, and it was from -- that is very volatile ingredients in making meth, and they could have blown those poor children to smithereens. I don`t know that Granny`s got a defense. She just sounds to me like a modern-day Ma Barker.
GRACE: You know, Meg Strickler out of New York, when I looked at her charges, they`re literally single-spaced down over an entire page of charges against her. What`s she looking at?
MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s going to prison for a long time. Any time you involve children in this, no juror -- she`s not going to be able to try this case, period so she`s going to have to plead out. But with a laundry list of counts, before any prosecutor even got the case, she`s going to have prison years -- probably -- a negotiated plea, she`s going to get life, probably. But if you wanted to go to trial on this...
GRACE: Right.
STRICKLER: ... it would be 130 years or something like that, probably, she`s facing.
GRACE: Let`s hear from the famous John Burris. She`s your client. What do you do, John?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think I would approach the prosecution...
GRACE: OK.
BURRIS: ... and see what I could do about getting some information. Maybe we could talk about this...
GRACE: Information? Where`s she getting meth? Obviously, cooking it up.
BURRIS: No, no, no, no. She may be part of a much larger group, and maybe she`s in a position to turn on some other people and cut a better deal for herself if she starts talking. That`s what I see (INAUDIBLE) She`s got to plea, so now the question is, can she get a good deal for herself by incorporating other people?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the car was found from Johnson`s towing, did you smell a smell that was really alarming to you?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Again, that`s part of the record that the Sheriff`s Department has. I have to say yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And did you tell them -- and I`m just reading from your statement, "I don`t like that smell in the car. I`m going to be straight with you guys. I`m being straight and honest. I`m not going to hold back. There`s a reality here in this thing, and that`s -- that`s life." Did you say that?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, because there was a decomposition smell. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you smelled that in the car?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were -- you were -- I know it`s been a long time ago, but you were in law enforcement. Is that where you...
GEORGE ANTHONY: There`s certain smells, sir, you never forget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter standing by there at the jailhouse. Mark, George and Cindy Anthony managed to convince a judge to block release of what could be a 35-page autopsy report on little Caylee. How did they do it?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, through their attorney, Brad Conway, who talked to Judge Stan Strickland. This 35-page report -- he says that the report being released today would be just too distressing to the Anthonys. Now, 35 pages -- what don`t they want us to see? What is contained in that report, Nancy? Whatever the case is, the judge obviously is going to make some sort of a decision one way or the other.
But by the same token, whatever the judge decides, it will come out in trial of Casey Anthony, which is slated to begin October 12th, but we probably -- that will probably not see the light of day. Also, we`re finding out that there was a lot of contentiousness between Cindy and Casey Anthony over little Caylee (INAUDIBLE) including who had the best gifts for little Caylee during her 2nd birthday party, which was held there at the house.
And of course, a friend by the name of Michelle Matthews -- Murphy said that she had overheard George during a vigil for little Caylee that, What would have happened if we would have adopted little Caylee?
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, for, as far as our sources tell us, nearly the entire two years of her life, George and Cindy Anthony claimed, threatened to take custody, to wrest custody away from tot mom. Why didn`t they?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, we don`t know exactly why they never did it. This friend, Michelle Murphy, who was a good friend of Lee Anthony`s, said this had been going on for two years, since Caylee was born. And we also hear in that 911 call Cindy Anthony is saying in the background to Casey something to the effect of, We`re going to go get a court order. I`ve already give you a month. I`m not going to give you another day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking developments in the case of 2-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony, whose remains were found just yards from her own home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the nearly 900 pages of discovery released this morning, there are hundreds of pages of deposition transcripts. The documents contain a transcript with an interview with Casey`s friend, Joy Ray.
Ray became involved in the case just days after Caylee disappeared. She told investigators she searched along Suburban Drive for the body because she had, quote, "a gut feeling." She looked around the area for clues at least 10 times. That`s the same spot Caylee`s body was found several months later.
ROY KRONK, METER READER, FOUND CAYLEE ANTHONY`S REMAINS: This is Orange County Utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
On Thursday the 11th -- December 11th, during the course of my duty as a county employee, I discovered and reported to my management and appropriate authorities the remains of a human body located in the wooded area close to the Suburban Drive and East Orange County.
I noticed a black plastic bag laying there. And I saw, like, a dome in it.
CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Was it open?
KRONK: No, it was closed. Human skull dropped out with hair around it and duct tape across the mouth. And I went, oh, god, and immediately came up and called my supervisor.
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: There was an orchestration to place Miss Anthony in front of the TV for 30 to 45 minutes while Channel 6 News was unfolding the story that the body of a child had been found.
