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Nancy Grace
Investigators Take Bags of Evidence From Michael Jackson Rented Home
Aired June 29, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson, the king of pop rushed to the ER after collapsing, reportedly in front of his own young son at his $100,000-a-month rental home, Bel-Air, California. UCLA medical doctors desperately attempt to revive Jackson. All attempts fail. At 2:26 PM California time, Michael Jackson pronounced dead.
Bombshell tonight. Literally as we go to air, LAPD and coroner`s investigators converge on Jackson`s home, leaving with trash bags full of evidence, reportedly drugs. This as stunning details emerge about Jackson`s alleged autopsy report -- pills, needle marks and a nearly bald head, reports that needle marks everywhere, including Jackson`s hips, his body allegedly bearing scars from approximately 13 plastic surgeries, the bridge of his nose collapsed, the king of pop emaciated at 5-10, 112 pounds. In his stomach, nothing but pill fragments. The reports not yet confirmed.
Jackson`s collapse leaving his estate in chaos. We learn court documents reveal he died intestate! Translation, no will. As grandmother Katherine Jackson takes temporary custody of Jackson`s three children, reports their bio mom will resurface to seize custody of his multi-million- dollar estate estimated at over $1 billion.
Tonight, questions swirling. What took so long to call 911? Why wasn`t the phone in a multi-million-dollar rental home working? Was there a lethal injection just prior to Jackson`s death? And after Michael Jackson painfully reveals physical abuse at the hands of his own father, are the courts sending his three beloved children back into that same horrific scenario? Tonight, music icon Michael Jackson dead at 50, the fate of his children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Fire paramedic 33. What`s the address of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I have -- we have a gentleman here that needs help. And he`s not breathing.
MICHAEL JACKSON: This is it. I mean, this is really it. This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Describe the performance that you put on.
JACKSON: Well, whenever I sing, that`s what I really mean when I`m singing a song. I don`t sing it if I don`t mean it.
I remember going to the recording studio. There was a park across the street, and I`d see all the children playing and they`ll be rooting and making noise. And I would cry. It would make me sad that I would have to go and work instead.
If you really want to know about me, there`s a song I wrote which is the most honest song I`ve ever written. It`s the most autobiographical song I`ve ever written. It`s called "Childhood." You should listen to it. That`s the one they really should listen to.
Because what`s wrong with sharing love? You don`t sleep with your kids or some other kid who needs love, who didn`t have a good childhood?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, I don`t. I would never dream of sleeping...
JACKSON: I would. I would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would never dream...
JACKSON: Because you`ve never been where I`ve been.
There`s a lot of sadness about my past life, and you know, adolescence and my father and all of those things. It just made me very, very, very sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he would tease you, make fun of you?
JACKSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would he -- did he ever beat you?
JACKSON: Yes, he did. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was difficult to take, getting beaten and going on stage and performing.
JACKSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why would he beat you?
JACKSON: Because he -- he saw me -- he wanted me -- I guess maybe -- I don`t know if I was his golden child or whatever it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBBIE ROWE, MOTHER OF TWO OF JACKSON`S CHILDREN: My kids don`t call me Mom because I don`t want them to. They`re not -- they`re Michael`s children. It`s not that they`re not my children, but I had them because I wanted him to be a father. I believe that there are people who should be parents, and he`s one of them.
We are a family unit. Michael and I will always be connected with the kids. I will always be there for him. I will always be there for the children.
And people make remarks, Oh, I can`t believe she left her children. Left them? I left my children? I did not leave my children. My children are with their father, where they`re supposed to be.
And I said, Let me do this. I want to do this. You`ve been so good to me. You`re such a great friend. Please let me do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You earlier heard Janet Jackson talking about her brother`s death. That was at last night`s BET Awards. You just heard the children`s bio mom, Debbie Rowe, talking about what a great father Michael Jackson was. Now reports emerging that she may resurface to seize control not only of the custody of the three children but of an estate now estimated at $1 billion-plus.
