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Nancy Grace
Search Continues for Ohio Mom, Sex Offender Boyfriend and 4-Year- Old
Aired June 17, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the case of missing 4-year-old Haylee Donathan. A surveillance camera at a gas station 150 miles east of Denver, Colorado, confirms the pickup truck of registered sex offender Robbi Potter, believed to be with the missing little girl and her mother, Candace Watson.
Tonight, the best friend and roommate of mother Candace Watson joins us live, exclusively taking your calls. What did she see in the minutes before Candace and Robbi Potter left? What more does she know about why this mother would allegedly run off with a level 3 registered sex offender. Tonight, please help us find little 4-year-old Haylee Donathan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say brand-new surveillance video in Colorado may provide more clues into the case of missing Ohio toddler Haylee Donathan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. Marshals` office releasing the surveillance video, shot at a gas station in Stratton, Colorado. That`s about 1,500 miles from where Haylee Donathan, her mother, Candace Watson, and the sex offender, Robbi Potter, live. The video shot back on June 2nd, and it shows Candace attempting to purchase gasoline at that gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the footage, we can tell that Candace came out of the passenger side of the truck, which tells us that there is a driver and we believe that`s still Potter. We believe that they`re all together still.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives confirm the truck has Ohio plates ENS-9729 and say Haylee remains in extreme danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re very concerned about the safety of the little girl. Our focus right now is to find Mr. Potter and find Haylee. Even if we find little Haylee, which we hope to find her soon, if we don`t get Mr. Potter, he`s still a danger to other children out there. So we`re going to continue our search and make sure we get him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Also tonight, live to Florida. After months of anticipation, the judge finally rules on whether the public will ever see a particular jailhouse video of Casey Anthony. This is video shot the day Anthony learned a child`s remains were found near her home, a video which allegedly shows Anthony hyperventilating and asking for sedatives. In the last hours, Judge Stan Strickland has ruled that footage will stay locked up, sealed from the public`s view. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony was watching channel 9 the morning she found out that a little girl`s remains had been found in the woods near her house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was taken to the waiting area outside the medical clinic. Her reaction that morning was videotaped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public will not see jailhouse video of Casey Anthony. After a month-long fight, the judge has ruled to seal it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went to Ms. Anthony`s cell and had to put her in restraints (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In it, Casey reportedly hyperventilates and asks for a sedative after being told a child`s remains were found near her home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She walked into the medical clinic and immediately looked at the TV, which was on channel 9, broadcasting the breaking news. And she collapsed into the chair and started to what appeared to be hyperventilating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was before detectives confirmed that it was her daughter, Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Skeletal remains found on December 11th are those of the missing toddler, Caylee Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did break down and cry in there. We could see that she was crying. He asked for tissue. She definitely was holding her head in her hands, crying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez with the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
As the search heats up, the best friend and roommate of mother Candace Watson joins us live, exclusively taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, we have no evidence to show that they`re not together. We believe all three of them are still together. We believe they`re still running. We`re offering a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the arrest of Potter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here they are in Stratton, Colorado -- again, that`s the eastern part of the state -- two weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marshals do believe that it is this -- the trio in this new surveillance video because the truck in this new surveillance video matches the truck that was seen in the video shot at a Wal-Mart store in Marion, Ohio, back on May 31st.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a 1988 Chevy pickup truck. It`s black. It`s a two-toned black over, like, a green or teal. And one of the things that stands out the most about it is it has, like, a lightning storm design on the back window. ENS-9729. That`s an Ohio plate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a guy that`s out on a picnic with the family. He is a sexual predator, a convicted sexual predator. He is on the run from federal and Ohio jurisdictions. I think this man is a danger to absolutely anybody that he comes into contact with at this point, and the sooner we find that little girl, the better off everybody will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let`s go straight out to Matt Bruning, reporter of WTVN radio in Ohio. The national manhunt is still continuing, right, Matt?
