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American Morning

Madoff Sentenced to 150 Years; Child Pulled from Wreckage; Iraq Security Forces Take Control of Cities in Iraq; Michael Jackson's Tribute in Apollo Theater; Supreme Court Rules for White Firefighters

Aired June 30, 2009 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, once again. 8:00 here in New York on this Tuesday, June 30th.

I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you, I'm John Roberts.

Here's what's on this morning's agenda. The stories that we'll be breaking down for you in the next fifteen minutes.

Iraqi forces have assumed formal control of security in Baghdad and other Iraqi cities. About 130,000 U.S. troops still remain in the country, though. The government declaring today National Sovereignty Day. We're live in Baghdad just ahead.

CHETRY: Also, Wall Street swindler Bernard Madoff sentenced to 150 years in prison for an investment scam that spanned more than 20 years and cheated thousands of people out of their money, including famous names like Steven Spielberg, Kevin Bacon and Zsa Zsa Gabor.

Also the Associate Press is reporting that at least ten more people could be charged by the time this investigation is complete.

ROBERTS: This morning, Michael Jackson's parents moving quickly to take control of his children and his estate. In the meantime, investigators went to the singer's rented home and removed medication.

We're following the breaking news this morning. One child has been rescued alive from the wreckage of a plane crash off of southeastern Africa. Officials say Yemenia Flight 626 was headed from Yemen's capital to the Island Nation of Comoros when it crashed. At least 153 people were on board the airbus jet. An immigration officer told the Associated Press that three bodies have been recovered along with debris, but no other survivors had been found at this point.

Earlier we spoke with an airbus expert who says this is not the first time that a small child has survived this kind of accident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. JOHN COX, AIRBUS EXPERT (via telephone): We know so little about the Yemenia flight at this point. I'm saddened, of course, to hear of the loss of everyone else on board, but you know, there have been cases if you look back at the Detroit accident some years ago, Northwest 255, the only survivor was about a 2-year-old little girl. So this has come up before. And it's where the toddler was seated and the impact forces that allowed them to survive. It's a miracle, and I'm glad for the toddler's sake. I'm just saddened for the loss of everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: And this crash, probably more concerns about the safety of airbus aircraft. Here's more for you in an A.M. Extra.

Since 2001, airbus aircrafts have been involved in three of the four deadliest commercial air disasters in the world. The Yemenia airbus 310 that went down had more than 150 people on board. Miraculously, a 5-year-old child survived the crash. On June the 1st, if you remember, just about a month ago, an Air France airbus A-330 crashed off the coast of Brazil believed to have killed all 228 people on board. And in November of 2001, American Airlines airbus, an American Airline airbus A-300 went down in Queens, New York shortly after taking off from JFK, that left 265 people dead.

CHETRY: And turning to a developing story in Iraq. Today was marked with celebrations and fireworks as U.S. forces turned over control of Iraq cities and towns to the country's security forces. Iraq's naming today a national holiday, Sovereignty Day. U.S. troops have been slowly moving out for several months. Most were actually gone before this past weekend.

Our Michael Ware is tracking things live in Baghdad this weekend. And, you know, when we say gone, I mean, they've pulled back you know the forward operating bases. But they're still very much in that country to the tune of more than 130,000.

So what really besides being an occasion that's being marked today formally does this mean?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, it does mean a lot, Kiran. I mean, we can't neglect the symbolic importance. And from there has come the outpouring of jubilation from Iraqis as I've been hearing time and time again in the last few days, "Iraq for Iraqis."

I mean, you can't devalue that. This is strong sense of nationalism here that well intended or not, the celebrating people here feel that a foreign occupation has finally come to an end.

Now, what it also means, and this is the most pivotal part is that I'm standing here in Iraq where I've been since the invasion began, you know, the invasion in March 2003, and for the first time, today, this is not a U.S.-led war.

The American phase of the war, the American command of the war is over. This is now Iraq's war. Now that means a lot for the Iraqi people and their government. It's up to them now to try and stem the flow of almost ceaseless attacks and also to keep the warring factions apart and return to the blood bath of civil war. It also means that this 130,000 body of U.S. combat troops now take a supporting role. General Odierno who is the American commander here on the ground is no longer running the military show. He's been doing it in partnership up until now. Now, he is here at the behest of the Iraqi government. U.S. troops cannot operate in the main combat areas or what have been the main combat areas, which is the cities and the towns without having to go and ask for permission from the Iraqi governments, or accepting an invitation from the Iraqi government. American forces can't even go out and detain an enemy combatant who they believe are killing American troops today, tomorrow, the next day, without going to the Iraqi government.

