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American Morning
Day Two of Sonia Sotomayor's Confirmation Hearing; Supreme Court and Race; House Calling for Investigation on Secret CIA Program; Doctor Peddling Hope or Cure?; Is Clinton Being Silenced?; How Senators Will judge Sotomayor?; Jackson's Sister's Explosive Allegation; Jackson Custody Deal in Works; Billions to Community Colleges
Aired July 14, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING on this Tuesday, July 14. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm John Roberts. You know what today is? A very significant day in the Tour de France. And you know why?
CHETRY: Oh, it's the uphill climb.
ROBERTS: It's Bastille Day.
CHETRY: It is. And it's the uphill climb leg, right, that Lance Armstrong is very, very good at?
ROBERTS: Not today. That's later this week. But it is Bastille Day. It's Bastille Day. Le Marche (ph) will be starting across France today.
We're following several developing stories. This morning we'll be breaking them down for you in the next 15 minutes.
The senators have all laid down their markers. Now the tough questions start today for Judge Sonia Sotomayor.
The Supreme Court nominee squarely in the hot seat in a little more than three hours. That's when day two of her Senate confirmation hearing gets under way. In just a moment, how Republicans plan to take her to task on two fronts.
CHETRY: Imagine this, you're in a plane and suddenly the cabin loses pressure at 30,000 feet. Then you're told there is a hole in the fuselage the size of a football. You can actually look right through the plane and see the outside.
Well, it happened to passengers on a Southwest jet. It turns out it landed safely but a lot of questions this morning. We're going to have more on that.
ROBERTS: And a CNN exclusive. You or someone you love is dying. You're told that there's no cure then one doctor offers hope. Experimental treatments overseas at a very steep price. Ahead, Drew Griffin of the special investigations unit on stem cell therapies, a doctor who sells them, and one patient who swears by them.
But we begin this morning, in Washington, where in a little more than three hours at 9:30 Eastern, members of the Senate Judiciary Committee will begin questioning Judge Sonia Sotomayor.
CHETRY: And there could be some fireworks when Republicans get the floor. Our Brianna Keilar is live on Capitol Hill.
And, you know, the question a lot of people are asking is how aggressive Republicans are prepared to get when it comes to questioning Judge Sonia Sotomayor today, especially given that for the most part, they have the votes to get her confirmed.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This does give Republicans the freedom to ask some pretty tough questions, John and Kiran. And the indication was put out yesterday with opening statements that they are going to be asking some pretty uncomfortable questions.
And remember yesterday was strongly worded. We heard from Republicans, but it was scripted. And today the script goes out the window.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR (voice-over): With Republicans questioning whether her background and personal experience will trump the letter of the law, Sonia Sotomayor confronted their concerns head-on.
JUDGE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: In the past month, many senators have asked me about my judicial philosophy. Simple -- fidelity to the law. The task of a judge is not to make law, it is to apply the law.
KEILAR: Republicans will focus on one of Sotomayor's rulings against an appellate judge against white firefighters who claim they were victims of discrimination. The Supreme Court recently reversed the decision, an indication say conservatives Sotomayor showed bias towards minority firefighters.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: Judge Sotomayor's empathy for one group of firefighters turned out to be prejudice against another.
KEILAR: Republicans will question statements Sotomayor has made off the bench in years past, especially this one -- "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It just bothers me when somebody wearing a robe takes the robe off and says that their experience makes them better than someone else. I think your experience can add a lot to the court, but I don't think it makes you better than anyone else.
KEILAR: Democrats say it's exactly that. Her experience in the courtroom that makes her qualified to sit on the Supreme Court. And they argue there is nothing wrong with bringing life experience to the bench.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: This should be unremarkable and, in fact, it's completely appropriate. After all, our own committee members demonstrate the value that comes from members who have different backgrounds and perspective.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: Now here is how today will work. Each senator on the Judiciary Committee will question Sotomayor for 30 minutes. And this will be a delicate dance. They will prod her, Republicans in particular, with politically charged questions and Sotomayor will walk a narrow line essentially, John and Kiran, trying to reveal as little as possible.
CHETRY: All right. Brianna Keilar for us this morning. And again, these hearings get set in about three and a half hours. So we're going to have much more on that this morning.
Also later, we're going to be speaking to two senators who get a chance to question Judge Sotomayor today. At 7:10 Eastern, Democrat Chuck Schumer of New York joins us. And then at 7:30, we're going to be speaking to Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah.
