Return to Transcripts main page
Campbell Brown
Sotomayor Hearings Begin; Michael Jackson Murdered?
Aired July 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.
Who killed the parents of 16 children in their own bedroom?
DAVID MORGAN, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA, SHERIFF: The total number of people that we are looking for is six to eight.
BROWN: Police say, the execution-type killings were carried out with military precision. Why would anyone target this family?
Plus, is Sonia Sotomayor a lock for the Supreme Court?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Unless you have a complete meltdown, you're going to get confirmed.
BROWN: Some Republicans still want her out because of her "wise Latina" comment. But until you hear from one of the most controversial nominees in recent history. Judge Robert Bork is tonight's newsmaker.
And was Michael Jackson murdered? That's the claim his sister LaToya is making. Police say it was overdose or homicide. We may see the toxicology report this week. What will the investigation reveal?
Also, President Obama gets personal.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's the most profound decision that I have made since I have been president, and I think about it every day.
BROWN: Anderson Cooper joins us live with his exclusive interview.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
Hi, everybody. Those are our big questions tonight. But we start, as always, with the "Mash-Up," of course our look at all the stories making an impact right now and the moments you might have missed today. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.
And we start with this deepening mystery tonight surrounding the murder of Byrd and Melanie Billings. Threat are the parents of those 16 children. They were gunned down in their Pensacola home on Thursday -- tonight, shocking new details about what exactly may have happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS: Authorities said up to eight people were involved in what amounted to a commando-style assault on the house, where the couple lived with nine of their 16 children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five masked gunmen dressed ninja style went inside. Less than five minutes later, the couple was shot dead.
MORGAN: It leads me to believe that this was a very well-planned and methodical operation.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's video surveillance set up at the house that shows men entering the front and rear of the building. The sheriff's department now believes that there are six to eight people involved in the break-in at this house and the murder of the couple in their home.
This was taken in a Wal-Mart parking lot a couple of weeks ago. This person in the middle is one of the men that has already been arrested and charged with murder in this case. Investigators want to know who these two men are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Melanie Billings' 26-year-old daughter said she is in disbelief.
ASHLEY MARKHAM, VICTIMS' DAUGHTER: They had so much love in their hearts. This was something that they chose to do together as to adopting the children. Their children were special to them. Their children were perfect to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We're going to have a lot more on this case that police are saying reads like a movie script.
In Washington today, lights, camera, action, as the Sonia show kicks off on Capitol Hill. The day-one mission for Judge Sotomayor and her Senate supporters, keep it simple; stay on message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: The progression of my life has been uniquely American.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: It's a truly American story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it represents an American success story that we all can be proud of.
SOTOMAYOR: My record in two courts reflects my rigorous commitment to interpreting the Constitution according to its terms.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Judge Sotomayor's record bespeaks judicial modesty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your record leaves no doubt that you have the intellectual ability.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should focus on your record.
SEN. AL FRANKEN (D), MINNESOTA: You're the most experienced nominee to the Supreme Court in 100 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More federal judicial experience to the Supreme Court than any justice in over 100 years.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Any justice in the past 100 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Judge Sotomayor describes her judicial philosophy as simple, just, in her words, fidelity to the law. Republicans, though, want her to prove it. And today they were sounding pretty on message themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: President Obama says that personal empathy is an essential ingredient in judicial decisions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy for one party is always prejudice against another.
SEN. JON KYL (R-AZ), MINORITY WHIP: We must be confident that Judge Sotomayor is absolutely committed to setting aside her biases.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: ... will faithfully interpret the law and the Constitution without bias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not be swayed by your personal biases.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Sotomayor's now-famous statement that a wise Latina would come to a better conclusion than others.
GRASSLEY: Your wise Latina comment.
KYL: The wise Latina woman quote.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This wise Latino comment has been talked about a lot. But I can just tell you one thing: If I had said anything remotely like that, my career would have been over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, no free ride from Republicans, but no delusions from them either.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: Unless you have a complete meltdown, you're going to get confirmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: No pressure there, Judge.
Later tonight, some fascinating perspective on this from a man all too familiar with confirmation battles. Judge Robert Bork is going to join us a little later.
While Sotomayor's nomination is expected to go through, health care another story. And, today, some tough words from President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, I just want to put everybody on notice, because there was a lot of chatter during the week that I was gone.