Your honor, this is cruel, this is inhumane, this is illegal, this is unconstitutional. This defies any common sense of what law enforcement should or should not do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO Radio. Drew Petrimoulx, we have heard from the get-go that George and Cindy Anthony wanted custody of little Caylee. Why didn`t they seek it?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: We don`t exactly know, like one of the other people said before, but the thing was they were really considering it. And George said apparently at this memorial service that, you know, wondering what would have happened if they did take custody and that maybe Caylee would still be alive.
Also, remember, there was at one point one of Casey`s friends was considering adopting Caylee. But that plan was nixed by Casey`s parents. So it`s obvious that they do feel some guilt on the fact that they kind of prevented Caylee being taken away from Casey.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. You know, in all the cases, all the murder cases I`ve ever tried, I`ve never had the victim`s family try to block release of an autopsy report, have you?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, Nancy, I haven`t. But, you know, in this case -- what would it serve, though, you know, to release the autopsy report at this time? In my opinion, you know, maybe it could be tough on them. And apparently they were able to convince the judge of that.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Marc, weigh in. Weigh in on the grandparents convincing a judge to block the release of what could be a 35-page autopsy report? Typically there may be two to five pages.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I don`t believe that there`s anything that will be too upsetting to the Anthonys. They`ve already convinced themselves that the odor of decomposition in the trunk of the car was nothing more than a pizza.
I think they`re in a position to convince themselves of anything. They`re in such a heavy state of denial. But I also believe that every move they make, every breath they take, is designed to do one of two things. Deflect attention away from their daughter and/or find somebody else to throw under the bus as the person responsible for having committed the crime against little Caylee.
GRACE: From L.A., Dr. David Posey, medical examiner, forensic pathologist with the Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group.
Doctor, thank you for being with us. One thing that`s confusing regarding them blocking the release of autopsy photo is, apparently the remains were skeletonized. And when only skeletal remains are left, what`s the goal in the autopsy process? I mean, what could they be trying to hide?
DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: That`s a really good question. You know, all autopsies are approached the same way. You know you want to look at the external examination. If you have an external body to examine, then you go to the internal.
And if the body is completely skeletonized, you report what`s there. You go from every bone in the body from the heads, to the shoulders, to the back, and so forth and report any damage there would be to the bones. If there`s any soft tissue left, you report the same.
So I`m not sure what they`re trying to hide unless there are injuries to the bones that are in the autopsy report that has not been, you know, made public at this point in time, which then could point to, you know, mechanism of death or injuries that occurred to her -- you know, prior to death.
That one thing you have to think about in children, especially young children of her age, is old fractures. Had she been injured earlier? You know a fracture that`s healing or a healed fracture, or fractures in various stages of healing, which would then give you an idea of continued abuse over a long period of time.
GRACE: We also learned that tot mom Casey Anthony may be scheming behind bars to mount an insanity defense. We have heard of irrational behavior, mood swings, nightmares, allegedly, and blood-curdling screams coming from her private jail cell.
Let`s go to the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer out of Orlando. Meg Strickler, New York. John Burris, San Francisco.
What about it, Bill?
BILL SHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re talking about a woman who killed her daughter and was willing to frame an innocent woman for that murder. Do you not think she`s capable of acting insane in order to try to save her own life? This is nothing more than an after-the-fact attempt to try to avoid the death penalty.
GRACE: Meg?
MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I`ve got to agree with that. If she`s trying to be insane, she should have proved it prior to this incident happening. I mean I don`t really understand. Also she`s in prison. Maybe she`s just going nuts now because she`s realizing what`s the impact of her actions that are going to happen to her now. She is going to get the.
GRACE: John Burris, defense attorney out of San Francisco. I know that you`re going to claim it`s all authentic, genuine, and legitimate.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that.
GRACE: And from the heart.
BURRIS: Well, those are different kind of factors. I do think, though, that it can be an appropriate thing for a defense insanity defense. These are factors to consider. You want to know how she acted before. Maybe her behavior was totally erratic before and that there was some diminished capacity here.
So I don`t dismiss it at all and I don`t know that she`s that clever at all. From the defense point of view I would give it due consideration and I`ll get a psychologist in to tell me what he thinks about it. I wouldn`t be dismissive but of course she has to come with some kind of defense. And, you know, to the extent the defense is there, I think it`s appropriate.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who has been in the Anthony home. What about it, Leonard?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL SUIT: All three of your people are correct, especially Burris. She`s not that intelligent to put that together. She just bouncing from wall to wall trying to figure out what to do with the rest of her life which between now and the next 10 minutes and then in 10 minutes she changes her attitude and goes on to the next thing.
GRACE: And to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, it`s going to take more than some nightmares and some screaming in your jail cell, calling out Caylee`s name, to show an insanity defense.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: For sure. There has to be some indication that the time of the commission of the crime she did not know the difference between right and wrong. We don`t see any of that.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, happy 92nd birthday to Louisiana friend, Mildred. A teacher for over 30 years.
