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Nancy Grace

District Attorney Denies Homicide Investigation in Jackson Death

Aired July 16, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies, questions mounting as to his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children. After murder charges leveled in the death of Jackson, his family publicly claiming Jackson was murdered.

Bombshell tonight. Did police seize evidence from Jackson`s bedroom to make a case of homicide? Reports police seized a bedside oxygen tank, a bag of liquid from an IV pole also at Jackson`s bedside. Police find multiple tanks of oxygen in the bedroom and more tanks empty in the garage.

And tonight: As Jackson took his dying breath, was he robbed of nearly $2 million and a cache of jewels? Does this support the theory Jackson got a lethal dose of Diprivan, then went into cardiac arrest just 30 minutes later? This as insiders claim Jackson tried to kill himself for years, often carrying a suicide note on his person, writing dozens of such notes and then tearing them up, traveling the world in search of drugs and getting them, trusting only his bodyguards and a patchwork entourage to keep it all out of the press.

TMZ stands by their report this is now a homicide case, as the DA`s office still denies it. Reports emerge dozens -- repeat, dozens -- of doctors being probed over Jackson`s death. And was there a massive cover- up? We learn a highly sophisticated high-tech security system allegedly monitoring every inch of the home inside and out, including Jackson`s private living quarters, that secret video of Jackson`s final moments gone. Sources also claim a huge black leather bag full of drugs, an IV pole, syringes and IV bags gone. This as we learn of an alleged chilling plot to steal Jackson`s body, reports the body now hidden and protected by armed guards to stop would-be body snatchers.

And tonight, just released video of Jackson himself going up in flames during his `84 Pepsi commercial. Significance? Was this the inception of the star`s addiction to prescription drugs, an addiction that culminated in a second autopsy revealing fresh needle marks in Jackson`s neck -- that`s right, his neck -- other veins riddled with track marks, many actually collapsing from IV use, his skin paper white, his body emaciated, in contrast to private video of a dress rehearsal just hours before his death?

Drugs banned for consumer use, only found behind locked doors in the operating room, found in the home. Jackson reportedly ingesting up to 10,000 pills in just six months, including 40 Xanax a night, reports he even wanted to be put under with an IV drip for days on end, essentially lying there like a living corpse for up to 72 hours at a time.

And tonight: Will Janet Jackson beat the will, the will naming 79- year-old mother Katherine guardian of Jackson`s three children? Is sister Janet now set to take custody? Alternative? Father Joe Jackson. He wants the children on the stage under the name the Jackson 3. Jackson himself often revealing physical abuse, beatings at the hands of his father, always keeping his children far away. But now Joe Jackson boasting he will raise the children, and in a stunning statement, actually blames 79-year-old grandmother Katherine for all the beatings. Has Jackson`s worst nightmare come true?

And of course, tonight, the payoff. Is a deal in the works where bio mom, Debbie Rowe, drops her custody battle for Jackson`s three children? Payoff, $4 million for Rowe to just go away? Rowe vehemently insisting it`s not true. The FDA announcing it may classify Diprivan as a controlled substance. Hey, Washington, you`re a day late and a dollar short -- again! As vultures circle Jackson`s dead body, the fate of his three children unknown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not investigating the doctors, we`re investigating Mr. Michael Jackson`s death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are reports that this case is being treated like a homicide. This is from the Los Angeles DA`s office basically contradicting that. Here`s a quote. "It`s still LAPD`s investigation. They have not filed a case, so therefore, this isn`t considered a homicide."