ROBERTS: And of the 158 Supreme Court nominees who have preceded Judge Sonia Sotomayor, she is just the fourth woman and the first Hispanic nominee for the high court. But she is not the first outspoken nominee.
CNN's Jim Acosta live in Washington with that part of the story.
Good morning, Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Wise Latina women -- we've heard those words before Republicans have seized on those words from Sonia Sotomayor to question whether she would use race to play favorites on the high court. She'll have a chance to answer that charge today. And as history shows, Sotomayor is hardly the first Supreme Court hopeful who was once outspoken on the subject of race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): A Puerto Rican who also grew up in a Bronx housing project, Congressman Jose Serrano is scheduled to testify on behalf of Sonia Sotomayor this week. He, like many Latinos, sees Sotomayor as a Thurgood Marshall for Hispanics.
REP. JOSE SERRANO (D), NEW YORK: Throughout the neighborhood people actually are using her more than anyone else as an example of what can happen if you apply yourself and work hard.
ACOSTA: Senator Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the committee holding Sotomayor's confirmation hearing, reminded his colleagues that Marshall, a civil rights attorney who fought segregation also had to answer important questions on race.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: He's asked questions designed to embarrass her, questions such as, are you prejudiced against the white people of the South? I hope that's a time from our past.
ACOSTA: It was a preemptive strike aimed at Republican Jeff Sessions, who went on to challenge Sotomayor on her remark about being a wise Latina woman. Sessions argued Sotomayor could bring prejudice to the high court.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: I will not vote for and no senator should vote for an individual nominated by any president who is not fully committed to fairness and impartiality toward every person who appears before them.
ACOSTA: In truth, Sotomayor was nowhere near as outspoken as Marshall.
THURGOOD MARSHALL, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I do not think that President Eisenhower has done anywhere near what he could have done.
ACOSTA: More than a half century ago, Marshall sat down with a cigarette smoking Mike Wallace on the TV program "Night Beat" where a no-holds barred interview on civil rights.
MIKE WALLACE, HOST, "NIGHT BEAT": As far as you are concerned, it's been a plague on both your Houses, both your parties, as far as an attitude towards race relations.
MARSHALL: I think that in Congress today, the only bipartisan action is against civil rights and Negroes rights.
ACOSTA: In those days, that was radical.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thurgood Marshall challenged the American justice system for decades before he went on the Supreme Court. Sonia Sotomayor worked very much within that system and did not challenge it nearly as much.
ACOSTA: After weeks of silence, Sotomayor tried to turn down the heat.
JUDGE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: In the past month, many senators have asked me about my judicial philosophy. Simple -- fidelity to the law.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And she'll have to hope that one gets replayed over and over. While she did mention her Puerto Rican heritage in her opening remarks, Sotomayor did not directly address her wise Latina woman comment. Those fireworks are still to come -- John.
ROBERTS: Amazing to see that old footage of Mike Wallace and Thurgood Marshall. ACOSTA: Smoking.
ROBERTS: And then to see how outspoken he was.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. He was very outspoken and in many ways he was a radical before even reaching the high court. And those words were spoken by Thurgood Marshall more than a decade before he was put on the high court.
ROBERTS: We'll be watching very closely to see if there's fireworks today. Jim Acosta in Washington. Jim, thanks so much.
We want to know what you think, by the way, about Judge Sonia Sotomayor's confirmation hearings. Just head to our blog. You can find it at CNN.com/amFIX.
And remember, you can watch Judge Sotomayor's confirmation hearings live. It's the questioning day today right here on CNN. It all begins at 9:30 Eastern live on CNN and CNN.com.
CHETRY: And back to another story this morning. A major scare at 30,000 feet. This is the Southwest Airlines flight that was headed to Baltimore from Nashville. Had to make an emergency landing in Charleston, West Virginia, after the cabin lost pressure? Why? Because a football-sized hole in the fuselage just appeared.
They still don't know what caused it. Passengers say they could actually look through it and see the sky. No one was hurt. And, again, they still don't know exactly what caused it. But, all 181 of Southwest's 737s were inspected overnight.
ROBERTS: And good news/bad news when it comes to your safety on the road. A government study finds that fewer Americans are driving drunk.
In a survey conducted in 2007, just 2.2 percent had a blood alcohol level above the legal limit. That compared to 7.5 percent when the first survey was taken back in 1973. But the survey did find one in six drivers randomly pulled over on weekend nights did test positive for drugs.
