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CNN Saturday Morning News

Iranian Protests in Question Now

Aired June 20, 2009 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: We will be hearing from him here, the report that he filed yesterday. But in the meantime, what we have seen to be the theme this morning is confusion.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

HOLMES: The word -- we started, we're thinking there are going to be two rallies today.

NGUYEN: Right.

HOLMES: And then it just kind of unraveled from there.

NGUYEN: Well, we're hearing word from state-run media which, keep in mind, backed by Ahmadinejad, has said that, you know, one of those two rallies has been canceled. Granted, we have not heard from the people organizing the rallies nor have we heard from protesters who are, in fact, scheduled to appear in less than 30 minutes at those rallies. But the problem with this is that we have been shut out as the media, cannot be in the streets to cover this.

And, you know, we talked about Reza Sayah being limited to one a day, and now, he can only report on a case-by-case basis as long as he applies and gets permission to do so -- which I find very interesting, on day when this happens, on a day when those rallies are supposed to take place. It wasn't yesterday when he had to do that, but it is today when he has to do that. So, we're being very transparent in our coverage this morning.

HOLMES: And, again, two rallies we're talking about. So, this is where we are, just to update you. And, again, we're trying to fish this all out and parse this all out. But where we are is that we're told two protests, two are supposed to happen in about 30 minutes there in Tehran. It would be 4 o'clock Tehran time.

The confusion is now, reports that one of those has been canceled. Also confusion, reports coming that now police have certainly taken to the streets and surrounded one of the squares where some of this is supposed to be happening today.

Ayatollah, the supreme leader, came out yesterday, in a sermon on Friday, telling people ...

NGUYEN: A warning.

HOLMES: ... to stop.

NGUYEN: Yes.

HOLMES: Officially, it was a warning, drawing a line in the sand. Do not do this.

So, we're waiting to see if that defiance will show up in the street. It's one thing to have this movement and to go against the president, President Ahmadinejad. When the supreme leader speaks, that's something else. We heard words that certain groups of clerics have now decided they will not participate today. So, maybe, just slowly, what's starting to happen is people will dial it back a bit after the supreme leader has come out.

NGUYEN: Yes. And those clerics were with the reformist group, the group that will be in the streets if they indeed take to the streets today and protest. So, that is a bit of a pivotal piece of information today about those cleric who have decided, yes, indeed, we are going to follow the supreme leader's warning and not attend the protest.

Now, it doesn't mean the protests have been canceled or called off. It doesn't mean people will not take to the streets. We still have not even heard from Mousavi this morning, and that's going to be very important, to see whether this indeed goes off as planned.

But we want to get right now to our chief international correspondent, that being Christiane Amanpour. She was in Iran. She followed not only the pre-election, but the ballots as they were being counted and questioned, and then the protests following this. And she joins us now live from London.

Christiane, as you're watching all of this, I mean, there is quite a bit of confusion as to what exactly is going to happen within the next 20 minutes.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a pivotal day today because after Iran's supreme leader finally took to the stage and addressed Iranians and basically issued an ultimatum and a warning, all eyes are there to see whether or not the protesters will come out or whether they will take heed of that warning.

So far, what we can confirm is that one of the clerical establishments, the association of so-called Combatant Clergy, which is a reformist group, has said that it will cancel the protest that it was planning to hold today. So, that is canceled and that is also fairly associated with the previous reformist president, Mohammad Khatami, who is also a big backer of Mir Hossein Mousavi, and it appears that Mohammad Khatami has canceled his planned as well.

On the other hand, CNN, on the ground in Tehran, has confirmed some people who we have been talking to say that they might turn out anyway -- small groups. We don't know whether state-run media is accurate when is says that all protests have been canceled. That's what state- run media has said today, that all protests have been canceled. So, we're waiting to see whether it was meant to happen at about this hour, whether or not that's the case. In addition, CNN has confirmed that one of the squares in Tehran, which was meant to be the location for the pro-Mousavi rally, is empty, except for some 200 or so heavily armed riot police and the like, security officers. We also have confirmed what state-run media is saying, that the Guardian Council will count randomly some 10 percent of the ballot boxes, will recount that.