So the Iraqis have the whip hand and the Americans have to take the backseat. That's the most important part.

Kiran?

CHETRY: Michael Ware for us in Baghdad this morning, putting it into perspective.

Thanks so much.

ROBERTS: This morning, a potential legal battle is brewing over the fate of Michael Jackson's three children. A judge yesterday granted Michael Jackson's 79-year-old mother, Katherine, temporary custody.

And this morning, funeral plans for Jackson are on hold. The singer's father saying he is going to wait for the results from the private autopsy before burying his son.

Investigators also want to Jackson's rented home yesterday and removed more materials said to be medication.

And in just a few hours, the doors of the Apollo Theater in Harlem, New York, will open for fans to celebrate Jackson's life.

That's where CNN's Stephanie Elam is live this morning.

What's the scene up there right now, Steph?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. Well at this point, there are about 50 to 70 people who are already gathered here. This early in the morning when the doors don't open to the Apollo until 2:00 Eastern Time. At that point, they'll be able to file in, go ahead and live their tribute. There will be a montage video there, as well, also saluting Michael Jackson. The Reverend Al Sharpton will also recognize the moment of his exact passing at 5:26 p.m. Eastern Time. They'll hold a moment of silence and prayer for Michael Jackson and his family at that time.

It's also interesting to note that the last time Michael Jackson actually performed at the Apollo Theater was when he was 9 years old. And at that point, he and the Jackson 5 were opening up for James Brown. And the last time we saw a memorial of this size -- this one even expected to be larger -- was for James Brown himself. So from the Godfather of Soul to the King of Pop, Apollo is holding its place as a very large part of American music history, John.

ROBERTS: You know, Stephanie, thousands of people are expected to be up there in Harlem today. The Apollo Theater doesn't hold that many people.

How many are going to be able to get inside?

ELAM: I know. For anyone who has watched the Apollo Theater, seen it on TV, it looks a lot larger on TV than it actually is in real life. So their plan is to file through people, 600 people at a time from 2:00 to 8:00. The last group of people will go in at 8:00 Eastern Time this evening. At that point, they'll be able to leave their messages, watch the video and then keep proceeding on. But they do expect this service to be larger than what was seen when we saw James Brown here.

So, obviously, at this point, it's still a wait and see to see how many people actually do show up.

John?

ROBERTS: Yes. That's a great idea, allowing people to rotate like that. Give everybody a chance to see him.

Stephanie Elam for us, up there in Harlem this morning.

Steph, thanks so much for that.

CHETRY: Well, he's going to be going from Park Avenue Luxury to a federal penitentiary. So how drastically is life changing for Bernard Madoff?

Joining us right after the break is Larry Levine. He's a Wall Street prison consultant and a former federal inmate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: All right. If you peer through the haze on this summer morning in New York, it's -- that's Central Park. 75 degrees right now. Looking at some isolated thunderstorms in the latter part of the day. 80 degrees for a high here in New York City.

Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Twelve minutes past the hour.

We have more in a developing story this morning. Going from a Park Avenue luxury apartment to a federal prison. It's going to be quite a change for Bernard Madoff. He was sentenced as we know yesterday to 150 years in prison. So what's life going to be like for him?

And he's in his 70s. And he'll be spending the rest of his life behind bars. Our next guest Larry Levine served ten years in federal prison. He now is a consultant for white-collar criminals preparing to go behind bars.

Larry, this is so interesting. I mean, you knew this was a big industry. You know, the consulting. What do you sort of fill people in on as they get ready to go to prison?

LARRY LEVINE, FOUNDER, WALL STREET PRISON CONSULTANTS: Well, I do damage control. Once the judge slams down the gavel and sentences you, the lawyer has no idea what's going to happen. So I prepare people for going into custody.

I teach them everything they need to know from the time they go in until they get out. And if they get into a jam while they're on the inside, their families can get a hold of me and we can straighten things out.

Now in Madoff's case, he doesn't have an out date, 150 years from now. So he really has nothing to look forward to. I see them possibly putting him on suicide watch and/or protective custody because people are going to want to get to him.

You know, on a lighter side, he will get about 19-1/2 years off on good time. They will give him that even though it will never apply.

CHETRY: So the interesting thing is, in one way you're saying that, you know, having that hope that perhaps there's an appeal or perhaps you can get out or perhaps, you know, you do well, he doesn't have that you're saying?

LEVINE: Well, OK. You have to approve -- you have to prove that the judge abused his discretion by sentencing him to 150 years. Well, Madoff's off the charts as far as the dollar loss. In the U.S. sentencing guidelines, they could have given him 200 years, although it wouldn't really make a difference. And the judge had the latitude to do that. So an appeal really is going to go nowhere.

