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American Morning
Obama Says Health Care Central to Recovery; Obama Reacts to Professor Gates' Arrest; Breaking Down Health Care Plan; Feds Launch Raid on Houston Clinic of Michael Jackson's Doctor; Is President Obama Overexposed?; Different Takes on Obama's Proposed Health Care Plan
Aired July 23, 2009 - 07:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up now, a minute past the top of the hour. It's Thursday, it's the 23rd of July. Thanks for joining us on the "Most News in the Morning." I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Here's what's on the agenda. These are the big stories we're going to be breaking down for you in the next 15 minutes.
It's part of the president's primetime news conference and we're going to have -- that we'll have everyone talking today. It was right at the end when the president was asked a question off the topic of health care, addressing the arrest of Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his own home.
Well, the president said that the police acted "stupidly." Today we're also hearing from the arresting officer himself, and we're live in Washington on the president's reaction.
ROBERTS: Dramatic developments today in the Michael Jackson death investigation. DEA agents raid the office of the doctor who was with Jackson when he died. The attorney for Dr. Conrad Murray now says investigators are building a case of manslaughter against him. Our Ted Rowlands has got details on that coming up.
CHETRY: An American terrorist, a New York man pleading guilty back in January to charges of aiding Al Qaeda and helping attack a U.S. military base in Afghanistan. This is all according to an indictment that was just unsealed. Authorities say Bryant Neal Vinas (ph) also gave al Qaeda information on the Long Island Rail Road and the New York City subway system.
ROBERTS: Now, for the latest on President Obama's urgent pitch to get health insurance to more Americans and fast. The president hitting the road today, continuing his campaign-like pace to Ohio for a tour of the famed Cleveland Clinic and then on to a town hall meeting. Last night in primetime, he said getting a health care bill through Congress is key to our economic recovery.
The timing, critical. The public opinion on the issue beginning to slide. And with the House and Senate going on vacation in just two weeks' time, time is definitely running out.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux live in Washington for us this morning with the very latest. It looks as though the president is beginning to concede that he's not going to get this before the August recess.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, John, you're absolutely right. And he certainly seems to be trying very hard. In his first six months of his presidency, he's putting all of his political clout behind health care reform.
This is a high stakes test for this president to see whether or not he can get some of his other agenda pushed through. But, John, it was interesting, last night the president made news addressing something that so many people have been talking about, and that is this controversial case of alleged racial profiling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): It was the very last question that made the news, off script, off health care. President Barack Obama weighing in forcefully in race relations, commenting on the arrest of Harvard African-American professor Henry Louis Gates, who was hauled off by police after mistakenly being accused of breaking into his own home.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.
MALVEAUX: The president made the point that even having a black commander in chief doesn't mean racism is history.
OBAMA: I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made, and yet the fact of the matter is, is that this still haunts us.
MALVEAUX: But Mr. Obama also tried to diffuse the controversial subject with humor.
OBAMA: If I was trying to jigger -- well, I guess this is my house now. So it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago, here I'd get shot.
MALVEAUX: The remainder of the evening all about selling his top domestic priority, overhauling health care.
OBAMA: Absolutely, it's my job. I'm the president. And I think this has to get done.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Obama threw down the gauntlet.
OBAMA: I'm not going to sign a bill that, for example, adds to our deficit. I won't sign a bill that doesn't reduce health care inflation.
MALVEAUX: But he did say he supported limiting tax deductions for wealthy Americans and imposing a surtax for those making more than $1 million a year, efforts to raise money to cover America's uninsured. OBAMA: The plan that has been -- that I put forward and that what we're seeing in Congress would cover -- the estimates are at least 97 to 98 percent of Americans.
MALVEAUX: He also praised Republicans for their idea to create an independent panel of medical experts to advise Congress on how to cut medical costs. And he called on Americans and their doctors not to indulge on unnecessary and wasteful medical treatments.
OBAMA: Why would we want to pay for things that don't work? They aren't making us healthier.
MALVEAUX: At the same time, Mr. Obama tried to reassure Americans that despite the billions in federal bailout dollars, he was being responsible with taxpayers' money.
OBAMA: The debt and the deficit are deep concerns of mine. I am very worried about federal spending.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, John, today the president is taking his message on the road. He's visiting a Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. He's also going to be holding a town hall meeting at a nearby high school. All of this really a big push to try to get Congress to do something sooner as opposed to later if at all -- John.
ROBERTS: Doesn't look like that's going to happen at the moment, though. Suzanne Malveaux for us at the White House. Suzanne, thanks.
Coming up at our next hour here, by the way, on the Most News in the Morning, we'll have Rudy Giuliani with Republican reaction to the plan, and senior adviser to the president, David Axelrod, on the president's promise to us that this will not add to the budget deficit.