That is about what we know at this moment. Again, it's very important what happens today, and we'll wait to see whether or not the protesters challenge the supreme leader or not. One of the key things that the supreme leader said yesterday was constantly, over and over again in every manner of way, saying that this high election turnout legitimized the Islamic republic and he kept saying that the candidates, despite their differences, were not outside the system. They were all within the system. So, that is the key message that the top religious authorities are trying to put out -- along with a very clear warning that the protesters better not come out, or else.

HOLMES: So, Christiane, you just said there that even the candidates that lost, the supreme leader saying they are still within the system. So, how do they fight the system now if that swell of support, which is -- those pictures we see of people out in the street, that can keep this momentum going -- what move does Mousavi have now if the supreme leader is essentially trying to shut this down and also protesters aren't taking to the streets? How is Mousavi going to work within the system?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's a very good question, you know? It's a very good question.

I can tell you from the past, when President Mohammad Khatami was elected in 1997, he was swept to power on a wave of young people and women who wanted -- and even villagers and people out in the provinces, we covered that closely -- and just about the whole majority of Iran wanted reform, freedom inside, and a new relationship with the world, even back then.

And what transpired was that the hard-line conservative clerical establishment, backed by the Revolutionary Guard, backed by the Basijs militia -- who we've seen come out even this week -- the non-uniformed henchmen of the revolutionary system, it transpired that actually, Mohammad Khatami was not able to push through his reformist agenda, even though he was president and had a huge support amongst the people, more than 20 million or so votes in two elections.

And what happened was that he stood back, because he was a cleric. He was part of the system. So when there were two eruptions of student protests in 1999 and 2003, after a very short period, they were beaten back and those protests were stopped.

Now, what we're seeing this time around is much bigger protests, much more daring out in the streets and going on for much longer. But the real question is: will the reformist leaders, this time around, do what protest has to do in order to stay on the streets, and that is take a risk or will they -- or will they sort of take heed that they are from within the system and they're not ready to do this yet? NGUYEN: Christiane, let's talk about that risk for just a second. You mentioned the Basij militia. And we heard yesterday from the supreme leader that if you take to the streets, there will be a crackdown. What will protesters face, indeed, if they go out today and decide, you know what -- we're going to go against the supreme leader and we're going to continue this protest?

AMANPOUR: Well, this is the all-important question. So far, we saw in Iran -- certainly for the five days between Friday and, between last Monday and yesterday, Friday -- that the system decided to let the people onto the streets without beating them up, without cracking down. On Monday, they allowed that and all of the following days, although press coverage was strongly restricted, nonetheless, word got out. Also, the individuals were able to send out the pictures, and those reporters who were still there, in some form or fashion, were able to report, including CNN.

What will happen is -- that's what everybody is waiting to see. Will -- will the regime decide that it can afford to crack down and not care about what Iranians feel or what the rest of the world feels? Or will it not? Will it have to figure out how to deal with this?

Analysts who I've spoken to, sources who I've spoken to, who are close to the leadership, believe that the protests will stop. That so- called the "real reformers" who are within the system, the leaders, will listen to the Ayatollah Khamenei and stop the protests and try to figure out a different strategy and a different tactic.

The question is: Will the young people who have been energized and stirred up and who want their rights, will they follow their leaders?

So, again, it's -- we're really waiting to see. It's hard to predict. We know what's happened in the past, we don't know whether this will play itself out in the present and in the future. Something has changed most definitely. Those protests are the biggest that have been seen since the Revolution and the system knows that they are now being questioned.

HOLMES: And, Christiane, did you get a sense there -- I mean, there is some reports out and some criticism that the West and western media and western leaders see this and it's just a matter of wishful thinking on their part that they hope what the students are out there -- and the young people out there doing, is wanting a regime change and a change of system there in Iran.

But did you get a sense of that being there? You were there for a while covering the lead-up to the elections, the elections, and then that it's more to it than simply Mousavi or Ahmadinejad. Did these young people and the folks in the streets, do you get a sense that they do want a systematic, a whole system-wide change there in Iran?

AMANPOUR: Some people do. It's absolutely clear, some people do. Some people are fed up with the idea of Islamic rule in the strict parameters, as they exist in Iran.

But some people, especially the leaders -- I mean, we talked to Mousavi's wife just the day before the election, she reflects what her husband feels politically. We talked to other of the reformist leaders. All of them said this is not about a counterrevolution. This is about reforming from within.

