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Nancy Grace
Jackson and Rowe Said not to Be Biological Parents
Aired June 30, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies. Jackson rushed to the ER after collapsing reportedly in front of his own young son there in a $100,000-a-month rental, Bel-Air. Doctors` desperate attempts to revive Jackson fail, Jackson pronounced dead. Investigators converge on Jackson`s home in the last 24 hours with a search warrant, leaving with bags full of evidence, reportedly drugs.
Stunning details emerge about Jackson`s alleged autopsy report -- pills, needle marks, and a nearly bald head, reports that needle marks everywhere, hips, thighs, shoulder, heart, his body allegedly bearing scars from 13 plastic surgeries, the bridge of his nose collapsed, the king of pop emaciated at 5-10, 112 pounds. In his stomach, nothing but pills. The alleged autopsy report branded a fake.
Jackson collapsed, leaving his estate in utter chaos. Bombshell tonight. Paternity of Jackson`s three children up for grabs. That`s right, sources say Jackson is not the biological father of any of his three children and -- and -- that he never legally adopted them! Hello! This making the battle over the children and the estate even worse. This as a will reportedly surfaces, the music icon leaving everything to his mother, his children, and charities. As grandmother Katherine Jackson takes temporary custody of the three children, reports a bio mom will resurface to seize custody of his multi-million-dollar estate estimated at over $100 billion.
Tonight, questions swirling as police still investigate Jackson`s home and those surrounding him at the time of death, the investigation now openly labeled multi-pronged. After Jackson reveals physical beatings at the hands of his father, are his three beloved children headed back into the same home? Tonight, music icon Michael Jackson dead at 50, the fate of his children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: I`m here to celebrate my son. He was the largest entertainer in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The star left a will drafted in 2002. It reportedly divides the singer`s estate among his mother, Katherine, his three children and charities and nothing -- nothing -- to his father, Joe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve heard Michael Jackson say countless times how Joe abused him.
MICHAEL JACKSON: We were nervous rehearsing because he sat in his chair and he had this belt in his hand. And if you didn`t do it the right way, he would tear you up.
JOE JACKSON: I never beat Michael in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t just the hitting, it was not letting him play with other kids, not letting him get a driver`s license, all of the things he did to restrict him, because to Joe Jackson, Michael Jackson is dollar signs.
JOE JACKSON: As a matter of fact, I developed Michael into what he is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grandmother Katherine Jackson has temporary custody of Michael Jackson`s three beloved children. She couldn`t protect Michael Jackson from the beatings, so why could she protect these three children?
JOE JACKSON: The kids are fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will they be living with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll be living with myself and my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are a family unit. My father will always be connected with the kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you, Michael?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Good. Great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, brother! Thank you so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless you, Michael! Have fun on the tour!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, the desperate search for a 10-year-old Washington girl who vanishes after leaving a little friend`s house. Tonight, the search by land, by air, by water. Where is 10-year-old Lindsey?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just need her to come home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsey Baum`s mother hasn`t seen her little girl in almost three full days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vanished out of thin air, is what it appears to be. There`s nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very frustrating because we are not able to rule anything out because we have no evidence to point us in any specific direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s what detectives have to work with. Ten- year-old Lindsey Baum was last seen walking home from a friend`s house around 9:00 Friday night. She never made it the half mile to her house. Since then, police, volunteers and search dogs have been looking for Lindsey. An Air National Guard helicopter gave crews a bird`s-eye view as searchers retraced the girl`s last known steps. Unless something turns up, police say they need help from anyone who saw anything suspicious in or around McCleary Friday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really important that individuals realize that they may be the one person that saw something that to them was totally worthless, means nothing, but to us, it might be very, very important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: This is the final -- this is the final curtain call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a gentleman here that needs help, and he`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Murray found Mr. Jackson in his bed, unconscious with a faint pulse, not breathing there in his room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t breathing, but he still had a pulse. And that tells us that he had what we call a respiratory arrest first, not a heart attack or his heart stopping first. And that is very consistent with a prescription drug overdose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a serial group of doctors who were a part of Michael Jackson`s life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a cocktail of drugs. I know that there are injection sites in Michael`s body.
