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New Details on Michael Jackson Investigation, Meds Found in Singer's Home; Iraq Regains Control of Cities as U.S. Troops Pull Out; Reverse Discrimination Ruling Reversed; Toddler Survives Yemeni Plane Crash; Do Doctors Put Money Over Ethics?
Aired June 30, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And we're coming up at the top of the hour right now. Welcome once again to AMERICAN MORNING on this Tuesday, June 30th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. We're tracking breaking news this morning. Several developing stories that we'll be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
We're tracking the breaking news out of the African nation of Yemen this morning. CNN has confirmed that a toddler has somehow survived the crash of Yemenia Flight 626, an Airbus A310 that crashed into the Indian Ocean off of the northwestern coast of Madagascar. More than 150 people were onboard. So far, the child has been the only one found alive as far as we know.
CHETRY: Also new this morning, new pictures and new details are emerging about the final days and minutes of Michael Jackson's life. And as the fight for his fortune begins, investigators are returning to his rented home. They left with medications. We're live in Encino, California.
ROBERTS: And Iraq declared today a national holiday as U.S. forces officially turned over control of cities and towns to Iraqi Security Forces. The government is naming June 30th National Sovereignty Day. But the real question remains, can Iraqi soldiers and police keep the country safe? We're live on the ground in Baghdad with our Michael Ware this morning.
CHETRY: We begin, though, with the latest developments on Michael Jackson's death. This morning, those closest to him are trying to untangle what remained of his fortune and who should raise his three children.
There are reports that Jackson drafted a will back in 2002. His attorney reportedly has it and plans to file it with the court. Investigators also went back to Jackson's rented house, left with medications.
Meanwhile, the celebrity Web site, TMZ, posting new pictures of Jackson and his three children. A court also granted temporary custody to Michael's mother, Katherine.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is live in Encino, California. Also, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is standing by, getting ready to head to California as well.
First, though, we start with Ted. And you were outside of Jackson's home yesterday as investigators went in there. They removed, we're told, medication along with other things. What is the latest on the investigation?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kiran, police are very careful to say this is not a criminal investigation, but it is clearly a very active investigation. Yesterday, they went into the home where Michael Jackson fell ill. And they took out two large bags of what they're calling medical evidence.
They're saying that interviews and other information that they garnered over the weekend led them to go back to the house even though they had cleared it on Friday and allowed the family to go back in. They say that they're also interviewing other people.
The "L.A. Times" reporting today they're interviewing other doctors that had contact with Jackson. That makes sense. Obviously, they're going to look at all of the prescriptions that Michael Jackson received over the time period leading up to his death, contact those doctors. And then, when the toxicology results are firm, they'll look at what exactly was in his body, who wrote those prescriptions, and why.
Meanwhile, the -- here at the house here, the memorial continues to build here. People still coming by the house, and they're still trying to work out the legal issues surrounding Michael Jackson. And they are extensive looking forward.
Temporarily, Katherine Jackson has been given custody of the children and she's also being allowed to control the money, at least for now. Hearings are set for both of those matters, though, in the coming weeks. And obviously, there's a lot to untangle.
CHETRY: Ted Rowlands for us this morning. It sure is for sure. All right. We'll check in with you a little later live in Encino, California this morning. Thanks.
ROBERTS: Let's turn now to CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He is headed to Los Angeles in our next hour. He's a certified medical examiner.
And, Sanjay, you cover a lot of the situations. When you think about this, what kind of questions come across your mind?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting. And we don't know obviously what the cause of death was for Michael Jackson. A lot of people pointing to toxicology and a possible combination or high doses of drugs.
We hear about this all the time, seemingly, how easy is this to happen? Can the average person get their hands on enough medications like this to kill themselves or to cause an accidental death? You know, how does this happen, exactly? What sort of safeguards are in place? What are the rules of these enablers around someone like this? And sort of piecing that all together I think is something that I've always been curious about as a doctor and as someone who studied medical examination as well. So, that's something we're going to be looking at.
Also, as you mentioned, John, these last few minutes before Michael Jackson died, what exactly was going on? How was the CPR being performed? Was it effective? Could there have been anything else done? I think most of all, what are the lessons learned for the average person, John.
ROBERTS: And Joe Jackson has said that he doesn't want to bury Michael until he sees the results from a second autopsy that's been arranged by the family. It's a private autopsy. You're talking about this yesterday. What do you think they'll be looking for?
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's interesting. When you have a second autopsy or private autopsy, you're sort of controlling information a little bit more so than with the other autopsy. So, you know, there may be -- like, for example, the toxicology results we keep hearing will take four to six weeks to come back.