Happy birthday, Mildred.
Happy 46th to New York friend of the show, Donald. Isn`t he handsome? After a career in biotech, he`s now devoting himself to special education of children, specifically autistic children. He`s got only one semester left in school.
Good luck, Donald.
And happy birthday to my sister-in-law, Jan. There we are together in Times Square with my brother, Mack. She put herself through school, got her master`s degree while raising two little boys, Dan and Sam, and spent a lifetime in education, touching the lives of more people than she will ever know.
Happy birthday, dear Jan.
And your request, photos of the twins. Here`s John David with his very first popsicle. And here we are at New York`s Central Park Zoo. Looking at the ducks. This is about 6:00 a.m. and we`re already out in the park one morning.
There they are in their PJs. Yes, we`re in the park again eating bagels. Back at the zoo. There we are with the goat. Oh, yes, and one alpaca. There`s Lucy with her miniature stroller and her walking shoes. Oh, John David feeding himself with a spoon for the first time. Oh, there we are with a bridge behind us here in New York at a local park.
John David feeds himself a banana for the first time, Lucy`s on a hunger strike. There they are looking at Mr. Turtle. Oh, there`s another yogurt shot. Here they are dining. That was in front of the pig, the pork belly pig.
Lucy girl eating with a spoon for the first time. And there she is seeing Mr. Duck. Quack, quack. Oh, and playing at Moon Soup. They sit on the drum.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They called me a stupid liar. And they said that I was trying to protect someone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A U.S. student accused in a bizarre sex killing in Italy has been testifying today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she came into court she was smiling wearing a simple white blouse, white trousers and her hair in a ponytail. Now Amanda Knox has become something of a celebrity here in Italy. So when she came into the court today, it was packed with journalists and cameras all vying for position. But she appeared calm and relaxed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s been in jail for 18 months for something she didn`t do. So, you know, allowing her to take the witness stand and tell her side of the story will hopefully have the courts, you know, maybe experience something that she experience and, you know, show that she had nothing to do with this crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni on the story. Rupa, what happened?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Today, Nancy, a bombshell day in court as we heard for the first time from Amanda Knox, herself. And she said several things today in court. She admitted, first of all, that she did use marijuana regularly and she was smoking pot the night of the murder.
GRACE: I want to go to Atika Shubert, CNN correspondent joining us from London. Atika, go back to the night the roommate was killed. What happened and what is her defense?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Amanda Knox says that she was never there at the scene of the crime at the time of the murder. She says that she was with her former boyfriend, Rafealle Sollecito, that they saw a movie, checked some e-mails and that she spent the night there.
And it wasn`t until the next morning that she returned to the villa. She did notice, she said, some unusual things. Dry blood in the sink, for example, that the villa door was open and Meredith Kercher`s door was locked, but she didn`t suspect anything.
She went back to Sollecito`s apartment, told him about it, and that`s when they both returned to the villa to check to see if anything was stolen. And that`s when they called police.
That`s the story that Amanda Knox is telling. We`ll have to see if she holds that up when prosecutors question her tomorrow, Nancy.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, wasn`t the defendant`s boyfriend DNA found on the victim`s bra? And wasn`t there such a substantial amount of DNA that it virtually is impossible for it to have been cross contamination?
MIKKILINENI: That`s right, Nancy. That`s what prosecutors contain. They say that they found DNA on Meredith Kercher`s bra clasp. This is a metal bra clasp that was later found at this crime scene. Police investigators went back to the crime scene to look for that bra clasp that was removed from Meredith`s bra.
GRACE: With me right now is a special guest. This is Amanda Knox`s aunt.
Miss Huff, thank you for being with us. Miss Huff, what is your response to the allegations of the Italian police and the evidence they are producing in court?
(ON THE PHONE)
JANET HUFF, AMANDA KNOX`S AUNT: Well, the evidence so far has always been kind of flimsy. There really isn`t anything proving Amanda has done anything. She`s had no motive. There`s nothing inside Meredith`s room that showed she was ever inside there. There`s tons of DNA evidence and fingerprint evidence on Rudy. But nothing showing Amanda was even in the room.
Yes, there might have been a little bit of blood in the sink. But that was -- it might have been mixed because they shared an apartment. Amanda just had her ear pierced and was picking at it that morning. So yes, she had a little bit of blood in the sink from herself that might have gotten mix in there with some of Meredith`s DNA.
There`s just so much stuff that she`s been contrived and twisted into making her look guilty, but there`s no motive and no real damning evidence against her.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, what statements did she make to police? Now she`s saying that they beat her and she was confused.
MIKKILINENI: Well, she says that she was actually in the apartment, the one that she shares with Meredith Kercher that night, she believes. She says this is a hazy, sort of dreamlike quality as she admits to police during the interrogation.