We are going to get this done. Inaction is not an option. And for those naysayers and cynics who think that this is not going to happen, don't bet against us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The White House hoping Congress will pass health care reform before their August recess. But is that going to happen? Well, that depends on who you ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: We don't expect it to be signed into law by we expect the August recess.
DAVID GREGORY, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Understood.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: But we expect the House and Senate to have passed bills, yes.
KYL: There is no chance that it's going to be done by August.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We will be on schedule to do as we have planned, to vote for this legislation before we leave for the August recess. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that's highly unlikely, since the Finance Committee doesn't even have a bill drafted yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There really is plenty of time. Congress is going to be in session until Christmas Eve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, there is no reason to rush. We need to get it right, not add debt, not have a Washington takeover.
QUESTION: Is there now a possibility that you won't get legislation by August, as you had hoped?
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Maybe. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We will go with maybe, too.
In Alaska tonight, Sarah Palin in the money -- news that her political action committee raised more than $700,000 in the first half of 2009. Now, that is not too shabby. But it is campaign money, not personal payola.
And that is what Palin is really after, at least according to her almost son-in-law from hell, Levi Johnston. He was on "The Today Show" this morning talking smack about the grandmother of his child, again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, you're saying that she resigned because there was too much good money on the table for her to stay as governor? Is that what you're saying?
LEVI JOHNSTON, EX-FIANCE OF BRISTOL PALIN: Oh, yes, I'm not saying that's -- you know, that's not the only reason. I'm sure there's multiple reasons for what she's got going on. But, yes, that's definitely part of it that she didn't -- she hadn't mentioned. And I know she was coming stressed out. And that's my take on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You went so far as to say, "I think that the fame got to her head."
Do you stand by that? You think the fame got to her head?
JOHNSTON: Yes, a little bit. I think so.
PAT BUCHANAN, NBC NEWS: I think first dude up there in Alaska, Todd Palin, ought to take Levi down to the creek and hold his head underwater until the trashing stops.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right, well. Seriously, Levi, just stop talking.
Our Palin-free punchline tonight courtesy of once Mr. Conan O'Brien. Check out his take when a president meets a pope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": President Obama had a private 35-minute meeting at the Vatican with Pope Benedict. Yes, that's right, folks. The man considered by millions of followers to be infallible had a meeting with Pope Benedict.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Or, as FOX News is reporting it, Obama caught with old man in dress.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Conan O'Brien, everybody.
And that is tonight's "Mash-Up."
Tonight's newsmaker: President Barack Obama. He sat down with Anderson Cooper in Ghana. We have the interview coming up.
And the big question tonight: Who killed the parents of 16 kids in their own bedroom? Police say a group of men carried it out with military precision and that the case is more bizarre than a movie script.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I will tell you this. We are very anxious to share the stories with the citizens of Escambia County and with the nation, if you will. It's going to be a humdinger. I will tell you that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: President Obama is just back from Africa. But, during his visit this weekend, he stopped to give an exclusive interview to my CNN colleague "A.C. 360" anchor Anderson Cooper.
Anderson joining me now with a sneak preview.
And this was the last stop on a big foreign trip.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Right.
BROWN: So, I know there was a lot of ground to cover. But one of the topics you did talk about was Afghanistan. And he spoke pretty frankly about the situation on the ground there right flow. COOPER: Yes.
You know, commanders on the ground there say there's a limited window for success with this current operation, that they really -- and they need more Afghan troops on the ground.
I asked the president if he had a timetable. He wouldn't go that far. But he did talk about the personal impact of sending troops into combat. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: This is the first time you have sent U.S. troops into combat. You sent 21,000, 4,000 Marines right now involved in Helmand Province.
Does it make you think differently about the conflict, knowing that you were the ones who send troops in?
OBAMA: Absolutely. I think it's the most profound decision that I have made since I have been president. And I think about it every day.
You know, I have to sign letters for those who are fallen. We have seen a ramp-up of fighting taking place in Afghanistan. During the G8 summit, I was with Gordon Brown as he received news reports that you had additional British soldiers killed.
The entire coalition is making enormous sacrifices. And, obviously, our soldiers are fighting hard. And, so, I want to make sure that we have got the best possible strategy to succeed in a very limited aim. And that is to ensure that al Qaeda and its allies cannot launch attacks against the U.S. homeland and U.S. interests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He -- as I say, you covered a lot of ground in this interview. And on Africa and on a more personal note, frankly, he talked about how his own heritage and experiences had shaped his perspective on this.
