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Nancy Grace
Burial for Michael Jackson`s Body Still Unsettled
Aired July 21, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon Michael Jackson intensifies, questions mounting as to his sudden death, his half-a-billion-dollar empire, and more important, custody of the star`s three little children.
After murder charges leveled in the death of Jackson, his family publicly claiming Jackson was murdered, bombshell tonight. After it is revealed police seize evidence from Jackson`s bedroom to make a case for homicide, including a bedside oxygen tank, a bag of liquid from an IV pole, multiple tanks of oxygen from the bedroom and garage, tonight, has the secret location of Jackson`s body, reportedly still kept on ice by his family, been uncovered? The body kept hidden miles away, protected by armed guards to stop would-be body snatchers, the family planning to reclaim a portion of the music icon`s brain still held by the medical examiner.
Surrounding neighbors tonight mounting a battle to stop the Jackson brothers` plans for a burial theme park at Neverland. It`s war! This as we learn grandmother Katherine strategized to challenge terms of Jackson`s will. Insiders claim she`s being manipulated, played like a fiddle by father Joe Jackson. Now charges leveled against Jackson`s live-in doctor, Jackson`s family pointing the finger at the music icon`s private doc.
And tonight, as Jackson took his dying breath, was he robbed of nearly $2 million? TMZ reporting this is a homicide case. The DA office denies it. Dozens of doctors probed over Jackson`s death. And was there a cover- up? A high-tech security system allegedly monitoring every inch of the home, including Jackson`s private living quarters, with a secret video of Jackson`s final moments gone. Also, a black leather bag full of drugs, an IV pole, syringes and IV bags gone.
A second autopsy revealing fresh needle marks in Jackson`s neck, his veins riddled with track marks, skin paper white, body emaciated, drugs banned for consumers found in the home, reports he wanted to be put under with an IV drip for days on end, lying there like a living corpse.
Bio mom Debbie Rowe allegedly in negotiations over Jackson`s three children. Alternative, father Joe, who denies he wants the children on stage making money. In a stunning statement, he blames 79-year-old grandmother Katherine for all of Michael Jackson`s childhood beatings.
As the vultures circle Jackson`s dead body, including corporate giant AEG trying to sell video of his last video (SIC) rehearsal for $50 million -- that`s right, go ahead, make a buck off the dead man`s last dance -- the fate of his three children unknown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: And something happened there. It wasn`t just only drugs. There`s just something else behind all of that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson`s death was no accident. That`s according to his father. Joe Jackson pointed a finger at Dr. Conrad Murray last night, though he didn`t mention his son`s doctor by name. Police have said Murray is not a suspect. Well, Joe Jackson told CNN his son`s doctor gave him something to make him sleep and he never woke up. And he claimed the doctor ran after the singer died.
JOE JACKSON: I`m thinking that there`s foul play. Yes, that`s what I`m thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murray hasn`t responded to Jackson`s accusation, but his attorney has denied earlier reports the doctor was ever in hiding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Jackson, Michael`s mom, could be contesting the will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a no contest cause in this will, stating that if you contest the will, you get nothing. There`s certainly an indication that she wants some guidance from the court because it appears that her lawyers are possibly going to challenge the validity of the will with respect to those executors, so that presumably, she could control the estate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s life at the end was being controlled and manipulated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: AEG told me two weeks ago that Jackson had agreed to 31 shows, then agreed to do the 50 shows because he, quote, "needed the money."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson was controlling everything. Remember, he put a physician on his payroll for this concert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To them, he wasn`t Michael, a brother, a father, a child. He was Michael, the cash cow, the money-making machine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A beautiful young ESPN sportscaster on the road, allegedly covering the College World Series, checks into a well-known hotel chain, goes straight to sleep. Little does she know that even though she`s behind closed doors, she`s being videoed coming in and out of the shower, walking around her private room. To top it all off, she only finds out when the video of her without a stitch on surfaces on the Internet, popping up on porn sites, viewed by millions. How did it happen, ladies? She was videoed through the door`s peephole. Sportscaster Erin Andrews fighting back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ESPN reporter Erin Andrews was secretly videotaped in the privacy of her own hotel room, the illegally recorded video then posted on the Internet for millions to see. Now Erin Andrews`s attorney striking back, saying he plans to seek criminal and civil charges against the people who did this. However, the culprits` identities remain unknown. Just how did nude video of one of America`s most popular sportscasters end up for the world to see?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And police on high alert for a little 4-year-old in extreme danger, kidnapped, Modesto, little Landon last seen at a local bus stop, the search now desperate, the kidnapper accused of abusing another little child. Tonight, where is 4-year-old Landon?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities are searching for a 4-year-old boy who they say was abducted by his own mother, who only had limited visitation with him. Police allege 31-year-old Marissa Jackson (ph) took her son, Landon, to the park Friday night after getting permission from the boy`s father. That was the last time Landon`s father ever saw him. Jackson and little Landon were seen at a boss stop the following morning. Officials say Jackson has a previous physical child abuse allegation against her involving another child. It does not appear she faced charges for the allegations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The mystery surrounding the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: If a doctor -- couldn`t bring you back -- this doctor, he ran away. They had to look for him three days to find him. So what do you think (INAUDIBLE) To me, that`s foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Shocking allegations by Michael Jackson`s father, telling just moments ago his son was the victim of foul play and naming the people he blames for it.
