Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Larry King Live
Jackson Memorial Details Revealed
Aired July 03, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, GUEST HOST: Tonight, Michael Jackson's memorial service -- will it be the largest event of its kind ever?
Los Angeles is bracing for massive crowds, with this message for those without tickets -- stay home.
Plus, a powerful anesthetic is found inside Jackson's house -- what was Diprivan, a drug used in hospital operating rooms, doing there?
Then, the people performing side by side with Michael are here.
Was Michael up to a grueling tour or was he trying to get out of it?
And we'll go back to Neverland with Jermaine Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: Michael, why did you go?
Why did you leave?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And show you never before seen footage until now.
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
And good evening.
I'm Anderson Cooper sitting in for Larry tonight.
We begin with details of Jackson's public memorial. The special Web site registering people for tickets to the service logged half a billion hits today, maybe even more than that at this point.
Here's CNN's Susan Roesgen in downtown Los Angeles at the Staples Center right now with the latest -- Susan, what are the details of this event on Tuesday that we know?
SUSAN ROESGEN, GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know, Anderson, is that very few people will get in. You know, they had that half a billion hits and it actually shut down the server, the computer Web site -- shut it down for a time today. Because what people have to do if they want to go to this memorial service is they have to get online, register -- the tickets are free. But at 6:00 tomorrow night, there's going to be a computerized random drawing of everybody who registered and then a lucky 17,500 will be the only ones to get tickets.
Everybody else, the LAPD, city officials and the people who are running the Staples Center say please, please, please don't even come down here. The cops are going to cordon off this area, Anderson. They don't want anybody to come down because basically, they don't know if they can handle the tens of thousands -- hundreds of thousands of fans and media who are going to be here next Tuesday.
COOPER: So 17,000 tickets available for people to actually be there for it. Others are going to have to watch it at home.
Do we know what the actual event is?
Are there celebrities there?
Will Michael Jackson's body actually be there?
Do we know the details?
ROESGEN: You know, the only that we know, Anderson, is that Michael Jackson's body won't be here. That is the only small detail that the promoters would say today. They said they are still working out the details. So we don't know if Diana Ross might be here or if the Jackson brothers would do a number or something. They won't say anything about it.
And yet, even so, as you mentioned, half a billion -- or at least a half a billion hits have been logged of people who want to come to this unknown memorial.
COOPER: What about a -- is there word of a private memorial service for the Jackson family and also any word on the burial?
ROESGEN: Yes, there is going to be a private memorial before this public memorial. But the family has not said where that private memorial will be. And even more interesting, Anderson, is that no one has said where or when Michael Jackson will actually bur -- be buried. So maybe at this private service on Tuesday, that's when the actual funeral will be. But the family isn't saying. All we know is that there's going to be this public memorial at 10:00 a.m. here local time on Tuesday.
COOPER: OK. Susan Roesgen at the Staples Center.
Susan, appreciate it.
More big news today came regarding the Diprivan reportedly found at Michael Jackson's home. It is a powerful anesthetic used in operating rooms.
CNN investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, is here to tell us what it may or may not have to do with Jackson's death.
So what do we know?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I think that is the big question. We still are nowhere near knowing what caused his death, even with this. The news is that the police found Diprivan inside his home. What's missing there is to what levels, was it found in his body and also the delivery.
Did they find the delivery mechanism...
COOPER: It has to be taken intravenously.
GRIFFIN: You have to have this intravenously. No one has said anything about we found an I.V. bag next to the (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: The very fact, though, that it's in his house is highly unusual. You talk to any doctors, and they say this shouldn't be in somebody's home.
GRIFFIN: Yes. It is -- it is so unusual. It's -- it's -- well, we've been reporting all week. It's found in ICU units. It's found in clinics where you have a doctor that's going to basically put you under. The only abuse of this drug that we've found is among anesthesiologists themselves.
COOPER: Have we heard from the attorney for Dr. Conrad Murray?
GRIFFIN: We did.
COOPER: What did they say?
GRIFFIN: They will not respond to any more rumors. They consider this a rumor. They consider any unnamed sources, as this was, a rumor.
COOPER: Because they -- they did respond to questions about Demerol and OxyContin.
GRIFFIN: Right. After the weekend, they had a three hour interview with the Los Angeles Police Department. Out of that, they had an agreement, I believe, with the Los Angeles police that they would be able to say my doctor, Conrad Murray, did not prescribe or give Demerol or OxyContin to Michael Jackson.
If you remember right, that was the early rumors on -- of what killed Michael Jackson.
COOPER: Right. Because Dr. Deepak Chopra had come out saying that a couple of years ago, Jackson had asked him for Demerol and OxyContin.
GRIFFIN: That's absolutely right. So do we read into it that he's not absolutely denying the fact that there was Diprivan being used?
Is that something?
Or is he sticking to the original statement of we're not responding to rumors after this?
COOPER: What gives this so much impatience, though, the fact that Diprivan was found are two recent developments.