MATT BRUNING, NEWSTALK 610 WTVN (via telephone): Absolutely. And it`s focusing, it looks like, mainly on the western part of the country. As this new surveillance video came out from June the 2nd, it showed the truck that these three are driving in Colorado, a gas station in Colorado. We`ve also heard from U.S. Marshals and other police investigation agencies that they believe that Candace Watson has some friends in the Phoenix, Arizona, area. She lived in Arizona for some time, and they may be headed there, although we don`t have any confirmed sightings beyond that June 2nd sighting at that gas station in Colorado.
CASAREZ: Well -- to Clark Goldband, Nancy Grace producer. They have traveled almost halfway across the United States, but now we understand that border patrol agents are on the alert also, correct?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Jean. Not only is this last sighting only 150 miles away from Denver, Colorado, but in fact, the U.S. border patrol, to our understanding, has been placed on high alert not only to the south, down in Mexico, which is right next to Arizona, but also up north, towards Canada.
CASAREZ: Let`s go to Drew Deserto right now, assistant chief deputy U.S. Marshal, northern Ohio violent fugitive task force. Thank you so much, Marshal, for joining us again tonight. Since it is believed that they could be headed to Arizona, since Candace lived there at one point of time, are you concerned about Mexico and them crossing over into that country?
DREW DESERTO, ASST. CHIEF DEP. U.S. MARSHAL: Well, we`ve already looked into that. And we`ve set up our -- basically, I call it a trap. So if they try to cross the country, we`re going to get them. There`s nowhere they can go that we can`t find them. We`re going to stay on this. As you stated, we have Marshals working all over the country, a large focus in Colorado. We`re looking very much into Arizona. And we`re hot on their trail. We`re going to stay on it until we get them.
CASAREZ: Well, it sounds like those at the border, Mexican officials, are working with this country as they do that. It`s great.
I want to go now to a very, very special guest. We`re so pleased to have her with us, pleased because maybe she can give us some insight on exactly what might be happening here, Samantha Covert. She is the best friend, she is the roommate of Candace Watson. Thank you so much for joining us. I`m sure this is hard for you, too. First of all, how long have you been a roommate of Candace`s?
SAMANTHA COVERT, BEST FRIEND & ROOMMATE: We`ve been roommates for about four months now. I`ve known her, though, since 1992.
CASAREZ: Right. You`ve known her a good part of your life, right?
COVERT: Yes.
CASAREZ: OK. Did you grow up together?
COVERT: We did for a while until -- for about -- from `92 until about `97, when I graduated high school.
CASAREZ: Tell us -- I understand that you have met Robbi Potter one time. Can you describe for us what that meeting was like?
COVERT: It wasn`t very comfortable. He didn`t make any eye contact with me. And he had went outside the house and walked around the house for, like, five laps, just kind of staring up and down the house, and things like that. I didn`t have any kind of conversation with him at all. Candace said, This is Samantha, Samantha, this is Robbi. And that was it.
CASAREZ: Where did you first see him, inside the house or outside the house?
COVERT: Inside the house. I had...
CASAREZ: Where?
COVERT: I had woke up -- at our house, at Candace and I -- and our bedrooms are right across from each other. And I had gotten up, and that was the first thing I had seen, was Robbi and Candace and Haylee in her bedroom.
CASAREZ: In her bedroom. And when was this?
COVERT: This was Thursday the 28th.
CASAREZ: And where was Haylee?
COVERT: In her room, in Candace`s room with Robbi and Candace.
CASAREZ: In the bed?
COVERT: Yes.
CASAREZ: Since you`ve lived with her in the last few months, how has she acted to you?
CASAREZ: Up until about the past month, she`s been fine. We decided that we were going to go to school, back to school together. We were going to move in together and just change things about our lives. And then about the past month is when she`s just been real distant from me, not wanting to talk serious about anything, avoiding me a lot.
CASAREZ: Miss Covert, here`s the gap that I have. She ends up in bed, you say, with Robbi Potter. How did she meet him? How did she know him? Did she know him from the past?
COVERT: That was the first time I`d seen of him, heard of him or anything. She never mentioned Robbi to me, never mentioned any kind of new relationship with anybody, nothing.
CASAREZ: So you see them all in bed. Then what happens after that?
