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American Morning
South Carolina Governor Admits Extramarital Affair; Iran Crackdown on Opposition, Seventy Professors Detained; Reality Check on Debate Over Government-Run Health Care Plan; Sex and Politics Becoming Predictable?; Fed Says Recession Is Easing; Reports from Iran's State TV Under Scrutiny
Aired June 25, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome. Glad you're with us on this Thursday, June 25 on this AMERICAN MORNING. Kiran Chetry along with John Roberts. We sort of pick up where we left off yesterday.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. What an incredible story. We left you yesterday morning not knowing where Mark Sanford had been or thought we knew where he was, and found out it was a different story. And now it looks like his entire political life is becoming unglued.
Here's what's on the agenda, the big stories we're breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
The South Carolina governor admits to a long-distance love affair. New details about his mistress in Argentina, their steamy e- mail messages and the response from the governor's wife all ahead.
CHETRY: Our other top story is Iran. The government now cracking down on pro-reform voices with each passing day. It gets harder. Reports this morning that Iranian authorities have detained 70 university professors. This happened apparently right after they met with opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi.
Our Christiane Amanpour has been monitoring the developments. She's going to join us from London.
ROBERTS: And big changes at Facebook to tell you about. Users getting the power to protect their privacy. How the social networking site plans to keep the wrong eyes from seeing your profile.
CHETRY: We begin, though, in South Carolina. Governor Mark Sanford's stunning admission yesterday afternoon that he's been cheating on his wife with a woman in Argentina.
Now this morning, the governor's wife is also talking. While steamy Internet messages emerged between Sanford and his mistress, we're also hearing about his wife's response. There are also some new pictures of the neighborhood where Sanford stayed during his visit this week to Argentina.
Here's CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley with the latest developments on the governor's affair and a Republican Party that is reeling from its second scandal this month.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It turns out the tale of the South Carolina governor gone missing is a cliche.
GOV. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: So the bottom line is this. I -- I've been unfaithful to my wife.
CROWLEY: A collective groan from Republicans as another of their promising new faces on the national scene goes down the tubes.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: I wonder if Sanford thought that he was going to get away with this? They all do it. Could have been our JFK.
CROWLEY: In a rambling, halting, teary news conference, Governor Mark Sanford copped to a string of bad behavior, including a 5,000 mile lie. His hike along the Appalachian Trail was a trek to Buenos Aires, reportedly to this apartment complex for a rendezvous with a long-time friend he says became a lover over the past year.
SANFORD: I have seen her three times since then during that whole sparking thing.
CROWLEY: Mrs. Sanford knew about the sparking thing and said in a written statement she asked her husband to leave two weeks ago, but he'd earned a chance to resurrect the marriage.
SANFORD: So it had been back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And the one thing that you really find is that you absolutely want resolution. And so oddly enough, I spent the last five days of my life crying in Argentina.
CROWLEY: There's more. E-mails between Sanford and his lover obtained by "The State" newspaper in South Carolina. The paper says the authenticity of the e-mails was confirmed by the governor's office. A spokesman for the governor would neither confirm nor deny authenticity to CNN.
"You are my love," she wrote him, "something hard to believe even for myself as it's also a kind of impossible love." "You have a level of sophistication," he wrote her, "that's so fitting with your beauty. I could digress and say you have the ability to give magnificent gentle kisses, or that I love your tan lines."
In Republican circles everywhere, the winds (ph) factor is high. Damage control 101, sympathy and prayers, followed by as much distance as you can find.
With warped speed, the Republican Governors Association accepted Sanford's resignation as head of the RGA. Ten days ago, Senate Republicans were just as quick accepting John Ensign's resignation from his Senate leadership post.
SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: Last year, I had an affair.
CROWLEY: Also new to the national stage, Ensign, like Sanford, was sometimes talked about as a 2012 dark horse.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It seems like a lot of our new leaders seem to be self-emulating.
CROWLEY: Good grief, said a Republican strategist, they're dropping like flies.
Candy Crowley, CNN Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And Governor Sanford insists that he did pay the bill for this week's visit to Buenos Aires, that he paid it. This time last year, South Carolina's Commerce Department, though, did pick up the tab for an economic development trip he took to Argentina, and it's not known whether Sanford saw his mistress during that taxpayer- funded visit.
Well, stay with us. There is some new information still about Governor Sanford that's unfolding and in ten minutes, we're going to be getting the latest.
We talked to Gina Smith. She is the reporter from "The State" newspaper in South Carolina. She broke the story. She was the only one at the airport in Atlanta when his flight came in from Argentina yesterday. She was working on a hunch, and she has some new information for us this morning.