One, the nurse who has come forward and said that three months ago, Jackson had begged her for this very substance...
GRIFFIN: By name.
COOPER: ...and, also, that Dr. Sanjay Gupta has found an anesthesiologist who was on tour with Michael Jackson in the -- in the mid-90s on the History Tour, I believe around '96 or '97, if I'm not mistaken, who actually, according to sources that Sanjay had, actually administered to him some sort of I.V. drugs to help him sleep.
GRIFFIN: Yes. Absolutely right. Dr. Neil Ratner. Now, he didn't confirm that. But what he told Sanjay is, look, Michael Jackson did have a sleep disorder and I was treating him for that during that tour. He wouldn't talk about any of the medical stuff.
The nurse, though, Cherilyn Lee -- this is the nurse practitioner -- in April says Michael Jackson asked for this by name. And, also, she described Michael Jackson describing what it felt like to have this drug. And it's exactly the feeling that anesthesiologists tell us is what it feels like -- a drip in the arm and I immediately go out. It was that kind of pleasure or that kind of comatose state that he was seeking from that nurse.
So it does sound like Michael Jackson knew about this drug and knew what it did from experience.
COOPER: It's also a drug that, as you say, is I.V. It has to be administered by a doctor and has to be monitored while the patient is under it, in order -- because it can have lethal side effects, of course. But, also, that as soon as it stops, the patient comes out of it.
GRIFFIN: That's absolutely right. And Michael Jackson, on the night he died, he wanted the doctor in his house. He invited the doctor over. Michael Jackson, when he was discussing his sleep disorders with Cherilyn Lee, was saying I need you to come over and watch me sleep.
This was a guy who -- who had people watching him sleep, at times.
COOPER: In the immediate hours after Michael Jackson's death, Brian Oxman was one of the -- was on scene. And a family -- a Jackson family spokesman at that time -- I don't know -- I'm not aware if he still is. I haven't heard his name mentioned in quite a while now. They seem to have other spokesmen.
He said that this is -- the story that the family has, for months, been trying to intervene and help out Michael Jackson in -- recording prescription drugs, that the people around him were enabling him and that what happened to Michael Jackson makes the Anna Nicole Smith story look small potatoes -- not exactly his words, but did reference Anna Nicole Smith.
Do we know anything -- is he still talking?
Is he still a family spokesman?
Do we know?
GRIFFIN: Brian Oxman was a family spokesman a couple of years ago. He had a falling out during the trial, when, basically, Mesereau, the attorney, kicked him off the case. I don't know how close he has been to some of the Jackson family members. But it doesn't appear that he is the family spokesman at this time or the recent past.
But what he is describing is what other friends of Michael Jackson have told me, that Michael Jackson had a drug problem, that that drug problem was -- was facilitated by these enablers around him, who could not say no to Michael Jackson.
COOPER: Well, Drew Griffin, we appreciate the report.
And we're going to go to Neverland next and hear what Michael's brother, Jermaine, has to say about Michael's death, when LARRY KING LIVE returns.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Larry King spoke to Jermaine Jackson in the Neverland about Michael's life and his death. Jermaine was visibly moved when he saw for the first time a tape of his brother performing just before Michael died.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY KING, HOST: And we want you to look at this tape of your late brother in his last rehearsal, 48 hours before he died.
Watch.
(MUSIC)
KING: All right. How does that make you feel?
J. JACKSON: Wow! He looks great -- strong very, very strong.
KING: When you saw reports of him looking bad, he looks -- he don't look bad to me.
J. JACKSON: No. He looks incredible. I mean he was going to put it on them -- a very strong man.
KING: So how does it hit you now, Jermaine? J. JACKSON: It hits me very, very deep. I'm very deep in shock. I'm very hurting. I'm paining. The world is paining. My family is paining, because he's gone too soon, too soon.
KING: How did you find out your brother died?
J. JACKSON: I was on the other side of town in Azusa. And I got a call from you guys on my wife's phone.
KING: CNN?
J. JACKSON: Yes. And they said, did you know that your brother was rushed to the hospital?
And I said, what?
So I called my mother immediately. And I got her on the phone and she said she was on her way. And so a little time went by and I spoke to Janet and I spoke to a few of the siblings. And then I -- about 45 minutes later. And then I called my mother back. And I hear this sound in her voice that's saying that he's dead. And just the feeling of emptiness came before my body, because to hear my mother say her child is dead and my brother is dead is -- I never ever thought that I would ever hear this from her lips.
KING: Did you go right over to the hospital?
J. JACKSON: Immediately, Larry. I had to go a different route. And once I got closer to where he was, I could see the helicopters in the sky. And that really brought just a chill over my whole body.
Once I entered into UCLA, I went straight for my mother to see how she was. And she was sitting there. And I guess she was there, but she wasn't there. And I consoled her and hugged her. And I -- and I went to see my baby, Michael. I went to look for him. And I...