CHETRY: All right. So --

LEVINE: I mean, you got this --

CHETRY: I got you. So let's put that off to the side for a second. I want to ask you, what's daily life going to be like for Bernard Madoff as he gets to serve his time in a federal penitentiary?

LEVINE: Well, he was in a detention center. MCC is there just to serve the court. He's had a little taste of custody. But now, he's going to be living in a cell, which is going to be his permanent home. And this man who lived in a penthouse for years is going to be living basically out of a 2 foot by 4 foot wall locker. That's where all his personal items are going to be stored. And he's going to be subject to being counted several times a day, possibly strip searched. He's not going to have any privacy, and he's probably going to be terrified for his life, because people are going to want to get to him.

CHETRY: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

LEVINE: It's not -- go ahead.

CHETRY: Right. Let me just ask you about that.

Is it different? I mean, is he going to be among "hardened criminals" quote unquote? Is he going to be serving with other people who committed non-violent crimes, you know, of using the combat filing getting white collar.

LEVINE: OK, I did a custody -- I did a custody classification score on him using the Bureau of Persons BP337 and 338.

He really should be in a camp. He really should be in minimum custody. But the problem is, again, the dollar loss. Because of his dollar loss, they're putting a management variable on him. He's going to go to a medium. And he's going to come in contact with people that are bank robbers, killers, rapists, gang members. He's going to be in an extremely dangerous environment, and he's going to be serving time with other people that have life sentences. And those people, they don't have an outdate either.

So if things jump off, they're not going to hesitate to do something to Bernie. They don't care. What can you possibly do to somebody who is serving a life that's not getting out anyway? Nothing.

CHETRY: You know, they would put him in the same prison as rapists, killers, and others?

LEVINE: It's the custody level. It's a medium custody. Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

CHETRY: Rapist and killers are in the medium security?

LEVINE: Well, they work their way down, absolutely. They go from, let say, a United States penitentiary, which is a high to medium custody, yes.

I saw them when I was in the medium in Phoenix. You have people serving life sentences there. I had two cell mates, one of them -- he robbed an armored car up in Washington. I think it was in the late '80s and killed one of the armored car guards. So, yes, these are dangerous people and you got a lot of racists there, white power Arian brotherhood in these institutions. And Bernie being Jewish -- well, I'm Jewish myself, but Bernie is not going to be real popular. He's not going to have any friends.

CHETRY: And let me ask you this, what were you in there for? LEVINE: Narcotics trafficking, securities fraud, racketeering, obstruction of justice and machine guns. My whole case was organized crime.

CHETRY: And how busy are you as a consultant for people prepping to go?

LEVINE: My phone rings off the hook. Everybody has a problem, everyone has a question. Some people I can help, some people I can't. Now, I had Madoff's reps get a hold of me before he went into custody, and I turned them down. I wouldn't help the guy out because I view him as an economic terrorist.

If you rip off a bank and insurance company and institution, that's unacceptable crime. Bernie hurt people. He hurt people individually. And I refuse to help people like that. Let him rot in hell.

CHETRY: Well, listen, you're certainly a colorful character. It was great to have you on this morning, and getting your perspective is very unique.

LEVINE: Glad to be here with you.

CHETRY: Thanks for being with us.

Larry Levine, founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants, and a former federal inmate.

Eighteen minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Good morning to Washington where it's an absolutely beautiful day, 72 degrees right now. Later on today, it's going to be mostly sunny with a high of 85.

How about that Larry Levine?

CHETRY: We're still -- we're still really enjoying what he had to say this morning.

ROBERTS: Rip off a bank, a trust company, that's unacceptable crime.

CHETRY: Right.

ROBERTS: Thank you, Larry.

CHETRY: The scariest part about it because he said his phone is ringing off the hook, you know?

ROBERTS: And if Larry ever calls, pick up the phone.

Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. The Supreme Court ruling in favor of 20 firefighters from New Haven, Connecticut. It was a 5-4 decision in the so-called reverse discrimination case. It overturns a ruling by President Obama's Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor. Our Mary Snow tracking that story for us this morning.

Everybody's got an opinion on this opinion.

MARY SNOW, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT: Everybody does. And a lot of reaction yesterday in New Haven. After a five-year legal battle and their promotions in limbo, these firefighters are relieved and they expect their fight and the court ruling will have a wide- ranging impact.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was worth it, every minute of it, right, guys?

CROWD: Yes.