Straight out to a special guest joining us, Lieutenant Fred Corral. He is with the coroner`s investigative division, investigating the death of Michael Jackson. Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. I understand that in the last hours, the LAPD and the coroner`s investigators have been back to Michael Jackson`s home, his rented Bel-Air home, and have removed trash bags of evidence.
LT. FRED CORRAL, CORONER`S INVESTIGATION DIVISION (via telephone): That`s correct, Nancy. It`s part of our protocol. This is standard in death investigations. Oftentimes, we need to go back to scenes, and we did go back there and it`s my understanding we did collect evidence. We are bringing that back to our facility.
GRACE: Lieutenant Corral, the death occurred at the end of last week. This is Monday evening. Do you believe that the scene has been tampered with in any way? Or has the scene been watched? Has it been taken care of so no tampering could take place?
CORRAL: As far as that, the information we were given, we went back there again to follow up on investigation information that our investigators need to go back for. Again, this is a common -- this is very common, Nancy. We do go back to scenes. And it`s not whether or not a scene was tampered with. We want to go back either for evidence collection or to interview other witnesses who may have been there, or again, at the request of our medical examiners to check on maybe medications or other issues that our doctors want to make sure we collect, in addition to information to establish a cause of death.
GRACE: Lieutenant, I understand the autopsy, of course, is complete. When will that autopsy report be made public?
CORRAL: It will be about four to six weeks, Nancy.
GRACE: Four to six weeks. Is that in order to obtain toxicology reports?
CORRAL: That`s testing, toxicology testing, and to get the tests completed and then give the report to the actual deputy medical examiner who did the examination.
GRACE: With me, Lieutenant Fred Corral. He is from the coroner`s investigative division. In the last hours, LAPD and coroner`s investigators converging on Michael Jackson`s $100,000-a-month rented Bel- Air home, leaving with bags of evidence.
Lieutenant Corral, an autopsy report, portions of it, has surfaced. Would you be willing to say that that report is not accurate, that it is not a leak, that it is, in fact, a fraud?
CORRAL: All I can tell you is our office has not released any documentation. Currently, the cause of death is pending further toxicology results. And again, I would tell you that our office has not released anything regarding any cause of death or any type of autopsy result at all to anyone. It is pending as I speak to you.
GRACE: Lieutenant Corral, we have been told that the bags -- the bags removed from the Jackson home were full of medication. Is that true?
CORRAL: There was evidence collected, Nancy, as I told you. Our investigators are on their way back to our office as we speak. And it could be. That I cannot confirm at this time. What I can confirm is that there was additional evidence collected at the scene.
GRACE: Lieutenant Corral, can you tell us what led the medical examiner to send investigators back to the home for further investigation?
CORRAL: Again, that`s standard protocol, Nancy. As our investigators seem (ph) necessary, many times, we go back to scenes at, again, either the request of our medical examiner, the doctor that did the examination, to check for additional information or evidence. It`s not uncommon. It`s not out of the ordinary. We do this all the time.
GRACE: With me is a very respected lieutenant out of the coroner`s investigative division. He is investigating the Michael Jackson death, Lieutenant Fred Corral.
We are taking your calls live, this story unfolding by the moment. We learned tonight from court -- official court documents that Michael Jackson apparently died intestate. In other words, without a will.