CHETRY: NASA is going to try once again to launch space shuttle Endeavour tomorrow night. Thunderstorms forced NASA to scrub last night's lift off. This is the fifth time this mission had to be delayed. When Endeavour finally does take off, the crew will attempt a highly technical mission to construct a front porch on the International Space Station.
It's eight and a half minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." Eleven minutes after the hour right now. A look at some of the stories new this morning. A group of black and Hispanic kids were asked to leave a private swim club outside of Philadelphia say they will not go back to the facility. And attorneys for the largely minority day care center say they plan to sue the swim club in the next few days. The Valley Swim Club insists the kids were turned away because of overcrowding, not their race.
ROBERTS: Wall Street swindler Bernie Madoff is a far cry from his Manhattan cell. According to a government Web site, he has been transferred to a medium security prison in Atlanta. It's still not known if that's where he's going to serve out his 150-year term. Madoff's lawyer had requested the 71-year-old be sent to a federal prison in Upstate New York so it would be easier for his wife to come and visit.
CHETRY: And this morning, President Obama's pick for surgeon general now preparing for her Senate confirmation. Dr. Regina Benjamin nominated yesterday. She's a rural family practice doctor who spent much of her career working with poor and uninsured patients in Alabama. She also became the first black woman to head a state medical society.
ROBERTS: Well, this morning, Democrats are demanding an investigation into charges that former Vice President Dick Cheney broke the law. He is accused of ordering the CIA to keep Congress in the dark about a counterterrorism program that never got off the ground. But some Republicans accuse Democrats of playing politics.
Joining me to talk more about this is California Congresswoman Anna Eshoo. She is a member of the House Intelligence Committee. She's calling for an investigation in these charges.
Congresswoman, why do you want a full investigation?
REP. ANNA ESHOO (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think that number one, because we don't know the facts. What we do know according to the director of the CIA who briefed the House Intelligence Committee on June 24th, that there was a program that was put into place in 2001 and that he stopped it on June 23rd of this year. And so we need to establish the facts.
We do know that there was an order to conceal the program from the Congress, which I believe flies in the face of the National Security Act of 1947. So I think that we need to investigate. We need to establish the facts, follow them, know exactly what happens, who gave the order, why, where did it go, where did the money come from. And I think that that's the way to go.
ROBERTS: Now you're getting some pushback on this from your Republican colleagues in Congress, particularly on the House Select Intelligence Committee who are saying, well, wait a second here. This program was never fully operational. Why did Congress need to be briefed?
We understand from certain reports that this was a program that was supposed to send teams into hostile areas, try to execute Al Qaeda leaders. The "New York Times" reports that plans were vague, never carried out. And the ranking Republican on your committee, Peter Hoekstra, told the "New York Times" "that he would not judge the agency harshly in the case of the identified program because it was not fully operational." So, if the program was not fully operational, does Congress need to be informed? What are the rules regarding that?
ESHOO: The National Security Act calls on the executive branch to fully and completely inform the Congress through the Intelligence Committee. Now these are all reports. I read all of the open source material, but I can't confirm that. And the CIA director certainly didn't go to detail and say the things that Mr. Hoekstra is saying.
So I've read what you've said, but I don't know whether that's the case or not. I think that this is serious. And in listening to the program before this one, I love the words Judge Sotomayor and that is fidelity to the law. We are a nation of laws. And the CIA has laws that they must comply with. And there's a very good reason for that.
A balance between the executives and the legislative branch and this goes straight to the heart of the responsibility that we have at the House Intelligence Committee, as members of Congress to investigate.
ROBERTS: Right. And on that point, congresswoman -- fidelity.
ESHOO: And it's all about national security.
ROBERTS: And on that point about fidelity to the law, do you believe that the former vice president broke the law if, indeed, he ordered the CIA to keep the secret from Congress?
ESHOO: Well, we have to establish the facts. We have to know exactly what happened. The CIA director gave some indications of who was involved, but it was brief. It was a briefing. We by no means went into great detail on June 24.
ROBERTS: But what's your sense of it, though, you know, regarding the 1947 National Security Act? If the vice president did say to the CIA director at the time, do not tell -- do not inform the Intelligence Committees, the relevant people in Congress about this program, would that be a violation of the law?
ESHOO: In my view, it is, in reading the National Security Act. This is not whether an agency feels like informing the Congress.
There is a law. The law is very clear. It's explicit. And that directive regardless of what administration it is or who is in the Congress...
ROBERTS: Right.
