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Nancy Grace
Prosecutors Want Photos of Casey Anthony Tattoo
Aired June 22, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, the desperate search for 2- year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 house from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee`s. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Torpedo to the defense. After grandparents George and Cindy Anthony tearfully beg a trial judge not to release 2-year-old Caylee`s autopsy report, the judge reluctantly follows the law. We have that report detailing the examination of little Caylee. For one thing, layer upon layer of duct tape wrapped over Caylee`s mouth, and importantly, over her nose and hair. But what does it prove? What else do we learn from that report tonight? We break it down and put it back together again, exactly what this disturbing report means about how Caylee died and how her little body was discarded.
And tonight, prosecutors head to the jailhouse to photograph tot mom`s back left shoulder. Why? To snap her latest tattoo, sparkling letters that read "Bella vita" -- "the beautiful life." Significance? Tot mom gets the tattoo days after Caylee goes missing. Tonight, with us, the owner of that tattoo parlor, describing in detail tot mom`s demeanor, about her gushing about a new boyfriend and what she said about little Caylee, even promising to bring Caylee to the tattoo parlor.
And tonight, the state demands a speedy trial on tot mom`s forged check charges. Is it a maneuver, a tactical maneuver? Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bombshell and most damming evidence in the autopsy report is that Caylee Anthony`s killer, allegedly her mother, Casey, put several overlapping layers of duct tape over her mouth and jaw.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: My wife and I come before you today and are asking you to consider our family`s concern for the public release of our granddaughter`s autopsy report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Legal analyst Bill Scheaffer believes those layers of tape play a big role in Caylee`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The duct tape was placed there not as an afterthought, but to in fact, stop breathing.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Our family`s memory of our precious Caylee Marie is all we have left of her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the autopsy report says Caylee`s bones were found under the autumn leaves, but over muck in the swampy wetland, which indicates the body had already decomposed before fall of last year.
GEORGE ANTHONY: We believe that allowing the medical to be released to -- publicly, display the report at this time, will allow others to dissect, misinterpret and sensationalize the information, which will ultimately tarnish Caylee`s memory and cause severe emotional harm to our family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not happy to make the ruling. In fact, I wish I didn`t have to. But it`s something I legally have to do. The motion to restrict disclosure is denied, and the items can be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, music superstar Rihanna`s near deadly attack just before she takes the stage at the Grammys. Stunning photos of a bloodied and beaten Rihanna go public. Her alleged attacker, boyfriend R&B superstar Chris Brown. Well, just hours ago, Rihanna set to take the stand about the night she`s beaten to a pulp, a sweetheart plea deal goes down. Brown now set to walk scot-free. Worst case scenario for him, after he brutally beats her, threatens to kill her? He may -- may -- have to go pick up some trash on the side of the road. Are you kidding? No, I am not!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. A plea deal has been reached in the Chris Brown-Rihanna story. Chris Brown gets five years probation, also 180 days of community monitoring.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The complaint against Brown charges with assault by means likely to produce great bodily injury and criminal threats, both felonies, in an attack against the singer Rihanna. The alleged attack happened the night before the Grammys, when the couple was riding in his Lamborghini. According to a detective`s sworn statement, Brown became enraged after Rihanna read a text message on his cell phone from a woman he had a previous sexual relationship with.
The affidavit says Brown took his right hand and shoved her head against the passenger window, punched her in the left eye and continued to punch her in the face, causing her mouth to fill with blood and blood to splatter all over her clothing. The affidavit says Brown then told her, I`m going to beat the blank out of you when we get home. You wait and see. Now I`m really going to kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Torpedo to the defense! After grandparents George and Cindy Anthony tearfully beg a trial judge not to release 2-year-old Caylee`s autopsy report, the judge reluctantly follows the law. But what do we learn? We have that report.