Well, it's a story that exploded into a debate over racial profiling. And this morning, the president, the mayor, the arresting officer and Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. are all speaking out on the incident. Here's a quick recap of the story just in case you missed it.
Gates, a noted black scholar and Harvard professor, was arrested at his own home in Cambridge, Massachusetts, after having to force his way through a door, he says, was jammed. A neighbor thought she was seeing a burglary in progress and called the police. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct but the charges were later dropped. We talked with the Cambridge mayor earlier here on AMERICAN MORNING about the arresting officer's behavior.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Do you believe he should apologize?
MAYOR DENISE SIMMONS, CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS: Well, I believe is that we should continue finding out the facts, what actually happened, so that we can take the appropriate action.
ROBERTS: Does it suggest to you at this point that there may need to be some changes to these procedures?
SIMMONS: What it suggests is that something happened that should not have happened.
ROBERTS: Right.
SIMMONS: That is very clear to me. The next steps are how do we -- first, we have to sit down and which I'm certainly going to do is sit down with the parties involved, to have a discussion about how did we -- how did we get this outcome, how did this happen? And from there, to look at -- to talk with the police commissioner in particular, and the city manager (ph) to say this can't happen again in Cambridge and how are we going to prevent it from happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: We're also hearing from the actual arresting officer this morning. That's Sergeant James Crowley. He responded to the call and was the one who originally arrested Gates for disorderly conduct.
Well, Sergeant Crowley says that he is not worried about any disciplinary action and added, speaking of himself in the third person, "There are not many certainties in life, but it is for certain that Sergeant Crowley will not be apologizing."
Meantime, Professor Gates spoke exclusively to CNN. He sat down with our Soledad O'Brien as part of our two-night special report "Black in America 2." He says apology or not, he wants to keep the discussion about this issue going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY LOUIS GATES, PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: I would be prepared as a human being to forgive him. That would not deter me from using this as an educational opportunity for America. Because if this can happen to me in Harvard Square, this can happen to anybody in the United States, and I'm determined that it never happen to anybody again.
What it made me realize was how vulnerable all black men are, how vulnerable all people of color are, and all poor people to capricious forces like a rogue policeman. And this man clearly was a rogue policeman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Gates also says that while there has been no apology from Sergeant Crowley, Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons did call, as we said, and she told us on the show to apologize. She also invited him to meet with her when he comes back to Cambridge.
Well, stay tuned to CNN tonight as the special primetime event continues. "Black in America 2," it examines today's pioneers. That's starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific, only on CNN.
ROBERTS: Also new this morning, police in Houston are investigating whether a drive-by shooting that wounded six people is linked to a rivalry between two gangs. It happened at a community rally at Texas Southern University. Witnesses reportedly told police a car drove by and just started spraying the crowd with bullets. But none of the injuries, thankfully, are said to be life threatening.
CHETRY: And if you're using those electronic cigarettes, E-cigs to try to kick your actual smoking habit, the FDA has a warning for you. A government watchdog says they found carcinogens and other toxic chemicals in these E-cigs, the nicotine vapors specifically in them, even though they're touted as "healthy alternative to smoking." A Florida-based company, Smoking Everywhere, one of the largest E-Cig manufacturers had no comment when we called.
ROBERTS: Plus, the Fed launched a surprise raid on a Houston clinic run by Michael Jackson's former doctor, the one who was there when he died. Could the singer's death be ruled a homicide?
Ten minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twelve minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. We're taking a look at the health care debate this morning after we heard from the president last night. And we want to try to pin down some of what the president and Democrats say this reform will do.
Some points of their plan include insurance companies not being able to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions. You have to have coverage or risk paying a fine. And the fed and your company will help pay the bill if you can't afford it. Also, a lot of Democrats in Congress want to include a government plan that would compete with the private companies hoping to drive down the cost of private insurance.
So, we wanted to take these ideas to the front lines. Our team of experts we have with us this morning at our panel, Dr. Christina Johns, an E.R. specialist at the Children's National Medical Center. We also have with us Dr. Lisa Sanders, an assistant clinical professor at Yale School of Medicine. Also, Paul Keckley is with us this morning, a health care economist with the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions. Thanks to all of you for being with us this morning.
DR. CHRISTINA JOHNS, E.R. SPECIALIST, CHILDREN'S NATIONAL MEDICAL CTR.: Good morning.
PAUL KECKLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DELOITTE CENTER FOR HEALTH SOLUTIONS: Thank you.
DR. LISA SANDERS, INTERNIST AND ASSISTANT CLINICAL PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Good morning.
CHETRY: One of the things that the president talked about last night, I'd like all of you to feel free to jump in. I'll start with Dr. Johns, Christina, in this one.
The president made the case that this trillion dollar plan, which is what many of the estimates are, is actually better than the cost of doing nothing. What is the cost of doing nothing as you see it from the front lines, Christina?
