Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Debbie Rowe Denies Reported $4 Million Payoff
Aired July 14, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson. That mystery intensifies as questions mount as to his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children. After murder charges leveled in the death on Jackson -- his family publicly claiming he was murdered -- bombshell tonight. The payoff! That`s right, we learn a secret deal in the works wherein bio mom Debbie Rowe doesn`t fight for custody of Jackson`s three children. Payoff, $4 million -- $4 million! -- for Rowe to just go away and keep her pie hole shut! Rowe vehemently insists it`s not true.
This while law enforcement shows up on the doorstep of Jackson`s private doctor, demanding answers. Father Joe Jackson does an interview with ABC, and he gets nearly a quarter million dollars, insisting, of course, the money was not for the sit-down interview. OK. Whatever! This as sources claim in a stunning twist, father Joe Jackson reportedly set to force Jackson`s children onto the stage under the name the Jackson 3, actually sending them on the road. Jackson often discussing physical abuse, beatings at the hands of his own father, Joe Jackson, always keeping his own children far, far away. Father Joe also saying he himself will raise Jackson`s children and now put them on the stage. Has Jackson`s worst nightmare come true?
Also, Jackson`s body moved from hiding at the family crypt of Motown founder Berry Gordy after many question, how do you lose a gold-bedecked "Promethean" casket? With 20 helicopters hovering and thousands watching, the casket exited the arena. But was the body ever in the casket, or was it smuggled out in an unmarked van? We confirm a portion of Jackson`s brain missing from the body, withheld for testing.
Jackson`s family infighting boils over, the Jackson brothers pushing ahead with burial in the back yard of Neverland for a Graceland-like Michael Jackson burial theme park. A second autopsy discovers four fresh needle tracks in Jackson`s neck -- that`s right, his neck -- other veins riddled with track marks, many actually collapsing from IV use, his skin paper white, his body emaciated, all in contrast to private video of a full dress rehearsal just hours before his death.
Drugs banned for consumer use, only find behind locked doors in an operating room, found in the home. Jackson reportedly ingesting up to 10,000 pills in just six months, including 40 Xanax a night. This amid reports Jackson wanted to be put under with an IV drip for days on end, essentially lying there like a living corpse for up to 72 hours at a time. The LAPD chief mulling criminal charges over who drugged an addict who happened to be a superstar. As the vultures circling Jackson`s dead body, the fate of his three children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children? Are you ready to fight for your children?
DEBBIE ROWE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S EX-WIFE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody touched you here.
ROWE: You just did! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A source close to the family told us that Katherine Jackson`s attorney is actually trying to broker a deal regarding custody. (INAUDIBLE) told the family certainly wants her to give up any notion of custody and any visitation rights. Now, as far as money, absolutely part of the deal. Seems like there is quite a large payoff, actually, in the works. Our source told us that Rowe stands to be paid, quote, "many millions" if she agrees to give up any contact and any custody with her two children so the singer`s mother, Katherine, can actually raise them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to put this crudely, she sold her children once, she may want to sell them again. Looks like this is an opportunity to cash in for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has said things, and I`m quoting here, about having children, "I did it for him to become a father, not for me to become a mother."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: La Toya Jackson told a London tabloid she believes her brother was murdered for his money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said people were around him that didn`t have his best interests at heart. So to them, he wasn`t Michael, a brother, a father (INAUDIBLE), he was Michael, the cash cow, the money-making machine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news. A beloved couple with 16 children, 12 of them adopted, many of them with special needs, handicapped, murdered in their own home, part of it caught on video. We have the video! The suspects, in full ninja garb, invade the home with military-like precision. As we go to air, arrests come down as the hunt for more suspects goes on. Tonight, who gunned down this beautiful couple, leaving 16 children orphaned?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tragedy occurred in Escambia County with the murder of Byrd and Melanie Billings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the Billingses were ambushed when two groups of men burst into their home, killing them execution-style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you`ll find this particularly chilling, and here`s why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were all dressed in black, all had masks on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... dressed in ninja garb, black garb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would kill a couple who opens their home to special needs kids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is my honor today to tell you we have found them and they are in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven people, six adults and one juvenile, have been arrested in the killings of a Gulf Coast couple inside their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The men who had broken into the house, they say, made away with a medium-size safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Gary Lamont Sumner, Fredrick Lee Thornton and Donald Ray Stallworth are all now in police custody. Also arrested and charged with murder, Wayne Thomas Coldiron and Leonard Patrick Gonzalez, Jr.