Let me first unleash the lawyers before we go back to the reporters, Eleanor Dixon, Leonard Leeds (ph), Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez. First to you, Eleanor Dixon. Lieutenant Fred Corral has been correct and reliable in everything that he has told us. But after many, many homicide prosecutions, I find it very unusual -- and I`m not suggesting this is a homicide. What I am saying is the coroner -- just because somebody has a heart attack and dies in their home, you don`t send investigators back time after time after time to grab evidence.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: No, you don`t, Nancy. And this suggests to me that they`re looking for something in particular, maybe medication, something Michael Jackson maybe had been taking that they can link to the toxicology report. So this is an unusual step just for somebody who died of cardiac arrest.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the reporters. Joining me right now at the Jackson parents` home, Susan Roesgen. Susan, I understand that grandmother Katherine Jackson has temporary custody of the three children. But as we came to air tonight, we played sound of Michael Jackson describing physical abuse at the hands of his own father. What role does Joe Jackson play in that family? Will he be around these three children?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, we don`t know, Nancy. But here`s something very interesting. In the petition that was filed to give Katherine Jackson, the grandmother, custody of the children, there`s a place where you have to list that person`s address. And it gave Katherine Jackson the address here behind me, but did not give an address for Joe Jackson, her husband. In that line, it said, Address unknown. What does that mean, that he might leave this home and she would keep the children here alone? Something to think about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that these children have to go through this is really compounding the tragedy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge granted temporary guardianship of his children to Jackson`s mother, Katherine.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: Of course. This is where they belong. We`re going to take care of them and give them the education they`re supposed to have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are so bright. They`re so intelligent. They`re so talented. They`re just wonderful children. They are a reflection of Michael Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie Rowe is the mother of the two oldest children. Rowe`s attorney hasn`t said whether or not she`ll seek custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a custody issue. Michael Jackson was their father. He had custody. He had physical custody day in and day out, and they have lost him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mike Walker, senior editor with "The National Enquirer." Mike, thank you for being with us. It`s great to see you again. Michael Jackson dead at age 50 -- Mike Walker, an autopsy of sorts has been released and has been in many, many publications today. Our sources telling us it may be outright false. What do you know?
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER": We are not certain. We know from our own sources only that we find Michael Jackson weighing 110 pounds and some other details, but not these lurid details that have been printed in "The Sun" newspaper in Great Britain. We do not know if that is accurate.
GRACE: Where did you get the 110-pound figure? Wasn`t he a 5,10 -- you`re saying 110 pounds?
WALKER: Yes. Exactly. That`s coming from sources that we absolutely know to be accurate and reliable. But all of these other details about the -- I mean, again, marks on Michael`s body would not surprise anyone. Obviously, he had plastic surgery alternations, needle marks from all the drug use that he was indulging in back many years ago, when "The Enquirer" first reported that he was actually taking, you know, drugs intravenously, on an IV drip. But no, we can`t stand for that story, we can`t back it up because we don`t know if it`s true.
GRACE: Also, Mike Walker, this autopsy report, if it is to be believed -- and our sources are telling us it may be an outright fraud -- states that his body was covered in needle marks. Now, I can understand the four needle marks that are allegedly over the heart, where they were trying to revive him, possibly putting -- injecting adrenaline straight into the heart. Also, we were led to believe that ribs were fractured. That could have happened during resuscitation attempts. A lot of that can be explained.
WALKER: But again, the ribs being broken -- for instance, we`ve already heard -- let`s get to the doctor who has been questioned by the police. Here is a man who has been roundly criticized for trying to administer CPR on a bed, rather than -- and we all heard in the 911 call, the technician saying, Get him on the floor now, you need someone on a hard surface. It`s surprising a doctor wouldn`t know that.
Also, any doctor knowing that there were all these widespread reports of Michael Jackson taking drugs for many years, then giving him drugs -- well, it`s no wonder this doctor is being questioned. I don`t know if he gave him drugs. But we do know that Michael was taking drugs on a daily basis. And that led to this headline, Nancy. Here`s January 12, "National Enquirer," 2009, six months ago, the headline, "Michael Jackson has six months to live." And that was based on medical reports, very accurate as it turned out.
GRACE: You certainly did predict it, Mike Walker. Mike, what do you make of the phone in a $100,000-a-month rental home not working?
WALKER: It`s bizarre. It`s -- but it`s one of those things -- things like that would happen around Michael because, as you know, over the years, Michael would fire people in his entourage. He didn`t have one entourage, he had many entourages. And the trouble was -- and we`ve heard suggestions from, say, Brian Oxman, Jackson family lawyer, that there were people around him, enabling him to do things. But there were also people around him who were incompetent, who were allowing things like that to happen, like phones not working.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. And joining us is Brian Oxman, the Jackson family attorney and confidant. He`s radio host of "Insight" at KLAA.
