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Campbell Brown
Remembering Michael Jackson
Aired June 29, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: (voice-over): Tonight: the must-see pictures, Michael Jackson's last superstar moments hours before he died.
Here are the questions we want answered. Is this the way the world will remember him?
Plus, what really killed Michael Jackson? His doctor gives his side.
EDWARD CHERNOFF, ATTORNEY FOR DR. CONRAD MURRAY: We don't know why he died.
BROWN: A look at what happened inside the mansion in the minutes leading up to Jackson's death.
And what about the children? Today, Jackson's mother, Katherine, is named temporary guardian, while his father gives a bizarre news conference.
JOE JACKSON, FATHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I established a record company with Marshall.
BROWN: Plus, is there a new Jackson album already ready to roll? More about the video and music recorded during his final rehearsal.
And Janet Jackson's tribute to her brother.
JANET JACKSON, MUSICIAN: To you, Michael is an icon. To us, Michael is family. And he will forever live in all of our hearts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
BROWN: Hi, everybody.
We are covering every angle of Michael Jackson's story tonight -- a lot to tell you about. We begin with the "Mash-Up." It is, of course, our look at all of today's developments, plus some stories you may have missed today. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
Many unanswered questions remain about Michael Jackson's death. But, tonight, new details are emerging about the final days and the final minutes of his life. Just hours ago, investigators found drugs in the house where the pop star passed away, one thing abundantly clear -- this is going to be a long investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": Investigators from the Los Angeles County Coroner's went to his rented mansion today. They left with two large plastic bags containing undisclosed medications as they looked for clues in the pop star's death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he felt a pulse and administered CPR. But he did it in the bed. You know, CPR is supposed to be done on a hard surface.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, Joe Jackson said he will wait for results of their private autopsy before burying his son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A California judge has just approved Jackson's mother's request for temporary custody of his three children.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That means they're living under the same roof as Jackson's father, Joe, whom the late singer claimed beat him as a child.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Michael Jackson's mother said that, as far as she knew, Michael Jackson had no will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But others say there is a will; it just hasn't come out yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The will is in a safe. The lawyer who has the will was out of town.
JOE JACKSON: I'm a pretty strong guy, but at least -- at least I suffer, I cry on the inside. A lot of people will see tears coming on the outside down the face. Not me. I take it in here. But I'm strong.
JANET JACKSON: I would just like to say that, to you, Michael is an icon. To us, Michael is family. And he will forever live in all of our hearts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Also made public today, pictures of one of the last times Michael Jackson ever performed on stage. Take a look at this. Here he is. This is the Staples Center in Los Angeles, two days, just two days before he die. He was rehearsing for his upcoming concert tour. There are reportedly video and audio recordings of this session that the promotion company, AEG, may be planning to release as an album and a DVD.
AEG so far not commenting. And this may just be the beginning of the profit-making and videos of Michael Jackson, the Associated Press reporting tonight that Jackson recorded an elaborate music video two weeks before he died. Clearly, there are going to be a lot of people lining up to make money off the late singer. And we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show.
We're also learning tonight no date has yet been set for Jackson's funeral. But his father, Joe Jackson, says the funeral will be public and it will be big. It will have to be. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, again, much more on the investigation on the Jackson family, how they are doing, and also new details of what happened inside the mansion the day that Michael Jackson died.
The other big headline, today, though, big time for a big cheater, Bernard Madoff sentenced to 150 years behind bars. Today, the mastermind of the world's largest Ponzi scheme heard his sentence from the judge and a little payback from his victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bernie Madoff sentenced to the full amount, 150 years in prison. He is 71 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred and fifty years is what the prosecutors said was uniquely an extraordinary situation. For this extraordinary situation, he said that those 150 years, the maximum allowed by law, was necessary, not just to punish Bernie Madoff, but also as a means of deterring others from committing white-collar crimes like this.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: When he did give that sentence, the victims in the courtroom did erupt in applause.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: There was applause? We haven't heard that yet. There was applause in the courtroom. Did the judge then tell people to quiet down or did he let them have their moment there in court?
A. CHERNOFF: Not at all. Not at all. And, in fact, there was a lot of hugging as well among the victims. They were very emotional. Some of them did break down in tears.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I expected the judge to actually give him a very harsh sentence to make him an example. But I don't have satisfaction, because the victims have no reparation yet.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We have a statement now from Bernie Madoff's wife. Here's part of what she said -- quote -- "Like everyone else, I feel betrayed and confused. The man who committed this horrible fraud is not the man whom I have known for all these years."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A judge took away Ruth Madoff's homes and most of her money, leaving her with a mere $2.5 million. There are reports she can't find a new place to live. No one will rent her an apartment. Bernie Madoff will end up in a medium-security federal prison.
