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President Obama Holds Town Hall in Ohio; Weighing In on Obama's Remarks About Arrest of Harvard Professor

Aired July 23, 2009 - 15:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And there we have the President of the United States once again finishing up what seems to be a daily routine for him, pushing and pushing and pushing the health care plan.

Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. This is not a speech. And as we always say, it is your turn to get involved.

You just saw the president. He was in a town hall meeting. Last night, the nation watched as well as the president gave a primetime address. Now, he said two things that raised eyebrows and may have dropped jaws.

First, he made a comment about how greed can get in the way of health care, a comment that seems to have offended some doctors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, doctors a lot of times are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that's out there. So, if they're looking and you come in and you've got a bad sore throat or your child has a bad sore throat or has repeated sore throats, the doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, "You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid's tonsils out."

Now, that may be the right thing to do, but I would rather have that doctor making those decisions just based on whether you really need your kid's tonsils out or whether it might make more sense just to change -- maybe they have allergies. Maybe they have something else that would make a difference.

So -- so part of what we want do is to free doctors, patients, hospitals to make decisions based on what's best for patient care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, that's a heck of a thing to say. And we're going to pick up on it in just a little bit. But then came the very last question of the news conference, a question that I am betting he wishes he hadn't taken or maybe answered differently.

Here is the president being asked to weigh in on the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Here is a question. Should the president have taken sides? Is that what the facts of the case reveal, the way he just explained it, according to his understanding, he says?

Did the president really know the facts of this case, or did he say something important that needed to be said?

You and I on Twitter have been going back and forth on this since last night, when I first heard this comment. I really do want to know what you think. This is an important conversation for all Americans. I also want to know what Roland Martin thinks about this, because you know that is going to be good, guaranteed, almost, out of the bat.

And I also want to know about what professor Boyce Watkins has to say about this.

By the way, given what I think both of them are going to say thus far, this could very well get conflictive. Hold on to your seats, folks. The national conversation is about to heat up once again.

But, before we do that, I want to give a chance to a Republican senator to respond to what we just heard the president say for the last, oh, 45 minutes.

He is, of course, Republican Senator from Wyoming John Barrasso, who has been with us before.

The comment -- and, first of all, Senator, thanks so much for being with us, sir.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: The comment made by the president last night, let's start there. It was probably a bit of a double whammy for you, I imagine, I'm guessing, first of all because you are a lawmaker who opposes the president's plan, and also because you are a doctor. And, essentially, what the president was saying is, under the current system, there may be times when a doctor will make a decision based more on money than on a patient's needs.

BARRASSO: I think people go into medicine for the right reason, Rick. It's to take care of people. That's why folks become doctors and nurses and physical therapists, to help other people.

But we have a system that pays for doing more things. We don't have a health care system. We have a sickness system in this country, Rick. And the president, you know, talks about amputating a foot.

Yes, we pay a lot more in this country for -- for amputating a foot. Actually, you'd pay more if you amputate at the knee than if you help the person with diabetes get their diabetes under control.

And that's why we need to reform health care in a way that focuses on people staying well and encourages that rather than in doing more things --

SANCHEZ: As a doctor, were you offended by, I'm just curious here, were you offended by the president's comments last night?

BARRASSO: I think he would say it differently if he could to the people that I know that are in medicine, they go in for the right reasons.

SANCHEZ: I'm interested because some people could also very well argue that the president was brazen, courageous in what he said, because there may be some truth to the fact that money sometimes does get in the way of proper health care. Is that fair?

BARRASSO: Money also gets in the way in terms of the number of tests that are done, money that is spent more to protect against the possibility of a junk lawsuit than actually getting the person well, because the more money that is spent as a doctor ordering tests, the more you can protect yourself from liability.

So there is a lot of waste in the system. But, bottom line is, the president at the Cleveland clinic, I think those students asked wonderful questions...

SANCHEZ: What a shame. It looks like we just lost Tom Barrasso. Is there a chance we can get him back? I will stay here and count to ten to see if he with can get him back.

It's interesting, because he and I were just having that conversation about what predicament doctors were in.

Yesterday, I was talking to Tom Coburn, fellow Republican senator. He is a doctor as well. I asked him if doctors under the present system are satisfied. Forget about what we might get in the future. Is it working for doctors today?

Listen to what he tells me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is a thing that's always confused me about this, and it's obviously something you know a lot more about it than I do, both because you're a legislator and a lawmaker and a doctor, which puts you in a unique situation.