Out to Susan in Virginia. Hi, Susan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been watching this almost moment to moment since the story broke, and I haven`t heard anyone say who made the 911 call.
GRACE: Excellent question. Brian Oxman, who finally made that call?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT: Boy, it is a real mystery. We do not recognize the voice. No one in the family has been told who it was. So we`re not certain who it was, Nancy. Just don`t know.
GRACE: OK. Brian, I`ve got another question for you. After all we have heard over the years, and from Michael Jackson himself, about enduring physical abuse at the hands of his father`s -- at the hands of his father, is the court actually sending his three children back into that home?
OXMAN: Well, first, Nancy, this was an occurrence of some 40 years ago.
GRACE: So?
OXMAN: So a long, long time. Number two...
GRACE: Oh, so it didn`t happen?
OXMAN: No, it happened, absolutely. He was a disciplinarian. He struck his children. But each one of the children has said...
GRACE: I don`t know that "disciplinarian" is what Michael Jackson conveyed. He conveyed something much worse than disciplinarian.
OXMAN: He said -- he said he hit him. He said he -- he said he hit him but good. But the reason for the hitting is that Joe Jackson didn`t want his children to die on streets of Gary, Indiana. He wanted them to be performers. So the motives were good, the actions were deplorable, so...
GRACE: What do you think Jackson...
OXMAN: ... you have to take that into consideration.
GRACE: ... would have to say about his children going back into that home? Do you really believe he would want that?
OXMAN: Nancy, I`ve seen children put into homes where the discipline took place...
GRACE: That is not what I asked you...
OXMAN: ... three months ago...
GRACE: ... Mr. Oxman!
OXMAN: ... not 30 years ago.
GRACE: That is not what I asked you! Do you think...
OXMAN: What is your question, Nancy?
GRACE: ... Jackson would want his children to go into this home?
OXMAN: Oh, I think he would be very, very pleased to have Mrs. Jackson take care of his kids.
GRACE: I`m asking you about the father, and you are avoiding the question!
OXMAN: Well, the petition here is from Katherine Jackson. Michael...
GRACE: Well, doesn`t he live with her?
OXMAN: ... loved his father...
GRACE: Doesn`t he live with her?
OXMAN: Michael -- his house is in Las Vegas. Katherine`s is in Los Angeles. Now, they do share the houses together. I think Michael would have no problem whatsoever with his dad being in the presence of his kids.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This just in, cops seizing possible evidence from Michael Jackson`s rented mansion in Los Angeles. The L.A. County coroner`s office tells HLN medication was found on the premises, but they wouldn`t say how much. Now, we do have video that`s just in to us at HLN of cops leaving the house with two large plastic bags. We`re told the Jackson family is cooperating on all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This as we learn grandmother Katherine Jackson has temporary custody of Michael Jackson`s three beloved children.
Back to you Brian Oxman. You have skillfully evaded my question as to whether Jackson would want his three children in the hands of his father, who he says physically beat him. Now, you keep saying Katherine Jackson is the one on the documents, but he lives with her. She couldn`t protect Michael Jackson from the beatings. So why could she protect these three children?
OXMAN: Well, I`m not sure how skillfully I evaded the question, Nancy. I`ve got bullet holes here and here to prove it. But I can tell you this. Michael Jackson would want his mother to be the custodian of the children, and he would have no problem that Joe Jackson would be in their presence. But as to Joe being the custodian, I think you`re correct.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: My brother, the legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away on Thursday, June 25th, 2009, at 2:26 p.m. It is believed he suffered cardiac arrest in his home.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: And the family and I are very proud to see all of you come out here and help us with this whole situation.
JERMAINE JACKSON: Emergency physicians and cardiologists attempted to resuscitate him. But they were unsuccessful.
JOE JACKSON: Michael is -- was the superstar. He`s a superstar all over the world.
JANET JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S SISTER: My entire family wanted to be here tonight. But it was just too painful. So they elected me to speak with all of you and I`m going to keep it very short, but I`d just like to say that to you, Michael is an icon.