SNOW (voice over): The so-called "New Haven 20" celebrated the Supreme Court ruling in their favor. The plaintiff Frank Ricci says he feels vindicated for suing the city for discrimination after he was denied promotion. The city ditched the results of an exam for captains and lieutenants because no African-American would've been promoted.

FRANK RICCI, NEW HAVEN FIREFIGHTER: This is just proof positive that people should be treated as individuals and not statistics and that won out at the Supreme Court today.

SNOW: The city said it threw out the results for fear of being sued by minorities. But in a 5-4 decision, Justice Anthony Kennedy said, "The fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a dissenter who called the court's majority ruling "troubling," adding "relying so heavily on pencil and paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice."

New Haven's mayor says he can understand firefighters on both sides of this issue, but he adds...

MAYOR JOHN DESTEFANO, NEW HAVEN: It's a continual erosion of civil rights law by the Supreme Court.

SNOW: The city viewed the tests as flawed after they had already been conducted. A group of minority firefighters advocated using a system that would take into effect life and communication skills, not just written tests and it considers the high court's ruling a big blow.

LT. GARY TINNEY, NEW HAVEN FIREFIGHTER: It's going to set us back 45 years, this decision, in the hiring practice. SNOW: Ben Vargas is the lone Hispanic member of the New Haven 20. How does he respond to those who say the test wasn't fair?

BNE VARGAS, NEW HAVEN FIREFIGHTER: What I say to them is study hard because we won this and this is not only for us, but it was for them, as well, for the entire country, not only in the fire service and the police service and all public service. This is going to help everyone out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: The court made almost no mention of the previous ruling in the federal appeals court written by Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor. The justices did not criticize her for not issuing a full opinion in the case. That's something her critics are now pointing out and targeting.

ROBERTS: Yes and I guess the big question now is how wide ranging an impact is this decision going to have?

SNOW: And you know, just talking to a number of legal experts yesterday, they really are a little bit confused about where to go from here. Of course, this is going to be the precedent for many legal battles in workplaces, both public and private. But just exactly how this is going to play out in workplaces is still a bit confusing.

ROBERTS: It's that old cliche, wait and see. Mary Snow, thanks so much for that.

SNOW: Sure.

CHETRY: And still ahead, going to church armed. One pastor says bring your guns, come on and hear the sermon. We'll tell you why. And he's facing pushback from a lot of places.

It's 24 minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.

The battle to control Michael Jackson's fortune and also who gets custody of his three children beginning. There are reports that Jackson did leave a will. This comes as investigators find more medication in Jackson's rented house. CNN's Ted Rowlands is live in Encino, California following the latest developments.

And what about this investigation? We're hearing the LAPD is now interviewing doctors. What can you tell us about that?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kiran. It makes sense. Reportedly, the LAPD is sort of widening its net, if you will, in terms of bringing other doctors in. They talked to Conrad Murray, the doctor that was with Michael Jackson when he died. Now they want to talk to other doctors who may have prescribed Michael Jackson with medication leading up to his death.

Obviously, after the toxicology results come in, they'll say, here's what's in this guy's body and now who prescribed it and why? Part of the ongoing investigation, which they are still saying is not a criminal investigation by any stretch of the name, just a death investigation. They brought two bags worth of what they're calling medical evidence out of the house where Jackson stopped breathing yesterday afternoon. Clearly, the investigation continues.

CHETRY: And also, Michael Jackson's mom Katherine, she is getting temporary custody of his three children right now. What about the biological mother of at least two of his kids, Debbie Rowe?

ROWLANDS: Well, that's the big question. Will Debbie Rowe insert herself into this battle for custody of the kids? Katherine Jackson, as you said, was given temporary custody, but they have set a hearing for (OFF-MIKE)

CHETRY: Custody battle stands. Who will be helping raise Michael Jackson's three children that he's left behind?

ROBERTS: Now, Erica Hill's got a look at that coming right up.

Meantime, it's about 20-1/2 minutes after the hour.

We're tracking breaking news this morning. A 5-year-old child was pulled alive from the wreckage of a crashed airliner in the Indian Ocean this morning. Officials say Yemenia's Flight 626 went down during bad weather and heavy winds near the island-nation of Comoros. That is off of the northwestern coast of Madagascar.

An immigration official told the Associated Press that three other bodies have been recovered, but only the young child has been found alive so far. Meantime, an EU official says safety specialists will look into whether Yemenia Air should be banned from flying to Europe.

CHETRY: And new information this morning on the sudden death of TV's most recognizable pitch man Billy Mays. A medical examiner in Florida said Mays had heart disease. Mays said he was hit on the head during a hard landing on a U.S Airways flight. That was just hours before he died, but that will likely be ruled out as the cause.