JOE JACKSON: You don`t take a doctor and stick him in the room. And the doctor give him something to make him rest and then he don`t wake up no more? Something is wrong there. The doctor -- somehow -- I understand that he left and went to sleep or something. I don`t know what happened there. Something went wrong because when they tried to bring Michael back, he was dead. Something went wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Jackson and family friend Leonard Rowe made a lot of allegations, again calling Michael Jackson`s death foul play, saying he was controlled by the promoter of his upcoming concert. That promoter would be AEG.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowe claimed the organizers of Michael Jackson`s upcoming London concerts, AEG Live, may have been irresponsible by hiring a full-time personal doctor to stay with Jackson around the clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson was controlling everything. Remember, he put a physician on his payroll for this concert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got a statement from AEG and it reads, in part, "Whether Michael Jackson would be doing one show or 50, the rehearsal preparation and schedule would have been exactly the same. He always had the option to change his schedule or miss a rehearsal, and he did, indeed, decide to miss certain days he had previously committed to. The show`s schedule was based on his schedule."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Tom O`Neil, senior editor, "In Touch Weekly." We are taking your calls live. Tom, where`s the body? It`s been 26 days. Are they going to bury the body?
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": The body is at Forest Lawn cemetery while they try to figure out this question, Nancy. Jermaine is one of the members of the family that says, Look, we should turn Neverland into not just Graceland but DisneyLand, turn this into a shrine for Michael and let`s bury him there. But the neighbors have recently banded together to form an organization called NEVER (ph) to allow this to happen.
Then if they decide to bury him at Forest Lawn, you have another problem, Nancy. Where at Forest Lawn? There`s a public section. There`s a private section. Bette Davis, Humphrey Bogart are in the public section. That`s where fans could go to Michael`s grave. But they`re worried about the body being stolen. Remember, Charlie Chaplin`s body, Abraham Lincoln`s body were stolen from their grave. Does that mean that they have to put it in the private section, where fans can`t go? The family`s torn over this.
GRACE: OK, Tom O`Neil, when you say it`s at Forest Lawn, which Forest Lawn?
O`NEIL: The one in Glendale.
GRACE: How far away is that, about 10 miles?
O`NEIL: Yes, from Encino, the family compound, you mean?
GRACE: Yes.
O`NEIL: Yes, it`s about 10 miles. It`s right next to Warner Bros. studios.
GRACE: Now, why -- how did it end up there? We thought it was in Berry Gordy`s family crypt.
O`NEIL: Yes, it was at first, and there were the threats of Michael`s body being stolen, notes being thrown over the fence, so they moved the body.
GRACE: This while the neighborhood surrounding Neverland is in an uproar. Neighbors are promising a legal war if the Jackson brothers` plans materialize and a burial theme park is planted there.
Out to the lines. To Maya in Illinois. Hi, Maya.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show. I have a -- I was wondering -- I have a theory on why Michael put the masks on the children.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe it wasn`t just to be odd, but maybe so that the nanny could take them to public places and they wouldn`t be noticed, so they could have a childhood?
GRACE: Well, I mean, you kind of stick out like a sore thumb when you walk into Target with an elaborate face mask on. However, it was my understanding -- out to Ken Baker, executive news editor with E! -- that he did that to hide their faces so their faces would not be publicized.
KEN BAKER, E!: Yes, he didn`t want them to be able to -- he didn`t want them to be exposed to the point where they became recognizable faces. Don`t forget Michael Jackson was deeply scarred and intimidated by his own celebrity. And I think that he blamed his own celebrity and the attention that he got as a child for a lot of his problems, and he didn`t want his kids to have the same problem.
GRACE: Ken Baker, what do you make of Joe Jackson announcing he never beat Michael Jackson? This is after Jackson reveals it over and over publicly.