JOHNS: Well, I'll tell you. We absolutely cannot sustain the trajectory that we are on. What I see is an emergency department that I work in that serves primarily children that over the last nine years, has grown in its volume to 63 percent. Why? Because people can't get in to see their regular health care provider. They are waiting longer to seek medical care, so they're showing up in my emergency room sicker with longer wait times and requiring hospitalization when maybe, just maybe, had we gotten there earlier we wouldn't have had to do that...
CHETRY: Right.
JOHNS: ... shell out all that money, loss of sick time, you name it, it's a big problem.
CHETRY: And, Paul, let me ask you about this, though. The president says that about two-thirds of the money to pay for this is going to come from overhauling, finding wastes, getting rid of wastes. Do we have that much waste in the system right now that it would pay for two-thirds of a trillion dollar plan?
KECKLEY: I think so. The Deloitte surveys we do indicate that the majority think more than half of what spending health care is wasted. In a report to the White House June the 1st, the major trade groups identified $1.7 trillion of savings that could come from the system over ten years. So I think there's adequate amounts of monies from doing better what we do. So I think the president's two-thirds may be actually understated.
CHETRY: And Dr. Sanders, from your point of view, as you look at this and you wrote a book called "Every Patient Tells a Story," for fears that universal health care means less health care, what do you say?
SANDERS: I think that it's clear that something needs to change. I have patients who stop seeing me for, you know, for a year, months at a time, because they lose their insurance or that they have what's called a spend-down and they can't afford to come and get care until they go to the hospital with their chronic medical problems get them sick enough to go to the hospital. Then they get to come back to see me because we have to see them, whether they have insurance or not.
And so it's clear that something has to be done. I don't know that I'm -- I'm sure that whatever we come up with, it won't be perfect. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good in this case. We need it very much.
CHETRY: Go ahead, Paul.
KECKLEY: Our data says that 38 percent of the U.S. adult population believe the system should be graded "D" or "F." So there's a huge amount of disaffection for the system.
CHETRY: Yes, and I want to ask you about this because --
KECKLEY: But -- but it's interesting. The majority, though they believe everyone should be insured, they really do not want the government to play a significant role in a takeover, nor do they want to pay more taxes. So it's a really difficult dilemma to reform a system where everyone is uncomfortable with it in its current state but they're not sure what is better.
CHETRY: Right. And then Dr. Christina Johns, I want to ask you about that situation as well because, as Paul alluded to, some of these polls, most people say they want health care reform. Most people say we need health care reform.
JOHNS: Right.
CHETRY: But the interesting part is that almost eight in ten, and this was a "Washington Post" poll that was conducted, say they're satisfied with the quality of their own care. So how do you reform a system that people say can't be sustained, yet at the same time many people don't want a lot to change for them personally?
JOHNS: Well, I must not know any of those people because they're certainly not showing up to my emergency department. I think that what we really need to do is try to refocus a bit. Let's look at primary preventive care. Let's figure out the low-hanging fruit, ways that we can make things better, invest in our future so that, OK, the satisfied people may be able to continue along the current way that they're going.
But let's try to -- we know that the numbers can't be sustained. So let's fix where we can, preventive care, health care for children, investing in our future. Let's do it right so that we can continue to see those numbers, because I think we're not going to continue to do that.
CHETRY: Right. And Dr. Sanders, I want to ask...
KECKLEY: But let's be honest about that. The data says that preventive and chronic care management does pay a substantial return, but it's long term.
JOHNS: It is long term.
KECKLEY: And what we have is a forecast of spending at six percent plus per year over the next ten years that is simply not sustainable. So we have to find near-term ways to save money, in addition to long-term. It's not either/or, it's both.
CHETRY: Dr. Sanders, go ahead.
SANDERS: To go back to the point of what people want, I mean, people are afraid of the government telling them what they can and can't have in health care. But right now that we already have rationing, it's not done by the government. It's done by corporations that have to react to their -- and look out for their shareholders.
So, we already have one kind of rationing. The question is, should we have something that is more rational, a more rational form of rationing? Or, I hate to call it rationing, but a better way of distributing this limited resources. It's already being shaped by profit motives and things like that. Is there a better way to shape this care?
CHETRY: All right. We're going to have to leave it.
KECKLEY: I'm sorry, I just don't agree that that's a scenario of rationing. I think that's not accurate. The fact is that much of what we do is unnecessary.
SANDERS: Absolutely.
KECKLY: And some of that is a result of defensive medicine and clinicians put in a position where they can't do otherwise.
JOHNS: Yes.
KECKLEY: But we can take cost out of the system and improve care.
SANDERS: I agree.
CHETRY: All right. Well, it's a big challenge certainly, and that's why we really try to tackle it and bring you guys on and then talk about some of the real life consequences of all of this. I want to thank everybody for being here. Dr Lisa Sanders, Dr. Christina Johns and Paul Keckley, thanks so much.