GRACE: LAPD and coroner`s investigators converging on Michael Jackson`s home, leaving with bags of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were drugs that were found on the premises.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I make of it is they`re looking for needles, they`re looking for prescription bottles.
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: My brother, the legendary king of pop, Michael Jackson, passed away, but the cause of his death is unknown until results of the autopsy are known.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that really appropriate for a man, a grown man, to be doing that? How do you respond to that?
MICHAEL JACKSON: I feel sorry for them because that`s judging someone who just wants to help people. Wanting to share your bed, that`s the most loving thing to do, is to share your bed with someone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent standing by at Jackson`s parents` home. Susan, tonight reports emerging that the battle over the three children and possibly the billion-dollar estate gets even more murky as we learn Michael Jackson may not be the biological father of any of the three children?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Nancy, I had read a report that Debbie Rowe allegedly, apparently, did with a reporter for a British newspaper, went in depth saying that she knew, according to her, that Michael Jackson was at least not the father of her two kids, the two kids that she bore him. She said she was artificially inseminated, just as she would inseminate horses on her ranch, Nancy. So it could be that, at least in Debbie Rowe`s case, that in those two children`s, that they are not Michael Jackson`s biological children. But we don`t know yet. Haven`t had that confirmed.
GRACE: With us tonight is Ian Drew, editor-at-large with "Us Weekly." He interviewed Michael Jackson. Ian, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me?
IAN DREW, "US WEEKLY": Well, what I can tell you right away is that that interview with "The News of the World" has not only been adamantly disputed by her lawyers on the record, but it was absolutely fabricated. It went against everything that Debbie has ever said when I have interviewed her in the past. There was nothing in that that matched up with anything that she has said.
GRACE: Well, what do we know about whether Jackson is, in fact, the biological father of the three children?
DREW: He`s not the biological father of the three children. There is a world full of sources who have said this now to many outlets, including our own here at "Us Weekly." And it is just absolutely not the case. You look at them, they look nothing like him, or like he would have looked before all of his medical problems and everything that has been very well documented. But not only that, you know, the sources are very accurate. And we, actually, at "Us Weekly" uncovered this week through various sources, multiple sources, who the actual father is.
GRACE: And that would be?
DREW: That would be his long time dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein. We are the first outlet to actually reveal this. A lot of people have known and a lot of people actually have reached out to me today, saying that they also knew about this and were very surprised it never came out earlier.
GRACE: OK. So what about this, Ian? With me, Ian Drew. He is editor-at-large with "Us Weekly." He interviewed Jackson. Ian, so you`re saying we know Jackson is not the bio dad of any of the three children?
DREW: Yes.
GRACE: What about Debbie Rowe?
DREW: Debbie Rowe...
GRACE: Is she the biological mother or was she just a surrogate?
DREW: She is the biological mother. There was actually a false report that came out today that she wasn`t. Her lawyers again fired back, said on the record she is absolutely the biological mother. And from all of my extensive interviews with her, I know that she is. I fully believe her.
GRACE: And what about the third child, Blanket? Is that his real name, Blanket?
DREW: No, no, no. He`s Prince Michael II. That`s really his name. And Prince Michael II was actually conceived via an anonymous surrogate. Some sources deep within Jackson`s camp have told me that it was through the black market. It was just generally done under the table because it couldn`t be done legally and...
GRACE: Well, Ian, I think what you`re saying may very well be correct because I`ve got the birth records right here.
DREW: Yes, I saw those, too.
GRACE: As you say, Prince Michael Jackson II. So he had two kids named the same thing. Whatever. Mother, it says "None," N-O-N-E.
DREW: Exactly. Exactly.
GRACE: So there`s no mother?
DREW: Yes. Exactly. I don`t know how that birth certificate got done that way. I don`t know what the law`s are with that. But from what I have heard in the past from multiple sources, that baby was not conceived in a necessarily legal way. It was not procured by Jackson, shall we say.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of LA. Dr. Oliver, thank you for being with us. Question. Reports have emerged today that Debbie Rowe is not the bio mom, that she was a surrogate. She`s denying that. Even if you`re not the bio mom, do you have some biological claims on the children? Does your blood flow through the children`s veins? Do you support their life in any way? Does she have any biological claim, even if she`s just a surrogate?