KING: Where did you see him?
J. JACKSON: I saw him laying in the room. And he was lifeless, breathless. And he just -- as if it was a shell and his -- he was just there.
KING: What do -- what -- what do you do at a moment like that?
What do -- do you say something?
What do you do?
J. JACKSON: I said, Michael, why did you go?
Why did you leave?
Why did you leave me?
I -- what was going through my mind, Larry, I wish it was me there instead of him. KING: Really?
J. JACKSON: Yes. Because I loved Michael so much. It's a different love. All my family and siblings, the world loves him. But I just felt a special connection with him because just going back over memories how my father used to keep us in the same rooms, because we were on tour, so we were the lead singers and just memories all came back to me -- everything.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Jermaine Jackson talking about his brother.
Michael's three kids are being cared for by their grandmother, his mother, Katherine.
Larry asked Jermaine about the kids and how they're doing.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How are his kids?
J. JACKSON: His kids are strong. They -- they -- they have a lot of love and care. And they're playing with my kids. And they're just being strong. But they're -- they're -- it's what it is, Larry.
KING: Yes. One thing about Katherine, your mother, do you think it's proper that she be responsible for the kids?
J. JACKSON: Yes, I think it's very proper, because the way my mother raised us, the way -- we know how she's very -- just the love, the joy and making sure that they'll be OK. I thought it was the right choice.
KING: Age any hindrance?
J. JACKSON: No...
KING: Her age?
J. JACKSON: No, because she has a staff and she's always with all of our kids. There's 23 grandchildren (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: What do you make of the ex-wife possibly seeking custody?
J. JACKSON: Well, see, Larry, the will is what it is. And the will was really written well. And it was executed by the executors. And they did a great job. It's what it is so.
KING: So you don't think she has a shot?
J. JACKSON: Well, no. No. Because this is what Michael wanted. If we're looking at Michael and this is all about Michael, this is what he wanted. (END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Well, Neverland was more than Michael Jackson's home. For Miko Brando, it was the site of his wedding.
That's next, when LARRY KING LIVE returns.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE.
Michael Jackson loved having people to his home in Neverland. And those who were there say he was a gracious host.
One of them is Miko Brando, Marlon Brando's son and Michael's lifelong friend.
Miko and his wife, Karen, were married at Neverland Ranch.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Outside Neverland with Karen and Miko Brando.
Karen, you guys got married here and you made this walk some 15 years ago. This is -- this is the aisle, I guess.
KAREN BRANDO, MIKO'S WIFE: Yes. This is where we walked. I walked out of that door back there and we walked down here, up here into the gazebo.
ROWLANDS: How do you feel coming back here without everything that was here and without Michael Jackson?
K. BRANDO: Coming back today, it's different. It's hard knowing that he's no longer here, because we've had several events here since our wedding. Our wedding was the first event here. But we've had several. And it's always we've felt his presence. Even though he's here in spirit, it's difficult.
ROWLANDS: The first time you talked to Michael Jackson, tell that story.
K. BRANDO: Well, Miko and Michael both called me at work. They were both on a -- like a conference call.
MIKO BRANDO, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FRIEND: A conference call.
K. BRANDO: And Miko said, Karen, I have someone on the phone that wants to talk to you. And I said, OK. And he said, hi, Karen. And I said, hi. And he said, it's Michael. And he asked me if I wanted to get married here. And I didn't say anything. I was shocked. I was wow! You know, just thinking wow, you know, where Elizabeth Taylor got married.
So he noticed I wasn't talking and so he said, well, come up this weekend, see if you like it and then if you like it, you can get married here.
ROWLANDS: And you were thinking about it?
K. BRANDO: Yes. That's how sweet he is.
ROWLANDS: Give us a sense of how beautiful -- for people, I mean it's hard to -- it translates a bit on television, but, boy, it doesn't get much more beautiful than this.
K. BRANDO: Yes. It's -- it was very beautiful. It's a very beautiful place. It's a very peaceful place. You know, it's healing place. No one can come up here and not be happy and not heal their heart, no matter what they've gone through.
ROWLANDS: Sad?
K. BRANDO: It's very sad today, yes.
ROWLANDS: Just because he's gone and...
K. BRANDO: Um-hmm. I try to think that he's still here, he's still with us. But then when we talk about this and that, you know, because he is gone and we talk about the wedding and all the events that we've had here, it makes me -- it makes me realize that he's gone, you know?
And it's hard. It's just really hard, because he was such a good person.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Well, it's really hard for all those who knew and loved him.
There is so much speculation about what kind of shape Michael Jackson was in when he died. People who might know, his choreographer, and the dancers in the last known video of Jackson are here. The co-creator of the show is here, as well. We'll see what they have to say about the rigorous rehearsals, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
COOPER: Joining us now are the people who were going on tour with Michael Jackson -- the performers who are seen in that now famous video right next to him.