ESHOO: ... this is not about parties, it's about the law.
ROBERTS: And you're also looking for a clarification from CIA Director Panetta. You and six other members of the House Select Committee on Intelligence have sent a letter to him asking him to correct a statement that he made back on May 15th when he was reacting to a statement from Nancy Pelosi that she was misled by the CIA about waterboarding. You want him to amend that statement, why?
ESHOO: Well, because the words simply don't stand any longer. The director's words were, and I'm paraphrasing, that the CIA does not mislead the Congress. And this doesn't stand any longer.
In fact, the program was concealed from him as well.
ROBERTS: Right. However --
ESHOO: He was briefed on the 23rd of June. And he was seated as the director of the CIA of at least four months before that.
ROBERTS: However, congresswoman, you said at the beginning of this that you haven't established the facts here. So is it premature to send that letter?
ESHOO: I don't believe so, no. Because the -- the CIA director informed the committee that the information was concealed and that it was ordered to be concealed.
ROBERTS: All right. Congresswoman Anna Eshoo, it's good to talk to you this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.
ESHOO: Thank you.
ROBERTS: I know it's very early.
ESHOO: Thank you.
ROBERTS: We really appreciate you coming in.
ESHOO: Thank you.
ROBERTS: All right.
CHETRY: Well, a Florida doctor is charging seriously ill patients tens of thousands of dollars for really experimental stem cell treatments overseas. It was a CNN special investigation in this. We're going to meet the doctor who says his treatments work, a patient who swears by them, and those who believe that he's preying on people with no place left to turn.
It's 18 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." A CNN exclusive now. A Florida doctor opens a clinic in the Dominican Republic and he claims to be saving lives by using controversial stem cell therapies.
CHETRY: Yes. A few weeks ago, CNN's reporting on Americans getting these treatments overseas got a lot of attention. And now our Drew Griffin has found a woman who swears that the therapy saved her life.
Drew joins us now live from Atlanta, this is quite a story. And this was quite a story because we saw your last report where one of the people that you interviewed said 80 or 90 percent of the time you're getting scammed.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right. And, Kiran and John, experts in the field of stem cell research say what you're about to see is simply impossible. It should not work. The science is just not there yet. And, yet, for a Florida woman who paid $54,000, she believes stem cells have improved her life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Barbara McKean's workout, yoga, in front of a Wii may not seem like much.
BARBAR MCKEAN, COPD PATIENT: I have certainly (INAUDIBLE).
GRIFFIN: Until you consider where she was just one year ago.
MCKEAN: I was very limited as to the activities I could do.
GRIFFIN: She has COPD, an incurable lung disease that should be killing her. Instead of dying, she says she's getting better using oxygen only at night now. Even her family physician was amazed.
She believes stem cells from her own body are helping her improve. Barbara McKean is a patient of an American doctor working through this hospital in the Dominican Republic.
Dr. Zannos Grekos is a Florida cardiologist who also runs a company called Regenocyte Therapeutics. What he is doing cannot be done in the U.S.
DR. ZANNOS GREKOS, REGENOCYTE THERAPEUTICS: These procedures work. And it's substantiated by objective data that we're collecting.
GRIFFIN: The procedure -- draw a patient's own blood, send it off to a lab in Israel where it's transformed into what the company calls regenocyte. According to the company, the regenocyte cells are then re-injected into the body to rebuild damaged areas.
GREKOS: We end up with between 40 million to 80 million stem cells and then they also activate them and educate them to want to become the end organ of whatever tissue that we're looking to regenerate.
GRIFFIN: If that sounds impossible it's because those at the forefront of stem cell research say it is.
DR. IRVING WEISSMAN, INT'L SOCIETY FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH: There is no such cell. There's no cell called a regenocyte.
GRIFFIN: Stanford University's Dr. Irving Weissman is the president-elect of the International Society for Stem Cell Research.
WEISSMAN: I'm disappointed and shocked that somebody would prey on a family that has an untreatable disease with the promise of a therapy that has no scientific or medical basis.
GRIFFIN: Dr. Grekos says he's not conducting any FDA-approved clinical trials. Such trials are usually conducted before treating patients. Too expensive, he says, but he will seek FDA approval by the end of the year. He also shrugs off the criticism of non- believers.
(on camera): You think that the head of the International Stem Cell Society, research society and the head of Stanford Medical Centers Biology Stem Cell Department is just behind the times?