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one pivotal person in this organization, if you will, is Leonard Patrick Gonzalez, Jr. He is the organizer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And according to arrest warrants, Gonzalez, Jr.`s father, Gonzalez, Sr., was the getaway driver in the red van, allegedly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole thing about the vehicle was (INAUDIBLE) I am not guilty of the crimes with which I`m being charged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would want to kill these two people who were so loving and so giving?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an amount of practice that was involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Leonard Patrick Gonzalez, Jr. The sheriff here says he has a military background. Stallworth is an active duty staff sergeant in the Air Force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a very well planned and well executed operation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is word that Jackson family`s negotiating behind the scenes with lawyers for Debbie Rowe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked? Don`t (DELETED) touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyer for Jackson`s ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, is denying there is any custody deal in the works involving her two children with the late singer. An attorney for Debbie Rowe calls the newspaper report false that she had agreed to take $4 million not to challenge Katherine Jackson`s custody rights.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: La Toya is quoted as saying in the article these are not Debbie`s kids. They don`t know that she`s their mother. Like everyone else in his life, she was motivated by money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s death really changes the whole situation. And as the surviving parent, she does have a reasonable claim to custody of these children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson," joining us tonight in a primetime exclusive live. Ian, explain to me the alleged payoff, $4 million for Rowe to give up any further claims on the children?
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR, "UNMASKED": Well, Nancy, there`s a lot of rumors being bandied about right now, and I`m still reserving judgment until I see the documents themselves. Right now, the Jackson family, the Rowe family -- there`s so many rumors coming out. And the problem is, there`s three amazing children that Michael Jackson doted on, and they`re being left just out in the open in the unknown. And I strongly urge California child welfare to step in and get these children a proper stable environment ASAP because the way things are going right now, it`s very unclear, very shady, and a lot of greed around the Jackson and Rowe camp.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, I want to specifically address reports that a secret deal has been cut, that there will be a $4 million payoff to Debbie Rowe for her to go away and keep her piehole shut and never darken the doorway again with her hand out for money.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. "The New York Post" is reporting that there is a deal that has been made between Debbie Rowe and the Jackson family, like you said, $4 million to walk away, to never challenge custody again, whether the guardian is Katherine Jackson or another member of the Jackson family. However, Rowe`s attorneys now demanding a retraction. They say there is no deal, she`s not taken any money, she`s not going to take any money, other than the spousal support she and Jackson agreed on years ago.
GRACE: To Mary Margaret, senior news editor with Radaronline.com. What can you tell me about an alleged payoff for Debbie Rowe?
MARY MARGARET, RADARONLINE.COM: At this point, we think it`s false. What we do know is the fact that the judge specifically asked that Debbie Rowe and the Jackson family come to an agreement before the hearing so that everyone knows and is on the same page of what`s going to happen to the children. As for money, she`s been very clear through her lawyer that that is not what she`s seeking. So for now, on the record, she doesn`t want any more money, or her kids.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there in L.A. Natisha, do you know any more about the payoff? When is it supposed to go down? And what prompted it?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, once again, sources are telling CNN that there is a payout that is supposed to be happening behind closed doors. However, we don`t know the details of that. Debbie Rowe`s attorney again is saying that this is false, no payoff is going to happen, and Debbie Rowe is not seeking money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: I`m here to celebrate my son because he was the largest entertainer in the world.
GRACE: Father Joe Jackson reportedly set to force Jackson`s children on the stage under the name the Jackson 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of Debbie Rowe`s said she`s not just going to roll over and that she fully intends to seek custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve heard Michael Jackson say countless times how Joe abused him.