MICHAEL JACKSON: I`m doing well and I am strong. As you may already know, after my tour ended, I remained out of the country, undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication. This medication was initially prescribed to soothe the excruciating pain that I was suffering after recent reconstructive surgery on my scalp.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that ill-fated Pepsi commercial in 1984. Michael Jackson`s doing the Pepsi commercial and the pyrotechnics go off too soon. Michael Jackson`s hair catches fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a seminal moment in his life, really, because that Pepsi commercial created such a painful situation. Obviously, his scalp was scalded. The most important part of that was that he was prescribed Demerol to mitigate the pain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This even was considered the biggest event of his adult life, the implications of it not just physically but emotionally. His life really did change after that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: A couple with 16 children, 12 adopted, many of them handicapped, murdered in their own home, part of it caught on video. We have the video! The suspects, in full ninja garb, invade the home. Who gunned down this beautiful couple, leaving 16 children orphaned? Tonight, police charge a blond beauty with accessory to murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An eighth suspect, Pamela Long Wiggins, has been arrested and charged as an accessory after the fact.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: They`re not really saying a whole lot about what her role is, if they found something at her house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of wild rumors float around, especially with -- about any investigation as complex as this one, involving all the players that it involves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pamela, you`ve been charged with accessory to murder after the fact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators believe she was very close with Leonard Gonzalez, Jr., as his landlord and a friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that she was associated with Leonard Patrick Gonzalez, Jr., up until the day of the murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you have to say for yourself?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a combination of friendships, casual business relationships that brought this group together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know the Billingses were going to die?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators have found some key evidence in the killing of Byrd and Melanie Billings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the vehicle that Wiggins was riding in when she came to visit with investigators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, it was parked near the mansion before the robbery happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A safe was removed from the Billings residence at the time of the murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve recovered the safe. We`ve recovered several guns, one of which we believe is the murder weapon. This was a home invasion robbery. I think it is as simple as that in terms of the motive and the -- and what occurred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The LAPD has now come forward and said, This is not a homicide investigation. We are not considering this a homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We might learn what caused Michael Jackson`s tragic death, his life cut short at just the age of 50. Any time now, toxicology results expected to be released. Was his death an accident? How many of his doctors are being investigated? How many were associated with him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The LAPD hasn`t said it`s not a homicide. They haven`t said it is. They`ve said that they are open to looking at this as a homicide. If Diprivan is in his system, if it was at the house, if they find a doctor who`s responsible for giving it to him -- because you don`t administer it to yourself -- then you could have a homicide investigation and you could potentially have charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... video obtained by "US Weekly" of the 1994 Pepsi commercial that went horribly wrong. It was the sixth take, and the pyrotechnics went off too early, causing sparks to hit Jackson`s hair and explode into flames.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He clearly has, you know, a large bald spot. And then doctors have spoken out since then and said that he had to undergo multiple surgeries, multiple treatments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We even looked back on that time, I think, and noted that that was when he began using the Demerol. Michael Jackson had legitimate pain and he needed medication for that pain. Unfortunately, the medication then overtook him and he became addicted to it.

MICHAEL JACKSON: I am doing well and I am strong. As you may already know, after my tour ended, I remained out of the country, undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication. This medication was initially prescribed to soothe the excruciating pain that I was suffering after recent reconstructive surgery on my scalp.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. TMZ standing by its report that this is, in fact, now a homicide case, the district attorney`s office still denying it right now.

Here is very disturbing and graphic video of what could be the inception of Michael Jackson`s addiction to prescription drugs. You are seeing Jackson in his `84 Pepsi commercial, where he literally catches on fire, apparently unaware he`s on fire, continuing to dance and film the commercial, then trying to spin the fire out. You see him coming out, surrounded by people trying to help him. And when he emerges, his scalp is actually burned down to the skin -- incredibly painful. There you see Jackson coming up off the ground.

This is that `84 Pepsi commercial many people claim is the inception of his addiction to prescription drugs. Did it ultimately kill him? And who helped him? That clip is obtained by "US Weekly" of the Pepsi commercial showing just how severe his injuries were when his hair caught on fire.

And let`s see how they morphed it into the actual commercial. Let`s take a look at the actual commercial, Liz. Everyone, we are taking your calls live as we hear reports this is now a homicide investigation. Take a look. This is the actual Pepsi commercial that aired after the burning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: ... my son, and I`m here to celebrate my son because he was the largest entertainer in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... not letting him play with other kids, not letting him get a driver`s license, all of the things he did to restrict him because to Joe Jackson, Michael Jackson is dollar signs.

JOE JACKSON: He didn`t get any recognition, and I`m sorry to say that this recognition came during his death.

