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CNN Larry King Live
Jackson May Have Died from Overdose
Aired July 09, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION" CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, GUEST HOST: Tonight, did Janet Jackson try to save her brother?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ARNIE KLEIN, MICHAEL JACKSON'S DERMATOLOGIST: Michael, at one time, had an addiction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: His doctor says he tried to help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: He came to me with a huge tolerance level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Could one of Jackson's other physicians have administered a deadly dose of drugs?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: There are certain people in this world who are not reasonable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Janet desperately wanted to stage an intervention. The shocking details about what made her act and how Michael shut her and the entire Jackson family out.
Plus, the latest on the death investigation, M.J.'s final resting place and the explosive comments from Dr. Arnie Klein about the pop star's plastic surgery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: What I wanted to do is, you know, stop it, because I felt that, you know, we were losing body parts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
I'm Jim Moret from "INSIDE EDITION" sitting in for Larry King tonight.
We begin with breaking news and what could be criminal charges in the Michael Jackson case.
Here's what LA police Chief William Bratton told us just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, the inquiry into the death of Mr. Jackson is continuing. We will still await corroboration from the coroner's office as to the cause of death. That is going to be very dependent on the toxicology reports that are due to come back. And based on those, we'll have an idea of what it is that we're dealing with.
Are we dealing with homicide, are we dealing with an accidental overdose or what are we dealing with?
So as we're standing here speaking, I -- I can't tell you, because I don't have that information.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You would wait until the coroner is finished or do you -- that's -- you don't have to wait until their report is out, do you, to change the classification of the investigation?
BRATTON: No. We have a very comprehensive and far-reaching investigation which has been pretty widely reported in the media -- that we're looking at his prescription drug history, the doctors that he's dealt with over the years. We have the cooperation of the DEA and the state attorney general's office, who keep those records. So those are being looked at by our personnel.
We, at the time of the death, with search warrants -- we were able to seize a number of items from the residence in which the death occurred. And those will assist in investigation as it moves forward.
ROWLANDS: (INAUDIBLE) a sense of the classification of a death investigation to a homicide, what needs to take place?
BRATTON: That would actually be the coroner's determination. He -- he makes the determination as to the nature of the death.
ROWLANDS: Do you wait for a definitive cause of death to change the investigation?
BRATTON: In terms of -- we move forward in a variety of ways with our investigation, which is, in many respects, a comprehensive set of inquiries so that no matter which way the coroner's finding would go -- the multiple findings he may make -- we would be in a position to not have lost time, if you will, waiting for that report.
So we're not marking time waiting for his report. We're gathering, based on our experience in these matters -- and, unfortunately, in Los Angeles, we have a lot of experience with death investigations, that we've got very good investigators.
So they will be prepared to deal with whatever the coroner's findings may be.
ROWLANDS: Are you getting cooperation from all the doctors?
BRATTON: I won't speak to the intimacies of the investigation. That's not our policy. But we are, as has been reported in the media, speaking to and will be seeking to speak to a number of the physicians that attended Mr. Jackson over the years that he was being treated.
ROWLANDS: And finally, if -- you know, because people think, oh, a homicide investigation or doctors, there's a clear difference, is there not, possibly, in intent and possible charges?
And just because the investigation is going one way, it doesn't mean some physician is going to be thrown in jail.
BRATTON: I'm not even going to speak to that. We'll wait to see what the coroner comes back with. And then once he comes back with his determination, we'll be able to speak to, in a much clearer and very open way, what our course of action will be.
But I'm not going to speculate at this time. We're going to wait until he comes back with his findings. He has his role and responsibility. We have our role and responsibility.
But the next move, really, is his.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
MORET: CNN's Ted Rowlands spoke to the chief. He joins us.
CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin is with us in Atlanta.
Defense attorney Trent Copeland, also a CBS News legal analyst, is here.
Stacy Honowitz, Florida assistant state attorney general, rounds out our group.
Thank you all for joining us -- Ted, first, as to the police chief's comments, what brought before this change?
ROWLANDS: Well, basically, he said that there isn't a change, is that, from the beginning, they have treated this basically like, as he put it, an investigation into the worst case scenario. So they're treating it like a homicide investigation.
If it turns out that that's not what they needed to do, well, they did the work and they won't use it.
But if the coroner comes back and says this is a homicide, then they're prepared to have the information.
So that basically his message is, is it still a death investigation?
Yes.
Are we prepared for it to be a homicide investigation?
Absolutely. And we're waiting for the coroner.
MORET: Trent, I heard the chief use the word corroboration -- we're looking for corroboration.
Doesn't that sound like it ratchets up this investigation?
TRENT COPELAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It does. And, Jim, as you know, as an attorney, you know, the word corroboration typically has -- has a -- has a real meaning in court. And it means, look, we're looking for something to further substantiate what we already believe may be the case.