To us, Michael is family. And he will forever live in all of our hearts. On behalf of my family and myself, thank you for all of your love. Thank you for all of your support. We miss him so much. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: If they miss him so much, why aren`t they stepping up to the plate and taking custody of those three little children to help raise them? The sisters and brothers all young and able body.
I want to go out to Mike Walker with "The National Enquirer." How old is Katherine Jackson?
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER, COVERING STORY: Katherine now is in her, I believe, mid-60s. As Brian Oxman has pointed out, Michael would love to have his kids with his mother. But the reason all these kids are not stepping up to the plate is one reason and you`re seeing it right on TV, Joe Jackson, one of the most evil men, as everyone in the music business says over and over again.
You`ve heard Michael Jackson say countless times how Joe abused him. But here`s what was the key to the abuse. It wasn`t just the hitting. It was not letting him play with other kids. Not letting him get drivers license. All of the things he did to restrict him, because to Joe Jackson, Michael Jackson is dollar signs.
And you just saw it. We saw the vile performance of Joe Jackson on the red carpet at the BET Awards promoting new artists for his new record label. Here`s his son not even in the ground yet and Joe Jackson`s already doing business, he`s taking control. Michael`s going to be his big payday all over again. And those kids are afraid of their father.
GRACE: Well, I would be afraid that he will try to cash in on Michael`s -- Michael Jackson`s own flesh and blood. If he would do that to his own children, what would he do to his grandchildren? And apparently, Katherine Jackson, you know, God bless her, I`m sure she`s a lovely lady but she didn`t stop it to start with. She let it happen then. Who says it won`t happen all over again?
I want to go out to Natisha Lance standing by at the Jackson home. We know that investigators with the coroner`s office and the LAPD have just left the home. What`s happening?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, ON LOCATION FROM MICHAEL JACKSON`S HOME: Well, just as you said, Nancy, just a short while ago, members of LAPD and the coroner`s office were here. They left with two large plastic bags. Now this is probably containing evidence that will help them continue their coroner`s investigation, which is suspected to last about four to five weeks.
Now what we`re hearing from Ed Winter from the coroner`s office is that there were drugs that were found on the premises. He said that the family is fully cooperating. And this, also, Nancy -- remember the doctor`s car was towed away from the home the night that Michael Jackson died.
And in that car, they had suspected as well that there were drugs in that car that would also be used in that coroner`s investigation.
GRACE: Natisha, did he have a doctor living with him in the home?
LANCE: From what we`re hearing, Nancy, this Dr. Murray apparently did stay with him on certain occasions. He wasn`t necessarily living with him. But if Michael Jackson did ask for him to stay at the home, he apparently did do so.
GRACE: We now have an accurate age on Katherine Jackson. She is 79 years old. All right. We all know about the Jackson 5. We know about Latoya. We know about Janet Jackson. All of these young able bodied, brothers and sisters. Nobody`s stepping up to the plate to take care of these three children except a 79-year-old grandmother.
We are taking your calls. Live out to Judy in Florida. Hi, Judy.
JUDY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey, Nancy. You pretty much asked the question I was going to ask.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
JUDY: Why aren`t his brothers and sisters stepping up?
GRACE: Yes, I want to go back to Susan Roesgen. Susan, standing by the Jackson parent`s home. What role, if any, are the brothers and sisters playing in this?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: None that we`ve seen here, Nancy. We`ve seen Katherine coming and going. We`ve seen the Reverend Al Sharpton here counseling the family, he says, on how to preserve Michael Jackson`s legacy. But we haven`t had any public statement or even seen any of the brothers and sisters.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Dixon, Atlanta. Felony prosecutor, Lenard Leeds, former estate attorney for Anna Nicole Smith out of New York. Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. Alex Sanchez, famed defense attorney out of New York.
Alex Sanchez, what about this doctor?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know I think that the doctor has some questions to answer. I find it absolutely incredible that he`s giving information that there was no phone available for him to call. Everybody carries a cell phone.