MICHAEL JACKSON: If I am guilty of anything, it is of giving all that I have to give to help children all over the world, it is of loving children of all ages and races, it is of gaining sheer joy from seeing children with their innocent and smiling faces. It is of enjoying through them the childhood that I missed myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Mary Margaret, senior news editor with Radaronline.com. Mary Margaret, what can you tell me about reports that police find on IV pole beside the bed, empty oxygen tanks, a lot of them, in the garage, oxygen tanks in his private living quarters, and that they actually confiscated a bag of liquid that was hooked up to that IV pole beside his bed?

MARY MARGARET, RADARONLINE.COM: Nancy, that`s exactly right. It was a really eerie scene in Michael Jackson`s bedroom. It was more like a hospital room than an actual bedroom. Like you said, there were multiple used oxygen tanks in the corner. There were pills strewn and pill bottles strewn across the room. There was an empty pill tray that we`ve heard of that was near the bedside. And again, like you said, there was that IV with a bag, which the police confiscated, as well.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, as we take your calls live, Susan Moss, child advocate out of New York, Penny Douglas, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Richard Herman, renowned defense attorney out of New York. Welcome to all of you.

Richard Herman, if this is not a criminal investigation, then why are police seizing evidence?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, it`s an investigation, Nancy. But instead of a homicide, it should be a suicide investigation because after the memorial, scores of people were interviewed to say how brilliant Michael Jackson was. And scores of people were interviewed saying they knew about his drug use and they told him to stop, stop, stop, and he kept doing it and he died. He was a junkie who died. It happens every day in the United States.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Holubek, toxicologist. He is an emergency medicine physician. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, in contrast to what attorney Richard Herman has just blurted out, I doubt very seriously that Michael Jackson`s responsible for putting fresh track marks on his neck. That would be virtually impossible to do, to shoot yourself up in the neck.

DR. BILL HOLUBEK, TOXICOLOGIST: Yes. You know, shooting yourself in the neck -- I mean, people who are drug abusers, they try to find any type of vein they can. When they stop, when they can`t find any more veins, sometimes they`ll just pop it underneath their skin. For someone to find a vein in their neck, it`s not uncommon. I`ve seen it before. But that`s a desperate -- a desperate measure.

GRACE: Extremely desperate. And Penny Douglas Furr, how would you explain the fact that there`s a doctor living there that, according to reports, shows up in the evening and leaves every morning? I mean, that fits hand in glove with the theory that he would be out with an IV drip all night on Diprivan. Somebody was giving this to him. He wasn`t injecting himself.

PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think the doctor was hired by the insurance company, and not by Michael Jackson. That was a part of the deal with the 50 concerts. And I disagree with Mr. Herman. I think, if anything, it was an accidental overdose because Michael Jackson lived for his children. I think if he thought he was going to die, he would have made better arrangements for his children.

GRACE: Penny Douglas, you just said that they -- a doctor was there for the insurance purposes. Now, wasn`t that doctor to safeguard his health, to guarantee he would perform?

FURR: He was, Nancy, but the doctor...

GRACE: OK, then answer the next question...

FURR: ... was not with him 24 hours, so Michael...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: So why show up just at night? Why was he there just at night, when Jackson wanted to get knocked out on Diprivan?

FURR: Well, apparently, that`s when the insurance company wanted him there, or else Michael wanted him there at night. But I don`t believe this doctor necessarily give him the Diprivan. He could have had the Diprivan long before this doctor was ever involved.

GRACE: OK. This is...

FURR: This doctor may not have known about it.

GRACE: OK, Susan Moss, that argument is just disingenuous because when police get there, when everybody gets there, there`s an IV pole with a bag full of liquid hanging on it beside the bed! There`s oxygen tanks all around the room, stacked up in the garage. We know you have to be administered oxygen when you`re on Diprivan. It`s like you`re being put out for major surgery, for Pete`s sake! Someone was monitoring him. He was drugged until he died!

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. It wasn`t just thugs who gave him these drugs, it was doctors who took a Hippocratic oath not to do any harm. But instead, one of these doctors, or maybe more, gave Diprivan. Now, that`s a drug that you only use in surgery. The fact that he was given Diprivan and not under a surgical situation I think is criminal.

GRACE: To Myron Hawkins -- everyone, with us tonight exclusively. He is the first cousin of Michael Jackson. He was there for the private family service for Michael Jackson. Sir, thank you for being with us. Tell me how the family is reacting to what many people think is a foregone conclusion. He`s dead. He wasted away, taking these drugs and getting drugs through all these people for years. Mr. Hawkins?