Now, if that's the case, then the system is constantly missing the opportunity to reform from within. They missed the opportunity under Khamenei for eight years. He was the president there, and instead of allowing reforms from within, they restricted heavily what was on offer there -- and the same things to be happening right now.

Again, we'll wait to see how this plays out. But certainly, some people -- certainly those people on the street who want freedom, who want real democracy, real open press, real ability to have freedom of expression, to be able to have normal relations with the rest of the world, including the United States.

But, remember, they also are a proud, patriotic nation. They don't want to be dictated to. They don't want to think that external powers are interfering or dictating to how they should -- how they should follow their political instinct.

NGUYEN: Hey, Christiane ...

AMANPOUR: They simply want to do it their own way. Yes?

NGUYEN: I'm sorry for interrupting. We're getting word from Ivan Watson that Mousavi has spoken today and we've got some information as to the rallies. So, we're going to ask to you stand by for just a second and we're going to take our viewers to our Ivan Watson there at our Iran desk.

What kind of information have you heard, Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have to be careful about this. We have not heard Mousavi speaking himself. What we do have is information coming from his Facebook page.

Let's take a look at this. A translation of it, it says: "The critical and fateful day. Do not pay attention to any rumor regarding cancellation. Credible news will be publicized at 4:00 p.m., Ingelab (ph) Square. The rally is still on.

And this, despite statements coming from Iranian state TV declaring that the planned demonstration today will be canceled. Now, of course, we can't 100 percent confirm this. This is just a Facebook page. Who knows who may have hacked into this or said what?

We are waiting for some kind of official formal statement from Mir Hossein Mousavi. But as we've seen, Iranian state media has taken control of the situation. It's very difficult for opposition to come out and speak to cameras.

And let me add this, this is a fact that our team in Tehran received today from Iran's culture minister, addressed to the international media, saying they are not allowed to make any reports without prior permission from the Iranian government. So, this information and this near complete blackout of information in Tehran right now is going on.

NGUYEN: OK. Ivan Watson, thank you for that.

We want to bring Christiane back in right now.

You know, he really hit it right on the nail. This is an information war at this point, especially for those of us trying to cover what is exactly going on in Iran. And as you heard from that Facebook page, that the rally is still on -- how do you view that, Christiane?

AMANPOUR: We're going to have to see how it plays out, if it does prove to be true, then it looks like they are ready to take risks, and they've already taken some risks. But if they think there's going to be a crackdown and they still plan, then this is a serious, serious challenge.

So we'll wait and see. It's hard, because some of these Facebook and Twitter comments have not borne out and are often based on wishful thinking and rumor, but others have. So, let's not prejudge. Let's wait and see what happens.

What's clear is this is a crucial day, it's a crucial moment. And even though the speech by the supreme leader yesterday took place, we did hear afterwards, one of the reformist leaders, Mehdi Karoubi, a cleric, again calling for an annulment of the election. And according to state television, the invitation to the opposition -- to the reform leaders and even Mohsen Rezaie, the conservative challenger to Ahmadinejad -- to come to the Guardian Council and to talk about challenges as you've been reporting. Supreme leader has told them to do that rather than go out on the streets.

According to reports, Mousavi did not go to the Guardian Council. So maybe that speaks volumes as well. Let's see how this plays out. It's clearly a critical moment and it's going to be one that we're going to have to watch very closely.

HOLMES: All right. One -- just quickly before we let you go, I know you're going to be with us throughout the morning and to watch what happens in 15 minutes now, expecting those rallies to start. But, you asked a question of the president when you were there, Ahmadinejad, and asked if he would guarantee the safety of his leading opposition candidate, Mousavi.

Is there -- he wouldn't necessarily and directly answer that question -- is there a sense still that maybe Mousavi's life could be in danger?

AMANPOUR: Possibly. You know, all bets are off if this continues. I mean, it's just not possible to make those predictions.

You remember, right after the election, there were huge amounts of rumor and counter-rumors about where he was. Was he arrested? Was he under house arrest? Was he free to come and go?

We knew because we went to his campaign headquarters to a place where he was meant to be holding a press conference the day after the election that he wasn't there, we were all waved off by armed guards and that's when the protest started, the Saturday after the election. I did ask that question deliberately because nobody knew his whereabouts. And, as you see, the answer that was given back by President Ahmadinejad was vague and metaphorical. He's basically saying that somebody who have breached the traffic regulations would be fine.