Besides, isn`t the Neverland ranch a national landmark practically? I mean certainly he knew where that place was located so.
GRACE: Well, remember, they were at a rented home in Bel Air. He hasn`t lived in Neverland since police raided it. But you`re right about the cell phone. And to top it all off, Alex, Sanchez, he apparently said, well, I didn`t know the street address.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I mean, didn`t he show up at the location when Jackson invited him to come there? So I -- there`s some legitimate questions that the police are asking.
GRACE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He`s got to answer those questions.
GRACE: I agree, Alex Sanchez.
To Lenard Leeds. Lenard, intestate, translation, no will. Now a lot of people are suggesting that the will is bad because it`s old. But a will isn`t like a sack of bread. It just goes bad. So unless there have been intervening events such as a birth of a child or something similar to that, wouldn`t a will, if one exists, still be good?
LENARD LEEDS, ESTATE ATTORNEY, FORMER ESTATE ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH: Absolutely. And I`d be shocked if there weren`t a will. Here you have a situation where Michael Jackson had tons of assets. He had a former wife. There`s an issue with respect to the third child. Why wouldn`t he have a will?
And any lawyer -- and he apparently dealt with dozens and dozens of lawyers -- would have advised him to have one. Now, remember, the only reason that we`re saying that he doesn`t have a will is because the petition filed by his mother in court said when they asked her no, there wasn`t a will.
But how would she know? There were reports that a lawyer`s going to be coming forward in the next few days and presenting a will. That would not surprise me in the least.
GRACE: To Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Georgia. Peter, I want to talk to you about this shot that the doctor allegedly gave Michael Jackson just before he collapsed. Could that go to a criminal charge?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the whole course of conduct that`s been alleged about this doctor could go towards a criminal charge. A negligent act, over prescribing drugs, giving drugs under circumstances where a doctor knows that it might cause death. So yes, and this doctor has a lot of tough questions to ask -- to answer.
GRACE: Well, that goes without saying, that there are a lot of tough questions. He has spoken to the LAPD.
Eleanor Dixon, I don`t know that actively giving a shot just before someone dies is negligence. That sounds like an overt act to me.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: It depends on what the doctor knew, Nancy. Is this some type of thriller, you know, with Michael Jackson. But if he knew that he had a problem, if he knew he had a heart condition and gave him too many drugs, then there could be negligent.
GRACE: We`ll be right back. We are take your calls live.
Very quickly with millions of children out of school for the summer, here are tips to protect your family. Never let your children play alone outside. Never. Encourage them to check with a parent or guardian before they go somewhere.
Never, never allow them in public restrooms alone. That`s a never, never. Remind them to stay away from pool, busy streets, deserted areas without a grown-up. Make sure you put reflectors on their bike bicycles in case it suddenly gets dark and they`re still out playing.
And finally, speak openly with them. Teach them to say no and to get away from a situation that makes them scare or even uncomfortable. For more info, please go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at MissingKids.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK, and he`s not conscious either?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he`s not conscious.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. Is he on the floor? Where`s he at right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s on the bed. He`s on the bed.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK, let`s get him on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had some concerns about the positions and the people who were around him during the last moments of his life?
JOE JACKSON: Yes, I am. I have a lot of concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are your concerns about?
JOE JACKSON: I can`t get into that, but I don`t like what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Was anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s been the only one here.
ED CHERNOFF, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DOCTOR: Dr. Murray never prescribed Demerol, never administered Demerol, never saw him -- Michael Jackson take Demerol. And that goes as well for OxyContin. So I think those are just rumors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, we are getting, straight out of the L.A. court house as we speak, literally, I`m trying to look for a time stamp. I`ve only got a date stamp. Apparently just filed by the Jackson estate. Documents claiming that -- a third party is claiming to have power of attorney granted by Michael Jackson.
That there is, in fact, no will. And that bank accounts of Michael Jackson`s are being controlled right now by a third party. Now this is filed on behalf of the Jackson estate.