Kenny Ortega is co-director of Michael's latest concert tour. He had been Michael's creative partner for 20 years. Misha Gabriel was to be a dancer on the tour.
Orianthi -- or Orianthi, is that correct?
ORIANTHI, LEAD GUITARIST, MICHAEL JACKSON TOUR: Yes.
COOPER: Sorry. Orianthi was the lead guitarist for the tour.
And Travis Payne was the tour choreographer.
We appreciate all of you being with us.
I know it's been a very difficult couple of days for you all.
We've seen the video. And as we look at the video, it was taken 48 hours before he died on Tuesday night, the final dress rehearsal, how was Michael?
KENNY ORTEGA, MICHAEL JACKSON'S CREATIVE PARTNER: He was up. He was happy. He was really invested in the night. He was wearing costumes. And --. And every once in a while he would step off the stage and stand with me -- because we were co-directing the entire production -- and look up at Travis, actually, standing in for him and just smiling away and just so content and so pleased that we had come so far and were so close to arriving at our dream.
COOPER: Travis, you've been working with him for decades now.
TRAVIS PAYNE, CHOREOGRAPHER, MICHAEL JACKSON TOUR: Yes.
COOPER: How -- I mean, a 50-year-old -- a 50-year-old dancer is a lot different than a 25-year-old dancer.
What kind of shape was he in?
PAYNE: Well, in Michael's case, he was even better. You know, he's a very, very smart performer, all of our hero. And it was wonderful to see him transition, to see him, you know, grow and to see him adjust for what was necessary.
COOPER: Orianthi, had you worked with him before?
ORIANTHI: No. I (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: So in the video, we see you right there, playing guitar right next to him.
What is it like -- I mean you've watched this guy your entire life, probably, to suddenly find yourself on a stage next to Michael Jackson?
ORIANTHI: Really surreal. I'm a big fan. I was a huge fan. So when I got the e-mail to come and audition for him, I was just blown away. I didn't think it was real, you know, to go there and...
COOPER: What was he like compared to what you thought he would be like?
ORIANTHI: He was kind of exactly what I thought he would be like. He was just amazing. He had this, you know, just wonderful aura about him. And just, you know, he had a beautiful spirit. And it's been -- it's been just a really surreal time working with him and amazingly, you know, devastating when this happens.
COOPER: Yes, Misha, for you, I mean you're a dancer. It must be a dream come true to be on the same stage dancing with Michael Jackson.
MISHA GABRIEL, DANCER, MICHAEL JACKSON TOUR: Yes. There really is nothing better than dancing for your idol, let alone dancing for the king of pop, the king of dance.
COOPER: What was the show like?
GABRIEL: I'd like to say that seeing Kenny and Travis and Michael create the show, they were pushing the limits of rock and roll and pushing the limits of -- of dance. Michael himself had, for any, you know, dance fans that know Michael's movement, he had a completely new arsenal of movement, which they had never seen before...
(CROSSTALK)
GABRIEL: ...that was just...
COOPER: You guys were working on new moves?
ORTEGA: Michael was the greatest improvisational dancer that you ever, ever saw in your life. And sometimes he would just -- it was like going into a trance.
ORIANTHI: Right.
ORTEGA: He would just -- you know, he was just like, you know, he didn't think, he just did. And -- and there were times when he was in rehearsal that, really, we were awestruck. I mean it was so powerful.
COOPER: So how did -- Travis, I mean, how would he come up with ideas for a move or -- how did that work?
PAYNE: Well, I mean, we -- I got to start dancing with him in 1992 and then became a choreographer and then got to join Kenny and Michael with the creation of the show. And, you know, it was very organic to him. He just would also say listen to the music. So that's where we would always begin, you know.
And, I, too, was flabbergasted at some of the things that were coming out of him recently...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
PAYNE: ...you know, you think you know everything -- or at least how it feels, but then he'll hit you right in the face with something new and you're like wow!
COOPER: Kenny, there have been a lot of reports that -- that he didn't want to do these shows or he didn't want to do 50 shows -- initially only 10 shows were announced.
Do you believe he was fully committed to doing all 50 shows?
ORTEGA: I think he wanted to do them -- and more. I think he wanted to do many, many, many more. He was really looking forward to sharing this with his fans all over the world. He talked about India with the biggest grin on his face. And, you know, it was like a kid in a candy store, you know, getting ready to get out there in the world and -- and be back on that stage, back in the light.
I think it was -- it was -- it was really more of a question of, you know, it took a lot out of Michael to do one performance. I mean he invested his whole self. And so it was like the recovery time. And so he just wanted to make sure that he would at least have, you know, a day in between or two days in between. So we were trying to, you know, make sure that the tour was structured so that Michael wouldn't do more than two to three concerts a week. And I think that he was feeling good that that was something he could handle.
COOPER: Orianthi, were you nervous being on stage with him?