To Baghdad now, where Tuesday is the deadline for U.S. troops to pull out of Iraqi cities. Midnight has already come in Baghdad. And in the minutes before the deadline, people were dancing and singing in the streets.
CNN's Michael Ware is there. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With just hours to go to the official handover of control of this war from the Americans to the Iraqis, this is the mood in Baghdad.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Some U.S. troops will stay in cities to train and advise. But most will stay in bases outside of the cities -- almost all U.S. troops set to leave Iraq by the end of 2011.
And that is the "Mash-Up."
Tonight's big question, what really killed Michael Jackson? There have been so many questions about his private doctor, who was the last person to see him alive. Tonight, his lawyer is our newsmaker. And he's making a bold claim about the cause of death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
E. CHERNOFF: Yes, there are no narcotics. Campbell, I can't go into what we believe that Michael Jackson had consumed that night, had ingested that night, because we have an agreement with LAPD not to go into that until toxicology comes back. But I believe, when toxicology comes back, you're not going to find narcotics.
BROWN: You're basically ruling out an overdose, at least from what you know and from what your client knows, correct?
E. CHERNOFF: Yes. From what we know, that -- I'm ruling out an overdose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Welcome back.
So many of the questions about Michael Jackson's death can only be answered by the doctor who was treating him during the last minutes of his life, Dr. Conrad Murray. He was a cardiologist -- is a cardiologist. Murray met for several hours this weekend with detectives from the L.A. Police Department.
And his legal team insists he has done nothing wrong. Dr. Murray's attorney, Ed Chernoff, tells us more. He is tonight's newsmaker. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: There have been so many questions about what happened. So, let me ask you to start by just giving us a timeline of the moments leading up to Michael Jackson's death. What was happening with your client?
E. CHERNOFF: OK.
Well, some time before noon, Dr. Murray walked in to Michael Jackson's bedroom and saw that he wasn't breathing. He went over to him to make sure that that was the case, that he wasn't breathing. It was an emergency situation to him, because he didn't expect that to occur.
Of course, he tried to feel for a pulse. He felt a very weak pulse, felt that the body was warm, and then immediately started CPR on Michael Jackson to try to revive him.
BROWN: One of the basic questions has been about the CPR. Basic CPR, you generally do it on a hard surface like the floor. Let's listen just for a moment to a little bit of that 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Is he on the floor? Where is he at right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on the bed sir. He's on the bed.
911 OPERATOR: OK, let's get him on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: OK, let's get him down to the floor. I'm going to help you with CPR right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: So, why was Dr. Murray doing CPR on the bed?
E. CHERNOFF: He was doing CPR on the bed because the situation demanded it when he -- at the time.
He was -- Michael Jackson was in bed, where he was presumably sleeping. The doctor felt it was important to immediately start administering CPR. Michael Jackson's a very -- I don't want to say frail, but a very, very small, thin, man.
Dr. Murray is a large man, a very -- very tall. He put his hand underneath Michael Jackson's back to brace it and held him there and compressed with his other hand. He checked to make sure that there was compression and that blood was flowing. And it was. And that's how he began the CPR process.
BROWN: It was reported it took more than 20 minutes from the time that Dr. Murray found Jackson to the time that that 911 call was made. Why? What took so long?
E. CHERNOFF: Right.
You know, and Dr. Murray performed CPR for -- for all of those 25 minutes or so, until emergency personnel came. In the Jackson house, in Michael Jackson's room, there is no phone. There's no land line, so to speak.
And so there's no way to call 911 and have an automated system determine where the call's coming from. Dr. Murray had his cell phone. But he did not know the precise address of Michael Jackson's home. He knew how to get there. He generally knew what road it was on, but he didn't know the precise address.
And so he couldn't use the cell phone. He called security from his cell phone while administering CPR. And there was no answer. He continued to administer CPR, trying to revive Michael Jackson. And, at some point, he had to run downstairs and yell for help, yelling for help, finally locating the chef. And the chef got security up to the room and then the 911 call was made.
BROWN: Now, you have said in a couple of interviews now that Mr. Murray never prescribed or administered Demerol or OxyContin, these very potent narcotics. Did he prescribe any other narcotics?
E. CHERNOFF: There -- I will say this.
What he prescribed during the two-month period of time that he was with Michael Jackson as his private physician was prescribed specifically for medical conditions or medical complaints, and -- and was prescribed appropriately, indicated for those complaints. And it...
BROWN: So -- so, just to be clear, are you talking about narcotics?
E. CHERNOFF: Yes, there are no narcotics.
Campbell, I can't go into what we believe that Michael Jackson had consumed that night, had ingested that night, because we have an agreement with LAPD not to go into that until toxicology comes back.
But I believe, when toxicology comes back, you're not going to find narcotics.
BROWN: In his system at all?