And I hate to do this anecdotally, because I'm the biggest guy who criticized people who say, "I knew a guy who went to a clinic once and blah, blah, blah," but so many doctors that I know, I've seen them leave their profession, look for something else to do, go bankrupt, hate their profession.

And they've come to me when we've sat around, because they lived in our neighborhood because we have played golf together, and they said the way the system is set up now, it is horrible for us. We get creamed. Half the time, we can't do what we want to do because some HMO or somebody else is telling us how we have to do things.

And yet I now see commercials being endorsed by organizations that say "Don't change things because then somebody will be telling doctors how and what to do."

SEN. TOM COBURN, (R) OKLAHOMA: They already are.

SANCHEZ: I'm confused.

COBURN: They already are, and that's the frustration with medicine. I have a friend who quit taking all insurance, Medicare and Medicaid. And he is a great internist.

And he now only sees patients, and he gives them a copy of the bill which they can file. He says, "I am practicing far better medicine. I only have one employee. I don't have the frustrations anymore. And my patience are getting better care than they were before because I am not hung back by all this bureaucracy."

So, until you fix the bureaucracy in medicine and until you create transparency about quality and price, which is what he has now, you know when you go into the doctor, what it is going to cost to see him.

What's going to happen...

SANCHEZ: So is there a place -- I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt, sir. Is there a place for the government to step it in and have a role at all, or are you of the mindset that says, we don't want the government involved in this at all?

COBURN: One thing that would help is to take away this antitrust prohibition among the doctors. They can't compete with the insurance agencies, the insurance companies who just want to make money, who say they care about somebody's health.

What you have to do if you are going to do that is you have to have transparency with the physicians, too. They have to be transparent. So, I think there is great hope for us to fix it. I am not sure we're anywhere close to fixing the real problems in medicine.

The thing that worries me about what's going on now is 75 percent of all the innovation in the world in health care comes out of this economy, and it comes out of the 40 percent that's not run by the government right now and managed by the government.

And if you look at any of our government programs -- they are needed. I'm not saying they are not. But they are not effective. They are not efficient. They are highly expensive, and they are fraught with fraud. There is $120 billion a year that goes out the door on Medicaid and Medicare that doesn't help anybody but just gets defrauded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go back to Senator John Barrasso now. You heard your colleague there. As I was listening to him talk, I was thinking, are we simply trading in one system where HMOs tell doctors what to do for a different system where the government might tell them what to do?

BARRASSO: It sure looks that way to me, Rick. I have the 1,000 page House bill. You go through this whole thing, and you have to say to yourself, are we really making health the most important thing, or is this just another way to treat sickness?

They are trying to talk about moving more and more people into Medicaid while the Democratic and Republican governors oppose this across the country, calling it the mother of all unfunded mandates, pushing the cost off.

And Medicaid has done a terrible job in terms of prevention and early treatment and coordinated care. But that's what they are pushing with these proposals.

So, I don't see a focus here. I appreciate when the president said, we want to get it right instead of getting it done fast, and I think that's absolutely right.

And also, he said, keep up the pressure on the members of Congress. I think everybody from Congress ought to go home over August, take a copy of the bill home with him, read the bill, and then share it at town meetings just like the one he had today in Cleveland, and then come back and vote after the people of this country have their input, their opportunity to state what they want and what they don't want, and a government takeover is not what the people of this country want, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Let me leave with one more question to you, though. I've been asking you questions as a doctor, and I appreciate your insight on that. Let me ask you a question now as a politician.

My sources lead me to believe that the Democrats have enough votes to see this thing through, with or without your side. What is your reaction to that?

BARRASSO: Well, we need health care reform in this country. If we get bipartisan health care bill, that's going to be much better. You would much rather have something supported across the board, both parties, and everybody goes out and tells people around the country, this is better for our national, this is better for our future.

But we are not seeing this now, because I have fundamental concerns about this. The Congressional Budget Office says it costs way too much. The Mayo Clinic says this program will actually make matters worse, will increase costs and won't do things to help health care.

You have David Broder, "The Washington Post," saying it's overly expensive, it's badly flawed. Those are the things I believe about this bill.

So if they have all the votes that they need to jam something through that to me is irresponsible and reckless, I don't think that will be good for America. I would prefer getting reform done but doing it in a way that's bipartisan with some really common sense approaches and changes that will make a difference for the health of this country.

SANCHEZ: Senator, John Barrasso, you're always welcome, sir, to come and share your perspective with us. We thank you for your time.