JOE JACKSON I never beat Michael in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The understanding that I see is that she just wants to make sure that they don`t wind up, like Michael Jackson, at the mercy of Joe Jackson`s belt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this about what`s best for the kids, or is this about money for Debbie Rowe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie, are you ready to fight for your kids, Debbie? Are you ready to fight for your children? Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Do not touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody touched you here.
ROWE: You just did! Don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready to fight for your children?
ROWE: Are you ready to get your butt kicked? Don`t (DELETED) touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Debbie, are you willing to take a cash settlement for the kids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How important are the kids to you, Debbie?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The payoff, allegedly $4 million. Debbie Rowe denying the entire thing, $4 million once again for her to give up claims on her children and to go away, to disappear.
Back to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what`s the final price tag on Debbie Rowe? How much has she gotten over the years?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, according to court documents, Debbie Rowe got a $5 million settlement years ago from Michael Jackson, and then she was paid another $900,000 for several years after that.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Did you say $5 million to start with?
JOSTAD: Yes, $5 million.
GRACE: Then $900,000 per year, I believe it was, the next four years?
JOSTAD: Yes. Exactly.
GRACE: But Ellie, aren`t you omitting another payoff after the child molestation charges rear their heads on the scene?
JOSTAD: You`re right, Nancy. There were also reports -- remember, Rowe gave up her parental rights. Then when the 2003 molestation allegations came up and she was concerned about his affiliation with the Nation of Islam, she tried again to get custody. And she went away. At that time, it`s believed that she got another payout from Jackson.
GRACE: How much do we think she got then?
JOSTAD: Don`t know about that time. Reports are very sketchy on that.
GRACE: OK. The reports are very sketchy, but what are the reports, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, I`ve heard everything from another $5 million to as much as $7 million or $8 million.
GRACE: OK, back to Mary Margaret, senior news editor, Radaronline.com. We`re looking at an alleged $9 million, not including the current $4 million payoff, allegedly. That`s getting close to $15 million. What does she do with all her money, Mary Margaret?
MARGARET: That`s a really funny topic of discussion. As we know, she lives a quiet ranch life with her horses. She also had a wonderful home that Michael visited her often in Beverly Hills, but she`s since given that up. So we think she has a very fat bank account right now.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Ellie, isn`t it true that she spends about $25,000 a month on horses?
JOSTAD: Well, yes. Debbie Rowe breeds horses, and she`s told people that she is on an allowance. She has a, I guess, fixed income, and that she does have concerns about whether or not she is financially secure.
GRACE: I guess you`re referring to the nearly $10 million to $15 million as a fixed income?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, $25,000 a month on horses. Ellie, does she ever sell any of the horses, or does she just raise them?
JOSTAD: Good question. That`s not clear to me. I`ve seen many reports that Debbie Rowe has a horse breeding enterprise. Now, it`s not clear if this is a hobby of hers or whether or not she`s making money off of this.
GRACE: OK. What can you tell me -- back to you, Ellie, again -- regarding reports -- and where did we get the reports -- that within a doctor`s office, an assistant is claiming Jackson was addicted to dermatological treatments and he would have himself put under an IV drip for up to 72 hours at a time, basically rendering him a living corpse?
JOSTAD: Right. This is a plastic surgery nurse who says she worked for one of Michael Jackson`s doctors. She said that he was getting to the point where he asked for anesthesia even when he wasn`t getting any sort of medical procedure done, that he would ask to be put out for days at a time. She says he was almost like a zombie. She tells the British tabloid "The Sun" that it was like something like out of a horror movie.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Tracy in Illinois. Hi, Tracy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love the show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say, about a week-and-a-half ago, there was a media report on this channel that Ms. Rowe stated that the kids were a gift to Michael because she knew that he would be a good father. So how would that come into play legally? I mean, a gift is a gift. You can`t get those back.