So when I hear the word corroboration, if I'm a lawyer for any one of these five or six doctors, I am really understanding that this case may be ratcheted up. I'm putting my seat belt on. And if I'm one of these lawyers of one of these doctors, I'm lawyering up.
So, look, the truth is, I think the chief spoke very clearly. But I think he spoke very cautiously and judiciously. But the message is, if you're a defense lawyer, get ready for your phone to ring because I think doctors are going to be in need of a legal representation.
MORET: Stacey Honowitz, what's your take from Florida?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, listen, we -- we -- I think, in the very beginning, when this first happened and we heard that there were a lot of drugs and people came out and said that he was being enabled and he was -- had this, you know, all these narcotics in the house, we knew that it was probably going to go this route.
And I think what Trent said, what the -- what the captain said, you know, it's an investigation. And we're looking to see. Nobody knows anything at this point.
What we hear right now is a lot of speculation, because we are hearing that there were several doctors involved. We're hearing that false names were involved, maybe he got prescriptions using false names, maybe these doctors knew that he was already taking drugs and they enabled him.
So it's a wait and see situation right now. They will do a thorough investigation. They are bringing in the DEA. They're bringing in very heavy-hitters to try to figure out -- to try to find out where this emanated from. They're looking back and they're taking in every bit of evidence that they possibly can to make a determination in the case.
MORET: And Drew Griffin, this is consistent with your investigative reports, isn't it?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, you know, I think one of the biggest things that we got out of Ted's interview here is it's homicide or accidental overdose. We're no longer talking about natural death, as far as I can glean from this interview.
And, Jim, you know, you've covered a lot of these cases in L.A. I really didn't get the sense that this is ratcheting up. I get the sense that the LAPD is going to have all its ducks in a row to either put this to rest when the coroner comes out and says this was an accident or to not face any criticism if it turns out to be a homicide and they have to turn this into a criminal case.
So I think...
MORET: Well, but Ted...
GRIFFIN: I don't really think...
MORET: Ted, if...
GRIFFIN: ...we're going either way on this.
MORET: But if not ratcheting up, it sounds like the chief is getting us ready to hear the words "charges" or "homicide investigation."
ROWLANDS: Yes. Absolutely. And I think the fact that he said possible homicide investigation, it's on the table now, officially. You know, there's been a lot of -- with this story more than any, really, of recent memory -- a lot of reporting through sources and, you know, one source, two source. And some of it has, quite frankly, been way off base.
I think what the chief did, though, was bring it back to, you know, back home to the chief of the police that -- that's investigating this.
And make no mistake, they are running this investigation. The D.A. is helping out a little bit and the attorney general is watching. But LAPD is handling this.
MORET: Thank you.
We have a lot more to come.
We're just getting started.
Back with more right after this.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORET: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Jim Moret from "INSIDE EDITION" sitting in for Larry tonight.
We're talking about the breaking news in the Michael Jackson case -- specifically, the fact that this could become a criminal or homicide investigation.
Trent Copeland, take us through this process. We know that in the Anna Nicole case -- and this case has been compared to that already -- it took about a year, perhaps a little longer, before we saw charges.
If this becomes a homicide investigation, do you expect this will be a lengthy one?
COPELAND: Well, I don't think that this case will be any different than Anna Nicole Smith. In fact, I think is going to be exponentially multiplied beyond that.
Look, there are a lot of records in this case, apparently, that authorities would have to go through. Michael Jackson took a lot of prescription medications, apparently. He apparently had a lot -- a large number of doctors and there were a lot of people who were willing to assist him.
So you've got to go through the databases associated with who prescribed the medication, when did they prescribe that medication, were they aware of Michael Jackson's medical history at the time of prescribing that medication.
There are going to be a lot of things they're going to have to look to. They'll -- they'll talk to some of these people, assuming any of these people are willing to talk to them and assuming some of those people have not lawyered up and those lawyers are asking them not to talk -- not to reveal any personal statements associated with their relationship with Michael Jackson.
This is going to be an exhaustive and extensive search. And I think, as chief Bratton indicated in the report, they've already begun their investigation. And I think they have hit the ground running.
So I think, unlike the Anna Nicole Smith, I don't think this will extend out as far as Anna Nicole Smith, although I think that it really has tentacles that (INAUDIBLE)...
MORET: As far as the number of people you mean?
COPELAND: No, I don't think...
MORET: Or as far as time?
COPELAND: ...it will extend in terms of the number of time -- the amount of time.
MORET: But Stacey Honowitz, the LA police chief did say -- I wrote "number of physicians over years." So they're looking at a long period of time, not necessarily just those drugs that were in his system when he died, right?
HONOWITZ: Yes, that's correct. And another thing, Jim, you have to remember is, you know, there were other doctors that went internationally with him. I mean there are so many records and so many tentacles in this case.
And also, you know, you run into a very big problem, also, when you're looking back at doctors that -- that maybe enabled him or, you know, were so excited to be in his, you know, company and so they gave to him.