And tonight, prosecutors head to the jailhouse. They want to take photos of tot mom`s back left shoulder. But why? Because sparkly tattoo letters spell out "La bella vita" -- "the good life." Tonight with us, the owner of the tattoo parlor telling us what tot mom had to say about her little girl and her new love interest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The remains had to have been there much longer than a few weeks. They are assuming that those remains were there not too long after the last day Caylee Anthony was found (SIC), which was June 16th of 2008.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Protection of our family`s right to privacy and our emotional wellbeing, as all of you know, has been tossed aside over and over again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the duct tape, which was placed over the child`s mouth and held the mandible, the jawbone, to the skull so that animals could not normally separate it.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Our family is still hurting and grieving the loss of Caylee Marie. And if the court will allow, Judge, please, give us some peace and show her some dignity by keeping this report sealed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t like the ruling that I`m making. I`m going to deny your motion to restrict disclosure. But I think it`s one that I legally have to make.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody said the rage that was used to apply it - - there was a lot of rage involved in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the anthropological reports that put that body, being, as they said, dumped in the woods, at or about the time that she was last seen with her mother, that points to Casey as being the killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to anchor/reporter Mark Williams standing by there in Orlando. Mark, what`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: The latest, Nancy, is that the prosecution in the case wants to go into the jail and take a picture of Casey`s tattoo, "La bella vita," which means, "a beautiful life," that`s on her left back. Prosecutors didn`t say why they wanted the photo, but obviously Caylee wasn`t around when she got that tattoo from a tattoo artist about a year ago. Prosecutors only say that it will be relevant...
GRACE: Well, hold on. Specifically, Mark Williams, wasn`t it on July 6, and we know that Caylee last seen alive around June 16?
WILLIAMS: That`s right. You hit it right on the head. But prosecutors say this tattoo is going to be relevant. Also, the tattoo artist said that Casey told him that she had a new love in her life -- "La bella vita" means "a beautiful life" -- and he was at a Yankees baseball game in the Big Apple.
GRACE: Straight out to a very special guest joining us tonight, Danny Knight. He is the owner of Cast Iron Tattoo, where tot mom gets "La bella vita" tattoo. He was interviewed by the police. Mr. Knight, thank you for being with us.
DANNY KNIGHT, OWNER, CAST IRON TATTOO (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good. Mr. Knight, it was your tattoo parlor. Am I to understand that tot mom, Casey Anthony, had been there many times before?
KNIGHT: Yes. She was a regular customer. She came in with a small group of friends. And any time one of them got tattooed, they would all usually come in together.
GRACE: Mr. Knight, how many tattoos does she have?
KNIGHT: Just two.
GRACE: OK. The one I`m interested in is the one that she got July 6. Now, one of your employees gave her that tattoo, but you spoke to her a few days later there in the tattoo parlor. Yes, no.
KNIGHT: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: What did she have to say?
KNIGHT: She actually was coming in to make an appointment for the following Saturday. And being she was a regular customer, you talked to her like a friendly regular customer. And we talked about -- she was on her way to the airport to pick up some friends that were coming in from Puerto Rico.
GRACE: And why was she making another appointment?
KNIGHT: She was going to get an additional tattoo. She didn`t tell me what she was getting, but she was just going to come in the following Saturday.
GRACE: Now, your employee that gave her that tattoo, did he notice anything unusual about her demeanor?
KNIGHT: No. He said she was as normal as could be, you know, every other time that she had been in here.
GRACE: Now, Mr. Knight, when you spoke to her a couple of days later, did she mention her daughter?
KNIGHT: Actually, I did. I am a father, so when we have regular customers -- and we are a family-friendly shop, so we allow kids in with their parents -- I asked, you know, Where`s...
GRACE: And she said?
KNIGHT: ... your daughter at? I haven`t seen her in a while.
GRACE: What did she say?