BAKER: Well, my jaw was down to here, and I think everyone else`s were. It defies the record. It defies what Michael said himself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The star left a will drafted in 2002. It reportedly divides the singer`s estate among his mother, Katherine, his three children and charities, and nothing -- nothing -- to his father, Joe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve heard Michael Jackson say countless times how Joe abused him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Katherine Jackson filed prior to a will being discovered, she filed for guardianship alone, not with Joe Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even in the will, Michael Jackson made it very clear he wants Katherine Jackson alone. There have been many allegations that Michael Jackson himself made about being physically and mentally abused.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all at that time -- the belt was used to discipline. It wasn`t used as an abusive weapon, OK? And my uncle and my mother disciplined us all. And when we were disobedient, that happened.
JOE JACKSON: They were saying I was too rough with the family. And everybody spanked. I never beat Michael in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My uncle did not abuse no one. He did not abuse me. We were disciplined. My mother whipped me with a belt, but she didn`t abuse me. No one in Michael`s family ever went to the hospital with injuries.
JOE JACKSON: I did spank the family (ph) once in a while. Yes, Katherine spanked them more than I did. (INAUDIBLE) bring it all on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, my cousin, just happened to be one of the children who didn`t believe that a child should be struck with a belt or anything like that. But they wasn`t abused.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What is he talking about? Michael Jackson has repeatedly revealed, obviously very painfully, his abusive childhood. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: There`s a lot of sadness about my past life, and you know, adolescence and my father and all of those things. It just made me very, very, very sad.
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: So he would tease you, make fun of you?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: Would he -- did he ever beat you?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: He did?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: And that was difficult to take, getting...
MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: ... beaten and going on stage and performing?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.
WINFREY: And why would he beat you?
MICHAEL JACKSON: Because he -- he saw me -- he wanted me to -- I guess maybe -- I don`t know if I was his golden child, or whatever it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Jackson`s interview with Oprah Winfrey back in `93, from Harpo Productions. Obviously, Lauren Howard, the pain was still right there at the surface. A lot of people had said that Joe Jackson beat him so viciously to keep him off the streets there where they grew up. But they moved out to Hollywood when he was just a little kid. They were not living amongst gang members out in Hollywood.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, it`s very interesting. You`re rewriting history a little bit. Michael`s retelling is a rewrite and Joe Jackson`s telling is a rewrite. It`s really about how -- the effect of it, how it felt for Michael. It doesn`t matter whether -- you know, if Joe Jackson -- well, he hit him with a belt, it wasn`t really a beating.
What is clear is that there was a lot of psychological abuse that went on, and you know, we don`t really talk about that so much because there are no marks from it. But it cults very deeply. A kid can get over physical punishment a lot more readily than he can get over psychological punishment, which there`s no question that that occurred.
GRACE: OK. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON: The media keep harping (ph) back, saying that I beat my son. That`s not true. You know where this beating started? Beating started in the slavery days. They used to beat the slaves and they used to torture them. That`s where this beating started, these slave masters. And that`s where that come from. But a lot of people in America spank their kids, you know? If they say they don`t, they`re lying. They`re lying. Michael was never beat by me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Tom O`Neil, how did Joe Jackson manage to work slavery into this thing, all right?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: How did that happen?
O`NEIL: He`s just reaching all over the place.
GRACE: What is it, Focus off me, focus back on 1860. I mean...
O`NEIL: Well, the ploy -- he tried blaming Katherine, the mother. It didn`t work. We all pooh-poohed that. So now he`s trying to reach back to slavery times. Look, we know what Michael thought of his father. You can see it in that interview with Oprah there. And also, you can see it in the will. He doesn`t name his father at all.
GRACE: Out to Mary Margaret, senior news editor with Radaronline.com. Mary Margaret, what can you tell me about why the body has been secretly kept all this time miles away? What can you tell me about reports the family has it on ice and they plan to reclaim a portion of Jackson`s brain?
MARY MARGARET, RADARONLINE.COM: It`s a twofold reason why the body is still being put on ice at Glendale, at the Forest Lawn cemetery there. The first one is one that we`ve already touched on, which were security reasons. They`re worried about really about ardent fans, body snatchers, other people trying to take advantage of the situation.
And the other second reason is, you know, the family simply doesn`t know what to do with it. And they`re also waiting, you know, for reasons unknown for us, for that other piece of brain, which is unnecessary, but at the same time for them, a vital piece, before they bury him.