E. CHERNOFF: No. We -- we -- there's nothing that -- that occurred that night or that morning that would have led Dr. Murray to believe that Michael Jackson would suffer any heart failure or respiratory failure.
And if there is Demerol, if there is OxyContin in his system -- I'm not sure where that rumor comes from, frankly -- but...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So, you're basically -- just to be clear here, just -- you're basically ruling out an overdose, at least from what you know and from what your client knows, correct?
E. CHERNOFF: Yes. From what we know, that -- I'm ruling out an overdose, from what we know.
We know only what we saw administered -- or what Dr. Murray administered, if anything, to Michael Jackson and what Michael Jackson might have taken. It was not sufficient to cause heart attack. It was not sufficient to cause failure, heart failure or respiratory failure.
BROWN: So, is it possible he could have been taking Demerol, OxyContin, another narcotic, and Dr. Murray, your client, wouldn't have known about it?
E. CHERNOFF: I suppose it's possible.
But Dr. Murray was there that night, and he did not see him consume Demerol or take Demerol or OxyContin or any pills that would have caused these problems.
BROWN: Has he, Dr. Murray, reached out to the Jackson family to explain to them what happened, to offer them some comfort or talk about those last moments of Jackson's life?
E. CHERNOFF: Yes, he reached out immediately.
BROWN: Who did he talk to?
E. CHERNOFF: And I know there was some -- there was some press about him not doing that. But he reached out to them immediately. He went to the hospital with Michael Jackson.
He stayed with him in the room until the doctors at UCLA pronounced Mr. Jackson dead. He was there with LaToya, Jermaine, and Mrs. Jackson, with Michael Jackson's children for hours after he was pronounced dead, over three hours after he was pronounced dead.
He counseled Jermaine on -- on a press release that they were working on. He counseled the doctors on how to address Mrs. Jackson, knowing that she had a heart condition, counseled that -- he was there telling -- he was the person with the manager who told Michael Jackson's children that their father had died.
And they were very, very close. And he was the one that was -- that did that. So, yes, he's reached out to the family and continues to reach out to the family. He's here to help in any way possible. BROWN: And, Mr. Chernoff, finally, let me just ask you to bottom-line this. Is there anything -- because there is a lot of pressure on your client right now. Is there anything Dr. Murray could have done differently that might have saved Michael Jackson's life?
E. CHERNOFF: I'm sure he asks himself that question all the time.
And that's one of the reasons that we're trying to cooperate as much as we are with the L.A. Police Department and the medical examiner's office.
We don't know -- Campbell, we don't know what killed Michael Jackson. We don't know why he died. And until -- if we can get away from all these rumors and we stick with the facts, and we -- until we get the toxicology report and a final autopsy report, we won't know.
At that point, maybe. Maybe you can ask the doctor that question, and he will have an answer. But, right now, it's a mystery to us. We are the ones -- Dr. Murray is the one who requested an autopsy report. He's the one who first suggested to the family to get an autopsy.
Once -- once -- once he -- once that was requested, then it was -- it was -- they followed his advice, and they did request an autopsy. And, once that autopsy comes back, then we're going to know.
BROWN: All right, Ed Chernoff, Mr. Chernoff, of course, the attorney representing Michael Jackson's doctor, really appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.
E. CHERNOFF: Thank you, Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Police did search Michael Jackson's house today and did find drugs on the premise. Now, does that contradict the doctor's story?
Plus, why did the family ask for a second autopsy? We're going to have the very latest on the investigation tonight very shortly.
Plus, who should raise Michael's kids? His family goes to court today to try to keep custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: This is where they belong. We're the parents. And we have got other kids of their size. They love those kids. And we love those kids, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: New developments in the Michael Jackson death investigation.
Los Angeles police and the coroner's office returned this afternoon to the mansion that Jackson was renting. And they removed two bags of drugs from his house. No word yet on what kind. But we just heard from the lawyer, you just heard a moment of ago -- this is the lawyer for Jackson's doctor -- who claims no drugs will be found in Michael Jackson's system and he claims there was no overdose.
So, with us right now to try to sort out some of the contradictions here, Jim Moret, who is a reporter for "Inside Edition." He's also a former CNN anchor, joining us from Los Angeles. Also, Harriet Ryan who covers celebrity justice for "The Los Angeles Times," and Sharon Waxman with us as well, editor of the entertainment news Web site "The Wrap."
Welcome to everybody.
Let me get you all to react -- Jim, you start here -- on what we heard from Dr. Murray -- or from the attorney, rather, for Dr. Murray. What did you think?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, I mean, I think he's being a good lawyer. I think he's trying to protect his client. He says his client did not prescribe or administer Demerol or OxyContin or any other drugs that would have caused an overdose.