MYRON HAWKINS, MICHAEL JACKSON`S COUSIN: Oh, yes. At this time, I`d like to make a comment regarding that. The family is just waiting to hear the final results. I can`t comment on that because I don`t know Michael`s doctors, or I can`t say as to what he was really doing before he died. All I know is that Michael -- we`re still shocked. We`re still in shock here in (INAUDIBLE) regarding his death and quite upset about it. We are still grieving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A video is surfacing showing the moment Michael Jackson`s hair caught fire while filming that Pepsi commercial. Happened 25 years ago now. Pepsi later settled with Michael Jackson for $1.5 million. And then Michael Jackson donated that money to the burn unit of the Broughtman (ph) Medical Center in Culver City, California, and the burn ward at the hospital, later renamed it the Michael Jackson Burn Center to honor Jackson and that generous contribution. Was it a turning point for the king of pop?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight to you, Liz. Let`s see that video. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. This is the video of the ill-fated Pepsi commercial, the `84 Pepsi commercial. Let me warn you it is graphic and disturbing, Jackson actually catching on fire. There you see him on fire. He doesn`t even realize it yet, his head in flames. Now he`s realizing and he begins spinning around to try to put the fire out, but it`s too late, his scalp already burned intensely. That`s a clip obtained by "US Weekly" of the Pepsi commercial taping, showing just how severe Jackson`s injuries were when his hair and his scalp caught on fire.

And as he emerges up off the floor, everyone trying to help him. You see a shot, a painful shot, of the top of his skull, showing part of the burning. The pain must have been excruciating.

Out to Ian Drew, senior editor with "US Weekly" magazine. I understand many people believe this was the inception of his dependency on prescription drugs. And now dozens of doctors being probed -- dozens. It was originally just five. But now, Ian, dozens?

IAN DREW, "US WEEKLY": Well, I know of dozens. Personally, you know, I`ve interviewed Michael, been working on this story for so long, and coming across doctor after doctor over the years. I mean, there was a Dr. Farshian (ph) I met in 2002 when he allegedly had spider bites. Now we come to learn that no one really believed they were spider bites at the time. It was an IV put into his leg from that time. And this Dr. Farshian actually prescribed it at the time.

And I`ve met dozens of doctors over the years. He tried to get it any way he could. He went through friends, associates, any time he met anyone. As Deepak Chopra said, he even met Deepak Chopra and very shortly after meeting him, asked him to prescribe him these drugs. So it was a constant thing for him. It was like any drug addict.

GRACE: So the claim, Ian Drew, senior editor, "US Weekly," that he traveled the world trying to get drugs from various doctors and succeeded is true?

DREW: Absolutely. And he did it all the time in any way he could. It was like any other addict. He used any means necessary to get these drugs after that incident.

GRACE: And the doctors gave it to him.

DREW: Absolutely. They were blinded by the fame, blinded by the glitter and blinded by being close to a superstar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: There have been many disgusting statements made recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements about me are totally false.

As I have maintained from the very beginning, I am hoping for a speedy end to this horrifying, horrifying experience to which I have been subjected.

I shall not in this statement respond to all of the false allegations being made against me since my lawyers have advised me that this is not the proper forum in which to do that.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, ON THE SCENE IN LOS ANGELES: This accident took place back in 1984 here in Los Angeles. Michael Jackson later blamed his addiction to pain medication on this accident, and when you watch the video, it is very clear that, indeed, this accident was very serious.

(Voice-over): The video obtained by "Us Weekly" shows Michael Jackson`s hair on fire, but as you can see Jackson doesn`t seem to notice until people surround him. The first one there was Jackson`s long-time friend, Miko Brando, son of actor Marlon Brando.

MIKO BRANDO, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FRIEND: I just went up to him and put my hands -- shook his head, threw him down to the ground and tried to do the best I could.

ROWLANDS: You can see as Jackson gets up his head is significantly burned, down to the scalp.

DR. STEVEN HOEFFLIN, MICHAEL JACKSON`S PHYSICIAN: He initially felt a very hot area and couldn`t distinguish whether it was the hot lights or something was happening. And after a second or two, he felt the intense onset of pain, fell to the ground, and several people came to -- to put out the fire and to apply ice to his heads.