ORIANTHI: Yes, I -- because we practiced so much. We knew the songs so well. And so when he called me out, you know, it was very easy to get, you know, to play the -- play the parts. But since we, you know, rehearsed so much, it was just -- we knew the parts like the back of our hands. And, you know, just being in his presence, I'm just so -- I'm just so grateful that I had that time with him, so.
COOPER: Misha, for you, I mean it's -- it's -- obviously, you know, it is a sad thing for everybody. But for you, this was a huge opportunity. It's got to be just stunning and surreal to suddenly realize -- I mean you had the high of getting in the show and then to have this happen.
GABRIEL: It's been -- it's been devastating. I'm trying to remember and realize the time I did have with him and realize that it's such a great opportunity, rather than looking at the down of losing such an amazing person and trying to remember everything he did give me.
Sharing the stage with him was -- he gave any dancer that got on stage -- Travis tried to explain it to us before we met him and it didn't make sense until we actually met him. When he gets on the stage, he just channels something inside of you and -- and really got the best out of us.
COOPER: So he brings something out in you?
GABRIEL: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. He -- his energy on stage, especially the last week of -- of his life, was unbelievable. I mean, the guy was on fire. My friends were asking like, how is he? How is he? And I was like I -- I don't have the words to explain. COOPER: Really?
GABRIEL: Michael Jackson is -- he's unreal.
COOPER: We're going to have more with the group, more with Kenny and the crew, right after this break.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We're back with co-creator and co-director Kenny Ortega and the performers who rehearsed and change with Michael Jackson for his upcoming tour, Orianthi, Misha Gabriel, a dancer, and Travis Payne, choreographer for the tour.
Kenny, the memorial service on Tuesday, you're now going to be involved in it. What are the details that you can talk about? Well regard to see?
ORTEGA: There was a lot of hearsay up until this morning, and then there was announcement. And right after that announcement I was called and asked if I would like to direct the program, which, of course, I'm honored and privileged to be associated with the family in this final--
COOPER: So you're going to meet with them tonight to find out more details?
ORTEGA: I don't know who I'm going to meet with, but I am going to be with AEG and other folks. But we are going to be guided by the family. This is all about the family and their comfort.
COOPER: Would you all like to perform at the memorial if you could?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than anything.
COOPER: More than anything.
The last minutes, what was the last thing you said to Michael Jackson?
ORTEGA: Very last thing I said to Michael Jackson, I said -- he asked me if I was happy.
COOPER: This is Wednesday night around 12:30 a.m.
ORTEGA: We always got together at the end of rehearsal. I always walked into his dressing room and helped him put his jacket on, and then sort of walked them out. And he said "Are you happy?" And I said "I'm happy and I'm proud, I'm so proud of you. These last couple of nights have just given you such confidence and courage and strength.
And I said, "How about you?" He said "I'm happy." And I said is there anything you want to share with anyone? Do you want me to give anyone any notes, any thoughts about the lighting, the staging, the choreography, or anything, the band?
And he just looked at me and said "No. Everything was good. It was a good night."
COOPER: The questions now about drug use, about the Diprivan was found in a hole according to the Associated Press. What do you make of that? Is that anything you saw?
ORTEGA: No, no, no.
I saw a man with the most gorgeous children, who was the happiest dad and the proudest dad, with this incredible rapport with these kids. I saw a guy who was so excited and looking forward to sharing these ideas with his world.
I saw a guy who fell love with this family of players, and they who fell in love with him.
COOPER: And there are some folks who watch that video, and it's kind of a Rorschach test. Some people will say well, look, Michael Jackson looks like he's doing great. He's dancing, he's singing live. Others people will say he looks thin, he wasn't doing any significant dance moves.
In terms of when people ask what shape was Michael Jackson in, what can you honestly say?
ORTEGA: Growing, building, becoming stronger every day. It had been what, 13 years, Travis? 13 years. So he was building himself. He was opening up his voice. He was building up his physical dynamic.
But there was also this ingenuity, this invention that was coming out of him. And he was alive and inspired and channeling and really present.
COOPER: Travis, you worked with him probably intimately in a way other people haven't. As his choreographer he probably went through so many times and worked one-on-one with him.
PAYNE: We started each day together at his house.
COOPER: When you think of Michael Jackson, is there a memory you think of?
PAYNE: So many. But I've learned so much from this gentleman over the years, and I even thought I knew until he was gone. And he always just encouraged me to innovate, believe this in my ideas. Don't be nervous. Don't second guess yourself, and make sure you love it, and then they'll love it.
But it is just such happy memories, all the Margaret. He always made us work much harder than we thought we could, and we all achieve much greater than we imagined.
COOPER: For all of you it's got to feel just completely surreal though.
PAYNE: It does, it does.
But I know that he is a wonderful, wonderful mission and his life and in his art. And it was always about healing the planet. It was always about bringing an awareness to our human condition and what's going on the planet.