The reality is a lot of those lab tests come back much sooner but the coroner's office won't release all of it until the entire autopsy is completed, looking at tissues under the microscope. All that sort of stuff. So they're probably going to get information a little bit faster.
They may also be able to control information a little bit better with a situation like this, and just getting a second opinion, I think, overall in this sort of thing.
You know, there are certain examples. For example, looking at a strand of hair and examining it millimeter by millimeter can only tell you the sort of amounts of drugs that may have been on someone's body. But also the chronicity of it. How long did someone been taking these levels of drugs?
So there's going to be all sorts of information sort of going to be accrued (ph) I think in the days and weeks to come. But I think as far as the second autopsy comes, it's the control of information that's probably going to be a little bit faster for them.
ROBERTS: A medical examiner, of course, Sanjay, said that the cause of death was cardiac arrest. But we know that when the doctor was there at Michael Jackson's house, he reportedly was not breathing but apparently there was a weak pulse. So as a doctor, what sort of situation do you think that that set up?
GUPTA: Well, you know, you typically see this sort of thing in the emergency rooms like, for example, in drowning. Someone who's found at the bottom of a pool, for example, it's typically a respiratory arrest that subsequently leads to cardiac arrest.
So for some reason, the person stopped breathing or was unable to breathe anymore, hangings and other sort of situation. But once you're not getting enough oxygenated blood in the body, the heart starts to slow down. It's just not able to function anymore and eventually it gets to a very diminished pulse and then fades away completely. So that's the typical situation, a respiratory arrest followed by a cardiac arrest.
ROBERTS: All right. Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Doc, we'll let you go because we know you've got a plane to catch for Los Angeles.
GUPTA: See you from L.A. tomorrow.
ROBERTS: All right. Thanks so much.
CHETRY: Also developing right now, U.S. forces have officially turned over control of cities and towns in Iraq to the country's security forces. Iraq declared this a public holiday calling it National Sovereignty Day.
Some celebrated during overnight hours with fireworks and some singing and dancing in central Baghdad. There wasn't a mass exodus today, though. U.S. troops have been slowly pulling out. Most were gone by this past weekend.
Our Michael Ware is tracking things live in Baghdad this morning. And the other thing, you know, to say that, you know, there's been this mass pullout, I mean, we still have more than 100,000 troops in Iraq.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, let's not delude ourselves. We're not seeing a mass exodus of American troops. I mean, unfortunately, the men and women of the Armed Forces aren't coming home anytime really soon.
Under the agreement that was signed by the Bush administration that started this war and effectively established the end of this war, the U.S. has another 18 months to get the troops out. After that eight, not one single combat boot is to remain.
Under the plan as it stands by the Obama administration, ideally that should be completed by August of next year. I think we're going to have to wait and see how that goes.
Those combat troops have retreated to a pre-designated bases, a planned phase which have began back in January. It took a long time. It's all done now.
They underwrite the security just by their presence. And, of course, they're going to have to continue providing air support and firepower to the Iraqis. Because on their own, this really wouldn't be an entirely fair fight against the militant extremists, particularly Al Qaeda, and particularly the extremely well-trained Shiaa militants backed by Iran -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Yes. There's also some brand new CNN/Opinion Research poll out this morning. It shows that about half of people think that violence will increase in Iraq when we see U.S. troops leave. However, that same study shows or poll, rather, shows that people don't necessarily want us to go back into those urban areas because of that uptick in violence. So is that concern also there in Iraq about what's going to happen once we're gone?
WARE: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And in many ways people feel that the U.S. has gone certainly in terms of the street and certainly in terms of the environment and what you can taste when you're in the neighborhood because the U.S. forces simply aren't there. And the people are celebrating that. Because whether it was well intended or not, it was a foreign occupation and they're delirious that that is finished.
But the Iraqi people are well aware of the capabilities and the limitations of their own security forces. But given it's been a river of Iraqi blood that's been spilled over these last seven years, no one more than the Iraqis know the risks that they're taking, nor does anyone know better than them the price that they most likely will have to pay for this sovereignty -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Michael Ware for us in Baghdad this morning. Thanks.
ROBERTS: Wall Street con man Bernard Madoff will serve the first full day of his 150-year prison term today. He was sentenced yesterday for an investment scam that spanned more than 20 years and cheated thousands of people around the world.
Meantime, "The Associated Press" is reporting at least ten more people could be charged by the time the investigation is complete.
President Obama reportedly drafting plans to boost security along our southern border because of the Mexican drug wars. Some 1,500 National Guard volunteers will be used to support existing counter drug programs. Administration officials say the plan would last no longer than a year.