And yet, the very next day, Mousavi turned up at that rally in Azadi Square, Freedom Square, and spoke about people's rights, their votes and against the, quote, "charade of the election."

So, it's very hard to see and know how this is going to play out. What we do know is some very prominent reformists -- whether they be activists, whether they be leaders, whether they be officials of the movement -- have been systematically arrested over the last week. So, that is going on. Whether they'll touch the actual leaders, it's not clear, but it's possible.

NGUYEN: And as we wait for these -- this rally, at least one of them to begin, Christiane, we got news a little bit early this morning, you touched on it briefly. The Guardian Council is going to -- according to state-run news -- is going to recount up to 10 percent of the vote.

Now, I just want to get some clarity here, because we heard yesterday from the supreme leader that this election is definitive. Ahmadinejad is the victor in it, but yet, they are going to recount up to 10 percent of the vote. Is this just a feeble attempt to try to say to the protesters, "OK, we're going to look into it," even though the supreme leader says it's a done deal?

AMANPOUR: Let's see. I think nobody in Iran believes that a recount of 10 percent will make a difference, at least those amongst the opposition who are out in the streets, the protesters. Let's see what it -- what it shows.

It's certainly clear that the word from -- on high, the supreme leader, has -- as you said, as we all heard yesterday in a two-hour address -- clearly come down on the side of the official results and on the side of President Ahmadinejad. He reached out in that speech to what he kept referring to as the young generation. He kept calling them, you know, part of the nation; that he respected them and that they were all part of this political process.

But, again and again and again, he kept saying -- which is the main message -- which is the main message of the Islamic republic, "That this high turnout legitimizes our republic and anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong." And that is what they are sticking to, that this is a legitimization of the republic, this high turnout, and that the vote is not going to be changed. So, some people have said to me, it will take a miracle to change the official results.

HOLMES: All right. Our Christiane Amanpour standing by with us, live this morning. Christiane, thank you and glad to have you around.

Our coverage will continue here. Again, we are 10 minutes away from the planned demonstrations in Tehran. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Two rallies scheduled to start in Tehran in about eight minutes from now, but state-run media reporting the protests have been called off. Well, CNN has not independently confirmed that with opposition leaders. So, we are going to be watching and waiting to see what happens.

In the meantime, though, I want to turn now to a well-known authority on Iran affairs, that is Hooshang Amirahmadi, who is director of the Middle East Studies at Rutgers University. And he joins us this morning live from New York.

I know you have you been watching coverage this morning. Although there is very little that we can bring you out of Iran live, do you think that these protests will continue today?

HOOSHANG AMIRAHMADI, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: Well, I just heard from Tehran just about a half an hour, that a lot of the younger, particularly student, demonstrations will be on them are pouring into the streets. But I believe that the number will be small and the protesters will be very constrained, as well as the government will be very restrained in terms of the use of force.

I think this is a day that will pass and I don't think is a destiny day for the Islamic republic as is being portrayed outside. I think, I think there will be clashes, unfortunately. But I believe it will pass.

NGUYEN: Who are you hearing at from? Is this a verified source?

AMIRAHMADI: Yes, it's from the family members.

NGUYEN: OK. And have people -- you said people have already started pouring into the streets?

AMIRAHMADI: There are some people who are coming. Others are not. But there are, of course, the CNN was reporting, there are conflicting news as to who is saying what. Obviously, the leaders of the opposition have called up for this rally.

But, remember, that this movement is not controlled by Mr. Mousavi and Karoubi. There are people who are thinking and acting way beyond the leadership, and that, indeed, this movement doesn't really have a leadership in the sense that like, for example, 1979 Revolution. That was Ayatollah Khamenei.

This revolution doesn't have a leadership of that sort. It's -- Mr. Mousavi and Karoubi were candidates for the election, and now, the people are asking for the vote, because they voted for them. And so, and they -- I don't believe that these two gentlemen do control the streets. And the streets could easily fall into the hands of people that nobody knows who they are.

NGUYEN: So, essentially, what you are saying is that this is more than just an election. This is more than just getting a revote for Mousavi. This is about true reform on many angles, and these are just -- Mousavi may just be a figurehead that's being used right now to push that agenda, to push those reforms.