KNIGHT: She told me that she was with the nanny and that she would bring her in with her Saturday.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. What did she have to say to the guy that gave her the tattoo, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, as Mark Williams said, she was perfectly happy that day. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. She started talking about this new guy she was dating, who we presume was Anthony Lazzaro. She said he wasn`t with her because he up in New York, where he`s from. He was at a Yankee game.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that there was no flesh and no hair attached to the duct tape. Yet that`s what goes out in the media and that`s what people assume to be true. And that`s the unfair part, is that this young lady has not had her opportunity in court yet, yet people have drawn conclusions from discovery that`s out there. Discovery is documents that are put forth by the state, testing, statements, written statements, oral statements, taped statements. But evidence is what happens in court.
GRACE: Doctor, explain to me whether hair can reveal the presence of chloroform poisoning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if it`s been used over and over, you can see it in chronicity. I think in an acute case...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Wait! What? What did you just say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, in chronicity. You know, it takes time for the chloroform to get into the hair and the hair has to grow out of the follicle. And so if we`re saying, in this case, for example, there was just once incidence where the chloroform was used to knock her out, tape her mouth, and so forth, it may not get into the hair, so we`ve got to look at the fat, the skin.
GRACE: Dr. Makary, what about Xanax or chloroform over an extended period of time? I don`t necessarily mean that day, the day that she died.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yes, that`s a good point, Nancy. If it were taken over a period of time, such as a couple weeks, it could show up in hair. Basically, it needs to grow in the hair follicle, so it would be those weeks as hair grows out. Otherwise, a single dose or an overdose or lethal dose would not be detectable in hair samples.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, what more can you tell us?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, there were other things that were revealed in that autopsy report that are interesting, the length of time that the medical examiner believes that Caylee`s remains were in those woods, at least four months, going back to the plant growth. But the report also notes that the remains would have had to have been completely skeletonized and stabilized before the plant growth, which could take you back to June of last year.
Also, the pink shirt that was found with the remains may be the same pink top that George Anthony said he last saw Caylee alive in on June 16th.
GRACE: And also, as I recall -- correct me if I`m wrong, Ellie Jostad, but wasn`t the description of her clothing -- didn`t it include multi-colored shorts, which were found deteriorated there at the scene?
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right. There was a white pair of shorts, Circo (ph) brand, which is sold at Target. They had pastel thin stripes on the shorts.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Betty in Michigan. Hi, Betty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, I`m curious. I know at the beginning, there was talk about a plea deal or maybe a possibility of a plea deal. You would think that, as a good attorney, he would try to tell her that maybe that would be the best way for her to go, since there`s so much evidence against her.
GRACE: Let`s unleash lawyers. Joining me tonight special prosecutor Eleanor Dixon out of the Atlanta district, who specializes on crimes on children. Also with me, defense attorney out of Atlanta Peter Odom and famed attorney Daniel Horowitz, defense attorney out of San Francisco. Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, why would the prosecutors want a plea deal at this point? They`ve got strong evidence. They`ve got good evidence. They`ve got to go for the death penalty. It`s appropriate.
GRACE: You know, Peter Odom, I recall, prosecuting for so many years, once you get your case ready for trial, when I was doing it, the more I would work on a case, the more I would be convinced that I need the maximum sentence. So letting the state put together and construct this case against her, a plea deal at this point -- I don`t see it happening. Who in their right mind would back down off the death penalty with all this evidence?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, right now, Nancy, the prosecution is focusing on the word "undetermined" in that autopsy. The cause of death is undetermined. The state has charged this young woman with purposely causing this child`s death, and the autopsy says undetermined. It might be a good time for the prosecutors to start thinking about taking a plea.
GRACE: Put Odom up! Peter Odom, isn`t it true that you yourself have knowledge of cases proven and a conviction without a body at all? Yes, no.
ODOM: Yes. And on your best day, Nancy, you`re able to do it. But the prosecution in this case knows it`s a hurdle and they`re going to be trying to cut their losses at trial.
GRACE: Peter, now, I don`t know how familiar you are with the autopsy report, but isn`t it true that the medical examiner leaves no doubt this is a homicide?