And the U.S. military right now reportedly providing Pakistani forces with intelligence as the country steps up its offensive against the Taliban. The "New York Times" reporting the military has resumed surveillance drone flights over the country's lawless tribal areas. The video and the information is then being shared with Pakistan to help hunt down Taliban leaders and take out terrorist strongholds.
It's 11 1/2 minutes after the hour.
ROBERTS: It's a decision that could affect workers and bosses nationwide. The Supreme Court just ruled that white firefighters in the city of New Haven, Connecticut were victims of bias and unfairly denied promotions because of their race. Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor was on the other side of this as an Appeals Court judge.
Here to walk us through the wider implications from this case is legal expert and George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley.
Professor Turley, it's good to see you this morning.
JONATHAN TURLEY, J.B. AND MAURICE SHAPIRO PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC INTEREST LAW: Hi, John.
ROBERTS: The Supreme Court ruled yesterday that the city of New Haven was strong to throw out test results for promotions for these firefighters simply because it feared litigation. It's basically suggesting as long as the test is fair, the results are legal. How wide do you think the implications of this are going to be?
TURLEY: Well, this is clearly a landmark decision. It essentially creates both a defense and a burden that is relatively new. What the court is saying is that there has to be some type of balancing here. And you can't simply say I'm going to throw out these results as you know because we're afraid of being sued.
And what Justice Kennedy said was that you need to show something beyond that, that there is a reasonable basis to believe that you did create this disparate racial impact due to the test. Now, what that will do is it will give cities a defense to be able to say that we don't believe that we have that type of evidence. So, therefore, we'll keep these tests.
It also means the cities that want to change results and try to bring more diversity into the ranks will have to show a little more before they reverse engines on a test like this.
ROBERTS: This is a 5-4 decision, and there's no shortage of opinions outside of the Supreme Court on this opinion. Frank Ricci, one of the firefighters, said that the ruling is "proof positive that people should be treated as individuals and not statistics. If you work hard, you can succeed in America."
Meantime, New Haven Mayor John DeStefano, who was one of the plaintiffs in the case said, "It's a continual erosion of civil rights law by the Supreme Court. Who's right?
TURLEY: Well, I think that people are overplaying the decision in one respect. Kennedy's decision is more middle of the road than, for example, what Justice Scalia was suggesting. He raised very significant questions of whether any racially-based remedy of this kind is constitutional.
Kennedy would still allow cities to do race-based remedies to actually act on what they consider to be disparate impact problems. He's just saying you need to show a little more. And so I think that people might have to sort of dial down a bit on the rhetoric here because I think that this is a very important change but it doesn't end the ability of cities to bring diversity into the ranks.
ROBERTS: You know, when you look deeper too, you know, what's behind the results of the test, you get no shortage of opinion as well. Clint Bolick from the Goldwater Institute wrote an opinion piece. He said, "When blacks and Hispanics flunk examinations, the cause is less likely to be discrimination than the appalling educational conditions to which most economically disadvantaged black and Hispanic children are consigned. The fact that few minorities passed the examination should be a call for remedial action, not to throw out the test but to equip more minorities to pass it."
And then in the "USA Today," the editorial board said the problems are with the testing method, saying, "New Haven based promotions to lieutenant and captain in the fire department solely on test scores that almost by definition couldn't adequately measure a candidate's leadership skills, command presence or ability to act under pressure."
So you've got one opinion here saying it's the educational system that's to blame. You've got another opinion that says, no, no, no. It's the fire department because they didn't design a test that adequately shows leadership skills.
TURLEY: Well, you know, John, Justice Ginsburg in her dissent goes a great length to say that she viewed there to be a very significant problem and how this test occurred. She notes that after American firefighters appeared to have less access or did not get materials in time as did the white firefighters, there's no suggestion that those materials were kept from them, but that she raised these types of questions of barriers to performance.
Those are the types of things that cities are going to have to look at, and I think cities are going to have to be creative, perhaps a little more creative in how to diversify their ranks. The important thing is to not take this decision to an absurd degree and say that these cities can't act to diversify their ranks.
As Justice Ginsburg has said, firefighting units have a long history of racial discrimination. And I think that the majority of justices believe that there is a legitimate reason for cities to try to diversify. It's just that they need to be able to show more and maybe be a little more careful on -- on the preparation for these tests, access to materials and the other things identified.
ROBERTS: Most certainly has heightened awareness to everything regarding this. Jonathan Turley -- John, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
TURLEY: Thank you, John.