ROBERTS: Search teams are back inside a parking garage that collapsed in Atlanta, crushing some 35 cars. Sections of about four floors went down around lunchtime yesterday in Atlanta's busy Midtown area. So far, there are no reports of any injuries from the collapse.

CHETRY: Well, Ford's saying that the worst is behind us and pumping out new cars. The company announced it just had its best sales month of the year and it plans to boost car production by 16 percent. Ford, you may remember, was the only one of the, quote, "Big Three" American auto makers that did not file for bankruptcy this year and also did not have to take any bailout money.

ROBERTS: Right. You may not think that God and guns go together, but a pastor in Kentucky certainly does. He's encouraging his congregation to embrace their Second Amendment rights by coming to church armed. On Saturday, he sponsored an open carry celebration at his church. And joining me now from Louisville, Kentucky to talk more about this is Pastor Ken Pagano.

Pastor, it's good to talk to you this morning. A question a lot of people might have, I know I certainly have it, what do God and guns have in common?

PASTOR KEN PAGANO, NEW BETHEL CHURCH, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY: Well, the idea that a deep-seated belief in God and an appreciation for firearms, which was the basis for the founding of this country who was also settled by very religious people evidently has not -- has historical precedence for not being incongruous. And we also agree with the same that -- go ahead.

ROBERTS: But the question is, do guns belong in church? Even back in the frontier days, there were many churches that said to people, leave your weapons outside. No firearms inside the church.

PAGANO: There were also many churches that said you can have them. There are still congregational buildings in New England that go back to the colonial eras where there are actually gun racks that are there.

It was also mandated that you had to bring your firearm with you with ammunition when you went to church. If not, you would have been fined.

So this is not something new. It's new in our generation, but it's not a new concept at all.

We're trying to promote responsible gun ownership, that there are community-minded, legal, law-abiding citizens such as myself and others who appreciate firearms as a sports tool, but also believe in the right for self-defense and self-protection.

ROBERTS: Yes.

PAGANO: Church is not a building. A church is a gathering of people. People have the right to defend themselves wherever they are.

ROBERTS: Pastor, I was doing a lot of looking around this morning at the reaction to the event that you had on Saturday night, and some of the critics were asking things like, would Jesus carry a weapon? And what would Jesus think of a pastor who beat plow shares into swords?

PAGANO: Here's the thing, now, because of my theological perception, I believe that one day Christ will return to establish his government here on this earth, and at that time we will beat our swords into plow shares.

But until then, those who only have plow shares will always be subjected to those who have the swords.

What would Jesus carry? That's kind of a tongue in cheek thing, but we do know this, we do know that his disciples, who were his close entourage, we do know that there were two in the bunch that were carrying swords. He wasn't opposed to them carrying swords. As a matter of fact, there was another time when he told them to sell a cloak and buy a sword.

What he was opposed to was the inappropriate use of the sword, which was to keep him from going to the cross to die for the sins of the world.

ROBERTS: Pastor, you're kind of getting it from all sides this morning. You had the critics who said, again, would Jesus had carried a weapon?

But you've got critics among gun advocates who say the fact that you stipulated that people had to bring their weapons into church unloaded, and the only loaded weapon belonged to a police officer, kind of rankles them.

And David Cadrea (ph), who's a gun rights advocate writing on theexaminer.com says, quote, "The idea that police are the only ones who can be entrusted with loaded firearms should be offensive to everyone who believes in the right of the people to keep and bear arms."

So everybody's kind of ganging up on you on the right and left.

PAGANO: But here's the thing -- the truth shall set you free. And if people knew the truth of what was going on, the open carry celebration, the reason for open carry was mainly insurance reasons.

While I am a firearms instructor, I work with the police, I'm a competitive sports shooter, not everyone who owns a firearm is necessarily always responsible or safe with them.

I didn't know everybody who came to the celebration. There were people who were carrying loaded firearms who were not law enforcement. There were people who were legally carrying concealed weapons that were hot and ready to go. We don't have a problem with that.

Just because a person owns a firearm doesn't mean they're safe or responsible anymore than a person owning a vehicle means they're a safe or responsible driver.

ROBERTS: There's also the bigger issue too of guns in church just generally here. There have been several high profile shootings in church recently.

One of the attendees to your open carry celebration on Saturday night, Tommy Hillerick, told the "New York Times," quote, "If the pastor is in there and he's got a concealed weapon, and somebody comes in and starts shooting people, he can take him out. That's his right."