However, these are the inconsistencies. There's a local pharmacy that claims Jackson owed $100,000 in medication. That predates Dr. Murray coming on to the scene. We have attorney Brian Oxman, a family friend, and another family friend who both told me that they have been concerned for a long time, years even, that Jackson has been overusing medication.
Those are inconsistencies. And then add to that the fact that the LAPD took medication out of Michael Jackson's home. It's unlikely that medication isn't involved. But, of course, you have to wait for the toxicology reports to be sure.
BROWN: Harriet, what are you hearing?
HARRIET RYAN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, I think -- I want to give Ed the benefit of the doubt here and make a distinction between painkillers and prescription medication.
We know that Michael Jackson was taking prescription medication. That's one of the few things the coroner's office has said. Our sources are telling us that the police investigation is widening into other physicians who may have treated Mr. Jackson in the past, not just now, but over the course of years, and that they're going to start looking very carefully at that.
And from past investigations, the Anna Nicole case that we have now, we know this can take a long time to sort of cross-reference pharmacist records, medical records, and track down all these doctors.
BROWN: That -- Sharon, the drugs could be coming from a lot of different places, presumably.
SHARON WAXMAN, "THE WRAP": Yes.
They -- they undoubtedly were coming from a lot of different places. We know that Michael Jackson had been dealing with back pain for many, many years. We also know that he didn't look very healthy. I mean, come on, we have all -- we have seen the pictures of him. And everyone around him who have been interviewed, including the people you just showed on the air, talked about how frail he was.
And you are talking about someone taking strong, probably taking strong medication without a whole lot of meat on his bones, so to speak, so that's going to have a powerful impact on him. And this will not be the first time that we have seen celebrities being -- getting multiple prescriptions from multiple doctors.
Who knows what he had in the house.
BROWN: Right.
WAXMAN: But we do know that he had severe back pain for many years. And also we have seen him in a wheelchair.
BROWN: Well, let me ask you, Sharon, the attorney for Dr. Murray said that he's working with the family very closely and being open with them.
But Jesse Jackson said that the family had requested the second autopsy partly because they had concerns about this doctor. How to you square that?
WAXMAN: You don't square that. I think that the family -- well, first of all, we don't know what the second autopsy has said. So, there have been some reports apparently, I don't know, out of England or places like that, saying needle marks and that kind of thing.
I don't think that is accurate. And I don't know that we know exactly what the autopsies are going to say. But, obviously, this is a very complicated case. And the family wants to protect their interests and have their own set of information. And it wouldn't be the first time that the family might have one version of events, and the officials of the state or the city might have a different version of events.
BROWN: And, Jim, would a second autopsy uncover anything that the coroner wouldn't?
MORET: Well, you want a second opinion always, just in case something was missed. But they're going to use the same blood and tissue samples as that first autopsy.
This wouldn't also be the first time that you have a celebrity who is surrounded by enablers. And Michael Jackson loved to surround himself with people who agreed with him. And if you didn't agree with him, you were not on the inner circle. So the fact that if he was in fact able to get multiple doctors to give him medication, he could get away with that for quite a long time because of his inner circle.
BROWN: Harriet, very quickly...
WAXMAN: But the other thing is that the fact that the lawyer said that just because Dr. Murray didn't see him take anything doesn't mean he didn't take anything...
BROWN: Right.
WAXMAN: ... obviously, that's a pretty...
BROWN: Right.
Let me ask you, Harriet, if you know anything about the will. There are also a million conflicting reports about whether or not he had a will.
RYAN: And I'm hearing those reports, too.
I think it's interesting that the family went into court just two business days after his passing to file to take control of the estate. I mean, that's unusual, especially for a man who over the course of his career had had dozens and dozens of attorneys.
I'm not sure that -- if they have checked with all these attorneys, if they have talked to everyone who was a business and financial adviser, and said, hey, did this guy have a will? We don't know. But it's happening pretty quick. It's been pretty quick for them to say there is no will.
BROWN: Right.
A lot to sort out here. To Harriet, Sharon, and Jim, thanks very much, all of you. Appreciate it.
Tonight, we're going to follow up on some of the points just made there -- drug-pushers in Hollywood. Michael Jackson battled addiction for years. But, still, from what many of his friends say, he had unfettered access to narcotics like OxyContin. Drew Pinsky, joining us live when we come back, he's part of a growing course of people who think at least some of these doctors should be brought to justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "THE BOOK OF SECRETS": There's a plethora of doctors in Hollywood, they are drug-peddlers, Wolf. They are drug- pushers. They just happen to be having a medical license.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Our next big question tonight, what role did doctors play in Michael Jackson's death? Did they help an addict get dangerous drugs?
You heard the attorney for Jackson's private physician. He says tests will show Jackson did not have narcotics in his system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
E. CHERNOFF: Campbell, I can't go into what we believe that Michael Jackson had consumed that night, had ingested that night, because we have an agreement with LAPD not to go into that until toxicology comes back.