SANDERS: Thank you.
CHETRY: We're going to take a quick break. It's 19 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Another shocking twist in the investigation into Michael Jackson's death. Police and DEA agents have raided a Houston clinic that's run by the singer's former doctor.
CHETRY: Yes. And that doctor's attorney confirming that indeed did happen. And it's looking more and more likely that criminal charges could be next. Our Ted Rowlands has the latest this morning from Los Angeles.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, after weeks of investigation, it is now clear there is a very real possibility that Michael Jackson's death could be ruled a homicide. And the doctor with him when he died seems to be front and center in this ongoing investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ROWLANDS (voice-over): Los Angeles police and agents from the DEA executing a search warrant at Dr. Conrad Murray's Houston clinic. Then, Murray's lawyers released a bombshell, a statement confirming that a potential case of manslaughter is being built against the doctor who was with Michael Jackson when he died.
The statement reads in part, "The search warrant authorized law enforcement to search for and seize items, including documents, they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter."
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is the first confirmation we've had, and it's from the doctor's own attorney, that there's a manslaughter investigation. We're not just talking about prescription medication and some negligence there. An actual homicide investigation, that's a big development.
ROWLANDS: According to Murray's lawyer, agents took a forensic image of a business computer, hard drive, and 21 documents during the search. Murray, who was being paid $150,000 a month to care for Jackson, has been at the center of what, until now, has been simply characterized as a death investigation. Murray's lawyers say they were surprised by the search, but they say they provided everything detectives have asked for.
In another statement released this week, Murray's lawyer said, "Based on Dr. Murray's minute by minute and item by item description of Michael Jackson's last days, he should not be a target of criminal charges. Dr. Murray was the last doctor standing when Michael Jackson died, and it seems all the fury is directed towards him."
Meanwhile, the coroner paid a visit to Los Angeles nutritionist Cherilyn Lee who says Jackson asked her for the powerful drug Diprivan. Lee said she turned over her file on Jackson.
CHERILYN LEE, NUTRITIONIST: I actually did lab work, and this is one reason why the coroner wanted all of my records.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Dr. Murray is tentatively scheduled to meet with investigators for a third time later this week. Meanwhile, the L.A. coroner is still working on that autopsy report. It's expected to be released as early as next week -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Ted Rowlands for us this morning. Ted, thanks.
CHETRY: And still ahead, we're going to be checking in with Carol Costello. She's going to be talking about the fact that this was five primetime news conferences in just six months in office. A lot we're hearing from the president, and she's going to talk about whether or not people are as interested in riveted as they once were. A lot of important issues being talking about but, you know, hey, must see TV.
ROBERTS: Yes. One network didn't tape it last night. Is that going to be the trend going forward? Fewer and fewer networks withholding (ph) -- taking these press conferences. We'll find out.
It's 24 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Some morning fog in Cleveland, coming to us from our affiliate WOIO this morning. There's some light rain. It's 66 there right now. And a little bit later, they're expecting some rain and thunder. A high of 73.
Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. You know, the president was all over television last night. You couldn't miss it even if you tried. Now, we all know health care is important, but are people still as riveted when the president speaks in prime time.
Our Carol Costello joins us now from Washington with a look at that one. Right? Because the first press conference he gave, 50 million people watched it at night.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, but the fourth one he gave, not so much. TV networks were slow to say yes to another primetime news conference and that is your hint the president's popularity is not a given, along with polls that show the same thing. Still, the president is using his still strong popularity to talk to you as often as possible, while critics say that is the wrong thing to do.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Can you say ubiquitous?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good evening.
COSTELLO: The pressers, the exclusives, the burgers, the dog, the kids, the date night and the mom jeans? Even some of the president's supporters say enough POTUS TV.
BILL MAHER, TALK SHOW HOST: You don't have to be on television every minute of everyday. You're the president, not a rerun of "Law and Order."
OBAMA: On health insurance reform...
COSTELLO: If you count Wednesday's appearance, President Obama has made remarks on health care nearly every day since June 13. Yet the latest CNN poll of polls shows only 47 percent approve of the way Mr. Obama is handling health care.
Some say that number is relatively low because the president is talking so much, he's diluting the message. Others say that number shows the Obama-thon is working, considering what the president is selling.
JON FRIEDMAN, MARKETWATCH: I think he's keeping people calm. He's reassuring people that he's in control. THEODORE LOWI, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: It's ridiculous to talk about being overexposed. He's underexposed and no matter how much he tries, he'll still be underexposed.
COSTELLO: Still, there are recent signs TV viewers are losing interest. The president's first primetime appearance drew 49.5 million, his second 52.4 million. His third attracted 40.4 million viewers. His fourth, 28.8 million.
MAHER: What he needs in his personality is a little George Bush.