Do you think it would be a good idea for pastors to carry weapons?

PAGANO: Absolutely. They're shepherds. When a person comes into my congregation, they are my responsibility, not only spiritually, but physically. That is, Jesus called himself the great shepherd, and according to the 23rd psalm, the shepherd has a staff for direction and a rod for protection.

ROBERTS: So Pastor, do you carry a concealed weapon on Sundays?

PAGANO: I couldn't tell you that because that would negate the idea of carrying a concealed.

ROBERTS: All right.

PAGANO: You would leave me at a tactical disadvantage.

Contact Gary Moskowitz (ph) there in New York City, who is a rabbi who is promoting a national security council of religious leaders wanting to deceive (ph) this very type of legislation.

Listen, I've gotten phone calls from people from Israel and other parts of the world, and they're saying, you know what, we've been trying to say this all along. Our military personnel have to attend chapel services with their firearms.

While we are in a civilized world, we have a lot of uncivilized people, and America's no different.

ROBERTS: Well, it is a controversial yet fascinating topic to discuss.

Pastor Ken Pagano of the New Bethel Church in Louisville, thanks for being with us this morning. Good to talk to you.

PAGANO: Thank you for your professionalism.

ROBERTS: It's 35 minutes after the hour now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Some provocative guests that we've had this morning. You can imagine that they're going to be in the top videos on CNN.com over the coming days.

But some of the top videos right now on CNN.com, a suspect on the run in Dallas, Texas, leads police on a wild chase. This one had an amazing ending, and ultimately ended in a violent crash. Bam, look at that. It was T-boned by a pickup truck.

The suspect pulls into the intersection, gets slammed by the pickup truck. His injuries weren't life threatening. They did need to use the jaws of life, though, to get him out of the car. He was taken into custody.

And the other driver walked away a little bit stunned, but OK.

CHETRY: My daughter, who is only three, saw that video and said "Did he hit a stop sign, momma?" No, that's just the beginning.

ROBERTS: That's pickup truck definitely had a stop sign on the front of it.

Also, this man says he got the wrong change at a McDonald's drive through and wanted police to do something about it. So he did what anyone would do in an emergency situation. He called 911 not once, but twice.

An officer arrived at the scene and arrested the man for misuse of 911.

CHETRY: Brilliant.

ROBERTS: Sometimes you've just got to let it go.

And these odd-looking clouds appeared over New York last Friday after a storm hit. New Yorkers staring skyward, wondering if maybe they were signs of aliens or the apocalypse.

It was "Independence Day," right, where the weird clouds came with the spaceship in the middle?

CHETRY: And it's almost July 4th.

ROBERTS: Turns out, though, that all the clouds made for was just a cool snapshot.

CHETRY: Pretty neat, though.

More on our developing story right now, as the world waits for word on what ultimately killed Michael Jackson. The pop star's mother Katherine Jackson has been granted temporary guardianship of his three children. But who will get them permanently? And where will Jackson's three and up?

CNN's Erica Hill is taking a look at who else could enter that custody fight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael Jackson's three children will stay with their grandparents, at least for now. Katherine Jackson's petition for temporary guardianship filed and quickly granted.

ROBERT KESSLER, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: The best thing the court can do is maintain the status quo. So by maintaining the status quo, you're going to keep stability for the children, and the secondary benefit is that you give a little test tube period for the judge to be able to look at it later and say, OK, that temporary arrangement seems to be working.

HILL: The children, seen here in happier times with their father in photos obtained by tmz.com, are doing well according to grandfather Joe Jackson, and enjoy being around so many other children their own age.

JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: They have with the kids they're around. They were never around other kids. But they're happy.

HILL: In her petition, Mrs. Jackson said the children have a long established relationship with her and are comfortable in her care. The petition also claims the oldest children, 12-year-old Michael and 11-year-old Paris, have, quote, "No relationship with their biological mother."

JOE JACKSON: Debbie Rowe has nothing to do with what we're doing.

HILL: But what if Debbie Rowe decides she does want custody of her children? Rowe will be invited to next Monday's custody hearing. Family law attorney Randy Kessler represents a number of celebrity clients.

KESSLER: Biological parents are always first in line. In this case, the kids are not already with the biological parent, so you don't have that issue. If the biological parent does step forward, then there might be a fight. But so far, good news for the Jackson family.

HILL: The mother of seven-year-old Prince Michael, who was delivered via surrogate, is not identified in Monday's court filing.

HILL (on camera): All three children do reportedly have a very close relationship with their longtime nanny Grace Muromba. Joe Jackson calls her a good friend of the family.