DR. HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: No, she wouldn`t have a biological claim as a surrogate. She would have to be the natural mother to share like markers genetically.
GRACE: And to Kara Finnstrom, joining us at Neverland ranch. We understand the body is in an undisclosed secret and location tonight and is headed toward Neverland.
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, what we know is that on Thursday, late in the morning, that body is going to be transported here, back to Neverland, brought, we`re told, by a 30-car motorcade some 130 miles from the Los Angeles area back to the Neverland ranch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you may know, Michael Jackson had custody of all three of those children.
GRACE: And I`m wondering if this means automatically that they go to the biological mother? We know the bio mom of two of them, at least, is former dental hygienist Debbie Rowe, who has given up her parental rights.
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: My kids don`t call me Mom because I don`t want them to. They`re not -- they`re Michael`s children. It`s not that they`re not my children, but I had them because I wanted him to be a father. I believe that there are people who should be parents, and he`s one of them.
DEBRA OPRI, ATTORNEY FOR JOE AND KATHERINE JACKSON: Well, forgive my candor, but this woman is nothing to me but a breeder. She was hired to carry Michael`s children, to bear them and to sell them to him, and that`s what she did.
JOE JACKSON: This is where they belong. We`re the parents and we got other kids of their size. They love those kids and we love those kids, too. We`re going to take care of them and give them the education they`re supposed to have. We can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing Jackson`s famous moonwalk in a 1983 Motown special. Welcome back. Jackson dead at 50, his estate in chaos, this as reports emerge Jackson is not the biological father of any of his three children. Same claims are being made about Debbie Rowe, his onetime wife and the mother of two of the children.
We are taking your calls live. To Jamie in Florida. Hi, Jamie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, I was kind of wondering about the licensed physician who was doing CPR on a bed.
GRACE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody that`s ever taken a CPR course knows you have to do it on a hard surface, otherwise you don`t get enough compression.
GRACE: You`re absolutely correct. That issue has been raised repeatedly, Dr. Oliver. What about it? CPR on a bed?
OLIVER: If you did CPR on a bed, it would have to be -- have a hard surface underneath the body. You can`t get adequate compression without a hard surface underneath the body.
GRACE: Joining me right now at Jackson`s parents` home, Natisha Lance, our producer on the story. Natisha, explain to me where the children are right now. Is Joe Jackson, the grandfather, the father of Michael Jackson, in that home? Does he have access to the home? Do they live there together, he and Mrs. Jackson?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, our understanding, Nancy, is that Katherine Jackson does reside at this home which is behind me, but Joe Jackson actually has a home in Las Vegas where he lives. And actually, on those documents that were released yesterday with the petition for Michael Jackson`s estate, it did not even give an address for Joe Jackson. It said, To be determined. So at this time, it`s hard to say exactly where he is. As we understand it, he does have a home in Las Vegas.
Now, as far as the children, we know that they are with Katherine Jackson. I can`t say for sure if they are in this home right behind me, but we know that she has temporary custody. And on Monday, there is going to be a hearing to decide if she will keep that temporary custody. Debbie Rowe has been invited to come to that hearing, but at this point, so far, she has not expressed any desire to try to get custody of those children.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Jackson family confidant and former lawyer, host of "Insight" with KLAA, Brian Oxman. Brian, also surfacing, reports that Michael Jackson never thought anyone would contest his keeping the children, so he never legally and formally adopted them. Is this true?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT (via telephone): There`s been no adoption proceeding, Nancy. But this is a tempest in a teapot. And the reason it is that way is that these children were born to Michael and Debbie during their marriage. It is conclusively presumed that a child born during marriage to a couple cohabiting together as they were that they then are the parents of the children. After two years of the birth of that child, after the birth of the child, it becomes conclusive that DNA tests can`t rebut the presumption...
GRACE: OK...
OXMAN: ... that claims cannot rebut the presumption.