GRACE: To Dr. David Posey, medical examiner, now with the Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group. Dr. Posey, have you ever heard of reinserting a portion of the body, the brain specifically, back into the body before it`s buried?
DR. DAVID POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, usually what happens, also once the body -- the brain has been examined, the brain can be given back to the family and they`ll actually put the container in with the body. I`ve never heard of it actually being put back into the body per se, but that can be done, as well. It happens quite often where families want to recover the organs for their loved one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not investigating the doctors, we`re investigating Mr. Michael Jackson`s death and we`re contacting all of his doctors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a death investigation. Until they can establish perhaps motive and intent, it`s not going to be a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they`re going to do it, it`s going to be involuntary manslaughter or a reckless disregard for human life as a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: La Toya, do you still believe in a conspiracy?
LAY TOYA JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S SISTER: It`s murder. I think someone did it. That`s my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ... .com. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Judge Gino Brogdon, former judge and author of "Demons in the CrawlSpace," Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney, Washington, D.C., John Burris, renowned defense attorney out of San Francisco.
To you, John Burris. You know, AEG, the corporate giant, set to sell video of his dress rehearsal to be made into a movie. The family is going to get the bulk of $50 million. Now, is this going to -- the portion that goes to Katherine Jackson, can she just give that away to the rest of the family or does she have to keep it, since at her death, it all reverts to his children?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She can do whatever she wants with it, if it`s her portion of it. I mean, she has two sources of money. One, she`s the guardian for the children. Their money she cannot just give away. That money has to be protected in a fiduciary way. Money that goes to her that is hers separately and apart, she can do whatever she wants with it. She can give it all away now to charity, to any of her kids, to Joe, anyone else. But she does have a fiduciary obligation for those children...
GRACE: Put up the lawyers, please! Let me see Burris`s face. Did you say Katherine Jackson give it to charity, with that husband, Joe Jackson, hanging around her neck? Are you saying...
(CROSSTALK)
BURRIS: She can give it all to Joe, if she wants. She can give it to anybody she wants.
GRACE: Oh!
BURRIS: She just can`t...
GRACE: OK. OK. I got it.
BURRIS: She can`t -- she has a fiduciary obligation for the children, though.
GRACE: I got it!
BURRIS: OK. OK.
GRACE: What about it, Judge Gino Brogdon? We now understand a lot of influence is being put on her by Joe Jackson, the man Jackson specifically cut out of his will.
GINO BROGDON, FORMER JUDGE, FULTON SUPERIOR COURT: Well, she has two roles, basically, Nancy, as a beneficiary, as well as the administrator of the estate. It`s a challenge for her to keep those roles separate. She can manage her money the way -- as a beneficiary, the way she sees fit. But she`s got a higher responsibility as to managing the estate in the best interests of Michael Jackson`s children.
GRACE: To Christopher Amolsch. Amolsch, come on. Half of the Jackson brothers and sisters, they`re not all working. They`ve all got their hands out. This $50 million, if she gets, say, half of it, the will gives her 40 percent, the children 40 percent, charity 20 percent, you know they aren`t going to get it. It`s not going to go to the children at her death, it`s going to be gone.
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s the problem with Michael Jackson leaving a will like that. He left her with way too much discretion. He could have given it all to them, if he wanted to.
GRACE: The $50 million, 40 percent of that right down the tube, say many legal experts. This, as war breaks out in the Neverland neighborhood over a burial theme park.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s covered football, basketball, baseball and hockey. One of America`s most popular sportscasters was recently found uncovered in the privacy of her own hotel room.
ESPN`s Erin Andrews` attorney promising he`ll file lawsuits against those responsible for surreptitiously videotaping the broadcaster in her hotel. The suspects in this crime, still out there. The five-minute video allegedly shows Andrews curling her hair and ironing her pants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Straight out to Kelli Zink, host at CelebTV.com, former sports anchor, who knows Erin. What happened?
KELLI ZINK, HOST, CELEBTV.COM, FMR. SPORTS ANCHOR, KNOWS ERIN ANDREWS: Nancy, this case sickens all of us. Basically, we don`t even know when this video was filmed. We are thinking maybe around the College World Series in Omaha, Nebraska.
Erin Andrews who had no idea she was being filmed, getting ready in her hotel room. And now all this video is all over the Web. And what we have to remember is that Erin Andrews is one of these women who travels all over the country all the time stopping in different places, covering so many different sports.
So for someone to know where she was and when she would be getting ready several times, it`s really suspicious.
GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding -- out to Sandra Golden, reporter with Comcast Sports Southeast, Sandra has been a sports caster reporter for 16 years. She`s a veteran. You`ve been in the same position many, many times. And what we`re hearing is some freak, some perv, is looking through the peephole.
In fact, apparently -- and I have not seen the video. You`ve got to go to a porn site if you want to see it. Then they shut it down and then it pops up somewhere else. Millions of people have seen it by now most likely.
She goes up to the peephole and looks at it like many of us to see if it`s working when we go into a hotel room. And the next thing you know, she`s walking back and forth, fixing her hair in front of the mirror, doing all sorts of things, butt naked, no idea there`s a perv at the door.
What do you think?
SANDRA GOLDEN, SPORTS REPORTER, COMCAST SPORTS SOUTHEAST, SPORTS REPORTER FOR 16 YEARS: I`m horribly disgusted. I haven`t seen it either. But, Nancy, the more and more I`m hearing about it and I don`t know whether this fish is growing or not, but I`m hearing that it was from an adjoined room in the hotel room and that it was actually a peephole. There was a camera set in it.
So whoever was doing this knew she was coming and it`s very easy to figure it all out. We knew that Erin Andrews has covered the College World Series, if it was in fact in Omaha, Nebraska. They knew she was coming. You can go on the Internet right now. It`s June 13th through the 23rd. Erin Andrews covers it. Whatever hotel.
Go to Omaha, Nebraska, you can find out the immediate hotel was about this much effort. So you know, whoever wanted to get it had preparation. Whoever worked at that hotel knew where she was staying. And I would bet dollars to doughnuts Erin already knows who exactly this was.
GRACE: OK, Sandra.
GOLDEN: Yes.
GRACE: You said you believe or have learned that it may not be through the peephole. What did you say was the device used?
GOLDEN: Well, I heard it wasn`t -- like, you know, the door hole, which I originally had had heard, and again, I have not seen the video at all. But I heard it was originally through the peephole in the door. And I thought, how in the world can somebody get this video that actually scans up and down. It doesn`t make sense?
So then later on today, I was reading on the Internet and god knows if that`s true or not, that they were saying it was an adjoining room. So somebody knew exactly what room Erin was going to and they knew where -- when she was going to be there and they knew to drill this hole in the wall and put this scan in there.
It`s creepy. Somebody went to a lot of effort to get this.
GRACE: So, ladies, you`re behind a locked door at a hotel, at a reputable hotel chain, and this can happen.
I want to go out to Jon Mark, owner of Spy Tec Inc., sells video surveillance equipment.
Jon Mark, I understand you`ve got some props on the set. Explain to me how this can happen with her not seeing it.
JON MARK, OWNER, SPY TEC INC., SELLS VIDEO SURVEILLANCE EQUIPMENT: Well, if it was through the peephole, fortunately or unfortunately, there is a device called a peephole reverser. OK? You can put it over the peephole and see into a room.
It`s sold sometimes to law enforcement and to process servicers to see if there indeed is somebody in the apartment. It`s very difficult to hold a camera up to it.
GRACE: Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute. Jon Mark, with us, owner of Spy Tec Inc. Hold on. There are legal alarm bells going off in my head right now.
Burris, don`t go off on a tangent, please stick -- just keep it in the middle of the road, Burris. But in a room where law enforcement doesn`t have a right to be with a warrant, how in the heck, let me say, can they use a peephole reverser? That doesn`t sound constitutional.
Burris!
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely not. I mean I`m shocked by hearing something like this. Without a warrant?
GRACE: Of course you`re shocked, I knew that. How can that happen?
BURRIS: Well, it should not happen. I mean you got to have existential circumstances of some kind to justify that kind of activity and even that doesn`t make any sense. This -- you also have to have some kind of warrant from the court that allows for you to do it. It`s very much like wiretapping. And so therefore, you have to have some kind of discussion.
GRACE: OK.
BURRIS: . from -- a warrant from the court.
GRACE: So warrant. That`s the ticket. Warrant. Agree, disagree, Gino Brogdon?
GINO BROGDON, FORMER JUDGE, FULTON SUPERIOR COURT, AUTHOR OF "DEMONS IN THE CRAWLSPACE": I think it`s so invasive that it would take courts scrutiny to allow that to happen. Because if you`re able to do that, you`re able to put tape recorders in the room and further more.
GRACE: Got it. God it. So Amolsch, very quickly to you. I doubt very seriously whoever was taping and videoing Erin Andrews, the sports caster, without her clothes on, I doubt they had a warrant. So what kind of crime are they looking at?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re looking at felony invasion of privacy. I looked at the laws in Connecticut where she worked and Georgia where she lived. And all of these states make it a felony to do what this person did. They`re going to be have an extremely difficult time trying to figure out who did it.