ROBERTS: She said she was quite surprised to be the only one there.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: She's thinking, am I the only one that got these tips or am I on a wild goose chase?
CHETRY: Right.
ROBERTS: Turns out she hit pay dirt there.
Now to the latest developments in Iran. We continue monitoring the situation there with our CNN correspondents around the world and through social networking sites as well where a lot of information is coming out.
Seventy university professors have reportedly being taken into custody in Iran after meeting with opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi. Meantime, authorities continue to use blunt force against protesters in the streets of Tehran. Today's planned day of mourning for victims of the post-election protest has been postponed for a week.
CNN senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is live in London this morning. And, Christiane, we're also just starting to hear reports that opposition leader Mousavi is now under pressure to drop his challenge of the election results. What do you know about that?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I always like to start these broadcasts by saying so much of it is in the realm of what we do not know. But, obviously, what we do know is that there has been a systemic crackdown.
I know that from my sources despite what's going on on Facebook and Twitter and all the other social networking sites that we cannot verify. We know that there is a major crackdown going house to house, cell phones, Internet, web postings and the like, and that obviously there's an enormous amount of pressure on the reformists.
You've already seen the so-called "days of mourning" be postponed. You've seen the protests diminish over the last several days. And Mousavi has been "under control," according to my sources inside Iran for the last week or so. Not formally under house arrest or under arrest, but under control.
And also my sources have told me there's been a systemic roundup of reformists, activists, leaders, whether they be politicians, academics or the like, since the disputed election now over nearly two weeks ago. So this is more of the same and it's designed to stop all this, to get the protesters off the streets and to consolidate the power of the authorities.
ROBERTS: Christiane, you're also learning about a letter that President Obama sent directly to Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei. What you can tell us about that?
AMANPOUR: Well, I reported this yesterday that, yes, Iranian sources confirm that several weeks ago President Obama sent a direct letter to Ayatollah Khamenei, and, in fact, if we were reading the lines of Ayatollah Khamenei's speech on Friday, last Friday at Friday Press, he actually specifically referred to it, in which he said on the one hand they are supporting the protesters, on the other hand, they send us letters asking for ties. Which one should we believe?
Basically, this follows President Obama's stated policy during the campaign and since he's been president of wanting to try a negotiation. And it also follows the advice that he's been given that it has to go through the supreme leader who is in ultimate charge of foreign policy and the like, and not through the president or other government official.
My sources inside Iran are saying that there is a significant group of people who still want this to go through despite the fact that there is a crisis right now, but that they really feel that this is a big issue for Iran. And obviously for the United States, it's a major foreign policy issue. And this is along the lines of President Obama's stated desire to reach out to Iran, but at the moment obviously, as you can see, confusion in the White House about just what to do about Iran.
ROBERTS: Yes, certainly seems to be. Christiane Amanpour from London for us this morning. Christiane, thanks so much. We'll also get another perspective on the situation in Iran today from an American journalist who was recently released from an Iranian jail.
Roxana Saberi just spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper. You're going to see some of that interview in our 8:00 hour this morning and you can catch the entire interview, of course, tonight on "AC 360." That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
CHETRY: Eight minutes past the hour. Other stories new this morning.
Facebook is trying to save you the embarrassment of sharing too much information in those status updates. Well, the site is now rolling out some new privacy controls. For example, it allows you to post a thought on today's weather for everyone to see or share with just a few friends of your choosing your tales of wild parties. Those just being examples.
The Obama administration wants to change federal sentencing guidelines for crimes involving crack cocaine and powdered cocaine. Right now, there is a 100-1 sentencing ratio of crime involving 100 grams of powdered cocaine, gets offenders the same minimum punishment as crimes involving one gram of crack. Critics call that gap racially based. The White House wants it changed to a one-to-one ratio.
Well, it's back to the future for the Oscars. A number of films nominated for Best Picture now goes from five to ten, beginning with next year's ceremony. The last time there were ten Best Picture nominees was back in 1943. That's when "Casablanca" won.
The Academy says it wants to feature more films. Of course, it probably means that the Oscars ceremony will be even longer now, and others also say it gives more movies the opportunity to claim they were Oscar nominated.
Nine minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." It's 12 minutes after the hour and new this morning.
The husbands of two American journalists sentenced to 12 years of hard labor in North Korea say they have spoken to their wives and that they are not doing well. At a San Francisco vigil last night, Laura Ling's husband said his wife is suffering from an ulcer and sounds scared, as well. Euna Lee's husband says she has lost 15 pounds.