CHETRY: And we want to update you now on a plane crash of a passenger jet from Yemen that crashed in the Indian Ocean overnight. There were 153 people onboard according to "The Associated Press." Also reporting from "The AP," one child, a 5-year-old was pulled alive from the waters. Also, three bodies reportedly pulled out as well.
And a Yemeni official is telling "The AP" that while it may be too early to speculate on what caused the crash, "the weather was very bad. The wind was very strong," adding that the windy conditions right now, some 40 miles per hour. The wind speed clocked at are hampering their rescue efforts.
They say that also it was 40 miles per hour when that plane was landing. And again the site of the crash, they say this Airbus 310 crashed in waters about nine miles north of the Comoran coast at about 21 miles from the airport that it was supposed to land at.
So, again, we're following more developments. An update now, 153 people were onboard that flight and a 5-year-old pulled from the waters of the Indian Ocean alive.
This is the second crash of an Airbus jet this month. Back on June 1st, an Air France Flight 447 crashed off Brazil. That flight carrying 228 people, all presumed dead. And, of course, we'll keep you updated on this story throughout the morning.
It's 20 minutes past the hour.
CHETRY: Welcome back. It's 23 minutes past the hour. We have Christine Romans with us. She's "Minding Your Business" this morning. And you have a halftime report.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I do.
CHETRY: I didn't know you were a sports reporter.
ROMANS: I know. Well, it is kind of being a sports reporter after the first half of this year round. It looked like, you know, the team was going to have to forfeit in the first half of the year.
But then look what happened in the second half. A little bit of a recovery. So where are we after surviving this first half of the year? Really, a rotten ride for stocks and for the economy.
But look, things are looking up. Things are looking up and we can look forward with a little more confidence than we could when we started this year.
The spring stock rally was unbelievable. The S&P 500 -- oops, that's, well, that's the challenges ahead. That's our second screen. I can do that one if you want.
But let me tell you about the good news first. Spring stock rally -- incredible. The S&P up some 14 percent in the second quarter. I mean, think of that. If you didn't bail out, Kiran, you were talking about if you didn't bail out, if you kept buying into your kids'...
ROMANS: ... 529 and your 401(k), that was a good, smart move because of the huge rally we saw on stocks. So bravo.
CHETRY: Can't add but I stayed in. ROMANS: Job losses are slowing. Consumer confidence is up. We're going to probably hear later this morning that consumer confidence is at a nine-month high. Why? Because people are spending less, they're saving more, they're building up their cushion again. It's making them feel better.
So all of this crisis has really caused people to buckle down and look back at reality and get to what's right. We saw those challenges, though, rising unemployment and uncertain housing market. We're going to hear more about housing numbers today at 9:00 likely here.
The housing prices fell another 18 percent in April.
CHETRY: That's a tough part.
ROMANS: That's a tough part and a arising national debt. We have to pay for all of this. So --
ROBERTS: On the topic of numbers, do you have a "Romans' Numeral" for us?
ROMANS: I do -- 921. You know, I'm obsessed with the stock market rally of the second quarter. So I'm going to tell you it has a lot to do with that. 921 points.
CHETRY: Is this how much the market has gone up since the first of the year?
ROMANS: This is how much the Dow went up just in the second quarter, 921 points. If you hung in there, or even better, if you got in, who can guess? I mean, I certainly couldn't. But if you got in, that was maybe a once in a lifetime rally for a lot of people.
So, again, Kiran kept saying, look, I'm just going to hold in there. I'm going to hold in there.
CHETRY: I don't have a choice. It's down 40 percent. I mean, what are you going to do?
ROMANS: But you're right. You know, there was this --- many people were calling it a bear market rally but a very powerful rally, which was the market telling us, you know what does this make me and for everyone. The market telling us that the worst was behind us. We hope the market is right. Fingers crossed. That's the technical term. Fingers crossed.
CHETRY: Christine, thanks.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
ROBERTS: So we hear a lot about Michael Jackson's doctor. And, of course, you know, celebrity doctors are nothing new. But what are the ethics and the morality behind it? How close is too close for a physician to get with a patient. Carol Costello rings in on that coming up. Twenty-seven minutes, 26 minutes after the hour.
ROBERTS: We're back with the "Most News in the Morning." Michael Jackson's death is raising more questions about doctors who cater to the rich and famous. Elvis had one, so did Anna Nicole Smith. Are these doctors putting money and fame over what's right for their star patients?