GRACE: Well put. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Gloria Allred, family law attorney, victims` rights advocate out of L.A., Raymond Giudice, veteran trial lawyer out of Atlanta, and renowned attorney Alex Sanchez joining us out of New York. What about it, Gloria?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, legally speaking, she is the parent of the older two children and that is a matter of law. And if she fought for custody, she would have the legal edge, and so she has leverage in settlement negotiations.
GRACE: What about it, Raymond?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s why she keeps getting more money. She`s got leverage. There`s a presumption in California that -- because of her biological parenthood.
GRACE: But Alex Sanchez, what about the fact that she has repeatedly relinquished rights? Is she in any position to really put up a fight now?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think she is because Michael Jackson has died. Circumstances have changed drastically. And now that he`s died, she has a claim, and I think it`s a legitimate claim and she should go forward with that claim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe waived her parental rights in 2001, telling a Los Angeles court, quote, "They are his children," all part of an $8.5 million settlement in which the pop star got full custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dramatic twist in the fight for Michael Jackson`s kids. "The New York Post" is reporting Debbie Rowe, Jackson`s ex-wife, agreed to drop any custody challenge for 4 million bucks. Now, her attorney denies it, says it`s completely false and Rowe doesn`t want Jackson`s money. He`s even asking for "The Post" to file a retraction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we learn the chief investigator from the L.A. coroner`s office has shown up on the doorstep of Jackson`s private dermatologist, demanding answers.
I want to go out to Dr. Panchali Dar, board-certified anesthesiologist and the author of "Before the Scalpel: What Everyone Needs to Know About Anesthesia." Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, explain to me, on these vials, wouldn`t there be tracking numbers? Isn`t there a way to find or to track where the propofol came from?
DR. PANCHALI DAR, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: Actually, Nancy, it`s very difficult. This propofol is given from the pharmaceutical company...
GRACE: Is that the generic name?
DAR: Generic name is propofol. Brand name is Diprivan.
GRACE: OK.
DAR: Both interchangeable, same drug, supplied in vials like this. You draw it up into a syringe...
GRACE: Where did you get that, Doctor?
DAR: This is from the hospital.
GRACE: OK.
DAR: It is not a controlled substance, but it should be given in a controlled situation by people who know how to use it properly, such as an anesthesia provider. It is a dangerous anesthetic drug that should not be used...
GRACE: So how could you track if there are not numbers or serial codes on the vial?
DAR: It`s very difficult to track. It goes from the manufacturer to wholesalers to distributors. There were middlemen involved in this. And if they were supplying Michael Jackson with this Diprivan in his house, there was some kind of middleman involved because you would need buckets of this to be asleep for 72 hours.
GRACE: Doctor, do you have a demo for us?
DAR: Absolutely. You can have to set this up just like this, pure Diprivan being infused right into your blood. Pour it in, and you would be dead in a minute. That`s how dangerous it can be.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`ve learned from the second autopsy about these fresh needle tracks in his neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: La Toya Jackson tells this British tabloid that she was concerned about the circumstances of her brother`s death. She wouldn`t reveal what that autopsy reveals. But she did say that it is going to be a shocker, that there are bombshells in that second autopsy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no indication of any external trauma or any indication of foul play on the body of Mr. Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claims from some of Michael Jackson`s former employees about his alleged drug use. They told police back in 2004 that Jackson took more than 10 Xanax pills each night and at one point used as many as 30 to 40 pills.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We do not know what, if any, drugs Michael Jackson was taking for insomnia or for any other reason and we won`t know until the toxicology reports are made public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source involved in the investigation said the singer`s arms were riddled with marks and veins in both arms had collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The source would not confirm if Diprivan had been found with Jackson but he told us numerous bottles of prescription medication had been found in Jackson`s rented mansion.
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S ALLEGED FMR. NURSE, SAYS HE PLEADED FOR DANGEROUS DRUG: He said, I want an IV and because I know that the first drop when I look at it and I see the first drop hit my vein, I`m asleep and I sleep very well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking claims about Jackson`s alleged drug abuse coming from a former friend and psychic, Uri Geller. He said this tragedy was bound to happen.