GREKOS: I think that they just need to be more educated.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Grekos who conducts information seminars in Florida's retirement community says over the past 18 months he has treated more than 100 people with various illnesses and claims 80 percent responded to treatment. In his seminars, he talks about hopes and possibilities, careful not to promise results.
(on camera): You're treating them. You're not scamming them.
GREKOS: No, we're treating them.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The FDA has not sanctioned the treatment in the United States because it has yet to be proven safe or even effective in humans. But that is all science. What's harder to explain is the experience of Barbara McKean, who says the moment she felt her own stem cells injected into her body, she felt healing.
MCKEAN: I'm sitting out in the humidity talking to you. I didn't even step out on this porch before I got my stem cells. Couldn't do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: John and Kiran, we have verified with her own doctor that it is true, Barbara McKean has somehow improved and is feeling much better. And it's that kind of testimonial minus any scientific explanation is why so many in the U.S. like her are seeking these unapproved treatments overseas.
CHETRY: And, Drew, how do the experts explain her turnaround if it's not the stem cell therapy?
GRIFFIN: Yes. What they usually say is there's some kind of placebo effect. You spend all this money and you hope yourself better.
But Barbara's personal physician says what happened to her has gone beyond that. She still has COPD. She's not recovering. She's just feeling better. Nobody can seem to understand why.
CHETRY: Really is amazing. And people can read more about this on CNN.com/amFIX. Drew, thanks so much.
ROBERTS: You know, that placebo effect can be very powerful. This idea of if you think it works, it probably does. Well, we'll keep following the story. Good work from Drew this morning.
Twenty-six and a half minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." It seems that President Obama can't catch a break when it comes to the teleprompter at times. You know, technical malfunctions happen to the best of us. Check out what happened when he was defending his economic stimulus package.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We took swift and aggressive action in the first months of my administration to pull our economy -- well, sorry about that, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: There you go. It just fell to the floor with quite a clatter. Those are the really fancy teleprompters that literally made of glass.
ROBERTS: They are.
CHETRY: And so you don't even look like you're talking on a teleprompter.
ROBERTS: The two little square things that are on the little stands on either side of the podium -- you know, we have teleprompters here but they're much larger and they're sort of attached to the camera. They don't sit there on little sticks. But we've never had one fall off, but we definitely have had problems with them.
CHETRY: Yes. Sometimes -- there you go, there's a look at -- there you go. There's a look at our teleprompter right there.
ROBERTS: There you go.
CHETRY: What happens sometimes is because we're such a long show, at three hours, sometimes it doesn't reboot. And so, that's always --
ROBERTS: Now you're giving away company secrets.
It's 30 minutes past the hour. Taking a look at our top stories now.
Two Minnesota men have been indicted by a federal grand jury for allegedly recruiting Somali immigrants to fight with Islamic rebels against the Somali government. They are charged with providing support to terrorist and conspiracy. (INAUDIBLE) say they are part of a group that is linked to Al Qaeda. More arrests are expected.
CHETRY: Hey, more good news at the pump. According to AAA, the national average for a gallon of regular now $2.51 a gallon. It's down a penny overnight. And, by the way, this is the 23rd consecutive drop.
ROBERTS: That's good news.
Sarah Palin may be leaving office, but she's bringing in big money in the first half of 2009. Her political action committee raised $733,000, and that is before she announced that she was stepping down.
According to her spokeswoman on the day since she announced that she was stepping down, Palin has raised another $200,000.
CHETRY: Well, when President Obama picked Hillary Clinton to be his secretary of state, many called it a bold move and had star power written all over it. But there are some who are now questioning whether that star power is being kept under wraps.
Joining me now is Tina Brown. She is the co-founder and editor- in-chief of the DailyBeast.com. And she writes, "It's time for Barack Obama to let Hillary Clinton take off her burqa." Tina Brown joins us this morning.
Thanks for being with us.
TINA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, THEDAILYBEAST.COM: Thank you.
CHETRY: Take off her burqa? What did you mean by that?
BROWN: I mean, I'd like to see a little more of Hillary being allowed to be her own person a little bit in the State Department. Really, she's obviously having to represent the administration and she's doing it.
She's churning, though, immense discipline, I have to say, about knocking herself back in the spotlight. I mean, she didn't even appear on a talk show until June, because the president's message team controlled very, very carefully who gets the limelight. And it's already about Obama getting the limelight.
So, she really didn't -- tomorrow she has her first big foreign policy address. But she's actually, you know, welcome, because I think it's time we saw more of her.