ORTEGA: And I think he's left us with a responsibility, and I know that I'm ready to accept it. I feel like I've been shot into outer space, and sort of then landed back down inside my body, and there's this new place that I live in now.
Michael took us on this new journey, some of us for many, many years. And now for this to mean anything, we have a responsibility to sort of carry the importance of a lot of what Michael stood for and cared about forward.
COOPER: I know you have a lot of work ahead you this weekend planning for the concert. We'll keep in touch with you. Kenny Ortega, appreciate it.
ORTEGA: Thank you.
COOPER: Travis Payne, Orianthi.
ORIANTHI: Orianthi.
COOPER: I'll get it right any day now. Misha Gabriel, as well. Thank you very much.
ORTEGA: Thanks, Anderson, thank you.
COOPER: One of Michael's dear friends Gotham Chopra is with us. His interesting insights right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to "LARRY KING LIVE."
Gotham Chopra knew Michael Jackson for years. He grew up with a pop icon. Here's Larry's interview with Gotham.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: He was with us last night, and we're continuing again tonight with Gotham Chopra, the friend of Michael Jackson, worked with Michael on the multiplatinum albums "Dangerous" and "HIStory," and, of course, the son of the famed Deepak Chopra.
When something happens like this, and you said you knew of problems that he had and the like, is there any feeling of guilt or feelings that maybe I should have done more? GOTHAM CHOPRA, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LIFELONG FRIEND: Yes, absolutely.
And I think through the years, I tried my best, and Michael responded, sometimes angrily, sometimes in complete denial, and sometimes in acceptance, saying I'm going to take care of this, I'm going to get help.
But he was great at isolating himself and becoming totally inaccessible. You would go weeks or months without hearing from him.
That being said, yes, I do feel that. And it's something I thought a lot about, what else could I have done.
KING: Was it frustrating?
CHOPRA: Yes, it was frustrating. I know I got angry certain times with him, but, you know.
KING: Now you and your father both said that he talked about dying.
CHOPRA: Yes.
KING: In what respects?
CHOPRA: There was certain people that he sort of looked up to, from James Dean to Elvis Presley to John Lennon, people who in some ways have been immortalized by their premature deaths. And I think that was something that he recognized and almost envied in a way.
I do think it changed a little bit when he had children. He certainly, as any parent, realizes now you have something outside of yourself to live for.
So that changed him. But I still think that when he looked at his creative endeavors, he thought in some ways they might be immortalized by his death.
KING: I understand.
The video we were showing all day yesterday, this is part two of our interview of course. How did it strike you to see him rehearsing, and then 48 hours later, he's gone?
CHOPRA: I think the whole thing has been shocking. You know, when I heard art it -- I mean, that video, I think I look at it and see, Michael took his performing very seriously. He was excited about this.
KING: And a perfectionist, right?
CHOPRA: Absolutely. He knew that this was probably going to be his last series of performances, and I think for that reason, he really wanted to be the rock star again.
KING: Did he look OK to you?
CHOPRA: yes. Like I said yesterday, he was always very thin. But he didn't look frail to me. I've probably seen Michael, unlike a lot of people, without the makeup, without kind of all the being made up as elaborate as he often was when he went out. And he looked OK to me.
But you know, I think I probably wanted to see him look well, so I did.
KING: What are your thoughts about the will?
CHOPRA: You know, there's so much chaos that's going to ensue for the next few months if not years.
KING: A challenge by the wife, maybe?
CHOPRA: Maybe. I think, ultimately, all of us who care, and I know the ex-wife and I know the family all hope that the children's interests are first and foremost.
KING: What about Michael Jackson will you most remember?
CHOPRA: I will remember that was he was a friend, first and foremost. That's kind of my thinking, that I've lost a great friend.
But he was also a brilliant and iconic artist, and his talent was root in a lot of anguish. And if you knew him, you knew that. And he talked about that. And it was painful to watch, but it was probably also in part what inspired him.
KING: What can top him?
CHOPRA: Maybe his legacy.
KING: Which is?
CHOPRA: I think we'll remember him for being probably the greatest artist of this generation, perhaps of the century.
KING: So the tapes, the videos will be shown forever.
CHOPRA: Yes. I think he will be immortalized by his performances. Even the last week, I think, who hasn't sat around and watched the "Beat It" video or "Thriller" video.
KING: And the rehearsal video. And you know that's coming.
CHOPRA: Yes.
KING: Thanks, Gotham.
CHOPRA: Jermaine Jackson has some revealing things to say about Michael and drug use. We'll have that in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Jermaine Jackson was understandably emotional when talking to Larry about Michael's death. Here he is talking about Michael's autopsy and some other very personal issues.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Did you hear any of the results from any other autopsies? Do you know anything more?
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: No. When it comes to these things they're saying -- excuse me, but I'm very uneducated when it comes to drugs, and I want to be that way.
KING: There was a second autopsy. Do you know of anything?