COVERT: When I had seen them, Haylee noticed that I was up and said, Aunt Sam -- and she wanted to go downstairs with me, so I took her downstairs with me. And then Candace had got up and come downstairs. And my youngest daughter had asked Haylee who that was. And Haylee looked at me and shrugged her shoulders. And then I had asked Candace and she said, That`s Robbi. And that was the end of the conversation.
CASAREZ: OK. I want to go to Mary Watson, the grandmother of Haylee Donathan. She is the mother of Candace Watson. I`m sure tonight and today is another day that you don`t have your granddaughter with you, your 4- year-old beautiful granddaughter. Do you believe that your daughter was allowing your granddaughter to be in the bed with a tier 3 convicted sexual offender?
MARY WATSON, GRANDMOTHER: No, I don`t believe that. She`s -- I don`t believe that she knew that he was. It`s just too hard for me to believe. All`s I want to do is reach out to her. I want her to know that we love her and I want her to come back home, to call me just to let me know that she`s OK and my granddaughter`s OK.
CASAREZ: So she has not contacted you at all.
WATSON: No, she hasn`t.
CASAREZ: Why do you think she would go to Arizona?
WATSON: She used to live there and she liked Arizona. She was going to school there and she had two jobs there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haylee`s very playful, cheerful, very lovable. She was in ballet. She had lots of friends, playmates, a very good little girl. Nobody could want anybody better than her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in northern Ohio say a 4-year-old girl is in danger, traveling with her mom and mom`s sex offender boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s already a serious case, but it`s exacerbated because they`ve crossed state lines. So that makes it a federal issue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haylee remains in extreme danger. Investigators say brand-new surveillance video in Colorado may provide more clues into the case of missing Ohio toddler Haylee Donathan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. Marshals say they`ve confirmed a sighting of the vehicle that sex offender fugitive Robbi Potter, mom, Candace Watson, and Haylee Donathan are believed to be traveling in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That plate on that truck is E, as in Echo -- ENS- 9729.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a blue 1988 Chevy pickup truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another thing that stands out about it is it has orange lights that run across the top of the windshield visor. So it is pretty distinctive. If you see it, you`re going to remember this truck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sex offenders, when they are in jail, they have notoriously poor relationships with others. They`re picked on. So when they escape or are released, they`re usually angrier and even more ready to offend than ever before. And that`s what puts this little girl at even greater risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Let`s go straight out to the phone lines. Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. My question is, people have had to see this truck. They have seen it. I would recognize this truck. Are they using the interstate just to get gasoline? And are they armed? Is this sex offender armed?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a great question. Let`s go out to Drew Deserto, assistant chief deputy U.S. Marshal. Sir, can I ask you, this felon, Robbi Potter, was convicted in a federal court of aiding and abetting a federal bank robbery. Do you believe this could be a violent situation for others?
DESERTO: We don`t have any information at this time to show that he is armed. However, that doesn`t mean he`s not a danger, especially to this little child. Our primary concern is the welfare of little Haylee. And obviously, we`re trying to get tips to come in. We`ve received over 200 tips already, thanks to you putting this out into the media for us, and we`re asking the public to keep calling in.
We`re also asking Candace, if she`s watching, Please call in. Your family is very concerned. We want to make sure this little girl`s OK, and we need some help in that.
CASAREZ: You know, back to Samantha Covert. I want to ask you a very, very serious question. If there was a situation that violence or any type of impropriety with her child could be a possibility with this tier 3 sexual offender, how would Candace handle that?
COVERT: Honestly, I don`t think we know how anybody would handle a situation like that. When you get in a situation like that, you just -- you react. She`s a very strong-willed woman, person. I think that she would probably do what she could. But I can`t really answer that question.
CASAREZ: OK. Let`s go to another caller, Dee in Illinois. Good evening, Dee. Thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. My heart goes out to this family. As a crime victim myself, I know they go through different phases. And I understand her mom taking the position that she has, and my heart truly goes out to them. But my question is, it was reported on your show last night by a family member that she was not informed of this, of him being a sexual predator until Sunday. However, since then, she`s been out of that vehicle twice, once in Wal-Mart, one in the convenience store. If she was there against her will, why did she not try to get help and seek help for her and her daughter when she was outside the vehicle?