URI GELLER, FMR. FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON, SAYS HE TRIED TO STOP JACKSON FROM TALKING PRESC. DRUGS: I screamed at him. And I used the words, "Michael, if you continue this, you will die!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Panchali Dhar. Dr. Dhar, you were just saying that in one minute, you`re dead or you`re out dead. What did you mean by that?
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED ANESTHESIOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE THE SCALPEL": Well, let me just say, it has to be dosed precisely according to someone`s body weight and tailored to the surgical procedure that`s going on at the moment that you`re under in the operating room under controlled setting.
So let me just explain how it`s given. Usually it`s hooked up to this IV setup and placed in a pump and the physician dials in the amount that should be given to the patient. Another way to give it is to take a syringe and put it into a saline bag and then drip it in. But it`s hand controlled.
If you open it up too wide, what happens is, patient`s breathing becomes shallower and to the point where they would stop breathing. If you stop breathing you would go into cardiac arrest. And I would imagine that if the toxicology reports show this Diprivan in his system at some point, it`s really going to change the picture of everything.
GRACE: Dr. Dhar, how long would Diprivan stay in his system?
DHAR: Well, it is metabolized in the liver so we could potentially find metabolized that are existing in his body tissues, blood samples were taken, I presume, during autopsy, so if it`s there they will find it.
GRACE: Joining me right now from Washington, D.C., Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins.
Dr. Makary, welcome. And what do you make of these new reports we`re just hearing tonight that he had become addicted to various dermatological treatments and would go under for -- wanted to be put under for up to 72 hours at a time. It would be like a living corpse just lying there with an IV drip for three days.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: It would be like being in a coma with this medication and people can go for -- in comas for months sometimes. It is sort of a perfect sleep. It`s horrible way to get rest, but we know that this Diprivan does burn your vessels and we hear that both veins in both sides of the arms were burnt out and when I hear.
GRACE: What does that mean to have your veins burnt out? I`ve never heard that.
MAKARY: This medication is caustic. It irritates the veins.
GRACE: Caustic.
MAKARY: And it can knurl up and scar down.
GRACE: Hey, we`re just lawyers, Doctor. We`re just lawyers. We`re JDs, not MDs. What do you mean it is a caustic medicine?
MAKARY: It`s caustic -- the veins scar down and collapse and it is a real tip-off when somebody is using the veins in their neck because those are some of the last resort veins that addicts shoot up in.
GRACE: OK.
MAKARY: So that is a sign of serious addiction.
GRACE: You know what, let me just see the lawyers again. Let them back out, Liz. Somebody`s going to jail, all right? Somebody`s going to the pokey. And for a long time. Because if this was some addict laid up on the street there on Third Avenue, nobody would care.
But this time, it`s come to light. It`s come to light that some fancy doctors with nice offices out there in Beverly Hills are doping up Michael Jackson. Three days at a time, lying there like a corpse.
What`s your defense?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My defense would be let`s see the toxicology, let`s see if there are toxic and dangerous levels of any drugs in Mr. Jackson. All we have now is speculation.
I would also say if the district attorney in the county where Jackson resided or died believes in this case, he or she should impanel a grand jury immediately, start issuing subpoenas and taking testimony. Let`s end speculation and get to the bottom of it.
GRACE: OK. Thank you for the tutorial. Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, if there is a criminal here, let them name names and so far, I`ve heard a lot of speculation, but if you want to prosecute somebody.
GRACE: Put Sanchez back up.
SANCHEZ: You name a name.
GRACE: Put Sanchez up.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know that five doctors.
SANCHEZ: If there`s a criminal activity by a doctor you name a name and then you bring evidence against that person.
GRACE: . are under subpoena and under suspicion right now.
Gloria Allred, you`ve got a chief investigator for the coroner`s office. They are slung up on the front door of his private dermatologist. Now that doesn`t normally happen after a cardiac arrest. After a heart attack.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Yes, alleged -- yes, reportedly the reason that they were there at the dermatologist`s office was that the dermatologist had not provided all of the records, that Dr. Klein had not provided all of the medical records that the coroner`s office was seeking.