Well, talk about an odd couple. The U.S. is teaming up with the government of Somalia to defeat a common enemy, al Qaeda. Administration officials say weapons and ammunition were sent this month to Mogadishu to help the Somali government fight Islamist rebels linked to al Qaeda. The Somali government has made an urgent appeal for foreign troops to save their country from international terrorists. And the Defense Department defending itself against cyber attacks. Its new cyber command center should be fully up and running by October of 2010. It's an effort to protect the Pentagon's computer system from millions of hack attacks every day. The White House says many of those attacks are coming from China.
CHETRY: And we get more now on South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford's long-distance love affair and the fallout from his tearful confession. The governor admitted yesterday that he cheated on his wife, that he misled his staff, and essentially left South Carolina without a leader while he was off with his mistress in Argentina.
Joining me now is Gina Smith. She's a political reporter for "The State" newspaper. She broke the story on our air yesterday.
Gina, you were the one that basically was waiting, the only reporter waiting there at the airport in Atlanta when he got back. He spoke to you, and you told me yesterday on our air that when you started questioning him a little bit more about whether or not he was alone in Argentina, he told you, I have a feeling I know where you're going with this and he stopped the interview. Fast forward 24 hours from right now. What's going on in your mind about what happened?
GINA SMITH, REPORTER, "THE STATE": Yes, definitely since the details have come out, now that we know he was not alone in Argentina, that he was with a woman.
Shortly a few hours after I spoke to him at the airport, he did have a press conference where he confessed that he had been unfaithful to his wife. And I think right now it's safe to say that people in South Carolina are just really shocked, really amazed by this news. That's true of lawmakers, as well. Everyone is just trying to figure out where we go from here and expressing a lot of sorrow over the situation and wishing the best to the governor's wife and family.
CHETRY: All right. And I want to start with some of the e-mails that your paper obtained. This is from Governor Sanford's personal e- mail account to the woman known as Maria. He writes, "You are my love, something hard to believe even for myself. It's also a kind of impossible love. How in the world this lightning strike snuck up on us, I'm still not quite sure."
You know, he calls the situation impossible, obviously indicating this personal turmoil that's going on inside of him and obviously the struggles inside and outside of his marriage. Can he still properly govern the state, in your opinion?
SMITH: You know, I hate to speculate on something like that. I think today, in the next few days, we'll hear arguments for and against that. I think we will quickly see a move from everyone expressing sorrow over the situation to some lawmakers moving for the governor's impeachment. And I'm sure there will be impassioned arguments on both sides that he is still fit and those who say, hey, you know, being gone for seven days, the revelation of this affair is proof that he's not fit for office any longer. We'll have to wait and see how that plays out. CHETRY: Right. Well, I mean, as this, you know, personal drama is unfolding and you know, you feel so bad for the family. You feel bad for those four boys and, you know, for his wife. And you know, he was tearful yesterday. I mean, there was sympathy to be had for him, too, even though, you know, he did this, he got himself into this mess.
But meanwhile, the larger point, South Carolina. This is a state struggling with 12.1 percent unemployment. You got a lot of problems there. And, you know, he's taking so much heat from his political rivals. I mean, you hear people saying, state senators saying lies, lies, lies, that's all we're getting from him.
We had John Lynn, one of the state senators saying that he's never seen anybody act in on a more dishonest, secretive, bizarre manner. I mean, there's a lot crashing in in a state that needs help right now. What is the average South Carolinian saying about whether or not this makes sense?
SMITH: Like I said, the average South Carolinian is really shocked. You know, we have had our fair shares. We've teetered between second and third highest unemployment rate in the nation. Our legislative session that just wrapped up was really dominated over whether the governor would accept $700 million in federal stimulus money to backfill school districts budgets, to keep prisons operational, to help outlaw enforcement.
It's been a rough several months for South Carolina. We've been hit really hard by the down economy. And to have this on top of it, it's -- just some people do feel it's a distraction from the real issues that the state needs to be concentrating on.
CHETRY: Right. And I just have to ask you real quick before we go. I mean, there are some who say why did your newspaper release these? I know you guys had these for months, right? And there was some talk of just trying to figure out whether or not you could verify them, but there they're so personal and they really -- I mean, they're hard to read.
SMITH: Right.
CHETRY: Why did you guys decide to release them?
SMITH: Right. I think we wanted to -- well, first, you know, after the governor admitted to the affair yesterday, it didn't seem like we had anything really top secret anymore, nothing, you know, that would really shock anyone. And I think it lets people see a little bit about what the relationship was like between the two of them, the difficulties of it. There is that, you know, few sentences that again and again media outlets are picking up on as being sort of saucy. But, you know, 98 percent of them are two people who talk about being in love, realizing it's a hopeless situation.
CHETRY: Right. And are you guys releasing more today?