AMIRAHMADI: Exactly. There are two struggles going on in this election or this crisis. One is what I call the intra-elite struggle -- the conflict between the top elites of the Islamic republic who have just decided that they cannot live together any longer. And the second includes the people versus the regime, and this people -- all kinds of unmet expectations, they are fed up with mismanagement of the government, of social and cultural restrains, and many other international and domestic problems that Iran faces.

And also, I believe that this goes beyond elections, because after all, the reform movement had the government in its hands for eight years, just about four years ago, and that was President Khatami, and even they have the parliament. And the reformers know that even if they were to win this election, they wouldn't do much. They wouldn't be able to do much more than President Khatami did.

So, therefore, I don't believe this is just a fight over a re-election or election. After all, I believe that another mistake that the reformers are making at this point is that they are calling for re- election as opposed to calling for free elections. The problem is, if they were to have a re-election, the whole thing would be played again.

NGUYEN: I was just going to say, wouldn't it be just, you know, a replay of exactly what we saw?

AMIRAHMADI: Yes, the replay of the same thing. What they need to do is to have a free election. So then the Guardian Council will not let people who are --

NGUYEN: Well, that's going to require a complete overhaul of the system in order for that to happen. That's why we're seeing the protests in the streets.

Unfortunately, we are running out of time. I'd love to continue to speak with you ...

AMIRAHMADI: Sure. My pleasure.

NGUYEN: ... as we're waiting, just minutes away, in fact, from the scheduled protests to take place. Hooshang Amirahmadi, thank you so much for your insight today.

AMIRAHMADI: My pleasure, Betty.

NGUYEN: Thank you.

I do want to tell our viewers that President Obama's response to Iran is not sitting well with critics on Capitol Hill. They want tougher language from the president. Is he being too soft? We're going to delve into that issue as well.

Stay right here. You're watching CNN SATURDAY MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Good morning, everybody and welcome back. We have special coverage on this Saturday. I'm Betty Nguyen.

HOLMES: And hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes. Thank you so much for being with us.

Well, a lot of people right now are talking about the president and his response to this whole thing. Well, he's walking a pretty delicate line here. Responding to the election crisis happening in Iran he's careful not to openly support anti-government protests, but his restraint could make him vulnerable to domestic criticism.

Here is what he had to say on CBS yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES: I'm very concerned, based on some of the tenor and tone of the statements that have been made that the government of Iran recognizes that the world is watching. And how they approach and deal with people who are through peaceful means trying to be heard will, I think, send a pretty clear signal to the international community about what Iran is and is not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So, some asking and then others flat-out suggesting that the president is being too soft in his response to this crisis.

CNN correspondent Kate Bolduan joins us now live from the White House.

Kate, good morning. Some are saying the president is just being a little too measured in his response.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, T.J.

Well, despite increasing pressure for the president to say more and do more in terms as it relates to the Iranian election and the demonstrations that have been going on, the White House has not changed its hands-off approach. The president is saying earlier this week that he doesn't think it's productive to be seen as meddling in the internal affairs of Iran. The administration has maintained a cautious position throughout.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs is saying that the White House, that the administration doesn't want to be drawn in to become a topic or an issue over in the political debate over in Iran. Listen in here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're not going to be used as political foils and political footballs in a debate that's happening by Iranians in Iran. There are many people in the leadership that would love us to get involved. And would love to trot out the same old foils they have for many years. That's not what we're going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Many members of Congress clearly feel differently. Republicans coming up very strongly to criticize the president, saying that there is a moral obligation here to speak out and stand behind these protesters who are fighting for free and fair election over there, T.J.

HOLMES: Yes, people waiting on the president to say more and do more, but others aren't waiting around. Others up there on Capitol Hill are trying to make some kind of, at least, symbolic statement.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Both the House and the Senate overwhelmingly passed nonbinding resolutions to support the protesters as well as condemn any violence that's happening over in Iran in terms of those demonstrations.

Listen here to Republican Senator John McCain. He introduced the Senate version.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's unfortunate in a way that this resolution is required since the administration doesn't want to, quote, "meddle" and has refused, the president has refused to speak out in support of these brave Iranian citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, bottom line, T.J., if there would be an escalation in violence, if the regime would crackdown and use force to kind of try to quiet and stop these demonstrations, it will be interesting and important to watch and see if the president -- if the administration does change its tone, as some would expect. If there is violence, we could expect to see the president to come out with a more significant statement.