But I believe, when toxicology comes back, you're -- you're not going to find narcotics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, my next guest says there's a whole lot more to this story.
Dr. Drew Pinsky is an addiction specialist. He's the host and executive producer of "Celebrity Rehab" on VH-1, also the author of "The Mirror Effect," and contributing author to "When Painkillers Become Dangerous."
Drew, good to see you. You heard the lawyer there.
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Are you buying it? What did you think?
PINSKY: Well, you're running headlong on some very nuance issues here. For instance, the word narcotic, that's a very inaccurate term. You need to ask him was he using opiates or opioids?
For attorneys, narcotic sometimes means illicit drugs, street drugs.
BROWN: Right.
PINSKY: And so probably he's not using narcotics by the attorney's definition of narcotics. The original term narcotics meant drugs that induce narcosis or sleep, so it's a very inaccurate term. I think if you went back and ask him, was he taking opiates or opioids for pain, he would say, absolutely he was.
And you need to know that that's another nuance and highly controversial issue, which is how to treat people with a history of opiate addiction who have chronic pain? In my world, you take them off pain medication because this is exactly what happens. My patients die every day of pharmaceutical drug overdoses in exactly these kinds of situations.
BROWN: But, Drew, he also said no overdose. In his view, he didn't think -- I mean, what could he have meant, I guess?
PINSKY: Yes. I think he was choosing language very, very carefully. You're getting a sort of lawyerly or attorney-esque discussion there. And he might have meant there was no intentional overdose or that the doctor didn't give what would be unusual doses of medication. But just the combinations of things that have been reported are sufficient to make somebody stop breathing, no doubt about that.
Not only that, a healthy, essentially 50-year-old man admittedly with many, many medical complaints but a man who can get up and dance in front of a stage. A 50-year-old man should not have trash bags full of medication in their home. And a $100,000 pharmacy debt, that is profound drug abuse and that's what Deepak Chopra was concerned about in that previous segment he mentioned before you guys went to break.
BROWN: But you can't -- I mean, I don't know, maybe you can. But I guess that would suggest that there are multiple doctors involved here writing multiple prescriptions. Is that the most likely scenario?
PINSKY: I think that is. And I feel very bad for Dr. Murray. He may not have really understood what he got himself into there. But this is the nature of relationship with celebrity and physician.
If physicians feel sort of charged up and sort of especially -- we call it basking in the glow of celebrity, if they are gratified by their relationship with the celebrity in ways that are not good for the patient or really don't have training in dealing with addicts and people with narcissistic disorders who need confrontation and frustration -- and, by the way, you risk your access to these celebrities when you give them what you need.
There are plenty of cases where I've tried to do that and the patients just dismiss me. That happens. But that's what they need. And if you go in and gratify the patients, you end up in situations like this. And, unfortunately, as Dr. Chopra was saying, there are all together too many physicians who line up to sort of bask in the glory of celebrity and gratify these people rather than give them what they need which is frustration and confrontation.
BROWN: But, Drew, I mean, I guess it's not illegal necessarily that they're writing these prescriptions. You think these guys ought to be brought to justice. What does that mean? How do you go after them?
PINSKY: I'm not sure you can. I think you're getting into a very nuanced area. As I've said, there's an epistemological struggle even with the medicine.
You heard the attorney said he was prescribing medications for specific medical problems. We're going to find out. I bet you that those problems aren't pain.
And if you don't have a lot of experience treating chronic pain and addiction, we know Michael Jackson was an opiate addict. He was admitted to a couple of different treatment centers. You can't have been admitted to a chemical dependency treatment center without a diagnosis of addiction.
Back in London over ten years ago, they admitted it was opiate addiction. That is a lifelong addiction. It doesn't go away. And if an opiate addict is using opiates, their addiction is active. And if you don't have a lot of experience dealing with that, you can really get yourself in some unpleasant situations.
I'm really -- poor Dr. Murray has gotten himself into those situations. Whether he should be brought to justice, I don't know. But certainly physicians, we need to do a much better job of policing our profession in how we approach people who are celebrity and addicted.
BROWN: Well, it's a fascinating issue here. Drew Pinsky, Dr. Drew joining us tonight. Really appreciate it, Drew. Thanks.
PINSKY: My pleasure.
BROWN: Michael Jackson's father speaking out today on the family's plans for Michael's three children. Will there be a custody battle here? Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: We love those kids, too. We're going to take care of them and give them the education they're supposed to have. We can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have another newsmaker tonight -- Michael Jackson's father, Joe Jackson. Their relationship was, well, beyond strange. While the pop star was alive, Michael, himself, alleged in multiple interviews that his father had severely abused him as a child. Now, Joe Jackson has mostly denied it.