SMITH: Yes. Today, if you go to thestate.com, our Web site, we're releasing I think the last two e-mails that we have.
CHETRY: Gina Smith, reporter for "The State," thanks so much for joining us this morning.
SMITH: Thank you.
CHETRY: Eighteen minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." President Obama taking his pitch for health care reform to prime time. He hosted a White House town hall style event last night that was broadcast on ABC. The president said he understands fears that a system overhaul will leave some Americans without the medical care they need.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are concerned. They know that they're living with the devil, but the devil they know they think may be better than the devil they don't. And that's understandable.
Look, every time we've made progress in this country on health care, there's been a vigorous debate. These things are always going to be tough politically. Let me tell you, though, that we actually do know in a lot of instances what works and what doesn't. What's lacking is not knowledge, we've been debating this stuff for decades. What's lacking is political will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And one of the real points of contention in the Obama plan is a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers. Democrats say it's the best way to drive health care costs down. But Republicans oppose it and they have been repeating one statistic in particular to make their argument.
Our Dana Bash has got a reality check on that this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the warring health care debate, this is a Republican mantra.
SEN. JON KYL (R), MINORITY WHIP: The government-run insurance company would displace 119 million happily insured Americans.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: A hundred nineteen million Americans could lose the private coverage they have.
BASH: From the Senate floor to this conservative TV ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM CONSERVATIVES FOR PATIENTS' RIGHTS)
NARRATOR: One hundred nineteen million off their current insurance coverage, leaving no choices in health insurance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That's the rhetoric, but what's the reality? To try to get the answer, we went to the source. John Sheils of The Lewin Group authored the study Republicans are touting.
(on camera): When you hear 119 million people will lose their private insurance, is that accurate?
JOHN SHEILS, THE LEWIN GROUP: Well, I don't think you should think of it that way. No one is going to lose their private insurance. We think that 119 million people will voluntarily move to the public plan.
BASH (voice-over): So his findings show Republicans are only telling half the story. Republicans are right that if a government- run insurance plan could charge consumers less by paying hospitals and doctors lower Medicare rates, private insurers would lose 119 million people. But what Republicans are not saying is that 131 million people would get government sponsored insurance, including 28 million currently uninsured.
SHEILS: But the public plan is going to have very low premiums, premiums so low that 119 million people will make the choice because of the public plan.
BASH: But another reality check. A public plan with hard-to- compete low rates is the most extreme possibility. House Democrats are considering something close, but a leading Senate public insurance option would result in just 10 million to 12 million people leaving private insurance, according to Sheils' data.
Sheils knows both sides, used his study to make political arguments, but does agree with one central Republican point. Government competition could crush some private insurers.
SHEILS: If you give the government such a strong price advantage in a competitive situation, very few people are going to stay with the private coverage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: So Sheils says Democrats also have a point when they say private insurers with the best prices and quality should survive.
Now, we should point out that The Lewin Group, which conducted the study is now owned by United Health Care which is a private insurance company, but Sheils insists he has total editorial control and autonomy over his health care study -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Dana Bash for us this morning. Dana, thanks so much.
CHETRY: So back to the Governor Sanford saga that's unfolding. You know, unfortunately, we've been hearing more and more about these various personal affairs of politicians. ROBERTS: Certainly the second high profile one in as many weeks, which just leads you to think that maybe it's an epidemic, but probably not.
CHETRY: Or are we just hear about it more. What is going on? Our Carol Costello has an interesting take. She's going to join us right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: We're back with the "Most News in the Morning." South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford joining a growing list of high powered politicians who are seemingly powerless against temptation.
CHETRY: Yes. When Sanford admitted he was with his mistress in Brazil this week and not hiking in the Appalachian Trail as he originally said or at least his staffers had originally said, he became the second politician in just over a week to confess to an extramarital affair.
Our Carol Costello is live in Washington with more. What the heck is going on here, Carol?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Something in the water? I don't know. But for some people watching this press conference, it was heart-wrenching to see Governor Mark Sanford admit to this affair. Others, many others, were not surprised. SOPFP, standard operating procedure for a politician. In other words, what else is new?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Maybe America cynicism about politicians and affairs took permanent root on January 26th, 1998.
BILL CLINTON, 41ST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
COSTELLO: But Clinton was lying, and his public humiliation wasn't enough to prevent other politicians from cheating, even though many were appalled. Mark Sanford was a congressman in 1999.
THEN-REP. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of democratic government, representative government, because it undermines trust.
COSTELLO: Fast forward to 2009. That same guy, a governor, now telling the country he wasn't really hiking the Appalachian Trail. He was exercising something else in Argentina. And, yes, he uttered that old, tired line.
GOV. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Let me first apologize to my wife, Jenny.