You know, not every drug that's given is given by prescription. He might have walked into an office, asked a doctor for something and the doctor might not have written a prescription, might have had the medication in the office.
So I mean, there is a lot of work that's going to go into this, a lot of detail. I don't know, really, how long we're looking at, but it's substantial investigation.
MORET: Drew, what about Stacy's point?
What about drugs that weren't necessarily prescribed but were given to Michael Jackson?
Have you found anything more on that, because you talk about a lot of drugs and specifically during this '96 concert tour, when he was given drugs.
We're talking about a long drawn -- a long period of time and a lot of medication.
GRIFFIN: And just look at what we've heard from some of our sources, that some of the -- the drugs, the medications confiscated at the house were in prescription bottles with no prescriptions on them.
Well, whose prescriptions are those?
Was somebody else getting these prescriptions and then giving them to Michael Jackson?
So, I mean, it's going to have to be very exhaustive to determine, going back, you know, whether Michael Jackson was defrauding his own physicians, saying I have this ailment, knowing that that kind of an ailment or that ache would result in the kind of medicine that he was craving at the time.
These are very difficult to prove. And -- and the intent of the doctor, I think it will be exhaustive, Jim.
MORET: Ted, we've got about 30 seconds left in this block. But -- I'm sorry. You wanted to make...
(CROSSTALK)
MORET: ...we're talking about a lot of doctors who are probably very nervous tonight.
ROWLANDS: Right. Right. But a tough case to prove, as Drew touched on. Look at Anna Nicole Smith. Three people around her for years -- every doctor has a built in defense. Well...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they're...
ROWLANDS: (INAUDIBLE) charges filed in that case.
MORET: Yes, right.
ROWLANDS: I gave him this, but I had no idea he was taking that. It's going to be very difficult to prove that the doctors knew that what they were giving him might have been lethal.
MORET: But, Trent, there are records.
COPELAND: There are records. But, you know, as you indicated, there may not be records associated with every single prescription.
HONOWITZ: Right.
COPELAND: If I'm a defense lawyer -- look, I'm looking at this case and I'm saying, look, this is a defensible case unless there is something that is very definite that connects me with that...
MORET: A lot...
COPELAND: ...particular prescription.
MORET: A lot more to talk about.
We have news about Neverland and Michael's burial.
We'll get into that in just about 60 seconds.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORET: Jermaine Jackson spoke to Larry last week about Michael possibly being buried at Neverland.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST: California law says you have to bury in a cemetery, right?
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: It does pretty much, yes. But as you know, the ones who make the laws, they can also carnage them, too. I would love to see him here.
KING: Do you have a place for him here?
JACKSON: Yes. There's a special place right over near the train station right over there.
KING: And we saw it before?
JACKSON: Yes. It's hard, Larry, to point where your brother is going to be. It's tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Ted Rowlands has the latest today on that possibility -- Ted, what do you make of that?
Do you think that -- do you think that Michael Jackson will be buried at Neverland?
ROWLANDS: Well, here's what we found out, that somebody from the Jackson camp -- an attorney contacted the state last Thursday and inquired about how they could go about burying Jackson at Neverland.
And basically, the law doesn't says you can't do it by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the state for -- to bury your grandma in your backyard, you have to just fill out a two page form, pay $400...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's one step, though. But there's another step.
ROWLANDS: Then you have to go to your county and say is it all right if we do this burial?
MORET: And that's the tricky part, because Santa...
ROWLANDS: Yes.
MORET: ...Santa Barbara County hasn't been notified yet.
ROWLANDS: And they've never done it before ever. They don't know -- they don't have a template. So what they're doing is waiting to see if, indeed, the Jacksons do decide -- it sounds like there's -- there hasn't a decision, obviously, within the camp, so...
MORET: So we don't know if there's a split within the family.
ROWLANDS: Right. But as far as Santa Barbara County is concerned, they haven't heard from them. They'll deal with it when they hear an application. But, clearly -- and they indicated if they come to us, yes, we -- it -- it could happen.
MORET: So it's like the rest of this story so far, everything is still a mystery?
It's up in the air? ROWLANDS: Yes.
MORET: OK.
There's more.
Did Janet Jackson stage an intervention to help her brother Michael?
We'll get to that right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORET: We're talking about -- we're talking to Miko Brando, friend and long time employee of Michael Jackson. Michael was best man at his wedding and godfather to Miko's daughter.
Ted Rowlands, a CNN correspondent, is back with us, as is Drew Griffin, CNN investigative correspondent.
Carlos Diaz, correspondent for "Extra," is here.
And so is Dr. Reef Karim, psychiatrist and addiction expert. He rounds out our group.
Thank you all for joining us.
We're talking about some of the latest developments in the Michael Jackson case.
First let's go to Drew Griffin -- Drew, you have some information about Janet Jackson trying to stage an intervention for her brother.
What do you have on that?