ODOM: The state`s medical examiner does, but that same autopsy has been viewed by other people who say that it really cannot be said that it`s a homicide, at this point. There`s no physical evidence.
GRACE: Please put Mr. Odom on the screen! You say other people. What other people, Peter? Uh, uh, wha -- who?
ODOM: Sorry, I don`t remember his name...
GRACE: OK...
ODOM: ... but one of the people that looked at the autopsy reports...
GRACE: You don`t know who he is.
ODOM: ... Nancy. And also, no one can say...
GRACE: And he said what?
ODOM: No one can...
GRACE: He said what?
ODOM: He`s focusing on no one can say that this -- how this child died.
GRACE: So?
ODOM: And even the medical examiner that did this autopsy...
GRACE: No! I want you to tell me, should a defendant, a -- I`m throw it to you, Horowitz. Should a killer get a gold star, an A-plus-plus because he or she can keep the body hidden for so long that the cause of death is undeterminable?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course, part of the flaw here is that the prosecutors and the police left the body there, overlooked it for a while. So that will hurt them a bit. But you`re right, Nancy, bottom line...
GRACE: I`m sorry. I could not hear you. What was overlooked?
HOROWITZ: You heard me say you`re right on something, which I know I`m sorry I said that. But in the end, you`re right. The jury will find that she was killed with chloroform and probably smothered with the tape or some version of it, and they won`t care that there`s ambiguity there. And I think the prosecution might go for life without the possibility of parole.
GRACE: Hold on. I want to go back to Odom.
HOROWITZ: That`s possible.
GRACE: Horowitz, you`re making a lot of sense tonight. I`m scared.
HOROWITZ: Uh-oh!
(LAUGHTER)
HOROWITZ: I`m scared, too.
GRACE: Odom, if this were not...
ODOM: You always make sense.
GRACE: ... a homicide -- if this were not a homicide, why the duct tape? Why the body in triple bags? Why?
ODOM: Nancy, what I`m saying is they`ve charged her with purposefully killing this child. Even if they prove it`s a homicide...
GRACE: So I`m asking you...
ODOM: ... how are they going to prove it`s purposeful?
GRACE: ... if this is not a homicide, a murder, then why was she disposed this way?
ODOM: Then why what, Nancy? Sorry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your daughter throughout that time was indicating that Zanny had her, right?
GEORGE ANTHONY: At the beginning, sir, that`s what I was told, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, did -- some time during the time she was missing, before the remains were found, did...
GEORGE ANTHONY: You know something? If you say "the remains" one more time, sir, I`m walking out this door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: How dare you say that about my granddaughter. How dare you. How dare you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to the lines. Pat in Florida. Hi, Pat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m very curious about the duct tape across the little girl`s mouth. I can`t imagine a child holding still and allowing that to happen. I would assume either she was restrained, the killer had help, or she was unconscious. Did they find any evidence of other restraints on her?
GRACE: Interesting question. I think, Pat, that it`s going to be difficult to find evidence of restraints, such as on the wrist, because when the child`s body was found, it was completely skeletonized. In other words, there was no more flesh. So bruising or laceration around the wrists would not have shown up.
I want to go to Marc Klaas, president of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, what do you make of the judge releasing the autopsy?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I`m glad that the judge did release the autopsy. I believe that the -- that the Anthonys are doing nothing but blowing smoke up everybody`s -- in everybody`s face in an effort to gain sympathy for their situation. They`ve been able to convince themselves of absolutely everything. They`re in more denial than I`ve almost seen a victim`s family in, in my entire experience. So you know, they`re going to have to -- they`re going to have to tough it up and take this thing to trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Florida judge, Stan Strickland, rules Caylee Anthony`s autopsy report can be released publicly.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I am upset now. I`m completely upset. One, the media is going to have a freaking field day with this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you say it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you come from?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: This last year has been an emotional strain on our entire family, and including Caylee`s great grandparents. The protection of our family`s rights and privacy and emotional well-being, as all of you know, has been tossed aside over and over again.