CASAREZ: I think that`s a very good question. Let`s go to our psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere, author of "Love Prescription," renowned psychologist. When someone is in a situation like that, if she found out after the fact that this was a sexual predator, why didn`t she try to escape, psychologically speaking?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jean, we don`t know whether she is part of this whole scenario from her own will or whether there`s some sort of coercion going on. But let`s assume there is no coercion. Why wouldn`t she try to escape, especially after finding out that this person that she`s with is a sex offender? I think it`s part of the clinical picture that in some ways, he`s convinced her that he`s safe, that he is not going to harm her or the child. And she cannot, as far as the cognitive dissidence, decide what to do in this particular case. She`s got to convince herself that, in fact, she is doing the right thing and that`s why she`s putting her daughter in danger.
CASAREZ: Miss Mary Watson, grandmother of Haylee. You said the last time you spoke with your daughter that her voice was quivering. Explain that to me. Describe what was different in that last phone call.
WATSON: It just sounded like she was just scared. And she was short and she`s never really been that short with me. But she was really short. And I`m just asking for her to please call home and let me know they`re OK. And I love her.
CASAREZ: All right. To tonight`s "Case Alert." Vermont authorities confirm the cause of death for the brother of the world-famous actress Mia Farrow who was found dead on Monday night in his art gallery. Sixty-six- year-old Patrick Farrow, a professional sculptor, took his own life with a gunshot, a single gunshot to a head. Our thoughts and our prayers, they are with his family tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s my granddaughter? I want my granddaughter home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Mom took Haylee and is on the run with this guy, Robbi Potter. The guy`s a level 3 sex offender, considered the most dangerous.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Miss Watson, what got into her, to romance a convicted sex offender from behind bars? I mean, she knew he was in prison for a sex offense with a minor!
WATSON: As far as I know, she did not. He has manipulated her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Let`s go straight out to Lisa in Ohio, a caller that`s been standing by. Hi, Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I just wanted to know, is there any information about the tent that she supposedly returned to Wal-Mart. She had to go to a return desk. What did she say? Did they get the tent and check it out? I`ve not heard any more about it.
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question. We know there was surveillance video, so we know that was purchased and returned. To Drew Deserto, federal agent with the U.S. Marshals, is there any insight you can give us on that?
DESERTO: That`s still under investigation at this time. We don`t have any information that we can report on that.
I do want to emphasize we do have a $10,000 reward out here right now. It`s a lot of money. This truck, as we`ve mentioned, as one of your callers stated, it stands out. People have seen this. People are going to recognize this truck. We`re asking you to please call this hotline, 866-4- WANTED. Any tips, we`re accepting them all, we`re following up on all of them. Please call us tonight.
CASAREZ: Are you emphasizing truck stops as all? Because interstates have truck stops and that`s how one`s (ph) travel (ph).
DESERTO: Yes, we`re checking out everything, ma`am. We`re checking out highways, truck stops. Campgrounds is another big area that we`re getting a lot of tips on. We`ve known that they`ve already been camping once. We`re checking into every avenue you can imagine. And as I stated, we have a massive manhunt. Our task force is working non-stop, day and night...
CASAREZ: To Samantha...
DESERTO: ... Marshals all over the country...
CASAREZ: Thank you. Samantha Covert, best friend, roommate, what did she take for Haylee the last time you saw her leave that house? What did she take?
COVERT: When she left the house, she took a basket. It was half full of clothes, and the rest were full of blankets and pillows.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. TAMMY UNSER, ORANGE COUNTY CORRECTIONS: She lost her breath, we told her a couple of times to take some deep breaths. She was -- got real shallow breathing. Her hands started to sweat. She started rubbing them profusely.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.
UNSER: Kept saying, my chains are getting tighter and tighter on me, please loosen them. We told her we couldn`t because we knew they weren`t tight when she sat down in the chair.