GRACE: Out to Steak Shapiro. What do you believe happened? He is joining us, he`s is the "Morning Show" co-host, 790, The Zone. What do you think? You`re seeing video from ESPN right now.
STEAK SHAPIRO, MORNING SHOW CO-HOST 79 THE ZONE, KNOWS ERIN ANDREWS: Yes, well, I`ve seen the video and I probably speak for a lot of guys and a lot of offices that said this is creepy, but then you all stand around, you check out the video because somebody had access to it.
It`s a criminal act going on. If you look at the video, it looks like some kind of a telescopic lens. It`s scanning up and down. She absolutely didn`t know she was being filmed. She`s absolutely, you know, in the room, naked, walking around, and somebody is filming.
So, you know, it`s one step -- watching it is one step I guess close to -- like you`re watching a snuff film because you know there`s a criminal and a crime that`s taking place. You just sit there and watch it. And somebody`s going to get prosecuted. And I can tell you this, if law enforcement wants to find out, this is not a tough case to crack.
They will figure out who this is through the dry wall of the hotel room with a telescopic lens. Somebody is going to figure out who this is.
GRACE: OK. Now, you said that it actually scans up and down?
SHAPIRO: Yes, it`s -- and everything I`ve read about it, it`s a telescopic lens. It moves around a little bit, which means somebody had access to move it around. And that`s why they believe it didn`t go through necessarily a key hole or a peephole...
GRACE: Got it.
SHAPIRO: . but was probably in an adjoining room.
GRACE: Thank you.
With us, Steak Shapiro, "Morning Show" co-host, 790 The Zone.
I want to go back to Jon Mark, owner of Spy Tec Inc. who sells video surveillance equipment. I coached off earlier When you mentioned a peephole reverser. Now that you`re hearing the way the video looks, it actually moves up and down, her body, does that suggest to you the mode of surveillance?
MARK: The mode of surveillance to me, therefore, kind of represents that it is possible that somebody was next door. It doesn`t have to be a telephoto or telescopic-type lens. It was just a camera that was able to be manipulated slightly.
What I heard was it went up and down, it kind of scanned her torso, unfortunately, and the hole doesn`t need to really be too big for.
GRACE: Do you have one of those with you on set?
MARK: Yes, we have a number of them.
GRACE: Let me see. Let me see what you`ve got.
MARK: OK.
GRACE: So what`s the smallest one you`ve got, Jon?
MARK: Well, if you look at the lens on this, I don`t know if you.
GRACE: Hey, I need one of those to watch "the nanny." I like it. Keep going.
MARK: There are other things to watch the nanny. And if these.
GRACE: Believe me, I`ve got it. The whole place is covered in nanny- cams. Go ahead.
MARK: Right. So you understand. This is a very high resolution, digital video recorder that has a 60-gigabyte hard drive in it. The camera gets attached to it. So whoever did it could actually watch on the DVR, digital video recorder, what was going on.
GRACE: OK, that adds to the freak level, that they`re actually watching it while it`s happening.
Out to special guest Parry Aftab, Internet privacy and security lawyer, Wiredsafety.org. Perry, thank you for being with us.
PARRY AFTAB, INTERNET, PRIVACY & SECURITY LAWYER, WIREDSAFETY.ORG: Appreciate it.
GRACE: In a nutshell -- remember, we`re just a bunch of lawyers, Parry. How can you track down somebody that puts this on the Internet?
AFTAB: Well, I`m more than just a lawyer, I run the world`s largest Internet safety group.
GRACE: Parry, I said we`re just lawyers. You`re the expert, so please, repeat, in a nutshell, how can you track down this person?
AFTAB: Well, when it was posted online, if we can track back the first post, those sites collect the IP information. That`s like the cyber bread crumbs that will help you lead back to the computer that was used to post it.
Although you can hide who you are most of the time, people don`t, and with a subpoena from law enforcement or a private subpoena from lawyers, we can demand that Daily Motion or YouTube or any of the other sites that have it, provide the IP address of the people who posted it first.
Then you go back to the device. Sometimes they`ll collect back information which is the computer that`s used itself. And that will lead you to the old-fashioned proof. Tie it to whoever`s posted it online. Might have done it at the time using a wireless access from the hotel. And you`re going to get a lot more information. Will help you figure out who on the ground was doing what they were doing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ESPN reporter Erin Andrews was secretly videotaped in the privacy of her own hotel room. The illegally recorded video then posted on the Internet for millions to see.