COOPER: Right.
BROWN: What did he tell you?
COOPER: Yes, I asked him about how his father's experiences in Africa -- and we all he didn't have much contact with his father throughout his life -- but how his father's experiences in Africa kind of shaped the way that President Obama sees Africa.
And I should point out we were at Cape Coast Castle in Ghana, which was a holding point for countless numbers of slaves. And the president had just completed a tour with his entire family of these dungeons where tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, perhaps even more than a million, slaves were -- enslaved Africans were forced through, were held in these dungeons. Many of them died there. It was a truly haunting place to go. And so we talked about that, also, the impact of that on his family in this interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Before we walk, I just want to ask you one other question. You talked about your father on this trip. How much of your thoughts about Africa are affected by his experiences, the problems he faced in Kenya with corruption, with tribalism?
OBAMA: I think, yes, his story, but, more broadly, the story of my family in Kenya, which still continues, informs how I think about this.
I -- I...
COOPER: How so?
OBAMA: Well -- well, I'm reminded of the fact that, on the one hand, you have people of extraordinary talent and energy and drive, some of who succeeded, but others who have been blocked because they find themselves in the circumstances that Africans all across the continent find themselves, can't get adequate school fees to get the education they need, try to get a job, and it turns out that you have got to pay a bribe to get that job, you know, living in -- in small villages, in which basic infrastructure still isn't provided and the public health system isn't adequate, so that you're seeing children who, at a very early age, start having significant disadvantages.
You know, when I think about these development issues, I -- they're not abstractions to me. I can put a face and a name to what people are going through. And -- and that makes a difference.
COOPER: Do you think what happened here still has resonance in America, that the -- that the slave experience still is something that -- that should be talked about and should be remembered and should be present in everyday life?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that the experience of slavery is -- is like the experience of the Holocaust. I think it's one of those things you don't forget about.
I think it's important that the way we think about it and the way it's taught is not one in which there's simply a victim and a victimizer, and that's the end of the story. I think the way it has to be thought about, the reason it's relevant, is because, whether it's what's happening in Darfur, or what's happening in the Congo, or what's happening in too many places around the world, the capacity for cruelty still exists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that door behind the president is called the door of no return. It's the actual door through which countless numbers of enslaved Africans were sent to a life of bondage and death even on the high seas. We also talk about don't ask, don't tell, his time table for that, how soon he would like to see that overturned, and a lot of other things.
BROWN: All right, we will look forward to all of that.
Of course, you can see all of Anderson's exclusive interview with the president in just a little bit. That's coming up on "A.C. 360" tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Anderson, thanks much.
And hold on to your wallet tonight. The deficit tops $1 trillion for the first time. And a good reason to swear, researchers say it actually takes away pain. That's all in tonight's "Download."
Plus, Michael Jackson's sister says it was murder. Police say overdose or homicide. We are separating fact from rumor. We're going to bring you the very latest in the investigation as well.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And now let's take a look at some of the other must-see stories of the day.
And let's go to Mike Galanos from our sister network, HLN. He's in Atlanta with tonight's "Download."
Hey, Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Campbell.
For the first time in history, the federal government's annual deficit has passed $1 trillion. And that's only as of the end of June. There are still three months left in the budget year. The Obama administration projects this year's deficit will hit $1.84 trillion, four times the size of last year's deficit.
Well, a secret program to assassinate al Qaeda leaders was reportedly given the green light by the Bush administration back in 2001. But the CIA was ordered by Vice President Cheney not to brief members of Congress on it. Senate Intelligence Committee members say current CIA Director Leon Panetta informed them during testimony last month. Lawmakers say the plan was never carried out and Panetta canceled the assassination program this year.
Well, a doctor who made her mark at a small rural health clinic is President Obama's pick for surgeon general. Dr. Regina Benjamin set up her clinic for the poor on Alabama's Gulf Coast, then rebuilt it after Hurricane Katrina. She also became the first black woman to head a state medical society. Benjamin's nomination now needs Senate confirmation.
Well, a retired American automaker will be tried in Germany for Nazi war crimes. Today, German prosecutors formally charged John Demjanjuk in connection with some 28,000 murders at a Polish death camp during World War II. The U.S. deported the 89-year-old back in May. Demjanjuk denies he was a Nazi guard.