But Nancy, I will say that I know Steve Cooley, the district attorney of L.A. County. He will be cautious, he will not try this case in the media, he will make sure that he has all of the evidence that he needs before he decides whether or not he`s going to file a charge in this case.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Joseph Deltito, professor of psychiatry, joining us from New York. Dr. Deltito, the sleep that Michael Jackson would get from intravenous drip of Diprivan, would it be like a regular deep realm sleep? I mean would he wake up feeling as if he had slept? And what would emotionally or psychologically lead him to this point?
DR. JOSEPH DELTITO, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: Well, many drug addicts dream of a state of oblivion and that`s what this basically is. Some state of oblivion. It`s sort of not what it is, but it`s what it`s not and it`s not real life.
Many people who want to use drugs to get into the state of oblivion are trying to avoid something else, some other pain that they have dealing in the real world. I doubt that it was sleep deprivation, primarily, which led him to want to be put out for three days.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Kaye in Kentucky, hi, Kaye.
KAYE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hello, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
KAYE: My question is about Michael Jackson as a parent himself. For seven years, he was on drugs, never tried to kick the habit. Why didn`t he want to be around for his own children?
We know Debbie Rowe is not ranking high in the parent division here, but he didn`t either.
GRACE: To Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson," joining us tonight in a live primetime exclusive.
Ian, what can you tell us?
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR OF "UNMASKED: THE FINAL YEARS OF MICHAEL JACKSON": Well, Michael was a doting parent and the fact of the matter is, no matter who the biological parent is, it doesn`t matter. Michael Jackson did everything for these children.
They will always only refer to one person as their real parent, that`s Michael Jackson. He traveled all around the world with them after the -- after he was acquitted in 2005. He did everything for those children.
And Debbie Rowe, I hope she`s watching this tonight, Nancy, because Debbie Rowe should be ashamed of herself. Anyone -- I`m a father. Any parent who could demand money to go away and give up their child, they, too, should be held accountable.
I find this disgusting. I hope the media, the world holds her accountable and also the Jackson family. I don`t think they are suitable guardians for these children.
Nancy, we have a major problem here tonight. We have to find -- and I hope the state of California steps in immediately and takes proper action and finds a proper guardian for these children ASAP because these children are going to wind up in the wrong hands.
Joe Jackson wants to exploit the children, like he did Michael Jackson, and we are not going to have a good situation here. That`s where we should focus now. On the children, their welfare.
And also I urge the authorities to bring the doctors to justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New revelations concerning Michael Jackson, his sister La Toya making comments to a couple of British tabloids saying she believes Michael Jackson, her brother, was murdered and his death a conspiracy.
HALPERIN: How is Michael Jackson worth more dead than he is alive? If he completes the 50 shows we`re talking half a billion dollars that people could make off of these shows. I don`t understand how Michael is worth more dead than alive since they only insured for 30 shows.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Michael Jackson had lived to begin his upcoming London shows this man says he likely would not have finished them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew he wasn`t ready to handle them. I knew it was something he could not do. He also knew that. The reason I thought he couldn`t handle it is easy. First of all I saw the shape Michael was in physically. Michael weighed, looked like to me, 110, 115 pounds. He was 5`10".
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe told me Jackson did not want to work that hard and did not want to go ahead with a grueling concert schedule. He said the singer told him he agreed to do 10 shows but that the promoter, AEG, sold out 50.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, what can you tell me about Jackson`s family getting nearly a quarter million dollars after an interview with father Joe Jackson?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Well TVNewser is reporting that ABC paid $200,000 to license about 10 minutes of video of Joe and Katherine Jackson. They paid this to a production company. This was a documentary that was supposed to air soon.
Now ABC claims that the licensing of the video had nothing to do with the sit-down exclusive they got with Joe Jackson.
GRACE: ABC claims what?
JOSTAD: That the licensing of the video is completely separate from the interview they got.