CHETRY: It's interesting, you also called it the ultimate checkmate in terms of the president putting her in that position and also the effect that it had on former President Bill Clinton. Explain that.
BROWN: Yes. It turns out really the disappointment which people kind of didn't quite get when it first happened. It was a brilliant checkmate of the president. Because in this position, it's really important the secretary of state does not let any daylight between herself and the president, as we saw when Colin Powell really wasn't feeling to be part of the Bush team. It really hurt him as secretary of state.
CHETRY: The inner circle, you're saying?
BROWN: The inner circle, yes. So in Hillary's case, she can't let that happen. If she distance from Obama, she really, you know, hurts herself.
And at the same time, Bill Clinton, of course, wants to support his wife. And he's really aware that in the campaign at times he made gaffes. So, he has become such a good boy, Bill Clinton. He's just kept himself in a box. He's not really able to do as much now for the Clinton initiative, because, you know, he's not -- because of anything that might conflict. And he's just been made a special envoy to Haiti, which is hardly one of the world's most charming top spots. So, he's really, you know, in a sense, also being very skillfully kind of curtailed.
CHETRY: And so the question though is, do you think this was part of a conspiracy almost thinking as a chess match on the part of Obama? I mean, you know, he was possibly so threatened by the Clintons that he wanted to find a way to sort of get them in a box?
BROWN: I think it played into his calculations. I think that Obama obviously wants smart people around him. And what he sees with Hillary is that she's an incredibly smart executive. She was a great choice for secretary of state.
So, on the one hand, he gets her terrific sort of brain power and her star power when he needs it. And on the other hand, he just makes sure the Clintons cannot at any point be troublesome to him. So, it's a kind of double win for Obama.
CHETRY: It's interesting, you talked about not letting any daylight get between the president and the -- your role in one of the marquis cabinet position. But yesterday, she had -- she was doing a question-and-answer session with some staffers at USAID. And she did make some interesting comments that maybe show a little bit of frustration.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: The process, the clearance and vetting process is a nightmare. And it takes far longer than any of us would want to see. It is frustrating beyond words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: And she went on to say -- she was explaining why there are some posts that haven't been filled yet. And she sort of said, listen, the vetting process of the Obama administration is ridiculous at times. BROWN: I think it's really frustrating for her. But actually in fairness to them, I think it's frustrating for all of them. I mean there are positions -- key positions still in the Treasury which are not filled. It is really hard to find somebody, you know, whose nanny wasn't illegal or who's, you know, had issue with that tax isn't going to thwart things.
But she has the double frustration. Her appointees are also viewed with that much more rigor because there's a sense, again, that they do not want a certain team to kind of reassemble as the Clinton team.
For instance, she really wanted as deputy secretary of state Richard Holbrooke. But she was overruled by the Obama administration. He insisted that she had James Steinberg, who was their guy.
And she's also lost the ability to appoint ambassadorships, which is usually the secretary of state, you know, prerequisite. She wanted, for instance, somebody else in the Japanese post and she was made to accept, again, an Obama fundraiser.
So I think, you know, between all this curtailment, she is feeling a little bit as if she's been boxed out.
CHETRY: Do you think she's happy she took the job?
BROWN: I think she's -- it's hard to say. I would say that, you know, another six months will answer that question. I think she's finding the job immensely interesting. You know, she's all about the substance. And I think she loves to chew on a lot of foreign policy. She adores it.
But I think she's also a big leader herself and she has really taken a -- really a position where, you know, I call her Obama's other wife. And she's playing back-up to him. And I think at a certain time she might find that frustrating.
CHETRY: Tina Brown, always great to talk to you, co-founder of the DailyBeast.com. Thanks for being with us.
BROWN: Thank you.
CHETRY: And if you want to read Tina Brown's article, by the way, we linked it up to our Web site, go to our blog, cnn.com/amfix.
Thirty-five minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A quick check now of the AM rundown. These are the stories that will be coming up in the next couple of minutes.
We're tracking a severe line of storms right now on the move that could affect your travel plans. Also, La Toya Jackson says her brother, Michael, was murdered. Her explosive allegations. Plus, we'll tell you about a custody deal -- a possible custody deal in the works about Jackson's children.
Also, the cost of college education is becoming more and more expensive and for many, out of reach. But President Obama says that he has a plan that will save you money. We'll tell you all about it.
Well, just a few hours ago until Sonia Sotomayor finally answers some questions about her qualifications. And she gets set to go through the question and the answer portion of the Senate confirmation hearings today.