Now, Erin Andrews` attorney, striking back, saying he plans to seek criminal and civil charges against the people who did this. However, the culprits` identities remain unknown.
Just how did nude video of one of America`s most popular sportscasters end up for the world to see?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing, Miss Andrews?
ERIN ANDREWS, SPORTSCASTER: Good, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty good. How`s the chin?
ANDREWS: The chin`s good. Looks pretty good, doesn`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks pretty good.
ANDREWS: It only after, like, a couple of days, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wow.
ANDREWS: Not even much makeup on it, huh?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s looking all right.
ANDREWS: Your Dodgers, I was at the Dodgers game.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. The Dodgers -- luckily it wasn`t Manny Ramirez or somebody who did it.
ANDREWS: Well, I don`t even know, I mean, I don`t know if Manny would have hit it that hard, huh?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alex hits harder than Manny, huh?
ANDREWS: I don`t know. I don`t know. But yes, I know it wasn`t the Dodgers. They just didn`t do a very good job fielding it, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, I guess so.
ANDREWS: (INAUDIBLE) offered me his catching gear after it happened. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s very nice of him.
ANDREWS: Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, she`s a good sport. You`re seeing TMZ.com video. Andrews was bopped by a ball at Shea Stadium. There she is, making light of it.
I want to go back to Steak Shapiro, "Morning Show" co-host 790, The Zone. Now, you`ve seen the video and you say it scans her torso up and down. The video is about five minutes, right?
SHAPIRO: Yes, we got through about 90 seconds of it. We`re doing our morning show on and wanted to see what, you know -- a, we wanted to see what people were talking about and, b, like a lot of offices, as I said around the country, and especially a lot of men, they wanted to see the Erin Andrews video.
It doesn`t move around that much but it clearly, as you watch it, the first thing that comes into your mind is, as I said, you are watching a crime taking place that on the other side of that camera there is a sick person that is filming a celebrity that has no idea she is being filmed.
And that at some point, this was released. Now again, you can`t get it on the Internet. But like, where we found it, was people started sending it to each other. And once that happened over the weekend that means millions of people have this thing saved in their e-mails or whatever it is.
So it is creepy. It is eerie. And it`s absolutely going to be, you would figure, somebody is going to be paying the ultimate price. To say that her attorney is on top of it would be an understatement.
GRACE: To Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, former member of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, now in Nutley, New Jersey.
Detective Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. Question. We know this is being downloaded and downloaded and downloaded. How hard is it going to be to find the perp?
DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Oh, I don`t think it will be very hard.
Nancy, the police are going to interview everyone that`s close to her including hotel employees. And far as the electronic footprints, as a prior guest said, the police will actually be led back to the original party who posted that on the Internet.
GRACE: You know, Sandra Golden, reporter with Comcast Sports Southeast, she`s been a reporter, believe it or not, 16 years now.
GOLDEN: Wow.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Sandra, he just mentioned hotel employees. What do you think, Sandra, about the possibility this was an inside job? That it wasn`t someone following her around the country, it was someone within that hotel?
GOLDEN: Well, it just makes perfect sense to me. And I guarantee you, Erin saw the hotel -- saw the video and said, wait a minute, I remember that. And let`s just say -- let`s go along with the theory that it`s Omaha, Nebraska.
The Omaha, Nebraska hotel had that guest and media list probably four weeks out. So Joe Smith who works at that hotel says to his buddy, ooh, guess who`s staying here, Erin Andrews, the Sideline reporter, the supermodel. She`s fantastic. Guess what? And then wheels go into motion.
So you want to talk about prep time? I know that generally speaking when we travel, we know weeks ahead when we`re going, when we`re arriving. You know, listen, we`re all trying to save a buck. We book hotels way out. So I would say absolutely, it`s an inside job. And I guarantee you Erin has seen it and said, and she said I know what hotel, I know what room I was in, called xy and z.
GRACE: To Kelli Zink, host of CelebTV.com, former sports anchor herself. She knows Miss Andrews. What is her reaction?
ZINK: I mean, Erin -- she`s not allowed to speak. Her lawyers speaking for her. But I can only imagine how disgusted she is. Erin Andrews may be supermodel beautiful but she`s well respected. "Playboy" voted her the sexiest sportscaster two years in a row. But she`s not posing in "Playboy." She`s not in "Maxim."
She`s not one of these women that does these shoots. She`s very well respected. And nothing is making her angrier or more upset or disgusted, but this is not going to ruin her reputation. She`s built a great reputation up until this point.