C. ANTHONY: I think it`s harder. Yes, I agree.
SGT. BILLY RICHARDSON, ORANGE COUNTY CORRECTIONS: Her focus was directly attended to the TV, as soon as she seen that there was some emotional distress, increased emotional distress in that she sat down. She began showing looks of serious -- like she wanted to cry.
C. ANTHONY: I love you, too.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: The house has been very quiet.
UNSER: She said no, no. I won`t hurt myself but she did ask for a sedative, which we did relay to the doctor on duty.
C. ANTHONY: Mom! I`m sorry, I love you guys, I miss you.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: All right, sweetheart. Here`s dad, hold on.
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m -- I`m going to hang up and just walk away right now.
UNSER: And she was still breathing rapidly, talking really fast, but not -- nothing really about the case, just that, you know, this isn`t surreal, I can`t cry, I can`t break down and cry because this isn`t real. And then she started talking about football.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
The state of Florida has some of the broadest public record laws in this country. I travel the country with the legal network "In Session" and I know the laws. And this state is one that public records are public records. Once they are government record, you see them, you find them out, but there are exceptions.
And that was announced today in an opinion by the judge in the Casey Anthony case. Let`s go straight out to Drew Petrimoulx. He is a reporter with WBDO Radio in Orlando. What did the judge rule today on this video that was taken of Casey finding out about the remains of a young child?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: A couple of points that the judge made today. First, he said is that releasing this video could taint the potential jury pool. Basically, he watched this video and decided that what was on it could sway public opinion that Casey was guilty.
Also, he said because this video may not be played in trial, that it would be violating her rights to actually release it. Another point that he made is that if he releases this video, it will be played all across the state, thus rendering an attempt to change venue uneffective (sic) in getting her a fair trial.
CASAREZ: To Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, also in Orlando. The judge in his order, and it is a short order, but he goes into explicit detail of subjectively some wordage of what he feels that video portrays. What are some of the words the judge uses?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The judge says that this video is highly inflammatory, Jean. And he also says that this could cause potential juries to develop a hardened attitude against Casey Anthony`s guilt.
CASAREZ: That is quite some wordage used by the judge.
I want to go out to Ellie Jostad, also NANCY GRACE executive producer. The judge uses in his ruling a three-tier test based on case precedent law in Florida. What were those three tiers of test he used?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Right. The case Judge Strickland is referring to is a case where some jailers were actually accused of misconduct and they tried to limit pretrial publicity. Three prongs he was looking at.
Would the release of this piece of evidence be a threat to the administration of justice? And as Natisha explained, he concluded that this could harden the jurors` attitudes towards Casey Anthony`s guilt or innocence.
Also, he thought it could lead to a change of venue in the case. That preventing the disclosure of this video could prevent a later problem with pre-trial publicity (ph) throughout the state.
The third problem would be that the closure would be effective in preventing the violation of Casey Anthony`s rights. So those are the three things he was looking at.
CASAREZ: Let`s go straight out to the lawyers tonight. We`ve got some good ones. Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi, prosecutor out of New York, Bill Sheaffer, defense attorney out of Orlando and WFTV legal analyst, Renee Rockwell, esteemed defense attorney out of Atlanta. And Alan Ripka, defense attorney out of New York.
First of all, to our prosecutor, Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi, thank you for joining us. Do you think this was a correct ruling today?
ANNA-SIGGA NICOLAZZI, PROSECUTOR: Good evening, Jean. I do. Again, although I think that it would be fine if we leave it alone. As the judge cited, this is now a death penalty case. So since the penalty is ultimately the highest price to be paid, he`s doing everything he can to ensure that he protects the record, that Casey gets a fair trial so that the outcome will stand, whatever that is.
CASAREZ: Exactly. To defense attorney Bill Sheaffer out of Orlando. It is something, though, in the Florida jurisdiction that we see that a motion to seal, which this was, to shield it from the public at this point, was granted. Do you see it very often?
BILL SHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: No. This is the first time that I`ve seen this motion granted. I do not think, though, that we`ve seen the last, because I would imagine that the "Orlando Sentinel," who appeared on behalf of the media will appeal this to the Fifth District Court of Appeals.