COSTELLO: As in way less TV. President Bush did far fewer primetime speeches. Maher says President Obama ought to stop talking and work on coming up with a way to pay for health care reform.
MAHER: He needs to stop worrying about being loved and bring out that smug insufferable swagger that says, suck on it, America.
COSTELLO: And while this president is not exactly doing that, officials say Mr. Obama will be taking a more hands-on approach with members of Congress in the days and weeks to come regarding the health care debate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: That's right. The president plans work sessions with Congress to push health care reform. And today, he'll hit the road to rally public support for health care reform in Ohio and along with him, ABC's Terry Moran. He'll tape a day in the life of the president for "Nightline" -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. We'll see how many people watch it. Carol Costello for us this morning.
You can weigh in on this as well, CNN.com/amFIX. We love to hear from you.
ROBERTS: And we're coming up to 29 minutes after the hour. Checking out top stories now.
North Korea says it will not return to six-party talks over its nuclear program. It is firing back an insult that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying she is by no means intelligent. Pyongyang is upset after Clinton compared its nuclear tests to the actions of small children demanding attention. Clinton is also pushing for Asian nations to impose U.N. sanctions on North Korea.
CHETRY: Well, hundreds of people came together for a vigil in Hailey, Idaho, the hometown of Private First Class Bowe Bergdahl. The Pentagon says Bergdahl was kidnapped by the Taliban in Afghanistan June 30th. The hour-long vigil started at a coffee shop. It's where the soldier used to work.
ROBERTS: President Obama says the arrest of noted black scholar and Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. is a reminder that racism still haunts us. The president also added Cambridge police "acted stupidly" but admitted he might be bias since Gates is a friend.
The professor was arrested at his own house after a neighbor called in a possible burglary. Earlier on AMERICAN MORNING, we talked to the city's mayor and I asked if she thought race was an issue in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR E. DENISE SIMMONS, CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS: Yes, race is a factor. It's knowledge we all know that black and Latino, particularly men, have historically had problems with police. And so you cannot talk about this without talking about or doing it with race.
ROBERTS: Right. And do you believe that race was a factor in this particular case?
SIMMONS: I'm not going to make that judgment now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Professor Gates says his arrest is a clear case of racial profiling.
CHETRY: Back to our top story now. The president's push to get health care reform back on track, selling it to the country last night in a primetime news conference. Joining us now from RNC headquarters in Washington with the Republican perspective is former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Mr. Mayor, great to see you this morning. Thanks for being here.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Nice to see you.
CHETRY: Well, last night the president tried to make the case that the trillion dollar plan to overhaul healthcare is better than the cost of doing nothing. And I'm curious, how big of a priority to do you and other Republicans think that health care reform is right now?
GIULIANI: Healthcare reform is a major priority. One of the most important things we can do, which is why we have to do it right, and it shouldn't be rushed. And if the plan is such a good plan, as the president claims it is -- I don't believe it is -- but it can stand the test of time.
I don't understand the big rush to try to get it done. This is a very complicated thing. He is making claims about it that are hard to accept. I mean, hard to believe. I mean, it's not going to cost any money. Makes no sense that it would cost no money to cover 20 to 50 million people unless somehow, you know, the cost of medical procedures is going to go down to zero. He did not explain that with any kind of adequacy at all that anyone could really accept.
CHETRY: One of the things he talked about was that two-thirds of the costs would come from being able to reduce wastes in the healthcare field. And then the other third, and this is something he admitted for the first time last night, that he would be willing to raise taxes or put a surcharge on families and households making more than a million dollars. Do you think that's enough to pay for it?
GIULIANI: No, absolutely not. He's not going to reduce wastes by two-thirds. That's absurd. Healthcare has gone up by 10 percent a year, just about every year under every president. His administration has shown no ability to reduce cost. It has increased cost by three times in so many other areas.
And finally, he's not even accounting for the inflation that his tremendous spending he's done so far is going to cost. The cost of health care is going to go up over the next five to 10 years. When you add the trillions of dollars that he's spending, inflation alone is going to drive it up. So I mean, I think that's why, even his own Democrats, he's got so many Democrats that don't support this. He's not telling the American people really how it's going to operate. And I think they left the press conference last night with more questions than they had before.
CHETRY: The other interesting thing though is, this is something that confounded the country for decades. We don't really know exactly what to do, and as we see more and more people getting older, more and more people relying on Medicare and Medicaid, we're seeing these costs balloon. So what is the Republican plan, or what would be the first couple of things that you think we should do that would be helpful and would start reducing costs in the long term?
GIULIANI: Well, first of all, the Republicans aren't in power so it's hard to pass something when you have as few votes as the Republicans have. I'll tell you my plan, but I can't tell you the Republican plan. The plan that I believe would work is to deal with the tax impact and give people the same exemption for buying a health insurance privately that they get from an employer plan. And I think that would drive down the cost of insurance dramatically because you would also build in a health savings plan, which I think is a wonderful idea, which the president has taken off the table, and he's also taken tort reform off the table.