ELIOT SPITZER (D), FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: I've begun to atone for my private failings with my wife, Silda.
SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: Especially my wife. I'm truly sorry.
JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ask her for her forgiveness.
COSTELLO: The Log Cabin Republicans, who've long fought politicians' anti-gay marriage stance say, and you think gays are destroying the sanctity of marriage?
CHARLES MORAN, LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: I find it hard to talk -- to hear somebody like Governor Sanford say to me as a gay man your -- you know, the relationship that you might want to engage in with another man that you love is going to be less equal or not as valid as a love between I have with my wife. And then when he sees and goes, to see what he does with his wife?
COSTELLO: Others are tired of the hypocrisy, too. And cynicism aside, they're angry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are they having affairs? And aren't they supposed to be working?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has stopped to be stopped. They're sending out a message to the youth of America that it's OK to have an affair.
COSTELLO: William Donahue of the Catholic League put it this way.
WILLIAM DONAHUE, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: If you're a proponent of traditional values, we don't expect you to be perfect. But to carry on an affair for how long, month after month after month and then you disappear? I mean, this is born of arrogance and is born of narcissism and people like me are fed up and I hope they show him the gate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Think people are a little angry about this? Sanford is resigning his post as chairman of the Republican Governors Association, but there is no sign he's stepping down as governor. And, yes, he is working to repair his marriage. His wife sent out a statement that in part reads, "I remain willing to forgive Mark completely for his indiscretions and to welcome him back in time if he continues to work toward reconciliation with a true spirit of humility and repentance."
CHETRY: And there's a lot going on in that statement, as well. Carol, thanks so much.
And by the way, for more on Carol's public affairs story, you can head to our blog, CNN.com/amFIX. We want to know what you think about the situation.
Also, it's just half past the hour now and we have more top stories for you in Iran. An opposition Web site says that 70 college professors were detained after meeting with Mir Hossein Mousavi. It's part of the widening crackdown that's been happening now by Iranian authorities on the opposition.
The Web site also says that Mousavi is being pressured to withdraw his demand for the cancellation of Iran's presidential election. In just a moment, John is going to be speaking with author's Robin Wright and Reza Aslan about the situation in Iran.
North Korea threatening a fire shower of nuclear retaliation over South Korea. The communist regime responding to a pledge by the U.S. to defend South Korea with nuclear weapons if necessary.
And more relief for drivers. Gas prices dropping for the fourth day in a row. This morning, according to AAA, the price fell about a penny to $2.67 a gallon on average nationwide. Analysts say that you should start noticing it at the pump any day now.
John?
ROBERTS: Outnumbered and overwhelmed, protesters in Iran now fleeing the full might of the hardline regime. Riot police beating demonstrators with batons, spraying tear gas in clashes outside Tehran's parliament on Wednesday. The government is apparently determined to crush the opposition.
Joining us to discuss the consequences this morning, two experts on Iran -- Robin Wright, author of "Dreams and Shadows," and Reza Aslan, just back from Tehran. He's the author of "How to Win a Cosmic War."
So this is entering a new phase, the intensity of this crackdown. Do you think it is going to crush or embolden the opposition, Reza?
REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR, "HOW TO WIN A COSMIC WAR": I guess that remains to be seen. It seems as though the plan of the regime is to basically cut off this movement at its top, to get rid of all of the leaders, get rid of anybody who can pose any kind of leadership role even if they're not directly engaged with the protest movement to begin with.
It remains to be seen whether that's going to work because this is a protest that has, for the most part of the last week and a half, been very spontaneous. It's been going from the ground up. But the government has had even more success in cutting off these protesters from their access to Twitter and Facebook. I've been getting a shorter and shorter stream of information from Iran over the last couple of days.
ROBERTS: And Robin, we hear reports of people who are out there in the streets last week with their cell phone cameras taking video, now deleting all of those pictures off of the cell phone for fear of being caught with them.
ROBIN WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "DREAMS AND SHADOWS": And the government coming in, anytime they see a small pocket of people, taking away any devices they have, using it as evidence against them and making it impossible for them to record what's happening on the ground. We've reached a point, a real transition, where the theocracy has moved into a "Thugacracy."
And they're using their security forces which in many ways may be effective short term, but long term it's serving to polarize and alienate Iranians, even more people who have not been, you know, as critical, not -- had sat on the fence, may not even have voted, are being increasingly angered by what looks like the imposition of martial law.
ROBERTS: So then what do you think the result of that will be?
WRIGHT: Well, look, this is -- we all talk about it in metaphors of baseball games, the first inning of nine, or a chess game, the first move of a long game. This has been coming for a century in a sequence of events. And it's clear now that there's no going back.