Today, he gave a press conference outside the family home in which he disclosed a lot of detail about the impending custody situation for Michael's kids and upcoming plans for the funeral. But listen very closely as Joe Jackson starts off by plugging his new record company. Here's Joe Jackson in his own words tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: Hello, everybody. I'm here to witness that Marshall (ph) -- and this is Marshall, by the way. And also, this is something that we want you to know that I was asked a question last night about the record company.
Well, what I'm doing is I established a record company with Marshall. And the company is called Ranch Records distributed by Blue Sun Blue-Ray. Yes. So we have a lot of good artists fixing to come out. And I have been asked that question and I answer it just like it was asked because they wanted to know what else I was doing.
The family and I are very proud too see all of you come out here and help us with this whole situation because we know that we do have fans all over the world. We know that we are loved all over the world. But one thing that I wish could have happened. I wish that Michael could be here to see all of this, not to wait until something happened like this before -- before it could be realized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What exactly are the funeral arrangements?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Funeral services --
JACKSON: We're not ready for that.
We're not ready for that, yet, because we're trying to wait on something. We're searching to see what happens to Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea about what the timeframe was?
JACKSON: Just answered your question. We don't have the timeframe yet because I want to see how this autopsy is coming out, you know? The second autopsy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you expect to hear back from the private autopsy?
JACKSON: They're doing it right now. And I'm expecting to hear back from it really soon. (INAUDIBLE)
Debbie Rowe has nothing to do with what we're doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it true that the family (INAUDIBLE) to fulfill Michael's other dates in this London world tour --
JACKSON: I don't know about that either because I have not seen no rehearsal on the tour yet, not with the rest of the family yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Right here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's either Joe or Al, if you could talk about how the children are doing? Are they talking about their father? And what are they saying?
JACKSON: Oh, yes. They're happy, though. But they're happy with the kids that they're around because we have kids over there, back there, at least. We have kids back there of small, just like they are, and almost some of them are the same age. And so, you know, they were never around others kids. But they're happy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Jackson, have you seen a will?
JACKSON: Have I seen -- no, not yet. No, not yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is Mrs. Jackson?
JACKSON: She's fine. Thank you.
Doing fine. She's doing great.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) that Michael will be buried in Neverland Ranch?
JACKSON: That's not true. That's not true.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So what will happen to the children? That's next.
Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine, went to court today to get custody. Well, what if any role also will past allegations of abuse play in the court's decision? We'll talk about that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are following new developments, all the new developments tonight on the custody case involving Michael Jackson's three children. You're also getting a new look at the King of Pop of what he was like as a father.
Tmz.com posted these pictures of Michael and his kids looking very much like a typical American family. Sharp contrast to some of the earlier pictures, some of the strange pictures we were used to seeing of Michael's children wearing masks or veils in public.
Well, today, a Los Angeles judge made Michael's mother, Katherine, temporary legal guardian of Prince Michael, Paris, and the youngest child, Blanket. Michael's father, Joe Jackson, had something to say about that today. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: This is where they belong. We're the parents and we've got other kids of their size. They love those kids and we love those kids, too. We're going to take care of them and give them the education they're supposed to have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Back with me now from L.A., again, "Inside Edition" chief correspondent Jim Moret. And right here with me in New York, CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom joining me again.
I want to ask you guys to talk about the custody situation. But first, I just wanted to get your reaction, Jim. You start with -- to this press conference, to Joe Jackson. And listening to him today, what did you think?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": You know, I've heard this news conference now five times and every time I hear it I'm still stunned. This does not sound like a father who's grieving. He sounds detached.
And if you look at the documents that were filed with the court, and Lisa I believe mentioned this earlier as well, they were very careful. The temporary guardianship has been granted to Katherine, not to Katherine and Joe. And I think after listening to this news conference, you can understand maybe why they want to separate Joe from the equation.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
BROWN: That was going to be my question for you.
BLOOM: Yes.
BROWN: So he's not involved here?
BLOOM: Yes. She filed the application to be the guardian. She is appointed the temporary guardian. And I think that was a strategic move because she comes into the court with clean hands as we say legally. They've got nothing on her.
Joe Jackson has this history of alleged child abuse but not Katherine. Look at him yesterday committing this terrible faux pas of talking about his record company. So to fix it today, he plugs his record company, again. I mean, it makes no sense. It shows his bad judgment.
BROWN: Would that come into play or could that potentially come into play? He had the allegations of abuse that we heard in some of these interviews that Michael has done.
BLOOM: Only if someone can test custody. And the only someone that could be would be Debbie Rowe who's so far has not indicated that she wants custody of the kids.
BROWN: So what do we think is going to happen here, Jim? I mean, walk us through the scenario. She hasn't suggested that yet, so where do we go from here? What potentially could happen?