Tell me how are you going to drive down the cost of medical procedures and not drive down the cost of liability, the cost of judgments and claims. I ran a hospital system. The second largest public system in the world, the Health and Hospitals Corporation. And the reality is, with these claims, we used to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars in claims every year. And he's taking that off the table, I think because the trial lawyers have more influence than necessarily putting a good plan together.
CHETRY: One of the things that the president did talk about, and I know that something that a lot of people are saying is deal with the malpractice issue and try to come to some consensus of that. And as we know, we don't necessarily have all the details out of committee with Congress yet. But one of the things that the president said to fight against some of the charges like one made by RNC chair Michael Steel that this is socialism, is that it's not going to eliminate what people have now in terms of a private plan. Do you simply not believe that?
GIULIANI: Well, I wouldn't use the word socialism. I think this is a...
CHETRY: Well, Michael Steele said socialism. And you talk about saying...
GIULIANI: I would say...
CHETRY: It's nationalized health care. But at the same time...
GIULIANI: That's true.
CHETRY: ... the president says private insurance is still going to exist.
GIULIANI: Well, except in much diminished numbers. The largest insurance company in the country will be the one here in Washington, D.C. that is covering 40 or 50 million people. It will dominate the industry. This is like the takeover of General Motors, the takeover of banks, the takeover of financial institutions. The biggest player in healthcare dominating the market will be the government programs, this new insurance program of 40, 50 million people, and then Medicare and Medicaid, which of course is a government program.
So, you will have a very small tiny little private sector. So, he is going to basically import to the United States the Canadian system when absolutely nobody from the United States goes to Canada for healthcare. I mean, this makes no -- yes, we have a crisis, but you don't solve it incorrectly and you make it worse the way his stimulus package made the economy worse.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we can't get to all of that right now because I do want to get your take on this. The president last night talked about the arrest, he weighed in when asked about the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates. Here's what he said. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.
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CHETRY: He already went out there and said that the Cambridge police acted stupidly. The mayor of Cambridge was not willing to go that far when we had her on the show today. What's your reaction to the president's take on (INAUDIBLE)?
GIULIANI: Well, I wasn't there. I mean...
CHETRY: And to the president's...
GIULIANI: My background is in law enforcement, not politics. I wasn't there. And I learned a long time ago if you weren't there, probably you shouldn't have a judgment about it until you know all the facts. And I simply don't. I mean, these situations sometimes are the fault of the police, sometimes they're the fault of the person and the way they act with the police. Then there are sometimes two different versions of it. So, I wouldn't make a judgment about that.
CHETRY: Was that a mistake for the president then to come out and say that the Cambridge police acted stupidly?
GIULIANI: The president is a friend of the man arrested, so I think you give him a little scope there. If my friend got arrested, I would probably believe one version of it, which may very well be true. Or the other version could be true.
CHETRY: All right. It's great to talk to you this morning. Former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani, thanks for joining us.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Coming up next, we're going to hear the White House's take on all of this when the presidential adviser David Axelrod joins us. Thirty-seven minutes after the hour. Stay with us.
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ROBERTS: From the White House straight to your living room, President Obama hammered his critics and listed his reasons for health care reform in a prime time news conference. He's also linking the reform directly to the country's economy, saying if we don't fix the healthcare system it could bankrupt the nation. But would the president's plan really help fix both problems and can it be paid for?
Joining me now is the president's senior adviser David Axelrod. David, it's good to see you. How are you?
DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA'S SENIOR ADVISER: Good to see you.
ROBERTS: So, the president has said that he's not going to sign a bill that will add to the deficit, but we had this proclamation from Doug Elmendorf, the chief of the Congressional Budget Office last week, saying that the current proposals in Congress would add almost $240 billion to the deficit over the course of 10 years. So, what is there out there that he would be able to sign?
AXELROD: Well, first of all, as you know, these bills aren't finished. There are still two committees, one in the Senate and one in the House, working on it. And the president has said he won't sign a bill that adds a dime to the deficits in the short term or that doesn't bend the long-term curve on health care spending. And that's what all the conversation is all about.
ROBERTS: So, then the question becomes how do you pay for it? The president said last night that he might be amenable to this idea that Speaker Pelosi floated to put a tax surcharge on families earning more than a million dollars a year, but there are people who have questions as to whether or not that would raise enough money to pay for this.
AXELROD: Well, I think the -- what the president was saying that is that in principle he believes that those who can most afford to pitch in should bear the greatest burden. I think most people agree with that. But there are a variety of proposals. He made one himself, as you know, to cap deductions for the very wealthy at the same rate that middle class people can take their deductions. And there are others -- other ideas floating around. So you know, that is what we're thrashing out right now.