ROBERTS: Yes, this will be really interesting. The speeches were OK yesterday. But the question-answer is usually the hot stuff.
We're not encouraging drinking games here this morning. But if you're looking for a theme, there's only one word to consider. Our Carol Costello live in Washington this morning.
Now, Carol, we've got them all set up and we're ready to go. What are we waiting for?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're going to get really, really drunk. We're waiting for that "e" word, empathy. So, every time you hear "empathy" today, take a drink. Actually, you could sum up Monday's confirmation hearing by uttering that single word, empathy.
It was used to either attack or compliment Judge Sotomayor. Empathy, the ability to put oneself in another's shoes. Republicans say that's a judicial no-no. Democrats say it's a judicial imperative.
So, who's right? Or does it just boil down to which side you're on?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Oh, that word!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call it empathy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: This empathy.
GRASSLEY: Empathy standard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Empathy.
COSTELLO: It's the new litmus test for judicial nominees even though it's been used to describe nominees before. GEORGE H.W. BUSH, THEN-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a delightful and warm, intelligent person who has great empathy and a wonderful sense of humor.
COSTELLO: That was Republican President George H.W. Bush using the "e" word to describe his nominee, now-Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. But today, Republicans say the "e" word is not a quality a justice ought to possess.
GRASSLEY: This empathy standard is troubling to me.
COSTELLO: But why? What does that mean? Does Senator Grassley think our justices should be dispassionate? Like, say, Len in "Dancing with the Stars."
LEN GOODMAN, JUDGE, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": I have to look at the footwork, too. You have to step forward on the heel, not on the ball.
COSTELLO: Or should they sometimes let feelings count?
BRUNO TONIOLI, JUDGE, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": Don't worry, my darling. You're sweetness and light and pretty as a picture.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A good judge brings some empathy to the bench, but in the end, most decision-making is based on strict application of the law.
COSTELLO: That's how the nominee described her judicial style on Monday. But Republicans suspect Judge Sotomayor is more Bruno than Len because she said in the past Latina women sometimes reach better conclusions than white men.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: If judges routinely started ruling on the basis of their personal feelings, however well-intentioned, the entire legitimacy of the judicial system would be jeopardized.
COSTELLO: In other words, there's concern Judge Sotomayor, who 10 years ago described herself as an affirmative-action baby, may be more inclined to rule in favor of minorities because of her past. Legal scholars say there is no pattern in Sotomayor's past rulings to prove that, but some say the idea that empathy may play a part in some of her decisions is actually a good thing.
BRIAN NEARY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We want people to become judges who not only are learning, who not only are scholarly, who not only are smart, but also experienced in the profession and most of all in life.
COSTELLO: The most famous example in 1954, when an empathetic Supreme Court overturned state laws in Brown versus Board of Education on the grounds school segregation violated the U.S. Constitution.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: Well, sometimes the law is not crystal clear. The judges have the facts in front of them, and they have to use something else to decide which way to rule on the political front because, you know, everything's political in Washington. Some say that word, empathy, has become code for activist judge. You know, a judge who will rule in favor of many of those things Republicans are against, like affirmative action or gun control or abortion rights.
So, it should be interesting today -- John and Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. And one note we should say, it doesn't have to be an alcoholic beverage every time you hear empathy. You could drink some coffee or even take a sip of water.
COSTELLO: That was so responsible of you.
CHETRY: I'm just saying, Carol.
ROBERTS: Just saying, Carol.
COSTELLO: Just saying.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: It could be Sprite.
ROBERTS: It could be anything.
Should judges use their feelings in court? Tell us what you think. Just log on to cnn.com/amFIX, and...
CHETRY: One drink it shouldn't be is Red Bull.
ROBERTS: Well, -- it depends if you want to stay awake for hours or not.
It's 44 minutes now after the hour.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A live look at Hampton Beach on the coast of New Hampshire this morning, where it's 54 degrees right now. A little cool to wake up. Going up to a high of 74. But it will be mostly sunny there today. I know it hasn't been the best of summers in New England so far, but it should be a pretty good day there today.
CHETRY: Sweatshirt weather.
ROBERTS: For the moment, yes.
CHETRY: Well, it's 47 minutes past the hour.
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It's 48 minutes now after the hour.
How much is custody of a child worth? Well, if it's Michael Jackson's children, it could run into the millions and millions of dollars. Our Randi Kaye is taking a look at that.