GRIFFIN: Well, you know, we've heard about this before -- rumored to be an intervention from the family. But two sources have now come forward -- sources pretty close to this family -- that say in 2007, early 2007, Janet visited Michael Jackson at a home he was renting in Las Vegas -- a home nearly barren of furniture, Jim, and creepy looking, according to one of our sources.
Janet was really frightened when she saw her brother. She hadn't seen him. He'd been living in Bahrain and Ireland. He was reportedly thin and disheveled.
She was so frightened by this that she came back with two of her brothers in February -- they were in Las Vegas for the NBA All Star weekend -- and tried to stage an intervention -- go to Michael Jackson and try to get him to at least accept some counseling for drugs.
And Jackson ordered his security to stop them at the gate. He wouldn't -- he wouldn't even see them.
MORET: So, Miko, you know, when you hear this, 2007, you -- you were friends with Michael Jackson then. MIKO BRANDO, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LONG TIME FRIEND: Correct.
MORET: When you hear the words creepy looking, thin and disheveled, do any of those words ring true to you?
BRANDO: No. You know, Michael has always been thin. I mean he's never been overweight. He gained a little bit of weight, he lost a lot of weight. I mean, he went up and down. So it wasn't -- I mean he always looked the same. I mean there wasn't anything different that would stand out.
MORET: How would you describe Michael's relationship with Janet?
BRANDO: Close. Brother and sister.
MORET: Were you aware of any intervention?
BRANDO: I heard about it. I heard -- I wasn't there, but I heard -- I heard about it.
MORET: So this sounds correct to you?
BRANDO: I heard about it. I wasn't there, so I can't...
MORET: Are you aware of any other interventions?
BRANDO: No.
MORET: Just the one?
BRANDO: I'm pretty sure, yes.
MORET: Dr. Reef, when you talk about staging an intervention, Michael Jackson has been known to surround himself with people who want to agree with him. And if you don't or try to tell him something he doesn't want to hear, you're pushed out.
That's common with an intervention, right?
DR. REEF KARIM, PSYCHIATRIST, ADDICTION EXPERT: Absolutely. In most interventions -- there's a lot of prep work for interventions. I mean, first off, you're -- you're always thinking like five steps ahead, because the biggest factor with intervention is overcoming the denial.
So you get all these people that care about the individual, that love the individual -- it comes from a loving place. But you get people that are impactful on their lives -- somebody who's going to be very meaningful and someone who they're going to respect. Usually it's family members and maybe work colleagues.
And the goal is we've got a place picked out, we know exactly where we're going to go and here's how we're going to overcome the denial. And it's planned, like a quarterback in a football team.
MORET: But you're hearing Drew talk about Michael calling his security in to kick everyone out. He's paying the security.
What do you do?
KARIM: Yes. Here comes the problem. When you're treating someone who's not a celebrity, you don't have this -- you know, I call them the enabling entourage, right -- the team of people that are basing their careers off of the celebrity.
In this case, you have to get by that. Now, the only person who can really do that are family members -- if somebody's going to listen to them -- or the individual themselves.
Sometimes what can you do is can you do an intervention based on a mental health issue, like somebody doesn't have capacity to actually take care of themselves. And can you do it that way. You can send somebody to a hospital where they're going to be evaluated, potentially, in an E.R. or for up to 72 hours to -- to see if they have a legitimate problem.
MORET: I want you to listen -- listen to something right now.
Michael's long time dermatologist, Dr. Arnie Klein, was a guest last night on LARRY KING. He treated -- Michael was treated for an addiction years ago.
Let's listen to that clip now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Did Michael have an addiction you were aware of?
KLEIN: Michael, at one time, had an addiction. And he went to England and he withdrew that addiction in a secure setting, where went off of drugs altogether. And what I told Michael when I met him in his present situation where I was seeing him, that I had to keep reducing the dosage of what he was on, because he came to me with a huge tolerance level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Miko, you talk about -- he was treated.
Were you aware -- you knew him at that time, as well, yes?
BRANDO: Correct. Yes.
MORET: And after he came out of the treatment, did you notice a difference in him for a long period of time?
And then did you sense that he was getting back into drugs?
BRANDO: No. Not at all. No.
MORET: So you noticed no changes whatsoever?
BRANDO: No. I mean, he was a better person. I mean he was -- you know, but no. I mean not drastic.
MORET: Dr. Reef, when you go through treatment and then you're -- what do you generally go from one addiction to another, because now we're talking about the potential of addiction to Diprivan, to an anesthesia, which is very different from an opiate, isn't it?
KARIM: Yes. I mean, typically, in the rehab world -- and as an addiction medicine doc, I see opiate problems -- if you're talking prescription pills -- opiate problems, like narcotic analgesics like Vicodin and OxyContin or illicit drugs like heroin; stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin and that group, methamphetamine-based drugs; and then benzos, which are sedative hypnotics, like Xanax and Ativans and Klonopins.