JACKSON: You know, I don't. But I'm pretty sure, there's going to be all kind of speculation and things that are being said. But the most important thing is we have to look at who Michael really is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Dr. Drew Pinsky is here next, and we'll find out what a experienced medical professional has to say about Diprivan, addiction, and the death of Michael Jackson. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Programming note coming up at the top of the hour. A remarkable show called "360," and we have breaking news in the world of politics. Former GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin quitting her job as governor of Alaska. It all happened late this afternoon in her backyard, where she gave a long and, well, strange press conference.
We'll show nearly the entire press conference. You can judge it for yourself or try to figure out exactly why she's quitting. We'll have analysis from our political team. That's coming up on "360" at the top of the.
Drew Pinsky joins us now. He's a medical doctor and addiction expert, and host of VH1's "Celebrity Rehab." A lot of talk to you about. A.P. saying Diprivan was found at Michael Jackson's home. When you heard Diprivan, what did you think?
DR. DREW PINSKY, "CELEBRITY REHAB": That is a bizarre, bizarre thing. I thought, oh, my goodness, Martians have landed outside my house. That's how bizarre this is.
COOPER: Bizarre because it's administered in the hospital and even IV--
PINSKY: I have never seen it outside of an intensive care unit or surgical suites, maybe in the ER.
COOPER: You work with people who are addicted. PINSKY: I work with people who are addicted. I've heard of an anesthesiologists becoming addicted to Diprivan because they're aware of the medicine, they're exposed to it. But for the lay public, even myself, I've treated over 10,000 addicts, I've treated hundreds of celebrities, never seen Diprivan come up.
It's really outlandish that that medicine be utilized outside of a hospital or that the patient asked for that medicine by name, dose, and route of administration. Something has broken down and the doctor-patient relationship and that situation.
COOPER: The fact that we have now learned, Dr. Sanjay Gupta yesterday tracked him down, that Michael Jackson on his "HIStory" tour, had a Dr. Ratner, an anesthesiologists along with another doctor on tour with him, what does that tell you?
PINSKY: It tells me that there was already an extraordinary problem underway.
I tell you, one of the problems with celebrities, particularly powerful celebrities, is they tend to think that they need special care. And the reality is that the standard of care and medicine is the standard of care because it is the best.
When a person starts demanding something special, they often end up with substandard care. In particular celebrities tend to have --
COOPER: Which is ironic. I mean, you'd think they have all this money, they get the best.
PINSKY: The people with a lot of money and no money have a lot more in common than the rest of us in the middle in terms of the quality of care that they get.
It's very hard for a high-profile celebrity to get good care because doctors are enamored and sort of get seduced by basking in the glow of celebrity. They want that celebrity to like them and to feel good about the care they're getting.
And when they suddenly turns on them and say you're awful, you're not making me feel good, I'm going to tell everybody a horrible doctor you are, it can become a powerful situation.
COOPER: At this point we don't have the toxicology reports. And until we have that, we won't know for sure what happened. But you have Dr. Deepak Chopra who said several years ago Jackson asked him for OxyContin and tomorrow. You have this nurse who has not come forward and said three months ago Michael Jackson asked specifically for Diprivan.
The A.P. is now reporting Diprivan has been found. Brian Oxman, a onetime family spokesman, saying in the immediate hours after Jackson's death that this makes -- what happened to Jackson makes Anna Nicole Smith look like nothing.
What is the picture you see? PINSKY: The picture -- if you add the data to the fact he had been admitted to chemical dependency programs in the past for painkiller addiction, that is a -- you have to meet criteria for that. You have to be diagnosed in order to gain access for admission in a situation like that.
And once you have a diagnosis of opiate addiction, that is a life-long chronic disorder. And if that person with that diagnosis is also using medication, asking for medication, getting extraordinary amounts and types of medication, that means that addictive disease just by definition is alive and well, and that person's life is potentially in danger.
COOPER: I was also interested to learn that if, in fact, it's true that Michael Jackson was using Diprivan in order to sleep, that it actually does not make you sleep. It is not giving you REM sleep.
PINSKY: It's not giving you normal sleep.
COOPER: So your body is actually not recovering in the way people do if you actually sleep.
PINSKY: That is exactly right. It is not as though that is in the paradigm of treatments for sleep disorders or insomnia. It just isn't.
And by the description we heard from the nurse, which he described Michael Jackson was suffering from, and he really indeed, I'm sure, was suffering, it sounds like a withdrawal state he was in.
One of the things my patients complain of, I can't sleep. He may have all also had insomnia, but you can't treat insomnia until you simplify the pharmacological situation.
COOPER: How much in patients you deal with, in celebrities you deal with, is about the celebrity, and also, how much is enabled by just people hanging around them?
PINSKY: As I said, yes, my research has been very clear. I have the only published literature on this topic, and that shows very clearly that people seek to be celebrity tend to arrive at their celebrity status with preexisting pathologies, among them narcissism.
COOPER: It is not normal thing to seek out fame in the public eye.