I want to go, very quickly, to Lenard Leeds. If you grant someone power of attorney in life, doesn`t that power of attorney end when you die?
LEEDS: Generally it would. And then the will would take precedence or the laws. So we would like to know who filed that. And what standing did they have, if any.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got the name of the lawyer, but as far as petitioner it simply says the estate. It`s filed by Bert Levich.
Very quickly, to the calls, to Paula in Texas. Hi, Paula.
PAULA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
PAULA: Yes, I just want to know if Debbie Rowe steps up to the plate and tries to get custody of those children, what are her chances in court, especially going up against Joe Jackson and these -- the entire family maybe and all that money that they have?
GRACE: I would say right now her chances are pretty slim.
Liz, cue up some sound from Debbie Rowe talking about how she didn`t want custody or very much to do with her children in life.
To Stacy Brown, former Jackson family friend, co-author of "Michael Jackson, The Man Behind the Mask." Stacy, what do you make of Joe Jackson having essentially custody of these three children?
STACY BROWN, FMR. JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND, CO-AUTHOR OF "MICHAEL JACKSON, THE MAN BEHIND THE MASK" (via phone): Nancy, you know, as well as I know and Brian Oxman knows that Michael would be mortified to think that Joe Jackson would have any type of custody or anything to do with them, Joe raising those kids. I`m sure he doesn`t mind his mom having custody of the kids.
GRACE: But mom is 79 years old. And, Stacy Brown, it`s no secret Jackson and I were at odds over his child molestation trial. But that`s done and over with. That`s now between him and God.
Now I`m concerned about those three children. His three children that, by all appearances, he seems to just love dearly. Now she`s 79 years old. Where`s the rest of the family?
BROWN: That`s a good question. I know that they have -- they`ve discussed a lot -- you mentioned the women of the family. I know the women of the family in the past have discussed what would happen to those children if something were to happen to Michael.
And I know that they are concerned. Now what role that they`re willing to play. You know, you always got to put your money where your mouth is. And I know that they have often spoke that, you know, they would be the first to be there if something happened to Michael. Now it has happened. So we`ll see, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, I know this much, Stacy Brown, I know this. Katherine Jackson, the grandmother who`s filing for custody, not any of the brothers or sisters who are young and able-bodied.
Everyone, remember, all the money at stake. If Debbie Rowe, the dental hygienist that carried Michael Jackson`s children after artificial insemination, allegedly, gets control of the three children. His entire estate -- he`s intestate, not a will, goes to those three children. She would have control of that as well including the Sony catalog that he owned.
It`s not just the Beatles songs. It`s Neil Diamond, Bob Dylan, Little Richard, Elvis, although I think he gave back Little Richard`s to Little Richard.
We are taking your calls. I want to go to Belinda in Georgia. Hi, Belinda.
BELINDA, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, how you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
BELINDA: My question is what`s wrong with the grandparents having the kids?
GRACE: What now? What, what?
BELINDA: What`s wrong with the grandparents having the kids? I`m quite sure that Joe Jackson has been around the kids.
GRACE: Oh, well, you know what, Belinda, I don`t know if you`re familiar with Michael Jackson himself stating publicly on many, many occasions the pain and suffering he went through at the hands of his father and how he hated it, how he was belittled and actually physically beaten.
So I would say that`s what`s wrong with it. I`ve never heard a bad word about Mrs. Jackson, only good things. But remember, she was there when Michael Jackson was beaten by his father. Is this going to be a repeat?
Out to John Lucich, former criminal investigator, president of High- Tech Crime Network.
John, thank you for being with us. What was the coroner seizing at that home today?
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": You know, there`s no doubt about it, Nancy, that what he found during that autopsy was on the outside of the body or inside his stomach, inside his intestines or bowels, led them go to back and look for more evidence.
And it appears that they found it because they`re taking bags and bags of stuff out of there. And there was no doubt about it. It`s mostly likely drugs.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone out of Medical Heights, Michigan. Dr. Morrone, what do you make of it all?