But according to her friend, Monica Chopra (ph), Muromba has no intention of seeking custody. In fact, Chopra (ph) writes on her blog the caregiver, quote, "firmly hopes the Jackson family is granted custody of all three children," and says she'll be there for them whenever they need or want her.

KESSLER: You know, unless somebody contests it, it's open and shut. You've got children that are wanted and loved and cared for and financially secure. This should be about the easiest type of case that comes before this judge.

HILL (voice-over): A surprisingly simple ending to a chapter many expected would be as complicated as the man these children called dad.

Erica Hill, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Boy the tentacles of this story just go so many different directions, don't they? Now, of course, there will be the big battle over whether this will from 2002 was valid and who gets the money?

CHETRY: Right, and reportedly in that will --

ROBERTS: Everybody is sort of hovering.

CHETRY: And he wanted to leave it to his mom, to his three kids, and to some charities, not his dad.

ROBERTS: Yes, which seemed to want to shut Joe Jackson out. Of course, Michael Jackson complained for a long time about the abuse that he suffered at the hands of his father, and many people believe that's why he was the way he was.

CHETRY: Deepak Chopra telling that to Anderson last night, as well.

Its' 43 minutes till the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You want to cool off? You've heard of heli-skiing. How about heli-fishing? This guy Matt Watson doing a little fishing, looking for a marlin. Setting it up.

And right on to the marlin. And he wrestles it to the applause and cheers of his mates.

Rob, that's amazing, it's unbelievable. How did he do it? Look, he leaps out of the helicopter.

(CROSSTALK)

Roll that back. Roll that back, one more time.

(CROSSTALK)

Can we roll it again? Can we, huh?

ROBERTS:: Explaining his way away here. We said earlier this was a new take on fly fishing, Rob.

MARCIANO: I like that.

ROBERTS: All right, well, there happens to be camera there as he dives off and oh, cut, shot, under the water.

Suspicious, Rob, what do you think?

MARCIANO: Of course it's suspicious, but we're rolling it.

CHETRY: I don't think he actually caught that huge fish.

MARCIANO: I don't -- even if he just jumps out of a boat to jump on that fish, that's pretty -- that takes some, yes.

ROBERTS: How did there happen to be a camera right there with the marlin right in front of it, and the marlin wasn't spooked and just happened to be in exactly the place that the helicopter pulled up to? These are the questions we ask as hard-hitting journalists.

MARCIANO: The marlin was fed something suspicious.

CHETRY: It makes me also wonder, was that cat really playing the keyboard?

ROBERTS: It's still a lot of fun though, Rob, thanks so much for sharing.

MARCIANO: All right guys, see you.

CHETRY: It's 49 minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: It's 51 minutes past the hour right now.

More and more people are turning to alternative practices and medicines to stay healthy. They use acupuncture, massage, supplements. But do these things really work?

Well, it depends on who you ask. So to get expert advice, we're paging our Dr. Gupta. Sanjay's looking into what works and what doesn't.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Aliya Wade became interested in energy medicine after her mother died of breast cancer.

ALIYA WADE, USED ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES FOR CANCER: Within a two to two-and-a-half year period, she went from being diagnosed to being gone. It was in and out of surgeries, tried the chemo, tried everything the conventional way. And it didn't work.

GUPTA: Years later, when she got her own breast cancer diagnosis, Wade thought conventional therapy was simply not enough.

Now, she's not alone. Alternative medicine is becoming mainstream. In fact, nearly 40 percent of U.S. adults are now using alternative therapies either alone or in conjunction with conventional medicine.

Some say they do so because they are dissatisfied with mainstream care. Many, like Wade, crave more holistic approaches to disease.

DR. BRENT BAUER, MAYO CLINIC: What most patients are looking for is something they can do for themselves, bringing other things to the table to kind of round out the care that they're receiving.

GUPTA: Wade combined chemotherapy with supplements and herbs, hypnotherapy, and a technique to stimulate energy called Reiki. Her hands moving flow across her body to free up blocked energy, which some believe spawns disease.

WADE: If there are any blockages, they're gone by the time I'm finished.

GUPTA: Yoga, acupuncture, massage, all of them are clinically studied. But therapies like Reiki, while useful, are difficult to study.

DR. ROBERTA LEE, INTEGRATIVE MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: It's much harder to make some kind of scientific meaning out of whether an energy treatment is going to be useful or not.

GUPTA: Also difficult, assessing the value of supplements, vitamins and herbs that have not been proven to work.

BAUER: Unfortunately, you've got this sort of mythology because herbs are natural, therefore they're safer than pharmaceutical drugs.