ROWLANDS: Days after the incident, Jackson unsuccessfully tried to get the footage released. His record label CBS Records released this photo. Pepsi eventually ended up releasing the ad, which featured Jackson and his brothers.

Jackson would later claim the accident and subsequent medical treatment led to an addiction to prescription drugs.

JACKSON: As you may already know after my tour ended, I remained out of the country undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication. This medication was initially prescribed to cede excruciating pain that I was suffering after recent reconstructive surgery on my scalp.

ROWLANDS: Possible drug use is a part of the investigation into Jackson`s death.

(On camera): What, if any, drugs were in Jackson`s system at the time of his death is still an unanswered question. The L.A. coroner`s office continues to investigate his death. They say they could have definitive results within the next week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by there in L.A. Natisha, what can you tell me about reports that in his dying breath he was robbed of about $2 million and a cache of jewels?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. This is coming from La Toya Jackson. What she`s saying is that Michael Jackson always kept a certain amount of money on his property. And when they got to the house and started moving things out of the house, that money and those jewels were all gone.

GRACE: And what about the video? Apparently this $100,000 a month rental home he was living in with his children had a very elaborate high- tech security system. Every inch of the place was under video monitoring, including his living quarters. But reports are there`s a gap in the video of the time just before his death, Natisha.

LANCE: Right, Nancy. Reportedly, there was this video all around, in and about the area in the house where Michael Jackson was staying. It caught his collapse on this video. However, the video is missing along with a suitcase that also contained another IV pole, more drugs, and also syringes.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sherry in Illinois, hi, Sherry.

SHERRY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. It`s always such an honor to speak with you.

GRACE: Likewise. Thank you for calling in, dear. What is your question?

SHERRY: You know, when Michael received that horrific burn and was put on all that Demerol, which was much-needed at the time, so my question is don`t these doctors have an obligation to discuss to the patient about the dangers of these narcotics and addiction, and develop some type of plan to help these people get off the drugs, you know, via reduction or detoxing and then follow up with them?

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Holubek, toxicologist, joining us out of New York. What about it? What`s the duty of these doctors?

DR. BILL HOLUBECK, M.D., TOXICOLOGIST, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Absolutely. I totally agree. You know burn patients, they really do need these medications and they`re receiving them intravenously in the hospital. And they need to go home on very strong medications to prevent this pain or to control the pain.

The issue is that -- it`s very difficult and it`s a long process, especially with his burns. He had to have several surgeries. So he`s on these medications for several weeks to several months. And it`s -- in addition, it`s a psychological addiction as well as a physical dependence.

So it`s -- it`s a very difficult situation. And they should be telling him about -- about this possibility, but most people that are on prescription pain medications don`t have this problem. You know, prescription pain medications, antibiotics, are the most frequently prescribed medications in the U.S. but it`s very available. So.

GRACE: You know, that brings to mind this question, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." I understand what Dr. Holubek is saying, around -- about the time when the burns occurred.

But Dr. Bethany Marshall, this is 20 years later, 20-plus years later. And doctors are still agreeing to feed him dope like -- like it`s -- it`s candy corn? What is their duty? And we know that there are dozens, repeat, dozens, of doctors, that`s at least 24 doctors, now part of a criminal probe, Dr. Bethany.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Their duty is to protect the patient and provide safe and reliable medical care. But what drug addicts do, we`ve heard the term doctor shopping. They`ll go to a -- one doctor.

And especially if they`re particularly wealthy and powerful, they`ll say to the doctor, oh, you`re so wonderful and no one else have ever helped me like you and you`re the best and they seduce the doctor with money and compliments.

That`s why these doctors should not practice alone. They should always practice with partners in a treatment setting when it comes to drug addicts because.

GRACE: Dr. Bethany, you`re making excuses for doctors doping up an addict, that he, Jackson, seduces them. They`re the doctors. It`s their duty.

MARSHALL: Well, explanation is not the same as excuse. But you have doctors with greed. I mean, look. He surrounded himself by people who had significant greed. And that`s why he was able to get these drugs. And look, there was greed at the end. There were jewels stolen by his house.