I hope I`m the one that actually taught her "You Are My Sunshine." She was my sunshine.
I have a locket right now with me, and it has "My sunshine, My Caylee" on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I didn`t have to, but it`s something I legally have to do. So the motion to restrict disclosure is denied, and the items can be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Let`s go over what we are learning in the just-released autopsy report, the report that details the doctor`s examination of little Caylee`s remains.
Back out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, one thing that was interesting to me, and I want to talk about what it`s going to prove, is that her vertebrae, her spine, had been dragged away from her body, apparently by animals, and was intact. The vertebrae had -- the spine had growth up in it, dating back at least four months. What does that prove?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Well, what they`re trying to show is that those remains were there long enough for plant activity, roots to grow up, not only through that vertebrae, but also from a Winnie the Pooh blanket that we heard was found at the scene with the remains. There were roots growing all the way through that blanket.
GRACE: And I want to go now to Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver.
Dr. Arnall, there was no indication of chloroform, but isn`t it true - - I mean they`re looking at a skeleton. They have no tissue, no skin, no internal organs, nothing. Isn`t it true for chloroform to show up you`d basically have to chug it like you`re a freshman in college at a kegger? I mean you`ve got to ingest a lot of chloroform for it to show up, for instance, in your hair.
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That`s right, Nancy. And the tissue is all gone.
GRACE: And Doctor, what does it say to you that it wasn`t just one piece of duct tape over her mouth, it was wrapped around and around and around with many pieces of tape over her mouth and over her nose specifically, over her nostrils?
ARNALL: It`s inevitable that someone is going to ask the question, gosh, isn`t it possible that the child was crying and this duct tape was placed in order to prevent the child`s screams from being heard. This would not be the first time that a child has asphyxiated after a parent tried to muffle the screams.
GRACE: Dr. Arnall, isn`t it true that we know the duct tape was placed over her mouth and nose before her body begins to deteriorate? In fact, didn`t the duct tape actually hold the mandible, the jawbone in place attached to her skull? If it hadn`t been for that duct tape, it would not still be attached.
ARNALL: We know that now once the autopsy report was released. We know that now is the case.
GRACE: Now, Dr. Arnall, do you place any significance on the fact that her head was separated from her body? What does that show? What does that prove if anything?
ARNALL: Well, the head is adjacent to some bones from the feet and hands. The body was probably all in one location when the tissue was all present. Then as the body decomposed, parts of the body were dragged elsewhere.
What it means is that the body was in the early stages of decomposition when it was first placed at that location.
GRACE: Dr. Arnall, how can a medical examiner determine that animals have actually chewed on Caylee`s bones?
ARNALL: There are bite marks on the bones indicating that animals had left their tooth marks on the bones. In addition, the way the bones were scattered indicates that carnivores were dragging pieces of the body away from the first area of deposition.
GRACE: To Eleanor Dixon, you tried a lot of homicide cases, as have I. You tried death penalty cases. Do you ever get sick of hearing this kind of discussion about a little girl`s body?
I understand as a crime victim myself why George and Cindy Anthony do not want the autopsy report released because they don`t want to hear discussion about it. However, in light of the fact that it is a criminal case, it will be discussed. Not only in court, but by legal analysts, by anybody watching the trial.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: You know, Nancy, you`re right. It`s just disgusting. What really hurts me is what I would do in closing argument is show a picture of little Caylee in life next to a picture of her bones that were found there at the scene and what a powerful image that is. That shows the intent of Casey Anthony.
GRACE: I mean, Eleanor, you have a daughter, a beautiful daughter that you have spent -- as long as I`ve known you, for years, trying to raise her into the young lady she is today. Can you imagine hearing the discussion of an animal chewing at her bones?