Any herb that's strong enough to have benefits, and many of them do, are also strong enough to have side effects and can actually cause problems.

GUPTA: Wade says Reiki and hypnotherapy alleviated her fears, in some ways just as useful as chemo for shrinking her tumors.

WADE: When you're dealing with a potentially life-threatening disease, my opinion is, what do you have to lose?

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Everybody's on Facebook, everybody's on Twitter, everybody has a MySpace page, everybody social networking, right?

CHETRY: Not everybody.

ROBERTS: Not everybody apparently.

CHETRY: It's not just the technophobes that are -- it's people who think it's over-sharing, TMI. I don't need to know that you enjoyed your sandwich today or what you're doing at this exact second if it includes brushing your teeth or taking a shower.

ROBERTS: Our Christine Romans found the three people who aren't on twitter, and she'll show them to us coming up next.

Is 54 minutes after the hour.

CHETRY: More than three.

ROBERTS: Maybe four.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: You might say they are an endangered species, folks who could care less about twitters, tweets, and pokes. They're the last of the social network pulled outs, and they're darn proud of it. Christine Romans is here with their story. Who are these four people?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: There are more than four. There are like 146 million people who did not visit a social networking site.

ROBERTS: No, can't be.

ROMANS: And you know what, some of them are making a statement John and Kiran. They're making a statement, saying they're holding themselves above the fray. They're going to use the phone, they're going to use email, they're going to talk to people. Meet the holdouts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: Mark McSherry does not want to be your friend -- on the computer, that is. This college professor doesn't tweet and he doesn't do Facebook.

MARK MCSHERRY, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And if I ever do, find me and, you know, tell me off.

ROMANS: He's worried his students are sharing too much personal information.

MCSHERRY: I'm just an old-timer warning people that your behavior in the past really can come back to haunt you. A picture can tell too much, you know, what you're wearing, what you're not wearing, a tattoo.

ROMANS: Before we go any further, an online primer -- twitter burps out your thoughts in 140 character or less messages to people who follow you. Facebook and MySpace and others are ways to share pictures and messages with friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not use them, it's not of my generation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've heard more than one story on Facebook of people's sites being commandeered by somebody else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I plan on doing it, but when do I have time?

ROMANS: "Harper's" senior editor Bill Wasik wrote a book about viral culture.

BILL WASIK, AUTHOR, "AND THEN THERE'S THIS": For some of them, it's a feeling of information overload, and for another group of people, it's more of just a feeling of wanting to hold yourself above the kind of conversation.

ROMANS: Zac Efron and Jennifer Aniston don't do Facebook. You won't find Kanye West on twitter after he said someone tweeted under his name. But Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore, they have made twitter more famous, and vice versa. And it's how Lance Armstrong announced his baby's birth.

WASIK: Facebook and twitter are both sites for over-sharers, you know. Even if you're thinking that the fact that you're eating a delicious sandwich is interesting to you, it takes that lot of chutzpah to feel like it's going to be interesting to other people.

ROMANS: Still the phenomenon is undeniable -- an estimated 13.9 billion minutes spent on Facebook along in April, and we're not talking kids. The fastest growing group is 35 and older.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right, 35 and older. Some will dismiss these holdouts as technophobes living off the grid. Not true, says Wasik, the author in our piece. It's better to think of them as a kind of people who have an unlisted telephone number, who value their privacy and their time, and they're going to watch this thread develop before they --

CHETRY: And one of our twitterers, or people who follow us on twitter pointed out, even an unlisted phone number is not really private anymore because you can go online and pay for somebody's information. You can get anything about them.

ROMANS: What I think is so interesting is the people who are trying to make a statement on this. And I've met a lot of these people in my reporting who'll say no, no, I'm not going to join the conversation on Facebook because I'm just not going to do that.

There are also some companies of marketing departments, and the legal departments are trying to figure out how to harness this for business development. But they're just not quite where it's going to go.

It's here. It's here. Just how it -- how it keeps moving will be interesting to see.

ROBERTS: By the way, if you want to ring in on this, you can reach us at twitter at amfixcnn.com,

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: Myamfix.com/CNN.

CHETRY: but we also have a good old fashioned phone number too -- what the heck's the phone number?

ROBERTS: 1-877-myam-fix.

ROMANS: You can send us smoke signals.

ROBERTS: Like I always say, why talk to somebody on the phone when you can twitter them, right? CHETRY: We've got to go. But, again, continue that conversation. We like to hear from you.

ROBERTS: Yes.

Right now here's "CNN NEWSROOM" with Betty Nguyen. See you tomorrow.