And check out this video, risky rescue today in Georgia after a man plunged some 30 feet. This is off a waterfall. He was walking his son and dog over a creek. Bad move there. Now, this is in Roswell, about 20 miles north of Atlanta. Rescuers used ropes, as you can see here, to reach the man amid the rushing water and the slippery rocks. He's recovering in the hospital, his dog, son, OK.
Finally, this one -- next time you stub your toe, go ahead and curse up a blue streak. A new study suggests there's a link between swearing and tolerance for pain. British researchers say test subjects who swore had an increased heartbeat, which also reduces the intensity of pain. The doctor, by the way, Campbell, got the idea watching his wife give birth to their daughter.
(LAUGHTER)
GALANOS: She was cussing up a blue streak. So, he was like, OK, let's see what this is all about.
BROWN: Oh, that's good. That is a bleeping interesting story there, Mike.
GALANOS: It is. Well put. Well put.
BROWN: Yes, we can't really test it on the air.
GALANOS: No.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: All right, Mike Galanos, thanks. Appreciate it.
GALANOS: Thanks, Campbell.
The parents of 16 children murdered in their home by a group of men. The big question tonight, why did they do it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: This is like a movie script. All right? And the more we delved into this and worked this case, the different avenues that it would go down.
Just when you thought, all right, we're in a straight line at this point with this investigation, it would take a hard right or a hard left, and it was almost as though you had another investigation that you were initiating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: There are new and frightening developments in the shooting deaths of a Florida couple known for adopting children with special needs.
We're now learning as many as eight people may have been behind the attack. Byrd and Melanie Billings were well known in the town of Beulah. That's right near Pensacola. They had adopted 12 kids, in addition to the four that they already had.
But, last Thursday evening, at least five men dressed in dark ninja outfits burst into the Billings' home, shooting the pair repeatedly, passing right by some of the children, apparently, while at least one accomplice waited outside. The killings have devastated the community and left the sheriff bewildered by the sophistication of those involved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: We are very anxious to share this story with the citizens of Escambia County and with the nation, if you will. It's going to be a humdinger. I will tell you that.
The total number of people that we are looking for that are involved in the deaths of the Billings' family is six to eight, six to eight people.
MARKHAM: They had so much love in their hearts. This was something that they chose to do together as to adopting the children. Their children were special to them. Their children were perfect to them. They just -- they had more love than anybody could ever imagine giving one person, much less 17.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
been Some of the suspects are now in custody, but others not yet caught.
Our David Mattingly is covering the case. He's in Pensacola for us tonight, along with Rob Williams, who is a news anchor for WNRP News Radio in Pensacola, as well, and here in New York, Jami Floyd, anchor of "In Session."
Welcome to everybody.
David, let me start with you.
We heard police this was a murder that this was a murder unfolded, in the police chief's word, like a movie script. Today, though, they provided some surveillance video. Walk us through what that is.
MATTINGLY: Well, we have got two pieces of surveillance video to show you.
First of all, this came from the family's house. This was part of the surveillance system they had set up outside and inside the house. You can see men running across the yard, going into what is a back door of the house.
While they were doing that, there was another team going in the front door. You can see how they're dressed. They're dressed in dark clothes. They have faces covered with a mask. The sheriff described them as dressed like ninjas. So, you can see them there going into the house.
This was all very precise. They say it looks like they had practiced this and were very well-prepared when they attacked this house. Now, another piece of surveillance video we have to show you is actually a still photo that came from a surveillance camera at Wal- Mart here in the Panhandle a couple of weeks ago.
In this, you see Leonard Gonzalez Jr. He's the man standing in the middle. He is one of the men that are arrested so far and charged with murder in this case. The two men on either side of him, authorities don't know who they are. But they believe they might be involved and they want to know who these men are.
Those are two of the people they are still looking for and have not identified -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, just quickly, David, the child in that photograph appears to be the child of the primary suspect or the man who is now in custody; is that right?
MORGAN: That is right. That's the child of Leonard Gonzalez Jr -- Leonard Gonzalez Jr. now in jail, along with two other men. He's one of two charged with murder in this case.
BROWN: All right, Jami, police said today that they believe there were multiple motives, robbery being one of them, but what else? I mean, clearly there's more here than just that, right?
(CROSSTALK)
JAMI FLOYD, "IN SESSION" ANCHOR: Yes.
This is one of the most bizarre cases I have ever seen in 20 years of covering these kinds of cases and working as a lawyer. I mean, as many as eight possible assailants and a couple that had, as their adult daughter said, nothing but love in their heart, and very important to this community, with 16 children under their wings.