Here, we're looking at Diprivan. Diprivan is a general anesthesia drug. And it's used in an O.R., you know, and is used by anesthesiologists. It's not supposed to be taken at home.
So that's question mark number one -- why is this drug at home?
It's not known to be -- have abuse liability because it's so rare to ever find someone addicted to it. I mean this seems almost like improper use, at some point, by either an individual themselves or by a doc who's kind of running the show, because it's not supposed to be there. That's the bottom line.
MORET: We want to talk about this some more.
More after this.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORET: We're back with breaking news in the Michael Jackson case.
Miko Brando, Ted Rowlands, Drew Griffin, Carlos Diaz and Dr. Reef Karim are helping us sort this all out.
The big news from Larry's interview with Dr. Klein last night focused on Michael and the drug Diprivan.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Did Michael tell you he used Diprivan?
KLEIN: I knew at one point that he was using Diprivan when he was on tour in Germany. And so he was using it, with an anesthesiologist, to go to sleep at night. And I told him he was absolutely insane. I said, you have to understand that this drug, you can't repeatedly take. Because what happens with narcotics, no matter what you do, you build a tolerance to them (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Are you surprised that Diprivan was found in his home, supposedly?
KLEIN: I am very shocked by it, but I have to tell you that it's not something that would be unheard of, because I told him that this drug was very dangerous to use on a regular basis.
KING: And what did he say when you told him?
KLEIN: Well, he listened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Drew Griffin, very quickly, Diprivan, you were reporting, was found in Michael Jackson's home, correct?
GRIFFIN: That's right. And the nurse practitioner, as you remember, Jim, was saying in April, he was asking for that by name. He was asking -- he was basically saying, I will -- I will pay any amount of money to a doctor who will get me Diprivan. This is what he's saying to Cherilyn Lee. And he's describing just how easily that medication, he thought, put him to sleep. We know now that it was really a kind of a narcotic coma that it puts you in.
MORET: Dr. Reef, do you rest with Diprivan?
KARIM: Not really. It's a central nervous system depressant. It just shuts down the system. It's got such a short house life. It brings you right back.
MORET: If you know the doctor prescribing or giving Diprivan to a patient, what do you do?
KARIM: Diprivan is a really common anesthetic in a hospital, not at home. But if you're at home, the first question is, why? That really is -- it sounds so simple. But it's really a legit question. Why? What purpose could you possibly have to put someone under in a home? I mean, you better have an oxygen tank there. You better know the airway, what's happening with their airway. You better know -- you have to have precautions there.
MORET: And Carlos?
DIAZ: That's a great point. Because, I mean, you just said it yourself in the best way possible. Diprivan is not one of these drugs where it's, you know, bottle over-the-counter kind of thing. You have to have oxygen tanks. You have to have an apparatus. You have to have an anesthesiologist there to administer it.
MORET: Drew reported on tour there was a mini clinic.
DIAZ: Exactly. But, see, that's the point. As the police begin to look into this, you're not just looking for something like OxyContin, something that is just, you know, readily available. Diprivan is something that's so rare that it's going to be almost easier to trace because it's not ever administered in that way.
MORET: Miko, did you ever see IVs or any medical equipment at Michael's home?
BRANDO: Never.
MORET: Were you ever aware that he was using anything to go to sleep? Did he ever talk to you about insomnia?
BRANDO: No.
MORET: Did he ever seem -- we heard one doctor describe this tour in '96 where he would bring him down at night and bring him up. Did you ever have any discussions, any notice -- ever notice anything?
BRANDO: No. I wasn't with him all the time. I was working on the tour. So I wasn't with him.
MORET: You were on that tour?
BRANDO: Yes.
MORET: And were you there with Dr. Ratner, the doctor that was with him, an anesthesiologist?
BRANDO: No.
MORET: No.
BRANDO: I didn't -- I mean I was working on the other side of the tour. I wasn't with him all the time.
MORET: Dr. Reef, how likely is it that this could have been kept a secret for years?
KARIM: The Diprivan itself?
MORET: Yes. Or using Diprivan. You need more -- you don't administer it to yourself.
KARIM: Here's the thing, if you've got an entire entourage of people that are all supporting you, and are yes men to you, it could go undetected for years. It happens with -- I mean there are lots of celebrities, not necessarily Diprivan, but a lot of people that have yes people around them are doing things, taking pills maybe other people don't know.
MORET: Larry pressed Dr. Klein for more information about this very same subject. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Did you ever see any IV type equipment in his house?
KLEIN: Never.
KING: Do you ever see Diprivan in his home? Did you ever see it anywhere? KLEIN: No. I never did. And I also told him specifically the dangers of the Diprivan, the dangers of getting it used by someone who is not an anesthesiologist, or someone very --
KING: Did he have an insomnia problem?