PINSKY: It's not necessarily normal.
COOPER: And I speak from experience, as I'm sure you do as well.
PINSKY: And particularly if you do it because, hey, it's me. But people like tend to keep people around them but keep them come up, keep them feeling special. And anybody who violates risks their access to that person.
COOPER: One of the things Deepak Chopra would say was that Michael Jackson would make himself unavailable to you if you pushed him on something.
PINSKY: And Deepak in fact did refuse him and was dismissed from the inner circle as a result of that. And that's in fact how they finally get their way, which is there is somebody who is lined up who will gratify them.
And it is a very alluring situation. I feel very bad for the doctors who get themselves in this situation. You know when, you're well meaning, you want to help that person. They tell you what a great job you're doing. And it feels good when a powerful person tells you are doing good, I'm going to tell everybody how good a job you're during.
That is a slippery, seductive slope that really no one should do alone, quite frankly? Don't attempt this alone is what I tell my --
COOPER: Should these doctors be hanging out socially with these people? Should they be --
PINSKY: Categorically, no.
The big problem here is the violation of boundaries, that you have to maintain boundaries with people with certain psychopathological problems. You have to be able to confront them, you have to be able to frustrate them. Matthew the available to them but do some things that are not so fun and pleasant for them. Don't gratify them.
And that is something that a lot of people are not equipped to do.
COOPER: So much to learn. Again, it is up to the toxicology reports to finally get a sense. But the information coming out is not good. It's very sad.
PINSKY: It is extraordinary and it is sad.
COOPER: Yes, that's the bottom line. Dr. Drew Pinsky, appreciate it, thank you. We go back to Neverland, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Very few people have been granted access to Neverland since Michael Jackson's death. But you're about to get the grand tour.
Here is a look at some never before seen footage of Michael Jackson one time home.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the lasting images people have is the amusement park rides. Those are no longer here. When you look out here, what goes through your mind? Can you visualize what it used to like? MIKO BRANDO, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FRIEND: Yes. We had the zipper over here, the slide here, the carousel here, the jumbo-tron here where he could show videos and movies day or night. And you could see it on a huge screen.
He had popcorn machines, snow cone machines all over here, places for drinks and soda. He had the bumper cars over here, the racetrack was over here. Basketball court, everything was here for everyone to enjoy.
ROWLANDS: You said the adults had just as much fun as the kids.
MIKO BRANDO: The adults would be on the rides over and over and over with their kids, going from ride to ride to ride, enjoying the whole park, and having a good time. The music would be blaring. It was fun, a lot of fun.
ROWLANDS: You got here from the train, the tracks are just up there. And this is the movie theater. Let's go check that out.
MIKO BRANDO: OK.
ROWLANDS: Inside the movie theater, Miko, obviously, whatever you wanted, huh?
MIKO BRANDO: Yes. He had stacked with candy, whatever you want, come back for doubles. He ice cream, popcorn, he had coffee, sodas, anything you wanted.
ROWLANDS: Doubles. I love that. Kids usually don't get doubles.
MIKO BRANDO: Here they went wild. The mothers would say , no, no, you can only have one. But he said let them have two. It's OK.
ROWLANDS: This is the theater here, but before we go there we want to show you this, a dance studio just off the theater. And this is where Michael Jackson would rehearse.
MIKO BRANDO: Yes. This was his recording studio, his dance studio. He did all his work in here. This was his area and only his area.
ROWLANDS: As you can see, a circle in the floor that's back in here. And this is where -- this is for Michael Jackson's spinning?
MIKO BRANDO: Yes. That's where he would do his dance steps, he would have a mirror here. He would rehearse. He would have the lights here, everything set up to where he felt he was on stage and he could perform his steps and rehearse and practice.
ROWLANDS: And other to the side here there is a bathroom, and the theater is right around the corner.
And check this out, obviously, spent a lot of time here. Tell us about this room here. MIKO BRANDO: This room here would be for the handicapped to be able to watch the movies with their assistants or nurses or whatever, and be able to enjoy the film and at the same time have their space.
ROWLANDS: The sick kids that couldn't be out here with the others.
MIKO BRANDO: Yes. They weren't able to sit in the seats.
ROWLANDS: And this is where Michael Jackson sat?
MIKO BRANDO: Yes. He sat either here or there. It really didn't matter. He would just sit here and just control the movie. If the volume was too high or too low, the picture. If you want something to eat, if you wanted something to drink, whatever you wanted was right here. He controlled the whole room right here.
ROWLANDS: Let's check out the stage. We'll walk through here.
This is an incredible -- there's a trap door. Tell us about Michael's love of magic.
MIKO BRANDO: He loved magic, and he would have magic shows, performers up here, and even a trap door over here, as you see. And he would just show magic shows to his family and friends. He loved magic.
ROWLANDS: The trap door here and another one right over there.
MIKO BRANDO: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That's it for "LARRY KING LIVE." "360" starts now.