GRACE: With me is Brian Oxman. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Herb Nast (ph) out of New York, Susan Moss out of New York, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, Carmen St. George out of New York.
Very quickly, to you, Ray Giudice. A presumption is only that...
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right.
GRACE: ... a presumption that can be overcome...
GIUDICE: That`s right.
GRACE: ... with the facts. Now, if he never legally adopted the children and they`re not his bio children, where does it leave it?
GIUDICE: I think it leaves up for a challenge. I think his musical legacy is overshadowed by his legal legacy. Talk about unleashing the lawyers, this is only the beginning. And see Mr. Oxman point`s, but I anticipate a challenge.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We`re taking your calls live. But the search for a missing San Jose toddler, 3-year-old Jade Flores snatched from her foster parents during an unsupervised visit with bio dad. He does not have custody. Jade missing since July, 2008. Look, look at this girl. A felony warrant issued for the bio dad, Heiby Flores. Please help us. She`s only 2-8, 28 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. Please, if you have info, call National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, 1-800-THE- LOST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson`s three children will stay with their grandparents, at least for now. A Los Angeles probate court granted temporary guardianship to the children`s grandmother, Katherine Jackson.
JOE JACKSON: We`re going to take care of them and give them the education they`re supposed to have. We can do that.
GRACE: All we have heard over the years and from Michael Jackson himself about enduring physical abuse at the hands of his father, is the court actually sending his three children back into that home?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, Michael Jackson`s body in a secret and undisclosed location. I want to go straight back to Kara Finnstrom, standing by at Neverland. Kara, his body is being kept in a secret location. It`s headed to Neverland. Why is it in a secret location?
FINNSTROM: You know, Nancy, I haven`t gotten those reports. What we have gotten confirmed to us by a source is that his body will be brought up here early -- or rather, late Thursday morning. And then we also know once it is brought back here to Neverland, a 25-acre ranch here, there will be a public viewing on Friday. And then on Sunday, there will be a family memorial, a private memorial just for family members here.
GRACE: To Ian Drew, senior editor, "Us Weekly." Where`s Michael Jackson`s body right now?
DREW: Well, it in hiding, obviously, because he has so many fans that would go absolutely berserk if they got anywhere near it. They have to keep the situation under control, so it definitely is in a very top secret location.
GRACE: Well, Ian, even at the hospital, people were trying to get in to Michael Jackson, setting off fire alarms. I`m sure that the tabs want to get in and get a snapshot of Michael Jackson.
DREW: Exactly. There`s a lot of predators that they need to keep out, and you know, some of them not meaning badly, no offense to the fans, but they do get a little overzealous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: It has been really tough. Remember, we just lost the biggest star in the world, superstar in the world. It`s been tough.
MICHAEL JACKSON, KING OF POP: He didn`t allow us to call him daddy, and I wanted to call him daddy so bad. He said I`m not daddy, I`m Joseph to you.
J. JACKSON: I can`t get into that, but I don`t like what happened.
M. JACKSON: Somebody calls it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very strict, very hard.
J. JACKSON: This is a real, good statement here. Marshall and I have -- we own the record company called.
MARSHALL THOMPSON, RANCH RECORDS: Ranch Records. OK. It`s distributed by Blu-Ray Technology, and that`s the next step.
M. JACKSON: There`s a lot of sadness about my past life and you know adolescence and my father and all of those things. It just made me very, very, very sad.
OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: So he would tease you, make fun of you?
M. JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: Did he ever beat you?
M. JACKSON: Yes.
J. JACKSON: What I`m doing is I established a record company with Marshall, and the company is called Ranch Record distributed by Blue Star and Blu-Ray. So we have a lot of good artists fixing to come out. And I was asked that question and I answered just like it was asked because they wanted to know what else I was doing.
M. JACKSON: He would lose his temper. I just remember hearing my mother scream, Joe, you`re going to kill them. You`re going to kill him. Stop it. You`re going to kill him. You know, and I was so fast, you know, he couldn`t catch me half the time, but when he would catch me, oh, my god. It was bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Jackson`s famous moonwalk, that`s from the `83 Motown Special. Welcome back. We`re taking your calls live.