KLEIN: Not that I knew of. Except that once we went on tour with him, we were in Hawaii. He couldn't get to sleep. So me and my whole office went to sleep in the room with him. So I never knew that he had a problem with sleep until this whole tour came up, or basically this problem with sleep at that time. I did know that he did certainly, you know, local anesthesia. This is not something we discussed repeatedly. I just got shocked. He assured me he had stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Ted, we've heard throughout this case that there was some people around Michael Jackson that were concerned about him for a long time. You're hearing this as well, members of his own family that were worried that if they didn't step in, as Janet tried to do, something would happen.
ROWLANDS: Yes. But as the doctor said earlier, you're talking about somebody who potentially was an addict. Dr. Klein said he tried to help and then Michael did get help. So I don't think Michael Jackson has reacted any differently than any other addict out there. And people have had interventions with their sons and doctors and husbands and wives for years. And what this case is doing though is bringing the prescription medication problem to light again for national debate. And that could be the one silver lining here.
MORET: We have to take a break right now. We'll update you on breaking news in the Jackson case next. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
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KING: Now there are reports, doctor, that his body was riddled -- I want to get this right -- with needle marks when he died. Did you see any evidence of needle marks?
KLEIN: I didn't examine his entire body.
KING: Did you see any on prior exams?
KLEIN: No. I never saw needle marks on his body. I never saw them that I could tell you. I didn't see a riddling of anything. People made it sound like there were holes in him. There weren't anything like that.
KING: Reports he was emaciated.
KLEIN: He wasn't emaciated. I know dancers because I have worked with dancers many times. Dancers are very concerned about their weight. And so I knew that he always wanted to be thin. And I talked to him about eating enough and making sure he didn't over- exercise. Some dancers, in order to remain thin, will over-dance, in order to keep their weight down.
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MORET: Miko Brando, when you hear Dr. Klein talking about this, when you hear about reports of being riddled with needle marks, and you hear the word addict associated with your friend --
BRANDO: It hurts me. It's ridiculous. We're talking about Michael. He's not here to defend himself. We're speculating.
MORET: We're not condemning him.
BRANDO: We're talking about it.
MORET: Because he has passed away.
BRANDO: Right.
MORET: And doctors -- we're trying to figure out why. He was 50 years old, supposedly in perfect health. Clearly not.
BRANDO: Once the report comes out, it will answer all these questions regarding Michael. For now, we're just speculating.
MORET: Dr. Reef, there are some things can you say, based on what you've just heard. There are some tell-tale signs, aren't there, red flags?
KARIM: It's all based on, you know, stuff that -- comments that people have made. I don't know for a fact because I don't treat him. But if you look at a history of prescription pills, multiple prescription pills, different types of pills, Diprivan in the house, a cardiac arrest; I mean all of those lead to -- there was some kind of problem there involving prescription pills.
And, you know, if you look at the data between 1999 and 2004, prescription pill fatal overdoses have doubled. Six million people or more are abusing prescription pills in this country. I mean, it's not -- this is a big deal.
MORET: Larry also pressed Dr. Klein on another issue, the paternity issue. Klein refused to rule out that he might be the father of Jackson's two oldest children, as some reports suggest.
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KING: Earlier today, you said you couldn't answer that one way or the other.
KLEIN: I still can't answer it absolutely one way or the other.
KING: That means you donated sperm? KLEIN: I once donated sperm. I don't know. You have to know --
KING: Did you donate it to him?
KLEIN: No, absolutely not.
KING: You donated sperm?
KLEIN: I donated sperm for a sperm bank. I don't think I should go over my legal affairs. I think, to the best of my knowledge, I'm not the father. I want to tell you that this discussion, however, is between Michael's children and his person. It's not to be discussed who the father is over national television.
KING: It's no one's business. Except he's become the public's business. Isn't that a fact of life?
KLEIN: Let me tell you something. There is something called private lives. Can't we leave this alone? Can't we leave these children alone? These are brilliant, talented children. And forget this. Understand, this man loved these children. These children loved him.
KING: You don't feel you have to take a DNA test to prove anything?
KLEIN: If they want a DNA test, they can have my DNA. I don't care at this point.
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MORET: Carlos Diaz, your show "Extra" posed an interesting question today about who could be the father of the youngest child, Blanket. You posed the possibility that Miko could be the father. Miko, you're laughing. Are you the father of blanket?
BRANDO: Absolutely not.
MORET: Do you know who the father is? Do you believe Michael is the father? Do you know who the mother is? No. You're laughing.
BRANDO: This is a joke.
MORET: Why?
BRANDO: Come on.
MORET: Paternity is an issue, Ted, you know that -- in California, the reality is that from a legal perspective it doesn't matter because Michael Jackson is the presumed father.
ROWLANDS: I think the other thing about this whole case is that the ridiculousness of it because of who Michael Jackson was. You know, one thing we saw at that memorial was that these kids loved Michael Jackson. And he was their father.
MORET: He clearly he was a beloved dad?