But the attorneys are absolutely right. This judge, Judge Strickland, is concerned about, one, making sure that she has a fair trial. And number two, making sure when there`s a conviction in this case, that it stands the test on appeal.
CASAREZ: You know, to Renee Rockwell, defense attorney. When I was out at a hearing several months ago, when they first started to argue about this video, Jose Baez had not seen it, the judge had not seen it. And I remember the judge saying to Jose, on the record, you know, wait until you see it, because it might be something that you want out there.
And when you think about it, a mother who is to the point of despair and hyperventilating, learning about the remains. It sounds like it would work for the defense. So what do you think the judge saw in this that believed that it should be sealed at this point?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Don`t forget, this reaction came before it was confirmed that the remains, at least in her mind, that the remains belonged to her daughter. And I have to agree with the other attorneys that have spoken.
It`s hard to un-ring the bell. Why not be cautious? I think that you`re going to see the state, though, later, Jean, this is only a motion to seal now. You`re going to see the state later trying to introduce this, at which point may be they will have a motion to suppress, to again keep it from the jurors that have already seen it.
CASAREZ: Renee, I think you`re right on the money because now that you hear the language the judge uses, I definitely think the prosecution may want to enter this into evidence.
To Alan Ripka, we`ve had this motion to seal that`s been granted by the judge, but now a motion to suppress, based also on constitutional grounds. I`m sure it`s going to happen. Do you think defense, Jose Baez, will be victorious in that?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he absolutely will be. I think that it violated her rights. I think there was a privacy issue here. I think she was set up. And the prosecution intended on seeing what she was going to do so they could use it against her at trial.
And I think it`s completely unfair. And I think the judge was right on the money. However, the officers that did witness this at the time can be called as witnesses to describe what they saw in her behavior when she saw the television screen.
CASAREZ: And we`ve also heard some answers through depositions. Let`s go to Ellie Jostad. We`ve had a lot of depositions that have occurred already in the civil case. Also, Jose Baez.
What have we learned, not only about the reaction of Casey Anthony, but the fact of the video that was taken in that room. It was a mounted video, right, that took pictures of everybody.
JOSTAD: Right. That`s correct. Lieutenant Tammy Unser and Sergeant Billy Richardson are two of these jailers that were interviewed about what happened that day at the jail, on December 11th. The way Lieutenant -- I`m sorry, Sergeant Richardson described the videotape is that he said that, yes, this is a fixed camera. It records everything.
But when pressed by the defense about it, he said when he was asked to duplicate the videotape, which in itself was unusual, the tape had been blown up or zoomed in to get a better look at Casey Anthony`s reaction.
CASAREZ: Well, I`ve got to go to Bill Schaffer out of Orlando, defense attorney and also legal analyst, WFTV. So when they are duplicating the tape, according to this deposition, they zoom in for a close-up. What are your thoughts on that?
SHEAFFER: No harm, no foul. Look, she doesn`t have a right to privacy. Where was this video shot? It was shot in jail. The prosecutors are going to be successful in getting Judge Strickland to admit this into evidence. Why? Because as been pointed out, we didn`t know whether or not the remains that were found were the remains of that child.
There`s only one person, one person who knew that the remains were, in fact, Caylee, and that was the killer and that was the mother in this case, and her reaction shows a guilty conscious, a guilty state of mind. It`s coming into evidence.
CASAREZ: Consciousness of guilt.
To Nancy in Pennsylvania, very quickly, what`s your question?
NANCY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, I don`t see what`s the difference whether they release the video or not. When you`ve already had the staff at the jail described how she reacted when they discovered the remains that were close to her home anyway.
It`s describing exactly what`s in the video anyway. So what`s the difference whether they release it? It shows how guilty she is anyway, and everybody across the United States has been keeping in touch with this and the jury`s going to know anyway.
CASAREZ: And I think that`s an interesting point and it could be an argument by the media that we all have a subjective opinion. We picture this in our minds of how she`s reacting and how it`s being described to us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As she walked over toward the stairway that ascended to her room, which is directly above me, she had tears in her eyes and she was screaming, I`m pissed.