BROWN: Right.
FLOYD: You have to think there's something more going on here.
This is well-planned, well-executed, and has to be about more than just money. But what? What would the motives be? Could these people have known their assailants or at least some number of them before this went down?
BROWN: Police clearly know more than they're telling us right now. Is that what they seem to be suggesting, I mean, when you listen to the police chief? FLOYD: I think they are suggesting that, but they want to be very careful not to say too much. They want the suspects or those in the public who may know more to come forward with that information, so that they can put the pieces of the puzzle together, without leading, without leading the suspects or those members of the public who may be innocent, but may have important information to share.
BROWN: Rob, let me bring you into this.
I know the family was known to have money. They were also known to have just been incredibly generous about taking in all of these children, these children with special needs.
Tell us what -- how the community is reacting to this. I'm guessing they're fairly devastated.
ROB WILLIAMS, WNRP ANCHOR: The reaction is pretty simple, Campbell.
Let me give you an idea. This is the headline from last Friday, "Couple Killed." We go to Saturday, where it says, "Questions Need to be Answered." Then, we go Sunday, "The Van Found," and then today, "Two Charged With Murder." These headlines keep getting bigger every day. It's going to be that way tomorrow as well.
And I talked to sheriff David Morgan in the last half-hour. He says there will be another news briefing tonight. He will probably be announcing one and maybe as many as two additional arrests.
He said -- told me there were four unidentified black males involved in this, plus an unidentified white man, so a total of five people that they're looking for right now.
And there was a meeting late this afternoon involving the sheriff's department, the state attorney's office -- And you ready for the alphabet soup here? -- the IRS, the DEA, the ATF, and the FBI. He said everybody in federal law enforcement, except for the U.S. Marshals Service. This is just getting bigger and bigger as we go along.
BROWN: What does that say to you, Jami?
FLOYD: Well, whenever you have multiple services involved, it suggests something much bigger than a simple robbery. It suggests that these people may have connections not only to one another but beyond the group immediately involved. And certainly, and not to disparage this department, but this is a case much bigger than a small jurisdiction like this would be accustomed to having to deal with and one bigger than they've ever seen before. So I'm sure they welcome the assistance of the FBI and the others.
BROWN: Rob, let me go back to you and just ask you if you know anything about this because it's been -- I've been very curious. Nine kids were in the home at the time of the murder. What do we know about what these kids may have seen? Are they witnesses here? Do we have any idea? WILLIAMS: At least three of the children did see the masked men come into the house. Now, understand, a lot of these kids are special needs kids. They are Down syndrome kids. And they've got, you know, a cystic fibrosis --cerebral palsy, I guess, is what I wanted to say there. And so their ability to communicate may be somewhat limited but they are well-protected now. They are with family.
And the sheriff is saying that every deputy he has is on the streets right now. Florida law enforcement is on alert. They're going to find these guys sooner or later.
Yes, it may be a smaller town or a smaller jurisdiction but they're going to apply good old-fashioned small-town law enforcement. They're going to get their men here.
BROWN: All right.
FLOYD: A fascinating point that they spared these children. That's another bizarre part of this case. You have this well-executed four-minute plan. And yet, these children are spared. Bizarre.
BROWN: Well, as Rob pointed out, we're going to find out more this evening. We will be updating you, of course, on the story as we do get more information. Many thanks to Rob Williams, for us down in Pensacola tonight, as well as David Mattingly, and, of course, Jami Floyd here with me in New York.
When we come back, explosive allegations from Michael Jackson's family. La Toya Jackson says her brother was murdered. We're looking for facts when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Members of Michael Jackson's family are going public with their suspicions about his death. La Toya Jackson says her brother was murdered. And there are also shocking allegations tonight from Michael Jackson's father, Joe Jackson. Brian Todd has more on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FATHER: Michael probably had been dead a long time before they started taking him to the hospital. When you don't revive a person, and so be it, you know? The doctor, they couldn't find in three days or something, that's what made me believe something's wrong here.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Contacted by CNN, representatives for Dr. Murray's attorneys wouldn't comment on Joe Jackson's remarks but referred to a statement issued Saturday by Attorney Edward Chernoff that said in part, "Dr. Conrad Murray continues to be fully cooperative with the Los Angeles Police Department and the medical examiner's office."