BARRASSO: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right, by the way, just a programming note here. Tomorrow, I will be working a little extra. I'm going to be doing my show tomorrow at 3:00, and then I'm going to be in New York. So I'll be doing the 8:00 show, filling in for Campbell Brown. She's good enough to let me sit in her seat for Friday night.

It will be a national conversation in primetime. And, of course, all of you on twitter, MySpace, Facebook, are invited to come along.

But when we come back, this is the conversation I know many of you have been waiting for. There they are. These two gentlemen are going to be teeing it up and talking about what the president said last night in reference to an arrest in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with a very well-known and very well-respected Harvard professor.

Well, the president weighed in on this last night. Was the president irresponsible in what he said? Was the president of the United States irresponsible? I want to know what you think and what these two guys think, and they're the best.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: "Black in America 2" tonight.

By the way, this is something that has really been heating up the twitter board and the MySpace and Facebook board throughout the day. Welcome back.

Was the president of the United States last night irresponsible in taking sides in this case by saying that a police officer in Cambridge acted stupidly in arresting Professor Gates before it appears the president knew the full facts of this case?

Let's listen once again to what the president said and then I want to bring in Roland and Boyce. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: My understanding is that at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I am sure there is some exchange of words, but my understanding is that professor gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house.

And at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that, but I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry, number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: But because there was a long history in this country of what the president just described, which is, by the way, undeniable, does that mean the facts of this particular case bear out that way? That's what we need to drill down on.

Roland Martin is our CNN contributor. Boyce Watkins is a professor at Syracuse University. Both are with us now. Roland, I'm going to begin with you. Should the president have taken sides? Should he have said that last night on national television?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely, he should have. He has a right to his own opinion. He was simply asked a question. He answered the question. Had he danced around the question, you would be sitting here saying, why isn't the president being honest about this story? Why can't he answer any race-related questions?

SANCHEZ: Do you agree with what he said?

MARTIN: Yes, absolutely.

SANCHEZ: You think the officer acted stupidly?

MARTIN: This is what he said, "they acted stupidly arresting him after it was established that he was the owner of the home." That's the most important thing.

SANCHEZ: So?

MARTIN: So, the key there is if the guy has already established that "I am the owner of this home, and so here I am, upset that you are still sitting here calling me a suspect, why am I being arrested?".

SANCHEZ: He wasn't. Hold on, hold on. The record does not show he was calling him -- what you have just said is not true. The record does now show that he was calling him a suspect. That's not true.

MARTIN: You are saying the record. The record from who?

SANCHEZ: I see. So the officer is lying?

MARTIN: No, no, Rick. There are two opinions here. There's a police report and Dr. Gates. There are two opinions.

SANCHEZ: Let's go through some of that, then.

First, let me let Boyce Watkins into this. Boyce, I will just ask you the very same question. Is it possible that the president of the United States may have said something last night that was irresponsible given the fact that the facts of the case weren't in yet?

BOYCE WATKINS, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: I am not here to call the president irresponsible, because the president knows I have a lot of respect for him. I have fought for years against racial profiling and on behalf of black men who are victims of this.

But the problem, though, is you can't preface your conversation by saying Skip Gates is a friend, I am admittedly biased, I don't know all the facts, but they behaved stupidly. Let's be real.

To get that criticism from the president, that's an absolutely hammer on this police department. And the fact that the police union is stepping forward and saying, look, we went through the procedure, and this guy followed the procedure.

It doesn't mean this guy is innocent. It doesn't mean that racial profiling wasn't involved. But it does mean we don't know all the facts.

MARTIN: I've got a question. Here is Skip Gates in his home. If Skip Gates was being disorderly inside the home, why didn't the cop arrest him in the home?

SANCHEZ: I'll tell you why.

MARTIN: Why did the cop --

WATKINS: Roland, man, you have got to look up the police penal code. You can't usually, typically arrest someone for disorderly conduct inside their home. It has to be in public.

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Gentlemen, I can help you with this, since we're asking for facts, because I have spent the last five hours researching just about every angle of the story.

According to the officer, and I know you guys might say we have to question the officer, according to the officer, he left the home, walked out to the front lawn, and Mr. Gates followed him, and that's where the altercation ensued.

MARTIN: Now, according to gates in his interview last night on CNN, the moment he stepped out of the home onto his own porch, that's when the officer then said, you are under arrest.

SANCHEZ: Well, let's look at the police report. Let's look at the police report. Let's read it. Can we put that up?

MARTIN: You have two perspectives, police report and Gates.

SANCHEZ: Let's give them both the benefit of the doubt. Let's hear what this guy says and then we'll hear what Gates says.