No, it`s not an excuse. But these doctors, it was definitely malpractice.

GRACE: To Myron Hawkins, joining us exclusively tonight out of Phoenix, Arizona. He`s Jackson`s first cousin. He was there at the private memorial with just the family.

Myron, tell me about Jackson as a youth, growing up, when he became a star. What went wrong?

MYRON HAWKINS, FIRST COUSIN OF MICHAEL JACKSON, ATTENDED PRIVATE FAMILY SERVICE FOR JACKSON: Well, nothing went wrong. Michael, basically.

GRACE: Well.

HAWKINS: Basically from my standpoint as a first cousin, I lived there in the house with them for a while. We lived -- after that, my mother and father moved out. We lived right -- in fact, right around the block from Michael.

During that time, Michael as a kid, when he was born in `59, we had already, you know, established a good relationship with our parents, being obedient. And just what normal kids do.

Michael was very playful. I have a photo here that showed that in 2003, we had a family get-together at the Neverland Ranch. I don`t know if you have that photo there, Nancy.

GRACE: I do. We`re showing a lot of the exclusive photos that you have given us, Myron Hawkins.

HAWKINS: OK. Check this out.

GRACE: But is it true, Myron, that Joe Jackson actually took a belt to you, too?

HAWKINS: Oh, well, see the way you phrase that, Nancy, I like to put it this way. We, all at that time, the belt was used to discipline. It wasn`t used as an abusive weapon, OK? And my uncle and my mother disciplined us all. And we were disobedient, that happened.

A lot of times the issues we were dealing with, coming straight home after school or -- you know Joe has five boys there. And he was a black man working in the steel mill taking care of his family. And sometimes that calls for strict discipline.

Michael, my cousin, just happened to be one of the children who didn`t believe that a child should be struck with a belt or anything like that, but there wasn`t abuse. And that expression.

GRACE: But why did he take a belt to you, Myron?

HAWKINS: Well, that`s -- if I acted up, my mother took a belt to, you know what I`m saying?

GRACE: I`m asking you about Joe Jackson. It was not your father.

HAWKINS: OK, he`s my.

GRACE: I`m asking you why he took a belt to you. What did you do if anything to deserve that?

HAWKINS: Well, let me put it this way, Nancy. At that time, families live together and the grandmother and the aunt had permission from those parents to do that. If my mother babysitted Kathy`s kids, she has permission.

GRACE: So are you going to tell me what you did or not? Look, my grandmother helped raised me so I get it, all right?

HAWKINS: OK.

GRACE: I`m asking you why somebody, not your parent, took a belt to you. Can you answer me?

HAWKINS: I`m going to put it this way. I`m not going to go into specifics, but for being disobedient. It could be for a number of things. It could be for, maybe, not maybe obeying a matter of -- cleaning up your room. You know, you tell the kids to do something.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking, never-before-seen footage of Michael Jackson. The accident that really changed his life, we know about it, filming a Pepsi commercial back in 1984.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a fire on his head. His scalp was scalded badly and he was in deep pain. And so initially, his prescription drug situation started out in a very innocent way.

It was really important to him how he looked. I mean, as a celebrity and as a person who unfortunately wasn`t really secure in his own skin. Nonetheless, you know, he felt that he had to look good. And so his -- your visual image was very important to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pain associated with burns is just horrific. It`s the nerve endings, it`s the hair, it`s the skin. And then you have grafts that you have to go through. It`s a very -- it`s a long process. It`s an arduous process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was something that, you know, did not heal quickly or well or totally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend, formerly family spokesperson. Thank you for being with us. What can you tell me? Have any of the family members talked to you about the status of the investigation?

FIRPO CARR, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: Well, you know, what I have is information that the family members may not have. That`s because I was with LAPD for about 10 years, so I know the individuals who are involved pretty much in the investigation.

For instance, Kyle Jackson is the commander of the robbery homicide division of the LAPD. So -- but, of course, he`s not giving up any information and neither will his investigators do that because they want to do it properly.

And of course, Chief Bratton runs a tight ship. He`s done a great job. And they`re tight-lipped about everything.

GRACE: Well, Mr. Carr, do you believe this is, in fact, a homicide investigation? TMZ is standing by their report that it is.