Dr. Murray's attorneys had previously said investigators told them that Murray was a witness not a suspect in this investigation. Joe Jackson had voiced suspicion previously in the days just after Michael's death to CNN's Don Lemon.
JACKSON: I have a lot of concerns.
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What are your concerns about?
JACKSON: I can't get into that. But I don't like what happened.
TODD: Completely separate from any discussions about Dr. Murray, Jackson's sister, La Toya, tells two British newspapers that she believes Michael Jackson was murdered. La Toya Jackson told the "Daily Mail" her brother was worth more than $1 billion and said he was surrounded by people who didn't have his best interest at heart. And he was worth more dead than alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Some pretty explosive allegations, but do the facts support them?
Joining me now from Los Angeles, Sharon Waxman, who is editor- in-chief of TheWrap.com, Jim Moret, former CNN anchor and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition," and in Washington, CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin as well.
Jim, let me start with you on this. First, Joe Jackson, and now La Toya both alleging foul play. And there are reports that the family has seen these private autopsy results. What do you make of it all?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": I think that they're concerned. I think that we've heard -- we've heard about Diprivan being on the scene. We've heard that the family was very concerned for some time that Michael Jackson was under the influence of drugs and that people around him were enabling him.
And I think that if, in fact, the coroner's report reveals that Diprivan was the cause of death, I think that you're going to see some charges filed. I mean, Jeff is even better at talking at this than I am. But I would think that you're talking criminal negligence or possibly involuntary manslaughter.
BROWN: Jeff?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Whoa, I think that's a long way to go based on the evidence we know. The one thing we do know is that Michael Jackson, himself, had an unhealthy relationship with all sorts of prescription drugs. He, himself, did not use these drugs in an appropriate way.
So the first question I think anybody's going to have to answer is what was his own role in his death before anyone starts accusing a doctor or anyone else of committing a crime. I just think it's unfair to the doctor.
MORET: I agree with you. I'm not suggesting that this doctor was involved. But if there's Diprivan there, Jeff, you can't get that yourself. You and I cannot walk into any pharmacy and get Diprivan. Just can't do it.
BROWN: But let me -- hold on. Let me get your take quickly on this, Jim, and then I want to go to Sharon.
Conrad Murray who was his personal physician was mentioned specifically for the first time by Joe Jackson today. Does he seem to be the focus of the investigation at least from what you're hearing now?
MORET: Yes, he was the last person there. I mean, I think clearly they want to talk to him. They want to see exactly what the facts were.
What medication was he taking? Why didn't he call 911 for 20 to 30 minutes? That's what he said, himself. I think that there are a lot of questions still left unanswered and that's why, I think, the police continue to investigate this.
BROWN: Sharon, apart from the family's private autopsy, of course, we've learned also today that the state toxicology results could be released as early as this Friday. What are we going to learn from that?
SHARON WAXMAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THEWRAP.COM: Right. Well, I think that we're going to learn a lot more than we know right now. And I think that we can't really have these very speculative conversations, honestly, about charges, murder, things like that until we actually see the reports of the toxicology -- that autopsy from the coroner.
Whatever the family has found in its second autopsy, we have not been made privy to that. And until we have some more facts about what actually killed Michael Jackson, I think it's premature to be talking about criminal charges.
The legal experts I have spoken to say that, in fact, it's very hard to prove the felony charges that would come up in the case of doctors who are actually illegally prescribing medications. That's something that is hard to prove.
BROWN: Let me ask you all about the custody front. There have been some reports, Jim, that there is a possible deal in the works. Again, trying to separate some fact from fiction here to the extent we can. Do we know for sure?
MORET: I've been told by a close friend of the family that he believes this will be settled out of court. He believes that the children will stay with Katherine Jackson. The question is, of course, will Joe Jackson be involved in raising those kids?
We know that the will calls specifically for Katherine to be the guardian. And when Katherine went to court before they knew of a will, she went alone, not with Joe Jackson. But I think in some odd way Joe Jackson's statements may have helped bring these two sides together because Debbie Rowe stated publicly that she was considering seeking a restraining order against Joe Jackson. And we know that the hearing set for today has been moved a week and I'm told that's because the parties are talking.
BROWN: And, Sharon, I know that you've reported on this as well, saying that people around Debbie Rowe are trying to sort of clean up her image a little bit before the schedule (ph) get on her way.