Let's start with the officer. He says, "I asked if he would step out on to the porch and speak with me," that's after the officer had arrived because somebody had called and said that there were two men trying to break into this house.

"He replied, "No, I will not." He then demanded to know who I was. I told him I was Sergeant Crowley in the Cambridge police and that I was investigating a report of a break-in in progress at the residence.

While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I am a black man in America?" I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence.

While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a caller to the Cambridge police and that the caller was outside as we spoke.

Gates seemed to ignore me and picked up a cordless telephone and dialed an unknown telephone number. As he did so, I radioed in on channel.

I then overheard Gates asking the person on the other end of this telephone call to get the chief. What's the chief's name?

Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was messing with, and that I had not heard the last of it."

I don't know, does that sound to you like this is a racist police officer?

MARTIN: According to Gates, last night, he said he was inside of the home. He asked the officer what was his name and badge number. The officer refused to give it, turned on the heels, and then walked out of the door.

Now, if you are going to read the police report, also read what Gates said.

SANCHEZ: I didn't hear exactly what you said.

Hold on, what we are going to do is, first of all, Roland's right, if you said what I think you said is, that we should hear what Gates has to say, you are absolutely right. That's only fair, and we have cued up, because we want examine what both of these men are saying, both of these men are saying --

WATKINS: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: And then what both of you are saying as well.

Let's squeeze a break in to here, because we've got to. We'll come right back and we'll hear what Professor Gates told our own correspondent, Soledad O'Brien last night. Let's go.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I know there is profiling by police in this country because I have been a victim of it myself. But I'm not sure it's fair to say that every time there's an incident like this that the police officer is wrong, at least not without looking at the facts.

I just read you the case, the police report, where the officer very diligently goes through and gives details of what happened. I want you to listen now what Professor Henry Louis Gates tells as a dispute or as the other side to this to my colleague, Soledad O'Brien, last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GATES: I haven't heard from Sergeant Crowley. I would be prepared to listen to him. If I were convinced that -- and if he would tell the truth about what he did, about the distortions that he fabricated in the police report, I would be prepared as a human being to forgive him.

That would not deter me from using this as an educational opportunity for America, because if this can happen to me in Harvard Square, this can happen to anybody in the United States, and I'm determined that it never happens to anybody again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You know what's interesting about that voice is, and I'm not sure, maybe because he wasn't asked or he didn't get a chance, but the officer gave us detailed, moment by moment of exactly what happened, and he doesn't give us any details.

MARTIN: Yes, he does.

SANCHEZ: Don't you want to know -- OK. Please -- MARTIN: He gave an interview to "The Washington Post" two days ago --

WATKINS: He gave an interview but, but that doesn't mean he was giving the details. The thing is I'm not trying to say Skip Gates is lying.

SANCHEZ: Right, nobody is.

WATKINS: What I'm trying to say is that we don't know what happened.

And let me tell you one important fact that's being missed here, and I did my research. I talked to several officers and several black scholars to get both sides of this issue.

One thing about breaking and entering is that if you look like you're breaking into your own home and you present I.D. showing you belong in that home, that does not mean the officer should stop asking questions and just walk away.

Did you know Rick, that one-third of all women who are murdered in America are murdered by former lovers, which are typically in many cases men who live in the house, who broke into the house, violating restraining orders --

SANCHEZ: I could take it a step further --

WATKINS: -- but we have to consider that.

SANCHEZ: According to what I'm reading right here, what the officer says -- again, we take him at his word -- he says he didn't even believe that Gates was a suspect.

He had heard -- the report the woman, Mr. Wiley filed is, that there were two men breaking into his house, two young men. When he saw Gates, he said who's that older guy? He wanted to get Gates away from the house because he wanted to protect him from the two guys he thought may have broken into his house.

That's what he said. That's what he said.

MARTIN: But also, when Gates sat there, gave him his I.D., gave him his Harvard I.D., you're sitting there with the I.D., you're sitting with the man in front of you and the address. You're in the home.

Now, Gates has talked about it. Gates gave his own description of what happened in an interview to theroot.com, which he is the founder of, and the "Washington Post." So don't say, Rick, that he has not given his version. He has.

SANCHEZ: Well.

MARTIN: Earlier in the interview with Soledad he talked about and described what happened. The clip you played was simply the wrong clip.

SANCHEZ: OK. All right. That may be fair.

WATKINS: The bottom line, though, is none of us were in this house. All we know is a black, prominent Harvard professor was arrested by a white police officer. I doesn't mean racial profiling doesn't happen.