HOLMES: All right. Our Kate Bolduan for us from the White House this morning -- thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

HOLMES: And, of course, on CNN this weekend. Christiane Amanpour, she is sharing her firsthand look and worldwide reaction to the explosive election in Iran, "From the Streets of Iran," tonight and tomorrow night, 7 o'clock Eastern, right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right. What you are looking at here, folks, is what we have been looking at and what we are at the mercy of right now. This is Iranian state-run television. The emphasis on state-run television, this is what we have to depend on to try to get pictures out of Iran right now and it is happening. It is past the deadline now or time at least for two scheduled rallies, protest rallies that were scheduled for Tehran. It's happening at 4 o'clock there in Tehran, local time, it's 7:30 Eastern Time. We're about 7:37 Eastern Time.

None of the Iranian television stations have broken in to report that news, to show any pictures of any protests that are happening. There have been conflicting reports about whether or not one or both of those rallies have been canceled. We have not been able to confirm that at all.

So, as far as we know, the protests could be going on right now. But given restrictions that have been put on foreign press, we cannot show them to you. We do not have a way to show those pictures to you unless Iranian state television brings it to you. And as you see, you see a couple of movies going on on Iranian state television right. You also a little news coverage, but nothing about the protests.

We will continue to keep an eye on that, and also our reporter is there. But, again, being restricted now, has to get permission, has to get the OK before he can even files a single report.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. He is limited to one report per day. That ended yesterday and today, the day of the protests that the, you know, supreme leader said, "We don't want you out in the streets" -- well, today our correspondent was told, no, you can't even do that one report. You have to submit a request and if it's granted, then perhaps you can do it.

But we've got a lot going on and we're following it, and waiting to hear word if, indeed, protests have taken place today.

Our Ivan Watson joined us from the Iran desk. He is monitoring many different sites, as well as many different channels and stations and satellite feeds all over the world.

What are you hearing at this moment, Ivan, about the protest and whether or not they are a go?

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, let me tell you that sources on the ground in Tehran are describing a lot of police presence on the ground. Not carrying clubs, but now carrying guns -- and that is an ominous sign.

Because we can't operate, we're pulling some video from Web sites, from YouTube, from Facebook. Let me show you something just to give a sense of the atmosphere in Tehran. This first video is evidently taken last night. We've pulled it from YouTube, and you can hear people -- take a listen -- yelling "Allahu Akbar" from the rooftops of Iran. Take a listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: And, Betty, you can hear a woman, the narrator, evidently a camerawoman in the background, and she's saying things in a very sad voice, "We do not get any help, we are strangled, we are oppressed, how can we get the message out to the world?"

And this phenomenon, people going on the rooftops, yelling "Allahu Akbar", "God is great," that has been a symbol of defiance against the regime after last week's contested elections.

One other video I'd like to say you, Betty. This evidently comes -- and we're getting this from YouTube, comes from the city of Esfahan, and it shows the Basiji militia conducting a raid, a very brutal raid on what looks like an apartment building.

Take a look at this, Betty, right now.

We can see -- we should be able to see the motorcycles moving around, Basij, pro-government militia going in. You can hear people screaming in the background. This is taking place at night.

And the reason why this is very important, Betty, is, our sources, my sources in Tehran, have been describing these types of raids going on at night after the street protest that have taken place during the course of the day, against the results of those contested elections last week.

NGUYEN: Ivan, I want to hear a little more about the Basiji militia -- because some of our viewers may not be very familiar with it. But this is a group that has been mobilized. And a lot of times, they walk the streets in plain clothes. You don't even know that they are a member of the militia, correct?

WATSON: Absolutely. In Farsi, Basij means mobilize, and in the 1980s, during the Iran/Iraq war, these were volunteers who went to fight against Iran's neighbor, Iraq. Now, since then, they've become much more of a moral police, a vigilante force. They're supported by the state.

And these are the guys who, if they don't like the way a woman is dressed, if they don't think it's conservative enough, they may detain her or slap her around. If they don't like a man's haircut, if they think it's too western, too modern, they may slap him around or beat him, and there had been numerous cases. I've talked to eyewitnesses who describe the Basij cracking heads.