UNSER: She walked into the medical clinic and immediately looked at the TV which was on Channel 9 broadcasting the breaking news and she collapsed into the chair and started to what appeared to be hyperventilating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come everybody`s saying you`re lying?
C. ANTHONY: Because nobody`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) anything that I`m saying. My entire life has been taken from me. Everything has been taken from me. The (EXPLETIVE DELETED) detectives told them (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They got all their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
UNSER: She did break down and cry in there. We could see that she was crying. He asked for tissues. She definitely was holding her head in her hands, crying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looked directly into my room and said, help me. At that point, I mean, I really didn`t know what to do. There was nothing that I could do to help her.
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CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Straight out to Marc Klaas. Marc, I want to get your reaction to all of this, but I want everyone to hear once again one of the sentences in the judge`s order today. He says that by viewing that video of Casey Anthony, hearing about the finding of the remains, it is, quote, "not unreasonable that people in a potential jury pool might view the video and develop a hardened attitude in reference to the defendant`s guilt."
Your thoughts?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, a couple of things. First of all, I think you could make the reasonable argument that anybody watching TV that understands the human remains of a small child have been found within a quarter of a mile of their home would become visibly upset whether they were the killer or not. I mean there`s a reasonable expectation that those would be Caylee`s remains.
Secondly, however, I believe that if the goal of selecting a jury is to find individuals who know nothing of the case, I don`t think that they`re going to be able to find 12 individuals plus alternates anywhere in the country.
But if they`re looking to find somebody who is willing to put aside their own personal opinion, and base their verdict upon the evidence as it`s presented in the courtroom, I don`t think they`re even going to need to change the venue.
I think you`ll be able to find 12 people within the Orlando area that are willing to do that and are able to do that.
CASAREZ: I agree with you. I agree with you. And remember, for everybody, the judge`s ruling here was based on right to a fair trial. Due process right.
I want to go out to Dr. Kari Peterson, internal medicine, specialist, Lenox Hill Hospital. It`s being reported that Casey started to hyperventilate. And we don`t know subjectively what the commentator was saying on the television.
They could have been confirming or believing it was the remains of Caylee. We don`t know. But what does the body actually do when it starts to hyperventilate?
DR. KERI PETERSON, INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: I think what the guards probably saw that her shoulders were shrugging up and down quickly, your face can become pale. Really not much else. You may here the breath sounds going in and out very rapidly.
CASAREZ: But is this due to the lungs? Is this due to the blood pressure? Is this due to the stress level?
PETERSON: When you hyperventilate, typically, there are -- the most common cause is emotional stress and the second most common cause is actually an underlying medical condition that wants you to blow off oxygen. Some sort of lung condition. She was a healthy girl, so clearly this was from emotional distress.
CASAREZ: All right. To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter. He will be disposed in the civil suit, possibly a witness in the criminal trial.
Leonard, your thoughts on the judge`s order today.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL SUIT: Well, Marc Klaas, I think, just covered the whole thing, the whole gat mutt real well. Long ago I said the best jury would probably be one out of Orlando, but the biggest significance of the reaction is going to be the comparison between that particular bit of film and the film that was taken at the -- when she viewed the Little League pond search.
There`s going to be a great big difference in her reaction. Her knowing the body wasn`t in the Little League pond, and her knowing the body was off -- on.
CASAREZ: All right. I couldn`t hear you. When she viewed what? What was the other viewing?
PADILLA: When she viewed the Little League pond search where nobody was turned up and there was a lot of reaction to that and she saw that on television and she had no reaction to it. She just kind of looked up, walked off. Didn`t have a reaction to it at all.
CASAREZ: Right, I understand what you`re saying.
PADILLA: I think the prosecutor is going to show the difference in her reactions.
CASAREZ: All right. You may very well be right.
To Sherry in Illinois. Hi, Sherry. Good evening.
SHERRY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hello. Thank you for having me.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome. What`s your question?
SHERRY: Yes, I just have a question. Didn`t Casey Anthony know that she was being filmed in jail when she did throw her fits? And she would have known that it could be shown in her trial.