DIXON: It just is inconceivable, Nancy. I can`t imagine that. And my heart just goes out to the Anthonys and in this case. And again, this just shows the intent of Casey Anthony.
GRACE: but I`m telling you, to you Odom and Horowitz, as horrible and upsetting as this may be, it is the state`s duty to discuss it -- not only discuss it but prove it at trial. So Horowitz, what do you think about the possibility of a plea deal?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think that a plea deal should be in the works. I think if she had a good attorney, he would have made a plea deal before life and death were the only options that she had.
And if Eleanor tried to put in in my case, if I was defending this case, and tried to put in a picture of the child alive and the bones side by side, I would object.
GRACE: Put Horowitz back.
HOROWITZ: . because it would have to be based on the facts, not emotions.
GRACE: Put Horowitz up on the screen. Horowitz, just a couple of yes-no answers if you can do that. Won`t it be significant what Caylee was wearing the day she went missing? Wouldn`t a photo of that be significant?
HOROWITZ: Yes. Sure. That should be there.
GRACE: All right. So if that photo is in evidence and photos of her autopsy are in evidence, there is nothing under the law stopping the prosecutor from juxtapositioning them side by side in front of the jury. There`s nothing.
HOROWITZ: There is.
GRACE: . to stop that. No, there`s not. If they`re both in evidence.
HOROWITZ: The prosecutor is urging -- they`re urging a verdict based on emotion and horror, not on the facts that lead to guilt, innocence, manslaughter or something else. You can`t appeal to raw emotion only when you argue. And that`s what that does. And a good judge would not let that in.
GRACE: Eleanor, that is a complete distortion of the law, is it not?
DIXON: Well, that`s true, Nancy, because you`re arguing reasonable conclusions from the facts. And I`m sorry if it gets a little emotional for the defense attorneys. That`s the facts. That`s what happened.
GRACE: And to you, Peter Odom, I want to go back to the autopsy. We now know that the state has taken the words of tot mom herself where she blames that awful stench on a dead animal such as a squirrel allegedly being up under her car, blaming an old pizza for the stench coming out of the trunk.
They do tests, forensic tests, on pizza and the remains of a dead animal, a squirrel to be exact, to compare it to the results they got in this car trunk, and it`s not the same.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: They are covering all their bases.
ODOM: Right. Those are tough facts for Casey Anthony to overcome. And she`s got a lot of tough facts to overcome in this case. But so does the state, Nancy. And so that`s why, you know, as Mr. Horowitz says, a plea deal really should be in the works here. Both sides have a very tough battle here.
GRACE: Well, I don`t see the state as having a tough battle. But to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who will be under oath in this case. To Leonard Padilla, what do you make of the state heading out to the jailhouse to take photos of tot mom`s back?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, WILL BE DEPOSED IN TOT MOM CIVIL SUIT: Well, you know, it`s a situation they`re going to throw up in front of the jury. You know how many people have a dead child, for 30 days missing -- actually at the time it was only about three weeks, and you just go out and have a tattoo like that put on your back?
I mean it`s like she had an ugly life before and actually now she`s going to have a beautiful life afterwards. The jury is going to have a lot of thinking to do about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: We believe that allowing the medical to be released publicly, display the report at this time will allow others to dissect, misinterpret and sensationalize the information which will ultimately tarnish Caylee`s memory and cause severe emotional harm to our family.
Our family is still hurting and grieving the loss of Caylee Marie. If the court will allow, Judge, please, give us some peace and show her some dignity by keeping this report sealed. I apologize for my emotion, but this isn`t easy for me to do. It`s all for her, sir. This is for her tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Anthony, approximately how many television appearances have you made regarding this case?
G. ANTHONY: I have no idea. I`ve never kept count.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how many times you`ve appeared on "Larry King"?
G. ANTHONY: Two times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you recently appear on some of the morning television news talk shows?
G. ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am, just the other day, as a matter of fact, we did CBS "Early Show."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that the only one?