Of course she now says that she was forced to make those statements by police. The statement, itself, says that she was in the night -- in the apartment that night and heard screams. She doesn`t identify whose screams they are. She`s not exactly sure. She says she was very confused. It`s all in a dreamlike kind of quality.
She writes a five-page testimony, Nancy, the next day after the police interrogation, reiterating these very same statements. Now the inconsistency is that later on she retracts the statement and says she was not there, she was with her boyfriend Rafealle Sollecito.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. After she was interrogated by police the next day she writes a five-page handwritten statement? In that statement she says what, Rupa?
MIKKILINENI: In that statement she reiterates the statements she made to police during the interrogation. She says she was in the apartment, she believes. It`s all very hazy in a dreamlike way. She does emphasized it`s all very dreamy. She`s not 100 percent sure. And she believes she heard screams.
GRACE: To Janet Huff, Amanda Knox`s aunt, what about that five-page statement? How is that explained away?
HUFF: I`m so amazed at how wrong these people can get this stuff all the time and they twist it. Amanda had made a statement after being asked by these police interrogators -- imagine yourself, if you will, and I`ve told you this before, Nancy. Imagine if you were in the apartment and say you heard somebody in the room with Meredith and say they were making some noises. Some man and woman in there.
Imagine, what would you do? So I guess if I was there, I heard them in there, maybe they were having sex or something, I might cover my ears. She never once, never once said she was in the apartment when Meredith was murdered. Never once.
The next day, her big five-page statement that said everyone was saying that she made -- said the same exact thing, that`s not true. Her next day, her statement said, actually the things they made me sign yesterday, I don`t think any of that is right. I was so confused. They just kept asking me all these questions for this date and it`s that date, and it`s this person, that person.
Imagine this, is this a fact? I was confused. This is what actually happened. The next day statement that she made was a complete contradiction of her original signed thing that they made her sign. So -- and them saying over and other again, oh, she said the same thing the next day that is just an absolute lie and not a fact.
GRACE: Everyone, U.S. co-ed on trial for murder in an Italian courtroom.
Very quickly, "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN Heroes."
LIDIA SCHAEFER, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: I like my job. I get to talk to different people. I work in Washington, D.C., but I`m from Ethiopia. When I go home to visit, it`s so different. The children, they are really hungry to learn.
They have to walk three hours to go to school. One of the little girls, she was walking, the last child. She got killed by a hyena. I know I have to do something.
My name is Lidia Schaefer. I built a school for my village in Ethiopia. I was working two days for the school, four days for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She made huge sacrifices. She sold her home.
SCHAEFER: All those things are not important. 2006, the school is finished. We have eight buildings, 16 classrooms, library, laboratory. It`s not beautiful, but it`s good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Through translator): Because of Lidia`s great deeds, now I am continuing my education, which is a good chance for me. I am grateful to Lidia.
SCHAEFER: Seeing them learn feel really good. I don`t feel like I give up a lot. I really work with my heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CNN Heroes is sponsored by the..
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Days of searching and prayers for 5-year-old Nevaeh Buchanan of Monroe ends with more tears and heartache.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After spending hours going over every square inch of this steep embankment in small landing where the little girl`s body was found, all trace evidence has been packed up and shipped off to the state police crime lab in Northville.
GRACE: Joining us right now, Nevaeh`s father. What are cops telling you about this body? What are they telling you about who they think may be responsible?
SHANE HINOJOSA, FATHER OF 5-YR-OLD NEVAEH BUCHANAN: They are telling me nothing. They keep saying no comment.
GRACE: After trying to hide from cameras by lying down at the back of a jail transfer vehicle, daddy Chris Coleman in court today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chris Coleman had a preliminary hearing in court. The prosecution presented a raft of evidence that they say will prove Chris Coleman killed his wife and his two sons.
MARY WATSON, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING GIRL HAYLEE DONATHAN: Said, mom, I`ll be -- I just dropped them of and I`ll be there and I`ll talk to you when I get there and hung up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was the last time Mary Watson spoke to her daughter Candice. She and her 4-year-old granddaughter, Haylee Doathan, were supposed to be on a camping trip with this man, Robbi Potter, a tier 3 sex offender.
GRACE: So you took care of her. I`m getting the picture now, Miss Watson. God bless you for loving that little granddaughter the way that you do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Michael Marzano, 28, Greenville, Pennsylvania. Killed in Iraq. Completed act of duty 2003 but joined the reserve and volunteered to go to Iraq. Lifelong mission, to be a marine like his father, who served in Vietnam.
Loved boxing. Won several amateur titles. Competing as a heavyweight and light heavyweight. Leaves behind parents Albert and Margie.
Michael Marzano, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. But tonight, a special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Brett, Liz, everybody, Norm.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