I want to go straight back out live to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story, at the Jackson parents` home. Do we have any idea where the body is?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, ON LOCATION FROM JACKSON PARENTS` HOME: No idea where the body is, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
LANCE: It hasn`t been revealed. We have tried to find out.
GRACE: Yes. Just yes, no. That`s all I need to hear.
LANCE: No.
GRACE: To Firpo Carr, a Jackson family friend, former spokesperson. He knows Grace Rwaramba. Explain to me who she is in relation to Jackson.
FIRPO CARR, PHD, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND, KNOWS MICHAEL JACKSON`S NANNY, GRACE RWARAMBA: Well, I know Grace when she first came here from Africa. In fact, she is a very close friend. She was visited my home all the time.
GRACE: To Jackson?
CARR: To Jackson.
GRACE: Who is she to Jackson?
CARR: The nanny. The nanny.
GRACE: And have police interviewed her? Was she there in the home when he collapsed?
CARR: I don`t know that information.
GRACE: Now sources have stated that she has actually had to pump his stomach before, but I don`t believe that`s true.
CARR: I would doubt that very seriously. I know that Grace is a wonderful person and that Michael had a lot of respect for her. I`ve seen Grace around the children. I`ve seen Michael around the children, their children. I`ve seen Katherine as well as Ribia (ph) around the children.
There was an incident or a situation whereby -- actually what happened was I found myself in all their presence, Michael Jackson asked me into the next room with his children, and in that room he revealed something to me that I`m just now revealing to people because it was our understanding that I wouldn`t say much.
And that is that he wanted Katherine Jackson to have the children should anything happen with him. He also said that he wanted me to study the bible with him because since he was raised as one of Jehovah`s Witnesses early in life, he would want his children to be raised the same way. So that is something that I think the world needs to know.
GRACE: How did he feel about his father, Joe Jackson, who would also have access to the children?
CARR: I don`t know that Joe -- well, of course, he would. But I`ll say this much. You`ve already just shown what he said about his father, but that we need to keep in mind was some 40 years ago. That`s when Michael was a child.
I have seen Joe Jackson around numerous grandchildren, and let me tell you, he is the sweetest guy around him as is the mother. So.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I just saw him the other night beamed up from the red carpet, and he took that moment when Michael Jackson isn`t even buried yet, his body is barely cold, to plug his own record label. So yes, I don`t see that he`s changed that much, sir.
CARR: Not the best judgment, I`ll say that right away. Some people have different ways.
GRACE: Yes. Well, thanks.
CARR: Certain people have different ways of coping with things.
GRACE: Out to Lucy in Alabama, hi, Lucy.
LUCY, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
LUCY: I want to know, my biggest concern, first of all, when the kids -- you know, the whole thing of the announcement of the death and how are the kids told about the death of their father, and I recently lost my son`s father so I told him that his -- everything to do with his father would live on within him.
I wondered about now everything comes out about the birth and if there was a donor involved.
GRACE: Let`s go to Brian Oxman, Jackson confidant. What about it, Brian? The children were there in the home when he collapsed. I doubt they had to be told a lot, and I understand that after he was pronounced dead they asked to see their father`s body there at the hospital?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY, CONFIDANTE & FMR. ATTY., HOST, INSIGHT NEWSRADIO KLAA: The children are so bright, Nancy. They didn`t miss a thing as to what was going on around them. They are smart. They know what happens in the commotion of Michael Jackson.
So they were aware of what was taking place as the police arrived, but after that there`s been no discussion or reports as to what happened. I know that there`s been reports that they requested to go to the hospital, but no one has said what the details were.
GRACE: OK.
OXMAN: It`s just too hard for them to tell that.
GRACE: Back to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent. We understand that a will has been emerged, a 2002 will leaving apparently everything to mother, Katherine, his own children and to charities. What do you know?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know that the family lawyer, Nancy, says that is the case. That he has seen the will. We don`t know what the family`s thoughts are. Haven`t heard about that. But you know that when Katherine filed a petition for custody, they didn`t think a will was around then. Now they know that there`s at least one, but Nancy, you know, I`m sure there`s going to be more than one that will come up.