CASAREZ: Well, Sherry, a good question. You`ve heard before, there is no right to privacy, virtually, in a jail unless you are with a medical professional and that is privileged.
But to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, do we know at all -- she didn`t know she was being videotaped, right?
LANCE: I don`t think at that moment she knew that she was being videotaped. We saw previously -- we see it right now where she`s had those video visitations with her family. She did come to find out that she was being videotaped during those moments. But when she was taken out of her jail cell, brought to the medical ward, I don`t think she understood that she was being videotaped.
CASAREZ: And I think most would agree that she does not have a right to know that she`s being videotaped.
To Michelle in Ohio, good evening, Michelle.
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Jean, thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
MICHELLE: My question is, do you think it`s likely that the reason it would be inflammatory is because she had such a strong reaction, because remember there was no confirmation that this was Caylee. I think Renee Rockwell had already mentioned that. But, you know, that know one had known that this was her baby, and she had such a strong reaction.
CASAREZ: You`re talking about demeanor, Michelle, and I think it`s an important question. Let`s go to the psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere.
When you see someone being emotional and reacting, can it be subjective? Can you look at it in a certain frame as it appears as though the judge did to indicate possibly a guilty state of mind rather than a sorrow state of mind?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": It is possible to do that. And I think what we need to look at here, Jean, is that the reaction that she had, not knowing whether it was her daughter or not was such a strong reaction.
But you are also right, Jean, when you say that anyone would have this sort of reaction, especially if they know their daughter is missing. They`re going to stand trial for that. So who else could it have been but her daughter?
So she would have had that reaction. But that reaction was so strong, was so subjective, I think it leads one to believe that she knew that was her daughter and she was caught.
CASAREZ: To Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi, prosecutor out of New York, do you think this will come into the trial?
NICOLAZZI: I do. I don`t see how it stays out. I mean this is going to be such damaging evidence, it`s such a strong evidence. I mean there`s a lot to the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words. So they can have every guard come in which the defense can talk about, they`re biased, that they`re correction officers.
But it`s another thing for the juries to see it for themselves and I think that is why the prosecution will push hard and that any defense motion to keep it out will be unsuccessful.
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CASAREZ: To Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst for Pine Lake Police Department. Sheryl, I want you to listen to this from Brad Conway. He`s the attorney representing George and Cindy Anthony, not representing Casey Anthony. I want you to listen to what he has said on national television about Casey Anthony.
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CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS: The prosecution seems to be bent on Casey as the prime suspect, the only suspect, really. Is there reason to believe that it could be anyone else?
BRAD CONWAY, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: I think there`s reason to believe that other people were involved. The question is, what was their involvement? How deep was it? Was it minimal or was it actually bordering on conspiracy?
CUOMO: But do you know of any theory that rules out Casey as being under the umbrella of suspicion here?
CONWAY: I do not, no. I don`t.
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CASAREZ: And that was George and Cindy Anthony`s attorney speaking candidly on ABC`s "Good Morning America" about the case against Casey Anthony.
Sheryl, your reaction.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: He`s creating reasonable doubt for her parents. She is the only person to look at. I mean I`ve even said on this show that could somebody have helped her, certainly.
But, again, the cadaver dog hit on her trunk. She doesn`t report the child for 31 days. She doesn`t report the car missing for 14 days. The cadaver dog hit on the playhouse. She does react to where the child is found, in very close proximity to the house.
They`ve got forensic evidence that matches the scene that comes from the house, the duct tape, the trash bags. He`s doing his job for her mom and dad.
CASAREZ: OK. So you don`t believe that it is something that may be Jose Baez should be saying and possibly not Brad Conway at this point?
Tonight, let us stop to remember 19-year-old Private First Class Robert Worthington, Jackson, Georgia, killed in Iraq. He received his GED through the National Guard Challenge Program. He completed airborne school. He hoped to start college after returning from overseas.
He loved his niece, Traylen. He leaves behind his parents, Rhonda and Robert, one sister.
Robert Adrian Worthington, American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests. Our biggest thank you is for you for being -- inviting us into your homes. Thank you so much. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern Time.
Good night, everybody.
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