CARR: In my own personal opinion, I would say that if robbery homicide division is looking into it that that is probably the case. We know for sure that Michael Jackson -- I would assume and say that almost seems like a contradiction of terms, he died at the hands of another.

That seems to be the case. So sooner or later, we will find out, and I think it`s going to be sooner more than later, exactly what happened.

GRACE: With me is Firpo Carr, Jackson family friend, former family spokesperson.

To Vince Velazquez, homicide detective. Vince, what do you make of it? The DA`s office still insisting it`s not a homicide investigation. Do you believe it?

VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: I do. That`s not unusual, Nancy. It`s a death investigation. Until we can -- they can establish perhaps motive and intent, it`s not going to be a homicide. Maybe manslaughter.

All the evidence collecting, all of that is going to be presented to the district attorney`s office and the medical community. The medical experts are going to make a determination of whether these doctors...

GRACE: Mr. Velazquez, are you a JD, lawyer as well as a hostage negotiator?

VELAZQUEZ: No, ma`am.

GRACE: Then why would you believe this is just a voluntary manslaughter charge when obviously someone had shot him up in the neck?

VELAZQUEZ: Right. What I`m saying is in this state we have felony murder. I`m not sure about California. If they do have felony murder, then of course it could be.

GRACE: Well-put. Well put. Vince Velazquez joining us.

Very quickly, I want to show you that video that many people believe is the inception of Michael Jackson`s addiction to prescription pain killers. This is the `84 Pepsi commercial. There he is. Many of these takes were done. I believe this was the sixth or seventh take. And the hot lighting actually catches his hair on fire.

This clip obtained by "Us Weekly." It`s that Pepsi commercial taping. It shows how severe Jackson`s injuries were. There he goes down. He was under intense medication while in the hospital and stayed on that regimen or a similar one after going home. Many people say he never recovered from this `84 incident.

Extremely disturbing and graphic video.

Out to Christie in West Virginia, hi, Christie.

CHRISTIE, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing this evening?

GRACE: I`m doing well, dear.

CHRISTIE: Hi. My question is, the doctor that was staying with him, could he have injected some type of medication into his neck to restart his heart? And the same goes for the doctors in the ER?

GRACE: That`s a very good question. Yes, we know that there was adrenaline shot directly into the heart by the paramedics. Track marks in the vein, highly unusual as a resuscitation attempt, but it could be.

And they have to detail that in their report. So we will be able to eliminate that by the paramedics, if they, in fact, did that.

We are taking your calls live. I want to go back to Myron Hawkins, first cousin of Michael Jackson. He wants to clarify it wasn`t a belt that Jackson`s father beat him with. It was a strap.

HAWKINS: OK.

GRACE: Do you think that makes it better?

HAWKINS: Nancy, are you there?

GRACE: I am.

HAWKINS: OK, good. OK. Now, you keep stressing on that belt. I just want to make this fact known. My uncle did not abuse no one. He did not abuse me. We were disciplined. My mother whipped me with a belt but she didn`t abuse me. No one in Michael`s family ever went to the house with injury.

GRACE: Well, that is not what Michael Jackson said.

HAWKINS: Well, Michael -- I know what he said. And -- let me clarify this.

GRACE: OK.

HAWKINS: What Michael said was from his standpoint as a child, Michael did not believe children should be struck or any type of discipline like that. OK? But anyone in America, millions of Americans out there watching what I`m saying I know that the normal procedure was if you were disobedient a lot of times the strap was used. Let`s stay.

GRACE: Say what?

HAWKINS: Hold it. And the way you say belt.

GRACE: No. No.

HAWKINS: You say it so hard but that`s a form of discipline.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: No. No. Not everybody agrees with you that a strap should be taken to a child.

HAWKINS: And then we were disciplined. The strap was used as a form of discipline. That`s your opinion, OK?

GRACE: OK, you know what?

HAWKINS: Let me tell you something.

GRACE: And that is yours, Myron.

HAWKINS: OK. That`s your opinion. But no one -- but you`re trying to accuse my uncle of being abusive. He was not.

GRACE: No. I`m not accusing anyone.

HAWKINS: Oh, yes, you are.

GRACE: I`m just saying what Michael Jackson said on air.