ROBERTS: So you suggest that taxing people over a million dollars might be appropriate. He also said last night that he might be open to this idea of taxing the employer paid health insurance which is thus far resisted. Any idea what the income threshold for that might be?
AXELROD: Well, I don't know. You know, I don't know that he endorsed that idea at all.
ROBERTS: No, I'm not saying he endorsed it. He said he might be open to it.
AXELROD: Well, I think what I think is fair to say is he wants to see what proposals come to him. He's been very skeptical about taxing health care benefits, particularly when it applies to middle class people who are struggling so mightily right now. But we'll see what comes our way.
One thing I want to point out, though, is that two-thirds of the cost of this program is going to be paid by reallocating money within the federal health care system that is currently being wasted and does nothing to improve patient care. And so, you know, what we're discussing is how to cover the remaining one-third to make sure that everybody has the security of knowing that they will never be without healthcare.
ROBERTS: So, cost is one of the two big concerns that people have with the healthcare proposals that are out there. The other is that would people eventually be forced into a government-sponsored program because private insurance companies won't be able to compete? What would the administration do? You've said repeatedly that people will be able to keep their healthcare. What will the administration, David, do to ensure that that, in fact, will be the case and that these private insurance companies will not lose business to a government-sponsored plan?
AXELROD: Well, John, I think this is a strong man that's been set up by the opponents of healthcare, health insurance reform. And the fact is that the public choice, the public option would be part of a basket of selections that people can make. It will not be subsidized any more than any other insurance policy would be under this plan. It will operate on the basis of the premiums it collects. And hopefully it will embrace the kinds of practices that will make it more efficient and make health care of a higher quality.
Right now, the insurance companies take a tremendous bite for administrative cost in their own profits. And this will encourage them to be a little bit more efficient about what they do. And that will help bring down the cost of healthcare generally, which is absolutely imperative. We're on an inexorable climb to disaster here. If we don't do something about healthcare costs that are growing, premiums 10 percent a year.
ROBERTS: Your critics also warn, David, that one of the ways that you might get costs under control is to limit service, to cut out certain things that are allowed now. Now they warn about a diminution of service when it comes to what's provided for. What will this administration do to ensure that there will be no diminution of service?
AXELROD: Well, look, I think that under the healthcare reform that the president is proposing, we want to enhance patient care, not -- not erode patient care, which is why the Nurses Association, the American Medical Association, have both endorsed this program. Right now, the insurance industry is rationing, the insurance industry is making doctors work fee for service, making volume rather than quality the core of health care. We want to change that and free doctors and nurses to do what they are trained to do, what they took an oath to do, and that is care for people in the best way they possibly can.
ROBERTS: Hey, David, one other unrelated issue. Yesterday we had a special inspector general of the TARP program, Neil Barofsky, on, and he was suggesting that there isn't a whole lot of dialogue going on between his office and the Treasury secretary. I talked to him about how much the two of them talked. This is what he told us yesterday.
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NEIL BAROFSKY, SPECIAL INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR TARP: Well, I speak to other people in Treasury. I don't speak much to the Treasury secretary at all.
ROBERTS: When was the last time you talked to him?
BAROFSKY: Late January.
ROBERTS: Wow. Shouldn't there be a little more of a dialogue there? I'm not blaming you. But shouldn't he be reaching out to you, to say, hey, Neil, what's going on with the money here, I saw your report, let's talk about this?
BAROFSKY: No, I suggested that we have periodic meetings to his chief of staff right when he came on board. I'm still waiting to hear back.
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ROBERTS: So, David, shouldn't there be a little more dialogue between the guy whose got his eye on what's happening with this TARP money and the guy who is in charge of the department?
AXELROD: Look, I think -- I spoke with... I saw that report and I spoke with Secretary Geithner and asked him about it myself. I mean, he is constantly receiving reports from the inspector general. His top aides are in dialogue. I understand that the inspector general would like to have a more direct contact with the secretary, but the secretary is getting the benefit of his work as he's also trying to save the American economy -
ROBERTS: Right.
AXELROD: ... stabilize our banking system and do all the things necessary to get the economy moving.
ROBERTS: Would you encourage a little more direct dialogue?
AXELROD: I think there's plenty of conversation back and forth between the administration of the Treasury Department and the inspector general.
ROBERTS: All right. So that's no? You don't think that there should be more direct dialogue between the two?
AXELROD: It is what I said. I think that there is direct dialogue. And I don't think that anybody should assume that if the chief of staff and the deputy secretary of Treasury are receiving reports on a regular basis from the inspector general and talking to him, that the Treasury Department is not acting on his concerns.
ROBERTS: All right. David Axelrod, it's good to talk to you this morning. Thanks for dropping by. I appreciate it.
AXELROD: Thanks for having me, John.