GRACE: And she really knows her stuff.
Out to the lines, Ellen, Kentucky, hi, Ellen.
ELLEN, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
ELLEN: You do a great job.
GRACE: Bless you.
ELLEN: Isn`t the hotel somewhat responsible for the safety of their patrons? I can`t imagine somebody standing in the hallway outside her door.
GRACE: Oh, listen, Ellen, you are so right on. Because once there`s a criminal case, believe me, there`s going to be a big fat civil lawsuit. I can only hope she brings it. What about it, Burris?
BURRIS: Absolutely. I think that the hotel, if you find out what hotel it was and they allowed this to take place, willingly or not, negligently or not, they`re going to be held responsible, along with the people engaged in it. So I see a huge civil case here on her behalf. And large (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: Sherry in Illinois, hi, Sherry.
SHERRY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Nancy, thanks for taking my call again.
GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?
SHERRY: Quick question for you. Don`t all these high-class hotels, don`t they have cameras out in the hallways so even if somebody were to go into the adjoining room, isn`t there surveillance in hotels?
GRACE: That`s a really good point. Jon Mark, owner of Spy Tec Inc., all of the really nice hotels do have video surveillance. Remember that cooked O.J. Simpson at the casino, breaking into the room. Come on, every stitch of him was caught on surveillance.
But then the crappy hotels where people stay when they`re on the road and they`re trying to save money, they have security cameras for safety reasons.
MARK: Well.
GRACE: Jon Mark.
MARK: A lot of the hotels that I deal with and consult for are wonderful, upscale hotels. They have terrific directed security that are really on top of things like this. And there are many, many cameras in these hotels.
GRACE: So the big issue is, once she sees the video and identifies what hotel and what date, have they already videoed over the security cameras?
Quick break, we`re taking your calls. As we go to break, happy birthday to a Texas friend of the show, a tiny crime fighter, Gage. Gage turns 6 years old today. Here he is with the family dog, Lulu. He`s full of energy. He loves sports, soccer, football, swimming, baseball.
Happy birthday, Gage.
And happy birthday to Georgia friend of the show, one of Atlanta`s finest, Lieutenant Stacie Gibbs, in charge of detectives in midtown and downtown Atlanta, including the CNN HEADLINE NEWS center. Here she is with her son Skyler, husband Andy, an APD sergeant.
Happy birthday, Sergeant Stacie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are desperately searching for a 4-year- old boy allegedly abducted by his own mother, who cops say has been previously accused of abusing other children. They are very concerned for little Landon`s safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing a photo of the alleged kidnapper, who is the mom who has been accused of harming other children in the past. Abusing them.
To Blake Taylor, news director, KMJ 580. What happened?
BLAKE TAYLOR, NEWS DIRECTOR, KMJ 580 NEWS RADIO, COVERING STORY (via phone): Nancy, thanks for having me back. Yes, this is Merisha Jackson. She is a 31-year-old mom of three who allegedly kidnapped her 4-year-old son Landon. They were last seen on video boarding an Amtrak train, 5:00 Saturday night, in Modesto.
Now, in just the last couple of hours, Nancy, this case has really taken a shift to the Bay Area. Now authorities had said all along that Mrs. Jackson had relationships and people that she could go to possibly in the San Mateo area.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment, Blake.
Blake with KMJ 580. We`re showing the photo of the mom right now. Gina Leguria, PIO, Stanislaus County Sheriff`s Office, are -- is there a break in the case? Do we know where little Landon is?
GINA LEGURIA, PIO, STANISLAUS COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE, ON THE CASE (via phone): We believe and have information to believe that Miss Jackson may be in the Redwood City, California area. She did board the Amtrak train, made her way to San Francisco, and then took a bus.
GRACE: OK. Everyone.
LEGURIA: . with an open destination.
GRACE: Tip line, 209-525-7085. You`ve seen her photo. The 4-year- old is in danger.
Let`s stop and remember Navy Corpsman First Class Gilbert Minjares, Jr., 31, El Paso, Texas, killed Iraq. A medic who put others first. Awarded the Purple Heart. Never met a stranger. Loved football, golf, dancing, music, scuba.
Wanted his two children to know he sacrificed his life for their freedom. Leaves behind parents Gilbert Sr. and Rosa. Four siblings, widow Jeanie, 5-year-old son Gilbert, 2-year-old girl Miranda.
Gilbert Minjares, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from Arizona friends of the show, William and 10-year-old crime fighter, Darby, who wants to be a lawyer just like her mother and her father.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