WAXMAN: Yes, well, I think the -- yes, I think that there's been a lot of knocking around at Debbie Rowe and understandably so. By the way, she's someone who bore a couple of children and then turned her back on them for some money. But it doesn't necessarily mean that what she's out -- that what she's out for in this instance is more money.
Let's remember that when she got divorced from Michael Jackson, she took a relatively small amount of money to go away where she would have had the right under California law to have the money that he earned while they were married. She didn't seek that. What she said -- what basically her camp is saying is that she's concerned about Joe Jackson's presence around the children.
She's concerned that Katherine Jackson is elderly. She's 79 years old. How long is she going to live? And that the children be cared for together and not have ongoing disruption in their lives as they're raised.
So, it is true that from all the people that we're talking to also tell us that there is a discussion going on between the lawyers, Katherine Jackson's lawyers and Debbie Rowe's lawyers, but they are preparing some presentation, some plan that is going to come to court. That's what we're given to understand.
BROWN: All right. Sharon Waxman for us tonight, along with Jim Moret as always, and Jeff Toobin joining us from Washington as well, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
Tonight, we are debuting the "Wing Nut Watch." Find out who is taking political stands to the extreme.
Plus, we want to know what you think of all of tonight's big stories and hot topics. Check out our brand new live blog where you can post a comment. Right now, log on at this very moment to CNN.com/Campbell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time now for a new segment we are calling the "Wing Nut Watch." Our next guest, Daily Beast contributor, John Avlon, calls out somebody on the left and right who divides us rather than unites us.
And, John, I know, you're looking for people who are playing to the extremes in politics. Who went a little bit too far this week?
JOHN AVLON, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, this week we have a newly elected chairman of the young Republicans. Audra Shay, a 38-year-old from Louisiana, who at normal times it wouldn't be much of a story. But it turns out that before the election, Miss Shay made a series of comments on her Facebook page and other places that were way over the line. Racial comments and general wing nuttiness that made her a very controversial candidate in light of her election this weekend was a surprise to many folks. Let's just take a look at one of the things that threw a lot of ire.
A supporter on her homepage wrote, "Obama-bin Laden is the new terrorist. Muslim is on their side. Need to take this country back from all these mad coons and illegals." To which Audrey Shay replied, "You tell them, Eric. LOL."
BROWN: Wow.
AVLON: Wow. Yes, so needless to say, this didn't go over real well. And a lot of especially young African-American Republicans were offended.
Writing for "The Daily Beast," I started digging and finding out that there was really a pattern of these types of comments on her sites. And, of course, all this does is cements stereotypes that are holding the Republican Party back big time.
Now, once it started to get pressed, she did issue an apology, we should say, straining credibility. But she did issue an apology.
BROWN: Well, as you say, not exactly the image, I think, as the Republican Party as they struggle to try to attract minorities right now is wanting to convey.
AVLON: The exact opposite. I mean, I think there is a culture going on inside the Republican Party. But Abraham Lincoln is losing that culture war.
The party has basically a huge diversity deficit, a real problem attracting young people. And when this vote takes the step -- appear to endorse these comments with full knowledge, all it does is put out a huge "not welcome sign" in front of the GOP that solidifies all the negative stereotypes that they're going to have to overcome to reconnect to a new generation and to broaden their base in terms of diversity. So it's a real problem in this election. This figure is going to have real ramifications throughout the national party, I'm afraid.
BROWN: All right. John Avlon for us tonight.
AVLON: Thank you.
BROWN: John, thanks very much.
And we have a wonderful story to share with you tonight. A celebration and competition in Baghdad. Baghdad, of all places -- yes, Baghdad, where the power of sport is overcoming the heartbreak of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: This is truly huge. One of Baghdad's (INAUDIBLE), grand days. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If you have followed our coverage of the war in Iraq, you've certainly seen CNN's Michael Ware. He has been the guy on the ground with the troops since the war began six years ago and he's just about seen it all until now.
Michael has our "Breakout" story tonight. His report doesn't come from the battlefield, rather the soccer field.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WARE: Welcome to international football, Baghdad-style. This is Iraq's first time international since (INAUDIBLE) imposed its ban in 2002 in the lead-up to the U.S.-led invasion.
Just here. Excuse me, guys. Excuse me. Iraq is playing its first home game, here against Palestine and the Friendly.
This is an incredible scene. This stadium is chock a block filled to capacity with intense security as the war continues. But it's this game, this that has been the Iraqi people's disconnect from the horror around them.