ROWLANDS: That has nothing to do with his death. And it's not going to be part of this investigation. That is the other side. Riddled with the track marks, riddled. Would you ever use that term? No. But when it is Michael Jackson, he is riddled with them. That's the seedy and the sad part of this whole thing.
BRANDO: These kids lost their dad. That's their dad, and that's it. In their eyes, that's their dad.
DIAZ: On "Extra," we interviewed Carry Fisher, who spent Christmas with the Jackson family, she said undeniably that Michael Jackson was an amazing father. That the kids were very well behaved and they weren't raised by nannies. They were raised by Michael Jackson. And all the speculation that's out there, Michael Jackson was their father, not only a father figure, but a true father to these kids.
MORET: That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to separate the fact from the fiction. We'll be back with more. Let's wrap up a major development in the Michael Jackson case tonight. The L.A. police chief confirms that Jackson's doctors are being investigated and that criminal charges could result from the police probe.
Also, the Jackson family is aware of these developments. In addition, doctors not cooperating were issued subpoenas. We're back in 60 seconds.
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MORET: Welcome back. Time for CNN's Hero of the week. Pamela Green Jackson is fighting one of the most serious health challenges facing America's youth, obesity. Here's Larry with a woman who wants to change the world and is doing something about it.
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KING: What made you start this, Pamela?
PAMELA GREEN JACKSON, FOUNDER, CEO YBH PROJECT: Larry, I started the program in 2004 after losing my only brother to complexions of obesity and diabetes. So I wanted to do something to lift that burden from children and other families so they wouldn't have to suffer like my brother or family did.
We started as a pilot program where we converted a vacant classroom in a middle school and tried it as a pilot program, where we worked with the cafeteria manager to change the menu that she prepared at meals. We got the vending machine companies to at least go 50/50 on the healthy-unhealthy items.
The biggest thing was converting that vacant classroom into a health club. Kids had no safe place to go. They didn't have access to the YMCA or any of the health clubs in town.
KING: Are you seeing results? JACKSON: We're seeing a lot of results. The kids have their own personal trainers. They have nutritionists that work with them. They're exposed to a lot of different programs such as martial arts classes. They each do hip hop dance. They do aerobics. They have walking clubs. Pedometers are a big thing, where we challenge them to get at least 10,000 steps a day. And so it's going really, really well.
KING: Obesity is one of the leading causes of preventable death in this country. An estimated 129 million Americans might be overweight or obese. We salute, Pamela. Keep on keeping on.
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MORET: We'll be back with more on the Michael Jackson investigation right after this. Stay with us.
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MORET: Larry last night spoke with Dr. Klein about many situations with Michael Jackson, specifically his skin condition. Watch this.
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KING: How bad was his?
KLEIN: His was bad because he began to get a totally speckled look of his body.
KING: All over his body?
KLEIN: All over his body, on his face, significantly on his hands, which were very difficult to treat.
KING: Let's clear up something. He was not someone desirous of being white?
KLEIN: No. Michael was black and very proud of his black heritage. He changed the world for black people.
KING: How do you treat Vitiligo?
KLEIN: Well, there's certain treatments. You have one choice where you can use certain drugs, plus ultraviolet light treatments, to try to make the white spots turn dark, or his became so severe that the easier way is to use certain creams to make the dark spots turn light. You can even out the pigments.
KING: Your decision there was he would go light?
KLEIN: That's ultimately what the decision had to be because there was too much Vitiligo to deal with.
KING: Otherwise, he would have looked ridiculous.
KLEIN: He would have to wear heavy, heavy makeup on stage. It would be ridiculous. And he couldn't really go out in public without looking terribly peculiar.
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MORET: Miko Brando, this was a friend of yours. Did he ever talk to you about this condition?
BRANDO: You just heard Dr. Klein. That's exactly the truth.
MORET: Was it something that bothered and disturbed Michael Jackson? Was he concerned about what people thought of him?
BRANDO: He had a disease. He got it treated. That's it.
MORET: What do you think his most misunderstood about Michael? What do you want to set the record straight on?
BRANDO: Just a wonderful, honest, nice friend. Always there when you needed him. And he just -- his charm, his wit, his sense of humor. He's just a good guy. Let's start talking about the positive of Michael, not the negative.
MORET: Dr. Reef, you think something positive can come out of even discussing the potential drug abuse, because there are millions of people in this country battling this same addiction?
KARIM: Yes, there is some good to come out of this. If we can highlight the prescription pill dependence epidemic in this country and we can regulate that better, and if we can inform people and educate people about how you have to be your own consumer. Man, you have to know exactly what you take in your body. If you can't do it, or if you're altered in some capacity, you need to have somebody else checking you out to see what it is you're putting in there.
You're your own consumer. There's many, many good doctors in this country. But there are some that really need to be educated, if not reprimanded in some ways, based on the amount of prescription pills that they're willing to prescribe, and what kinds.
MORET: More LARRY KING LIVE coming up. Stay with us.