MARTIN: Why are we taking the police --

(CROSSTALK)

WATKINS: -- just because of what someone says.

MARTIN: So why are we taking the police --

SANCHEZ: All right.

MARTIN: -- the police report as the official word?

SANCHEZ: I tell you what, I'll give you more information maybe we can chew on here.

The police officer, Mr. Crowley, it turns out -- and I've just learned, the Associated Press is reporting -- he is an expert on racial profiling, has taught at the academy on racial profiling for five years, and gave an interview this morning to WEEI, a radio station there, about why he ended up arresting a guy who he says he tried to leave the residence of and walk away from. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was arrested after following me outside the house, continuing the tirade, even after being warned multiple times, probably a few more times than the average person would have gotten.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe -- well, he was cautioned in the house, meaning, you know, calm down, lower your voice.

Once we got outside in front of the general public, the police officers assembled there, two warnings. The second warning was with me holding a set of handcuffs in my hand, and something I really didn't want to do, but I -- the professor at any point in time could have brought -- could have resolved the issue by quieting down and/or going back into his house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And By the way, here's what the neighbors say about that altercation. They were in the front yard. Some people who just happened to be there called by the commotion and they watched it. Here's what they say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gates appeared to be agitated, and I did not see the policeman agitated or making any fast moves, quick moves or anything. So I would have to say, you know, it was probably Mr. Gates who was a little bit -- as the police report said -- belligerent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that Professor Gates was belligerent?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe he was out of control. I didn't hear anything that he was saying so I couldn't say that he was belligerent. I couldn't definitely say he was belligerent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: By the way, we'll continue this conversation on CNN.com/live, because I know it's a good conversation, it's one America should be having.

But it takes us back to the first question. Given all the stuff that we've just seen, that's not to say Gates was wrong, that's not to say the officer was wrong, should President Obama have gone on national television last night and decided that the officers acted stupidly?

MARTIN: In arresting him after proving that was his home. You have to add that, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Well, but --

MARTIN: Rick, Rick, you cannot have a half of a sentence if you don't have the second half.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me help you here. Are you saying no one's allowed to be arrested in their front lawn if the police officers think they've done something wrong?

MARTIN: What he said was they acted stupidly in arresting him after establishing that he was the homeowner. That was the quote. Don't give half a quote.

SANCHEZ: OK. That's fair.

WATKINS: We have to be honest on this, Roland.

MARTIN: I'm being honest. He had the right to --

WATKINS: You know you're my friend, and President Obama is a respected leader. I like the guy. But I think he made a mistake.

He killed the press conference, did a great job. And then on that part -- you don't start a conversation by saying this is my buddy from Harvard, I don't know all the facts, I'm admittedly biased, but these people behaved stupidly. That's just not a good thing.

MARTIN: They behaved stupidly in arresting him after --

SANCHEZ: Do you think Crowley is a racist?

MARTIN: First of all, I don't know Crowley. I don't know his background.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Rick, Rick. I will finish the comment.

SANCHEZ: All right.

MARTIN: I do not know Crowley. I have never met Crowley. I am not going to call somebody a racist.

Do I know arrogant SOB cops who don't like being questioned? Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: Do you think professors can be arrogant?

(CROSSTALK)

WATKINS: My dad was a cop for 28 years, and I know a lot of arrogant cops, too. But I also know a lot of good cops who do their jobs, put their lives on the line.

MARTIN: And I know arrogant professors and good professors.

WATKINS: There you go. And so the question is, it's not a matter of saying that Gates was right or that the officer was right. It's a matter of saying let's get the witnesses, let's do a thorough investigation. Let's not just apologize because someone from Harvard was arrested. That's just not the way to go in my opinion.

MARTIN: And let's also not sit here and read a police account and automatically assume that it is absolutely, positively correct 100 percent.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But Roland, it's the record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's his record. It's not the record, it's his record.

WATKINS: That's true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be his story.

SANCHEZ: Well, but once you --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I mean, the man is an expert on racial profiling, which his other police officers --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Rick, how many times have we seen --

WATKINS: So we can't say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times have we seen cops put down information in a record, and it's still their perspective, and another cop says this is how I saw it? Come on now. I'm not buying it.

WATKINS: Here's the deal. We need to move forward -- the attorney general needs to move forward on investigating racial profiling.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

WATKINS: No matter what happened here --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you because we're moving -- everybody who's watching now, go to CNN.com/live where, if you think this was wild, it's going to get even wilder, all right?

Meantime, here's Wolf Blitzer with "THE SITUATION ROOM."