ROBERTS: You know, we saw in Tiananmen Square in 1989, this uprising put down and it never really resurfaced to the degree it did in 1989, but since then even if China still has a terrible human rights record, it has made some moves to open up a little bit. Do you think that might be the pattern that's following Iran?
ASLAN: Well, I do think that no matter what happens out of this crisis, that Iran is going to be different. It's going to be a changed country. But I do think that it could just as easily become more militaristic and even more isolationist as it could become more democratic and more accommodationist.
Right now, the two sides of this argument are pretty well polarized with the Revolutionary Guard and some of the hardcore revolutionaries on one side and the reformists and the pragmatists on the other.
It all depends what happens with the clerics right now. The clerics have been kind of teetering in the middle right now. Some of them have been putting their support to the reformers, some of them are more loyal to the regime. But in a strange way, this is an argument that might actually get resolved in the mosques and sort of the back rooms of the seminaries and homes.
ROBERTS: You know, one of those clerics who has been throwing his weight behind the reform movement is the Ayatollah Montazeri, who warned that continued suppression of the protest could destabilize the regime. He wrote, quote, if Iranians cannot talk about their legitimate rights at peaceful gatherings and are instead suppressed, complexities will build up which could possibly uproot the foundations of the government, no matter how powerful."
That's very much what you were saying, Robin. He's a dissident cleric, of course, but do you think he represents as growing faction in Iran?
WRIGHT: Well, he was interesting enough appointed as the supreme leader by the Revolutionary founder and then fired by him because he had criticized the regime for its excesses and its injustice in the late 1980s. He has since been the figure head for the dissident movement. But he also said something very important. He warned the security forces of Iran not to engage or follow orders that might lead them eventually to be condemned in the eyes of God.
And I think one of the things -- it plays out, as Reza says, in part among the clergy, but the pivotal issue is what happens. Will all the security forces follow the regime? And there are many indications that some of the police and even some of the Revolutionary Guards, who are just rank and file officers, they're not ideologues, are they're concerned about the kinds of things they're being asked to do against their own countrymen. And that's over a long period of time where you see the regime potentially cracking.
ROBERTS: And Reza, quickly, after being there on the ground witnessing for yourself, where do you think this is going in the next couple of weeks?
ASLAN: Which I have to say, no, I was not on the ground. I did not just return from Tehran.
ROBERTS: Oh, I'm sorry.
ASLAN: But I do have a number of very close friends and family members who have been giving me a steady stream of information from there. And I have to tell you, the thing that's sort of most worrying is that over the last couple of days, that stream of information has more or less slowed to a trickle.
So I'm just as handicapped as everybody else right now. I don't know if this will pick up again. But, as Robin said, the regime seems to have come up with a low-tech solution to their high-tech problem. Instead of trying to deal with, you know, these blogs and proxy servers, just take away the equipment and that seems like what they're doing. If you got a cell phone, if you got any kind of recording technology on you, even if you're just walking along the street minding your own business, it's being confiscated.
ROBERTS: All right. Reza Aslan and Robin Wright, thanks for being with us this morning. Really appreciate it.
So, it's 37 minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Hi. Oh, that was so cute. See what happens. They were supposed to come to me, but then the song said, don't you look so beautiful. So they took you. They made a last-minute decision. And even with Stephanie, because you look beautiful this morning as well.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. I don't think I was in the shot.
ROBERTS: Maybe they were talking about Petey (ph).
ELAM: Yes. I think it was Petey (ph).
CHETRY: I'm sure they were talking about Petey (ph). Please, can somebody get a shot? There's no one more beautiful than Petey (ph). Wait, please.
There you go.
ELAM: There's no one sweeter than Petey (ph), either.
CHETRY: I know. He's a popular guy here on the show.
ROBERTS: Petey (ph) can say anything and get away with it.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: Exactly. You know, little kids, very, very old people and Petey (ph) get away with anything.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, we want to know what the Fed was saying yesterday. Of course, all ears were on that meeting. Signs of hope, perhaps?
CHETRY: Signs of hope, perhaps, on the economy?
ELAM: Signs of hope. That's what they're saying. And a lot of people thinking, you know, they had no choice but to say this because everyone who is part of the Fed or Federal Reserve has been saying this in meetings for a few weeks now, even saying this that we've seen signs that the market is getting better. We've seen some economic data that's starting to look better.
So the Fed coming out saying that they do see signs of hope, but let's take a quick bullet points of what they're saying.