ROBERTS: What do you think about the president's health care speech? We want your view. Sound off at cnn.com/amfix and we just might put you on the air. It's coming up on 48 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Fifty minutes past the hour. Time to fast forward to the stories that will be making news later today. We're expecting more first quarter earnings reports to come in from some major companies. Results are expected from 3M, from AT&T, McDonald's. McDonald's profit actually expected to be up this year in its dollar menu economy, I guess, you could call it.
Well, summer vacation starts today for South Carolina Mark Sanford. He's expected to head out with his wife and kids for a two- week European vacation in an effort to "get some things right in the family." Now this after he admitted to skipping out on father's day weekend to be in Argentina with his then mistress.
Well, if you're in San Diego today and happen to see hundreds of zombies stalking the streets, don't panic. It's all part of an annual comic con festivities. Every year thousands of comic book and sci-fi fans descend on San Diego to dress up and nerd out for the festival. Although I'm sure they don't think they're nerding out, they probably think they're just having a blast.
Right? Rob Marciano, what's the weather going to be like there in San Diego? Probably perfect as usual.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: As usual. And as usual when you walk into the CNN Center at the early morning hours, there's quite a number of zombies, including moi.
CHETRY: I hear you.
MARCIANO: Rocking it. Hey, Kiran, listen, I've got another chance of rain across parts of the northeast today. Here's some of the rainfall totals yesterday, in through South Carolina, Indiana, and Ohio. We kind of have a squeeze play going anywhere from one and a half inches to four and a half inches of rainfall there. Check out what's happening here on the radar scope, an area of concern here and then a front here.
So, yes, we're squeezing it into the New York area and I think that'll happen around 6:00 or so. And the eastern part, eastern Long Island, Connecticut, eastern Mass, we'll see most of the rain anywhere from one to two inches, and we do have some flood watches that are posted for that area. Remaining cool today, 75 in New York, 69 degrees expected in Boston.
Another picture of the eclipse, I want to show this. This still shot taken over Okinawa, Japan, a squadron of air force F-15s just blocking out that eclipse. Cool, cool shot there.
And now, we've been talking also about how the eclipse has been doing some weird things to the animals. Well, these pictures now out of Tenafly, New Jersey, Bergen County, where this wild turkey, a four- footer, apparently terrorizing the neighborhood. Hillside Avenue here. Pecking at the mailman at the mail truck tires, chasing the mail carrier down the street at times and also provoking angst among the neighbors. They have not called animal control because apparently there hasn't been any physical harm to the neighbors there in Hillside. Nonetheless, that'll feed a lot of people. But it's one bird with an attitude over there. You don't want to mess with a Jersey turkey. That's for sure. I wouldn't come anywhere near it. Back up to New York.
CHETRY: You know the funny part, we're going to head to the control room right now and we're going to get an eyewitness report from Jamie because he lives there.
MARCIANO: He does?
CHETRY: Yes. The boss of our show. He barely made it in today, he was dodging wild turkeys, trying to get across the Lincoln Tunnel. A mess.
MARCIANO: Did I score any points for showing that video, Jamie? Come on. CHETRY: I'm sure you did. He said no.
MARCIANO: (INAUDIBLE) tomorrow.
ROBERTS: Enough about this turkey, I think, already.
MARCIANO: Turkey.
ROBERTS: It's a turkey, come on.
Well, if you're Arnold Schwarzenegger, how do you address the budget gap? Well, you start trimming, what do you start to trim? How about a two-foot long knife. We've got the Governator coming up.
That's not a knife, this is a knife. It's fifty-three and a half minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Well, as we know, California's not having an easy time of it when it comes to dealing with the budget crisis there. And it's turning into some serious territory, Arnold Schwarzenegger now promising that he has to slash a lot of things, make some very big cuts.
ROBERTS: And when you've got to make some big cuts, what do you use? In a video posted on twitter on Tuesday, he showed us just how dire the situation is by brandishing an extremely large hunting knife. There it is. Some Californians think the joke was a little insensitive, but the governor says, hey, lighten up.
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GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: You send a governor to Sacramento -- not El Stiffo like some in the past where -- but someone who is a little bit more entertaining and has a little bit more fun with the whole thing. Not have fun with the cuts, they sadden me, but fun with the job itself.
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ROBERTS: Of course, after seeing that clip of the governor with the knife, we were reminded of another knife.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nick, give him the --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's got a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knife. That's not a knife. That's a knife.
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ROBERTS: Crocodile Dundee with the knife.
CHETRY: I think they're exactly the same. I think this is a tighter shot. Just a little bit of those head bands in the '80s too and you have to carefully roll them and tie them around your head.
ROBERTS: That is the biggest pocket knife I've ever seen though, the one that Governor Schwarzenegger's got. It looks like a flip open pocket knife, doesn't? Of course, you know, if he's got it, it's going to be big, right? Fifty-seven minutes after the hour.
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