This is what's the only thing that's united the Iraqi people. When they won the Asian Cup, the sectarian violence, the entire war paused for just a moment as the entire country celebrated. Today, we see it again.
This is truly huge. One of Baghdad's (INAUDIBLE) grand days. And it's football that's connected everybody together.
Michael Ware, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Finally, a good news story out of Baghdad and a very excited Michael Ware there.
When we come back, few people know what it's like to get beaten up at a Senate confirmation hearing and then rejected. Well, our next new maker does. Robert Bork has some advice for Sonia Sotomayor when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tomorrow is "D-Day" for Sonia Sotomayor. The day she finally begins answering questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee as her confirmation hearings continue. So tonight, we wanted to take a look back at what some recent Supreme Court nomination battles had been like. Think of this as the greatest hits.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: He has consistently demonstrated his hostility towards equal justice for all. In Robert Bork's America, there is no room at the end for blacks and no place in the constitution for women. An in our America, there should be no seat on the Supreme Court for Robert Bork.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Are you really a closet bigot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not any kind of a bigot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, you're not.
CLARENCE THOMAS, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT: This is a circus. It is a high-tech lynching for uppity-blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves.
ANITA HILL, ACCUSED CLARENCE THOMAS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT: He talked about pornographic material, depicting individuals with large penises or large breasts involved in various sex acts.
THOMAS: I did not discuss any pornographic material.
HILL: He referred to the size of his own penis as being larger than normal. And he also spoke on some occasions of the pleasures he had given to women with oral sex.
THOMAS: I've heard enough lies.
HILL: One of the oddest episodes I remember was an occasion in which Thomas was drinking a Coke in his office. He got up from the table at which we were working, went over to his desk to get the Coke, looked at the can and asked, who has put pubic hair on my Coke?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, needless to say, that was one of the most controversial moments in the history of Supreme Court nominations from the Clarence Thomas hearings back in 1991.
Now just a little while ago, I talked to the last nominee who was actually rejected by the Senate. That was Robert Bork, a former federal appeals court judge and also the author of "A Time to Speak: Selected Writings and Arguments." I asked him what lies ahead for Sonia Sotomayor, whether she will hit a speed bump over her suggestion that a wise Latina would make better decisions than a white man.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Her wise Latina comment has been brought up again and again. Should that in your view -- should that, alone, disqualify her?
ROBERT BORK, FMR. FEDERAL APPEALS COURT JUDGE: Well, yes, I would say it should except for the fact that we don't disqualify other people for similar remarks. I don't think what she said is consistent with the job of a judge.
On the other hand, the woods are full of people out there who are making remarks which are not consistent with their role as judges. So she's not uniquely political.
She is political, I think, and I think we're not going to -- Republicans are not going to be happy with her when she's on the bench. But I don't think that one remark, although she said it several times, I don't think that will prove to be disqualifying, nor do I think it should unless we're enforcing stricter standards that we have been enforcing.
BROWN: Senator Lindsey Graham, today, joked, that unless Judge Sotomayor has a meltdown, she is ultimately going to be confirmed. So, in your view, when it comes to the big issues like abortion, like gun control, like affirmative action, how do you think she will change the current court?
BORK: Not much. I've heard it said by one colleague of hers that she would prove to be slightly to the left of David Souter. But there's not much room to go left of David Souter. So I don't think her replacement of Souter does anything except ensure a liberal vote past the time when Souter would have retired in any event. They're going to change the court today, but it will entrench a liberal bloc on the court.
BROWN: Finally, Judge Bork, if you had it to do over again, if you were back in that chair once again, is there anything that you would do differently if it meant that you would be confirmed?
BORK: BORK: Well, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
I don't know -- I don't know that, I mean, I'd be confirmed or not, but I think I could have been more intelligent in my approach and more aware of what was taking place. I kept responding to questions as if it was a rational discussion, which it wasn't. I think I would have taken that into account more if I were to do it over again.
BROWN: Given that, what's your best advice to her?
BORK: Don't lose your temper. She'll be -- she'll be confirmed if she -- if she doesn't, as was said, if she doesn't melt down. There's no reason why she should melt down. And if she just maintains an even emotional temper, she'll be confirmed easily.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And you can see the rest of my interview with Judge Robert Bork online. Check it out on our brand new Web site.
And give us your comments on the blog. Go to CNN.com/Campbell.
That's it for tonight. Thanks for joining us. "LARRY KING LIVE" starting right now.