It's not all roses around here. No doubt the economy is still weak. The economy, though, is shrinking at a slower pace. So that's good side of that. They say consumer spending is starting to stabilize. And also when you take a look at inventories for businesses, they're now more in line with demand. So that's helping out as well. But businesses continue to cut jobs and also are cutting back on their spending as well. So they want to see that get better before they can really say things are a lot better. They also say that inflation is not too much of a concern.
Yesterday, we didn't see the markets really rally. In fact, the Dow was down, the other two major indices up. But some of that may have to do with the "Oracle of Omaha." In fact, our own Susan Lisovicz got a chance to chat with Warren Buffett yesterday to get his take on where the economy stands right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN BUFFETT, CEO, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY: There's no uptick yet. There will be. And I want to assure everybody that. This country always comes back. I mean, if we go -- you know, we had a civil war, we had the Great Depression, we've had Pearl Harbor, we got a lot of unpleasant surprises. But we always overcome them and we will this. But we haven't yet and it doesn't look to me like it's imminent. It will happen. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ELAM: So when you listen to the "Oracle of Omaha," you can see that when he speaks, a lot of people listen. He still says we have a way to go here.
Kiran?
CHETRY: You know, it's funny when the good news is that that there's not as much bad news, right?
ELAM: Yes. The good things is things aren't as bad. Yes, that's where we are right now.
ROBERTS: Hopefully, in the absence of bad news will soon turn into an abundance of good news. It could be, one of these days.
ELAM: Yes, it will.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Steph.
Forty-two and a half minutes now after the hour.
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ROBERTS: It's a beautiful weather inside the studio here this morning at 45 minutes after the hour. But what about out there in the great wide open? Our Reynolds Wolf at the weather center in Atlanta. He's checking all the extreme weather today.
What do we got, Reynolds?
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: All right, Reynolds. Thanks so much.
Do you have to say?
CHETRY: No, it's just -- you're a pro with that magic wall, Reynolds. I know, you flip it go around and...
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: He told me everything I know. He taught me everything. He inspires me, he drives me, and yes, he gives me the magic wall.
CHETRY: That's how we all feel. No, but seriously, Reynolds, you said that it's cool here. I would say swampy.
WOLF: Yes.
CHETRY: Because it's not pleasant right now. It called sinus headache weather. That's what I call it.
(CROSSTALK)
WOLF: We could definitely use it in Georgia. Things have been relatively dry here when we get out. We certainly had a rough history recently with the droughts. The last thing we need is a dry spell. So we could use that precipitation.
ROBERTS: I was thinking of another word that ends with "y" to describe the weather here, but I've been having trouble with language lately.
CHETRY: Does it start with an "s" and end with a "y"?
ROBERTS: No. No.
CHETRY: Swampy, steamy.
ROBERTS: So, hey, Richard Branson, right?
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: Wouldn't you like to have his life?
CHETRY: I know you would. Flying around in the planes, hanging out.
ROBERTS: Yes, for a week even. Well, his latest adventure, he hopes to be in space by the end of next year. So, Richard Branson will tell us more about it, coming right up. Stay with us.
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ROBERTS: Music mogul Richard Branson launched Virgin Atlantic Airways 25 years ago with a second hand 747 and ticket counters that were set up in record stores. A quarter of a century later, Virgin is one of the most successful airlines flying. The record stores? Not so much, unfortunately. Now Branson is an avid adventurer and entrepreneur and he's setting his sights on new challenges -- space travel and climate change.
I sat down yesterday with Sir Richard and asked him about the new carbon war room that he's launching and how thinks it can help solve the problem of climate change.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD BRANSON, FOUNDER, VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS: It's a group of entrepreneurs who got together and a group of volunteers and to -- you know, carbon is the enemy. If it's this biggest enemy that some people believe, you know, maybe worse than the First and Second World Wars put together. You need a war room so we set up a war room to look at every single way of beating carbon.
ROBERTS: There's no shortage of ideas, but what about concrete action?
BRANSON: We invest, put profits from our airline industry into, you know, trying to come up with clean fuels. You know, hopefully within five years or all Virgin Atlantic planes will be flying on fuels, which will be emitting no carbons. ROBERTS: So 25 years, the airline is still doing well. Your profits went up, I think, $53 million last year. At the same time your main competitor British Airways lost about $350 million. So many airlines in this country are doing so poorly, are in bankruptcy or just barely holding on or losing boat loads of money.
How do you do it?
BRANSON: We have a fantastic team of people at Virgin Atlantic. They've created a great airline. And also I think, you know, the team of people here in America with Virgin America also created a fantastic domestic airline. And I think if you can create the best in any field, generally speaking, people will go out of their way to, you know, to travel with you.
ROBERTS: You've been very vocal about this idea that if British Airways were to fail, you don't think the British government should step in and save it. It is sort of the flag carrier that you gave. It's not government owned. You would -- you've also said absorb those slots, pick up the business.