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MORET: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Jim Moret of "Inside Edition," filling in for Larry. Do you have thoughts on the Michael Jackson death investigation? Logo n to CNN.com/LarryKing and let your voice be heard. While you're there, you can check out Miko's thoughts on what Michael Jackson's legacy will be.
Miko, what do you think people should remember about your friend Michael Jackson, beyond the music?
BRANDO: Just what a wonderful human being he was. I mean, he was just -- I met a lot of people in my life. And I've never met anybody like him. He was just an awesome human being. I miss him very dearly.
MORET: We appreciate having you on here. We know you have a personal perspective. We're not here to beat up your friend. There is an investigation ongoing.
BRANDO: I understand. Let's wait and we'll talk about it once the official --
MORET: Well, Trent Copeland, walk us through what you expect next in this investigation. We've heard an intimation by the L.A. police chief that it's a possibility -- I think his word was corroboration -- that criminal charges may follow in this case. What do you do as a defense attorney representing the doctor?
COPELAND: First thing I am going to tell that doctor is look, I want to know what was your connection with Michael Jackson, and I want to know the extent of that relationship, whether or not you prescribed medications to Michael Jackson. And if in my view, I feel there's some exposure -- that is to say, I feel like my client may be at jeopardy in terms of potentially having some criminal liability here, I may make the decision that I don't want my client to further cooperate.
MORET: You wrote recently that you thought homicide charges could be brought in this case. You think it could rise to the level of a homicide?
COPELAND: I do. Look, I think that's a stretch, but I think it could very well happen if certain links in this chain are connected. That is to find that there were certain medications prescribed to Michael Jackson that were over-prescribed, that the doctor, he or she, may have known what his pre-existing condition was, and notwithstanding that, for money, for the purpose of having a relationship with Michael Jackson, he continued to provide that medication.
If that's corroborated -- those are the chief's words -- if that's corroborated with what's found in those toxicology reports, then we might very well have a situation where one or more doctors are charged with negligent homicide.
MORET: Stacy Honowitz joining us again, Florida assistant state attorney. Do you think homicide charges could be filed? Do you agree with Trent?
HONOWITZ: Absolutely, I agree 100 percent with what he had to say. There has to be a thorough investigation. The problem that we might have is there might not be complete records. If doctors were giving him drugs and not writing prescriptions, there's not going to be records of it.
I think what's also important in this case is not only are you investigating and looking at the trail of the doctors, but you're looking at the people that surrounded him. You have to remember in the Anna Nicole Smith case, Howard K. Stern wasn't a physician, yet he was charged in this for enabling, for obtaining those prescriptions by fraud. I think in this case not only could you maybe have a negligent homicide, but you could also have a lot of the enablers that were helping him around this case being charged with maybe obtaining those drugs for him. It's a wait and see. When the toxicology report comes back, we'll be more clear-minded on it.
MORET: Carlos Diaz, we're looking now, next Monday, at a custody hearing. So there's another element.
DIAZ: There's three elements that we need to look at real quick. The first thing is where he's going to be buried. Where is he going to be put in the ground? The second thing is the custody. Will Debbie Rowe fight for custody?
The third thing is what actually killed Michael Jackson. Those are the three main things we're looking at in this case.
MORET: Miko, where do you want these kids to go? Where do you think they would be best served? The judge is going to look at what's in the best interests of the kids.
BRANDO: Exactly, the best interests of the kids. Right now they're in good hands with his mother.
MORET: With Katherine Jackson?
BRANDO: With Michael's mother.
MORET: Do you think Debbie Rowe is going to fight for custody?
BRANDO: I have no idea.
MORET: Do you know Debbie Rowe very well?
BRANDO: Very well.
MORET: What's your sense of her? She tried to give up the interest in these kids. It was later overturned. Do you think she'll fight for these kids?
BRANDO: I have no idea. Again, we're just speculating. I have no idea. Only she knows.
MORET: Trent?
COPELAND: I think Miko is right, this is pure rank speculation. The reality is that there's going to be a custody battle, and it may not take place in front of the cameras. It may very be that the parties behind the scenes reconcile this.
Believe me, if Debbie Rowe is looking for custody for these children, if she's looking for some ammunition, she's going to point to the age of Katherine Jackson, and the fact that Katherine Jackson herself -- DIAZ: Isn't a factor that because it's known that Debbie Rowe is not the mother of Blanket, the youngest, if you're in favor of Debbie Rowe getting these kids, you're, in essence, in favor of splitting up these three kids.
COPELAND: That's exactly right. I think that's a point that will have to be made, because the courts always look to the best interests of the kids. And they also look to whether or not there's continuity in a family, and the courts --
MORET: Clearly --
BRANDO: The kids all have to stay together.
MORET: They have to stay. This is, unfortunately, the topic now for yet another show. Thank you for watching LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Jim Moret from "Inside Edition." Thank you very much for watching. Time now for Erica Hill and "AC 360." Good night.