G. ANTHONY: The only one that I did, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, to Melanie in Ohio. Hi, Melanie.
MELANIE, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
MELANIE: Nancy, I just want to comment. I wanted to tell you what a beautiful person you are. And please just don`t cry because myself, I`m also very emotional. But my question is, is George Anthony -- is he still seeking professional help?
GRACE: I don`t know. What do you know about that, Mark Williams?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, you know Nancy, earlier this year he was found at a Daytona Beach hotel room after allegedly taking an overdose of prescription drugs.
However, my sources told me that never took place. He allegedly told a nurse at the Halifax Medical Center that he didn`t do it. And if he did it, it was for attention. As you know, medical records in the state of Florida are pretty much sealed.
We understand initially he was getting help. We do not know, Nancy, if he is still getting that help.
GRACE: To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist joining us from New York. I imagine and hope that he is, because dealing with all of this, they have had to go through is probably crushing.
Dr. Taylor, I wanted to ask you as a psychiatrist and a medical doctor what you think the significance is of someone not just putting one piece of duct tape over the child`s mouth which is heinous enough in itself, but multiple pieces of duct tape wrapped around and around and around, almost like it`s a mummy, up over the nose and the mouth. What does that mean?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I mean, in this case certainly means that the killer wasn`t hurried and it was extremely deliberate. But also from a symbolic perspective, just like you`re forgetting, you want to hide and just eliminate this innocent little child. It`s horrifying.
GRACE: To John Lucich, former criminal investigator and president of the High-Tech Crime Network. John, Lucich, what do you think the state needs to do now in light of the autopsy report in preparation for trial?
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": I think the state is doing everything it has been doing. It`s using that autopsy report to firm up the timeline, to show that Casey Anthony had the opportunity, she was not in jail.
She already had the motive. She had the opportunity to kill her child and dump that child there. And they`re following up on that timeline with what they`re doing with this tattoo, also.
GRACE: Is Danny Knight, the owner of Cast Iron Tattoos, still with us, Elizabeth?
Danny, are you there?
DANNY KNIGHT, OWNER, CAST IRON TATTO, TOT MOM GOT "BELLA VITA" TATTOOO AT HIS SHOP (via phone): Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Danny, you said that tot mom Casey Anthony had been in your tattoo parlor many times and you considered her, you know, a quasi-friend and had friendly conversations with her.
Mr. Knight, at any time did she seem upset or distraught that her daughter was gone? And did she ever mention to you that she was looking desperately for her daughter?
KNIGHT: No, not at all. You know? Like I said, as a regular, she had had the baby in here quite a few times. And when I seen her, I asked her where the baby was. And she had told me she was with the nanny and would bring her with her for her appointment on the following Saturday.
GRACE: And you had ever -- you had seen Caylee before, correct?
KNIGHT: Oh, yes.
GRACE: And when you were with her, what did she -- how did she act toward her daughter?
KNIGHT: She was actually a very attentive mother. She was a pleasant girl to be around.
GRACE: With us, Danny Knight of Cast Iron Tattoo.
The state headed to the jailhouse to get a photo of tot mom`s most recent tattoo in sparkly letters across her back saying, "Bella Vita," the good life.
Right now switching gears, sweetheart plea in the works. He brutally beats superstar Rihanna, threatens to kill her, and now his punishment? He`ll have to pick up trash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plea deal has been reached in the felony assault case against Chris Brown. The singer will serve five years of probation, serve 180 days of community service and undergo domestic violence counseling.
Brown did plead guilty to one count of assaulting with the intent of doing bodily injury.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s accused of hitting his then-girlfriend, R&B singer Rihanna. According to police documents he punched her repeatedly and choked her until she almost lost consciousness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not hear Rihanna relive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Ken Baker, E!`s executive news editor in court today, he`s standing by in LA at the courthouse.