Do you want BA to fail?
BRANSON: British Airways is a private company. It has fought hard to put aside a business over the years. I suspect that we wouldn't weep too many tears if they went under.
But what I can promise the traveling public is that if they do die, we will step into their shoes.
ROBERTS: You're also setting your sights a little higher than where airlines fly. We'll just open up the first space port and last cruise is New Mexico. You're hoping by the end of next year to be able to run suborbital commercial flights, $200,000 a pop for a two hour ride.
Is there a business based there to support that?
BRANSON: I think so. I mean, I think there are hundreds of thousands of people around the world who would love to become astronauts, who would love to be able to go to space. And, you know, New Mexico got the vision to build a space port. You know, it's spending half a billion dollars in building a spectacular space port right in the middle of the desert there.
ROBERTS: Do you think private industry could play a role in not only giving people rides into suborbital space, but, you know, maybe going to the moon, maybe going to Mars?
BRANSON: No. I think, you know, the next step for Virgin Galactic will be to put satellites into space at a fraction of the price that they currently go into space, and that's something which we're very close to being able to do.
We're also looking at, you know, with Virgin Atlantic Hatton of intercontinental flights where, you know, hopefully, New York to Australia in maybe an hour, an hour and a half, where we just literally pop you out of the earth's atmosphere and pop you back down again. And you'd be going at, you know, thousands of miles an hour.
ROBERTS: You know, it's also been somewhat of a tearful irony for you, too, that your fortune was built on the record business. And you just recently closed the last two Virgin Megastores in the United States.
Did you shed a tear when they closed?
BRANSON: Of course I shed a tear. I mean, but sadly nothing is forever in life. And the advent of the Apple, the iPod, the Internet, it's really the end of the record shop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: He wants to go into space, on his spaceship, too, hopefully by the end of next year.
I said to him, well, you've had the opportunity to go into the space before. I mean, the space station has been up there, why didn't you take a ride?
He said, Mikhail Gorbachev offered him a ride up into space. And it sends back when the space station was in operation she says. But when he told me how much it was going to cost, he says, I just couldn't imagine spending that obscene amount of money on doing it.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: See that, that is how you turn into a billionaire by being frugal in the first place, right?
ROBERTS: There's that one guy, I forget his name, though, but he's been up to the space station a couple times. Twenty million dollars a pop. You would think for a guy like Branson, $20 million is walking around money, right? But as you said, that's how he became a billionaire.
CHETRY: Exactly. But he's a down-to-earth guy. I mean, when he's been here as well, so friendly, so willing to, you know, share his personal experiences.
ROBERTS: He had a huge party for the Virgin 25th anniversary, as well, and somehow our invitations got lost in the mail.
CHETRY: Not fair.
ROBERTS: Fifty-five minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
The government in Iran is trying to keep a lid on the violent crackdown, but through the Internet and newscasts like this, the world is seeing what's happening. But as our Octavia Nasr reports, Iran's state TV is showing a very different version of events.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My son and I were carrying grenades in our bags. My son was very keen to show his power, to tell the world that he was against his country and his countrymen.
OCTAVIA NASR, SENIOR EDITOR, ARAB AFFAIRS (voice-over): According to Iran's government-funded Press TV, this is a confession of an Iranian woman who was allegedly arrested during street protests. She says her actions were, quote, "influenced by foreign media."
Blurring their faces, Press TV.
This is another so-called confession.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was influenced by Voice of America, Persian TV, and BBC. They used to blame the government forces for the violence. So, I was very interested to see what was going on. And, when I attended the rallies, I realized that it was the protesters who attacked public property, soldiers, and even other people.
NASR: That's just a sampling of the alleged confessions being aired on state TV, which has, all along, insisted that the situation has been under control and that the protests are illegal and will be dealt with as such.
Iranian TV also reports on what it calls a conspiracy, linking foreign countries to the ongoing anti-government demonstrations across Iran. According to this anchorwoman, it was all planned in this building.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The documents found at the building reportedly prove that certain foreign countries and media fanned the flames of the recent riots.
NASR: Within newscasts, a constant reminder that the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has ordered that, quote, "All must obey the law."
State TV also reporting that Iran's judiciary has formed a tribunal to look at the files of those arrested.
As for the punishment...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iran's first deputy judiciary chief says the proceedings aim to teach the rioters a lesson.
NASR (on camera): What that lesson will be is anybody's guess. And, of course, there are many questions surrounding the so-called confessions and what prompted them.
Octavia Nasr, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And welcome once again. It is Thursday, the 25th of June. 7:00 a.m. here in New York. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.