They've also been used, Betty, in previous street demonstrations, uprising, in 1999 and 2003. When university students, they protested against the number, the Basiji went in, on motorcycles, as we saw in one of these videos just now, with chains and clubs, and really beat those university students to the point that those protests were eventually crushed -- Betty?

NGUYEN: So, will this militia be -- the main members -- out there in the street that would enforce this crackdown if protesters do attend the rallies?

WATSON: These are one of the levers of power that the Iranian regime has. They, of course, also have the police. They have the very powerful Revolutionary Guard. It's very important to note that the Basij, they declared their support and that they were 100 percent behind the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei at those Friday prayers yesterday at Tehran University when Ayatollah Khamenei said he will not tolerate street protesters, Betty.

NGUYEN: And we're not talking about just a small band of militia members. Iranian government says there are up to 5 million members. So, this quite a large group, correct?

WATSON: This is a huge group. They receive some training. They receive some weapons and they are paid by the state, Betty.

NGUYEN: OK. Well, again, we have no confirmation as to exactly what is happening at those rally sites. Right now, no word as to whether they are taking place or that they have, indeed, been canceled -- although state-run media backed by Ahmadinejad has put out several hours ago that a report that one of the rallies has been canceled. But according to our sources there, in country, we have not heard confirmation from those opposition leaders or from the organizers of these rallies. So, for all we know, they could be taking place right now.

HOLMES: All right. Well, if you have something to say about Iran, you can certainly send it to us. You know how to get a hold of us by now. Weekends@CNN.com, on Twitter, on Facebook, as well. So, please, by all means, chime in.

NGUYEN: Well, the political divide between America and Iran -- it spans decades.

HOLMES: These two nations -- are they going to agree? We'll explore some of the possibilities. Stay here.

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HOLMES: All right. Once again, we're keeping an eye on a couple of rallies that were scheduled to happen -- opposition rallies scheduled to happen in Tehran, in Iran today. They were set to happen about 15 minutes ago. We're still waiting for possible word of what's happening there.

Again, restriction on what the foreign press can do. So, we are depending on Iranian state television for a lot of this. So, stand by. As soon as we get something, we will bring it to you.

Meanwhile, I got Badi Badiozamani with me here. He's an Iran expert, author and scholar.

So, we appreciate you. I was trying to chat with you a little bit before we came on here. But, again, what we have been seeing here, these massive protests of several days, the supreme leader came out and spoke yesterday.

BADI BADIOZAMANI, AUTHOR, SCHOLAR, AND IRAN EXPERT: Yes.

HOLMES: But, is it a matter of time before these things start to quell, what he was trying to quell, and we stop seeing these street protests?

BADIOZAMANI: Well, we don't know whether we're going to see these protests to stop. We don't know. Nobody knows. First, we don't have any information from Iran, any credible information from Iran. So, we just have to wait and see, unfortunately.

HOLMES: Did it go a long way to have him come out and say what he said yesterday, which is essentially Ahmadinejad won, it was definitive, and stop what you're doing out there in the streets?

BADIOZAMANI: Yes. Well, people took to the streets several days, and this was kind of unprecedented and especially the numbers that we saw of the people out there. So, that was amazing. And then finally, the supreme leader came and said, stop it.

But this reminds us of something that happened about 10 years ago, during the Khatami regime.

HOLMES: Yes.

BADIOZAMANI: And then after the supreme leader said, that's it, everybody went home apparently, you know, where Khatami backed off. But now, today, we don't know.

HOLMES: What do you see that is different? Besides just the numbers, do you sense a psyche or an objective by those protesters that's different from what we saw 10 years ago? Aside from just the mass numbers being difference, is there anything else that feels different?

BADIOZAMANI: The objective seems to be the same -- democracy, freedom, and things like that. What I see this time is more energy -- a lot more energy, and in great numbers as we said before.

Also, some of the tactics that I see, kind of remind me of the start of the Revolution back in 1979, taking up and going all the way to the rooftops and shouting "Allahu Akbar." This is what this regime, this people, used against the shah's regime.

HOLMES: Now, you talk about this. Some of it seems the same, the sentiment, things you may have seen before. But you see more energy here. Are they energized by the candidates? Does Mousavi necessarily seem to be that much of a reformist who would really lead or try to lead Iran away from the Islamic republic it's been for the past 30 years?

BADIOZAMANI: No.

HOLMES: No.