CNN's Carol Costello is live for us in Washington. Carol, Michael Jackson had his own concierge doctor, I guess you could call it, Dr. Conrad Murray. How did they meet?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dr. Conrad Murray's attorneys told me that Michael Jackson met Dr. Murray in 2006 when he and his kids were in Las Vegas. A security guard suggested Jackson take one of his kids to see Murray and a friendship was born. And now that friendship has brought up all kinds of ethical questions about doctors and how close they should be to their patients.
COSTELLO (voice-over): From the outside, it seems a magical life. Big mansion, the King of Pop, big money. It can be intoxicating.
And for Dr. Conrad Murray, it was exciting to become Michael Jackson's personal physician. He left his patients in Las Vegas behind, writing to them, "because of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I had to make a most difficult decision to cease practice of medicine indefinitely."
According to the doctors' attorneys, Murray considered Jackson not just a patient but a friend, renting a place near Jackson's home so he could stay overnight if Jackson needed him. And he was well paid. Murray's attorney say he's owed $300,000 for attending to Jackson since May.
Medical ethicists say all of this is unusual and hypothetically dicey. In fact, the American College of Physicians ethics manual says, "Physicians should avoid treating close friends because emotional proximity can result in loss of objectivity."
ARTHUR CAPLAN, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA BIOETHICIST: It may not always be fun. You're not there to be their friend. You're there to be the guardian of their health. It's a tough role to be in. Not everybody is up for it.
COSTELLO: As for the doctor himself, he's said to be devastated and flabbergasted by Jackson's death. And although Los Angeles police found no evidence Murray did anything wrong, Jackson's fans seem to be divided.
On doctor-reviewed Web sites like vitals.com, opinions range from "you killed the King of Pop" to "why are you making assumptions." None of us know what happened in the Jackson residence."
And that is true. But by being inside that residence that night, the doctor opened himself up to scrutiny.
CAPLAN: As much as it might seem like an easy, cushy and glamorous job to be the personal doctor, I don't think it's the best way to practice.
COSTELLO: In other words, according to that doctor, friends don't let friends be their doctor.
And, John, you know, I asked our viewers to comment on this on our blog CNN.com/amFIX. And surprisingly, most people think that it was OK that Michael Jackson had a doctor inside his house. Want to hear some?
ROBERTS: Sure, go ahead. I'd like to hear them.
ROBERTS: Yes. Absolutely.
COSTELLO: Really interesting. This from Debbie. She said, "I think it would be wonderful to have your very own doctor. Why would Michael Jackson want to go to a doctor's office like the rest of the world? It's very different for a celebrity."
This from Bill. He doesn't think it's a good idea, by the way. Does money come before ethics? The short answer to that is yes. In everything, not just doctors.
And this from Laina. "Who wouldn't want a little more of their doctor's time these days. A concierge doctor must maintain ethical boundaries, though, with their patients and stay in control of their medical care."
But, you know, the ethicists I talked to, John, say that's most difficult when you become friends with your patients. You live in their home. You get to know their children. It's very difficult to make tough decisions in regards to your patients because you like them so much.
ROBERTS: That is difficult. It's maintaining those boundaries.
Carol, it's fascinating stuff that you got for us this morning. By the way, continue to tell us what you think about Carol's story on celebrity doctors. Just head to our web site. Where to find it? CNN.com/amfix.
CHETRY: And we're at 31 minutes past the hour following breaking news this morning. A child has been rescued alive from the wreckage of a plane crash off of southeastern Africa.
Officials say a Yemeni Flight 626 was heading from Yemen's capital to the island nation of Comoros when it went down. There were at least 153 people onboard that air bust jet. An immigration officer telling the A.P. that three bodies had been recovered along with that five-year-old found alive and some debris. No other survivors found as this point.
ROBERTS: New information this morning on the sudden death of television's most recognizable pitch man, Billy Mays. A medical examiner in Florida says Mays had an enlarged heart and probably had a heart attack in his sleep.
Billy Mays says he was hit on the head with luggage after a hard landing on a U.S. Airways flight just hours before he died, but that now will be likely ruled out as an influencing factor in his death.
CHETRY: It's not over yet. Officials tell the A.P. at least ten more people may be charged with helping Bernard Madoff pull off the biggest rip off in history. A judge, as you know, sentenced the $60 billion conman to 150 years in prison yesterday.
Whether anyone else will do time for this still remains to be seen.
ROBERTS: And Ford making more cars, saying the worst is behind us. The company announced it just had its best sales month of the year, and it plans to boost car production by 16 percent.
Ford was the only one of the big three American car makers who did not file for bankruptcy this year.
CHETRY: Also more on a developing story now. There were fireworks going off over Baghdad this morning as Iraqis took over security of their own cities, the U.S. pull back complete.