GRACE: Out to Herb Nass, trust and estates attorney, author of "Wills of the Rich and Famous."
Herb, thank you for being with us. Herb, if one of the three children were born after this will, how will that affect the will?
HERB NASS, TRUSTS & ESTATES ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "WILLS OF THE RICH & FAMOUS": Well, it depends on how the will is drafted. Usually it provides for future children. It would have been shocking to me if Michael Jackson did not have a will, and it was somewhat disingenuous for his parents to petition to the court and act as though they didn`t believe there was a will.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
NASS: Well, you know, he was a major entertainer with major financial assets surrounded by lawyers for 40 years. The first thing a client like that.
GRACE: Yes.
NASS: . would have been told is, you need a will. And, you know, it would have been shocking if a guy like him didn`t have one.
GRACE: And to Susan Moss. Susan, what about the fact that in many wills when you have children you state in the will who you would like to take care of them if you should die. What about that? Wouldn`t that likely be in the will, and all this commotion be for naught?
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, absolutely, that will be in the will. But it is not per se enforceable. Look, if someone comes forward and contests grandma`s guardianship this is going to make the Dannielynn`s custody case look like small claims court.
Because who is fit to raise these children? You got Joe Jackson who, out there, being claims of allegations that he beat Michael and was also, otherwise, abusive. You got Katherine who couldn`t protect her own son from allegedly this monster, and then you`ve got Debbie Rowe, well, she`s no prize.
And you`ve got these possible biological parents and we don`t even know if they have standing to even ask for custody.
GRACE: You know, back to Carmen St. George, defense attorney joining us out of New York. All the while brewing is an investigation by the LAPD and the coroners. Both of them going back to the home with warrants to search the home.
What does it mean to you, Carmen, that they had to go back with warrants leaving with bags of evidence?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They wanted to do it by the book, Nancy, and recover evidence or anything that would help in the investigation. I think what`s going to be important is a post mortem toxicology report because hair samples from that might tell us about whether or not he had chronic drug abuse or anything from his stomach might tell us about drugs we`re not yet into his body.
So these detectives there are looking for further evidence to establish perhaps a link that doctors in this case or nurses were involved in providing him with medication.
GRACE: Got it.
ST. GEORGE: . prescriptions he shouldn`t have been taking.
GRACE: And to Patricia Saunders. Apparently one of the children saw Jackson collapse and thought it was a joke.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s not unusual for children. And daddy was clowning, because daddy used to clown around a lot. Depending on the age of the child, kids don`t have a sense of death being permanent and reversible. It can be really traumatic for children and it depends how it was handled, what the family told him.
GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We are taking your calls live.
Congratulations to Georgia friend of the show, Dr. Barbara Frizzell, retiring from Macon State College today after 34 years. Many of those years taking business and econ and for the last six years vice president for Academic Affairs and Dean of the Faculty. What a leader. What an inspiration.
Dr. Barbara Frizzell, congratulations.
(LOST VIDEO)
KIMBERLY, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Putting the word out and letting her picture be seen, so that is my question. Is there an Amber Alert out for her?
GRACE: Good question. You know, I couldn`t go across the street at 9:30 at night even on a Friday night at that age.
Very quickly, Steven Friederich, is there an Amber Alert?
STEVEN FRIEDERICH, REPORTER, THE DAILY WORLD, COVERING STORY (via phone): No. Amber Alerts are only issued if there`s actually, like, a target. A vehicle license plate.
GRACE: Right.
FRIEDERICH: You actually know somebody took them.
GRACE: No Amber Alert, everyone. Tip line. 866-915-8299.
Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal George Lutz II, 25, Virginia Beach, Virginia. Killed, Iraq. Left college to enlist. Also served Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina. Rescued two women stranded by floodwaters. Highly decorated. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Humanitarian Service medal, Armed Forces Service medal.
Great faith and passion. Loved Washington Redskins, football in the street with neighborhood kids. Leaves behind parents George Sr. and Patricia, widow, high school sweetheart, Tiffany, son Anthony, daughter, Ava.
George Lutz II, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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