And as well, Michael Jackson's personal physician responds to charges from La Toya Jackson that his death might have been due to foul play.
Stay with us.
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ROBERTS: Five minutes now to the top of the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Explosive allegations this morning from Michael Jackson's sister La Toya. She says her brother was murdered and she knows who did it. And there is word today as well of a blockbuster deal in the works that could determine who gets custody of Michael Jackson's children.
Randi Kaye has got the very latest for us this morning.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): John, Kiran, a source close to the family tells us that Katherine Jackson's attorney is looking to broker a deal regarding custody.
We are told the family wants Debbie Rowe, Michael Jackson's ex- wife, to give up any notion of custody or contact with the two children that she had with Michael Jackson. They are also seeking a nondisclosure agreement, and they may even tell her that she can no longer speak to the media.
As far as the money goes, it seems like there is quite a large payoff in the works. Our source tells us that Rowe stands to be paid, quote, "many millions of dollars" if she agrees to give up custody or any contact with the two children that she had with Michael Jackson.
Also in an interview, La Toya Jackson gave to "London's Daily Mail" newspaper which we have confirmed she was paid for, La Toya makes some pretty strong statements. The paper says that La Toya told a reporter, quote, "I believe Michael was murdered." She did use the word, "murder." According to the article, La Toya blamed a, quote, "shadowy entourage" and said his handlers saw him as a, quote, "cash cow."
Also, the reporter says La Toya told her that Jackson was not found in his bedroom as has been widely reported, but that was he was actually in a nearby bedroom, the one belonging to his personal physician Dr. Conrad Murray.
Murray we know has been interviewed by investigators at least twice. Dr. Murray spokesperson told us today in response to La Toya Jackson's comments, quote, "That is just not true. Dr. Murray administered CPR on Michael Jackson in Jackson's room. I'm not sure where La Toya is getting that. She wasn't even there." That is a direct quote.
The attorney for Dr. Murray refused to comment about La Toya Jackson's statements to the newspaper about seeing intravenous drip stands in her brother's room and also oxygen tanks lining the walls.
John, Kiran, back to you from Los Angeles.
ROBERTS: Randi Kaye reporting for us this morning.
Randi, thanks so much.
You know, still, what's really difficult to explain is why there was Diprivan found in his house. It's only used for one thing.
CHETRY: Right. Sedation.
ROBERTS: Yes.
CHETRY: All right. Well, also another story they're wondering about this morning is how the heck did a football-sized hole end up in a fuselage of a plane 30,000 feet in the air. Everyone is OK, but they're trying to figure out why this happened, forcing an emergency landing. There's a look at the hole. Imagine being in that plane, and you see that from 30,000 feet up.
Fifty-four minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
You know, in today's economy, the staggering cost of a four-year college education is putting this kind of education out of reach for many families. But President Obama today is unveiling an ambitious new plan to invest $12 billion over the next decade in America's community colleges.
The administration says that these two-year schools could play a key role in boosting the ailing economy for years to come.
CNN's Elaine Quijano is live at the White House with more on this initiative this morning.
Hey, Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kiran. Well, that's right. President Obama today is going to be heading to Warren, Michigan to unveil that plan, as you said, to invest $12 billion over the next decade in community colleges across the nation.
Now, what are some of the specifics? First, this plan would give grants to under-funded colleges and build business partnerships. It would also provide performance-based scholarships and give colleges the tools that they need in order to design more programs around work schedules. It would also help modernize colleges by providing $2.5 billion in order to renovate facilities and it would create more on- line courses, a tool that some say can really be more effective than just classroom instruction alone.
Now, across the nation, some six million Americans at ten community colleges. Kiran, today, the president is also expected to announce an ambition goal of having an additional $5 million community college graduates by the year 2020.
Kiran?
CHETRY: And we're also hearing there may be announcements regarding the nation's color-coded terror alert system. What can you tell us about that?
QUIJANO: Yes, that's right. This is the system that was implemented after the September 11 attacks in 2001. This is something that the Associated Press is reporting that Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is expected to appoint a team to re- evaluate this color-coded system. This is the five-tiered system, five colors that are used to denote the varying levels of risk of a terrorist attack in this country.
Now critics have said that these colors are just too vague to deliver any real useful information. And so this is the news today that the Associated Press is reporting. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano expected to appoint a panel to take a look at that system.
Kiran?
CHETRY: All right. We'll see if it continues in this administration.
Elaine Quijano this morning. Thanks so much.