MORET: Well, the family says that they have not even been contacted by Debbie Rowe. But as Lisa will point out under California law, Debbie Rowe is the mother of two of those three children and she could claim parental rights unless she has waived them. And she thought she had done so in the past. A lawyer ruled that she had not done so, so she could come back in the picture. And here's why.
There's a great deal of money that's going to follow those kids because they will inherit a tremendous fortune. I understand that Michael Jackson is supposedly some $300,000, $400,000 in debt. But the spending is over and the asset could continue to grow. And where the money goes, that's where you could find a battle.
BROWN: So even if though Michael Jackson's mother does get custody of the children, she's also 80 years old.
BLOOM: Yes. She's almost 80 years old. That's right.
BROWN: I mean, so what happens next? BLOOM: Well, presumably, look, this is a family of great means. They have a full-time nanny who we're all hoping has been staying on because, by all accounts, she's been doing a good job with the children. It's a large extended family, so hopefully it's not just Katherine solely responsible for these three young children.
We heard the family today talk about cousins and other grandchildren being around the children, maybe giving them a relatively normal life where they're interacting with other children, maybe a little bit less sheltered than they've been in the past.
BROWN: And the youngest children -- the youngest son --
BLOOM: Prince Michael II is his legal name.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It's his legal name.
BLOOM: Right.
BROWN: They call him blanket. That's sort of a nickname.
BLOOM: Right.
BROWN: Jim, do we know -- I know they don't have the same mother, correct? Do we know whether anybody else might also have the right to challenge?
MORET: Well, on the document it's listed as none because it was -- they simply haven't revealed who the mother is. And it was a donor. But we've never been told the identity of that person.
BROWN: Right.
MORET: And when you talk about an extended family, a lot of people live at that family compound. And so you're right. This could be a semblance of normalcy for those kids to grow up with cousins and aunts and uncles and lead a semi-normal life.
BLOOM: And, Campbell, I'd just say in the guardianship papers, there's a clear wall between the Jackson family and Debbie Rowe. They say they don't even know her address. They say they don't even know the names of her family members which would be the children's grandparents on her side.
They say they hadn't made any attempts to contact her about guardianship. It's almost as if they're trying to minimize her as much as possible to keep her out of the children's lives.
BROWN: Oh, boy, you hope this is one situation that gets wrapped up very quickly and with the least amount of angst possible.
BLOOM: Everybody could get together and be present in the kids' lives.
BROWN: Absolutely. Lisa and Jim, many thanks again. Appreciate it. Michael Jackson's mountain of debt, you heard Jim talk about it there, could turn into a huge fortune. One of the issues here. But who would get it? What happens to all that money?
We're going to talk about that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As if the mystery of what killed Michael Jackson isn't enough, here tonight, there is a huge financial mess to try to wade through Jackson's estate or what's left of it. Right now, even the most basic details are up in the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Was there a will?
LONDELL MCMILLAN, ATTORNEY: Well, there have been reports on one and we're trying to assess that now. None has been presented to the family at this time.
LEMON: And not through his attorney, through you, a will has not surfaced?
MCMILLAN: I have not seen a will at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: From coast to coast, headlines in this morning's "L.A. Times" and the "New York Daily News" are just the first sign that we could see a summer of ugly legal battles over all of this. So who would potentially end up profiting here?
Let's bring back Sharon Waxman right now, along with entertainment attorney James Walker, who has represented a number of celebrity clients including the Jackson family. And our legal analyst Lisa Bloom joining us once again as well.
You guys have all been doing reporting on this. James, you've talked to a lot of people. You've been looking into the family business. And Michael Jackson's business dealings, what did you learn?
JAMES WALKER, ENTERTAINMENT ATTORNEY: Well, a couple of things I learned. First, though, I want to clear up this $500 million in debt, Campbell.
He was in heavy debt but a lot of it was mortgage monies against his publishing catalog.
BROWN: OK.
WALKER: I want to point out to your viewers that Michael Jackson's catalog, he didn't sell the entire catalog. And he had various companies that own different portions of his music. For example, he had MiJack (ph) publishing which owns the "Off the Wall" stuff.
BROWN: Right.
WALKER: The "Great Balls of Fire," and other great songs.
BROWN: OK.
WALKER: Then you have the Sony ATV partnership that he shared with Sony. Now, when you do a partnership like that, as an entertainment attorney, I can tell you he didn't sign to Sony the entire 100 percent.
BROWN: OK.
WALKER: There was some portion of it to Sony.
BROWN: So there is still -- there's still a lot of money coming in? That's really the bottom line.