But the U.S. military announced that four more U.S. soldiers died on the eve of the pullout in what's been a bloody week leading up to this milestone.
But the top commander of U.S. forces says Iraq is ready for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RAY ODIERNO, COMMANDING GENERAL OF MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ: I believe they're capable of doing this. We'll still be conducting significant operations outside of the cities and the belts around the major parts of the cities. And I still believe that this will enable us to maintain the current and stability situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Tom Ricks is a special military correspondent for the "Washington Post." He joins us from our Washington bureau this morning. Thanks for being with us, Tom. You're also a senior fellow for the New American Security.
General Odierno thinks or believes, at least, from what he said, that the Iraqis are capable of assuming control of their nation, the security of it, at least. What's your take?
THOMAS RICKS, SPECIAL MILITARY CORRESPONDENT, "WASHINGTON POST": I think that the operative word in General Odierno's statement is "belief." No one really knows whether Iraqi security forces will be able to handle it. It's a leap of faith that we're taking here.
My concern is we've taken this kind of leap of faith before and it hasn't worked.
CHETRY: And tell us about that. I mean, there were times when we, what, we sort of left the city that we had control over in Iraq, left special Iraqi security forces go in there, and then had to return, right, because of sectarian violence and terrorist attacks taking place there?
RICKS: Exactly. One of the themes of the Bush administration, remember, was as they stand up, we'll stand down. This is another instance of them supposedly standing up as we stand down.
The problem is that Iraqi security forces in the past were not able to take on a security function, and violence and chaos ensued. You're probably going to see a small spike in violence in the coming days. The question here is how long it will be, how intense it will be, and how broad it will be.
CHETRY: And you mentioned one of the mantras of the Bush administration was when they stand up, we'll stand down. And the issue kept coming back to training, training, training.
We've been there seven years training, trying to help, trying to bring people in to the army, trying to get the loyalty there. Why has that proven to continue to be such a challenge?
RICKS: Training is important, equipping is important. But the real key thing for Iraqi security forces isn't whether they're better trained or better equipped than the militias and the insurgents. The question is whether they're better motivated.
The militias and insurgents knew what we were fighting for. The question has always been, do Iraqi security forces know what they're fighting for? And that's really the big question out there.
The problem is Iraq has not had the political breakthrough that the surge was supposed to lead to.
RICKS: And so all the questions that faced Iraq for years and led to violence in the past are still hanging out there.
RICKS: What's the relationship between Sunni, Shia, and Kurd? How do you split up oil revenue? Will you a strong central government or a loose confederation? All these questions led to violence in the past. None of them have been solved. And so logic tells you they're going to lead to violence again.
CHETRY: Are we plucking one thing out of that equation? You talk about what the motivation was. Many said it was fighting against the occupation. If the U.S. troops were not there on the ground then there wouldn't be as much motivation for some of these militia groups.
Will that change as we see the drawdown. And we say "drawdown" and not a pullout, because we still have 130,000 troops in the country. But reducing their presence on the streets, will we see that possibly help tamp down the violence?
RICKS: I think it will help with some groups, but it will hurt with others. For example, Shiite militias have kept their heads down while the Americans were fighting the Sunni insurgents.
Now with the Americans pulling back, you'll probably see Shiite militias reassert control in large parts of Baghdad and other parts of the country.
Now the question is, will a Shiite dominated central government fight with the Shiite militias or cooperate with them to oppress the Sunnis?
RICKS: And the other question then is, do we go back in if there are these problems? I mean, we're supposedly, you know, stepping backward eventually to a major reduction in U.S. troops there. But if we see violence flare up in some of these areas, how do we determine whether it's our job to go back in?
RICKS: In terms of major deductions, I believe this is the fifth or sixth U.S. troop withdraw plan I've covered since 2003. So mark me down as a skeptic on whether it will go as planned.
Also, note that General Odierno said we'll be fighting in the Baghdad belt. That's actually where a large part of the surge fighting took place. So I actually would expect to see a high operating tempo for American forces outside and around Baghdad this summer as they try to stop a new wave of violence from taking over the capital.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we hope that things turn around. Of course, that still remains to be seen, but a milestone nonetheless today, at least a formal one.
Thomas Ricks, thank so much for joining us this morning.
RICKS: You're welcome.
CHETRY: It's 37 minutes past the hour.
ROBERTS: A major development in Iran this morning. Iran's guardian council declared that after a partial recount, no fraud. Again, no fraud was found in the country's election results that triggered bloody and deadly demonstrations across the country.
They say President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had an overwhelming victory, and the results will stand. But will this quiet the people who say that they were robbed. Our Reza Sayah is live at the CNN Iran desk in Atlanta this morning.