BADIOZAMANI: No. He is a figurehead. He is a means. He's a tool, so to speak. Without any pun intended.

HOLMES: Yes.

BADIOZAMANI: But it's just a way, pressure bar (ph), so to speak, or a means for people to take to the streets and then hope that this will evolve into something else.

HOLMES: OK. He is just -- interesting way to put it. Again, we appreciate you being here, Badi Badiozamani. But that's an interesting way to wrap it up there and to put it, is that he is just a -- tool is the word you use, but they are the movement. He's not necessarily.

BADIOZAMANI: Yes.

HOLMES: And he -- they are essentially going to use him to get that message out. A very interesting way to put it. We appreciate you being here with us this morning.

BADIOZAMANI: My pleasure.

HOLMES: Thank you so much. Betty?

NGUYEN: Well, Iran's supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, is backing the election results and calling for an end to the protests, and he's using a warning, saying those who stirred up the violence will be held accountable. We have continuing coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right. So, when the ayatollah spoke at the Tehran University yesterday, thousands were chanting "Death to America, death to Britain."

Well, Trita Paris is the president of the National Iranian American Council, the largest Iranian American organization in the U.S. He joins us now from Washington.

When you heard those chants yesterday, Trita, were you surprised at all?

TRITA PARSI, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL IRANIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: No, not at all. I mean, you have these chants at hard line rallies for quite some time. And one has to say that, you know, the insincerity in which it is being said with right now is unmistakable. Not to say that there isn't tremendous opposition to U.S. policies, and particularly among some of the hardliners. But it is one image of Iran that betrays a much greater and much larger reality in Iran, which is that the vast majority of Iranian tend to have a rather positive view of the United States as a country and as culture, but not necessarily its policies.

NGUYEN: I have to ask you this. A lot of people have wondered whether President Obama has taken a hard enough stand on the situation in Iran, whether he has come out saying enough. What is your stand on that?

PARSI: Now, I would have to say that the president has done exactly the right thing so far. He's been very strong in his condemnations of human rights violations, but he's been very careful not to make America an issue in this debate, any side of it (ph). And I think we have to remind ourselves of one very important point, those who have said that the president should have taken a particular side or even siding with a candidates, I'm curious to see if they actually have asked those candidates if they think it's a good idea. We know that those inside Iran are not asking for that type of an explicit support, so why should we push for it.

NGUYEN: And, let me ask you. There are people here -- we have had continuing coverage, special coverage since 5:00 a.m. this morning, waiting to see what's going to happen. If the protesters will indeed go to the streets against what the supreme leader has warned them of doing, why should Americans care about what is going in Iran?

PARSI: Oh, they should care, because Iran is one of the most important countries in the region. And what you're seeing in Iran right now will not just have an impact on Iran and the future of that country, and the future policies of that country, but for the entire Middle East. So, not caring about what is happening in Iran, it might be a great mistake because Iran is going to be a very important actor, determining how and when the United States can stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan, when U.S. troops can live those places.

NGUYEN: All right. Trita Parsi, joining us ...

PARSI: Thank you.

NGUYEN: ... president of the National Iranian American Council, we do appreciate your time today.

PARSI: Appreciate it.

HOLMES: And here we are now, about five minutes to the top of the hour. That is 25 minutes past the time of scheduled rallies in Iran today. We have not gotten confirmation whether or not those rallies have or are taken place.

We can put this picture up and show you what we are at the mercy of now. Iranian state television, folks -- again, state-run television. We have been restricted, the foreign press has been restricted about what we can and cannot cover. So, we're waiting and watching those pictures if Iranian state TV starts to cover those protests.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, as we continue our special coverage of the situation in Iran, we are hearing from you this morning about it. Let me take the first on my Facebook page. And Daniel Vega (ph) says, "Ayatollah Ali Khamenei needs to make amends with his people and be the man of God he claims to be. The challenge is on."

I think you have a couple, too, right?

HOLMES: Well, we are getting a lot of response. A lot of people are asking about, curious about the coverage we're having here. And, of course, as always, you see there how you can get a hold of us. And we are getting them in.

We don't have as much time right now because of so much coverage we've had. We're certainly going to bring you some of those a little later. So, please, keep those coming in. We will continue to share those this morning. A whole lot of information we're still trying to gather about what's happening right now in Iran.

Stay with us. Quick break.

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