HAWKINS: In your statements you are. OK. And I know what cousins did. I lived with him. I know what he said and I know his view. I saw him at the ranch. And his view on discipline, he did not believe that that type of discipline should be used on children.

GRACE: I heard you the first three times.

HAWKINS: Sometimes -- OK. That`s his opinion.

GRACE: Let`s go to a child lawyer. Susan Moss, what about it?

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I love when they say Joe Jackson never beat him except when he beat him with a strap or a belt or some other apparatus. A beating is a beating.

HAWKINS: You guys.

GRACE: And to the other lawyers, Penny Douglas Furr and Richard Herman, you know, there is not going to be any criminal charges against Joe Jackson. Anything that did happen, Myron Hawkins saying it didn`t happen, after many, many, many years ago. It cannot be resuscitated as a charge.

Yes, no, Richard Herman?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, not resuscitated. But look at the psychological damage on Michael of the beatings he took with switches and belts and straps at the hands of his father.

GRACE: Penny?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I have to say I understand what his cousin is saying. I grew up in South Carolina. I`ve been in many churches where I`ve heard sermons about spare the rods, spoil the child. These people believe they are doing the right now.

I don`t agree with it. I think it`s wrong.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know what your southern lineage has to do with anything.

(CROSSTALK)

FURR DOUGLAS: I`ve heard those sermons.

GRACE: Because Jackson was raised in Gary, Indiana and California. But you know, whatever.

To Bethany Marshall, what about it?

MARSHALL: Well, Mr. Myron said he hit them with the belt when they didn`t clean their room. That`s not discipline, that`s abuse. I think there was a culture of violence in the family from what Mr. Myron is saying.

And I agree with Richard Herman. I don`t think that the inception of the addiction was with the incident of the hair catching on fire. I think it was all the abuse that made him disregulated and traumatized and unable to self-soothe without drugs.

GRACE: To Ian Drew, senior editor, "Us Weekly" magazine. Ian, back to the topic.

IAN DREW, SENIOR EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Yes.

GRACE: When will we get some sort of resolution on the murder investigation?

DREW: Well, we`re hoping in two weeks or less. That`s the deadline we`ve been given. And we`ll see because there`s going to be more and more coming out of that obviously.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The latest in the double murders of this beautiful couple leaving 16 children orphaned.

To Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent, at the sheriff`s office, Pensacola, Florida. Ed, what`s the latest?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we understand that authorities here are saying that they are pushing the end of their investigation. We`ve had a lot of interesting details come out throughout today.

The latest is that they have found the safe that they say was stolen from the Billings home and they`ve also found the weapons and the weapon they believe was used in those murders.

So we understand that those weapons are being sent off for testing and that authorities are in the process of processing what was inside that safe.

GRACE: Ed Lavandera, joining us from the sheriff`s office. Now a special guest, Deputy Chris Welborn, the PIO of Escambia County Sheriff`s Office.

Deputy, thank you for being with us. I understand a blond realtor is charged with murder -- accessory to murder after the fact. Why? What does she have to do with any of this?

DEPUTY CHRIS WELBORN, PIO, ESCAMBIA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: She was an associate of the seven suspects that entered the compound. Upon investigation, we determined that a vehicle registered to her was parked near the compound and used as a getaway vehicle. It also contained the safe and the guns used in this horrible crime.

GRACE: You know, Deputy, with all of these people involved in a so- called conspiracy, and I`m not trying to detract from the seriousness of it. Two people are dead, 16 children orphaned. With this many people involved, I mean, it`s a foregone conclusion, somebody is going to talk.

WELBORN: Exactly. You can`t keep this many people from not speaking to someone and that helped in this investigation. It also helped that well, we believe one of the people involved, one of the persons of interest, did not disable this video surveillance.

GRACE: You know what? All I can say about that, Deputy Welborn, is praise the Lord for that idiot that didn`t unhook the security device.

Deputy Welborn, thank you for being with us.

Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Darrell Griffin Jr., 36, Alhambra, California, killed Iraq, on a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star for saving the lives of five soldiers.

Loved reading books by famous philosophers, writing about 400 pages of a book. Leaves behind wife, Diana, father Darrell, stepmother (INAUDIBLE), three sisters, two brothers.

Darrell Griffin Jr., American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friends.

END