WALKER: There's still millions of dollars coming in. And I looked at a lawsuit filed by his former manager, Raymone Bain, his spokesman and manager. And in her lawsuit, she says that from one of the companies, he was getting about $10 million to $15 million a year in revenue and publishing revenue. And it's not the Sony ATV company, it's another publishing deal yet, I believe with Warner Chappell. So if you look at that and all these other issues --
BROWN: All right.
SHARON WAXMAN, "THE WRAP": I'm skeptical about all this. Michael Jackson has been very deep --
BROWN: Go ahead, Sharon.
WAXMAN: Yes, thanks. I mean I've done a lot of reporting on Michael Jackson's finances in recent years, and he has not had money coming from these catalogs. He's been borrowing against his half ownership of that Sony ATV catalog for years and he's defaulted on those loans. Not recently.
So, what was going on with that catalog, the last time I checked is that Sony had the option of being able to buy half of the catalog and that's Michael Jackson's half of the catalog. And they've been waiting to do that.
WALKER: But, Sharon, if you check the copyright records, there's nothing indicating that they actually bought it or they actually purchased it.
WAXMAN: No, they haven't done it.
WALKER: So they've done nothing. So, in fact, if he has sold them a portion of it, he still remains a majority owner because there's no indication that they exercised that option.
BROWN: So that does mean, Sharon, that basically, and I want to boil this down because I don't understand all the legal ramifications by any means. But that the family or whoever ends up with, you know, his holdings could sell it all and wouldn't be stuck with all this debt? Bottom line?
WAXMAN: No, no. I don't think that's true at all. I don't think that's true at all. I think that Michael Jackson defaulted on a lot of loans that he took out. He's basically been living off of the largesse of other people, whether that's Sony or whether that's the Bahraini prince.
But it is correct what Jim Moret said earlier which is that Michael Jackson's spending which had no relationship to his actual income anymore is now finished. So his catalog or whatever assets he has will, or his music will continue to throw off revenue for his children. And as we reported at "The Wrap," it seems like there was his last rehearsal the night before he died was recorded. If that -- and it is releasable as an album. Just imagine how many copies that would sell for the next 50 years.
BROWN: Now, hold on, I want to bring Lisa into this. Because really what we care about is that his mother at least has been granted temporarily control of all his assets. And what does this mean for the children? You don't want them to be saddled with this enormous amount of debt.
BLOOM: She's been given control of the small stuff, not the big stuff. She's been given control of his tangible personal property which are things like a computer or table. Not real estate.
BROWN: Right.
BLOOM: And not the big business interests like the ATV Sony catalog that we've been talking about. She's not controlling those at this point. The judge could order that down the line. But for now, it's just the small stuff so she can take care of the kids and control the personal property.
WALKER: And, Campbell, I want to be clear to Sharon and the other viewers out here. We have nothing on record to prove that Sony actually exercised 25, 50, or 100 percent of the catalog.
BROWN: Right.
WALKER: So what we do know is he owned that catalog and the majority of it.
BROWN: All right.
BLOOM: And money will be coming in.
WALKER: And money will be coming in to the estate.
BLOOM: And continue to come in.
BROWN: And we've got to end it there because we're almost out of time. But still, clearly, a lot of unanswered questions. But many thanks for a little bit of enlightenment there from James Walker, Sharon Waxman and Lisa Bloom. As always, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
WALKER: Thank you.
BROWN: Less than a week ago, the King of Pop still getting set for his comeback concerts. Tonight, the choreographer who was at his final rehearsal shares his memories of Jackson doing what no other performer could for the very last time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNY ORTEGA, JACKSON'S CHOREOGRAPHER: He was the Michael Jackson that we all remembered, you know, with that same incredible electricity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Our breakout tonight, insight into Michael Jackson's final days from a man who worked more closely with him than perhaps anyone else. When Michael Jackson was working these moves, in his final rehearsals last week, choreographer Kenny Ortega was there.
Abbie Boudreau of CNN special investigations unit asked Ortega whether Jackson was in any shape to do the shows that he had planned.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KENNY ORTEGA, JACKSON'S CHOREOGRAPHER: It was awesome to watch him. You know? It was not like watching, you know, a 50-year-old man returning to the stage. In fact, you know, there were nights where he looked up there and it was, like, just timeless, ageless.
You know, he was the Michael Jackson that we all remembered, you know, with that same incredible electricity and performance no-how. You know, an entertainer of entertainers.
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The night before Jackson died, Ortega was with him at the Staples Center in Los Angeles for a rehearsal.
You were with him on Wednesday.
ORTEGA: I was with Michael on Wednesday. Yes, as I was like about six days a week since April, you know, where he was, you know, 100 percent invested in every single dynamic of the entire production from helping, you know, lineup the shots for the film sequences that we were shooting to overseeing the choreography, the costuming, the lighting -- you know, the rundown. You know, working with the band, working with the singers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Danny Ortega. That's it for us. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