GRACE: Could you put Ellie back up? Put Ellie back up. Ellie, when you`re saying licensing of video.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: I`m a lawyer, I know what it means to license something. But don`t they give that video to ABC to run on one of their shows and then they get nearly a quarter million dollars for the interview, but ABC and the Jacksons are saying oh no, we didn`t get paid for the interview?
JOSTAD: Well, there`s no comment from the Jacksons about it but ABC is saying, right, they did not get paid for the interview.
GRACE: OK. You know what, they can say whatever they want to, but what you`re telling me as reported in Newser is he sits down for an interview, father Joe Jackson, they give him some video and he gets paid nearly a quarter million dollars, right?
JOSTAD: That`s what TVNewser is reporting. Right.
GRACE: OK. Also, I want to go back to Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked: The Final Years of Michael Jackson."
Now, Ian, you say that none of the molestations ever happened, right?
HALPERIN: Yes. Originally I started out, I was furious after the 2005 acquittal and I wanted to nail Jackson. I wanted to prove the world that he is, in fact, a child molester. I thought this was another case in California of another O.J. Simpson getting off with high priced lawyers.
GRACE: Right. But you changed your mind.
HALPERIN: I interviewed thousands of people, got access to thousands of documents. I conclude unwavering today, Michael Jackson never molested any children and he`s been the victim of extortion attempts.
GRACE: OK. Ian.
HALPERIN: . and fraudulent attempts to get money out of him.
GRACE: Ian, here`s my question. Here`s my question. Then how is it -- and I imagine you`ve got an explanation for this. How is it that the boy Jordi Chandler could describe disfiguring skin markings on Jackson`s buttocks and under his penis.
HALPERIN: Nancy, you go to read the book. It`s all in the book, Nancy. Those -- that testimony by Jordi Chandler was false, proven false, and I outlined that all in the book. What I`m saying tonight very clearly is Michael Jackson was the victim of extortion attempts, fraudulent attempts to accuse him of something he never did.
He was acquitted and, Nancy, I`ll tell you one thing, if you could give me one shred of proof that Michael Jackson ever molested children I`ll change the conclusion to the book and credit you.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I`m not redoing the trial but I know of multiple children, including Jordi Chandler, that said, testified that he molested them. But I am not retrying the case. He`s dead.
HALPERIN: Nancy, that`s right. There`s.
GRACE: All right? No, no, no. No, no, no.
HALPERIN: Well, one second, Nancy.
GRACE: No, Ian.
HALPERIN: Let`s backtrack for a second. Here`s a man who`s dead.
GRACE: No, I`m not backtracking because we`re going to break.
HALPERIN: And there`s not one shred of proof that he ever molested anyone.
GRACE: All right. Thank you, Ian. I`m not retrying the case since he was acquitted. He`s dead. The criminal cases are over.
But right now, we have a criminal case that is very much alive. And we want justice. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Out of the Florida Panhandle. We`ve learned that two more people have been arrested in the killings of a Gulf Coast couple inside their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary Lamont Sumner was pulled over in a routine traffic stop two counties away. He is now charged with murder. Wayne Thomas Coldiron and Leonard Patrick Gonzalez Jr. have also been charged with murder. According to arrest warrants Patrick Gonzalez Sr. was the getaway driver in the red van.
SHERIFF DAVID MORGAN, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA: We are working on a number of, again, six to eight. We believe the number to be effectively seven. There may be an eighth suspect.
T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIRECTOR, WSKY, 97.3FM: Still trying to figure out what a motive is. Could it be robbery? Well, that`s one of the motives. But police say that there`s probably something else behind this, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surveillance cameras showed two groups of men dressed like ninjas bursting into the Billings` home. Two men come from the wooded area behind the house and three men rush in through the front door. A few minutes later, both parents mom and dad, shot dead in their own bedroom. Up to three children are believed to have seen the attack.