Ken, please tell me I`m wrong. Please tell me you don`t brutally beat somebody to where they`re hunched over trying to protect themselves from a near deadly attack and the judge is going to sentence him to picking up trash.
KEN BAKER, E! EXECUTIVE NEWS EDITOR, IN COURT TODAY: I wish I could tell you that. But sadly, that`s exactly what has happened. Judge Patricia Schnegg did rule today that the plea deal was approved. That Chris Brown was basically just going to serve 180 days of community service.
And the equivalent is going to be -- he`s going to actually serve it in Virginia. And she said that it has to be the equivalent of what is served in California which would be either cleaning graffiti off walls or picking up trash. So there were tears in the courtroom, they were coming from Chris Brown`s family next to me. And I have to tell you.
GRACE: What? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, wait, wait. Please stop. Hey, you`re seeing a shot from TMZ.com. Did I hear you say his family is crying because he`s got to pick up trash when he could do five years behind bars and they`re crying because he`s got to pick up a McDonald`s cup off the side of the street?
BAKER: Well, they were tears but they were tears of joy. His family was so happy and so (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: That`s more like it.
BAKER: And I have to say -- yes, I have to say, that there was a lot of shock and surprise and just judging from Twitter and what we`re getting feedback at E! Online, it looks like there`s outrage over this ruling.
GRACE: OK, you know, Tom O`Neil, senior editor, "In Touch Weekly," I hate to make my legal opinions based on Twitter. Can you give me some more facts?
TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR IN TOUCH WEEKLY, COVERING STORY: Well, there is a victory here. We had heard before this plea deal was made that he was not going to cop to a felony charge, so at least he`s done that. And if he doesn`t follow through now on these terms of the deal, the six months, et cetera, then he faces four years in jail.
GRACE: You know what, you know, just save it, O`Neil. Because he faced nearly five years behind bar before he got in front of this judge, the weak sister of the courthouse, apparently. He`s going to have to pick up trash.
We`re taking your calling very quickly to break.
Happy birthday, 82nd birthday to Georgia friend of the show, Lois Baker. Never misses our program.
Happy birthday, beautiful, Lois.
And happy birthday to Massachusetts friends of the shows, twins, Robert and Karen.
Happy birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Straight out to Sue Else, the president of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. Chris Brown is planning to plead guilty to beating this superstar, Rihanna, to a pulp. He`s going to have to pick up trash, Sue. Thoughts?
SUE ELSE, PRESIDENT, NATL. NETWORK TO END DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Disappointed. I feel like, at least, maybe, he`s taking responsibility, and that`s a first step. But I want to make sure that he`s not taking that responsibility just to get out of jail time. And I am disappointed that the consequence is picking up trash.
GRACE: Judge Patricia Schnegg is going to be offered this plea deal. People, she doesn`t have to take it. She can reject the plea deal and assist on harsher punishment to Yvette Cade, a victim of domestic violence. Her ex came to her office, to where she worked, and tried to disfigure her, throwing acid on her.
Yvette Cade, what do you think of this light plea deal? Picking up trash after nearly killing her and threatening to kill her?
YVETTE CADE, VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: I`m appalled that the family was in court, crying tears of joy. I think it`s appalling. I believe that what came into play is that he`s a first-time offender and the judge, possibly, handing down 180 days of community service, five years probation and counseling is just not enough.
I think.
GRACE: Well, Yvette Cade, I can`t agree with you enough. It`s not enough. Judge Patricia Schnegg, what are you thinking?
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Ryan Baumann, 24, Great Mills, Maryland, on a second tour, awarded two army achievement medals, army commendation medal and Iraq campaign medal.
Loved soccer, chorus, photography, bikes with his father. Leaves behind parents Cindy and Robert, stepfather, Gary, sister, Christina, high school sweetheart, fiancee, Lauren. Left her a note to open if he lost her life that said, I love you so much now and forever.
Ryan Baumann, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow 8:00 sharp Eastern, until then, good night, friend.
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