How is this declaration going over in Iran today, Reza?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this is obviously not good news for supporters of the opposition. But I don't think it comes as a shock to anybody. Iran's guardian council's, the nation's top legislative body certifying the election results after a partial recount of the vote.
It wasn't official before, it is official now, President Ahmadinejad will serve a second term as Iran's president.
Opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi rejected the partial recount. He said he wanted a full revote. But the guardian council went ahead with the partial recount anyway, counting 10 percent of the vote on Monday.
Based on the results, they say there were no frauds, no irregularities. In fact, the guardian council says, in part to the wrong Mahmoud Ahmadinejad actually gained some votes.
Here's how the news was reported on state-run TV in Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iran's top election body has approved the results of the presidential election. As you can see down there on the screen for yourself, that piece of breaking news.
The announcement came after the body ran a recount of 10 percent of the votes. Reports say that the recount has shown no irregularities in the northern city of Gorgon and Saudi. No change in other precincts either.
In the southern province of Karemon (ph), the votes cast for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has increased.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAYAH: Based on the laws of the Islamic Republic of Iran, opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi doesn't have any legal recourse yet.
Which brings us to these people, the tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands who came out in protest of the elections and support Mir Hossein Mousavi. Oftentimes they risk their safety, they risk their lives. What's going to happen to them?
It doesn't look like they have many more options either. The aggressive crackdown on the part of security forces and the government in large part has been successful in snuffing out their rallies.
So basically, right now they're going to be looking to their leader to see what kind of type of guidance they get. It's very unlikely you're going to see him out en masse. The question is, will this demoralize them, or will it reenergize them to come back sometime in the future --John?
ROBERTS: The Iranian regime, Reza, has told what so many people have said, so many critics are just blatant untruths about the demonstrations, about how that woman Neda died? Do you think anyone is going to believe what the guardian council has to say in regard the election results?
SAYAH: Believe it or not, they're on an aggressive media campaign to get out their message. When it comes to Neda, the 26- year-old woman who was shot with respect to election results, with respect to accusing foreign elements, foreign governments of inciting the virus, they've been on an aggressive campaign to get out their message.
Whether it's believable or not, they're doing it.
But again, the key is Mir Hossein Mousavi. Right now his only hope is for some senior clerics behind the scenes to possibly put an opposition coalition against the establishment. But there's no indication that that's happening either -- John?
ROBERTS: All right, Reza Sayah for us at the Iran desk this morning. And Reza, thanks so much for that.
It's 44 minutes now after the hour.
ROBERTS: Well, if you're going to interrupt the president while he's giving an important speech in the east room, you probably shouldn't do it with a ringing cell phone, especially one that sounds like a duck. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And that real transformative change never begins in Washington.
Whose -- whose duck is back there?
There's a duck quacking in there somewhere.
Where do you guys get these ring tones, by the way? I'm just curious.
(LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Which is exactly what I was just thinking.
CHETRY: But the thing is, he knew right away that it was somebody's phone.
ROBERTS: You never know. There are some ducks that hang around the White House. It might've just waddled its way into the east room there.
CHETRY: People bring their pets to work.
ROBERTS: Do you have a special ringer?
CHETRY: What do I have? Oh, yes --
ROBERTS: You have a Bob Marley song that plays every once in a while, right?
CHETRY: It's "Don't worry about a thing, every little thing's going be all right." That's it. That's my ring tone. That would be welcome at a White House press conference.
ROBERTS: Absolutely. I have Kid Rock on mine. I don't know if that would be welcome on the White House.
It's 49 minutes after the hour. He's a Republicans, you know.
ROBERTS: It's 52 minutes after the hour now.
The unmistakable face and voice of Billy Mays made him the infomercial king for years. He died on Sunday just hours after hitting his head during a rough landing of a U.S. Airways flight.
But the medical examiner says that probably landing had no influencing factor in his death. CNN's John Zarrella does have the details of Billy May's autopsy for us this morning.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, pitchman Billy Mays does not appear to have died from a hit on the head. An autopsy revealed that Mays may well have died from a disease he apparently didn't even know he had.
ZARRELLA: His friends all say Billy Mays had a big heart. He was also living with a ticking bomb -- heart disease.
An autopsy performed Monday revealed the man who had become the rock star of pitch men had high blood pressure and blockages to the heart.
DR. VERNARO ADAMS, MEDICAL EXAMINER, HILLBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA: These diseases are both capable of causing a sudden disturbance in the electrical rhythm of the heart that controls the pumping of the blood.