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MD., MEDICAL EXAMINER & FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: What I make of it is they needed death scene photography and they went back and looked through refrigerators, cabinets, drawers. They`re looking for needle, they`re looking for prescription bottles.
GRACE: But what do you believe they had in those bags, Dr. Morrone, and what do you make of this alleged autopsy report?
MORRONE: What I make of the alleged autopsy report is it fits the history. It fits the history. And when you go through the garbage, people don`t think about the garbage. You look for old hypodermic needles. You look for prescription records that somebody`s filling drugs that could put them at risk.
So the doctor may be right that he didn`t administer it. But he didn`t say that he didn`t know anything about anybody else giving the drugs.
GRACE: And what about this CPR allegedly performed on a bed?
MORRONE: That -- that`s very suspicious, but in the hospitals and in the primary care and EMT setting, we know you need a hard surface. And even in hospitals, they slide plastic underneath the patient to do CPR. So he may not have been board certified and he didn`t have the correct techniques.
GRACE: To psychologist and author, Dr. Jeff Gardere. What do you make of the daddy Joe Jackson plugging his record label before his son`s even buried?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": Well, Joe Jackson, as we know, is a man who`s always been out there. He`s been an entrepreneur.
But very quickly, Nancy, I want to tell you, talking about whether Joe should be able to take care of these kids. Remember, Michael named his first son Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. And Joe Jackson was never investigated, to my knowledge, by child welfare officials.
GRACE: Good to know. As we go to break, happy birthday to two little crime fighters. Florida friend of the show Zachary turns 2. Look at him. An angel. And Georgia friend of the show Ava celebrating her 5th.
Happy birthday, Zachary and Ava.
And happy birthday to Texas friend, Loucille Skagan (ph). There she is graduating in law school age 54. Today, the mother of one, 90 years young, the number one tennis player in her age group, Dickenson, Texas.
Happy birthday, Loucille.
And we ask for your thoughts and prayers for California friend Katinka, fighting and winning her battle against cancer. Her son Sean serving the army as a 1st lieu tent.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are just receiving a late-breaking wire that Michael Jackson`s three little children asked to go see his body at UCLA Medical Center after he was pronounced dead.
Out to the lines, Denise, Florida. Hi, Denise.
DENISE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DENISE: I have a question. Since Debbie Rowe has admitted to being artificially inseminated by an anonymous donor, is it actually known whether or not Michael is actually the biological father?
You know, even though -- you know, and he is listed on the birth certificate as the father. But did he legally adopt them or if not would Debbie Rowe still be entitled to money from Michael`s estate, you know, if she should be gaining custody of the children?
GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer." What about it? What about the possibility he`s not the bio dad, but the law is, if a child is born during a marriage, the dad, the husband, is presumed to be the legal father.
WALKER: That is correct. And he has, on the record, said he is the father. It doesn`t matter whether she was artificially inseminated. I mean they both agreed to that artificial insemination. Just because you`re artificially inseminated doesn`t mean the child is not your child. And she -- yes, the answer is she will get big money in child support if she gets custody of those children, yes.
GRACE: And Mike Walker, I`m understanding it, very quickly, you`re saying there is a will?
WALKER: I had meant to drop this as a little bombshell and I was waiting for one of our learned attorneys to tell you, Nancy, that -- and I knew this from my own sources that a few weeks ago, Michael Jackson rehired John Branca. You remember him, the powerhouse lawyer who.
GRACE: Right.
WALKER: . way back in the beginning was his attorney.
GRACE: Right. So are you saying yes?
WALKER: Branca has a will from Michael Jackson and he has already informed the court that that will is coming.
GRACE: Let`s remember Army Sergeant Jason Jordan, 24, Elba, Alabama, killed Iraq. Enlisting after high school. An honor student. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal.
Loved helping his parents work their cattle farm. His best friends, Jana and William, named their little girl in his honor. Leaves behind parents Danny and Sandra, brother Christopher.
Jason Jordan, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And good night from friends of the show, Dan and Catherine, students at UGA.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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