MORGAN: It leads me to believe that this was a very well planned and methodical operation.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: This looks like a death penalty case to me. You`ve got two people who have been killed, shot down in cold blood in front of their own children. How much more heartless could they have been?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To T.J. Hart, news director, WSKY 97.3. T.J., what`s the latest?
HART (via phone): Latest right now is that they`re still looking for a possible eighth person involved in this couple`s slaying and of course the family members are doing the best they can to keep the children, you know, pretty much sheltered from this as much as possible.
GRACE: To Sergeant Scott Haines, Sheriff Officer, Santa Rosa County. He is there at the sheriff`s office.
Sergeant Haines, what do you make of it?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: Things like this are very odd anywhere, let alone in a town the size of Beau La. Up until a year ago it had like one traffic light in it. You don`t see things like this. It`s very spectacular when you look at the method that these people did this home invasion and murdered these two individuals. It`s extremely shocking and we`ve never seen anything like that around here.
GRACE: To Sergeant Ted Roy, from Escambia County Sheriff`s Office, he`s investigating the murder. Is it true, Sergeant Roy, that a safe was taken out of the home and that there is evidence that this was all practiced?
I mean, imagine looking out your kitchen window and seeing a seeing a group of men dressed in ninja outfits coming across your lawn.
SGT. TED ROY, PIO, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, SHERIFF`S OFFICE, ON THE CASE (via phone): It is true about the safe. There was a safe stolen. As of right now, I can`t even tell you if we`ve recovered it yet. I`m not actually investigating the case. I`m the public information officer.
What`s your second question, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, my question is, do you have reason to believe it was rehearsed?
ROY: Yes, we do. Several of the individuals that we have in custody have said they practiced up to 30 days prior to this.
GRACE: To Mike Van Cavage, he`s the assistant public offender and spokesperson for Leonard Gonzalez Sr.`s defense. Thank you for being with us. You`re the spokesperson for his defense. What is his defense?
MIKE VAN CAVAGE, ASST. PUBLIC DEFENDER, SPOKESPERSON FOR LEONARD GONZALEZ SR. DEFENSE: Well, it`s too early to talk about his defense. We were just appointed very recently in as far as what`s going to happen on the case or what his position is. We have talked to him. We have to not discuss at this point in time our plans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The robbery was the motive or.
MORGAN: That is a motive. A motive. We believe that there are other motives that we have yet to confirm. We are working on numerous motives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Safest, easiest, clearest thing to say that the primary in this case is robbery. Home invasion, robbery. They did take items that you would normally expect to be taken in a robbery.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Money, jewelry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well -- a safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. Clark, what can you tell me about the alleged ringleader running a martial arts studio? I guess that explains the ninja outfits.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Exactly right, Nancy. In fact, the ringleader, Gonzalez Jr. -- now also remember the father was involved. He trained children and battered women how to protect themselves from violence.
In fact, he has six kids of his own. Now he had a hearing this afternoon in court. He appealed for no bond to be on his own recognizant. And the judge said, you know what, you had a $1 million bond, I`m taking that away.
GRACE: Good to know. To Sherry in Illinois, hi, Sherry.
SHERRY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy, thank you for taking my call. And your children are so beautiful.
GRACE: I`m blessed. Thank you.
SHERRY: OK, I have a quick comment/question.
GRACE: OK.
SHERRY: This horrific act happened so quickly. And my question was to you and your panel is, how did these people know where the safe was that they took out of the house without being in there before? I mean safes usually don`t have a sign on them saying, here I am, take this? You know?
GRACE: Out to T.J. Hart with WSKY, how do we believe they know where the safe was?
HART: That`s one of the things that hasn`t been revealed yet. But we know that at least one person did work at that home at one time. One of the seven suspects. We don`t know if he had access to inside.
GRACE: Yes. That explains a lot, T.J.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Special Samuel Stone, 20, Ft. Orchard, Washington, killed Iraq. Distinguished honor graduate of Washington Army National Guard. Worked as an apprentice carpenter.
Loved reading, fishing, hunting, leaves behind parents Nancy and Steven. One sister, two brothers.
Samuel Stone, American hero.
Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