ZARRELLA: The cause of death won't be official until further tests are in in about six weeks, but it appears Mays' heart and not something that fell on his head killed him.
ADAMS: There's been some speculation about the possible role of an impact to the head that Mr. Mays received in a hard aircraft landing a few days ago. The autopsy revealed no evidence of any external or internal evidence of head trauma.
ZARRELLA: Mays was on a U.S. Airways flight that blew a tire when it landed hard Saturday in Tampa. Afterwards, he told a Tampa television station he was fine.
BILLY MAYS: You know, things from the ceiling started dropping, and it hit me on the head, but I've got a hard head.
ZARRELLA (on camera): According to family and friends, he started feeling groggy that evening. He went to bed and never woke up.
His wife Deborah called 911 when she found him unresponsive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me exactly what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know, I just woke up right now, and I went and looked at him to roll over and his lips are purple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you with him now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is he?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's 50.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he awake?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. He's cold.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): Mays first started pitching items on the Atlantic City boardwalk. His celebrity grew products like OxiClean.
Mays said he always knew when a product was good. What he apparently did not know, that he had heart disease, may have killed him.
ZARRELLA: The preliminary autopsy revealed a thickening of the wall of the left ventricle as well as a thickening of the artery that leads to the heart. Both of these are consistent, the medical examiner said, with sudden death -- John, Kiran?
ROBERTS: John Zarrella this morning. What a shame.
CHETRY: I know. It is so sad. But the timing also so strange that he had just had that hard landing. He did an interview with one of the celebrity gossip sites and talked about, oh, I have a hard head. And then that night he dies.
ROBERTS: Yes, it's just incredible.
Very often the first sign you have heart disease is when you die. So it happens to thousands of people every day.
CHETRY: That's why they call it the silent killer.
Still ahead, we're going to talk about going from Park Avenue luxury to a federal prison. How drastic is life going to be changing for Bernie Madoff?
We're joined by Larry Levine. He's a former federal inmate, and he now consults those are going to do time for white-collar crime.
It's 55 minutes after the hour.
CHETRY: Good morning, Chicago. It's almost 7:00 for you guys. Right now, 62 degrees, fair, you've got a chance of showers going up in to a high of 69.
President Obama got elected with a big boost from Latino voters. But Hispanic leaders are now demanding that he make good on a campaign promise to overhaul immigration. But some are asking, doesn't he have enough on his plate? Our Jim Acosta shows us why this group says make room.
ACOSTA: John and Kiran, President Obama got elected with a huge boost from Latino voters. Now some Hispanic leaders are demanding that the president made good on a campaign pledge, to take on the politically charged issue of immigration reform.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For a president who some Americans say is taking on too much at the same time, add one of the touchiest subjects of them all, immigration.
OBAMA: I think the American people are ready for us to do something. But it's going to require some heavy lifting.
ACOSTA: Sitting next to his old rival, John McCain, the president called on Republicans and Democrats to get the conversation started on what to do with the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the shadows.
The president supports a plan that would allow undocumented workers to stay in the country so long as they pay a fine, back taxes, and go to the end of the line for citizenship.
But both sides in Congress know that won't be easy after watching immigration reform go down in flames before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got one more chance to do this. If we fail this time around, no politician's going to take this up in a generation. That would be a shame for the country
ACOSTA: This time there's added pressure from Latino leaders, like Democrat Luis Gutierrez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are all originals.
ACOSTA: He brought to the White House thousands of signatures from voters who want a bill passed, something candidate Obama promised during the election, which turned in large part on the Hispanic vote.
OBAMA: And I will make it a top priority in my first year as president of the United States of America.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, (D) ILLINOIS: There was an increased participation of Latino voters, and one of the key issues was immigration. The president has to keep his word. He made a commitment to a community of people. That's the way our political system works.
ACOSTA: But immigration critics say a recession is no time to offer leniency, or as they call it, amnesty to the undocumented.
ROY BECK, NUMBER, USA: Every member of Congress who knows they're going to be in a competitive race next year is thinking, how will I answer the question of why I voted to give permanent work permits to 8 million illegal foreign workers while 14 million unemployed Americans can't find a job?
ACOSTA: Which is why both sides of this debate agree on one thing -- if immigration reform is going to be passed, it has to happen this year before next year's midterm elections.
As one Republican Hispanic leader put it, this is one issue that's very difficult during an election -- John and Kiran?
CHETRY: Jim Acosta for us. Thanks.
Also one programming note, coming up in October, CNN is going to be presenting "Latino in America." It's a comprehensive look at how Latinos are changing America, reshaping politics, businesses, schools, churches and neighborhood.